Sanding away old epoxy paint is uh….
Posted by Gahouf@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 67 comments
… not fun.
Posted by Gahouf@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 67 comments
… not fun.
SubstantialAbility17@reddit
Hope you have a few weeks to do it
petron5000@reddit
Just did it. Not fun
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
Is it at least worth it? Please tell me it’s worth it, I’m in too deep to quit and need some validation.
jawisi@reddit
Absolutely. I did it five years ago. It was crippling painful, but if done correctly it will be worth it in the end. I sanded to gelcoat (removed ALLLL of the old paint), applied InterProtect barrier coat, and then went with an Interlux ablative. It’s been great. Glad I suffered through it.
FailDad@reddit
How do you know when you get to the gel coat? Mine has layers and layers of this jd select stuff on it, looking like the surface of the moon.
SenjorTortsy@reddit
You absolutely should not "get to gelcoat" as it should have been sanded away before repainting before. Gelcoat is not a paintable adhesion surface but rather the factory-surface. In a first paintjob, gelcoat is ALWAYS the top-most layer.
When repainting the first time, all the paint should be sanded to bare fiberglass (or whatever else the boat might be made of like steel or alu in some cases) THEN primer-painted (epoxy primer, ofc), faired, and only then the top color painted. And no, no "gelcoat" on top of that.
When repainting over previous repaints, provided that an epoxy base was used before (and is sticking well), you just need to sand the paint surface to a matte-finish and then roughen it up with like 60-grit sandpaper BEFORE painting with the new epoxy paint.
So if you feel that the previous epoxy paint isn't sticking properly anymore, the only option is to sand back to bare fiberglass and start over. And after a repaint, no gelcoat should be even tried to be used! Only antifouling (below the waterline) if that is allowed in your area.
FailDad@reddit
Oh right on! Thanks for that info!
Comprehensive_End962@reddit
I would like to know too, maybe the color?
petron5000@reddit
Are there any chemicals that you could use to help loosen up the epoxy Coat? That might help.
SenjorTortsy@reddit
Epoxy, by design, will not loosen with solvents etc. It is a stable chemical (plastic) structure (as is with all other 2K paints too, IIRC). Only 1K paints (like traditional topcoats) can be loosened with chemicals.
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
I haven’t found anything that’s both available here, legal to use in my marina, and capable of effectively removing 2-component paints, unfortunately. It’s me and my sander, it seems…
Huckleberry181@reddit
Get an angle grinder? One of those with a wire wheel or flap disk will work much faster than a sander, then go over it after with a sander to smooth it out more.
psychedelicdonky@reddit
Im guessing there is a dust regulation hence the vacuum cleaner
MollyG418@reddit
Lucky your marina lets you do your own sanding. The one where we pulled out last time is on a Superfund site so they make you pay to use their guy even if you've got all the same containment equipment.
Raneynickelfire@reddit
No.
Dave_A480@reddit
You have to be careful with composite boats and paint removers powerful enough to eat epoxy paint.....
The issue being that most of the stuff that strong will also damage fiberglass/gelcoat as well....
Westar-35@reddit
No, not effectively enough any way. Especially not effective and also not the most horrifically toxic material you can imagine.
Terrible_Stay_1923@reddit
That rig is for finish sanding drywall. You need a 8 inch orbital something like the astro 3008, only dustless. Sandpaper will be more.
I last used a 8 inch soft pad on a grinder, but not dustless and this setup is an opportunity for disaster if one is not accustome to it
customizer171@reddit
Just curious, why do you want to remove the epoxy paint?
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
It’s poorly applied and has started to chip and come off in large chunks
customizer171@reddit
Okay, I understand.
No-Sail-6510@reddit
Looks like a cool boat
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
Thanks! She is, I like her a lot - which is why I’m doing this I guess :D
No-Sail-6510@reddit
What is it?
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
It’s an IF-boat, Swedish design from the great fibreglass boat boom of the 70s. She turns 50 this year!
Boring_Line_6947@reddit
I was going to say a SABRE. Same time frame fiberglass boat boom. Even a similar design. The keel on the SABRE I think is smaller bow to stern. Looking at it more closely.
crazyswedishguy@reddit
Lovely boats. I have fond memories of squadron cruise/sailing camp with 6-7 of these and 3-4 youth + a counselor on each boat… yes, it was very tight with 5 on board (I believe one person had to sleep on the sole).
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
Ive thought about getting some kind of roll-up bed bottom to put up over the sole for when my kids get a little older and might want to take some friends along. Cramped but cozy!
No-Sail-6510@reddit
Oh cool. I thought it was an album Vega or something.
Correct-Brother1776@reddit
I used the large Makita grinder with a 10 inch soft pad with 36 grit to start and 80 grit to finish. When you get the hang of it the grinder hold itself up and you end up just guiding it most of the time.
JONO202@reddit
RIP Shoulders and hands.
Sondemon@reddit
Whereabouts are you? Kindof looks like my marina in Täby, if you wanna do another IF ;)
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
Haha, I think I’ll pass :D I’m in Gothenburg
Astaced@reddit
I thought that looked like Grefab =D
Axiomaticgent@reddit
Make sure you're masked up. You don't want any of that dust (or generally any sanding) in your lungs.
Did this recently too, thankfully not all the way back just enough to key and get a few new coats on.
Thoughts and prayers.
Moondance_sailor@reddit
If you’re feeling like you have the precision to do a grinder with a flapper wheel will take about 1/4 inch of epoxy paint off in a few seconds. Used to use those to strip down to bare metal when I worked commercial.
Veggdyret@reddit
I'm completely new to this. What is the purpose and why not just sand and paint over?
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
Old epoxy paint isn’t properly applied, so it chips and large flakes keep coming off. I don’t want my bottom to look like the moon’s surface.
ocrohnahan@reddit
Every boat yard has a due living on his boat looking for work like this.
ConfidentDimension56@reddit
Just put three layers of it on my hull. Took me three weeks to get the old stuff off... wasn't fun.
Plastic_Table_8232@reddit
Your sanding setup has a direct impact on how difficult this task is.
I use Mirka sander, he’s vac, and mesh paper. 36 / 40 grit. The combination doesn’t load up, is low fatigue, and you save money on abrasives.
With that setup you need to remove the dust from the surface from time to time because leaving it on will cause the part to load up. Also, wear jeans your don’t care about and run the sander over your leg to remove the dust from the paper. If you see pig tails in the surface your loading the paper up and destroying its effectiveness. This is what makes the mesh so powerful, it doesn’t load up.
Is it possible that the black stuff is coal tar residue from an old bottom job?
As another poster mentioned a 7” sander grinder (rotary) with a soft backing pad can be a great tool for quick stick removal if you have the skills to keep the surface even and don’t have access to better equipment like I listed above.
Cheap sand paper is not good, you’ll end up spending more than you would on a high grade industrial product over the job and have more time / wear and tear on the body.
In old office chair with adjustable height arm rests is a life saver for this type of work. I also have a milk crate for lower sections. The chairs nice because you can lean back instead of squatting down working overhead in a tuff position and often times get the arm rests in a position where your can support your arms while sanding.
I do believe the osha standard is something like 15 minutes off for ever 15 sanding as a vague rule but the Mirka has Bluetooth connect that measures vibration exposure times and you can sand longer.
I never paid attention to it and just pushed through it and now have severe issues with tendonitis and nerve issues in my arms and hands. It was not worth it. As a hobbiest I don’t know it will hit you that hard but doing boat / bodyshop work for years as a sideline has taken its toll. I wish I could go back and buy the Mirka 15 years ago so I still had feeling in my fingers and no pain in my arms.
I would go back and do a lot of things different I guess. It was also mind over matter and pushing through pain. Well now I can’t push through the pain and need help with a lot of task I used to do without worry.
Neptune7924@reddit
It won’t work with the vacuum, but you could put a sanding pad on a polisher. A larger pad might cover more ground. Hope the beers are cold…
Plastic_Table_8232@reddit
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted but a skilled guy with a single action sander / grinder with bonded abrasive can remove a lot of material quickly. It does take skill.
Hereiamhereibe2@reddit
What grit are you using? Looks like 180 or 220 hard to tell but i’d hit it with 40 or 80 to get the bulk off then a pass with ~200.
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
I’m using 80, going to get some 40 too for the initial pass.
Hereiamhereibe2@reddit
It will be night and day. Also switch the pad as soon as it starts to feel dull. Good luck man, doing this solo is the real pain.
Lycent243@reddit
Using the correct grit and keeping it "sharp" is the best possible answer to all sanding. I will gladly use 2x or 3x sanding discs to get a faster, better final product. And the truth is, the final product is faster AND better.
Hereiamhereibe2@reddit
Oh man I can’t tell you how many times I catch the guys at my shop sanding with what is essentially charred paper and wondering why it’s taking so long to sand something.
Lycent243@reddit
Yeah, I used to work in a couple woodshops long ago. At one, they loved to use as few sanding discs as possible (and avoid sharpening blades, bits, and knives as long as possible). At the other, we changed sandpaper frequently (and sharpened blades, bits, and knives before they were dull, including regular honing between sharpens). It is shocking the difference in speed and quality.
I've seen people sanding with a gummed up and polished disc that is clearly doing nothing other more than sliding your hand across the wood. I knew a guy that SWORE that he got better results by using two RO sanders against each other to smooth out the grit a little. For crying out loud, just buy and use the correct grit and replace when it starts to feel not very new.
Raneynickelfire@reddit
Rent a media blaster. Seriously. Rent a media blaster.
Stop sanding your arms off.
No-Research4358@reddit
I would suggest using a mesh instead of sandpaper. It helps with vaccuming.
SweetSeaCaramel@reddit
Metalic mesh? Does that exist standard?
No-Research4358@reddit
I am in EU and it's available in any hardware store here (although I buy them in bulk online). Its commonly used for sanding drywall finishing layer. Here is a quick Amazon search: https://www.amazon.com/mesh-sandpaper/s?k=mesh+sandpaper
TravelingSailor-@reddit
I did this last year. First, it’s worth it. My bottom looks great. Second, I’d recommend against 40 grit. I found that using a finer grit and changing the paper most often was the best way. I used 120 for most of mine. Basically the finer grit had more surface area against the boat. But if you have the black gunky stuff that might not work because it will get stuck in the paper.
5knShitbox@reddit
How about using an angle grinder with a sandpaper disc?
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
I’ve thought about it but there’s so many weird angles I’m afraid of going through the gelcoat
ppitm@reddit
Could be worse. At least it's not antifouling.
Mehfisto666@reddit
Wouldn't it work to use a sandblaster?
greatlakesailors@reddit
It might, but sandblasters have other issues.... in a lot of places you are required by regulations to use a vacuum sander so as not to blast paint waste all over the environment. Sandblaster containment is possible but not easy.
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
Banned by my marina, and generally all around banned here unless done by professionals and they're prohibitively expensive (like more than the entire boat cost type of expensive) unfortunately.
AM81inMA@reddit
It’s the most wonderful time of the year….
Fantastic-Hamster-21@reddit
I feel for you. I only sanded the old antifoul smooth and gave it a new coat. I can only imagine going after the epoxy.
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
It’s started coming off in large chunks, essentially baring my gelcoat underneath and resulting in a bottom that closely resembles the moon’s surface.
I guess the silver lining is at least now I’ll know the bottom is non-toxic :)
TheB1gBang@reddit
How did you remove antifouling paint before primer/epoxy paint removal?
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
The little orange thing in front of my vacuum is a ”pro scraper”, basically a scraper with a vacuum attachment. Tedious but fairly effective and much faster than the god damn epoxy.
TheB1gBang@reddit
I have the same mountain ahead of me with my boat (which thankfully is smaller than yours). I also got pro scraper! Doesn’t the scraper work on primer?
Gahouf@reddit (OP)
It does on the parts that have started flaking, but scraping on the surfaces where it’s solid is a slog, sanding is probably a little slower but I can keep going a lot longer.