16 Years of being an expat in Australia and I don't think I can take it anymore.
Posted by kimtaehwa@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 137 comments
Idk where or who else to talk to about this so I'll just post it here.
I'm a 33 year old guy that came to Perth from Indonesia. I was here when I was 17 to start my university degree and am currently working in a very mediocre job. The sole reason I am still here is money, and even that is not great when looking at the median salary (plus I don't get yearly increase for whatever reason).
Since about 3 years ago, when I was having my holiday back to visit my parents in Indonesia, something snapped in me I think that tells me to go back to Indonesia. I just have this uneasy feeling ever since that tells me I am 'done' here. However, seeing how much lower Indonesia's income is compared to AUS, I resumed working here. I was hoping that something would happen that would signal me to go back to Indonesia (e.g., me getting fired). This waiting game turned out to be a bad idea as I am still here and just hating my life.
For probably the past 2 years I basically have been living my life like a bitter SOB. I started hating everything. I am very unproductive at work, I got angry really quick and even snap at my parents and sister whenever we converse. I get very impatient when I'm driving. I essentially had nothing to live for in my day to day life. Weekends/weekdays they meant nothing. I eventually even got lazy with my gym, everything just got a lot of worse and I hate myself a lot. Whenever I went to sleep I did not want to wake up, and I start having self-harming thoughts. I was also very lonely.
I tried to make friends here, by the way, but this place has to be one of the unfriendliest places on earth. I did have a lot of international friends when I was in uni, but most if not all of them went over east or went back to their country. I joined various local clubs (board gaming, volunteering, badminton) and made some friends, but these friends never felt like actual close friends. From what I notice, people in Australia are extremely individualistic by culture, and there is very little sense of togetherness compared to the people in Indonesia. Everything here feels very surface level because no one ever wants to open up. My closest friend literally tells me that she does not want to be near me when I just got back from my holidays from Indonesia as I was homesick and she does not want to know or deal with it. I was super disappointed to hear stuff like that, but it's not uncommon with the people I met here. They only want to be around you when you are fun and jolly, and want nothing to do with you when you're feeling down. I had a friend with terminal cancer here (she passed away, unfortunately), who told me that she would actually get ghosted by her friends after telling them about her condition. She said she wanted to cry when she saw my response, as I was basically trying to ask her about her condition and actually freaking cared for her. I don't know what is wrong with people here.
I just came back here to Perth a week ago from my annual holiday to Indonesia, and I was crying a lot because I do not want to be here. I had such a good time every time I went back home for holidays. The people are nice, and I made probably more friends back home within my 1 month holiday than I have been in my last 5 years of staying in Perth. I understand that this might just be the 'expat' and holiday effect that I'm experiencing (people will make time to see you when youre never around). But I just feel so much more connection to the people back home. I feel like I belong and not alone. I just feel like I'm actually alive.
I have finally set a hard deadline on myself. 1 more year here, and I will be gone. I will try getting more money for another year, and I will just go home no matter what. I will review this 6 months in and see if I will want to still continue. I'll try applying for jobs back home from here to see if I'd get anything. I will probably go home after 1 year even if I don't have a job lined up because I cannot stand it anymore. I can feel myself becoming a bitter zombie here. I'm scared of what will happen but I think it's probably for the best of me, it feels like a leap of faith for me. I keep asking myself if it's even worth it for another year, since I can just come back now.
Future_Literature335@reddit
Dude ... i would just go home now. For real. You are not happy and your reasons are legit for being so. Australia is tough in all the ways you mentioned and Perth is FUCKING HARD (my sister lives there; I have been there many times). People are surface level friendly but like you said it's hard to go deeper. Most people seem to just stay friends with their mates from high school and that's kind of ... it? I dunno. It's hard. I get it.
You sound like you already know it's time to leave. If it was me I would not wait another year. Just go home. Go where the happy is.
Plenty_Suspect_3446@reddit
I'd say NZ is similar.
The difference is Australians are friendly, but not polite.
Kiwis are polite, but not friendly.
But both countries are culturally insular and people are cliquey.
Future_Literature335@reddit
Haha yep nz is cliquey as fuck too, which is why I moved to the west coast of the USA 11 years ago ;)
simple_explorer1@reddit
Oh man, another kiwi lost to emigration. I agree with you though but so many kiwis (15% of entire NZ population at this point i.e 650k kiwis) leave NZ for Australia and who knows how many to other parts of the world.
How would you compare Americans to Australians? I find average American beer welcoming, chatty and friendly
Future_Literature335@reddit
I think Australians seem definitely much more down for a laugh, and seem MUCH more chilled-out, than Americans/American culture in general. I'm in a big city on the West Coast of America, and have spent quite a bit of time in New York City and Boston too, and overall it seems like Americans are driven by the desperate need to accumulate huge funds of money simply in order to survive possible future illness. It's fucking GRIM over here. Even before Covid/the current dude in the White House it was like this (although obviously more so now).
In my experience Australians seem much more connected to Nature/the real world, whereas Americans seem extremely insulated from the world and each other. I think it's the fact that Americans truly do LIVE in their cars?? (Not as in homeless, but like ... their ENTIRE WORLD is car based. They don't even get out of the car to get coffee, even CAFES are drive-thru here.) Everything is a parking lot and people are just sitting inside bigger and bigger cars and it truly isolates them from reality. I think they have forgotten their humanity to a disturbing degree over here and it is really saddening to see.
For all of these reasons I'm leaving the USA this year and coming back home to stay. There is so much that's good here and I will miss A LOT of things, but I just can't handle a country, or a people, that largely seems to hate Nature in favour of cars and roads. Plus the INSANE hyper-individualism: "me! me! Me! Nobody else is important but MEEEE!!!" ... like I get it, you can't afford to have principles or prize human connection here (literally can't afford it, you've gotta SEIZE the money where you can because what if you get cancer tomorrow, you'll be in medical debt in the millions even with the best insurance the country has to offer)
Anyway so yeah. I think Australia has SOME of the car culture America has but in NO WAY to the same extent. And I like the way Aussies are down for a laugh and don't take themselves so damn seriously all the time.
simple_explorer1@reddit
100%
They are fake friendly
gugabe@reddit
Yeah as an ex-Australian I feel like the trend for people not leaving their cities for University means that people tend to stick to their high school cliques quite hard compared to other places. Atleast that's my personal preferred explanation.
simple_explorer1@reddit
What do you mean ex Australian?
inquisitive_wombat_3@reddit
Yeah, I agree with you about Australians being unwilling/unable to open up. It's something cultural, I think. I sense they prefer to keep others at arm's length. They're emotionally distant and it can feel impossible to find a chink in their armour.
I'm British; I've lived in Australia for 20 years. I'm pondering going back. My situation is complicated, but the thought of another 20 years here doesn't bear thinking about.
I find it very difficult to really connect with people in Australia. Some I've known for years and we're still at the basic surface-level chatter stage, "the weather's been nice, hasn't it" etc etc. And they seem quite content with that.
In 20 years I have one friend here, a real friend with whom I can be myself and talk openly. The rest of the time, it's really all shallow nonsense. I find it deeply depressing.
simple_explorer1@reddit
Unfortunately UK (especially England) is also the same, hella lonely like Australia
inquisitive_wombat_3@reddit
Yeah, that's something I've pondered. It could be that I'm remembering the UK through a rose-tinted filter :(
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
Yeah it's awful. I gladly listen to my friend's problems (heavy ones too like husband cheating, thinking of divorce, etc) and they dont want to hear me talking about being homesick lol. I am at the stage where I'm about to tell these people how shit of a friend they are.
Professional_Egg8983@reddit
I lived in Perth for awhile, from the US. I had the opportunity to stay longer but Aus was so far from my family and they make it so difficult and stressful to immigrate, extend visas, or be hired for a decent job in my line of work, with what I have a degree in. I just got fed up during covid and made the very difficult decision to leave.
My uber driver to the airport said something simple that has always stuck with me…”you hit your limit, and that’s ok.”
Listen to your intuition. Australia is beautiful but so is Indonesia.
simple_explorer1@reddit
Looks like you didn't want to leave
Professional_Egg8983@reddit
I didn’t but it was so hard to stay and I just didn’t have it in me
woahtheremate_@reddit
I feel the exact same way. I’m in london. Have been here 26 years. It’s been nice in many ways and it’s a big city.. but I’ve felt like escaping for years as I’ve felt suffocated by similar. I have felt like I’m in internal prison many times not having REAL community. And people wanting to be around you ONLY when you are happy and doing well and can give them something. I don’t have anywhere to go to.. as inn estranged from family.. so the underlying feeling of isolation or lack of connection has a separate dimension for me…
I would say this - and I could be wrong - you sound extremely depressed. Even if momentarily. There are neural pathways and there is neuroscience that explains a lot of what you are describing emotionally. Arguably philosophy does too. So it makes so much sense.
You sound like you are living in an extremely “non human” and abnormal reality.
And your soul knows exactly what IS human, exactly what it needs and exactly how it will heal. And this is the silver lining I see in this - that you never lost your humanity or your soul. So much so you could give humanity to that lady that was dying.
WHO you are is (very clearly) Greater than WHERE you are.
Maybe the time you spent is not bad. You are going through the grieving stages. And that is human too and even this is deeply human and part of the process. Grieving what you imagined would be best and economically is best.
Grieving what you missed the whole time you have been there.
Grieving who you became.
Grieving having to go back knowing it’s best but knowing there will be economic problems you will need to solve. In many ways there is excitement in figuring it out. But it’s easy for someone external to say.
But I understand because I’m currently grieving leaving a room I’ve rented despite it being the worse thing because of the landlord abuse. And how much it’s made me feel lonely and exhausted and a lot of the fund’s you said. Though it’s an objectively beautiful place.
There is a lot to process. Multiple layers of grief. Lots of overwhelm. Lots of change.
Give yourself GRACE. Remember you are human. Try to refuse what environments like this force people like you to become.
I feel like an inhumanity or a sense of dehumanisation forces us and results in us to turn on ourselves. There’s nowhere for all this grief to go. That is why your soul is crying out for the normalcy of community.
I once heard stories about prisoners of war who died of loneliness and lack of community. To be a nerd for a moment — The World Health Organization (WHO) Commission on Social Connection released a global report revealing that 1 in 6 people worldwide is affected by loneliness, with significant impacts on health and well-being. Loneliness is linked to an estimated 100 deaths every hour - more than 871 000 deaths annually. Strong social connections can lead to better health and longer life, the report says.
When you have a society that exists unnaturally, vacuously and non communally - or someone who comes from the opposite and lives in that community - the effects are devastating.
Please give yourself grace. Please allow yourself to be human. Please allow yourself to grieve and process. Writing here is part of it.
I hope you gather the energy to move sooner rather than later. But if you don’t, when you do - I wish your soul the healing it deserves.
Side hack - in the meantime there are vitamins etc that can help the associated pathways. Omega 3 (1000mg), vitamin d although you’re likely getting it in the sunshine, St John’s Wort, 5HTP etc — all of which act as “natural anti depressants”. Maybe do an allergy and blood test also to see what you’re lacking in vitamin wise. This may not solve it all but our biology is also intrinsically linked so you may as well.
Please give yourself grace. Interrupt the self hate thoughts and remind yourself - hey man how you’re living isn’t normal so I get why you’re angry and despondent. Those moments are life changing in ways I can’t give word to.
I wish you well.
I’m here. We are here. Reddit is here.
Big love ❤️
simple_explorer1@reddit
London (and UK in general especially England) is extremely lonely just like Australia and NZ. Brits are reserved, very hard to befriend, don't mean what they say and the work culture in many places are toxic. Nah man. Australia, NZ and UK are different sides of the same coin.
To me Americans are the most welcoming and friendly people in the West. Even Canada felt significantly reserved and "Australia/UK like but with north American flavor"
woahtheremate_@reddit
In london, you need an effort.. and honestly it depends on communities you engage with.
To be entirely honest - diverse communities are The absolute warmest in london.
The English specifically have very reserved cultures, often pretend, have that fake smile thing I cannot stand, don’t mean what they say, never want to go “deep”, are uncomfortable with emotions and so friendships tend to be vacuous, don’t do much in the way of interesting things outside of pubs, clubs and football. Class is also incredibly pervasive which puts a barrier between people.
Each to their own and I can see they love it for the most part and it’s clearly cultural… but it doesn’t strike me or feel as deep real life and true community — especially in comparison to other diverse non - white British communities. Middle Eastern, south asian, Carribean, African, Turkish, Italian communities — I’ve found deep love, community, openness and belonging whether you’re from the community or not. As long as you come with the same energy.
You also see it in the ways the communities mesh in certain areas and when they tell you the histories of their communities. It’s cultural though and so they take it with them no matter where they are in the world.
The other thing is hobby - if you like dancing, climbing, the GYM, knitting, book clubs — you can find community there. Although since everyone loves to mask - you’d probably need a little more effort before you find your tribe.
I also found community by going to the same local cafes. The depths of each relationship are different but when I was going through a super rough time with people in my house at one point - at the very least, I could sit in a barber shop until 4am, sleep, joke, be given life advice, be encouraged and feel comfortable. Esp as I have no family.
I don’t know that I can say Americans as a whole are welcoming as I find them insular at times. That said - CULTURALLY, the “American personality” is far more extroverted than the “British personality”!
Haven’t been to Aus or NZ but would love to! I think their weather helps although maybe NZ isn’t as hot year round as Aus. I gotta check.
I’m so intrigued by people’s experiences honestly! Thanks for sharing!
simple_explorer1@reddit
No. Everyone goes to AU and NZ for weather but forget that country is defined by its locals and they are the majority of the population. Being around Australians was the loneliest experience of my life (just like in London) and Australian people are cliquey as hell, don't mean what they say, smug, fake and shallow interactions, othering, pretty much will never be friends (white anglo australians especially) and the culture is rotten just like UK white british culture you describe. Kiwis are more polite (and appear more down to earth) than Australians but everything else is the same and lonely and cliquey as hell. Australia is truly soulless and NZ as well. I still have nightmares of the insane loneliness and othering around Australians. Truly the problem with Australia is Australians (especially anglo white and surprisingly born and brought ethnic communities also tend to be just like anglo australians to a lot of extent). Not saying you or everyone won't like it, but i am over it and no longer see AU as desirable anymore.
I honestly think US (despite all its faults) in general is the best option of all especially if weather, chatty people, outgoing and welcoming people are a priority.
a 1000% agree. I cannot stand either. I also hate the classism aspect of the UK as well, truly stuck in time.
I agree with this as well. There is a reason ethnic communities often struggle to integrate in the UK and also AU/NZ (but not in US the same way), because the locals have no interest in them and to survive, they form a community to have meaning in life overall. US is different in that, integration is much easier because people overall are welcoming, classism/snobby doesn't exist (in general) and even as an immigrant people can become american and reach ultimate success which we don't see often (or at all) in AU/UK/NZ etc.
Honestly I am so over the hype of AU/NZ. I always used to think US is the worst place and politically it is bad but everyday life and people wise, geography wise, jobs wise, integration wise etc. it is the best place in the western world.
If I have to be in europe, my pick would be egalitarian places like Netherlands (significantly egalitarian than UK and Dutch are direct and don't beat around the bush like brits and aussies). Dutch are also significantly more down to earth and happier than grumpy english.
woahtheremate_@reddit
I literally felt NAUSEOUS reading about your AUS & NZ experience. I’m so sorry. I didn’t actually know. I had this idea that since it was the place everyone went for gap years, and the beach and sun were part of life, most people were super chill and friendly. But you’re talking the parts of UK culture I disdain on steroids?! Yeah no thanks. 😷
Actually now that you say it, someone invited me along to a church and though I’m not that religious - I thought hey, community. They seem cool anyway. It was full of folks from AUS & NZ. And it was a spiky, toxic place. I remember inviting a friend along. He was French & barely spoke English and was quite an introvert. Curious. Direct. He pulled me out midway through and said — “why is everything so curated and fake?” “Why are we pretending here when we know these people would look despicably at someone in need on the street”… I couldn’t answer because I knew what he meant… gosh that was over 20 years ago now! Memory unlocked!!!
I’m not interested in living in AUS or NZ thankfully. For many reasons but this has just amplified it.
Ironically - much as I do NOT like US politics at all, I’m VERY keen to move there asap. Figuring out how.
What you mentioned about the work is SO TRUE!! And is what really grinds my gears in the UK…
In the UK, classicism means invisible barriers you don’t even realise are there. No matter how hard you work or how qualified you are.
I also find that - perhaps due to classicism or culture - nobody wants you to “think big” or ‘think above their (very) set expectations’ or be “too confident” (and we are talking baseline confidence here - not the showman ‘seemingly’ arrogant kind). I find there is little creativity, little risk and little determination. There just seems to be this cap… And then there’s the gloom and the weather…
and at times an overt ordinariness or blandness I sometimes find funny. It’s kinda like - okay, you’ve got your little fake smile and sandwiches and pub with unspoken classist markers — is that it …? 😩☠️
What’s more frustrating - from what I’ve experienced is - the gloom and complaints and pontifications about the above issues with no real motivation to do anything about it. Love a meeting about a meeting about an issue discussing another issue we will write a report about and leave it as is.
Weather is great in summer and those communities like you said are amazing … but if a person want more…? I’m not sure it’s the place. Monzo dude had to move to the US to get it funded and he’s a white Brit!
I don’t know how I’ll deal with all the “we are the best country in the world and the only ones who do so and so” like I’ve often heard 😭 I find Europe on average far more cultured in a wider sense of the word. However, I’m still keen to move. And it’s no AUS.
It’s great to hear that there’s more integration .. as at times, watching the news and engaging on social media can make it look the complete opposite overall… intellectually you know but observing those two and you think oh goodness maybe not..? lol
Netherlands - AGREE on all fronts!!! Oh to meet straightforward people!
Super useful insights!
simple_explorer1@reddit
You have beautifully put in words the intricate experience of living in the UK much better than I did. I enjoyed reading it and echo your sentiment. I truly wish everything I wrote and you wrote wasn't true but unfortunately that is my lived experience and I have to agree with it.
There is a reason an average person with ideas infinitely have more chance to succeed in US than anywhere else in the west (especially anglo world), because they are more open to ideas and don't focus too much on WHO the person is and focus on possibilities. See this is what i was alluding to when i said America seems more accepting and friendly in general.
Ofcourse it doesn't mean one won't find fake people or shallow interaction with americans, but overall one is significantly more likely to have positive and warm interactions because that is what the culture overall is.
Sorry to hear that your "authentic" UK experience wasn't that great either. Atleast the silver lining is that the ethnic communities are approachable and give something to be happy about whilst in the UK.
Overall the warmth of the human connection, community feeling, comradery, empathetic, easy going, egalitarian, welcoming and approachable is what I personally value and bar the US i truly struggled to find those in abundance elsewhere in the angloworld and west in general.
Thanks for sharing your experience. was a fascinating read
Anj_Ja@reddit
Great info 👏 sorry to hear you're lonely in London. I'm a brit in Australia having a bit of a rough time. With all this fuel nonsense, I wouldn't be surprised if we all realise things were better in community, and many of us choose or are forced back into a simpler way of life. I've relocated multiple times and now realise the incredible difference that community makes.
woahtheremate_@reddit
Ahhh thank you 🙏
Gosh this brings such interesting perspective since you’ve relocated multiple times. I know I still can but I’d love to have done this. You must have the most interesting neural pathways!! Also - the realisation that - community is it? Hundred percent agree. The woo woo people are not so woo woo aye. The difference is really stark night and day between community and no community.
You just reminded me - watched this YT channel where this chap interviews older people about their biggest regrets and one that stuck out to me was someone who wished he’d had and built more community… and not been so coy about connecting with those who wanted to connect with him. It really got me. The loneliness was palpable. That’s stayed with me.
I’m sorry to hear you’re having a rough time in Aus. Would you say the experience mirrors OP’s a bit?
That’s a strong point that the fuel thing will nudge us into community.
I now wonder if it’s a shared lack or shared powerlessness that’s needed to remind folks about this human “necessity” of community in certain places.
Peacenow234@reddit
Thank you for sharing a lot of wisdom here 💕 i resonate with a lot of what you share. The grieving of what didn’t happen in particular. I want to read your post daily and contemplate it. May I reach out to you?
woahtheremate_@reddit
Hey sorry for my delay. I’m really glad it decimated. I’ve definitely felt it too! Sure feel free to reach out 🙏
retrosenescent@reddit
You spent a very long time in Australia (16 years!) and have no obligation to stay if you don't want to
It sounds like your main complaint is loneliness, which is fixable. If you had a great friend group, would you still want to leave?
simple_explorer1@reddit
The problem is Australians and you still have to work with them on office
unemployed_loserr@reddit
I’m a native perthian if that makes any sense and I 100% agree with you. It’s hard here in Perth and I’d also say the whole of Australia as well. I see Australians as cliquey and insular. I also feel this because I grew up lonely and kept myself almost all the time my only escape was the internet which exposed me to American culture, I feel more closer to Americans than Australians.
simple_explorer1@reddit
Yeah, Americans are significantly more welcoming
Dazzler808@reddit
I’m from the UK, been in Perth for 18 years and in truth I feel exactly the same way, only difference is my kids were born here and I do think it’s an excellent place for them. Sometimes you just know when it’s time to go back to your roots!
simple_explorer1@reddit
Yeah brits experience dodn't count though because Australia was founded by brits and the culture is similar. UK especially England is also extremely tough place to be an expat and hella lonely like Australia and NZ. They are all different sides of same coin
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
I am lucky that I don't have any kids yet, so I can just move whenever I want I guess. I cant imagine raising my kids here though, I really dislike the culture here. Hopefully you'll find some great things about Perth soon.
StillSpecial3643@reddit
Agree with all except it being an excellent place for kids.
SeanBourne@reddit
Australia is a TOUGH place to be as an expat… and that’s coming from a guy who is a) from adjacent cultures (Canada/US), and enjoys solitude.
If nothing else the sheer distance from home just weighs on you a few years in…. I can’t even imagine after 16 years. (I’m not unlikely to leave in the next couple of years - and I’ll have done half of that).
You’re doing the right thing by setting yourself a target deadline and (re-evaluating midstream) - no amount of money is feeling like “you don’t want to wake up”. I do think you should get a therapist (work will usually have some kind of employee assistance program that will pay for at least a few sessions to start with) in the meantime, as you shouldn’t have to just deal with it on your own.
Separately, if you feel that money is the sole issue keeping you in Australia, make a list of all the material costs you’d have in Indonesia, and come up with a ‘target amount’ you are looking to save. Make that target amount your ‘cap’ for your time in Australia (e.g. leave before that if you need for mental health reasons, but don’t stay any longer than that, as what would be the point of ‘more money’ if you already have everything you need.
If you want a bit of extra security, buy a basket of diversified dividend stocks and coupon paying bonds with that ‘target amount’. Never touch the principal, re-invest any extra from the dividends and coupons, and with your Indonesian salary, you should be quite well set over there and not even miss the higher Australian salaries.
RuneKnytling@reddit
To be fair, Australia isn’t that far from Indonesia at all. 5-7hr flight max.
simple_explorer1@reddit
If you take flight from Sydney, you are still in Australia after 5hrs. Comeon
cakenomcake@reddit
You deserve happiness❤️, go home for a bit, recharge and if you want to come back, come back. If not, stay in Indonesia. Remember you have a choice and try to be conscious of the invisible jail we put in ourselves in sometimes.
Apprehensive-Ad-6053@reddit
Go home dude. Making friends in other countries is difficult, particularly as you get older. And if you have turned into an angry SOB as you mentioned, that's not going to help your cause. Don't blame the culture. It would be the same in Indo for an outsider. It's 2 different worlds.
Accepting a lower salary for a healthier mental state is a good trade-off in my opinion. Sounds like money isn't buying you happiness at the moment. If it all falls apart and you're not happy at home you could always go back or try somewhere new. Perhaps it's not where you're living also, maybe there's something else driving these feelings you're feeling. A break at home might give you some clarity and new direction in life.
RuneKnytling@reddit
The lower salary would be brutal though. It’s like… $700 a month and that’s a great one. Probably lower work-life balance too since your boss owns you in Indonesia. Unless you go into something like sales or something more professional/business-like you may be on $700/month for a long time.
Sure, things are cheaper on the outset but eventually things pile up. Also, anything imported would be the same price as anywhere else if not priced more.
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
Yeah this has been whats holding me back here for a while. But I'm at the point where Im alone and miserable here, so might as well just jump and face the uncertainty. Otherwise I'll forever feel like this and will probably regret not ever making the jump.
fulbrightbabe26@reddit
This sounds like living in the US
RuneKnytling@reddit
really? I think in the US you’re more likely to find enemies which helps with loneliness
Plenty_Suspect_3446@reddit
There is no shame in going home.
OpeningElectrical296@reddit
Maybe shame will come from OP’s family?
kulukster@reddit
The indonesians I know who live abroad are often bombarded with pleas to come back home to be with the parents and family again. He could always say he came back to be with family, which is also true in this case.
RuneKnytling@reddit
While that’s true, it’s also a point of pride for the parents to send them off again, so it’s really more a plea to come visit
Plenty_Suspect_3446@reddit
It sounds like OP has a reasonably good relationship with his family.
OutrageousRegret1641@reddit
This. It doesn't matter if the job money is good if its costing you your mental health. You are still young. If you go back home now that doesn't mean you can't relocate and try a new place later. Wishing you peace.
McSwearWolf@reddit
Not an Expat situation but a few years ago, I moved from California to Florida to take care of my mom while she was ill with cancer, and I found FL to be very similar to the way you describe Perth: people were either aggressively kind of rude or just very insular. I expected Florida to be a pretty weird place and was not really intending to stay there super long-term, but even a few years there felt like such a drag; I fell into a very severe depression - and it sounds like that’s where you’re at.
So, I don’t know, but for ME - selling a (slightly hurricane damaged) home at a loss and moving back out west was the best choice, even though it cost us a lot financially and it was stressful planning/executing the move.
To me, there is no amount of money someone can pay me to live in a place where I feel unwelcome, unsafe, lonely, and stressed out!
Wishing you well with your journey from here! I hope you make it home
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
How was the work situation throughout all this? Did you wait until you land on a job before you move back west?
Job/income is the only thing that has been preventing me from going back home. I set a one year limit just so I can get as much money as I could before going back home in case I still could not get a job or something along those lines. Not sure if I can even last a year, it's already so heavy going through daily life on month 1.
McSwearWolf@reddit
Yes, there has to be a middle ground between saving money to move and just making the jump, right?
I’ll be honest: had some minor crypto investments at the time that were making me a little money, so that helped with the moving costs themselves, but other than that, I worked a remote job while in FL that was very grinding and became very ill myself at one point, so I was on unpaid leave when I actually moved, then I found a new job when I got back to the West Coast, but that actually fell through 2 weeks prior to starting because of grant cancellations (worked in education technology sector) so there was a time where the combined hit from selling a house at a loss and not having something else lined up was stressful af BUT - like I said before - even with all of that - even with having to sell the little home at a small loss - it was worth it.
like I’m not wealthy, still paying off some student debts too and will prob never own another home, haha, but for me, it’s not really worth any amount of money living in a place I absolutely can’t feel safe, welcome by others, at home, etc.
amazeballs2121@reddit
There is love at home…
Spiritual-Sea7674@reddit
No shame, go home! Better quality of life is worth less income IMO
Brave_Worldliness685@reddit
Can you find work online/remote and move back to indo? Sounds like the income is your only driver to remain there. Perth (& Australia) is horrid for making friends. Tall poppy syndrome, you’ll never be able to achieve a true sense of friendship. All those clicky friendship groups you see around you? Fake as hell. Half are sleeping with their best friends spouses.. seen it a lot.
I was SO much happier and felt included in the norther hemisphere, and I’m Aussie. I have given up on friendships in OZ and enjoy my own company. No time for watching nonsense unravel anyway, I can watch MAFS for a dose of what Australian “comradely” looks like.
StillSpecial3643@reddit
Perth is too cooked. This results in a paronia in keeping people at bay A very weird and didinterested place if ever there was one.
ahhwhoosh@reddit
This is really insightful.
I’ve been there few a few months as part of a budget travels when I was younger.
Considering emigrating there for work.
Sounds like maybe I shouldn’t?
Beneficial-Load3258@reddit
You should definitely go home, and reboot yr psyche if nothing else. Why be miserable if you believe it’s all about where you are. It’s not going to change even if you make more money.
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
Yeah my past years' fears of returning is the income. But Im finally at the point where the money isn't worth it anymore. I would legit not be happy if i get a promotion or something good career related like that. Id rather get a redundancy so I can just go home now
Lunkwill-fook@reddit
This post is your sign
Prize-Vegetable-4892@reddit
Follow your intuition and go home my friend
But if you do decide to stay gtfo of Perth lol
Hereandforward@reddit
I have spent over 30 years in a state where I don't fit in culturally or politically for a job and state pension system. I have made many friends but my heart and soul have never been at ease. I have experienced many of the same feelings that you have during this time- anger, resentment, lack of motivation and productivity. I retire next year and can't wait to move and heal.
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
The amount of cash I have rn is a bit tight for my liking (most of my assets are in stocks that are down), so 1 extra year just makes a lot of sense. Trust me I'd gtfo rn if I can but gut feeling says no.
woahtheremate_@reddit
god I feel this feeling right now.. I’ve been in this place for 26 years and fought with everything in me to get citizenship. I was homeless, destitute and suffered a lot. It’s also a big city. And the people are the same as described. I’m currently at rock bottom. Homeless and I feel like my life is a daze. I have wanted with everything in me to just get up and go somewhere and heal. But it’s not as easy as that with an estranged family and little money.
Healing was the word that stood out to me from what you said.. that and echoing it and echoing what he said pulled together..
I got so desperate I stumbled upon this thing called astrocartography and apparently it tells you where you’d thrive the most. It’s a whirlwind of a thing to understand. I’ve got no idea how it works but it’s at least comforting me to imagine some of the bodes or whatever it is they say is best for me.
I wish you healing. I really hope we find it.
I’m exhausted living like this…
Be well ❤️
lmneozoo@reddit
It will get better! I hope you're able to find the support you need
woahtheremate_@reddit
Thank you Beautiful Soul ☺️💜
Hereandforward@reddit
I am wishing you well and that things change for you soon.
1armman@reddit
There is that line between Expat and Foreign worker . The value and stress differ but there is a line.
Cojemos@reddit
Is it just a Perth thing vs Melbourne?
Life-Ad2094@reddit
i'm in melbourne but definitely feeling the same things so no haha
loveracity@reddit
As someone in Melbourne, no not just a Perth thing.
Vinchentus@reddit
What was your mayor in uni? Maybe you can go back home and get a good paying job? I can imagine studying and living abroad might give you some advantage over other people. Also aus wages might be higher but so as cost of living. I’d go back home for a couple years and if you end up regretting it, you can always go back
LWR_ss@reddit
Are there volunteer opportunities? Serving people who are needy or lonely could give a fresh outlook. A church may have ways to get involved, not to mention the comfort of turning to God.
AwkwardRent5758@reddit
Once, I was just few years younger than you. I was living in a very famous city in Europe and I had a gf from Rio de Janeiro, pure Carioca girl. Amazing woman. One day she said: next week I'm going home and never back. I jumped, forget our relationship which was still light and not to be considered serious, how could she do that? I said, but you have job here, you have friends, you have half of your family moved here, you have good money, you are pursuing your dream how can you just dump all this? And she replied: people here don't smile, I'd better be poor and smiling than living in a country we're people work work work and don't smile. If you are happy back home don't worry my friend, you have degree, speak good English, I'm sure have some savings then go back and make a life back home. Maybe you want be rich but you'll be smiling. The rest is not important.
Different-Fix-9791@reddit
I’m vested. Did you follow her to Brazil???
AwkwardRent5758@reddit
She did not ask, but we were deep but not so deep in the relationship. 😂
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the comments everyone. Definitely made me feel better and not feel like im such a wimp.
coffeemarkandinkblot@reddit
invest in ETFs...diversify you fund. Leave some for liquidity (quick access). Say $100000 (Plug your own number here). To test the waters, I would only take 20-30k out of that 100k. That 20-30k to invest should be diversified and not just in one category. Do ETFs, stock (I know you already have some), dividends, bonds, Treasury bills, etc. Allocate it. Since you have a ballpark at how much you invest at the beginning, you can see if you're making profit or not as time goes by.
Im in the same situation as you but Im not expat. Im citizen in the US from the Ph.
fancycakelover@reddit
Perhaps a different part of Australia? I've heard Melbourne has a more European feel to it
kilmister80@reddit
Yeah, I’ve heard that too,Melbourne just feels friendlier overall. Sydney isn’t great in that sense, to be honest.
LawofRa@reddit
Don't gain the world but lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold. ~ Bob Marley
Expensive_Session230@reddit
Sounds like you're burnt out. Someone suggested finding a job you can do remotely, good idea. Oh and stop the comparisons - Australia pay vs Indonesia. There are other countries, broaden where you're looking and you may be pleasantly surprised where to go.
Accurate_Mail_6838@reddit
I suggest moving
unegamine@reddit
Go home for awhile longer (can you work a remote job while there?) to see if you really want to move bacj, or try to find a job in another big city to try something new.
I say this as someone who has moved here from another Western country but South Asian upbringing and have been miserable as finding community and making mates here (at 37!) is so hard!
Not in a position to leave as of yet but you've put in enough time.
Also take a holiday somewhere outside of Indonesia to give you perspective. But if you really really miss home a lot, follow your heart!
Life is too short to be miserable
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
Appreciate the suggestions but I am kinda past the point of re exploring or starting over again, I know how hard it is and I dont think I have the mental capacity for one more round.
Infamous-Eagle2709@reddit
You need a community. Go towards what pulls you. As humans we have been told we need money and wealth but in reality it can feel pretty empty, especially without a sense of purpose or people to share the journey with. Good luck OP, hope you find your way back
Low_Stress_9180@reddit
Perth is boredom Central (one of the most boring cities in the world), no wonder you want to go back! Only natural. Just make money and go back.
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
Yeah 'bored to death' has never been so close to being literal.
Scary-Net4413@reddit
Man, I'd go back now. You only get one life. I'd worry about you staying there any longer, with everything you've said about how it's affecting you. And I'm sorry you have to choose between economic opportunity and your soul. Maybe you can work online. Good luck!
Working-Honeydew-877@reddit
So just to share; I am experiencing what you are, but in reverse. I live in a country that is like Perth. I moved to an Asian country for work for two years and was absolutely shattered to come home. I experienced such togetherness and I felt so welcome and included for the first time in my life and then had to come back to this class-oriented, clicky, hellscape. I feel like my friends in Asia care more about me than my actual family does, here. It’s each to their own and it’s horrible! So I’m trying to see what my options are to move there permanently because life is not worth living here. Sending hugs!!
Take your time to work on a plan and make it the best possible transition but don’t stay there please.
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
How was the pay there? That was my only concern really. If you got paid international rates that'd be the dream. I'm just glad that the whole loneliness thing isnt just in my head.
Working-Honeydew-877@reddit
Yeah it’s not just you 🙏 and yes I was paid in international rates because I was an expat which helped. But I’m thinking of going back at a much lower wage. I’d rather be poor and happy honestly.
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
What country was this out of curiosity?
Working-Honeydew-877@reddit
India..
bebok77@reddit
That's a long time. Been there ( Perth and expat),
I'm european and i had exactly the same experience than you in 2015. I did just stay 3 years and when I had to make a choice, i left. I had a few compatriotes that i met and we had the same experience than you.
I'm familiar with Indonesia and it's culture so i see also where you are coming from.
Money is not all and if your life is miserable, just move. There is no shame in it. Opportunities always come by.
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
I wish I can move back sooner but my assets are in stocks that are down rn and I need some steady income to wait until they come back up. I think I'd just keep reviewing like maybe every 3 months to see if i should just get out.
Infinite_Medicine262@reddit
I went to high school in Perth and my best friends there were from Indonesia and Hong Kong. We all hated it there - I left the day after I graduated high school and never went back! Sorry to hear you're struggling... sounds like you know what you need to do and good things will come from trusting yourself to make the move.
astraladventures@reddit
I work assisting chinese buy and sell their canadian real estate (amongst other services）, and the trend over the past decade went from 75% buying properties and 25% selling and moving to canada, to now 75-80% selling and moving back to china.
StoneOfTwilight@reddit
If you are unhappy here then go home? I don't mean that in a rude sense but it seems you've given it a good try and you've had enough?
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I was always very afraid of going home (financials). But now the pain is way too much to bear and so I am actually setting myself a hard target.
Bomboclaat_Babylon@reddit
With a degree and that much experience in Aus, you should be able find a senior job in an MNC in Indo for a good salary. Get you CV out there and start interviewing.
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
Yeah thanks for the recommendation, I've just started applying yesterday.
daniilkozin@reddit
I feel you completely. Australia pays okay but it’s crazy expensive and that cold, surface-level vibe can slowly kill your soul. Problems exist everywhere, but if home is where you feel alive, don’t wait another year. You’ve already done the hard part. Go when it feels right.
What’s your plan for work back home?
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
I've just started applying for jobs back home yesterday. If I didn't get anything by the time I feel like I'm done, I'll just do some day trading (been doing it for a while).
mxcnslr2021@reddit
Follow your heart not money, fren. No shame
EmploymentOk2028@reddit
Why don’t you get a remote job. Maybe one from Australia but you can do in Indonesia?
Like on call customer service support?
Foreign-Dependent-12@reddit
How about try a different part of Australia before you do decide to leave.
StillSpecial3643@reddit
Too expensive these days moving states , with the liklihood of limited change People are much the same in Australia, better off going to a country where the temprement is earmer and more open
Fortemuito@reddit
Do you think Australia being so car dependent makes it harder to make friends and be social?
ChristineCrazyFord@reddit
Not really - I am Australian but in my experience these attitudes are big city centric. Rural areas which are even more car dependent aren’t like this.
StillSpecial3643@reddit
My experience is rural can indeed be worse.Too much reliance on drugs for stimilation or to make profit and limited topics of conversation.
ChristineCrazyFord@reddit
Not my experience at all, but then again I’m only one person, and I live in only one town.
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
Cant speak for everyone but not really imo. In the circle of friends that I had, we dont mind driving our firends back and to wherever we are meeting up. These kind of things are also quite negotiable if you have a bigger group (hey can you drop this guy? oh sure Ill drop him because he's nearer to my house, etc). I mean as long as youre not living extremely far away it shouldn't be a problem. And people do take the bus here sometimes.
Quiet_Falcon2622@reddit
Nothing is more important than your physical and mental health. If that means going home, go home. Don’t wait a year to do it.
WhiteSnowYelloSun@reddit
Do you have an option to move to another part of Australia?
StillSpecial3643@reddit
Very hard in expense for probably only limited better outcomes Anyone who prefers a warm tempermant in people far better looking elsewhere.
lmneozoo@reddit
Frankly, you'll probably have a higher standard of living in Indonesia if you can land a solid job earning $2-3k than you do warning much more in Australia
Also if you have savings that will make it even easier for you back home
Plan your escape back! There's no shame
Fabulous-Gas1996@reddit
hi nice meeting you
alper66@reddit
Is there an Indonesian community in Australia? Maybe you can find friends there.
TicketPossible7808@reddit
Mate an idea is to get yourself into FIFO work. Lots of guys do different rosters and fly back and forth from south east Asia. Works best with a 2 week on two week off roster but do able with other rosters. Best of both worlds, just food for thought.
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
I did try this to go this way but wasnt able to get any FIFO jobs likely from lack of experience.
No-Tomatillo8601@reddit
From what you wrote it seems like you are already certain that being back in Indonesia makes you feel happiest! You must be hurting your soul by staying in Perth. As sad as it is to say, the situation you describe yourself in is very common. Go where you feel happy and peaceful.
vixenlion@reddit
Money isn’t everything.
Go back to Indonesia with your parents
winery_bound_expat@reddit
that "something snapped" feeling really resonates. i've been planning a move out of the US for a while now and i keep catching myself waiting for some kind of external permission to actually do it — a job change, a sign, whatever. reading your post is honestly a good reminder that the signal was already there and i just needed to stop ignoring it. hope you make the call soon, it sounds like you already know what the right one is
Africano_90@reddit
Sometimes there is nothing wrong with hitting the pause button and heading back home for a bit. It sounds like you need a bit of a reset. If you have PR or citizenship you have nothing to lose, especially if you are so unhappy in Aus. Save up some money, make sure to keep enough to by a flight back to Aus if you mind ever changes, and head back home.
Australia does have a very individualistic culture—I hear you there. While it is an amazing place to be, it can also be a very lonely place. I think all immigrants to this country feel this. I love Australia but I always think of home and what it would be like to be back there (I’m South African, been is Aus for about 10 years). I love it here but nothing feels like home.
Give yourself a break. Go home and be with family. Find out what you want from life. There is no wrong answer here, your happiness HAS to be part of the equation
I wish you all the best, look after yourself 🙏🏼
THExIMPLIKATION@reddit
I went through something very similar. I was born in New Orleans, but my family is from Nicaragua. We moved back to Nicaragua when I was 10, because my grandfather was getting older and my dad took over the cattle ranches. I went back to Louisiana when I was 20 for college and then work. In 2016 I lost everything in a flood and began to really think about going home. It was always just an idea, but I couldn't shake it. Once that idea was in my head though I began to dislike everything more and more. It got to the point where I was like you, just bitter and miserable, I set a firm date to move back to Nicaragua and when the date came, I moved. It's been a little over 3 years now and I do not regret a thing. I do miss The weed I was getting though in the US, but other than that I don't miss anything.
zyine@reddit
I can't help but wonder if things would be different for you if you had a romantic partner or spouse.
Both__@reddit
Listen to your body. Listen to your spirit. It’s high time you made your return home. 🏝️
U03clh9@reddit
My Scottish friend just moved out there. If you want a contact?
dallyan@reddit
I say go home BUT… go home with a plan. A Plan A and a Plan B. Meaning, have some sketches of an idea of what you can do there. If you just go with no plan you may find yourself frustrated when you also feel some depression there (the whole “wherever you go there you are” thing). I think if you have smtg to work towards there you’ll be happier. But don’t torture yourself staying in a place that makes you suicidal. Not everything in life is money.
HeatWhisper-@reddit
it sounds like you’ve been through a lot good for you for setting that deadline sometimes you just need to take the leap back to where you feel more at home.
YellowBook@reddit
Indonesia is beautiful and paradise for some people, speaking from the other side of the world, it sounds a no brainer to go back home. Living abroad can be hard for many reasons, but if it’s mainly a financial reason to be there and the financial reason isn’t materialising and your social and home life is hard, then you can fix most of that by going home (even temporarily, if needed, to restore your vitality). At the very least, you can reconnect with old friends and family and maybe providence has something in store that you can’t visualise just yet.
Substantial_Ebb_316@reddit
You’ll be happier at home home. No amount of money can compare to that.
Kiwiatx@reddit
You don’t have to justify moving anywhere. Maybe you feel you are letting your family down or something but you’re letting yourself down if you do t give yourself the chance to be happy. You’ve given it a really good shot, time to move on.
pencilbride2B@reddit
I think you should just go home, would you be able to return to Australia if you wanted? You been thinking about it so long that you should honestly go home and see how you feel. Are you able to go back to Indonesia for 2 months? Maybe going home for a long trip will give you a better idea.
ponpiriri@reddit
Your sign to go back home was the feeling you had years ago. You didn't need permission or have someone force your hand.
Creative_Height5159@reddit
How about Indonesian friends bro/sis? Aren't there many Indos in Perth?
kimtaehwa@reddit (OP)
I had a group of Indonesian friends around 10 years ago, but they all left to go back to Indo.
These Indonesian communities are in churches usually. I did try to go to a church hearing / bible study thing but just got a bit weirded out by how they were praying to me and stuff when I just got in there.