Modern TV Series - The Mystery Box Format...how does GenX feel about it
Posted by Ravenloff@reddit | GenX | View on Reddit | 100 comments
I've pretty much given up on contemporary sci-fi/horror/supernatural dramas because, honestly and regardless of actor quality or production value, I feel like they are a phenomenal waste of time.
The picture is from the horror drama From on Prime/MGM+. I watched the first season understandably intrigued by the premise, but had to force my way through season two because I could already plainly see the mystery box at work.
Put simply, Lost screwed us all, lol. A mystery box show is one with an overarching, soap opera-esque story with consistent characters and they're all dealing with some Big Unknown. The format gives you drips and drabs of info, but, as we have seen over and over, you get questions, build up, and very, very rarely any satisfactory pay-off--if you get ANY pay off at all.
Other examples of this from recent tv history: Outer Range, Night Sky, Counterparts. All have intriguing premises, but take forever to get nowhere.
I almost give Counterparts a pass because it WAS good, but got cancelled. The others...endless build-up without payoff and a whole lot of next to nothing in between.
Are we telling these shows to get off our lawn or am I in the minority and just letting something inconsequential anger up the blood?
-NachoBorracho-@reddit
Mystery box is trash writing. But 90% (or more) of tv & movie writing is trash these days, regardless of formula, style, or genre.
So either join me in my curmudgeon bubble, or turn your brain off like everyone else, I guess.
guitarsean@reddit
Depends on how long the show goes. My ex was obsessed with Lost. I'd see maybe one out of every 5 episodes and I never felt like I missed anything. Twin Peaks worked because didn't get dragged out for 6 seasons. Only two seasons with a total of 30 episodes can make the mystery box work. Babylon 5 and Breaking Bad worked for me because they had strong guiding hands at the controls. I gave up on the Walking Dead because it just felt like it was slogging from one disaster to the next with no actual plan for a conclusion. Flee danger, find a new home, shit goes wrong, flee, lather, rinse, repeat. WD also IMO went south when Frank Darbont left and they forced the seasons to be longer. 8-12 episodes is a nice window for tight storytelling.
hkusp45css@reddit
Honestly, if they kept Darbont, they probably could have told twice the story in half the time.
NVJAC@reddit
I think this is the key. You don't have to have every step plotted out (I seem to remember Vince Gilligan say they didn't know how they were going to resolve one season's cliffhanger until the writers all got back together to start on the next season), but you need to know what the destination is.
CityCabCat@reddit
Season 5?!?!? I have some catching up to do b
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
I think season four is either just starting or starting soon. This was an announcement that they are definitely getting another season.
kramwest1@reddit
1st episode of S4 this Sunday.
hkusp45css@reddit
Yup April 19th in the US
FortuneOpen5715@reddit
I never got into Lost but I really like From. I’m planning on waiting for season four to finish airing and I will subscribe to MGM+ and watch it from the beginning. I am just hoping the creators have learned their lesson from Lost.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Isn't still available through Prime? I ask that like not having Prime means you probably don't have running water either, lol...sorry
Reader47b@reddit
Also jumped ship on From after the second season. I was drawn in the first, but then I realized...this is going nowhere, write-as-you-go, don't care if you tie things together neatly. Yes, like Lost (which I watched to the end...)
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Yep. And I'm still a member of the From sub. I don't berate anyone at all but I do like to drop in a needle once in a while when someone brings up x and then tries to theorycraft it, only to say they don't know...then I'll respond with "neither do the writers" or something similarly snarky.
dembonezz@reddit
I dig it, but it's a double edged sword when creators don't have a destination in mind.
Lost found out that you can keep your audience in the dark, but you'd better damn well know where you're going if you want to keep folks engaged.
Thinking about From, I love the premise and I'm hooked on the mystery box aspect.
Despite epic performances from Shaun Majumder and Harrold Perrineau, some characters in this come off flat or worse. It's so off-putting, that I'd have given up on the show in season one if not for the unanswered mystery of the world they've built.
I'll be in it until the end with season 5 next year. I really hope it lands with more than an "it was all a dream".
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
The setup is excellent and kept me glued through two seasons, though by the end of 2, I was trudging because I knew where this was...or rather wasn't anytime soon...going.
Mammoth_Ad_483@reddit
Judging from the comments, I would never watch it, just like I would never watch Lost. You can introduce anything if you don't have to explain it or your it into the story. It's lazy writing IMO
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Others agree and it's on my list :)
pixelneer@reddit
All valid points are being made in this sub. However, one point I haven't seen mentioned is how the 'Mystery Box' format has ruined ALL television.
NOT EVERY SHOW is a 'Mystery Box'!
A perfect example is The Pitt. A true television masterwork, but if you go to The Pitt subreddit, there is an endless parade of the absolutely dumbest shit you can imagine. Noah Wylie has repeatedly come out and said that they are not making a 'mystery box' show; they are trying to make an accurate medical drama.
This doesn't stop people from posting endless idiotic theories trying to unwrap the mystery that doesn't exist.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Haven't watched it or anything about it yet, but I see it everywhere in our feeds. I'll check it out.
Also...it's pretty hard to mystery box comedy :) Though I'm still stuck in the 90's and 2000's with comedy outside of Sunny. I keep trying, but I'm just not finding much in the way of good, scripted, sit-com comedy of late. My brother keeps pumping up Modern Family, and we've tried, but damn. I think it peaked with 30 Rock, Parks & Rec, Brooklyn 99, etc. Plus we still regularly watch our OLD favorites like Seinfeld and 3rd Rock From The Sun. I would just really like to get reliably good NEW comedy.
NVJAC@reddit
Probably my favorite new comedies are the Jared Keeso duo of Letterkenny and Shoresy.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Yes to Letterkenny, although...I have to say, the blatanty scripted word association conversations in the later seasons started getting very annoying. When they looked like they were just coming up with stuff off the top of their heads...gold. But otherwise it's just the writers showing off.
pixelneer@reddit
I hear ya!! I can't sit through any of the new sitcoms.
Modern Family - agreed. It's not horrible...but.. it's not funny either.
I have Sunny, Seinfeld, Parks & Rec, and Rick & Morty that I rotate through rewatches.
I am typically not into medical dramas, wasn't a fan of ER, but The Pitt is something else. IMO, it's in a class with Breaking Bad, Mad Men, The Wire and of course The Sopranos. The best description I've seen: "ER was a medical DRAMA, The Pitt is a MEDICAL drama."
Oh, and it's a throwback to real TV shows. Each season is about 14-15 episodes. Each episode is one hour shift in the Emergency Department. Season 2 dropped within a year of Season 1, and they've made it clear they're keeping that schedule, again commenting on the ridiculous time between seasons of other shows.... looking at you 'For All Mankind'.. :(
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Good call bringing up Rick & Morty. I will absolutely admit that's a great show in a barren desert of other shows. Futurama actually surprised me too. There are some good episodes in the most recent.
pixelneer@reddit
FORGOT!!!
Letterkenny and Shoresy are also in my rewatch rotation!
slothboy@reddit
Just from your title I was going to come in and say Lost broke them for me. I see from the rest of the post you're on the same page.
A mystery box is fine if the writers actually know what's in the fucking mystery box. I know that seems obvious but 90% of the time they don't. Just like Lost, they are making it up as they go along.
When it works, it works great. If you can guide the audience through the clues so that when they find the answer it feels like a great reveal that they COULD have figured out on their own, then it's very satifying. But writing is hard and there aren't many good writers anymore so usually the box is full of wishes and bullshit.
Diocletion-Jones@reddit
I'm at the point where if there's a Mystery Box show or film series I'll wait until the last season and then read reviews to see if it's wrapped up well. Too many times shows like this either (a) get cancelled with none of the questions answered or (b) aren't wrapped up at all or (c) concluded badly with no pay off.
As a film example, the Star Wars sequels were mystery boxes and I've never seen The Rise of Skywalker because I know it falls into (c)
This means that I'm in the section of the audience that's actually not-your-audience because I won't watch it while it's being aired. My exception to this is if I have the confidence the show runner or film maker has a good track record. It's not really a Mystery Box show in the classic sense, but I'm happy to watch Plur1bus because it was created by Vince Gilligan who's track record is Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.
No-Captain2150@reddit
JJA is a hack.
NVJAC@reddit
I think of JJA as someone who's good with his own creations (Fringe is one of my all-time favorite shows) but has no idea how to handle somebody else's creation (Star Wars, Star Trek)
No-Captain2150@reddit
I think he's another example of people who do much better when they've got other people able to tell them "no."
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Yep, that's where I'm at.
TheVioletEmpire@reddit
I like From. I'm probably naïve thinking that it will have a satisfying conclusion.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Well they're spinning it as confirmation that they have a fifth season confirmed and it will let them tell the story they wanted to, but they would say the same thing if they really wanted seven seasons and got five.
TheVioletEmpire@reddit
Yeah, I don't disagree. I don't even remember most of the show at this point, aside from they're trapped in the town and people keep getting killed for doing stupid shit. But I'm entertained.
WarpedCore@reddit
Don't watch The Leftovers then.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
I heard about that.
WarpedCore@reddit
Top three television on my list. It plays the mystery out a bit differently. You might like it. Plus, it was perfectly casted.
klawansky@reddit
This show is fantastic. Highly recommend recommended.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
I ain't watching another minute until it's had it's finale.
Western-Calendar-352@reddit
https://www.geektown.co.uk/2026/04/15/from-renewed-for-fifth-and-final-season-ahead-of-season-4-premiere/
Literally just confirmed for renewal for a final season.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Hence the picture and the note next to it.
Western-Calendar-352@reddit
Ya got me. I read your post but not the teeny tiny text on the picture.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
So small... Hardly noticeable :)
Western-Calendar-352@reddit
And with a bad choice of font and contrast colour.
This is the GenX sub, you got to take into account our fading eyesight.
🤨
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
LOL truth
CynicalTelescope@reddit
Lost was definitely part of this trend, but if you want the real originator of the "leave teasers as you go along, amount to nothing at the end" story arc I think that's X-Files.
guitarsean@reddit
The X Files had an overarching lore thing, but they had a lot of 'monster of the week' episodes mixed in. Imagine if they'd tried nothing but the main arc.
Bokononfoma@reddit
I get what you're saying, but I consider Twin Peaks (and any David Lynch) not "Mystery Box". It's weird, and there are obscure characters/references, he doesn't spell everything out like a Netflix movie that has to repeat the plot over and over, but they all have specific intention. Those intentions may be apeshit, but it's not building up a mystery box. It's just probably too weird for you.
Also, don't confuse this as the same thing as a Mcguffin which is an intentional approach to a plot device. Think Alfred Hitchcock, or what Samuel L and Travolta were chasing in Pulp Fiction.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Someone did mention that and my response was that I remember it being more episodic than over-arcing but it's been a loooong time since I've watched, lol.
CynicalTelescope@reddit
Cancer Man was the embodiment of the mystery arc that ran through all of X-Files.
Lostintimeandspac@reddit
personally I have just given up on Hollywood. (I'll use movies, but series seem to have the same issues)
1 i go to escape the everyday bull poop (Hollywood is putting it into my escapism, so why would I pay to deal with the stuff I'm trying to escape for an hour or 2)
2 Story's seem to have gone down hill (im not an expert but when I go see a 2 hour movie and walking away going wtf was the point of that)
3 some of the tools they use in story telling just annoy the fork out of me ( lets bounce all over the time line of the story to confuse ppl so they don't notice the plot sucks)
yep I definitely feel like the old guy yelling at the clouds now.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
I don't mind 3 as much, but in small doses. For instance, the movie Cloud Atlas is one of the very few examples of a movie being better than the book...which was only a novel in the barest sense of the word, lol. But...the book didn't hop around like an ADHD kid without his meds. The movie did and it works, very well. It's also the only watchable Wachowski brothers movie since the original Matrix :)
Joyous-Volume-67@reddit
nah, watched the first season and maybe an ep or two of the second, and i was out
MrXero@reddit
Same. And it was enjoyable, but I absolutely agree that it felt like a half-answer to a question at best while adding in 2-3 more questions at the same time. So I tapped out.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Same. With the announcement that it's going to have a final season, I mght wait until it's completely released and then dive back in, but more likely I'll just go read the synopsis.
Ceorl_Lounge@reddit
I have yet to see one wrap up well. LOST, Westworld, etc. start brilliantly but the ending is terrible.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Season one of Westworld is just absolutely epic. And that's it. They girlbossed the hell out of that one.
moopet@reddit
I thought Night Sky got cancelled as well?
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Wouldn't surprise me. Unfortunately, I was already leaning into mystery box hate when Night Sky premiered, but given the cast, I decided to give it a go. Unfortunately, at least for me, it was just too plodding and too slow without enough reward for my patience. Great idea / bad execution.
moopet@reddit
For the first couple of episodes I loved the execution. The pace was great. Too many things these days try to cram too much into each episode imo.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Agreed, but by midway season two, I was grumbling about the mystery box thing. I think I was fresh off being burned by Outer Range.
666ForMySorrow@reddit
It was. I liked this. I also loved Counterpart. J.K. Simmons is apparently cursed.
brinehart-cincy@reddit
I couldn't even finish the first season of Twin Peaks, the original Mystery Box show.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
The original! I actually tried a couple years ago after the theme came up in a random instrumental spotify list that had some other soundtrack pieces in it. That made me want to give it another try from a (much) older perspective. Gave up after two episodes, but the memberberries were fun.
brinehart-cincy@reddit
Oh yeah! The music is great, and yeah, a lot of people still rave about the show, but... um. No thanks.
Taodragons@reddit
I never watched Lost. I definitely get what you mean though, it's even more frustrating knowing shit might get cancelled at any time. My reccomendation would be Servant on Apple TV. It's done, and after 5(?) seasons, it never answers a single fucking question lol
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Good tip. Let me reciprocate by suggesting Silo. It's not done, but I've read the source material and 1) they are tacking very close to it and 2) it's just a damned well-made show. Much less mystery box and much more the characters just having to deal with issue after issue. And an astonishingly good cast, front to back.
PartBanyanTree@reddit
Have watched the series and its been really good so far. Season 1 would zig instead of zag, Season 2 truely builds on the story and world - consequences happen. Maybe because it's built on a book series but it doesn't feel like its treading water like many shows. I loved too how sometimes they will take their time and also mine drama from unexpected places. Looking forward to season 3 very much
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
All true points. They are deviating A LITTLE from the books, but most of it is in there. They also fleshed out a couple of side characters more than the books did, but I'm fine with that because they didn't go overboard with it and it all fit into what the show is doing. No wasted people or minutes.
PartBanyanTree@reddit
I remember an amazing episode>! I think from season 2(?) where she's just trying to get across a broken bridge. and, in my memory anyway, its just like basically the entire episode. Trying to get across a bridge. the minor setbacks and victories, thinking through the problem, the major setbacks, the stakes. It's amazing. It's the kind of thing that is so execution dependant - like, its either a complete failure ("did they just spend a whole episode on a fucking bridge?!? nothing happened!") or you fucking nail it (which they did; I'm here espousing it's virtues!). The confidence to do that and mix it with everything else the show did well is a really special thing to find in a show!<
Taodragons@reddit
Great books / show. I was dubious about Rebecca Ferguson as Jules but she's great.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
We used to shy away from her stuff, but now we'll watch anything with her in it. Nailing Lady Jessica in Dune sealed the deal for me. Now...if we could just get rid of Zandaya...lol
Western-Calendar-352@reddit
Are we (GenX) not responsible for the whole mess in the first place?
X-Files, Lost, Fringe ….
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
X-Files was episodic though, and didn't get into the arching stories until later.
You heard they're rebooting, right? Because of course they are.
Western-Calendar-352@reddit
The alien conspiracy was introduced in the second episode of the first season. It was always a mixture of monster of the week and story arc episodes.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Hmm. I do remember the arc being there, but that it was still heavily self-contained one show to the next.
crit_boy@reddit
I disagree with Xfiles and fringe in this genre of nothing ever happens, drip, drip, watch for 5-8 hours before becomes interesting, etc.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
I also disagree with this because we weren't two-screening back then :) Contemporary dramas are written both for and by people that two-screen.
graciegirlsmom@reddit
Fringe is one of my all time faves
Musicman1972@reddit
I didn't actually watch Lost but remember thinking, even then, that no way is this going to resolve itself at the end.
Coworkers would come in and talk about the latest "question" the show posed and how it might be answered
When it finished I don't think I've seen those guys more annoyed!
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
This is how dumb I am, but I will at least partially explain myself. If I recall, this was right around the time the Battlestar Galactica reboot was coming out, which I was initially very much against, especially with the genderswapped Boomer and Starbuck (I was wrong, but I count that as my one case of being so on a genderswapped character, lol). When Lost was teased, I must have locked into a "this is a Land Of The Lost reboot" track because that's what I had in mind when I watched the first episode. And that first episode actually fell in line with my expectation. Episode two and after...not so much.
And it just occurred to me...neither I or anyone else has mentoined Heroes. Is that because it's not a mystery box (I think it is) or for some other reason?
Stare_Decisis@reddit
Mystery Box scripts are for a writing staff that simply cannot or will not produce even mediocre material.
A better name for Mystery Box writing is Ass Pull script design.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
It's worse than that. I think it is slowly becoming public knowledge, but I had a buddy in the industry (I used to be in radio and met a lot of tv/movie guys) who told me back before Covid that the trend in writing dramas for TV was to take into account that people are two-screening. They're only half-paying attention. So things get restated constantly and you only have something pop about once every ten minutes.
Stare_Decisis@reddit
What is truly frustrating with Mystery Box writing, for me as a member of the audience, is that they are all made up of three minute scenes from other TV shows. You can tell it's a mystery box show when you can actively recall whole scenes from other TV shows. It's like the writers simply took clips from other shows and stitched them together in three minute scenes and used action sequences from car commercials to bind them together.
Eventually someone is going to create an AI TV producer that will fire the entire writing staff and start stitching together TV shows from the black and white era till today with fake actors and scenes. We will end up watching a police procedural with the Rockford Files, The Andy Griffin Show, Chips, Cagny and Lacy, and CSI but it's all doctored and edited with AI.
TV is already repetitive and unoriginal, I don't need AI and shitty Mystery Box writing making it cheaper and unintelligible.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
That absolutely exists. The level of talent in writing rooms is at an all time low and the longer it goes on, the harder it will be to correct course because you'll then have incompentence with experience :) They started purging the talented older writers about ten years ago. What I'm surprised about is given the shambolic nature of Hollywood right now, with so many people out of jobs, those former writers aren't being returned to work. Maybe they are being sought and just saying FU to the studios because they've either moved on to other things or simply don't want to get burned again...or would rather not reboard the Titanic :)
moopet@reddit
No that's been a thing for decades. See all those shows where they have 18 hours of footage but screen 10 minutes of content stretched over 45 minutes of screen time with 15 minutes of ads.
This is how most channels made stuff since about 2000:
Cold open -> Intro theme -> Coming up on... -> ad break -> recap of cold open -> 2 minutes content -> coming up next after the break -> ad break -> recap -> ad for a different show disguised as content -> coming up after the break -> ad break -> recap -> extended version of cold open -> credits.
daltontf1212@reddit
Dark on Netflix > LOST.
DumbScotus@reddit
Dark is the ultimate example of this kind of show sticking the landing. The Mary Lou Retton of mystery box shows.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Is that the Norwegian one?
DumbScotus@reddit
German. But on American Netflix with an uncommonly good dub.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
I do remember the trailer and grew up in Germany (Kaiserslautern) so I'm not sure why I thought it was Norwegian :) I will definitely give this another look.
FallenValkyrja@reddit
My biggest complaint is that many require a number of seasons to tell a story, but those seasons are not guaranteed. Loved the first season of Night Sky and it was not able to be completed. Counterpart kicked ass and... same. At least From looks like it will get an actual ending. Now how good it is depends upon the writing, but I enjoyed the first season of the show (watched via Prime, other seasons require MGM+ or subscription.
DumbScotus@reddit
I mean, I thought Counterpart ended on a fairly satisfying conclusion to the story. Would I have liked to see more? Yeah. But I was still pretty happy with it as a two-part closed book. Imagine we got a third season and it was like the last two seasons of Lost? Barf.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Counterparts left a bunch of strings hanging, but that was due to them being cancelled, not because it wasn't handled well. Honestly, I loved that show and everyone in it. It's one of the few examples I can point to in recent years and admit that I was legitimately disappointed it got cancelled.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
That's exactly my point. These aren't complete, encapsulated, structured stories. They are moneybags that they want to string out as long as possible.
ShyChiBaby@reddit
I pretty much given up on all television mostly I watch YouTube.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
This.
Let me suggest a good friend of mine's channel. Neural Viz. He's a single creator that got into the AI video thing huge and early. And he's not only a master at it, but he's got an incredibly good sense of humor and sense of world-building. This is a stand-alone/one-off, but it's his most recent upload. For the rest, start with Unexplained Oddities Episode One: Humans. "Are they real or just a younglings fairy tale?" - https://youtu.be/YGyvLlPad8Q?si=YRwXH3GqMbhWOwxb
This is the most recent upload: https://youtu.be/QUCO6MUOpiA?si=_6zqXgf0GymMzA67
MysteriousApple135@reddit
I really like this show. Can't wait for season 4 next week. Most of what you said is true, but I've learned to stop looking for an explanation to every little thing. They have confirmed that season 5 will be the final season. As long as they give a satisfactory answer as to what the major mysteries are, I'll be cool with it.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
Exactly and I'm glad to see it because I definitely got the impression that even the writers didn't kinow what they were going to do with all of these various threads because they didn't know how long they were going to have. Now that they have a final season, maybe it will tie together nicely.
That being said, this could easily be Hollywood-style spin. They actually don't know how they were going to wrap up, or had plans that would have taken another couple seasons, but the studio said nope...five and done. That's cycnical but it wouldnt' be the first time.
Regardless, I'm going to wait until it's all done and then binge it.
CynfullyDelicious@reddit
Hard pass. Nothing in this genre will ever top Orphan Black, and even that got ridiculous in the final two seasons.
Ravenloff@reddit (OP)
The thing that really stings is, of course, Game of Thrones. Season eight was the ultimate letdown. As much as and as many people across all age groups were massively invested in that show (I worked in an office of 30 in which I was the second oldest and everyone was constantly talking about it watercooler-style), I've never talked to anyone that liked how they wrapped any of the plot strings up.
graciegirlsmom@reddit
I definitely liked the first couple seasons more than the 3rd... hopefully 4th will be be good... haven't watched much TV recently, everything has gotten stale... been more into audiobooks lately