‘E-bikes and e-scooters are here to stay’: Olathe’s new plan to keep riders and pedestrians safe
Posted by paxtana@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 37 comments
ornithobiography@reddit
tl;dw:
- Updating the rules: Define 3 class of ebikes. 16+ only for Class 3 Ebikes. Allowed to be riden on 40 MPH Speed Limit Roads, and required to slow down to 15 MPH on sidewalks.
- E-scooters, E-skateboards & similar devices has new name in the lawbook: Micromobility Devices. Allowed on sidewalks, paths and trails as long as max speed limit is 30 MPH under. On sidewalk speed limit is the same as eBikes - under 15 mph.
- Anyone under 18s has to wear a helmet.
- This proposal aligns with State regulations, but further expands where the devices can be operated. Safety is still priority.
This is still proposal, will be raised in the next city meeting.
theatrenearyou@reddit
Riding on sidewalks is fecking nuts. WHY? I'm in San Francisco where only under 12 yr olds are allowed on sidewalks on acoustic bikes
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
Most of the world doesn't look like San Francisco. There are places where sidewalks are sparsely used by pedestrians and can be safely shared. And where a studio apartment doesn't cost $5k per month. It's crazy to contemplate, I know.
theatrenearyou@reddit
Good Lord, you dont have to be catty.
Show me the sidewalk and streets and I may agree with you. Cogent arguments can be made without attacking the person instead of the argument.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
That wasn't catty. And I did attack the argument, not you.
I don't particularly care if you agree with me or not. It's obvious to others.
You are the one declaring anyone riding on a sidewalk to be "fecking nuts". That seems far more of a personal attack than anything I stated.
theatrenearyou@reddit
NOT TRUE. Clearly, I criticized the LEGISLATION allowing bikes alongside people walking (or rolling via wheelchairs).
How can you think ebikes or speeding bicycles dont pose a danger? They hit and kill people. Ever hear of a fast jogger running someone over? No you didnt.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
You know anyone can scroll up and read your comment, right?
If the legislation is "fecking nuts" to allow bikes on sidewalks, it immediately follows that someone riding a bike on said sidewalk is also "fecking nuts".
I have fast joggers damn near run me over around corners because of idiotic trail policies that instruct pedestrians to keep left.
theatrenearyou@reddit
Wrong again. "It does not follow" at all. LEGISLATION is legal language----words crafted and passed into law to achieve some purpose.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
Yeah most of us know what legislation is. It doesn't refute what I said in the least.
Let me get you a pack of straws and save you some effort.
theatrenearyou@reddit
You're really looking to find victimhood from two words instead of focusing on the safety issue I raised of 15mph machines mixed with 2.5mph humans. That was my entire point. Last response from me. Done with your juvenile back-biting.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
Indeed we are done. You refuse to accept any accountability for your own words and attack others for calling you out.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
You said "riding on sidewalks is fecking nuts".
No allusion to legislation. Clearly you are making crap up and in denial.
BoringBob84@reddit
I am willing to bet that San Francisco has much more bicycle infrastructure than Olathe, Kansas. In some places that lack infrastructure, the sidewalk is the only safe (relatively) option.
theatrenearyou@reddit
SF's sightlines problem is building built close to corners limiting visibility with so many cars passing through. Smaller towns are safer. Fewer car means fewer collisions.
SenorFluffy@reddit
For context, Olathe, KS is a suburb of Kansas City which has very few bike lanes. Walking or bike in KC suburbs frankly sucks and forcing everyone on to the street is much more dangerous as their streets are extremely wide and fast -- in contrast to a place like SF.
Allowing bike/scooters on the sidewalk but with a lower speed limit (15 mph) seems like a reasonable compromise to me. It'd be great if there was safer streets and more bike lanes to allow for safe riding, but that's not the way it is in Olathe. Even in a place where I live like Seattle where the bike infrastructure is amazing (for a US city), it is legal to ride on the sidewalks which is especially useful for staying safe in South Seattle where there are few bike lanes and wide/fast streets
SnuffyMcfluff@reddit
15 is way too fast for a sidewalk, especially if pedestrians are present or the sidewalk crosses driveways and parking area entrances. There is no way drivers crossing the sidewalk can plan for that sort of speed and 15 is dangerous for pedestrians.
This is going to get some people killed.
BoringBob84@reddit
15 would be the maximum - as in, you will get a ticket if you exceed that speed, no matter how clear the sight lines are on the sidewalk.
I try to avoid sidewalks, but when I cannot, I only ride that fast on long straight stretches with good visibility, no driveways, and no pedestrians. Otherwise, I stay well below 10 MPH.
SnuffyMcfluff@reddit
I get that it is the maximum and it is way too high. Imagine backing out of your driveway. You look at the sidewalk and you see what appears to be a pedestrian. You believe you have plenty of time and you proceed. You then hit a kid on a skateboard that was going 15 because they arrived much faster than you could have anticipated.
The type of accident I just described is incredibly common with bicycles, it will be worse with less visible fast moving devices.
The legislation overall is decent, but the sidewalk speed is a really terrible idea.
BoringBob84@reddit
I hear you. First, I never back out of my driveway for that reason. I watched a kid on a bicycle T-bone my neighbor's car that way. I always back in, when I have a good view.
Secondly, when I ride on sidewalks (rarely), I make sure that no cars are popping in or out of every driveway - even if I have to slow down to a crawl to see around a blind corner.
I consider this the price of safety.
SnuffyMcfluff@reddit
What you do is not relevant. We are talking about bad legislation that has to account for what most people do.
BoringBob84@reddit
You call it "bad legislation." I call it "balance."
I think that 10 MPH would be more prudent around pedestrians and frequent driveways, but not all sidewalks are like that, especially in the Midwest.
SnuffyMcfluff@reddit
15 mph on sidewalks isn't balance. It's blatantly dangerous. I have worked with bicycle advocacy groups and looked at accident types and causes. Fast moving objects on sidewalks lead to a significant number of injuries and fatalities. You don't base legislation on "not all" you base it on common situations and their potential outcomes. The rest of the legislation is fine, but the sidewalk speed is way too high.
theatrenearyou@reddit
Thx for replying. I am aware locality matters. In traditional American towns, there's a concrete sidewalk then some measure of a grassy strip bounded by curbs or curbing and then the street itself. But the way of America from about 1900 until the 1980s when subdivisions eliminated the sidewalks and had streets with nowhere to walk other than the gutters on the side of the road meant for rain.
One thing everyone is missing about bikes is their SILENCE. We hear cars going by---their engines and tires make noise that alerts us they are near. Contrast that to a bicycle that can be suddenly behind you without warning---that's why I argue bikes shouldnt be on sidewalks and if they are, speed should certainly be lower than 15mph.
Pedestrians walk speed averages 2.5 mph!
15mph for bikes is ill-advised.
Serdones@reddit
I mean, yeah, but laws usually put the onus on the bicyclist to pass safely. Whether on a mixed-use trail or a sidewalk, my city just requires that you announce yourself, i.e. "on your left" or ring your bell.
Sure, sometimes they have earbuds in and they don't hear, but that's why you also slow down and wait until they acknowledge you. I've never had someone not eventually realize I was there and move out of the way, even if it took me getting right up behind them/to their left until they see me in their periphery.
Sharing these spaces does incur extra risk, but these are scenarios that generally play out with minimal friction in the real world.
m2keo@reddit
Try being in Texas(suburbs specifically) without the option to ride on sidewalks. You're not gonna last a day trying to ride on those roads bro.
CerebralAccountant@reddit
The average sidewalk in Olathe (example) is more like a mixed-use path. In some cases, it's less unsafe to ride on the sidewalk, like on this 45 mph street where ebikes will be prohibited under the new rules.
Dook23@reddit
That all depends on the area you reside. In my county bikes are allowed on all sidewalks with the exception of the downtown area of one city.
SnuffyMcfluff@reddit
15mph is way too fast for a sidewalk where peds are present.
lFightForTheUsers@reddit
It's still better than unlimited as it currently is. For a narrow 3 foot width of mixed space pathing yes I can agree but it is a start.
rvralph803@reddit
Wait... Ok to ride on 40mph roads? They were already ok to ride on any non restricted roadway (like some divided highways).
That is more restrictive than non motorized bikes.
lFightForTheUsers@reddit
Yeah this is maybe the only part of it that I don't like, if it limits freedom of travel for bikes.
IMO a bike should be able to go anywhere a car can go, with very limited exceptions. The only said exception I can think of is highway main lanes where cars are often going 60+ mph as it is, but even on those roads the frontage surface roads that run alongside at slower 45mph should be fair game. Not always the most pleasant to ride on, but fair game.
If there is a safer route nearby to take, then obviously that should be taken. If there is not though, then it's just limiting freedom of travel and that should never be hindered.
But that all said, I completely agree with the rest and the rest seems very reasonable. Basically 16+ hard age limit for class 3 speeds and helmet law for minors. Everyone should be wearing one IMO because it will hurt very badly and possibly unrecoverably if you fall when riding, but at the minimum these legal changes seem pretty good.
SadisticPawz@reddit
Holy shit? Reasonable rules?
powerstroke01@reddit
That's actually reasonable.
Travyplx@reddit
Sidewalk legislation is always a step backwards.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
I would hope the restriction against ebikes on roads with 45mph or higher speed limits doesn't apply to bike lanes, or else said bike lanes essentially become useless and that forces sidewalks as the only option (sidewalks are definitely a safer option, but might be too cramped in some cases, so ideally you'd have two places to ride).
SnuffyMcfluff@reddit
15 mph on sidewalks is a really bad idea. This must be revisited.
tracebusta@reddit
These are very sensible rules. Now it'll just be about enforcement, let's see how that goes.