Is the gap between the flagship public university and the other public universities quiet large in most states?

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Apprehensive-Fig3223@reddit

Mostly agreed, a lot of them have 2, one usually was historically an agricultural or tech school that evolved into being engineeringvor science focused. The more populated ones have more major/ "research" universities but there's still a tier/ specialty aspect. PA has Pitt, Temple, and PSU and each has specialties over the others. CA is especially full of this variety and hierarchies.

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Cornwallis400@reddit

OP some states have multiple excellent public universities (California, Virginia, Georgia, North Carolina, Texas, Michigan, etc…) and some don’t (Wyoming, West Virginia, South Carolina, Connecticut, etc…)

LoiusLepic@reddit (OP)

U Shitigan and Shitigan State, etc.

😂

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Adorable-East-2276@reddit

This is going to vastly depend on the state. There are some states, like Arizona, California, Kansas, or Oregon, where there’s really no gap at all.

There are some, like Louisiana, Washington, or Pennsylvania where the gap is huge.

Lots of states have an engineering school as their second school, which could have a better reputation within its key fields (Georgia, Virginia, debatably Texas).

And hell, you have Wyoming which doesn’t have a second school at all.

So unfortunately, no real rule

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PurpleSandwich3252@reddit

Lots of states have a second tier of state schools the average person outside of the state has only vaguely heard of.

For example in Kansas: The two big schools (KU and K-State) are pretty similar prestige-wise, the difference is really in what programs they do best and school culture. Then you have Wichita State, which is like 1B. Below that there are several state schools that aren’t notable other than being a good regional option for the far reaches of the state if someone can’t move all the way to Manhattan, Wichita or Lawrence or want a much smaller campus.

Nebraska and Missouri are similarly structured but with only 1 major, public university. They each have a great private school as well, though.

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No-Conversation1940@reddit

The Missouri thing is a source of regional tension because Missouri State has 25,000 students but had to fight every step of the way to become something other than a teacher's college. The name change from Southwest Missouri State took almost 20 years.

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AZJHawk@reddit

As a proud Jayhawk, I’d disagree. I think KU is quite a bit better in a lot of fields than K-State, and I think the other state universities are several tiers below both of them.

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TxSir@reddit

Definitely not Texas. UT is the flagship, with the top engineering program. A&M is good in some areas. Rice is good but very small.

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velociraptorfarmer@reddit

Iowa is another example where the two (technically 3 under the same Board of Regents) schools have different specialties.

The University of Iowa is the flagship, that specializes in a top notch med program, law, and one of the best journalism programs, while

Iowa State University is an enormous land grant school with arguably the best agriculture program on the planet, a top 5 veterinary medicine program, and a very good engineering program.

U of I has no agriculture program and a limited engineering program, while ISU has no med school or law school.

There's also Northern Iowa under the same umbrella that specializes in education.

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SabresBills69@reddit

many of the smaller states concentrate programs between 2-3 state schools based on majors/ fields.

Kansas has a different system. Kansas university is a separate system from the rest of the state colleges and universities. they have KU and K stste thrn you have other state places that are under different names

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decdash@reddit

I could say as a UVA grad there’s truth to this. UVA obviously has a much more prestigious reputation than Virginia Tech, but if you want to do engineering there is a very valid argument to go with Tech over UVA. Anything else you’re obviously better off with UVA. I was fully humanities all the way through so someone else could speak to the specifics of the engineering stuff better than me, but from a broad perspective that’s a good take

Thanks for the answer. I get the perception and more people valuing UW strong suits. I’m from eastern Washington and find huge value in agriculture/vet.

I am a husky fan though 🤣

Also, I don’t know if it’s still true, but UW used to get TONS of grant money. I think it was second most of any school in the nation behind Oklahoma.

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Seanb354@reddit

There’s no such thing as a “flagship” campus of SUNY. It’s just something that the governor has said. It’s not official.

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karmapuhlease@reddit

Binghamton and Stony Brook are the "best" state schools (unless you count Cornell), and are highly desirable. But the official "flagships" are actually Stony Brook and Buffalo, for funding purposes and size.

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Seanb354@reddit

There are no “flagship” SUNY campuses. It’s just something that the governor said. It’s not official, it’s not something anyone in SUNY ever talks about…

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Eudaimonics@reddit

Binghamton got the raw end of the stick for sure considering historically it’s been the top performing SUNY school (though UB and SBU aren’t far behind).

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karmapuhlease@reddit

Stony Brook is pretty much NYC.

Huh? I grew up near there and it most certainly is not!

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Eudaimonics@reddit

It’s in the NYC metropolitan area like 80% of the student body is from NYC and Long Island.

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Act1_Scene2@reddit

It’s part of SUNY because they needed a large university close to NYC.

But NYC has 11 CUNY colleges plus 7 community colleges. "They" don't need a large university close to NYC. Hunter College and Baruch College have over 16,000 undergrads, pretty close to SBU's 19,000 and the entire CUNY system has over 200,000 students.

SBU is part of SUNY because "they" wanted a public college out on Long Island to serve the post WW2 population influx. SBU moved to Stony Brook in 1962 (from Oyster Bay). 45% of the students reside in Nassau or Suffolk counties and 25% come from NYC.

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Eudaimonics@reddit

Yeah, but Hunter and Baruch aren’t traditional research intensive universities and don’t feature strong athletic programs. They’re also more of a collection of buildings than a campus.

Stony Brook fills those needs.

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Eudaimonics@reddit

SUNY has 2 official flagship schools, University at Buffalo and Stony Brook.

Private colleges aren’t flagships even if they’re ranked higher. They’re not part of a larger system.

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New_York_or_nowhere@reddit

FIT is probably the most famous and highly regarded SUNY school. Binghamton is considered the most prestigious SUNY for more general studies in my experience but I agree it's not a flagship in the same sense as Cal or UCLA.

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WillThereBeSnacks13@reddit

Within NYC Hunter is probably the top regarded CUNY, but outside the region it would not matter. For design, Pratt or FIT are pretty well regarded.

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cruzecontroll@reddit

Really I always thought it was CCNY. Hunter was more niche for teaching and nursing and Baruch for business.

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Eudaimonics@reddit

Nah, New York is the prime example of this.

Huge gap between the large research universities (Buffalo, Binghamton and Stony Brook) and the local/regional colleges (Fredonia, Cortland, Brockport).

Same with CUNY with Baruch and Hunters being much higher rated than any other school.

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Brave_Speaker_8336@reddit

The fact that you named 3 large research universities is a clear example of why NY is NOT an example of this. Many states have a single flagship that is clearly better than any other public university in the state

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SabresBills69@reddit

UB has the medical school. it has a law school.it has many PhD programs

Brave_Speaker_8336@reddit

In terms of like enjoyability perhaps, but for academics, no way. Berkeley is known globally as one of the top universities in the entire world, while UCLA is just another good US university

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Drew707@reddit

I think the gap is much smaller than that. US News and Review currently has Berkeley at #15, but UCLA next tied with Rice and Vanderbilt at #17.

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Brave_Speaker_8336@reddit

USN undergrad ranking focuses on the overall undergrad experience and not specifically academics. Global rankings typically are more focused on pure academics, and Berkeley is typically at/near the very top with peers like Stanford and Harvard.

So like for choosing your undergrad it totally can make sense to pick UCLA, but in terms of what a flagship should represent, Berkeley is #1 by far

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SabresBills69@reddit

in many state schools — visibility doesn’t exist because of school naming.

in Virginia have univ of Virginia and Virginia tech ( these have secondary campuses)….but those aren’t the only state schools…….beorge mason ( northern virginia), James Madison ( Harrisonburg), old dominion ( Norfolk, VCU ( richmond).

in Washington you have wash dt and univ of Washington. You also have eastern Washington is Spokane, center al Washington in ellensburg, western Washington in Bellingham, evergreen in Olympia

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NoForm5443@reddit

Yeah, sometimes flagship just means bigger, older, or the one with a better football team :)

I'd say UGA and GaTech are both flagships in GA (and I think several states have something similar). I'm biased, since I'm a techie, but I'd say GaTech is better than UGA at everything academically related.

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royalhawk345@reddit

Yeah, as an outside observer, GT has much more cachet than UGA, which is mostly viewed as a football school, though I'm sure its academics are perfectly fine.

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kingoflint282@reddit

As a UGA Grad, I will concede that Tech is overall stronger academically, but I think it’s no longer true that Tech is better in everything. STEM fields are generally better at Tech. But the business schools for example are very similarly ranked with Terry being a spot or two ahead of late. For political science/public international Affairs, UGA is ranked better (5th vs 47th).

The academic gap between the two used to be much bigger and UGA was just the big state party school, but that’s changing.

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mattcmoore@reddit

It has to do with how much money the state provisions the school. Georgia Tech gets way more state funding so if Georgia had only 1 flagship it would be GT not UGA.

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Prechrchet@reddit

Better at most science and engineering related fields, I tend to agree. In terms of Education, Business, Medicine, and probably a few others, not necessarily. :)

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gtne91@reddit

Well, GT doesnt gace education or medicine or any BA degrees, so the comparison to null is questionable. As far as business, isnt GT's MBA program ranked (slightly) higher?

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JimBeam823@reddit

GT is better at what GT does, but GT doesn't do much besides engineering and science, with a little bit of business.

Georgia politics kept GT and Georgia State separate when they would have been one school in many other states. A single school would have been more academically diverse and less prestigious.

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Thhe_Shakes@reddit

Yeah so it seems like as per another users comment

Many states have two flagships. One is the “land grant” university that focuses more on engineering and agriculture, while the other is the so-called doctors and lawyers school. Examples include Purdue and Indiana, Florida State and Florida, Auburn and Alabama, Texas A&M and Texas. Georgia Tech and Georgia, U Mich and Michigan State, etc.

- Northern Arizona University (26k students on campus)

Often different campuses specialize in different things. In my state, there is a flagship, but the number 2 is close and where most of the engineering and agriculture students go. The third specializes in K-12 teacher training and for some reason has a really good accounting program.

As you note, every state is different, but it used to be a fairly common model that one campus was sort of focused on future teachers, and even though that's less explicit now, that relationship tends to persist.

Beyond that, it is common for a lot of the non flagship campuses to be smaller, and some students will opt for that even if they could get in to the flagship. I took micro economics at a state flagship with 1200 students. I teach at a smaller state school now and my biggest class ever was 50 students and normally is 35. It's just a different vibe

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Loud_Inspector_9782@reddit

The top state Universities often have outstanding grad programs. Also, being older they have more prestige which makes more students want to go there. They are allowed to be pickier on who they admit.

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Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit

Most state universities have an acceptance rate around 90%. You happened to pick two that are more selective.

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LoiusLepic@reddit (OP)

Here in Connecticut, there's undoubtedly a huge gap, and everyone knows it. If you can't get into UConn, then the other 4-year schools are little better than the community colleges.

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nine_of_swords@reddit

Alabama not only has two flagship systems, but UAB also tends to rank higher academically than flagship Alabama in that system. Granted, part of that lower ranking is probably due to universities in the state not going the exclusive route to raise rank and more focus on enrollment expansion (Not just AU and UA schools, but directional schools, HBCUs and the like). Alabama, taking advantage of college football success, definitely got a big boost in that regard over other in state schools but would likewise take a stronger hit in the rankings.

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shammy_dammy@reddit

Lived in Wisconsin for decades, and even Madison for a few years. My kids both attended non flagship sites of the UW system. While UW Madison is definitely more prestigious, and even necessary for some degree plans, the other full locations are perfectly valid....and quite a bit cheaper.

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FrenchFreedom888@reddit

Man Wisconsin is so weird with their universities, imo. I understand how it works, and it is arguably more efficient, but it feels so weird to have just one flagship university campus and every other campus be a satellite of that flagship.

I'm from Oklahoma, and we have two parallel university systems that each have a flagship campus and their own satellites in different areas, with different focuses. We also have several regional universities which are a third, separate university system

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shammy_dammy@reddit

Well, there's always Marquette, which is private. And Wisconsin has reciprocity with Minnesota, so Minnesota state universities are considered in state for Wisconsin residents.

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SabresBills69@reddit

Washington state in pullman and univ of Idaho in Moscow are reciprocity schools. they are about a 10 min drive apart with buses connecting them, students at one can take classes at the other for credit. there is coordinated department in class offering knowing they can pool students making large enough for classes in majors.

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velociraptorfarmer@reddit

The notorious one is that if you want to do engineering, you go to UW-Platteville instead of Madison.

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Yes, in many states there are tiers to public schools. I can speak for the three states I know most about: Illinois, Wisconsin, and Massachusetts. All three have a best state school (UIUC, UW-Madison, and UMass Amherst) and a lot of less prestigious affiliated schools (I say this as someone who attends UIC, a lower-ranked UI school).

However, even if ranks are poorer outside the flagship, they’re often way cheaper at the undergrad level. Even as out-of-staters, Illinois residents get free tuition at all UW schools, except for Madison.

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LoiusLepic@reddit (OP)

UW schools, except for Madison.

Why is this?

I actually studied in Madison and met a fair few people from Illinois most of them who were studying computer science or other technical degrees because UIUC is extremely competitive to get into for them.

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Insert_Name_Here__1@reddit

UW-Madison is a massive school compared to the rest of the UW system. It enrolls over 50k students, while the average for the rest (outside of Milwaukee and Green Bay) is around 8k. Operating costs in Madison are also high due to the geography of the city (being on a isthmus doesn't help logistics) and the vast amount of facilities they manage.

For some comparison, I recently graduated from UW-Whitewater, where the cost per year was around $14k with housing. Compare that to UW-Madison, where the same situation will cost you $30k. Its just not economically viable in the State Legislature's and UW System's view to offer reduced rates to out of state students.

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LoiusLepic@reddit (OP)

Interesting, thank you.

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alwaysboopthesnoot@reddit

Where I live? Yes. Pretty much. Harvard is very different in price and quality than say UMass, for most programs of study. Not for everything.

There is a separate system for technical schools and community colleges called the Technical College System of Georgia, and those schools will have a drop in quality, both in student ability and in the instructors themselves. The community colleges offer more vocational based training, but also proper college degrees.

Many students who don't get into their first choice of university will opt to attend the local technical college for a few years and then transfer to a state university once they have picked a major degree.

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It may not be a popular idea on reddit, but having a good school on your resume, even if it isn’t top 10, can have a big impact on your life and career decades later.

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throw20190820202020@reddit

As a recruiter, I will say every time I’ve said that, it’s about either the specific program - which may be what a school is known for, like OP says regarding some universities - or because someone up the hiring chain went to the same school. And this only matters for more early career people, once you’re mid level and above it’s about your career.

Of course Ivy League networking is invaluable, and there are always specific universities, Greek organizations, etc. with special value to some people, and some careers are rigid - but for the most part, don’t sweat where you go. I know successful CEOs who did two year transfers from community college to commuter schools. Location is probably the number one factor for 90% of us.

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SabresBills69@reddit

I agree goingbto Ivy League , Stanford, MIT and about 20 others can get you a chance through alumni organizations and university name recognition. but that affects a small % of the college graduating population. bigger factors are interns at name places.

yes once you are in a career, what your experience in matters than your degree.

yes some universities are known for specific programs like 1 of 5 in the country who offer a BS or MS in X can get you places in that field.

gradate school selection matter more in phD/ professor/ research related jobs in fields. You do your PhD under an established professor in the field you are going to get job offers a lot easier.

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DoubleBreastedBerb@reddit

Yeah, really the networking at those schools is what really counts.

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nakedonmygoat@reddit

This is an underrated comment. When I worked in recruitment, it wasn't at all unusual to see a hiring manager choose the candidate who graduated from their own alma mater, assuming all other qualifications were similar when it came down to the final candidates.

royalhawk345@reddit

I went to a top accounting school (not for accounting, though) and I can't compare it to others, but I definitely knew a lot of people who went big 4, they had a huge presence on campus. Granted, a lot of those people hated it and left, but having KPMG or Deloitte as their first job out of college probably didn't hurt their resume.

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ThirdSunRising@reddit

Really depends on the state. For example, what's the "flagship" university in California? Is it Berkeley? Stanford? UCLA?

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RancidMeatKing@reddit

Berkeley easily.

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AUCE05@reddit

Yes. Alumni will look after their own

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CH11DW@reddit

Academic reputation doesn’t necessarily go down, in fact it might go up if the other school is a private school. Or if the flagship school has a party reputation. The “flagship” school, which I’m assuming you define as “The University of (State’s name” is usually has a good reputation and is usually the biggest. But no always, look at Ohio State. Look at my state of Texas. Sure we got UT (Texas), but also popular are Texas Tech, Baylor (private), TCU (private), SMU (private), UNT, Texas A&M, Rice (private) all have students who graduated near the top of high school class attending. There’s even lots of smaller universities that due to the size and might not be much on sports scene (if at all) that aren’t as well know, but can still have really good reputations with the people that do know them.

Just like are students from outside the state attending these schools, there is also Texans who attend schools outside the state. There’s even lots reasons vary, but a really good particular program in a specific degree is usually the top reasons. Also, use to live there, or have family or friends there. Or my parents went there can be lesser but still common reasons.

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iamStanhousen@reddit

Louisiana is one of those. Engineering at LA Tech is definitely a thing that draws students there, but outside of that, if you aren't going to LSU, you're just trying to save money by going anywhere else public.

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LoiusLepic@reddit (OP)

Or if they just don't get in i guess?

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But of the people who apply, it's mostly going to be people with good grades in high school right? Like Someone with a lower gpa isn't gonna bother applying

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Tired_CollegeStudent@reddit

“Flagship” in this case almost always just means it’s the largest and/or oldest university in the system. It doesn’t automatically mean it’s harder to get into.

Many large public universities trace their establishment to the Morril Land-Grant Acts (variously passed from the 1860s to the end of the century) which provided federal support to state so that they could establish universities focused on (but not dedicated to) agriculture and mechanicals studies. Many (but not all) of those institutions grew to be the largest research universities in the state, which became the flagship for the system. The University of Vermont, University of Arizona, University of Minnesota, Ohio State, and the University of Wisconsin-Madison are examples of this.

In other states a different university grew to be the flagship of the system, and others still have two separate systems, but at the end of the day, “flagship” is a title accorded based on size and/or history, not automatically based on acceptance rate.

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SabresBills69@reddit

that statement is false…..

many state universities are equal in education. the difference lies in graduate/ research work. you might have 6 stsate universities but only 1 has the medical school, a different one has the law school. one is really strong in engineering masters programs, those in cities have education and social work masters programs. General phD prohpgrams might be limited to just 2 universities.

the Country is divided into 3-4 regions where secondary state universities have a scholarship program where out of state students can get in stste tuition rates. The name university schools don’t participate in these, it’s usually the secondary state colleges that do.

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jvc1011@reddit

No.

Any UC will give you an amazing education, even though UCLA and Cal are the most competitive to get into.

dgmilo8085@reddit

The faculty won 2 just this year.

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Lallner@reddit

UC Santa Barbara (UCSB): Renowned for its research impact in physics and oceanography.

With notable exceptions for some programs at the Cal Polys.

And probably some top students do go with a local CSU for budget or personal reasons, but my impression is that's actually pretty rare. It's much more common, if you're trying to save money or stay closer to family, to do two years at a community college and then transfer into UC.

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royalhawk345@reddit

California is a pretty big exception with multiple top-tier universities in its UC system, though. In most states, there's a pretty wide gap in prestige between a singular "University of [State]" (where the location is implied) and "University of [State] - [Town]" that has to spend it as a distinction.

UC Berkeley vs UCLA is a very small gap. Even UC Berkeley vs UCSB is a lot tighter than, say, Michigan (Ann Arbor) vs Michigan (Flint). California is the most extreme outlier in the country when it comes to this question.

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Icy_Consideration409@reddit

The best public school in Colorado is the Colorado School of Mines.

And to anger Boulder further, there’s not a huge difference between CU and CSU. And if you want to be a veterinarian, CSU is one of the best schools in the country.

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itsbraille@reddit

Absolutely yes, if you ask someone that went to a flagship university.

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IngenuityExpress4067@reddit

it depends greatly - not only by state but also by what you are studying. I live in Washington and UW is definitely the better know and better programs for some things (computer science, business), but WSU has some of the top programs - plant science, food science, animal science and vet schools in the world.

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Fun_Independent_7529@reddit

And UW Seattle is getting more & more competitive to get into, unfortunately.

There’s plenty of states with multiple great public university options.

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Working-Office-7215@reddit

Agreed. Other examples of states with multiple top public options are Virginia with UVA + William & Mary; NY has varying SUNYs with no real flagship. Penn State and Pitt are comparable academically. Clemson/USC. Then a lot of schools are tops for engineering or other STEM disciplines (e.g., Virginia Tech, Texas A&M, NC State)

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StuffonBookshelfs@reddit

lol. I’m literally being direct. I’m sorry that you’re having trouble understanding me. I’m having a ton of difficulty understanding your responses as well.

No need to continue this dialog, as it’s just frustrating both of us. Hope you have a good day.

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musaXmachina@reddit

Don’t flatter yourself, nothing you’ve said is difficult to understand. But I agree this is pretty pointless dialogue. But, good chat take care.

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StuffonBookshelfs@reddit

How was I flattering myself? You responded to me multiple times with non-sequiturs. You either didn’t understand me, or you don’t know how to use the threaded reply function on this website. Either way, no need to be a dick.

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hops_on_hops@reddit

It's complicated. Prestige and educational outcomes are two entirely seperate things. Different schools prioritize different things

For example, which of these is a better school? College A has an award-winning expert in whatever field lecture 1000 students on occasion and then leave all the teaching to grad students. College B has a doctorate (with no prestige) teach a class of 25 and work with each individual student.

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RobotShlomo@reddit

When I went, yes there was. All if the money went into the flagship university, and the state universities were thrown crumbs.

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Tiredofthemisinfo@reddit

I’m from Massachusetts so I wouldn’t even know where to start

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Candid-Math5098@reddit

Amherst and "the rest"

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ZaphodG@reddit

UMass-Lowell is the second best. Then UMass-Boston. UMass-Dartmouth. The former state teacher’s colleges aren’t as strong.

California has two tiers of public university. The flagship tier is the University of California and the other tier is the California State University. There’s also Cal Poly with three campuses, which is a more technically oriented college education.

Many UCs are hard verging on impossible to get into. The state has a rule that the top 9% of the graduating class in any high school is guaranteed UC admission, but it tends to mean admission to the newest and least prestigious UC, as of this writing UC Merced. That said, each expansion campus’ prestige has grown and grown as the campus matures. UC Irvine used to be the default and now is very hard to get into. Same with UC Riverside. Merced will get there too.

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ChaunceytheGardiner@reddit

Yes, more or less.

Many states have two systems, one associated with the flagship university, and one composed of teaching schools. California is a big example: Berkeley/UCLA/UCSD v. the Cal States.

The university system tends to have most of the research and prestige programs (e.g. the medical school), while the directionals (e.g. Southwest State) developed as teachers' colleges.

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I do hiring for a Fortune 500. No one cares where you went to school or what your grades are. No one has ever asked for my grades once I left school.

We want personable people who are smart and won’t fuck our business up. Honestly most of the people we reject are Ivy League candidates because they are always looking to leave and stair step.

We have to train you to our procedures so you will learn more in 6 months with us than you did in college. Thats what every single employee has said. And they also realize professors rarely work in the real world so they aren’t giving you accurate business information.

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colt707@reddit

Well I grew up in California and I wouldn’t say there’s a flagship state school. It’s more of a tier system. UCLA, UC Davis, Cal Poly, and a couple others are pretty good schools across the board then you’ve got some like Sonoma State or Humboldt State(now Cal Poly Humboldt) that offer certain courses that are among the best of the best with the rest of the school being decent but not great. Sonoma State has one of the best if not the best botany and biology programs is the state, Cal Poly Humboldt is the school to go to if you want to study marine biology focused on the Pacific. Granted I understand that California is a different beast seeing as there’s something like 150 schools that would be consider state schools.

It does depend on the state. California has many superlative R1 public universities. So do many of the western states, Texas, Arizona, Kansas, etc. They all argue over which one is best.

I am not convinced that the education you get as an undergrad is hugely better at big schools than at smaller ones. The loss of opportunities for connections and research is offset by greater access to tenured faculty even in introductory courses. For example, my survey of zoology lecture was taught by the head of the wildlife biology department. The only time I had graduate assistants teaching was for my English Composition 101 & 102 courses.

Grad school is different, and the bigger, more prestigious schools are more prestigious for a reason.

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baddspellar@reddit

Five of the top 10 public universities in the US News Rankings are in the University of California Syste.

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Except for Florida, all UofF people secretly wish they were at FSU.

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TheNinjaDC@reddit

In tuition price, yes. In education value, not so much.

People go to Harvard because of networking opportunities not education opportunities.

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emmie-claire@reddit

The biggest difference is that the flagship school's reputation and alumni network will be statewide or even national or regional, while those of random city universities will be much more local. This can have impacts on networking and job opportunities. Otherwise though, the caliber of education at the other schools is rarely much worse. Variance in the campus experience depends on whatever factors are important to you, like living on site versus at home or having a big football team to cheer for.

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ThePickleConnoisseur@reddit

Some states are like that but many have at least two good public schools where one is usually better for a specific major

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offbrandcheerio@reddit

It really depends. Some states have developed far more prestigious flagship universities than others. UMich and the like are outliers, even among public flagship institutions.

In my state (Nebraska) the public flagship school is the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. It’s not particularly hard to get into, and it’s not nearly as prestigious as UMich, for example. In terms of the gap between UNL and the next best state school (University of Nebraska-Omaha) it’s not that significant.

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BubbaTheGoat@reddit

I’m not sure where you are from, but to be clear, the answers you are getting here are based on the US definition of “public school,” one that is financed by the state, and not the UK definition of “public school” which is a private entity that accepts students regardless of geography (which the US would call private schools).

Top students will go to top private schools. There are some states where the top public schools are a real destination (e.g. California) but the more general rule is the private schools are better/more desirable. The real answer will depend on the exact school and program within the larger university to do the comparison by, but with broad brush.

If you really were interested only in the different tiers of state-funded schools in each state most people faithfully answered that question (as it matches the American definition of public).

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spf20214757@reddit

One issue you have here is the assumption that students only go out of state for their studies if they fail to get accepted into the public flagship. Many students prefer private universities (e.g. Ivy League, small liberal arts colleges, or just want to use college as an opportunity to move somewhere else in the country).

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taranathesmurf@reddit

On some states the first founded is the prestige school, in others it is what they offer. I think it depends more on what degrees they offer mostly. In my state one was founded as a liberal arts college and the other as an agricultural college. They all offer multiple degrees now, but the agricultural College still focuses more on useful skills rather than high brow degrees

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An8thOfFeanor@reddit

It matters more what program you're entering. Mizzou is the flagship public university and has the oldest journalism college in the world, but you'll have a better start in an engineering career if you go to Missouri S&T.

I’m a computer science student, I go to a decent state school in California, while UC Berkeley is considered one of the best schools ever haha. I wouldn’t consider my education bad by any means but that’s about as wide of a gap as you can get.

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Main_Insect_3144@reddit

In Alumni's minds, but in reality they are not usually head and shoulders above the other universities.

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Wasabiroot@reddit

Yes and no. For example, while Michigan State University is lower in rankings than MSU, someone getting good grades at MSU can still achieve in the same way. If you have good grades in high school and a good GPA in college what University you go to is less relevant. Wayne State is even lower in rankings than MSU but graduates many STEM students that go on to lucrative careers. Program reputations are more important

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pinniped90@reddit

Depends on the state.

Maine is similar re: Orono.

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The_Stratman@reddit

In Virginia, the flagship is the University of Virginia with a USNWR ranking of 26. Virginia Tech is the land-grant university and has a ranking of 51, which is tied with William and Mary, the oldest public university in the country. George Mason is 117, VCU is 139, James Madison is 151, Old Dominion is 293, Radford is 329, and VMI is not even ranked. The last five schools mentioned that have a ranking all started as teaching colleges or as annexes of larger universities. GMU was UVA's annex in the DC area, Old Dominion was William and Mary's annex in Norfolk, Radford was the women's college for VT, and VCU was the medical school for Hampden-Sydney, which is private. VMI is exclusively a military college and has been since its founding. I did not list every public Virginia school.

Most high-achieving students in Virginia apply to both VT and UVA, with those looking for a more liberal arts education applying also to W&M. VT tends to have more engineers than UVA, which tends to have a whole lot more technical students than W&M. Those three tend to be considered fairly equally in terms of general perception amongst the state, and above those mentioned and not mentioned.

I do want to point out that the rankings are including privates like Harvard and Stanford.

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Outrageous_Chart_35@reddit

I've never thought of a state having a flagship university. I've lived in three of the big rectangles (Oklahoma, Kansas and Oregon); each of those have two major state colleges and several smaller ones. The two will have different vibes and strengths (in OK and KS at least, one was an agricultural college and the other wasn't) and are rivals in sports and other competitions, but it's not like there's College A for the smart kids and College B for the rest.

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OpposumMyPossum@reddit

I wouldn't say quite large, but it's real for sure. If my kid wasn't going to one of the top 2 state universities, he'd be at another state school or one of the private schools.

But to show you how different the schools are - he applied to the 2 top (same state) state schools. One school gave him zero money, the second best one he got into their honors college and would have got his tuition and fees paid for plus some other like 5k bonus a year, etc. instead of 39k a year it would have been like 15k.

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Carlpanzram1916@reddit

There’s definitely a spectrum. Certain universities develop a reputation, it attracts more prestigious professors, garners better donors, and gets better research facilities.

Does the always mean the quality of the education is demonstrably better? No. But it does mean that it’s a more prestigious line on your resume and makes the college a lot harder to get into.

It could also vary by program. A university might have an elite school in one particular field but not necessarily in all fields.

It kind of works out to have a variety because you get these elite schools that attract high achieving students without the ruinous costs of an elite private school, but then you also get a vast network of more accessible but still high quality colleges for the broader population.

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jimbojimbus@reddit

This can be true, but there’s also huge diversity among ecosystems of higher education within different states. John’s Hopkins, a private university in Maryland, has a higher public endowment than my the flagship university of my home state even though my state’s flagship is almost twice as large

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Neenknits@reddit

No. Not at all. Some states have multiple excellent public universities and just as good or even better private universities.

Lots of people go to top notch out of state schools, as their first choice.

Some states don’t have universities that you ever hear about.

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hwrdhdsn@reddit

In California, the UC system historically was the premier league, and within that there are strata (Berkeley= prestige, Nobel laureate professors) but the Cal State universities also have prestigious programs (CSULB in Long Beach has great business programs aligned with the Southern California business community).

And many community colleges align with four-year universities for the required classes in your first two years, offering smaller class sizes. The secret is that many of the first two years at universities are caught by grad students even at schools like Berkeley. Way cheaper at community colleges and courses transfer.

So look at the specific programs that are relevant to you and don’t sweat the name brand unless that really matters to you.

What you do with your degree is more likely the best way to impress anyone and to make a real difference.

Since you asked about comparing to private schools, some private schools are excellent like Stanford. Some are very good like USC and USF. And some are just degree mills like the University of Phoenix. Your mileage may vary.

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dgmilo8085@reddit

There are three tiers of university:

Ivy League, get in here, and it matters.
Flagship Universities and State Schools doesn't matter, they are all the same. The only differences are the culture you will fit into and the area of study.
Pay for Play degree mills.

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BrokerBrody@reddit

It depends on the state but for most states this is true because the average state is not populous enough to support two near parity public universities.

For big states like California, the university system is like a gradient and there is not a steep dropoff between the flagship and the next university in line.

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judijo621@reddit

Calif here. Honestly, the fact that both of them were accepted in one of their top 5 was perfect.

Son: UCSanta Barbara (number 3)

Daughter: CalPoly San Luis Obispo. (Number one)

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Beautiful-Rent6691@reddit

All states are different, but CA has two systems. The UC system (UCLA and Berkeley, etc) are world class universities and are highly sought after regardless of state of residence. We have a second system, the Cal State system. These are universities that are more attractive to folks looking to commute and perhaps with fewer economic resources and less competitive grades. There are nuances within this, the Polytechnics are very competitive for engineering for example. And that isn’t even getting into the way excellent private schools, Stanford, The Claremont Colleges, etc.

That said, your basic thesis, one top school isn’t really the set up in most places.

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RsonW@reddit

Not in California, no.

The flagship University (UC Berkeley) is oftentimes ranked below UCLA but is also very prestigious.

UC Davis is one of the best agricultural schools in the country (and oftentimes the best), but not as good in other subjects as UC Berkeley or UCLA.

Then you get the other UCs being decent to good, but not phenomenal like UC Berkeley or UCLA. Nor do they have a standout program like UC Davis Ag.

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LHCThor@reddit

It really depends on the school and subject matter. Some schools are known for certain subjects, while other schools have a good reputation in general studies.

But the gap between a community college and a university is usually pretty good. However, there are some junior college (community college) that are much better at teaching the lower grades than a university.

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chriswaco@reddit

As others have said, it depends. I live in Ann Arbor and half of the students come from outside of Michigan. For undergrad there's not always a huge difference between prestigious and other schools, but for graduate studies and research the difference is larger.

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Sea-Bill78@reddit

This might be true for smaller states but in California, UC Berkeley, Los Angeles and San Diego are all in top 25 across the nation. Also California state has a few good ones like CalPoly. It may not be the case for smaller states or states with less colleges.

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Thirteentimes3@reddit

OP's supposition seems to be fairly correct to me. However, I don't think that reputation necessarily accounts for the level of education received. A fast way for a college to get a reputation as a top school is to raise their admission standards. And every state has one or two schools that are harder to get into than the rest. The danger is that often this is equated with the quality of the education delivered. The education received at some state schools perceived as "lesser" is as high in quality, but maybe it's less competitive among the students.

It varies tremendously by state. Some states have several well known prestigious universities. For others, even their to school is middle of the pack.

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Fun_Apricot_3374@reddit

No, most states have several universities, some are larger or smaller than the others, some specialize in certain things.

“The best” university in your state means a lot of different things, and can change drastically over a relatively short span of time.

For example My great grandfather taught zoology at one university and it was well acclaimed that people would come from states away to go there, a president even visited. when he retired they stopped the major. (They still do lots of similar stuff with agricultural animals and such, but that specific major was gone) and now they are considered a better engineering university than any other in The state, except in aerospace, because another college has a new partnership with an aerospace company.

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Paid_Babysitter@reddit

The college system in the US is a combination of Public Universities and Private Universities.

Public schools in a given state tend to have one or two flagship schools. There is a bit of history from when there were liberal arts and A&M focused schools for a given state. That is pretty blurry now but the history and reputation is there.

From those top one or two there is a gap in size and breadth of the schools available and quality. It is not to say these non-top schools are not good. They are just not usually good in as many majors as the larger flagship insitiutions.

Private schools are a mixed bag but some states could have several top tier schools that are Private.