Europe Drafts Postwar Plan to Free Up Hormuz Without U. S.
Posted by shieeet@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 120 comments
Posted by shieeet@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 120 comments
photoinduced@reddit
Europe should just buy cheap oil from Iran. Iran never did anything to us, sure they're a theocracy and autocratic but hey in the US we have the secretary of 'war' praying at press conferent and Saudi Arabia is autocratic. Iran never treated to invade EU territory ublike the US. and the ehile issue between Iran and Israel is non of our business, why do we have to pay a price for Israel when they don't even help out in Ukraine? Hell if we got closer to Iran we would be pushing them to Russia
RepulsiveMeatSlab@reddit
Iran is aligned with Russia, which very much is a threat to Europe. Throwing money towards that coalition is not a good idea.
Gleneroo@reddit
I would like to add Europe is already buying gas from Azerbaijan, which is not a 'nice' country also (roughly 2–5% of the EU’s total gas imports).
reflexive-polytope@reddit
"Azerbaijan is not a nice country" is quite the understatement. They've invaded Armenian territory! (I'm not talking about Nagorno-Karabakh, which is internationally recognized Azerbaijan territory, although the fact that Armenians fled is very telling.)
But I suppose Armenians simply aren't white enough for Europe to care, just like Georgians weren't white enough in 2008.
SujiroKimisuge@reddit
I'm pretty sure most of the EU energy and oil imports are not really ranking great in those freedomburguer indexes.
PropJoesChair@reddit
Let's be honest, it's the vast majority of OPEC
n05h@reddit
If the EU was proactive and smart about it, then they would use Iran as a trading partner with certain requirements. Create a positive relationship with positive reinforcement for upholding human rights laws.
kolitics@reddit
“Should we help the US stop Iran from having nukes?”
“Nah let’s be proactive and cultivate an energy dependence that would allow Russia to coordinate with their neighbors across the caspian to shut off all our energy”
photoinduced@reddit
Israel has stolen nukes and a hidden programme, let's disarm Israel as part of the agreement where iran doesn't get nukes, otherwise why the double standard. And before yoy say anything Israel has violated international law more often then Iran
kolitics@reddit
Israel is a strategic ally to the west, particularly the US. Nukes serve in place of security guarantees from the west that help deter attacks on them without the west risking being automatically drawn into conflict.
photoinduced@reddit
Israel is not our ally, it is a selfish ethnostate that undermines international law and forces us to take sides against arab and muslim states. The middle east would be a better place without it
photoinduced@reddit
Israel has stolen nukes and a hidden programme, let's disarm Israel as part of the agreement where iran doesn't get nukes, otherwise why the double standard. And before yoy say anything Israel has violated international law more often then Iran
MC_chrome@reddit
Iran has been helping Russia pummel Ukraine for the past 4 years, but sure, they haven’t directly invaded any EU territory
Lopsided-Selection85@reddit
If selling weapons is helping, than most of the west is complicit in Israeli war crimes...
MC_chrome@reddit
You’re correct about that.
Sadly it has taken until now for most EU countries to take a second look at those defense deals.
Lopsided-Selection85@reddit
But that's just objectively not true. If a war starts and a 3rd country doesn't change their relations to either of the parties, it's called staying neutral. In Russia-Ukraine war countries like Iran, China, India are neutral. While western countries support Ukraine as they changed their relations with belligerent countries due to war, be it sanctions on Russia or preferential deals with Ukraine.
The whole "continuing to trade means they allies" BS, was pushed by the west to mask their collective failure to defeat Russia. Additionally the west tried and failed to isolate Russia with this by claiming "If you are not with us, you are against us".
The fact that EU started to rethink their relations with Israel, is good, because staying neutral in the case of the actual genocide, is just silly.
huruga@reddit
You lose neutral status if you specifically trade in war materials according to international law.
Simply continuing to trade in not a thing that causes you to lose neutral status yes. But that’s not what Iran is doing.
Lopsided-Selection85@reddit
Under Article 7 of both Hague Conventions, a neutral state is not required to prevent private companies or individuals from exporting arms or military equipment to belligerents.
"Shahed Aviation Industries" is a private company.
huruga@reddit
With the added caveat of so long as they treat both nations impartially. Which they haven’t. Iranian military advisers have been killed in Crimea who were training Russians on the operation of drones amongst other things.
Lopsided-Selection85@reddit
"Which they haven’t. Iranian military advisers have been killed in Crimea" - Says Kiev
Fixed that for you. There is as much evidence of that as there is of Iran killing Ukrainian advisors intercepting their drones in gulf...
Nope. Simply not true. Western media always simplifies things for their audiences to say "Iran sold", in reality the deals were through private companies: Russian Alabuga and Iranian Sahara Thunder.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/pauliddon/2025/08/10/shaheds-for-what-russia-drone-deal-may-have-given-iran-sellers-remorse/
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
Is that a different Sahara Thunder for the one owned and operated by the Iranian Ministry of Defense and Armed Forces Logistics, and which was coordinating the clandestine export of Iranian oil?
SirStupidity@reddit
That's exactly what you all have been saying for years lmao
photoinduced@reddit
The point stands, your government kept toying with an invasion of an ally. Iran has economic ties with whoever wants to trade with them. If we were a bigger trading partner to Iran they would think twice about upsetting that balance. Does Israel not trade with Russia?
MC_chrome@reddit
What Trump did is inexcusable, but the current reality remains that Iran has sent many drones and other munitions to the front lines in Ukraine to aid Russia. By trying to parley with the government in Tehran, the EU would be throwing Ukraine to the wolves.
photoinduced@reddit
From Iran's perspective it needs trade, it will trade with whoever it can. If Europe was a bigger trading partner, Europe would have leverage to stop Iran from selling offensive weapons to Russia. But we attack them economically to make the US and Israel happy and we have to suffer the consequences.
Again does Israel not trade with Russia? Aren't they also fueling the Russian war machine?
MC_chrome@reddit
Europe suffers the consequences of Iran funding proxy groups around the world.
The really stupid thing about this whole conflict is that it could have been avoided entirely, or at least had its objectives accomplished more throughly, if the United States had consulted with the EU and developed more of a plan than just carpet bombing Iran.
No one here sheds tears for the Ayatollahs, I think. However, due to Donald Trump royally mucking up US relations with Europe and him taking orders from other entities he has helped make the government in Tehran look like the more sensible party
R6ckStar@reddit
Last thin I want is for Europe to restart following the US into world police actions, especially actions completely based on lies.
Secondly Europe should have never sanctioned Iran, them not being allowed to trade with us means we don't have any leverage.
Europe making a deal with Iran for oil/oil derivatives would not throw Ukraine under the bus, it's much worse that Europe buys Russian oil that directly funds the war machine.
MC_chrome@reddit
Europe should never have sanctioned one of the primary sponsors of terrorism? How on earth does that make any sense?
chillichampion@reddit
Europe didn’t sanction Israel.
R6ckStar@reddit
Should we sanction the US as well?
photoinduced@reddit
We really don't though. None of the terror attacks were funded by Iran. Would it be better if MENA was a stable region, sure but we're suffering more on fuel prices than Iran propping up militias around the middle east. Israel's issues are not ours
ugly_dog_@reddit
ukraine isnt eu territory. bit of a reach
CluelessExxpat@reddit
4 years? No. Russia used Shaeds only initially. They do all the manufacturing now and Gerans are way more sophisticated.
simplexrofl@reddit
Iran supplied the starting point, which is not in any way insignificant considering even the US has begun fielding its own domestic Shahed clones. That base design was an incredible bit of technology than Iran shared with Russia.
lovely-cans@reddit
And the EU still buys gas off Russia
PartySr@reddit
US and Israel is also helping Russia atm. US lifted some of the sanctions, and the war affected our economies.
champagneface@reddit
Well Ukraine isn’t EU, so they haven’t even indirectly done so
BroMan001@reddit
The us has been theocratic for a while too. People seem to forget that Bush said “god told me to invade Iraq”
Best_Change4155@reddit
?????
photoinduced@reddit
Already explained this above. Go find it
Pilznarr@reddit
Europe should invest in cheap renewables and storage rather than cheap oil that could render the planet uninhabitable for large multicellular life by the end of the century in the most pessimistic estimates. Considering oil and gas as viable energy sources at this point is suicidal. Optimistic estimates point to a climate future where global commerce and connectivity go tits up, famine and drought kills billions of the world's poorest and right wing violence explodes with the influx of people escaping lethal summer heat in the tropics. This is all not to mention, wet bulb events and brownouts will also kill people in the global north, Britain and Ireland might already be screwed with regards to agriculture becoming impossible due to AMOC actively collapsing.
photoinduced@reddit
Definitely invest in renewables and nuclear, but. Buying cheap oil from Iran is not an investment it can be done in the short term, which is what we need now
Zipz@reddit
They’ve never done anything to Europe /s
2018 Paris bomb plot
Assassination plots in Denmark (2018)
Netherlands killings (2015 & 2017)
Germany surveillance & synagogue targeting (2022)
Sweden plots against Jewish and Israeli targets (2023–2024)
That’s not even including the cyberattacks or the majority of the spies that have been caught
historicusXIII@reddit
And also regulary imprisoning European citizens, often with the purpose of prisoner exchanges.
Firecracker048@reddit
Nope that all just Hasbara and false flags man. Come on! /s
18285066@reddit
Dont even try. These people are beyond reason
photoinduced@reddit
Fair
panopticon_aversion@reddit
Saudi Arabia is way less democratic and way more theocratic than Iran. It’s not even close.
sakezaf123@reddit
In the terrible dictatorship olympics that you're trying to create here, I'd put them on a similar level, in terms of gemeral oppressiveness, but Iran does a lot more citizen murdering. (Not that SA is averse to it.)
Anyway, the EU and the world would be better off if they cut all trade with SA also, not open up more trade with Iran.
panopticon_aversion@reddit
Iran categorically has a more developed electoral system with more democratic engagement than Saudi Arabia, which is a literal monarchy.
We also see significantly more participation in public life by women in Iran.
Let’s take the most recent presidential elections for example.
Iran’s 2024 presidential election saw a reformist candidate elected.
Saudi Arabia doesn’t hold elections.
Otto_Von_Waffle@reddit
Per capita Saudi Arabia executed more people then Iran until recently. Comparing how bad regimes are is often comparing apples to oranges, but Iran and SA are definitely around the same level of garbage regime.
mostard_seed@reddit
It is amazing how much dictatorship you can get away with if your populace is well off enough.
BendicantMias@reddit
That's an overly simplistic explanation. There are rich dictatorships like KSA, but also poor dictatorships like Kyrgystan. And plenty in Africa too. It's not simply about money. This tendency to oversimplify autocratic regimes keeps leading observers astray, just as it has in the case of Iran in this war.
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
You can't be an dictatorship and fight agaisnt Israel. You also can't nationalize your oil.
If you avoid these two things, go for gold.
Don't actually go for gold though because France will likely colonize you if you find too much.
mostard_seed@reddit
You can't be anything and fight against Israel tbf. You can still maybe nationalize your oil as long as American companies were not involved beforehand.
As for gold, at least it isn't the good old days when it was Portugal/Spain/Belgium.
mostard_seed@reddit
I don't mean get away with on the international stage to begin with. I should have written it more clearly. I mean in terms of local public opinion among that country's nationals.
BendicantMias@reddit
Yes, I was referring to internally. It's a persistent mistake to oversimplify the internal dynamics of autocracies. They aren't as simple or easy as outsiders like to think of them as. As Trump is finding out now in Iran.
mostard_seed@reddit
I am personally not American, so I do not know what they think too well. I am from a dictatorship myself lol.
I don't know what internal dynamics you are referring to exactly. There are the ones within the ruling class of the system themselves, but these are not the ones I am referring to. Dictatorial rule is definitively aligned against the public trying to take it over except when they need them for legitimacy for a coup or defense against an aggressor, like in Iran. The people's opinion on that rule itself can clearly be seen to differ depending on their economic outlook. I am 100% sure less Iranians would be anti IRGC if they were as well off as the Saudis. That's what I am saying. Whatever dynamics exist between the parliament and IRGC and Basij and Kurdish separatists are not in question here, neither are the ones between Saudi princes and tribes and the Saudi Shias.
Contundo@reddit
Fuck Iran. They need to get fucked.
photoinduced@reddit
Very well thought out stance here. Becareful trump might hire you.
mostard_seed@reddit
I mean... they used to buy from Russia and currently buy from Azerbaijan.
bluecheese2040@reddit
Tbh I think Iran is well within its rights to demand a toll from boats passing.
Imagine how catholics and other Christians would react if Saudi Arabia bombed the Vatican and killed the pope and Europe's top leaders. It wouldn't be good.
We waited until all or most of the Iranian dissidents in Iran were rounded up and killed...we bombed their country relentlessly.
I think paying Iran is just gonna be the price tbh.
It's almost like wars have consequences
ImpossibleDragonfly@reddit
If the toll is for reparations for damages incurred during the war than why make non-US countries pay?
Like why force Asia and India to pay for a war that had nothing to do with them?
bluecheese2040@reddit
It's how the world works. Iran would likely charge us more and them less
alkbch@reddit
It’s remarkable how European countries make postwar plans, both for the war in Ukraine and in Iran, but don’t actually attempt to broker peace for either conflict.
Chipay@reddit
As opposed to the Americans and Russians, who seem to start wars without any plans?
But sure, the US has been negotiating with Ukraine and Russia since Trump took office, what great strides towards peace has the USA made in this conflict?
alkbch@reddit
Europeans start wars without plans too, there’s a slave market in Libya nowadays thanks to Sarkozy…
The US has brought Russia and Ukraine much closer to a potential peace agreement, even though it hasn’t materialized yet, than any European country.
photoinduced@reddit
The US bullied the underdog to try to give up land and cede to the aggressor. Just cause it's closer to signing a deal doesn't mean it's closer to real lasting peace.
chillichampion@reddit
What does a lasting peace look like to you?
photoinduced@reddit
Return of the pre-2014 borders but i recognise that's unrealistic. Freezing the front lines and/or exchanging of land from both size to create a more logical border (given people can chose to be relocated) and security guarantees including Russia admitting Ukraine is free to join NATO if it so chooses
chillichampion@reddit
And why the hell would Russia agree to any of that?
alkbch@reddit
Because photoinduced thinks it will bring lasting peace.
crispdude@reddit
The US has literally done nothing to end the war in Ukraine.
Chipay@reddit
A potential peace deal that hasn't materialized just yet between two Orthodox Christian countries that cannot maintain a ceasefire during Easter celebrations. God bless the diplomatic powerhouse that is the United States of America.
dusjanbe@reddit
Actually, the US brokered the peace treaty between DRC and Rwanda just recently.
Also Jimmy Carter got Israel and Egypt to sign a peace treaty within the US. Bill Clinton got Jordan and Israel to sign a peace treaty.
The Dayton Agreement were signed in Dayton, Ohio.
cttuth@reddit
Europeans have realised that there are parties in both conflicts which are unreliable and are not looking for a peaceful resolution (Israel/US as well as Russia).
alkbch@reddit
Even if that were true, do you just expect others to clean the mess, and you come in when peace is brokered by other countries?
BendicantMias@reddit
You MADE the mess buddy, they're the ones cleaning up after YOU.
22stanmanplanjam11@reddit
They’re not cleaning up anything, they’re saying they’re going to clean up something. By the time they actually do anything it will already be settled and there will be some other geopolitical issue that the EU will say they’re going to do something about.
alkbch@reddit
I didn’t make no mess.
What is there to cleanup once the war is over? If Europeans think they can ensure the boats safety, why don’t they do it now? If they can’t ensure the boats safety now, what makes them think they can do it later?
BendicantMias@reddit
Most American sentence I've read all week. Very Trumpian lol.
And they'll do it later cos, unlike you Americans, they'll ask permission. Of Iran. It's obvious you didn't even read the article. This isn't directed against Iran, it's directed towards insurers and shipping companies.
So basically, they'll do it by simply not acting like MAGAt Americans.
alkbch@reddit
They’ll ask permission from Iran to send military ships to escort tankers and protect them from… Iran?
RdPirate@reddit
The plan is a giant demining and UXO removal mission. Fucking read.
alkbch@reddit
Instead of being rude, you might want to take your own advice.
RdPirate@reddit
Yeah, ours ships can all do demining and UXO clearance to some degree.
And just b/c Iran has given up, does not mean there ain't militant groups in the region.
alkbch@reddit
You keep bringing up de-mining, that's not what I have quoted. For all we know there might not even be any mine there.
If Europeans think they can ensure the boats safety, why don’t they do it now? If they can’t ensure the boats safety now, what makes them think they can do it later?
BendicantMias@reddit
Cos right now there's a war - your war. And they're not gonna join you in prosecuting it. They've made that very clear. You're just trying to twist words around to try to make them join in your war.
alkbch@reddit
LOL this is not my war, I have nothing to do with it.
Yes, there is a war, which is why tankers need protection. When there is no war, tankers don't need protection.
BendicantMias@reddit
This is getting too dumb to continue. Stop being American, American. Iran isn't the problem here, you are. Give up, pack up, go home and the Strait will be opened again. With tolls if necessary, thanks to YOU.
cttuth@reddit
Eh? The article is describing exactly how Europe is AGAIN cleaning up after US' mess, after Iraq, Afghanistan etc.
YOU started the war, now go find a way to end it.
alkbch@reddit
I didn't start anything.
Your plan to clean up the mess is to ... wait for the war end... LOL
photoinduced@reddit
I didn't start anything said the guy who is acting like thw other redditor is making the post war plans.
alkbch@reddit
When did I suggest that?
Born_Suspect7153@reddit
>Even if that were true, do you just expect others to clean the mess, and you(notice the you) come in when peace is brokered by other countries?
His response:
>YOU started the war, now go find a way to end it.
Your response:
>I didn't start anything.
So maybe you were both talking about the general you but then you didn't need to be all hurt when he also responded with you.
alkbch@reddit
I wasn't talking about the general you
cttuth@reddit
Yes, that's usually when the mess is there, AFTER the fighting stops. I know it's an alien concept for Americans who rarely have to suffer the consequences of their actions, but in Europe we know :)
alkbch@reddit
A German lecturing on mess cleanup 🙂
cttuth@reddit
Yeah, something something turntables and baddies, huh?
chillichampion@reddit
And Ukraine too.
Cookie_Monstress@reddit
That’s not true. There’s been several attempts with the peace talks on Ukraine war. Our president has been even sent to play golf with yours.
alkbch@reddit
You can't help broker peace if you don't talk to both parties.
RdPirate@reddit
So why does the US continue to not talk with Ukraine about it and just sends demands?
alkbch@reddit
The U.S. talks with Ukraine
RdPirate@reddit
But never during negotiations with Russia. Only when called or to inform them of what they decided with Russia.
alkbch@reddit
Yes, even during negotiations with Russia. Keep trying to unsuccessfully move the goal post though.
Trollimperator@reddit
How do you broker peace with Shit-Tards like Trump and Putin? Asking for a friend.
CluelessExxpat@reddit
Everytime i read a news about Europe, i first think i misunderstood the headline or think its satire if its a website i don't know.
Then i read the article and its real.
Someone needs to gather all EU leaders and that zombie Leyen in a room and slap the hell out of them.
Their "daddy US, muh Israel" policy seems to have no limits no matter how much it hurts the block.
Unbelievable.
Gordfang@reddit
How can you get that from the article?
This mission will only go on with Iran approval, it's a de-mining operation and confidence booster for the Insurance company to restore Global Trade.
It directly goes against what the US want
Bhavacakra_12@reddit
Everything Europe does, it does to the benefit of the US. Dressing it up as "without America" doesn't change the fact that they are still doing something that benefits America. Europe constantly does this and they do it for better PR.
RdPirate@reddit
Us having an economy or working laws benefits the US, should we dissolve our economies and become warring tribes to spite them? Or is cutting off our nose to spite the face of another absolute insanity?
Bhavacakra_12@reddit
Hey remember when the US launched a massive trade war against Europe and instead of uniting with other allies to fight the bully, they bent the knee as fast as humanly possible?
Europe ALWAYS finds itself on the same side as american adventurism, even when they are firmly on the wrong side. This has been the case for decades and it has not changed despite elections bringing in fresh faces. It's the same old story but with different window dressing. Nothing ever changes and Europe remains a loyal lapdog.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
They don't work for Europeans, it's as simple as that. They're all Atlanticists at heart and their main goal is to protect Western (American) hegemonic status
PartySr@reddit
I don't understand what is the end plan here. Are they going to send warships and hope that everything ends well or what? Iran will want something out of this, they won't sit and watch how Europe or US will control the straight.
After all, their economy and infrastructure took a major hit. If EU or US wants to reopen the straight, they will have to give the Iranian something in return, otherwise Iran will continue to attack the ships if they want to, no matter how many warships they send to the defend the oil tankers.
BendicantMias@reddit
Try reading the article?
Europe isn't proposing to control the Strait. This is nothing but a confidence building mission for insurers, as well as removing the sea mines floating about. They aren't gonna fight, and will likely get Iranian permission to do so.
This is also all entirely a post-war mission, so it does nothing right now.
PartySr@reddit
I did read the article, that's why I am asking.
Europe is proposing to control the straight, not just move some ship there for reassurance. The shit heads from US or Israel won't foot the bill for Iran reconstruction, and the only thing left for Iran is taxing every ship that passes through the straight.
Europe already said that they won't accept a toll on the straight.
BendicantMias@reddit
So this isn't a combat mission of any sort, just a de-mining and confidence boosting mission for the insurance companies.
Chipay@reddit
Europe has a shitton of minehunters, triple China's and 30-40 times what the US navy yields, so it's in a unique position to quickly de-mine the strait.
Yes, we'll be cleaning up after the Americans, but the faster ships can pass again the faster the global economy can recover.
-Revelation-@reddit
It's always a POSTWAR PLAN.
shieeet@reddit (OP)
Link with paywall removed
Gleneroo@reddit
Thanks !