Is an Intel ES( Engineering Sample) CPU worthwhile?
Posted by ontariopiper@reddit | buildapc | View on Reddit | 19 comments
Hi all. I've been casually browsing eBay for a CPU for a new PC build and come across several Intel "ES" CPUs listed at what look like good prices.
Google tells me these are Engineering Samples, pre-release CPUs sent to motherboard manufacturers in order to make compatible boards. My search also came up with a warning about potential risks with using these CPUs with production boards.
Does anyone have any experience with ES CPUs? Should I go for it or avoid like the plague?
jonnyGURUgerow@reddit
I've used MANY ES CPUs and have never had an issue. Come to think of it, I think I'm on an ES CPU as I type this. :D
Elitefuture@reddit
What CPU specifically?
ontariopiper@reddit (OP)
I'm looking at a Core i9-12900KF ES at $127USD.
Cold-Inside1555@reddit
Do you have the letter code of the chip? Something like “Q1JS”
ontariopiper@reddit (OP)
QX7H
Cold-Inside1555@reddit
So for this model, it’s an 12900kf es with 4.0ghz default and overclockable, it will boot and be useable with no known stability issues with a normal z690/b660, by default the single core performance is similar to a 11th gen.
THE VERY IMPORTANT DOWNSIDE is that the CPU pcie lanes does not work unless paired with a ES chipset(not realistic to get one since they are rare and expensive) so your GPU etc have to be on the chipset lanes aka pcie x4. This will severely affect your GPU performance so I do not recommend gaming on it, if you use it as a server or other purpose where you only need cpu performance with a x4 card for display you are fine. Also note that a lot but not all of those are sold with a single memory channel(hole punched on the edge), which will limit memory performance.
If you want one with working pcie lanes get a QYEH.
Elitefuture@reddit
I've seen different qx7h cpus with different specs, it just seems like a gamble. Everything is iffy.
Like one is 1.2ghz - 3.4ghz, another is 1.2ghz - 4.4ghz, and you're seeing 4ghz on both.
The PCIE lanes being blocked seems consistent.
Cold-Inside1555@reddit
An extra note is that some claimed the newest bioses removed microcode for the 12th gen ES, can’t verify this but worth noting if you are on a new bios.
Elitefuture@reddit
I'm not OP, but yea, some discussions of this CPU specifically said that some require 1st gen boards and prerelease BIOS. Since some BIOS updates removed support early on due to it not being necessary for consumers.
Cold-Inside1555@reddit
Yeah frequency might vary, but the pcie part is definite.
Elitefuture@reddit
due to it being an old engineering sample for a first gen chip, you'll need an old motherboard with a prerelease bios. That'll be difficult to source.
The engineering sample also does not run at the same speeds as the 12900kf. It looks like 1.2ghz base and 3.2ghz-4.4ghz turbop depending on how old the chip is.
The one on ebay I can see is 1.2ghz base, 4.4ghz turbo.
It just seems like a gamble. Some things could be working, some things could be blocked or disabled, some things may work properly, some may not... You may need an old bios on an old board, etc. It's a lot of work and a lot of ifs to save some money for a slower version of the CPU.
Elitefuture@reddit
I'd avoid it: https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/10z9qmj/i912900_engineering_sample_and_shitty_b760m_for/
Looks like engineering samples now are actually engineering samples. Back then they were closer to being completed. Now, engineering samples are far away from being ready for the consumer.
Looks like people are having PCIE issues, gpu is performing worse, and you need a specific motherboard for it.
It's not worth saving the $80-$100. But tbh, a new 14600k is close to a used 12900k and there are sometimes really good sales for the 14600k. So I'd rather get the 14600k instead.
ontariopiper@reddit (OP)
Oof! Yep, that's a nope!
thepfy1@reddit
In the 90s ES chips were desirable as they generally had unlocked multipliers so better for overclocking.
Due to the fact you can get K or X chips with unlocked multipliers, they are not as attractive.
These days, the way the chips are designed with frequency boosting there isn't as much headroom for overclocking.
dalooooongway@reddit
don't do it
https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/bugxao/what_are_peoples_experiences_with_intel_es/
whatevers_clever@reddit
those commendts are on server CPUs and also.. 7 years ago.
For desktop CPUs, ES samples are usually perfectly fine. There is a risk, maybe \~10% of them have some issues.
I wouldn't get ES samples of 14900/13900 though.
ontariopiper@reddit (OP)
I'm looking at a Core i9-12900KF ES at $127USD.
whatevers_clever@reddit
Mmm never used any 12900 es so not sure on specifics I do think 11-14 is risky using ES tho
Cold-Inside1555@reddit
QS are fine, ES is generally to be avoided, there are a few ES models that work pretty well but you have to research for the specific letter code.