how well-known is this in Serbia? (& rest of Balkans).
Posted by SOHONEYSAME@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 347 comments
Posted by SOHONEYSAME@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 347 comments
IRLMerlin@reddit
greece also leaked nato intelligence to the serbs which lead to greece never again being allowed in a bunch of nato meetings
not that it matters, the current government will suck americas dick whether or not they share intel with us
as a greek i only feel shame
Ecce_Homo___@reddit
We all know of course and will never forget!
TheTerrorBeyond@reddit
You won’t be around for long either. That “never” holds way less weight that you might expect.
MegaMB@reddit
You did forget the massive support France provided to Serbia for years, and ended uo taking our soldiers hostage...
FisherKing85@reddit
We didn't forget France fucking us over in 1914 by sending over 20,000 artillery shells that were the WRONG caliber. Might want to brush up on your history.
MalaMayonga@reddit
And still made us pay for it afterwards.
MegaMB@reddit
There isn't a single army who did not do massive blunders throughout the whole of 1914 in our defense. Damn I did not know this story, but I'm absolutely not surprised.
That said, if that's the only thing you remember in terms of french support at the time, that represents serbian selective memory at a whole other level than what I thought.
FisherKing85@reddit
That's not the only thing we remember, the point is that you're just as selective, hence my comment.
Serbia and France had an alignment of interests at certain points in history, we were even allies for a bit, but that's about it. Get over it.
MegaMB@reddit
Then serbs decided to shit on us and destroy their international support, and lost their friendliest and most important power in the West and in NATO in the process.
To be fair, it is definitely true that the alignment of interest is now no longer there. We have a few allies in the region, not really any enemies. And while Serbia might need some good relations with some stronger powers in the EU, we honestly don't really need this outside of business.
Also, personal experience with serbian politicians really left me a really bad opinion of them. I don't know if I'm sorry for serbs or if you have what you deserve but daaamn are they incompetent.
FisherKing85@reddit
Cool story, bro.
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
We actually didn’t. We have a monument in gratitude for France in Belgrade for the help in WWI.
It was also widely regarded as one of our biggest allies in the west, in the past, if not the biggest.
But since then, things obviously shifted, and Greece stayed consistent throughout the years.
We can acknowledge both our shared past and the fact the relations aren’t the same anymore.
MegaMB@reddit
Sure, but it was not the french who broke shit up and started taking serbs hostage to continue the siege of Sarajevo. That was still a pretty "nice" way to thank us for years of support, including in the UN for your war crimes in the balkans.
Oh well. Retribution for letting war crimes happen in front of our eyes and not intervening.
Cardan011@reddit
France is Muslim country, it turned its back on Serbs first. We were allied when you were still Christian civilization.
MegaMB@reddit
Do I really need to answer to someone who drank the fascist kool-aid about the great replacement? Or can I just throw my disdain at them?
Like, I'm really sorry. But hearing this from an ex-yugo person, where this kind of conspirationnist arguments was used en masse by land thieves and murderers, it feels profoundly wrong.
Cardan011@reddit
Ok Khalid
MegaMB@reddit
Oh no, is that supposed to be insulting? Damn, you must really hate muslims if you think so. Is that something your father or grandfather transmitted to you, or you ended up like that on your own on the web?
arhisekta92@reddit
Were you there?
MegaMB@reddit
Nop, but the whole shitshow at Vrbanja bridge is pretty famous nowadays for being the last time the french army had to perform a bayonette assault.
arhisekta92@reddit
Nowadays? It was famous 30 years ago, wake up buddy. If you were in the Balkans for a bit longer, you wouldn't only yap about bayonette assault. Lol what a story for kids. Maybe they should make a docu on Discovery about it.
By the way this Greek captain has nothing to do with Bosnia. He refused to partake in the 1999 aggression, and as a liberal who recognizes fully our disgrace during the 90s, my hat's off to him.
MegaMB@reddit
Still famous nowadays in french military circles, sorry.
Either ways, point stands. Mitterand the tankie let Serbia commit war crimes en masse, and we got the logical result from sponsoring war criminals whose main goal was to use the ethnic conflict as an excuse to murder their neighbores and steal their land.
We should not have intervened, and we should certainly not have tried to weaken the UN forces there.
arhisekta92@reddit
You are telling me you are a woke conservative? Yes, I agree. You shouldn't have supported war criminals to begin with. In the end you didn't just help Serbian war criminals. You helped Croatian and Bosnian war criminals later.
I agree. I also don't know who the fuck thought that hiring a bunch of mercenary 'veterans' from Yugoslav wars to fight in Zaire was a good idea.
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
Admittedly i don’t know about that, but that is definitely a stain on our relationship, as is it is a stain on our history, everything else that happened.
As for your internal and external politics and your politicians’ reasons for acting in general (Rwanda), that is on you honestly.
SpreadTheLoveDupe@reddit
Wtf are you on about?
MegaMB@reddit
Welp, let's just say that Mitterand, the french president in the 90's, was convinced that France was in a secret war with the US. And that included giving full support to Yugoslavia, letting french legionnaires fight for serbs, and taking over the UN forces to make it as ineffective/supportive of serbian forces as possible.
Like, you really even remotely think that the siege of Sarajevo would have been possible otherwise?
cyclopsontrampoline@reddit
What sh*t you've been smokin' bro?
MegaMB@reddit
Educate yourself on how you lost your biggest ally in the West and in NATO man.
cyclopsontrampoline@reddit
Hey, delulu boy, you'd better find another pusher. That sh*t you smoke is crazy. 😅
I've heard all kind of theories, but your's is crazy af.
MegaMB@reddit
Thanks little bot.
Now go educate yourself instead of being in denial.
cyclopsontrampoline@reddit
Little frenchie, who saw nothing about sh*t in my country, came here to tell me what happened in my country... and I need an education. Yeah right buddy...
MegaMB@reddit
Yup, you still 100% need an education on how Serbia ended up so effing badly diplomatically isolated despite having the second strongest NATO forces on it's side when things started going wron in 1990.
cyclopsontrampoline@reddit
Go find another circus to play your show.
MegaMB@reddit
Bouhouhou, I don't want people to remind me that we fucked up badly.
arhisekta92@reddit
Maybe you Westoids shouldn't have help Slobodan win the elections before the war.
MegaMB@reddit
Ah yes, now it's westoids who turned the CPY into this breeding ground of authoritarians and genociders.
arhisekta92@reddit
Yeap. You, the Israelis, and the Republicans.
MegaMB@reddit
Lmfao. Not at all the profiles you were promoting and puting to power in the 80's, but a tankie like Mitterand, allied with Reagan and Yitzhak Shamir. I guess they could use their magic brainwashing lazer guns installed in Bulgaria?
NikosStrifios@reddit
You cannot commit war crimes on your own soil. I know a crazy concept for an imperialist to grasp, but that's how it is.
cyclopsontrampoline@reddit
The only fckd up here is you. 😅
liberaetimpera1@reddit
I love how liberal every serb is on this reddit and then theres a flare up and they show they truly are lol.
Reason why albanians never bought into yugoslavian bullshit
LenaLena93@reddit
Not us appreciating the man who refused to bomb us.
We are really showing our true colours.
RestaurantBoring417@reddit
The man who refused to bomb your country for ethnically cleansing an entire region, yeah he is a piece of trash
LenaLena93@reddit
Shouldn’t you be…like informed, before deciding to comment.
Beautiful-Clothes767@reddit
Mfs if they didnt bomb, you were going to kill each and every person in Jugoshit. You should accept the bombs and say we deserved and learn from mistakes.
LenaLena93@reddit
Sure. And then you ethnically cleansed Serbs after, destroyed our churches and moved into our properties, and that was that.
We got bombed for the crimes Serbs committed, and you got a “country” for your crimes.
And on top of that we have to put up with your condescending shit. MF.
liberaetimpera1@reddit
Yes i love how your story starts at the bombjng stage, not in srebrenica not in meja not in ww1 not in 1878 but that darn bombing.
LenaLena93@reddit
Do you know what this post is about?
Should I mention all the crimes committed to Serbs dating centuries back?
liberaetimpera1@reddit
How many of those pertain albanians? The fuck do i have to pay for something someone else did?
Croats did the most vile shit to you but you guys are all friendly with them in comparison to bosnia and kosovo because the latter lack power, the only thing you understand
vladedivac12@reddit
You're probably young and it's okay but the ethnic situation in ex yu countries is very complex and goes back centuries, there's always been conflicts, wars, different poltical movements, different borders and states, but we're all South slavic people, all from the same tribe, sharing the same language, music, movies, food. Sorry to disappoint you but a Bosniak Muslim has more in common with a Serb than an Albanian even if he's Muslim.
35BCx1405AD@reddit
You think I fucking give a shit.
I’m Illyrian Slav.
Your not.
arhisekta92@reddit
An Illyrian Slav? Lead the way, messiah
35BCx1405AD@reddit
I’m glad you understand the distention between the two.
LenaLena93@reddit
It’s because we could never have the same reactions with them, as we do with Albanians. We speak the same language and are conditioned towards each other in real life in various ways.
That being said, i don’t want to fight with anyone here either.
But you cannot be angry at Serbs for appreciating the man who didn’t want to bomb them.
That is ridiculous.
liberaetimpera1@reddit
Well that just goes to show that your history and suffering does not matter. In no universe did albanian cause more suffering or pain to serbs than the croats.
You guys are mentally brainwashed and any sober mind can see
LenaLena93@reddit
We are very much aware of the suffering of the Serbian people. We could never forget.
But the things is, the war in Kosovo and the subsequent bombing, and literally part of our country being torn away, is way “fresher”.
And secondly, it’s not like our relationship with them is close, so i don’t know what you are getting at, but it is a lot more complex than us and Albanians.
Due to us speaking the same language, we are ever present in each other’s “space”.
Serbs and Croats don’t talk to each other in AskBalkans, they talk in ten different subreddits i happen to visit, due to the same language.
So you are exposed to banal, every day type of conversation all the time, opposed to only hateful comments i read constantly from Albanians here that then dictates the discourse.
And it’s like that in real life also. We have a lot more daily contact with them, so like it or not, that becomes a norm overtime.
vladedivac12@reddit
I'm not sure you want go down that route. Serbia has been historically on the good side of history pretty much every time unlike its neighbours. WW1 they were on the winning side, the Austrian-Hungary collapsed, Croats, Slovenes and Bosniaks had a choice to either join the victorious Kingdom of Serbia or get annexed by Italy.
liberaetimpera1@reddit
Check what serbs did in ww1 kiddo. Hardly thr good side. Even russian chronicles at that time like Trotsky writes on your horrors.
arhisekta92@reddit
On our horrors? Do you know how many people we lost fam? And you were on the wrong side in that war.
Monterenbas@reddit
Yep, sad to see how the tables have turned…
Citaku357@reddit
That's so rich coming from Serbs, who get hard just by thinking about about coming back to Kosova
TheEagle74m@reddit
Stop lying, really! Serbs sold and still selling their properties, I am guessing better live with few thousand Euros in Serbia.
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
My grandmother didn’t leave willingly, just to be clear. She was old, with even older half blind father, and was determined to stay. She was banished from her home, and forced to leave with one suitcase.
TheEagle74m@reddit
All I know that is been a while nobody dares to attack Serbs or other minorities in Kosovo. Seriously, police will arrest and jail em right away. In the days after the war there were unrest all Over Kosovo.
vladedivac12@reddit
Maybe not attack but make their lives miserable
I don't even blame the people, I get it, war is ugly and ordinary people pay the price.
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
That is comforting to hear, but you cannot accuse somebody of lying, when they are literally not.
This is coming from someone affected first hand, so it’s hundred fucking precent accurate.
LenaLena93@reddit
You either don’t know, or are being purposely ignorant, and I don’t know what is worse.
Beautiful-Clothes767@reddit
As I said. You guys are always the victims. You start the war you the victim. The war ends you still the victim. We say move on. You still play the victim. Ffs Accept the crimes and let people live!
vladedivac12@reddit
If life was so simple. You're probably born after 2000
Abject-Ticket-6260@reddit
When i see Priština and Zagreb being bombed for the crimes they committed, sure.
lradPumpac@reddit
And your mom should accept these balls in her mouth shiptard
pacovskirep@reddit
We can "accept" the bombs and still be happy that we didn't get bombed more.
bphunter@reddit
"Serbs should be happy they were bombed!!!"
RestaurantBoring417@reddit
Shouldn't have tried to ethnically cleanse Kosovo then, FAFO
MartinBP@reddit
I don't see many Germans complaining about losing WW2.
Ok-Weather-6988@reddit
I also don't see many Germans complain about losing Austria too and claiming its a fake country and whatnot, like you Bulgarians do with North Macedonia
HerrKaiserton@reddit
Yes, because the Germans faced reality. Everyone but the Germans {Excluding the AfD psychos} Complains about it
Rich_Future4171@reddit
No genocide = no bomb
Proud-Ad-5206@reddit
You almost write that like there were no reasons for the bombings...
NikosStrifios@reddit
No there were not. Neeext!
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
So if you kill my kid, it's perfectly fine to for me to kill yours?
Proud-Ad-5206@reddit
Remind me who us more into tribal blood feuds?
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
You're the one that's ok with it, not me.
Proud-Ad-5206@reddit
LOL well it did stop Slobo from doing shit in the Balkans, did it? Took a bit too long.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Well, it didn't stop the other side doing shit, did it?
Syrmin@reddit
No it's "Liberal Serbs should be happy they were bombed". Only these "genociders and Milošević-supporters" for some reason didn't like to be invaded and lose 15% territory while fighting savage terrorists and organ traffickers do called uck
Elmalukat@reddit
Yes, should bot have a maniac leader and attempt a genocide.
TheRealPizvo@reddit
*Carry our a genocide, actually.
Osstj7737@reddit
I'm a liberal Serb and I do not support just about anything my country did in the 90s. Having said that, the bombing campaign by NATO included obvious war crimes like Grdelica train bombing. I am condemning all war crimes, those done by Serbia but also those done by NATO.
TheEagle74m@reddit
Just curious, are there others that know and don’t support what Serbia did in the 90s?
Osstj7737@reddit
Yes, I'm not going to pretend that it's the majority, but definitely many more than some people imagine, it's just that you rarely see those people arguing online.
Some things like Srebrenica, Batajnica mass graves of Albanians and trucks full of Albanian bodies dumped in the Danube are hard to ignore. A lot of the people that are "nationalists" will not deny those, it's just that they will constantly complain about Serbian victims being ignored so they leave the impression that they pretend those never happened.
MartinBP@reddit
"Liberal" in Serbia is just a dogwhistle for Titoist. They don't actually have any western liberals over there.
Kaer__Morhen@reddit
I see how hostile this comment is and hope you can grow up in the future but I will answer genuinely
There is A LOT of propaganda here, those who think that propaganda doesn't influence them are lying to themselves or are small minded enough to not notice
Taking that point into consideration the whole Yugoslav war and Kosovo conflict topics are comple taboo unless we talk about how we were the ultimate victims and how the whole world was/is/will be against us and only us
So it is really hard to educate yourself on the situation and even harder to try and tell others that the whole situation was a giant shit storm (common Balkan W) and that we should move past the thing that happened nearly 30 years ago and just live our lives
And childish comments like this one don't help to educate people
liberaetimpera1@reddit
It wasnt a shitstorm, it was you lunatics trying to wipe out many peoples. And ironically the one that ethnically clensed you (Croatia) is the only one you dont have a sticking point against. You guys understand nothing but brute strength just like Russia unfortunately. It will take many generations to change.
-Passenger-@reddit
true
how are we catching strays here after
Kaer__Morhen@reddit
Again, very childish, if you believe change is possible maybe start with yourself
There are valid points you bring up try to wrap them up better for a chance to change someone's opinion unless you feel joy or pride writing like this, in that case have at it but I won't amuse you
liberaetimpera1@reddit
I apologize for the behavior of my passion
Beautiful-Clothes767@reddit
Yes but one thing I will give it to you serbs. You are the maestros of victimization. Like no matter the situation you guys can always play the victim.
Kaer__Morhen@reddit
That is unfortunately completely correct, I am amazed by that fact
Did you know that we never started a war? We were ALWAYS on the defense! I sure didn't know that before an old fart told me
How did we conquer land? Beats me but now you know
Legitimate-Glove5126@reddit
I guess it doesn’t count as attack when you kill your own constituents, bravo.
bphunter@reddit
You missing his sarcasm is the cherry on top
Legitimate-Glove5126@reddit
Pop that cherry bro, you’re making the wrong assumptions. don’t do it with a bottle though.
liberaetimpera1@reddit
Elite reference
TheEagle74m@reddit
Oh we learned a lesson from it. Never again.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
how, exactly, is "liberalism" (or ideology, in general) relevant to this?
r liberals supposed to "disregard" a country's national interests,to the point where they'd be de-facto supporting a Nato campaign against the country?
(especially considering the double-standards, of the intervention).
Creative_Gain3000@reddit
Just a reminder of the countries that did not want to be part of Yugoslavia for TWO GOOD REASONS; Reason 1. Ethno-Nationalistic Sadist Reason 2. Slobodan Miloshevic
The countries that split up from the nationalistic sadistic pigs are;
vladedivac12@reddit
Do you know that Kosovo is a Serbian name? Changing it to add an a instead of the o at the end doesn't make it less Serbian.
Creative_Gain3000@reddit
Yes I know that, thats why the ethnic Albanians living in Kosovo are not Kosovars but Albanians!
Na-Minut-Do-Bora@reddit
Oh so they are Albanians. Well then maybe they should leave the Serbian province of Kosovo
Creative_Gain3000@reddit
No, unfortunately they will not. That land was promised to them 3000 years ago part of Dardania. Albanians were there before the serbs arrival from the chechen mountains in 6th & 7th century. 👋 👋
Na-Minut-Do-Bora@reddit
""The land was promised to them 3000 years ago"" You sound so Jewish right now lmao
Creative_Gain3000@reddit
That was the point 👉 👈
MegaMB@reddit
I think that's an excellent argument for Serbia to annex Kosovo then. Give the 2 million local albanese population serbian passport, let them vote in serbian elections, and let's admire the following shitshow.
Like, I'm really sorry, but using historical facts as an argument to explain doing the dumbest shit your country could do and lead it to systemic failure is dumb as rocks.
Ujemegaz@reddit
And i was wondering whom were absent in this thread.
RestaurantBoring417@reddit
"No, you can't bomb Serbia! Why won't you allow the Serbs to ethnically cleanse Kosovo?!"
jaleach@reddit
Good for him. That whole situation was total bs from the start.
Observe_Report_@reddit
What situation and what part?
jaleach@reddit
Using NATO to attack Serbia. Should've never have happened since NATO had always been a defensive alliance. And of course, once they got away with it, they did it again (Libya).
Hundreds (probably thousands) of civilians were killed.
We nearly caused a serious diplomatic rift with China because the US bombed their embassy in Belgrade. That wasn't NATO broadly, it was an American bomber under US control that did it.
So yeah, I'm glad someone stood up and said no. I understand what was going on in Kosovo at the time, and I know that was the given justification for intervening, but what I really think happened was that the US was sticking Russia in the eye because they knew the Russians were too weak to do anything about it. The US did that all the time during the 1990s. Russia barely had a functioning economy (at one point, they had a mostly barter-type economy), so they just had to sit back and watch the US strutting around doing whatever it wanted.
I actually don't hate America, but I don't sit around clapping like a seal when my country is obviously doing something super shady, especially when it costs lives.
-Passenger-@reddit
Lets be clear here, without the US the killing and raping in Ex YU would've taken way longer.
Serbs fucked around and found out and now they are playing the victims like Israel always does. Nothing super shady here from the US. absolutely justified bombing
TheReal_Elite@reddit
So you talk about Serbs fucking around and finding out during the Kosovo war, but then say the same thing for Israel as well?
What exactly did Israel fuck around and find out with, because last time I checked, that was Hamas, not Israel..
Syrmin@reddit
And it was UCK terorrists who started war in Kosovo, they were literally fuck around and find out
GrayWolf9560@reddit
Terrorising the police who robbed Albanian homes over and over again, they had it coming and they deserved it. It was a time when the patrol police in Kosovo were called the 10 marks police since they always requested 10 marks after stopping you. Fk your police they deserved it and if you call us terrorists for that, then so be it.
Syrmin@reddit
Police randomly stealing Albanian homes in pre-war time? wtf is this propaganda?
On other hand it was uck who oftenly killed and robbed "unloyal" Albanians....
GrayWolf9560@reddit
Mate you haven't lived in Kosovo to know, what propaganda? The police robbed the houses of Albanians over and over again, pre-war with the pretext of finding weapons helped by no other than those “unloyal Albanians” who deserved to go.
The robbing was not random. Each home that had a guy working abroad was prone to robbery as soon as that guy sent money back home. Robbery caused by no other than you, the police from whom you whine “They attacked the police, they are terrorists. "
Why the fuck do you think people will stay cross-armed after getting robbed each day? It's funny because when the paramilitary burned houses of Albanians in Kosovo, they burned all the neighbourhood but not the houses of those “unloyal Albanians” making them an easy target intentionally after their intel was not needed anymore.
MartinBP@reddit
The hell are you smoking to compare Serbia with Israel? Israel got attacked, and the attackers are very much "finding out" right now. Not to mention the Palestinians backed Milosevic.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Brother, you did the same shit to Bosniaks for 2 years, in that very same war.
TheReal_Elite@reddit
Oh my fucking god you obsessed whores bringing Israel into everything is fucking annoying.
Are you going to say that every country who started a war in history is now exactly like Israel?
Monterenbas@reddit
What should have happened then? Just let Milosevic do its thing?
TheEagle74m@reddit
How old are you? Since you said “I know what happened there”.
jaleach@reddit
Extremely old
Observe_Report_@reddit
My country certainly took advantage of the Soviet Union’s collapse, including the forced war of 1991 in Iraq, but that was expected. Serbia literally employed the infamous “Horseshoe” strategy and ethnically cleansed Kosovo, in front of the world! Something had to be done and I’m certainly glad, biased as an Albanian, that the US took charge and helped. I don’t give a damn about the Chinese Embassy, I’m fairly certain they helped the Serbs shoot down a stealth plane.
Dry-Pool3497@reddit
Says the guy who is hostile towards Israel. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
TzarRadovan@reddit
People often mention 'the human side' but unfortunately that was not the motive for (illegal, but who cares) military intervention. If it was to protect the people's lives, America would intervene in Africa, where many more people lost their lives.
And
jaleach@reddit
I've been critical of Israel, sure, especially concerning their operations in Gaza. I'm old so maybe you'll humor me, but I've been watching Israel doing sketchy stuff over there for decades. Like shooting children because they threw a rock at an Israeli APC (the rock isn't going to do shit against armor).
I've also said Israel had to respond to the October attack. No country can just ignore something like that. Killing tens of thousands of civilians isn't my idea of a legitimate response to the attack, though.
None of this means I hate Israelis. A lot of Israelis don't like Netanyahu and want him gone (although a disturbing number of Israelis aren't bothered about the slaughter in Gaza).
Dry-Pool3497@reddit
I referred to your remark about NATO’s intervention. My point was that you emphasize civilian harm in some cases (like the Palestinians or the causalities from the NATO bombing), but downplay the scale of displacement and violence against Kosovo Albanians when discussing this conflict.
jaleach@reddit
Well. my intention wasn't to downplay it. I just know my government, and they are far more interested in kicking Russia around than just about anything else. Bombing Serbia was a way to say to the Russians aww you're so weak you can't even protect your Balkan brothers. This happened all the time in the 90s until America got distracted by 9/11. They've gone back to it with the Ukraine invasion.
The US government is filled with people who came in when the Cold War was still going on. Russia is the enemy and has always been the enemy to these people. I'd rather get along with them instead of replaying the 1980s on an endless loop.
Dry-Pool3497@reddit
I’m not denying that geopolitics played a role. But focusing only on US-Russia dynamics and treating Kosovo as secondary still misses the scale of what happened on the ground. Around 800,000 to 900,000 Kosovo Albanians were expelled, that’s roughly half the Albanian population of Kosovo. That was a massive humanitarian crisis in itself.
riesen_Bonobo@reddit
Coming from a German perspective and having looked at the debates preceeding our involvement in the Nato mission, including the bombing, in retrospective (I'm too young to have witnessed it) I'd say we were in it for two reasons, the impulse was given by the USA to join as a Nato ally (as they like to drag others into their conflicts), but that was not the reason, this is why the discussion was even on the table (Germany going to war was a polititcal taboo for a little thing we did some 50-60 years prior).
At the time we had a Green party, center-left and pacifist foreign minister that, after multiple failed attempts of convincing Milosovic to just stop, approved the invasion with the intended goal of stopping a genocide, in the spirit of "Never again". Although I do find the method of aerial bombardment questionable, instead of for example deploying soldiers to guard Kosovo, there are logistical and tactical arguments to made in it's favor and I fully stand behind our intervention in Kosovo.
jaleach@reddit
Fair enough, and yes I'm sure to the average Kosovo Albanian, they were more concerned about Serbs burning down their home than what's going on with Russia and the US.
As an outsider, it's easy for me to just view everything through a geopolitical lens without focusing on what was happening on the ground.
Dry-Pool3497@reddit
I appreciate that, thanks for acknowledging it. I get your point about geopolitics too, i just wanted to make sure the human side of it isn’t overlooked.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Britain and Germany were as invested.
I have my own theory for Kosovo, and it does not involve such grand scheme as Russia, and even Ukraine is not as big theater as we think, judging the fact that the US abandoned it lately.
In 1993, it is speculated that Berisha, president of Albania, met with Milosevic in Oher, and taking into consoderation that Rugova was very close with Berisha, and Albania violated the embargo by supplying Serbia with oil, it is logical to assume that both Albania and Serbia had a secret pact not to go to war. This way, Serbia comcentrated fully on Bosnian and Croatian theater. I am not sure what Albania got in return, but i guess they probably got a promise that the oppression would cease in the future. All statement of Albania explicitly said that Kosovo was a domestic matter of Yugoslavia. Had a war happened in Kosovo in the 90s, Serbia would risk a lot regarding Bosnia and Croatia, and if anything, logically, Albanians had the best chances to fight and win. After Dayton, they lost such opportunity.
But, then, 1997 unrest happened in Albania and eventually the army was disbanded. At the same time Serbia raided the Jasharis killing every single of them, certainly sparking the war. Albania was at worst aituation possible at the brink of civil war, and i guess Milosevic thought it was time to wipe off Kosovo Albanians once and for all, as there would never be another chance alike.
I assume, the west was aware of whole this, and the Americans were probably informed of any secret pacts Albania had made, if any. It is a fact that America had already pressured Greece back in 1994, when a Greek paramilitary group trained in Cyprus massacred Albanian conscripts in Peshkepi. Americans obliged Greece to arraest such group and compelled both Tirana and Athens to improve relations. Probably the Americans did not wish to back Serbia into a corner in the early 90s when the war spread in Bosnia and Croatia. They probably wanted to settle the whole region, and raise influence in the region by doing such, but not at the cost of one country over another. Yet, as soon as Serbia turned out to be untrustful, it is understandable that all western powers were fed up and would act. Even Russia was fed up, imo, but they could not be publicly against Serbia.
Anyway, this is my approach on what happened, because there is no other explanation that the US, Britain and Germany would be so heavily invested to intervene on behalf of Kosovo so eagerly and even help them become indipendent, a solution which was unthinkable in the early 1990s. No other explanation but a violation of a "secret" pact between Albania and Serbia, in which, the terms were already favorable for Serbia. I mean, a lot of countries and peoples have been subject to efhnic cleansing and no country got as much support as Kosovo. I think Serbia screwed up really bad by signing something, and then violating it sooner than later.
jaleach@reddit
I mentioned the hundreds, which seems more accurate, but some estimates are higher.
Did any of those people ethnically cleansing Kosovo face war crime trials?
Dry-Pool3497@reddit
There were ICTY prosecutions, including senior Serbian officials. But even if justice wasn’t perfect, that doesn’t change the fact that nearly a million Kosovo Albanians were displaced. It’s central to why the intervention happened.
BGD_TDOT@reddit
This man is very well known in Serbia. He is a hero for Serbs.
Rich_Future4171@reddit
Hero for a genocide
arhisekta92@reddit
he didn't support Milošević, but he also didn't want to bomb Serbia because Clinton had a loud cumshot in the oval office.
sneakyjedi123@reddit
Yeah let’s forget all the genocide
bocko159@reddit
There was no genocide troll
Na-Minut-Do-Bora@reddit
el_primo@reddit
Participating in the genocide against Muslims and Catholics must have been the orthodox choice.
Na-Minut-Do-Bora@reddit
Mf this bombing was not about the genocide. What are you even on about
CipherTheDude@reddit
Used to be an admirer but my sympathy for serbs dried up fast as they continue to be lap dogs for the russians even now.
MartinBP@reddit
Every post about this war makes me more proud that my country opened its airspace and let NATO do what had to be done to put down that rabid mini-Russia.
Vast_Scale_3199@reddit
r/europe users arent gonna let you hit pissy
Own_Information3154@reddit
thank you brother
Dull_Cucumber_3908@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskBalkans/comments/15oj1ir/have_you_heard_about_marinos_ritsoudis_he_was_a/
mladokopele@reddit
Judging by the comment section very well known in Serbia, not known at all outside of Greece/Ex-Yugo.
CopenHagenCityBruh@reddit
His cock > russian cock
TheGringoLife@reddit
Thank you for sharing this product review with us on Reddit.
Redditater_3003@reddit
NATO needs more officers like him!
Sweet-Bed2076@reddit
Every year he is mentioned so that nobody forget
Observe_Report_@reddit
Orthodox brother is so stupid to me, I’m sorry. Same as hearing Muslim brother, never heard Catholic brother.
ismellsomethinggood@reddit
Go to Croatia and you will hear it
Observe_Report_@reddit
Cristian’s say that to each other?
TheGringoLife@reddit
It is the funniest bromance ever because North Macedonian Orthodox brothers always getting the cuckchair whenever Greeks and Serbians mention this.
NikosStrifios@reddit
When these "North Macedonians" remember they are actually Bulgarians then we will welcome them back with open arms.
Alternatively they could try to act as real Macedonians by speaking Greek. Anything other than prolonging Tito's sick joke will suffice.
ismellsomethinggood@reddit
Too late, they formed their nation.
vladedivac12@reddit
There's way less people so it feels like a smaller circle, something in common. Historically, our tribes religious affiliations dictated a lot things. Today, not so much, so it's just symbolic really, nothing too serious.
Observe_Report_@reddit
I find the Christian denomination thing so silly. I can imagine an alien visiting and it being explained to them and not understanding why there’s any animosity. Come to think of it, they would find many things perplexing about humans.
HerrKaiserton@reddit
If aliens exist, do you think they'll be fine between someone from Ceris, and someone from Mars? They're both aliens though!
TheEagle74m@reddit
That’s what Popes and Imams teach them.
Observe_Report_@reddit
I’m Catholic and I’ve never called another Catholic person, my “Catholic brother.”
NikosStrifios@reddit
You are not in a position to judge others Mr Catholic. We will call each other however we want and no follower of child abusers can tell us otherwise.
Observe_Report_@reddit
Ok, Mr. Orthodox blessing soldiers and mercenaries recently released from prison who went on to rape and pillage innocent civilians. Stop it, just stop it. I’m not anti-Orthodox, I simply find it silly when I hear “Orthodox brother.” It’s cringe.
NikosStrifios@reddit
Blessing what? Did you get your dose again mate?
I find the phrase "I am Catholic" even more cringe but you don't see me fighting every Catholic I find online about this.
Observe_Report_@reddit
Another thing, why don’t you just try to have a normal conversation instead of talking about dosing and licking Popes? Are you really that angry?
NikosStrifios@reddit
I was not angry, I became angry when someone from the dogma which gives the Christians 90% of their bad name decided it was a good idea criticizing others.
Also, your fanfiction is of no interest to me.
Observe_Report_@reddit
Yeah, there’s no talking sense with someone who claims nothing horrific occurred in Kosovo. Perhaps if the blood thirsty morons who were running Serbia at the time had considered an alternative path, like full autonomy and republic status, something that Kosovo had in the past, the Albanians and Kosovo would still be part of Serbia.
Observe_Report_@reddit
Why would “I am Catholic “ be cringe when I’m trying to make a point that Catholics don’t align themselves with others with cringey statements just because they encounter another Catholic? I would never call a Croatian my Catholic brother or automatically have this camaraderie because I’m Albanian and they are Croatian. Perhaps I’m different and generally have some built in learned aversion to falling for the expected bro-ally narrative. As far as blessing, I’m referring to Orthodox priests blessing soldiers and lowlife drug addicted mercenaries, who went on to rape and pillage all over Bosnia and Kosovo.
vladedivac12@reddit
No but you get the "fellow Christians" and it refers to catholics, protestants and other similar forms of Christianity.
WorldClassChef@reddit
I think he may have used the wrong word and was instead referring to Orthodox bishops or whatever. Idk though
TheEagle74m@reddit
Yes, orthodox pope, whatever is called
Syrmin@reddit
Maybe not Americans, but i saw many Croats, Poles etc. doing it
nimbuschingus@reddit
Finally a comment that makes sense
BelgradeNikola@reddit
Im in Belgrade it is widely known but not everybody has the idea, among the more right winged its almost a common knowladge, although lesser known among the left-winged where you could find someone who never heard the story. French Pierre Anri Binelu, Greek Marinos Ricudis and Romanian Florin Patrachoiou are commonly seen in media when the date of the events that they were known is due. Theres a graffiti also known in Belgrade which you posted. Personaly i feel big graditude for the actions of Marinos and i see them as a brotherly act and the great heroism which i think Serbian goverment should do more to celebrate and remember. Also other Greek brotherly acts during the Nato aggresion are known and remembered as well: Sintagma protest, blockades and other sabotages of Nato bombing by Greek people (Corfu, Tesaloniki), also the big „NO" of the Greek goverment.
Great thank you for all the Greek friends we will always remember.
Hackerpcs@reddit
Do we need to also honor the Greeks that did participate in Yugoslavian wars and specifically that took part in Srebrenica instead?
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/short-srebrenica/
Or when the whole political spectrum from communist KKE to far right Golden Dawn that took part in Srebrenica supported Serbia, meeting and congratulating the butcher Karadzic?
https://christiannaloupa.wordpress.com/
Greek support to Serbia in the 90s is a stain and disgrace on its history, of course Serbians like the "orthodox brothers" spiel with the NATO bombings of 1999 whitewashing what happened before 1999 which many people forget, for example that in 1995 Serbian forces in Bosnia had to be bombed to stop killing and genociding
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
No we do not. And that is primarily a stain on us.
But the bombing, as it was conducted, the number of civilian casualties that died, the shit they threw at us (that caused humanitarian and health crises we still deal with till this day) that goes against every rule of international law was not the way.
And that is what this post is about, and we (Serbs, at least) should remember that this man refused to take part in it.
Hackerpcs@reddit
The last time Americans and the world tried easing up and diplomacy on your Milosevic, the Bosnian war was 3 brutal years and a genocide in Srebrenica and even AFTER that, Serbs needed to be bombed to stop the killing, the 1999 bombing was brutal but were a sure way to stop the war and an assurance there wouldn't be another Bosnia in Kosovo, who could assure that Serbians wouldn't do it again there?
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
First of all, this post is about war in Kosovo, yet you are continuously bringing up a different conflict. Secondly, it is very, very irresponsible to speculate about the things that could’ve happened.
You say, who could guarantee that Serbs wouldn’t commit crimes if they weren’t bombed. Who guaranteed anything to Serbs, along my family, that got exiled after? Serbs got exiled, monasteries and churches burned, and they got rewarded with the country. There is around 5% of Serbs living there now.
We were punished for our crimes, they got a country for their. Like someone already wrote.
That is something you do not need to speculate, it is something that happened.
MartinBP@reddit
It's not really a different conflict though, was it? It was all part of your attempt to revive your dead empire.
arhisekta92@reddit
What dead empire, like expand into Greece? Lol the ideas i keep reading here
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
Revive an empire? It was Kosovo. That was apart of Serbian territory less twenty years ago (depending on whether you recognise it, or not though).
It was literally our territory.
HerrKaiserton@reddit
And Thrace was a Kingdom far before you existed, you hear me bitching about the countless genocides committed against my people by everyone around? Shut it. Serbia genocided people, said people in retaliation asked the international community to bomb Serbia. Simple as that. Lucky Serbia still having Vojvodina
Hackerpcs@reddit
It was the same nationalist war trying to realize "Greater Serbia", with any enemy against it, be it Catholic Croatians or Muslims Bosniaks, it was the same army, the same regime, the same tactics.
You were the victim of your own government, not those that were defending not to be genocided and ethnically cleansed, just like how Russians in Donbass now are not the victims of "Ukrainian bombing" but their own government (the one that they recognize as such like e.g. Serbs in Serbian Krajina in Croatia), if/when Ukraine can overwhelm the Russians, they will be sent to Russia, that's the result of being part of an expansionist war of aggression
arhisekta92@reddit
Not the same institutions though. In RS, there was no real Serbian army to begin with. It was a largely untrained militia with the material help from the rump Yugoslav army.
In Kosovo, a reformed and institutional Serbian army was present. The soldiers by and large did their work professionally. The issue lied with the wing of the defense controlled by Milošević - the interior ministry (MUP). They were the people you saw in blue lizard uniforms, and they were the undisciplined police force (that acted more as a militia in some areas) that did the majority of the killings in Kosovo, and for that they should be forever disgraced. If we managed to bring down Vučić, they will follow. It's so important we defeat him soon.
Another argument is the number of deaths. There were around 12,000 deaths in the whole war, 3000 of them being Serbs. Before the bombing campaign started, there were about 1-2000 deaths. After the bombing campaign started, 80-90% of overall victims occurred. What I'm saying is that what NATO did was escalate the conflict, which spiked the death toll as the fighting became more desperate on both sides. Serbia was also invaded from Albania, something people don't talk about much. Not to mention the collateral bombings and doctored footages in their aftermath.
Tell me, if Macedonia didn't surrender to NATO, and NATO bombed it to save the Macedonian equivalent of KLA, would you support NATO?
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
Those comparisons are very dangerous to make, since they are also very different.
I noticed you also didn’t comment on what happened to Serb civilians afterwards, but i guess that does not matter. Just an afterthought and casualties, like the victims of bombing, and any other Serbian victims that we ever dare to mention.
Hackerpcs@reddit
Expulsion of the aggressor's civilians are not a new thing, it's a painful and violent matter but inevitable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950)
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
Did you really link this Wikipedia page, and did you really compare us to Nazi Germany.
NikosStrifios@reddit
If that guy is Greek, I am Superman. Most probably an Albanian posing as a Greek,. Ignore him.
blodskaal@reddit
Damn bro, what a catch. Here is an upvote
Hackerpcs@reddit
Ναι είμαι εγώ Αλβανός επειδή η πλειοψηφία είναι ΜΠΕΤΟΣΤΟΚΟΙ και το 90 είχαμε ταυτόχρονα την ίδια στιγμή τα χρυσαύγουλα που ήθελαν να καθαρίσουν μουσουλμάνους Βόσνιους και γι' αυτό στήριζαν τους χασάπηδες Κάρατζιτς, Μιλόσεβιτς, Μλάντιτς και τους ΠΑΣΟΚους αλλά και ΝΔ (Μητσοτάκης 1991-1993) επίσης (δες τις φωτό από το ΣΕΦ να σου κάνεις εμετό) αλλά και τους ΚΚΕδες που νόμιζαν η Γιουγκοσλαβία ήταν ακόμα κουμουνιστική.
Το γνωρίζω ότι η άποψη μου είναι τραγική μειοψηφία στην Ελλάδα αλλά δεν με ενδιαφέρει γιατί διαβάζω ιστορία πέρα από "ορθόδοξες αδελφότητες" και λοιπούς μύθους που αν είμαι να είμαι αδερφός με έναν λαό που δεν παραδέχεται τα εγκλήματα του και τους φταίνε οι Αμερικάνοι, οι Ευρωπαίοι και ποιοι άλλοι να μην είμαι ποτέ
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
σκασμός, τότε.
Hackerpcs@reddit
Άμα δεν γουστάρεις στρίβε, ότι γουστάρω θα σχολιάζω. Να μου πεις εσύ γιατί γουστάρεις τους τότε Σέρβους, είσαι χρυσαύγουλο αντι-μουσουλμάνος ή ΚΚΕ;
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
Thank you.
Hackerpcs@reddit
Of course the scale of the war is not comparable but you were the aggressor and instigator of the war, then the other nationalities and religious followed up with crimes too
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
First of all: the UÇK started the armed conflict, not the Serbian police/army. Yes, Albanians were oppressed but you don't see Serbian students nowadays forming a guerilla unit. Second: the war didn't end after 1999. Third: prior to Srebrenica, a war was raging already for 3, 4 years. 70000 people died BEFORE the genocide, on all side. Fourth: there were other sides that also waged a war between themselves as well: Croats and Bosniaks.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
ignore this guy, friend.
check posting history,
Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine, Israel, supports Turkey against Kurds lol.
by no means representative.
the vast majority of Greeks disagree w/ everything he posted there, (which is why Serbia, according to polls, is still universally liked - unlike our neighbours).
Hackerpcs@reddit
Sort by older when I was commenting on Turkey's operations during the hot phase of the Syrian civil war to see if I did so.
And sorry if I support Ukraine, I know that a lot of Greece would prefer Russia even though we have the same problem in Thrace that if Russia succeed, Turkey can claim "violence against the Turkish minority" and invade and hold Greek territory "that was Turkish and has Turkish inhabitants", and if you can't even get that far, the obvious reason of not wanting annexing territories of sovereign nations
And I know how little people know about the Yugoslav wars, leftist think it's "an attack on the communist Yugoslavia from the West" and far right that it was a "Muslim attack on Christianity", not recognizing how both can't be right at the same time
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
some support Russia, some support Ukraine,
the majority "don't care" enough to support anyone, & believe Greece should be neutral.
that's the reality.
(in fact, even on the Palestine Israel conflict, while polls show more sympathy for Palestine, majority there, also, believe Greece should be neutral).
I'm not sure if u (actually) believe that.
foreign policy has never worked based on "principles"
like, EVEN IF Russia annexed Ukraine, completely, nothing would change for Greece & Thrace.
cause Turkey/Turkish imperialism is NOT blocked by what happens in a completely unrelated conflict, but by (threat of) force & alliances.
Hackerpcs@reddit
It's the international tide, if forced change of borders by wars are accepted/not punished and the aggressor has no consequences we are in trouble because we are the weaker country against a stronger one that has aspirations against us.
Besides us, it's unethical and disgusting to not sympathize with a European country that is going through hell purely because of Russian chauvinism, expansionism, nationalism and worst of all of to me, simply not caring what crimes their government is committing, pure apathy. I know most Greeks don't care, it's too far from them, I do care
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
sure.
ask Ukraine (especially their regime) if they care for Cyprus, or Syria, or (more recently) when Azerbaijan carried out ETHNIC CLEANSING of Armenians?
(in fact, have u said anything on Armenia, a nation which is practically a "brother" to MANY Greeks, lol).
ironically, I have actually visited Ukraine lol.
I have interacted w/ Ukrainians, Russians, probably more than u ever have.
& I like both.
however, geo-politics is different,
& "values" r 100% irrelevant.
MartinBP@reddit
Lol sure, that's why ND is still in power.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
okay?
what does supporting ND have to do w/ Serbia, & the Nato intervention?
I would, probably, vote ND (I don't vote) in fact, some people (here) call me, "a government troll" lol.
and yet, my position on this is clear.
(poll on public perception of neighbours/Serbia).
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
Thank you!
redrosevertigo@reddit
Your people should have asked the consequences of murdering little children and trying to assimilate people who dont speak the same language as yours
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Teach us about Yugoslav wars, please 🙏🏻
Vyoin@reddit
Kick Greece out of NATO. See they arent even a reliable ally
ismellsomethinggood@reddit
NATO is dead anyway now that the USA is pulling out.
Vyoin@reddit
Europe > USA
Rich_Future4171@reddit
Should force them to bomb Serbia again to regain membership
Inner_Idea_1546@reddit
Very known, a hero
Accomplished_Box5103@reddit
Greek Malaka!!
CypriotGreek@reddit
I am very surprised about his popularity in Serbia. I thought he wasn’t as well known in Serbia as he was in Greece. Practically all Greeks knew him after the war, both from the left and the right.
FluidKick8960@reddit
The greek sultan who refused to participate in funding of bulgaria
Lazarus92009@reddit
He refused to participate, but the Nato attack on Serbia was still lunched and operated from Greece (and that wouldn't be possible wirhout Greek cooperation obviously).
Ok_Rise7870@reddit
Shame, should be bombed in 1992.
ConsoleMaster0@reddit
What? A wholesome fact? In this economy?
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
It's very known.
Human-Painting4279@reddit
This is so pathetic, like if it did make any difference if he refused or not
TheEagle74m@reddit
He disobeyed an order, he swore to serve in military, so 🤷🏻
Diner_dinner_diner@reddit
Disobeying a lawful order is not what I would be proud of in a soldier, and definitely not something to celebrate. Imagine this happening in a more professional military.
uncle_urdnot99@reddit
The legitimacy of the bombings is up for interpretation but they were far from lawful. Soldiers have the right and responsibility to refuse illegal orders.
SuedeJacketMonster@reddit
I disagree that the bombings were illegitimate but regardless, it is not up to a soldier to go on a high-view international legal analysis of the military actions he's ordered to carry out.
Diner_dinner_diner@reddit
Any military target is lawful in war, orders to intentionally bomb a school or hospital are not
Comprehensive_Ad3399@reddit
Very known. Just one of a million reasons we feel a special connection to the Greek people.
Elmalukat@reddit
His lost, someone else just bombed genocidial maniacs.
Also your posts are always provocative
Plenty-Wait4361@reddit
Damn did not know I was a genocidal maniac at 5 when me and my family had to run to shelters from the park. I guess you learn every day, thanks Albanian!
Baoooba@reddit
Serbia was ruled to be responsible for committing Genocide in international court. So, your comment is not only provocative it is factually incorrect.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Armies have discipline. Refusal to follow orders gets you sent in front of a marshal court. Idk what the story is, but my hunch is that such stories are made up. Greece was on board as any other Nato country. It was just more feasible to bomb Yugoslavia from the Adriatic.
Syrmin@reddit
Yeah you would totally said that if someone refuse to attack Albania
Apart-Temperature329@reddit
The the military court sentenced him to 2.5 years in prison, and he was expelled from military service. I'm not sure if it's really that hard to do a small research, before choosing to write some meh assumptions.
Ujemegaz@reddit
That means one thing. The rest of the army was on board.
Apart-Temperature329@reddit
You seriously don't know what you're talking about, and still way too lazy to do any research but somehow with much energy to further assume meh stuff.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Imagine being proud of betraying the alliance you are already part of. The thing is that such story never made news where i am from. Glad it is true.
Apart-Temperature329@reddit
That's not a betrayal, lol, as the said defensive alliance wasn't for that.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
yeah,
& he's, also, wrong on Greece "participating" & being on board, (at least as far as I'm aware).
Ujemegaz@reddit
Such a reliable Nato ally.
Apart-Temperature329@reddit
NATO is supposed to be a defensive alliance, so that's pretty irrelevant. Of course, it wasn't just as such given countries like Greece, Turkey, and Italy suffering under Gladio webs and terror, as well as the first two suffering under the US-backed military dictatorships - but then, meh.
Ujemegaz@reddit
A deal is a deal. Trust is hard to earn, you know that.
Apart-Temperature329@reddit
There's no such a deal concerning the NATO further than a mutual defence in the lines of an assistance, if a member gets attacked within a defined region. You cannot be serious in being this clueless about the said organisation?
FantasticQuartet@reddit
There was no NATO country under attack. Nobody activated article 5.
I can see why you don't like it from an Albanian perspective, and I'm not here to argue on whether the Serbians were morally right or wrong. But legally speaking, Greece didn't violate any obligations it had.
It's no different in that legal sense, than NATO countries now refusing to help the US against Iran.
Ujemegaz@reddit
It is not about obligations only. Nato is a military alliance and any crack in trust has costs. I thought that there were hearsays that Greece leaked info to Yugoslavia, but i guess they could be true now. It would made big news in Albania that a Greek military got court marshalled for refusing to bomb Serbia, but then again, i guess our attention was more on Kosovo, and i always thought these online tales were not true, but glad i saw such post nonetheless.
Now you are projecting with Iran. It is not the same. Nato did not take any decision to bomb Iran, the US did. Back then, Nato behaved as the enforcers of Rambuille agreement. Plus, they had the congress aproval.
Even Ukraine is similar situation with Iran, where Nato members have no obligation to help with provisions, and at first Greece was flirting with Russia, but then Greek villages in Ukraine got wiped off nonetheless. I guess, no power respects countries which go against their own alliances.
FantasticQuartet@reddit
Again, NATO is a defensive alliance. Even if all members agree to participate in an attack, except for one member only, that one member doesn't violate its NATO obligations.
Greece was always skeptical of the Rambouillet conference, which was a failed peace negotiation. It was never signed, so you can't say that Greece had the obligation to protect Kosovo's autonomy. Also the fact that the US congress greenlighted the attack is completely irrelevant for any country besides the US.
The only thing that could and did legally oblige Greece to do something is the United Nations. Greece agreed to send peacekeeping forces in cooperation with NATO to Kosovo to help maintain order. That was under the UN umbrella.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Then why did this guy in OP get court marshaled 🤔
FantasticQuartet@reddit
He didn't get court marshalled. I don't know why the other comments replying to you are saying this, but it's misinformation. Look it up on Wikipedia , ask ChatGPT , do whatever you want but he didn't get court marshalled lol.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
Why would we be obligated to get involved in a matter between 2 non-NATO countries? It's like asking us to bomb Iran because the US decided to.
Ujemegaz@reddit
I am sure you are ignoring the context of 1999 intentionally. Nato acted as an enforcer of Rambuille agreement. Nato and the Kosovo representatives signed the agreement, and Yugoslvia did not. It was not a decision of single countries, but alliance as a whole. Iran was a one sided operation by the Us and Israel, who thought that killing the top chain would topple the regime, but it did not.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
I understand, but my point is we didn't violate any article of NATO by not participating in an offensive mission, even if it was carried out as part of an agreement. Participation in offensive missions is optional. NATO is a defensive alliance.
driftstyle28@reddit
I'm sorry, was a NATO country attacked? You are so funny.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Sorry...funny...
BGD_TDOT@reddit
A righteous man answer to God before he answers to his superiors. If a man commands you to commit an act which goes against your principles you should refuse and face the consequences, leave your fate with the Lord.
Ujemegaz@reddit
🤣🤣🤣
BGD_TDOT@reddit
What's so funny?
Prince_Hastur@reddit
Do not expect an Albanian to understand something like this. If NATO asked them to purge half of their population they would gladly do it.
Legitimate-Glove5126@reddit
Least regarded Serb
Prince_Hastur@reddit
Least butthurt Albanian
Legitimate-Glove5126@reddit
First I’m not Albanian, second buthurt for what?
Prince_Hastur@reddit
Nothing in particular, Albanians are just perpetually butthurt. This post is an example lol
Ujemegaz@reddit
We never purged anyone so far in the name of "God", or anyone for the matter. And probably never will. The comment above is worth a screenshot. Sounded like crusader heavy shit 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Prince_Hastur@reddit
There's a first time for everything, they just need to ask you
Ujemegaz@reddit
Not the first time getting bombed for you though.
Prince_Hastur@reddit
Actually yeah, Yugoslavia was bombed in WW2 as well. You were not because you offered your crown to the Italian king. See the pattern here?
Ujemegaz@reddit
Yes yes 🤣🤣🤣
Additional-Peace-809@reddit
Come on you don’t understand how pompous you sound with the above statement???
ant_gav@reddit
Don't follow your "hunch". Do your research first, than say your "opinion".
Ujemegaz@reddit
Never made such news here. Don't get offended.
Mighty-Pen-1@reddit
He was literally court marshaled and spent 2.5 years in jail.
Wesley Clark on Greek NGOs interfeering in bombing operations https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNv7f3BYMg0
brownnoisedaily@reddit
Actually interesting that it was "just" 2 years. My father refused military service completely and was with his friends who also refused in prison for 8 years.
Distinct_Travel6386@reddit
amazingamy19@reddit
He was aware. And still refused.
KeyMark4056@reddit
i mean he existed and was sent to jail for not following the orders
kvnstantinos@reddit
Not at all. Never heard of that guy
JimbosBalls@reddit
Yes and we remember him too for condoning the atrocities in Kosovo.
Turbulent-Debate7661@reddit
we never betray the bros!
Jazzlike-Moose3123@reddit
First time i heard about it. Great hero! Reminds me of the greek leftists who were against invasion of turkey in during 1919-1922.I wish united states had these kind of people who would say no to bombing civilians. İt takes guts to stay loyal to your country and humanity together.
Anacta@reddit
i'm greek and i didn't even know
Serbian_solider@reddit
Almost everyone knows him, Ritsoudis is deeply respected and truly loved. Serbs see Greece as an Orthodox brother, and our love for the Greek people is strong. We are sincerely grateful and proud of them for standing by us and not recognizing Kosovo. 🇷🇸❤️🇬🇷
Substratas@reddit
Serbian_solider@reddit
To be honest if there was no NATO Serbia would reach Durres, same us we ruled Skadar in Balkan wars.😁
Substratas@reddit
But now we have Durres, Shkodra - and KOSOVO. And you can’t do a damn thing about it.
https://i.redd.it/0dtialbv31vg1.gif
Substratas@reddit
For those who want to know what the reply was. 😂
Serbian_solider@reddit
Thanks to sharing, after you did genoide on us we will just send you back to Albania, we are not nation that kils civilians.
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
Serbian_solider@reddit
Killing terorists in Srebrenica isnt war crime.
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
Exactly. Which is why Bosniaks weren't charged for killing the invading genocidal terrorists.
Serbian_solider@reddit
Your whole history is based of an place where military was executed. Thats just historical fact and learn mora about Handzar division. Vi ste Hrcatsko cvijece.
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
Lmao my face when I call every man woman and child a terrorist so I can sleep at night thinking it's ok to murder people🤡
Guess someone doesn't know about Četniks working with the SS in WW2... Oh ooooh. €100 euro says he calls it fake news too!
Man I wanna ask what shit your smoking but unfortunately I don't believe me or my culture is the center of the universe and sadly I don't condone genocide :( almost a shame, we could've been such good friends if I did! Ah well, anyway, no point wasting more time on a brainwashed clown
Serbian_solider@reddit
Cetnici su bili ubjedljivo najcistija strana na prostoru Juge u 2 sv ratu, komunisti su Srba na desetine hiljada pobili, Ustase i Muslimani na stotine, Cetnici su saradjivali kada su morali da izvuku zivu glavu. Ante Pavelic je Bosanske Muslimane zvao Hrvatskim cvijecem, na Srebrenici se radi, to je projekat da se prica o njoj kako se nebi pricalo.o zlocinima Evrope. U BiH imas bar 100 mjesta gdje su se desili veci i stravicniji pokolji za vrijeme drugog svjetskog rata. Srebrenica vam je samo tema, vi drige teme u svojoj istoriji nemate.
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
Nah not on me son. Go preach that bullshit revisionist history to some uneducated punk who hasn't drank enough bullshit propaganda to be nationalized yet.
TheEagle74m@reddit
No? And who the heck killed 1300 Albanian children in Kosovo.
Serbian_solider@reddit
At the start of 20th century Serbs were 10% of Apbanian populaton, now there is 500.
Substratas@reddit
Serbian_solider@reddit
We fought Turks 5 centuries, we won against them, sent them back to Turkey, this will repeat to Albanians.
LenaLena93@reddit
Don’t troll them. They literally attach themselves to every Serbia related tread, and are usually ignored.
Just don’t engage and maybe they’ll leave lol.
Serbian_solider@reddit
Znam brt, samo zelim da ih pobjedim u debati, ali 100% si upravu, albanci su najgluplji narod, ne mozes im nista dokazati.
TheEagle74m@reddit
Najgluplji? Haaaa, If we are stupid then who controls Kosovo?
zog_i_zi@reddit
zog_i_zi@reddit
zog_i_zi@reddit
☝🏽Peak of Albanian intelligence 💀
Abject-Ticket-6260@reddit
The US?
Serbian_solider@reddit
USA. Greatest inventor of all time was Serbian.
zog_i_zi@reddit
Vidi molim te šta je neki kreten napravio.
Sramota da nam neko ovako zajebava komšije. Ne razumem koja je fora sa kozom u hidžabu?
Svakako, ovo nije smešno. I nemoj slučajno da deliš ovo negde.
LenaLena93@reddit
Ne možeš ih tako pobediti. Sad će samo da koriste i šeruju tvoje trolovske komentare da “dokažu” svoje tvrdnje.
A bukvalno kad počneš “diskusiju” sa jednim, još pet ih se nakače.
Treba ih samo ignorisati.
TheEagle74m@reddit
Hold your horses dawg. I thought Serbia do Tokio 😂
Serbian_solider@reddit
As i said we waited 500 years, we will get back everything you goat lovers stole.
TheEagle74m@reddit
Still waiting “dogodine na Prizren” it’s been 27 years
Serbian_solider@reddit
We are waiting end of your pedo daddy USA and NATO. See we had great Kings and Emperos on Kosovo, you have pedo Clinton. Every plays on Kosovo has Serbian origin.
WorldClassChef@reddit
Shut up svinja. Take your cringe BS somewhere else.
zog_i_zi@reddit
Soon:
TheGringoLife@reddit
Yeah yeah, ‘if’. You can say that about anything. Reality is Serbia got involved in multiple wars in the 90s and lost all of them. That’s not bad luck, that says enough about how effective the army actually was. It’s easy to talk big about reaching places like Durrës, but in reality they couldn’t even secure what they were already fighting over. Also big difference between invading someone else’s land and defending your own, morale alone already shifts everything and you guys where always the invaders.
Serbian_solider@reddit
Yeah, beeing constantly bombed by NATO forces in the 90s, having sanctiones by whole west, beeing unable to conquer multiple important cities. If there was just Serbs against Croats Muslims and Albanians you wouldn't do shi.
TheGringoLife@reddit
“Constantly”, got rekt a couple of times during the war in Kosovo so there was no excuse in losing to Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia. Macedonia got out without a struggle and even your Montenegrin brothers said f this shit we outta here.
Serbian_solider@reddit
Then you know nothing, do you know what propaganda was put against Serbs, Croats emptied hospital, sent military in it, shooted at Serbs, Serbs fired back, CNN filmed Serbs shooting at civilians. Plot(I was in that city when that happened) Also Sarajevo would fall in a day if UN allowed us, when Kupres fell they were begging us to stop invading, Livno and Tomislavgrad emptied because they were tought we are gonna invade them, sadly we stopped. We had santctions from every NATO country.
Additional-Peace-809@reddit
I’m so glad NATO made you guys give it back in the 1900s
Serbian_solider@reddit
Austrohungary did, learn learn some history.
Additional-Peace-809@reddit
☝️🤓
Serbian_solider@reddit
Living in 🇳🇱
LenaLena93@reddit
Dude, you are doing too much.
Serbian_solider@reddit
Dosao covjek da provocira.
f1fan6890@reddit
Do the mighty orthodox brothers know that they actually recognise Kosovo de facto? A Kosovo citizen can travel to both of these countries with documents that state "Republic of Kosovo".All that matters is how the situation is in practice and not in legal bullshit that stays on paper
Ujemegaz@reddit
nimbuschingus@reddit
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
HYBRIDLqTHEORY@reddit
i mean everyone in nato knows greece refused but we didnt know who
Dominus-Augustus@reddit
Never heard of this guy.
RoyaleKingdom78@reddit
I hate US and I denounce them for they bombed Serbia and invaded Iraq but lets be real, serbs deserved more than a fat boy for people they killed (they killed more people than Hiroshima bomb itself killed). Don’t make that shit dramatic. You guys look like Pakistanis and Turks praising each other, so annoying
Minskdhaka@reddit
Why not *Ритсудис? The "ou" in Greek is not a diphthong.
zog_i_zi@reddit
Yum, sweet taste of goatfkrs teas in comments.
🇷🇸❤️🇬🇷
determine96@reddit
Not known in Bulgaria, but we know that Greece refused to participate in the bombings and also refused giving its airspace for that.
Boring-Paramedic267@reddit
Very well known.
Evana_Iv@reddit
We know this like we know our enemies
Square-99@reddit
Yes hes well known
lastmonday07@reddit
The great faschos of the Balkans 1- Serbians 2- Greeks.
driftstyle28@reddit
Well known and loved❤️
WhatSheDrinks@reddit
He is well-known, there is a small basketball club and a street named after him in Niš.
He is active on facebook and people always send him birthday wishes and write comments. Glad our Church and State decorated Marinos with highest honors.
I made some Greek bar owners cry while telling about him - they didn’t know. I loved to walk or pass his mural in Belgrade to remind myself of good people. It is not in some most walkable area, but hope it is still there and looking fresh. :)
LenaLena93@reddit
His personal sacrifice is known and respected, as is Greece’s stance during the bombing.
That, along with some other events in history, is why, i, personally, would always think of Greece as our biggest ally.
OkArmy8295@reddit
Greek brother
Distinct_Travel6386@reddit
very very known
Infinite_Gur_7263@reddit
Very known. Next question.
amazingamy19@reddit
Very much known!