Best 90s UMPCs?
Posted by Wrong_Bicycle_9103@reddit | retrobattlestations | View on Reddit | 29 comments
I am in the market for an absolutely tiny laptop. I love my ThinkPad 560Z and 240, but even a subnotebook (like those or a Portege, VisionBook Traveler, etc) would be too big.
I am aware of the Sony Vaio PCG C1 series and of course the Toshiba Libretto line, but I was wondering if there's any other models I should look out for. I don't want any of the modern stuff like the Pocket386, but anything from the era would be neat; something with an 80386 or better processor and an active-matrix color screen.
Also, if anybody has experience with these machines, could you compare the typing experience between them? The general vibe I've read is that none of them are amazing to type on, but they can be okay once you learn it. What I'm more interested is relative comparisons between them.
ZaitsXL@reddit
I am not sure there was such a thing at all in 90s, it wasn't possible to pack a desktop hardware in an ultra mobile case back then due to high power consumption and heat
Wrong_Bicycle_9103@reddit (OP)
If it wasn't a thing, then how do you explain the Toshiba Libretto, PCG-C1, and the other ultraportables that did exist? The question isn't whether they existed, as we all know that they did (though not using desktop hardware, instead using mobile chips like you'd see in a laptop), just the specific models.
ZaitsXL@reddit
Toshiba Libretto is not an UMPC. If it does not use desktop hardware and does not run desktop OS then it's not UMPC as well, it's a PDA.
But you probably right, they could pack the same hardware as Libretto had into UMPC, maybe something like this exists but I am not aware of any model. Today though they make UMPCs based on 386 and running Windows 95
Wrong_Bicycle_9103@reddit (OP)
The Libretto and C1 both run a desktop OS (Windows). They don't use desktop hardware, they use laptop hardware, for reasons that should be obvious. And I'm aware of (and mentioned in my original post) the modern UMPCs like the Book386 or whatever it's called, but that holds no interest for me.
ZaitsXL@reddit
Libretto and C1 are laptops, not UMPC, because they need flat surface (or your laps), so that's why I'm not sure if any UMPC existed in 90s
Wrong_Bicycle_9103@reddit (OP)
Okay, fair enough, but they're pretty close to the UMPC form factor. In any event, it's worth noting that UMPCs used laptop hardware too... you certainly wouldn't be carting around desktop hardware in something so tiny.
ZaitsXL@reddit
I meant not mobile hardware, like ARM or MIPS based, because those couldn't run PC software
StarX2401@reddit
Really the best one at the time was the libretto. The keyboard is quite small though and not that great for typing so if you want a better keyboard then the VAIO C1 is the one to go for. One downside is the librettos suffer from brittle plastic, it's very so-so which are affected (I've had many Japanese 20 and 30CTs get brittle plastic, but my UK spec 50ct is perfectly fine).
The VAIOs don't suffer from that as the body is made of magnesium, only the keyboard frame and screen bezel is plastic, although the Japanese units tend to suffer from vinegar syndrome on the screen. They both have great sound and ok graphics, the libretto 50/60/70ct is great for dos gaming due to the 640x480 display.
In terms of batteries I find the Toshiba's tend to be more likely to work, it's quite rare to see a C1 battery work. Although they are both easy to recell, the C1 battery is easy to open up and uses standard 18650s. Id probably go for the 1st or 2nd gen C1s with the pentium/celeron CPU's
Wrong_Bicycle_9103@reddit (OP)
I'll remember that. I'm a DOS programmer who wants one of these primarily to code on (yes, I know, it won't be ideal, it's for when I'm in a pinch and just want to work on some code when I can't cart around even a 10" subnotebook, but can carry one of these). The C1's keyboard definitely looked better than the Libretto, but the amount of vinegar syndrome I've seen on most C1's that have been listed lately is insane.
Hondahobbit50@reddit
HP omnibook 800ct
miniscant@reddit
r/OQO
Or HP Omnibook 300 and later.
d__max@reddit
What about the early netbooks like the eee pc ? From the 2000s with performance from the 90s lol. But they were super portable and common
Wrong_Bicycle_9103@reddit (OP)
Those just have a very different feel to them than the 90s machines. It may perform like a Pentium III, but it's not; the build quality on a 90s ThinkPad would trounce it, for instance, and I imagine stuff like the sound isn't as compatible. I don't want something that looks and feels like a cheap late-2000s gadget, I want something that looks and feels like some futuristic yet impractical mid-late 90s gadget.
Useful_Resolution888@reddit
I don't think you should write them off. I've got a 2010 windows 7 Samsung netbook that my mum bought and never used that is actually great. It's got a good screen and keyboard, if it ran Linux nicely it'd be a great little dev machine.
wbr1958@reddit
I have a lot of fun machines, but in this case I am referring to my turquoise iBook, with its circular mouse. I suppose I could also break out my Psion.
Wrong_Bicycle_9103@reddit (OP)
Maybe they're great, but it's just not the kind of machine I'm looking for. When looking for a 90s laptop, the last thing I want is a netbook from the 21st century. They simply don't have that 90s magic or energy, there's a whole different design language that frankly I find offputting (most consumer gear from that time period gives me a similar feeling), and I just don't find them at all compelling. Also, the glossy screens many netbooks were stuck with are the bane of my existence.
In any case, it doesn't matter whether the netbooks are good in absolute terms. I assume you read my initial question, and I don't see how that has anything to do with netbooks. They're just not what I'm aiming for.
d__max@reddit
Now I know it’s not what you’re looking for , as this is very 2000s / vista era, but this thread has reminded me of the OQO palm size PC, those were rad always wanted one even if vista in a small PC probably meant 3.7 minutes of battery life
wbr1958@reddit
I like that you are intentionally looking for something you describe as “impractical,” especially that it LOOKS impractical. I keep looking for a good place to take my Mac clamshell out for a spin in public.
Wrong_Bicycle_9103@reddit (OP)
Do you mean a Macintosh Portable, or something later like the colorful clamshell iBooks? I'm assuming it's the former because the iBook, while eye-catching, isn't too impractical, while the Macintosh Portable most definitely is (in a good way).
Tokimemofan@reddit
The issue imho is going to be finding one at all. This sort of thing was much more popular in Japan than elsewhere. It also matters when in the 90s you are aiming for, you probably won’t find any 386 devices at all. Even the Dauphin DTR-1 had a 486 and is extremely bulky by UMPC standards. If you are willing to go to the early 2000s I have to recommend the Vaio U series, I still use the keyboard even today.
Wrong_Bicycle_9103@reddit (OP)
That's why I said "386 or later"; I was casting a wide net, so a 486 or Pentium is fine. Really, I just want to avoid anything that's solidly in the Windows XP era. Some of the 2000-era Sony Vaios with Pentium III or Transmeta Crusoe processors would be just barely in scope (some of them shipped with Windows Me), but really I'm focusing on the DOS/Win95 era.
Tokimemofan@reddit
That’s what I was getting at. My experience with the Sony C1 series personally hasnt been good, both of the ones I had suffered from backlight issues among other problems. There is a product line I’ve had experience with that you have overlooked, it’s the Casio Fiva. They seem to be much rarer than the Sony or Toshiba models but I have no complaints about them from a usability perspective
Wrong_Bicycle_9103@reddit (OP)
Admittedly, part of my motivation for making this post was having a vague memory of the Casio Fiva but not remembering what it was called. It looks cool (Cyrix MediaGX) if only I can find it...
Tokimemofan@reddit
Yeah, even the common models are much rarer than the other brands in my experience
blakespot@reddit
Maybe you need a Microsoft Origami... :->
VivienM7@reddit
HP also made a bunch of interesting things in this sphere over the 90s.
Then, well, most people thought palmtops running Windows CE would be the future for some reason. Within a year that had flopped and that was the end of a lot of cute little computers...
Wrong_Bicycle_9103@reddit (OP)
I know they had some pretty cool XT-class stuff in the early 90s (some CGA palmtop with an 80186 or similar), did they have newer stuff?
VivienM7@reddit
I believe so, I don't know tons of details, but I remember seeing something on YouTube from 1996-1997 recently. Might have been an OmniBook 800CT.
Then, well, they abandoned that line in favour of those Windows CE palmtops. Which lasted like a year. (In a way, that foreshadows HP's idiotic embrace of Itanium...)
RichardGreg@reddit
The best one is the one you can find. It's not like you can drive down to your local CompUSA and walk up and down the shelves and pick whatever model you want.