To Stay on trend, is 200 HP enough to have fun in a car?

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Ok-Pack-5474@reddit

My perception changed once I jumped off my 150 hp bike onto a 9 hp grom

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yurnxt1@reddit

2019 Ford Fiesta rated 197HP 202 Torque more like 200HP and 225 Torque stock and yes its enough to have fun.

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willmaineskier@reddit

My 1986 Mazda RX7 was very fun to drive and had about 150 hp. Great on turns, just not on a dragstrip.

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Wreckingass@reddit

Anything less than 3,000lb with 200hp is going to be fun. Might not be blisteringly quick, but enough to zip around with. Bonus points for a manual transmission and a great sound.

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When you're young, the world is small and conclusions are simple. If I have more horsepower, i will be happy. Then you buy a car with more horsepower, and it is not enough. You grind a couple more years and buy something with even more power. You repeat this cycle a few times and buy that car you dreamt of as a kid. You love the car, but you realize that you're driving it around on public roads where you cannot exploit its potential without going to jail or to the morgue.

That's when it hits you: fun isn't about maximum performance, it's about the things that make driving a car fun. Pushing the car, pushing yourself, and exploiting everything you can about the machine you're in.

This is why "Miata is always the answer" is such a common reply. The Miata has less than 200 hp, but the first time you turn the steering wheel in one, you realize that you've been focused on all the wrong things. Chapman was right: simplify, then add lightness.

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mallogy@reddit

Add to this that most of us lack even the skills to reach the limits of something like a Miata.

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SkylineFTW97@reddit

Chapman was always right. I learned that early on having got my start behind the wheel racing go karts. Those things are some of the most fun you can have behind the wheel and you're topping out at maybe 35 MPH.

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electricalineptitude@reddit

What's the car? The second most fun I've ever had in a car was an ND3 Miata about a year ago. 181 HP but that thing fucking felt like a street legal go cart.

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Tallica81@reddit

My pulsar is 170hp and it's pretty damn fun

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originalusername7904@reddit

I daily a C7 Stingray (M7) but I still want an ND Miata

When I really want to go fast I pull out my <200hp Honda

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originalusername7904@reddit

An RCR Steinard Formula Libre would be a blast with 200hp (<1000lbs)

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ScoobertDoubert@reddit

Yes 200hp is more tan enough to have fun in a car.

Power to weight matters more than hp.

Usable power matters more than power to weight ratio.

Driving feel and experience matter more than usable power.

I have more fun in my swift sport weight 1050kg with 136hp than my dads sti with 330hp for 1500kg.

Both are fun though. I even had in my 2008 FWD Impreza with 107hp. It was woefully slow but as long as it's a manual and you have some good back roads any car can be fun.

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tac0h3ead@reddit

I like to know what the car is feeling. Could be 500hp could 50. If it feels like I'm floating along the road like a luxury boat (BMW 7series, MB S-class, rolls Royce, etc...) 90% of the time I don't want it. This is not to say I wouldn't love to have one. I would.

But for me to have fun, either something nimble, playful, and communicative that puts a smile on your face 24/7 (with a manual transmission) Honda S2000, F80 BMW M2(this can be automatic) ANY Miata, VW Golf R, Civic Del Sol

it could be a car that feels like it's actively trying to kill you: MK1 ford GT, OG Porsche 911 Turbo, Viper, McLaren 720s etc...

Last but not least, literally ANY grand touring cabriolet would absolutely be AMAZING to drive. Lexus LC500, Mercedes AMG SL500, Aston Martin V12 Vantage, BMW M8 comp, etc ...

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Shooshplz@reddit

Power to weight ratio can make or break a cars fun level.

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howrunowgoodnyou@reddit

It’s not even power to weight.

Experience > metrics

My 90 civic si is slow as fuck on paper.

But it sounds cool at high rpm and the suspension is sublime w AMAZING visibility (aka no safety) and no sound deadening so it FEELS fast as fuck.

A Bentley for example is very fast yet so isolated that it doesn’t feel fast.

Meanwhile my civic feels like 100mph at 60

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Roccnsuccmetosleep@reddit

Dripping in cope lol

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howrunowgoodnyou@reddit

I have an aircooled 911 and an rs2 spec Audi 5 cylinder. And like 6 other cars.

But sure it’s cope….

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Roccnsuccmetosleep@reddit

I misunderstood. In a vacuum it reads as cope, I don’t know you. Slow car fast driving is a blast, which is what you were getting at. What year is the 911?

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howrunowgoodnyou@reddit

Impact bumper 70s

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patches710@reddit

Man, I totally get what you're saying, but you're using both absute extremes. There is definitely a happy middle ground here between old loud shitbox and ultra high end luxury car.

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ARID_DEV@reddit

That middle ground is loud shit boxes from 00-10’s. Jk. Sorta.

I find manual cars with updated sportier suspension that’s not to the point of completely vague for the sense of comfort are the most fun.

Mazda 3, Volvo s40, civics, Miata’s, are all really fun, easily tunable and rather cheap.

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patches710@reddit

I own a manual 2022 ZL1. That was the perfect middle ground IMO. I can feel every single bump in the road. Definitely not designed for comfort, designed for track times. It's also got 650 HP, which is incredibly fun.

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howrunowgoodnyou@reddit

New car owners are intolerable. Enjoy your plastic bank car.

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patches710@reddit

Lol what?

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howrunowgoodnyou@reddit

Except you can’t use it on the street. Mat it for 10 seconds and you’re going to prison

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WordWithinTheWord@reddit

10 seconds WOT in a B16 Civic will also land you a felony ticket on a 55mph highway

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ARID_DEV@reddit

Yea that certainly is up there as a fun car.

I was trying to pick a more affordable, entry/budget fun car. I’ve seen people severely underestimate a 160-200HP econoshitbox let alone a 300+ purpose built track toy.

I love that USDM still try’s to make some cool things with a manual gear box, but I wish daily drivers were available too. Focus and fiesta ST are gone now, which is a shame.

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patches710@reddit

Fair enough. I was just thinking what's the literal median between a 35 year old sporty shit box and a new $200k+ luxury sedan. I suppose a Cadillac CTS-V is probably a more apt choice, although it does share the same platform as my Camaro.

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ARID_DEV@reddit

I think the ZL1, and Mustang are absolutely fair in terms of a proper, “new” vehicle middle ground. They’re great cars. Id say the turn of the century corvettes as well, they’re rather cheap aren’t they? 30-40K?

There’s plenty of examples around that are in great condition compared to finding a 90-10 civic that isn’t clapped or a Miata that isn’t ran through.

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patches710@reddit

You can get a base 2015 vette for 35k all day here in California. Probably cheaper elsewhere

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ARID_DEV@reddit

Yea I’d say that’s a steal for performance to value.

I’m a fan of eco-shitboxes but if someone wanted a really capable rwd car, I’d say that’s the move. Tons of culture and support.

The BRZ/FRS/86 is great as well. Like really good.

European RWD/AWD is also great. BMW, Audi, VW, just need deep pockets and long weekends.

Isn’t there a ton of clubs and classes for just ZL1’s?

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patches710@reddit

Isn’t there a ton of clubs and classes for just ZL1’s?

Honestly no idea, I just generally appreciate enthusiast cars, I have no desire to hang out with a bunch of nerds where the only thing we have in common is the car we drive lol

My father got me into cars growing up wrenching on his 1954 Austin-Healey with him, and I really appreciate anything that's meant for enjoyment and not just an appliance.

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ARID_DEV@reddit

Fair enough!

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No_Caregiver7273@reddit

I drove the VW version of that car in college. Highway speeds felt like a hundred and the cloud of smoke I left came from oil leaks sloshing onto hot surfaces somewhere.

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MotelSans17@reddit

Those older cars also don't have the throttle delay that is programmed into modern cars for emission purpose (not even talking about turbo lag here which just makes things worse). The engine might be weak, but it's always there when you need it. Downshifting is fun and a breeze. That goes a long way towards enjoyment.

Driving a modern car with a stick shift feels so clunky in comparison. Sure they're fast as heck once the turbo hits, but there is more to enjoyment than pure acceleration.

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timmeh-eh@reddit

It’s not necessarily for emissions reasons, it’s the mechanical connection to the throttle body. I’m the 90s almost every car in the road had a cable that ran from the gas pedal to the throttle body. If you stepped on the pedal the throttle opened, let off, it closed. I’m the early 2000s pretty much every manufacturer started moving to electronic throttles, this has several advantages but changed that connection from a mechanical cable to a sensor that translates your foot movement to a corresponding position that the throttle should be at. The processing in between coupled with logic that will change the throttle position based on current engine speed, vehicle speed, and many other variables really removes a layer of control and makes it feel much more artificial.

In some cars - like a 911 GT3 - the software side is so well designed that it feels almost exactly like that mechanical linkage is still there. But on most mainstream cars it feels pretty disconnected and delayed.

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MotelSans17@reddit

Electric throttle can be made even quicker than cable (a cable can have slack)

They do program a "slowing" down of the opening and closing of the throttle body for emissions purpose. It's not because of the electronic throttle, but it enables these things. Driving a modern stick shift car (performance brands aside) is frustrating.

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OnlyFuzzy13@reddit

It’s more fun to drive a slow car fast, then it is to drive a fast car slow.

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UmatterWHENiMATTER@reddit

Agreed. Short geared, light flywheel, high RPMs, FWD with an LSD and 200 to the wheels in a crx/civic/del sol/etc., Is a ridiculous amount of fun.

It's the low with stiff suspension and responsiveness of a light car that makes it feel fast imo. That and the stiffer engine/transmission mounts so you feel it in the frame/wheel.

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Coding-Panic@reddit

My civic ain't much, but I put in aftermarket coilovers main reason being so when my kids and their friends are in the back seat we don't bottom out on some of the stupidly tall speed bumps in my neighborhood. It has made camping and even a cross country road trip (which accidentally included some cross country driving) really comfortable. Probably not for my control arm bushings, but fuck those guys.

When I'm in the car on my own there's no body roll. With some good quality tires on it, the cornering ability is way past my comfort level. I've driven much nicer sportier cars than mine, and I've never had that feeling like I'm going to break traction and skid like a plank when cornering.

It's fun to drive.

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Wardog008@reddit

200 hp is plenty as long as the car isn't too heavy.

I daily drive a Toyota MR-S (MR2 Spyder in the US), and that's only about 130-140 horsepower, but weighs just 970 kgs. She ain't fast by any means, but the lightweight + mid engine layout makes for one of the best handling cars on the road short of a Lotus.

If it wasn't obvious, outright speed isn't what's most important to me. Fast cars are huge fun, don't get me wrong, but I much prefer a car that you can drive at ten tenths on a backroad or mountain road without breaking the speed limit, to something you've gotta constantly back off the throttle in to make sure you're not going to get hit with a ticket.

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AlecLikesMacintosh@reddit

This, have an MR-S too. And it’s by far the most fun car I have had. I’d rather drive it than my Mk7.5 GTI, but sometimes you have to get groceries and have a passenger at the same time.

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Wardog008@reddit

Yeah, the passenger + groceries bit is the killer lol. Though, I've made a passenger and cargo work, it just takes a bit of work to make it happen, and it'd suck to do regularly.

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Alpha4Bravo6@reddit

Fiesta ST has entered the chat

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AlecLikesMacintosh@reddit

These are fantastic. So punchy

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Hot_Customer666@reddit

The best cheap fun car

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FoundationTower@reddit

For me, 200 hp is daily driver territory. Need something with around 300+hp for a fun vehicle

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AnotherSprainedAnkle@reddit

It's far less about the car and far more about learning the car.

Some of the greatest driving joy I've experienced is taking long curvy roads at (if I'm fair, probably 80%) the limit of the car's capabilities. This doesn't remotely require a quick or fast car. Just moderately decent handling, knowing the car's limits, and good roads that you know very very well.

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AccomplishedNail3085@reddit

Depends on the car. Ford fusion hybrid? No. 2001 audi tt? Yes. Miat ? SUPER YES

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Old-guy64@reddit

I grew up driving cars that were absolutely amazing in a straight line.
I had access to two Big-Block Fords that were absolutely ridiculous.

Then a friend with a Datsun 510 taught me the fun of driving cars that handle.

I can have an absolute great drive with a 200hp Scion FR-S.
I love Miatas.
It’s a lot more fun to drive a slow car fast.

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Tinywhooppro@reddit

My Swift sport only is making around 160hp but it is a manual and weights like 900 kilos so I find it plenty fun

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visarmy@reddit

i want to import one of these. or a Renault Turbo 2

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dmv1985@reddit

suzuki sx4 (us market) was the first car to break 10min at the pikes peak international hill climb... they got some chops.

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morganlandt@reddit

Hill Climb is such a fun event with so many classes, great way to spend a weekend!

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MegaTurboLaser@reddit

Swift Sport is a perfect example of a fun car (like the Miata). It's a blast to drive na the road, and very competent track machine.

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Lycent243@reddit

One of the best comments I've heard about the fun factor in cars is:

It is more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow

A car that is fun to drive and can be actually driven hard is a total party. If you just like to gun it at stoplights, then fast cars are great too. Or if you take it to a track.

As dumb as it sounds, I've had more fun on city streets in a N/A 1992 MR2 than a 2022 Shelby GT350. Not that the Shelby isn't fun, it definitely is, but banging that little MR2 around corners around town is next level awesome.

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GlassCannon81@reddit

Depends entirely on the car. A 2700 lb Fiesta St with just a hair under 200 from the factory is buckets of fun. A Mustang with 200hp, not so much.

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VulpesIncendium@reddit

Horespower is a useless figure without weight. Gearing and drivetrain layout also make a big difference.

Cars like the Miata and BRZ aren't very powerful at all, yet you can have a lot of fun in them. Straight-line acceleration is only one way to have fun in a car, but I say cornering ability makes a car much more fun than going fast in a straight line.

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Dry_Possession_4776@reddit

BRZ is one of the funnest cars I have ever driven. I have one that’s lowered and also got to race one in the mud at DirtFish.

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Albert14Pounds@reddit

This might be the first positive thing I've ever seen anyone say about the BRZ

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Dry_Possession_4776@reddit

6 speed manual, super lightweight. Sure it’s a little under powered but after driving 4x4’s most of my life it’s fun to whip that thing around corners.

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jonnycooksomething@reddit

Yeah - I had a Ford Edge Sport V6 Turbo that had enough power for sure, but the gearbox, drivetrain, brakes and steering where so clunky and disconnected from one another, that it was a hopeless driving experience.

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fmeupfam14@reddit

I put a 3.45 ratio in my ND2 (stock is 2.88) and it was a riot in a straight line. Was it fast? No. Did it feel fast? Hell yes. It ripped through the gears since the final drive was so short. More fun in a straight line than my 2018 procharged GT I had before it. And it is as a tin can, so you couldnt hear or feel the increased rpm on the highway. It was totally outweighed by wind noise and just the feeling of wind at 70+ in a Miata.

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UmatterWHENiMATTER@reddit

I put a 4.7 FD in a stock 4.2 FD gearbox. That thing heckin rips.

I shortened 1-4 and kept 5 long... really only need 1, 3, 5 if you're being polite.

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EvitaPuppy@reddit

"Simplify, then add lightness"

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JCDU@reddit

That Colin Chapman knew a thing or two.

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bdubz325@reddit

My GR Corolla "only" has 300 hp, but factoring in WHP and power to weight ratio it's pretty damn nice. It's actually got a super similar power to weight ratio as a lot of Harleys and some muscle cars, despite being an AWD hot hatch

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CartierWlayvo@reddit

I agree. Straight line fun peaks pretty earlier imo

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Mouser29@reddit

There's a reason why people love miatas and it's not the horsepower

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Sloopydeth@reddit

Depends, in a Miata yes! In a pickup, no.

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96-D-1000@reddit

Absolutely, my first car had 110hp and weighed 1200kg, slow as hell but it was so fun to bash about some twisty roads, flat at all times lmao.

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Josipbroz13@reddit

50hp is enought to have fun in a car, been there done that 😉

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ReporterBest9598@reddit

My old Matrix had 138, but there was next to no sound deadening and it sounded cool, plus it was pretty easy to chuck into a corner and drive out of it. Plenty of fun to be had in it, and it was just a basic econobox.

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YEAH_TIP_ASSIST@reddit

Ever driven an Abarth or a Mini S or JCW? you can have plenty of fun with 140-170 hp.

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SoftCosmicRusk@reddit

The first Mini Cooper only had around 60 bhp. I've not been fortunate enough to drive one, but they're said to be very good fun.

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JinTay1993@reddit

Hard agree. Have had an Abarth for about a month. Haven't driven my SQ5 since. Ridiculously fun car. And a sport button that feels like another turbo got slapped on. Lol. Personally even more fun than the two miatas and 350z I've owned.

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micifaramustar@reddit

I have the base 135hp Abarth, can confirm.

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Milnoc@reddit

I have an Abarth. Batshit crazy little car.

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Mindless_Library22@reddit

As long as it’s a manual it will be fun

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doose_doose@reddit

Ever ride a go-kart? Very low hp, and a top speed maybe 40mph, but an absolute blast to toss around the corners.

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landry_454kg@reddit

Depends on the car and roads. Don't forget about torque. Its more fun to drive a car with a usable torque vs a torque thay favors the higher rpms.

My current truck makes good torque at 2300-2400 rpms. A lot more fun to drive over my other truck that made the same torque but at 4000 rpms.

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MaxwellEdis0n@reddit

My 8th generation Civic Si has no torque whatsoever until you’re past ~4500. It smacks the rev limit at 7800 on a regular basis and it’s more fun than any truck.

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landry_454kg@reddit

I understand the feeling.

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Bubbly-Pirate-3311@reddit

That totally depends though. Some cars you can blast it into a turn doing like 4k rpm and then absolutely sauce it outta the corner because you've got the torque available to you. Cars with low down torque tend to feel faster because it hits sooner and you don't always have to be shifting.

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WillieMakeit77@reddit

What’s better yet though is to have something that makes 300 or so (or more) ft lbs of torque at 3k rpm and climbs from there. A big wide power band.

In ‘02 I had a Celica GTS. It had a 1.8 liter that made 180 hp and its power band was terrible. If I remember right the high lift part of the variable valve timing didn’t happen until after 5k rpm and redline was a little less than 7k. It took fooorever to get to 5k rpm and by that time the race was usually over. One time I race a guy in a V6 grand am at a stoplight. His 3.1 V6 was rated at 160 hp (@ 5,500 or so rpm I imagine) vs the 180 that my “high” revving 4 cyl msde. He walked me pretty bad. The no torque down low or even in the mid range is a killer. Even at highway speeds it took forever for it to get to its short high rpm power band. It made good hp per liter figures though.. 🤦🏻‍♂️

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InternationalCall957@reddit

Was yours auto? All you need to do with cars like that is shift down a couple of gears I routinely took higher HP cars with the European version of that car i never had an issue getting it to 5k but mine was manual so I could just shift down a couple of gears.

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WillieMakeit77@reddit

Yeah it was a dirty ole auto. I don’t remember how high it’d let you launch from but it was below the “high” lift section of the power band. The lower powered Grand AM that walked be from a dig was an auto too. But it’s power band didn’t start at 5,500…

When in motion could down shift the Celica with the buttons on the steering wheel to try and keep the RPM’s into the power band, but the power band was only from like 5,800-6,800 with a max output of 180 hp. It was slow.

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InternationalCall957@reddit

Dam that sucks mine was manual and id regularly beat an e46 330i and was on par with a ep3 civic type r both with higher power than the celica. My rev limit was 8200rpm though and it was solid from 5k.

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WillieMakeit77@reddit

My current toy is and old (2000 model) and it’s slow compared to modern “fast cars.” But it’s quite a bit faster than the old Civic’s etc. I’d have had a “fast” car had I had when it was new. It’s a 13 some odd second 1/4 mile car.

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unmanipinfo@reddit

Downshift at a stoplight? Shift into -1 or something?

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InternationalCall957@reddit

Thats what a decent launch is for if you are launching like a granny its a skill issue.

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WillieMakeit77@reddit

It wouldn’t let you launch it at 4k rpm.

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Bubbly-Pirate-3311@reddit

Ouch. The turbo in my a4 starts hitting hard around 3.5k and its redline is 7k. I hit 115 out in the middle of nowhere without even trying terribly hard. I still lost off a dig with my friend's Nissan Ariya, as embarrassing as that is.

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landry_454kg@reddit

Valid point. Transmission will also make a difference and potential drive modes.

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FlanCharacter3878@reddit

Had a 2005 Mustang, 4.0 V/6 with a whopping 210 H.P., however it had a 5 speed manual, was a ball to drive...would not have bought it with an automatic...

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Bubbly-Pirate-3311@reddit

Yeah certainly. What's weird is that the car I drive (b8.5 a4) makes more torque than it does horsepower (275 hp vs 315 ft lbs with the tune), and I still have to be in second to get it to accelerate well out of a turn. Could be that it's turbocharged and quite heavy, but still it's got torque low down. Thank god I've got the manual because I cannot imagine how indecisive the dsg would be if I wasn't using the paddles or whatever they had.

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HonJazzz@reddit

The most fun car I’ve ever driven was a Citroen 2CV and that car has less than 50hp.

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alexcutyourhair@reddit

Depends on the car, I have a 1 series with 220ish horsepower, my dad has a PHEV SUV with a combined 260hp and mine is a ton more fun. Quicker through the gears, makes a nicer noise, way better steering etc etc. That said my dad's car is super comfortable, quiet and has basically all the tech so I really enjoy driving it, it's way more relaxing and to me that's fun in its own way. For driving in 50kph city zones I've almost never found my car to be too slow, if anything I'm even scared to really floor it because it can get to speed so quickly as it is. More power would be more fun but I'm really happy with how much I have right now

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Broken_Mug@reddit

Yes.

I like a front wheel drive 5 speed manual with a smooth e-brake.

Hp, don't care.

Weight super light.

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carpet_whisper@reddit

You ever driven a Fiat 500 Abarth?

160hp, that shits fun af.

It’s all power to weight. It’s only like 2400 lbs

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Longjumping_Pilot840@reddit

Drive a MX5/ Miata with 160hp and that’s a definite yes.
Drive a 200hp diesel Audi A6 and it’s a not so much.

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Glittering_Bar_9497@reddit

I have had a blast in plenty of cars at 200hp and under. Just depends on each persons expectations. For me 300hp is that magic number and it seems like a rocket ship lol 😂 but most of my cars have been underpowered.

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badpuffthaikitty@reddit

Narrow tyres and minimal horsepower are cheap fun. You can drive them at the limit and not worry about speeding tickets.

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shmiona@reddit

I have a Hyundai genesis with a 380hp v8 and a manual ford focus with like 150hp maybe. The focus is way more fun to drive bc it has a manual, it’s lighter so you can whip it through the turns and it stops quicker, and you have to rev it high to get going so you get to hear all the cool sounds (partially bc there’s no sound deadening). Plus I can drive like that and still get 30mpg. The genesis is only better in a straight line or cruising on the highway. If I drive like a grandma I get 20mpg, if I have fun it’s more like 12.

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shortyman920@reddit

Other folks have covered this topic pretty well already so I’ll just add personally that my 2019 GTI has 221 hp and I have plenty of enjoyment and fun in it. The turning, driving dynamics, and overall agility of the car certainly makes going on ramp and tackling winding roads a treat. Do I wish I had more power? Sure, but the current levels have not hindered my enjoyment at all

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OkSchool619@reddit

When teslas can offer 588 out the factory? Nope.

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eggnog_56@reddit

Man I had an absolute blast in my 100hp 5 speed Hyundai accent 2 door hatch. If you need power to have fun, you should reevaluate.

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DoordashJeans@reddit

Depends on what you're used to. I'll never have a sub 450hp car again TBH.

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Demented-Alpaca@reddit

Look at the cars that are routinely outed as some of the most fun to drive:
Miata
BRZ/GR86
MBG
Civic SI

All of them are smaller, all of them are lighter and all of them are factory low horse power.

yes, I drove an Audi S5 and it was THRILLING. I mean that car could go from 60 to 100 in the blink of an eye. But it was big, heavy and clunky. My Miata makes like 1/3 the power, weighs 1/2 the weight and is so damn much more fun to drive even though it's objectively slower.

(Fun fact, the cost of ownership of the Miata is less than 1/4 that of the Audi)

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Chuckle_Flukk88@reddit

My 03 Volkswagen GTi coupe makes about 200hp with a 5speed and its still a hoot to drive...

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poutine-eh@reddit

back in the day we had fun with 200 HP in a 71 Mustang 302 v8… Our Maverick Grabber had the same engine and was lighter. Hp means little…. look at the weight of the car and the torque.

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Lobster_K@reddit

My 1990 Miata makes 93hp and is by far the most fun car I've ever owned.

HP is only one factor of many. coilover suspension with 15x8 wheels and 200 tread wear tires makes the car handle better than most sports cars.

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ChampionshipTall6599@reddit

No. 600hp is where it's at.

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noladutch@reddit

Ok just go find a way to drive a true light car.

I have had two lotus cars a elan s2 and a elan +2.

The s2 was about 1400 pounds and had roughly 105 hp. That is great at 13 pounds per hp.

Not one person would ever think it was a slow car. You can drive deep into corners and use momentum.

You don't need mush power. To have fun really.

What you need is a car with a good feel. Steering brakes and most of all of a manual not so much power you blast thru the speed limit at the bottom of second gear.

Modern shit is geared so tall you don't get to row gears at street safe speeds.

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MasterKaleidoscope97@reddit

$5k budget 3k mk4 gti/golf OTS tune Downpipe Suspension Tires

200hp car, handling is stiffer with upgraded suspension they still understeer a bit but for a budget build this is the most bang for your buck. Turbo, easy to work on.

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largos7289@reddit

a 200 hp golf cart is fun but is it? I've had a ton of fun cars all under 400hp. I had a srt-4, turbo really fun car to drive even thou it was a neon. I did some smaller mods to it to bump it up close to 400hp. my bud had a Datsun 240 he slapped a mildly built 350 in it. That was a crazy car, i had a vega that i put a warmed over 350 in and it was a blast. I have a 06 mustang GT with 315hp in it and it's way fun.

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pooborus@reddit

Yeah. Hp is really cool, but you can have fun at any hp. 150 hp car with a skidplate and a dirtroad goes pretty hard.

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Boosted_Vet@reddit

As a person who has had a heads/cam/blower Corvette at mid 6xx to the wheels. And then I've had 3 miatas from 99whp to 257whp.

200hp is MORE than enough to have a complete blast with in the right car. 200hp in a Miata is in my opinion it's sweet spot.

Sure my old vette is gonna walk away in a single gear in a straight line. But you rarely actually get to use any of it. the 200 hp Miata you can floor it on an onramp and bang through multiple gears before you even get on the freeway. Corvette could go from 10mph to jail time in a single gear before the offramp was even finished. And the 200hp Miata was mfar more fun at autocross and most track days. It was also stupid cheap and pretty darn reliable at that power. I had plenty of time and money to spend on track days.
where my Vette was a money pit of an unreliable garage queen.

I actually miss the 180 and 250hp miatas I had more than I miss the Vette.

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JRAPodcast@reddit

I had a 2001 Ford Focus ZX5 - regular ole model - nothing fancy. 5 speed manual. Was fun to drive because you could drive it flat out and being going . . . . . . . wait for it . . . . . . . now the speed limit.

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iHaveLotsofCats94@reddit

I had a 2011 Fiesta with a 5 speed for a few years that was the same way. I could drive the piss out of that car, never really break the speed limit, and still get over 30mpg. That was a fun little car

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JRAPodcast@reddit

Totally. And everything was cheap. Insurance, gas, the works.

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demon_twink_gockie@reddit

Yes. 50hp is enough to have fun in a car. Power is truly irrelevant: there's other things than speed that can make a car fun. My D21 was fun. I don't think it even had 100hp. But it was a tiny truck! I had a blast! What about a reliant robin? Looks like a blast! And what? Maybe 20hp, if that, I assume? FUCK POWER. BRING ON THE QUIRKY, NERDY, DIRTY, WEIRD SHIT. I like the slow ass DEATH traps like that.

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Green_Report_9503@reddit

i have 200hp in my old 93 nx2000, tons of fun.

but i'd get stomped by even the low end EVs nowadays

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sprchrgddc5@reddit

I’ve had two 200hp cars, a Fiesta ST and an RSX Type S. I’m on my second RSX Type S (it’s supercharged) as well as dailying a Kona N (276hp).

IMO, 250whp is enough but it really depends, weight, torque, NA vs FI. My first NA RSX has like no torque. Off the like power is just not there versus the Fiesta ST. My supercharged one is really great all around, but still lacks torque.

FiST had more torque but by the time you reach highway speed it felt like it gassed out. Mind you, I’ve never tracked any of these cars.

Kona N has been my favorite car so far. 276hp is legit and I think Hyundai underrated the power or the number is closer to whp cuz it really flies. I’m hoping to track it this summer and I can’t wait. Body and suspension is so stiff and responsive.

So yeah, I think imo, the sweet spot is like 250whp.

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froebull@reddit

The 200-ish hp in my 1980's pickup truck was not very impressive.

But if my formerly 70 hp Geo Metro suddenly had 200 hp? That actually would almost be too much. lol

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itsnottommy@reddit

My car makes exactly 200hp and it’s plenty fun. It’s all about handling for me.

If you’re chasing numbers on a spec sheet, no amount of horsepower will ever be enough.

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ChangingMonkfish@reddit

Depends on the car.

200hp in a big SUV - not so much.

200hp in a small, light roadster or hot-hatch - absolutely

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Imaginary_Ad_6352@reddit

My Triumph TR3 only had 100 hp and was a blast to drive. It's more fun to drive a slow car fast that a fast car slow.

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AlluEUNE@reddit

Doesn't matter. I often have more fun in cars with less power (and smaller price tag). Pushing it to the limit is what's fun to me. Not going 250km/h in a straight line or accelerating fast.

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otterland@reddit

I don't race on public roads. I drive like a responsible human. But I like to keep my old K24 Honda well maintained and I wind it out every time I take a ramp and enjoy what a nice noise the VTEC makes when it kicks in. It's well under 200 HP. When I get up to speed I set the cruise control and put on some jazzy music and try not to hit anybody.

It sounds like you need to find a car club and do a track day. Regular ass driving isn't about having your ass pushed into a seat, it's about not killing people.

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mmspider@reddit

There is no modern car that would be light enough for 200HP to feel enough. Even people over on the BRZ community want more power.

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No_Cut4338@reddit

One of the most fun times I've had was riding in my buddies 94 civic hatch 5 speed.

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Loosehead217@reddit

Going fast in a slow car > going slow in a fast car

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reidft@reddit

Yes, horsepower is only one metric that can contribute but isn't necessary. I have fun in my Probe and I think that thing makes like 80hp on a good day

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karmawillwinfolks@reddit

I put an R6 engine in a Kei truck. Talk about fun. That fucker riiiiips

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Good_Ad_1386@reddit

You can have fun in a 40bhp mk1 Mini. You can be bored shitless in a 200bhp SUV.

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tripleriser@reddit

I had an 07 base Impreza for a bit. With AWD, low power, and sticky tires, you could just flat foot it through anything in the canyons. The sticky tires were probably the most important factor but it was definition of "slow car fast". Then, when you're bored of the canyons, just slap on some snow tires and hit a rallyx. You don't need much power to have fun in gravel

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Alpha2277@reddit

I've owned several 4th Gen camaros, a few c5's, an s2000, and currently have a C6 vette. They were all fun cars for different reasons.

My c6 is by far the best performing car. My s2000 was the slowest by any metric, yet, I'd say the most fun. You could ring it out through the gears and not be doing 100+, which is where the fun can be on the street. My c6 is cool for a quick on-ramp burst, but beyond that you can't really use the power around town without being dangerous. Cruises very nice on the highway though loafing around in 6th gear.

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crazyindian@reddit

200hp is plenty to even get into trouble with in some cars. Boring AF in others. Power to weight ratio, steering feel and ratio, shifter feel, clutch feel, gear ratios/FDR, type of suspension... There is fun-to-drive DNA baked into certain cars (eg: 90s and 2000s Hondas) where even basic cars can be fun. Unfortunately now we seem to be looking for something just being manual or having a certain power to weight as being 'indicators' of engagement or fun when there is more to it.

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LankyJeep@reddit

You can have an absolute blast in a 100hp car just look at the old Austin Healy, MG’s and Triumphs, few of them even broke 100hp but all are a blast to drive. The original NA Miata topped out at 133HP, the Honda S2000 topped out at 237, so over 200 but still in the ballpark

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WildKarrdesEmporium@reddit

For fun cars, I've had everything from a Miata with a 116 HP 4 cylinder to an 850Ci with a 296 HP 12 cylinder.

The highest horsepower vehicle I've had is an Escalade with a 345 HP V8, and it is not a fun vehicle to drive.

Horsepower doesn't equal fun. My current daily is an '87 635CSi with a 182 HP 6 cylinder. It is not a fast car, but it handles great, looks great, and while not the most fun car I've ever owned, it is certainly fun to drive. More fun than my 296 HP 850Ci was.

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HuntGundown@reddit

Fiesta ST. 200 hp and the most fun car in existence

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therearenoroads1@reddit

22 civic hatch touring. I have fun in it daily and love the gas mileage

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Special-Audience-426@reddit

200 hp in a classic mini would be super fun.

200hp in a big heavy land yacht would be awful

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redditisahive2023@reddit

I had less than 90 hp in my 1984 crx. And it was a lot of fun.

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ohnomoto450@reddit

Nah, definitely need a motorcycle once you get that low /s

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Echo-RS@reddit

My dad’s Caterham makes 214whp, it’s pretty fun to drive.

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118545@reddit

I think you should learn to drive first, preferably from someone who knows how to drive. My kids took a real driving class. After a class on the physics of driving there was practice in a specially equipped car. Oversteer and understeer could be dialed in then the fun part was learning how to drive out of skids.

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Jubsz91@reddit

How many people driving Miatas report being sad?

I rest my case.

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Nemesis_Destiny@reddit

My mostly stock NB1 Miata makes 140hp and is the most fun I've had on 4 wheels. Light weight and sharp handling is the secret. Also, you can flog it on the streets and still be adjacent to the speed limit. It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

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RevolutionaryBeat301@reddit

200hp is plenty in a 2000 lb car. Once you get up to 2500 lbs, it’s acceptable, but not very fast. You would need a good chassis to make that feel fun.

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51onions@reddit

I'd say so. My sister has a hyundai i20n and that's a super fun car. That has 200 bhp, and weighs about 1200 kg.

I'd be tempted to get one, but I'm not willing to have a manual gearbox in my next car.

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AlphaDisconnect@reddit

My Toyota BZ4X has 220. It got squirrelly on me. Back end got loose. On a 4500lb car.

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hydra_dory@reddit

in a big SUV. No.
In a small miata. Probably yeah.
In a go kart, hell yeah...

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bandit1206@reddit

The 1977 Trans Am was rated at 185 hp. So I would say yes.

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macman7500@reddit

Those cars have a bunch of torque though. Feels different compared to a more modern 4 cylinder with the same go

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bandit1206@reddit

My Ecoboost Mustang has 350 ft/lbs of torque, the 77 trans am has 325 ft/lbs.

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UmatterWHENiMATTER@reddit

You need complete specs to understand.

What engine RPM does each make that torque?

Early will give you mucle car feel. Late will give you some push into the seat just before shifts.

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bandit1206@reddit

I’ve driven both. I also understand how to read torque curves.

The Mustang tops out on torque around 2400-2600 rpm

The trans am is around 2300-2400 rpm.

The odds of anyone noticing that difference is extremely low.

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pixel_loupe@reddit

a modern 4cyl is likely to have a turbo though so I wonder how it compares to something like a Honda 1.5t which makes about the same hp

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ThisCharmingDan99@reddit

Yea, my ‘81 Camaro is around that hp and hella fun.

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InfluenceEfficient77@reddit

If you want to have fun get a motorcycle, preferably a dirt ike. Fast cars only endanger pedestrians and bicyclists and other drivers

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Major_Enthusiasm1099@reddit

No but 100hp is enough

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Remarkable_Glass206@reddit

I've got a 2020 VW GTI with about 250hp and a 1969 VW beetle with 50-60hp. The beetle is infinitely more fun to drive. It's much more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

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midwestCD5@reddit

Handling, gearing, manual vs automatic, power to weight. How fun a car is depends on many factors.

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Brainfewd@reddit

My M52 swapped e30 wagon probably makes 150 wheel. Weighs around 2700-ish lbs would be my guess.

Good coilovers (not BC trash), sway bars, upgraded brakes, all new bushings, etc. Falken RT660’s.

Took the car on a 2500mi road trip to GA/NC/TN last year and spent two days shredding the mountains. The car absolutely eats corners. Hell I probably had another 150lbs of camping gear and a few spare parts with me too.

I owned a 440 wheel HP (dyno tuned) 135i/6speed. It was a blast and a rocket, but the e30 is WAY more fun to drive and significantly more raw and requires more attention.

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thefavoredsole@reddit

What kind of coilovers are you running? I always hear good things about BC. Ive never owned a set, but do appreciate that they are rebuildable.

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Brainfewd@reddit

They are fine, I’ve had them on other cars, but I run Fortune Auto 500 series now and they’re MUCH better. Daily ride quality is far superior, and the actual quality of the materials and such seems nicer. They load up very well with aggressive driving and are predictable in rebound and such (although maybe that’s more based on my setting choice).

My BC’s showed wear within a year, the Fortune’s look new three years later.

If BC is the budget, so be it. But I’m a Fortune Stan now and I truly think it’s worth saving the extra money for.

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Commercial_Song_7595@reddit

Driving a slow car fast is much more fun then driving a fast car slow, a close friend just bought an m8 competition… the thing is a beast but can’t open it up anywhere even freeway onramps literally 3 seconds and you’re not far away from jail time if you get picked up… so more ho isn’t always better

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jeepsies@reddit

Under 1200kg, manual, responsive inputs, breathes freely.

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OtterCreek_Andrew@reddit

For sure!

Let me give some background here. I own various cars at different power levels. 1350 HP, 700 HP, 500 HP and 240 HP. All those numbers are at the wheels on a dyno, not at the crank estimated.

The 240 is probably my favorite car to drive on a day to day basis and what I have the most FUN driving.

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Vecspeed129@reddit

Clearly a driver of an s2000 haha.

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OtterCreek_Andrew@reddit

E36 🤌🏻

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Unhappy-Midnight5469@reddit

If it weighs nothing, then yes. Something like a Miata pushing 200hp is actually kinda scary. It’s almost double its original output.

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No-Practice-8245@reddit

Yes, Miata’s and GR86s are fun af.

A lot of older lighter cars with thar power level are also fun like the old Civic SIs.

Signed a Cayman GT4 driver.

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TotosWolf@reddit

There's a thing called braking and cornering, you should try it

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mandatoryclutchpedal@reddit

Current Civic Si is only a slow, noisy car when other cars are around.

When you ignore stop light to stop light pissing matches and take on a nice windy road its pip squeak hamster wheel of an engine is just fine.

Power doesnt make a car fun. Driver does.

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K_R_A_K_E_N-540@reddit

At the right weight 200 HP is huge. An MX5 ND or Fiat 124 spider weigh 1000kg and it makes them feel MUCH faster than they have any right to be with their 180hp engines

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SkylineFTW97@reddit

I own a 2015 Honda Fit (130 HP, 2500 lbs, short geared 6 speed manual) and have a blast with it.

I also own a 1996 Mazda Miata (133 HP, 2300 lbs, short geared 5 speed manual) and have a blast with it as well.

Also had the chance to drive a friend's Honda Beat (63 HP, 1675 lbs, short geared 5 speed manual). While not really usable on US interstates, it's tremendous fun on back roads.

I think small, lightweight cars are underrated in terms of fun factor, even with minimal power.

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wisowski@reddit

My 2000 Miata has maybe 130hp? Not sure. Super fun. Have drive cars that pus you back I. Your seat which is great too. But this is still my favorite car to drive…all depends on what you prioritize.

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joenationwide@reddit

It depends on what you use the car for. True Driving fun comes from taking turns as fast as possible while in control. So it kind of makes HP irrelevant.

But there’s people out there that think they need a top of the line laptop when they only use Microsoft office applications.

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Organic-Algae-9438@reddit

I own a classic Mini who produced around 45 hp and it’s a lot of fun. It obviously depend on the weight of the car but yes, with 200 hp you can have a lot of fun in a car.

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Debonaircow88@reddit

My Mitsubishi lancer had 168 brand new and I have plenty of fun with it. Im not winning any races but oh well.

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Ok_Mail_1966@reddit

I have 60hp in my MG Midget and can tell you it’s great fun to drive, except on the highway looking up at the semi next to me that I can drive under the trailer if I wanted

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Unusual-Fix-825@reddit

Yes.

Ford Fiesta ST was what I had for years until recently. That thing was stock with 197hp and weighed I think 3200 lbs.

I never realized a car like that would be that much fun.

It was Lightweight, Nimble. Felt faster than it was, and would rev high with no problem. Torque would kick in low enough in RPM range when the turbo spooled up and always made it thrilling to drive.

Steering and feel was very responsive and the manual transmission made for the feeling of full control.

For me 200 hp is perfectly fine for a fun car. In my opinion, its all about the feel and responsiveness as a whole and not the horsepower.

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Wonderful_Junket_407@reddit

I’d rather drive a slow but balanced car fast, than a fast car and powerful car, slow. 200 in the right platform is every bit of fun, if not more.

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Beginning_Ad8663@reddit

Any VW with a 2.0 TSI makes right at 200 hp gofs are a. Blast to drive

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HalfBlindKing@reddit

Learning to control a car is fun as hell, and lower power makes it more accessible. At autocross, guys with 318i’s and Civic hatches were putting up better times than cars with twice the power.

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eeveep@reddit

I feel like the Fit RS is a really well kept secret as far as fun cars go.

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Diptothaset@reddit

Personally I’d rather go for a glass canon mana build. Low HP but high MP

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mamny83@reddit

On a DC2 integra type r yes.

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huh_say_what_now_@reddit

18 years ago I had a Nissan S13 q with a sr20de engine that made under 200hp and to get it sideways I just got the highest spring rate coiloves and a big rear sway bar and an lsd from a S13 k at the wreckers and every corner was exciting

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Stoltzy624@reddit

My 160hp 4th gen Honda Prelude was insanely fun to drive.

So is my 700whp GTR.

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JCDU@reddit

I will paste my answer from the "is 300hp enough?" thread:

55bhp and 1200lbs and you've got a giant-killing legend that is still ranked as the most fun you can have in a car:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini#Mark_I:_1959%E2%80%931967

Power means nothing, power-to-weight and handling are where it's at. Colin Chapman was right.

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Late-Button-6559@reddit

Depends on vehicle weight, and design intent.

But, possibly.

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Intrepid-Focus8198@reddit

I had a rover 114 Gti years ago and it was so much fun to drive.

Not fast compared to anything modern, but felt quick. They are pretty light which helps.

After having it for a while I did a stage 1 remap and stripped about 40kg out of it which made it a bit quicker.

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spagetttti@reddit

t-sport celica 190 hp is an amazing car to drive and less than 200 hp.

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Akward_Object@reddit

You want torque not HP to have fun...

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AbruptMango@reddit

The car's weight and drivetrain are more important. If the car doesn't resist being moved, it is likely to be fun no matter what the stopwatch says, and vice versa.

It's about driving. It really is more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow.

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Gold-Foot5312@reddit

I had a 230hp Ford Mondeo from I think 2010? It was a 3.0L petrol engine. That thing packed some serious power. Sure, it's no racer, but it was hella satisfying because it's well above the average horsepower on the road. Like, when a stereotypical BMW/Audi driver would try to accelerate past and be surprised I'm keeping up with them, then at the traffic light easily pull ahead of them. That is satisfying.

Now I have a 190hp 6-speed manual passat TDI. It works, but it's TDI, 2.0L with a turbo. Meaning there is no instant power from the engine unless I keep revs in the upper 2000s. It's still fun to drive, especially with good tires that grip good. Still above average than what's on the road. However, it's also noticable when the car is packed full with stuff for a trip for 2 grown-ups and 2 kids both 5 years old.

I don't have much experience in more powerful cars, since I don't have to money to play with them or buy them... But I can say that maybe the Passat is not a cornerning or speeding beast, but it's extremely predictable. The way it shifts between oversteer and understeer based on what you do, when the stability control kicks in, etc. Especially during winter, I have a lot of fun just sliding the backend around in corners and letting the stability control straighten it when I actually turn the steering wheel back. It's as if the engineers at VW thought "We still want it to be fun, so we'll give it some margin". The way it's set up allows me to change lanes literally by sliding sideways into the other lane.

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Wear-Simple@reddit

I have very fun in my 200hp Golf. Not Miata or Porsche fun. But fun anyway

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solxap@reddit

Sound makes a big difference too. And I don’t mean volume. Louder isn’t better. Sounding like a loud tractor or boat isn’t pleasing.

Intake can sound glorious and better than exhaust. For a while I had an E86 Z4M with the S54 engine (330hp). I put a carbon intake on it and that plus the high revving valvey inline 6 rowing through the gears was fantastic. Especially with the top down on a mountain road.

It wasn’t a drag racer. It wasn’t super torquey. But it was great for its purpose.

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thefavoredsole@reddit

The older I get, the more I enjoy the sound of the intake over the exhaust

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splashaddikt@reddit

Depends on the size of the car

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projectFirehive@reddit

I used to have good fun in my 70HP diesel Fiesta. Wasn't about the power, was about the feel. There was so little between me and the car. I could feel every gear change and the steering was super responsive. Felt so good to chuck it 'round corners.

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user_9780@reddit

Hp doesnt matter. I have maximum fun launching 50hp fiat panda on speed bumps.

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letsdocraic@reddit

GTE, heavier then the GTI but the extra low torque range gives you that launch feeling

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FourCats44@reddit

My Jag has 200 horsepower and I absolutely love driving it.

Honestly though the roads I drive on are windy country roads where you can barely get up to 60mph because they are so blind so the power doesn't matter that much.

For me it's much more about the feel, through the wheel and the seat. Driving fast in a straight line isn't as much fun as driving fast round a corner, so you want to feel the corner (or I do at least).

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Bread-fi@reddit

200HP is what my Clio RS has and the only car Ive kept for over a decade. The 170HP Pug 306 GTi-6 I had beforehand was equally fun.

https://youtu.be/Ae4RqTW5UDU?is=vKYPfGcNLA3zyXaO

https://youtu.be/9qCmwCnNeMA?is=q5CVOr9uLd2bt1u6

These are "wrong wheel drive" too, and I reach for my Clio over my 315HP AWD for fun (and to play e-peen the most powerful car I have experience with was about 750 hp).

~ 200 hp in a small, lightweight manual car is pretty sweet for on the road fun where you can use the whole engine - especially one that revs out decently.

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pdxhimbo@reddit

My Volvo 240 made 114hp when new, so significantly less now. Absolute blast to drive it, it’s all in the suspension and balance

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IdiotSerena@reddit

my coworkers's '85 Volvo 740 with a '95 740 engine and a bigger turbo makes 250 whp and is some of the most fun I've had in a car

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nixiebunny@reddit

My 544 was fun to drive with its original tired B18, but now it has a B20 which is like 20% cooler! Not that it’s a P1800 by any means.

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IdiotSerena@reddit

a Suki Cappuccino is loads of fun and it's got 66hp

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Admirable_Garlic_439@reddit

What do you think, mx-5 has <200hp and it's probably one of the most fun you can have on 4 wheels.

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bluejasper42@reddit

The funnest car I have had was a 1988 Chevy Sprint! 49 horsepower 1L manual and weight as much as a tin sardine can. It was a zippy awesome little car! I got it up to 140kph once too, amazing leg room for was it was and got insane fuel economy. 10/10 car for that stage of life.

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eggsovertlyeasy@reddit

Nope. 1000 minimum

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samcuu@reddit

That's how much hp the Civic Si has made for like 20 years.

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Fwd_fanatic@reddit

My 00 Celica is 180HP and 2500lbs with a full interior and AC with its 6 speed manual. Drop some weight and add suspension mods and it flies through corners. It’s not the fastest accelerating car, so you gotta keep up the momentum. But lightness makes that easier.

I’m aiming for a 10lbs or less per HP power to weight ratio with the current build. Sure it’s FWD, but it’s still fun to chuck around backroads, track days, and autocross.

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MEMExplorer@reddit

If it’s light enough with a stiff chassis , manual transmission and the right suspension setup . I had a Z3 coupe with a 2.8 straight six, 5 speed, sway bars, stiffer springs, staggered tires that was the most fun I’ve ever had driving a car , wanna say the stock horsepower was about 193 . Only performance mods i added was cold air intake and catback exhaust so i doubt it was pushing more than 200

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Sleep_Potential@reddit

Ford Fiesta ST is a clear example of it.

1.5L turbo, 201hp, 1300-ish kg.

I've had one for 4 years and a lot of fun with it. Wheels spinning changing from 2nd to 3rd gear, the quaiff diff doing marvels, 3 wheeling tight, fast corners, and somewhat decent acceleration.

80k km before selling, no issues whatsoever (even small) and maintenance done at a shop was about 300€.

One of the best pocket rocket I've had.

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Mean-Cheesecake-2635@reddit

I have a 2.4l Acura tlx with 206 and it is the most fun car I’ve ever owned. All wheel steering and an 8 speed dual clutch transmission with sport and sport plus mode plus vtec, it’s fun enough

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Vecspeed129@reddit

Yes.

A miata has 181 hp and it is universally viewed as the answer for most sports car enthusiasts.

An integra type r has 195 hp and was considered the best handling front wheel drive car in the world for many years.

The 986 boxster had 201 hp and was car of the year.

The mr2 turbo had 200hp and is absolutely a fun car.

The lotus Elise had about 190hp.

The 911 used to have around 180-200 hp in the early 1980s.

The e30 m3 had about 192 hp.

Note most of these cars are under 2800lbs and have a great power to weight ratio.

Get light car and learn how to drive a slow car fast and you will be extremely happy.

That said, 200hp is a great sweet spot for light cars.

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oldfartjr@reddit

Depends on the car. 200 HP in a Miata? Fun! 20O HP in a one ton dually? Not so much.

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PackIcy2106@reddit

For me it's handling. I have had fun in an 85 HP car, even passed a Nissan GT-R with it on track, lol.

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PowerSpool@reddit

I used to have a VW Rabit with the 5 cylinder I don't think it ever made 180 after mods but it was still one of the funnest cars I have ever driven. Kinda want another lol.

Like most say its power to weight but some cars overall are just fun. Ive driven plenty of stock manual Fits those are blast same with the Miata. I don't think either of those cars regardless of generation or even production trims make 200HP

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BudFox_LA@reddit

My mk6 GTI 6 spd was a blast, such a fun car even if FWD. I also had a ‘jalopnik edition’ 320i w a 6 speed. Both those cars 200hp, both cars very fun to drive. I’d rather drive a car at its limits than use 40% of what it’s got.

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macman7500@reddit

Is the new prelude a fun car? I don't think so

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RagingAnus69@reddit

The most important factor in whether a car will be fun to you is whether you enjoy driving it. I have had fun in cars with 80hp and I have had fun in Humvees, neither of those were very fast but damn did I have fun. I've had fun in police cars and fire trucks, too.

There are people who take fun too seriously and will only enjoy driving a supercar. There are whimsical people who will have fun putting a lawn mower engine in a minivan and trying to drive to the store. It's a spectrum, and it's all about where you fall on it.

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Simple-Ad-1783@reddit

200 hp is fun in a <2800 lbs car. Torque has be >200 lb-ft if it’s heavier. That’s my equation when I’ve not driven the car.

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Filthy510@reddit

60 is enough horsepower to have fun in a car. The car is a rusty tin can from japan, but you get my point... Probably not.

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ApoTHICCary@reddit

E30 checking in:

Yes.

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Upstairs-Object-6683@reddit

There is a YouTube where the host gets to drive a Karmann Ghia with an engine tweaked to 130 GP. He whips around twisty New England roads and has a wonderful time.

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unurbane@reddit

You need about 3300hp to get a thrill

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SevroAuShitTalker@reddit

My first car had 44 HP.

Still the most fun car ive owned

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LAM678@reddit

i drive a 50hp 3600lb car. it's fun as hell.

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Psychological_Money8@reddit

I think is fairly subjective.. But for me a fun car is basically: good engine/exhaust sound, decent horsepower and something that feels stable on corners. I have driven Miata/GR86 and they are actually quite fun! I think power to weight ratio matters a lot..along with suspension tuning. If a 200 hp car feels fast, sounds good and handles a corner well I think that would be the one I would go far! I also like lower seating position s but most sports cars already have those

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Cynyr36@reddit

Drivi6a slow car fast is more fun than driving a fast car slow. At sub 200hp you actually get to use full throttle.

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ber808@reddit

If youre doing drag or rolling racing more is almost always better, track you need a balanced car and drifting any amount is fun but more to a degree is safer and easier

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equitymans@reddit

Mass is far far far more important to a fun car than power. And it's not actually even close

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One_Evil_Monkey@reddit

I have an '01 Malibu LS. Stock it was 170hp. Weighs about 3400lbs.

I went through the 3100 V6 a number of years ago with some left over parts I had from when I still worked at a machine shop and it's around 200 or just over. Suspension is tuned and it's actually kinda fun with 200 or so HP considering it's just a 4dr sedan. It sticks the road pretty well too. I do however wish it had a 5spd though.

One car I had that was pretty fun was an '86 CR-X 5spd. Weighed like 1800lbs but only had about 100hp. Damn good fuel mileage too.

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SouthernDrama4895@reddit

No because it's slow

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fishloops23@reddit

I drive a 2013 Countryman s ALL4, tuned a bit. Only around 225 hp or so but its a lot of fun to throw in higher rpms + awd. Planing on coils and bracing for it handling > power honestly

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Everything_Breaks@reddit

200 hp in a Baja bug is a hoot!

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Novel_Economics5828@reddit

My RX8 is a ton of fun and the 8th gen civic SI I owned before it was a blast. A high reving engine with 200hp and under 3,000lbs is a riot.

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sacktikkla@reddit

Gearing and weight. A 3.91 diff in a e30 or e36 for example makes less than that and could feel like a rocket in forward gears until you start to top out.

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davedavebobave13@reddit

I had a first gen BRZ. 200 hp and hilarious to drive. Made me smile every time. Only sold it because it was parked for a year during Covid and no one in my family would ride with me anymore.

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TeamFoulmouth@reddit

Most of my cars growing up were huge Lead Sleds with under 200HP...I had a ton of fun, and got in plenty of trouble. My best stories come from a '77 Plymouth Fury w/ a 318.

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GolfandSales@reddit

S2K is close to 200 wheel. I’ll let you figure out the answer from there.

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SpeedyHAM79@reddit

200 HP can be enough to have fun in a car. First- you need to define "Fun". 200 hp isn't going to push you back in the seat unless it's a lightweight formula racing car. 400 hp in my awd 2000 lb racing car with slicks pulled 1g in straight line acceleration (it wasn't built for straight lines). For me fun comes from cornering and balance much more than forward acceleration. Not just steady state cornering, but sharp, predictable handling through series of corners. Good balance and control under braking is also very important. Basically- if it has to be 200 HP or under for a fun car and road legal, I want a 1972 Porsche 911 (190hp) or a Miata.

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Canelosaurio@reddit

07 Civic Si Coupe owner checking in. Arguably the best FWD chassis ever. Toss-up between it and the DC5 chassis.

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builder704@reddit

If it’s light enough

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Tia_Faux@reddit

My gr86 is very fun. Only has 200hp

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inphinitfx@reddit

It depends on the rest of the vehicle. 200hp in an oversized tank, is gonna be slow. 200hp in a roadster or hot hatch can be fun.

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BJoe1976@reddit

I had 2 Turbo K-Cars, a 4dr hatch Lebaron and a 3dr hatch Shadow, both ere edited for around 146hp and had fun with those, but both were also under 3000lbs, so that helps a lot.

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CompetitiveLab2056@reddit

To me a fun car is a different car: or a car with a raw feel.

It doesn’t have to have power for me to like it. I like turning heads and getting complements: I like taking an old car and daily driving it to prove old cars were just as reliable as a modern car. My currently daily driver an 88 Firebird doesn’t even make enough power to get out of its own way: it’s a gutless turd: but strangers come up and talk to me about it, I get thumbs up all the time while driving: people in newer junk try to get me to engage in races with them. And I love the raw feel of the drive it gives me

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Hersbird@reddit

My 1998 Neon 5 speed was only 150 hp and lots of fun. Meanwhile a new 420 hp Suburban is no fun at all.

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Raivnholm@reddit

Absolutely. I've had both a 9th gen Civic Si and 5th gen Prelude that were both right around 200hp. Neither of them were particularly light either, but good suspension and a manual transmission make those cars feel great on the track or twisty mountain roads.

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south-of-the-river@reddit

I have a stock 1UZFE that I put in a NA mx5. Makes 220whp, 400nm. It’s a riot to drive.

It’s not a lambo killer like all the YouTube builds, but it’s a fantastic usable amount of power.

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WillieMakeit77@reddit

Only if you don’t mind being on the slower side of life.

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Trogasarus@reddit

Kswapped fit or miata (you can kswap that too)

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doc_55lk@reddit

It's not most people's idea of fun but I thoroughly enjoy every single drive I have in my old E Class. It made 221 hp when it was fresh outta the factory and since it's 23 years old now I'm fairly sure it's making a little bit less than that.

It's still amazing to drive and it still hauls all sorts of ass when. I need it to. Oh, and I can get the rears to spin as well. Not very difficult even on dry pavement.

Hp doesn't matter all that much tbh. Weight and power delivery do. You want to feel the movement around you.

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SurlyJohn009@reddit

Power to weight ratio is what you are looking for. My 1990 Toyota Corolla GTS was 118 HP, but so light it was a very fast great handling car. Very fun, I got in a ton of trouble.

Now I drive an Acura TLX A-spec Awd with 295 HP. It is fun also, but so nose heavy. Compared, the lighter Toyota was more fun for me.

200 hp can be great fun in the right vehicle, depends upon the weight and the suspension setup.

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DogblackMichigan@reddit

Chevy Bolt is 200 hp.

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margosobet@reddit

Is fine if thats all you've experienced. but once you feel 4,5,6 hundo its hard to go back. or car has to be insanely light

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Thin-Tax7836@reddit

Hell yeah

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Impressive-Repair879@reddit

Depends on what you find fun. If you mainly enjoy doing highway pulls with 5.0 mustangs and scat packs it won’t be that much fun. My stock fiesta st is fun around town as it makes around 220wtq and that torque hits hard around 2500rpms. It’s a lot of fun on backroads because it only weighs 2700lbs and handles like a go kart.

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