Keep this in mind when you want to buy a powerful emoto for your 14 year old child
Posted by potatosouperman@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 114 comments
A class 1 e-bike and an emoto that can fly down public streets at 50mph are very different beasts, but sometimes I think parents and teens don’t internalize the huge difference in risk and speed.
Fantastic_Key_8906@reddit
I find this to be wildy incorrect.
potatosouperman@reddit (OP)
Motorcycle travel being comparatively dangerous or another component?
Maleficent_Law_1082@reddit
Where do bicycles fit in here?
potatosouperman@reddit (OP)
About 79. So they are way riskier than cars, but way less risky than motorcycles.
Behbista@reddit
Wild part is that risk (bike) is fully offset by health benefits.
Need to improve our bike infrastructure. Bikes aren’t killing others or their drivers, the cars around them are. Stat should show killings, not incidental killees. Self inflicted motorcycle accents are a whole different category than “killed when rear ended by car”.
JoeyJoeJoeSenior@reddit
Too many bicyclists put themselves in danger unnecessarily just because it's their legal right to ride on public roads. I only go on public roads when there's not much traffic and there's a huge shoulder, so I can ride 8ft away from passing cars.
afraidofflying@reddit
They put themselves in danger because there aren't better alternatives.
Z9Cubing@reddit
They are not more risky than cars, especially if you ride on bike lanes. If you go on the highway, thats a different story.
If you fall from a motorcycle it means almost certainly big damage to you and the bike.
If you fall from a bike it means a bleeding knee or a broken shoulder if you fall on a downhill.
What is your source for the data of the post?
Due-Ad7893@reddit
I've ridden an average of over 1,000 km per year over 5 decades, much of it on highways. My experience is that city streets are far more dangerous than highways, though obviously the severity of a collision at highway speeds is likely to be far greater. City streets have far more intersections and distractions, and drivers seem to be oblivious to the presence of cyclists, even though I'm over 6' tall and usually wearing brightly coloured clothing.
potatosouperman@reddit (OP)
Risk includes getting hit by cars while on a bike. I’m sure bikes would be comparatively way lower risk in any riding environment without automobiles.
Dkazzed@reddit
Are there numbers for pedestrians?
potatosouperman@reddit (OP)
It’s low. From what I can find its between train and ferry.
Superb_Raccoon@reddit
But above "ISS"... =)
Proud-Suspect-5237@reddit
What introduces that risk though? Where does the risk come from?
Rogue_Wraith@reddit
Have you ever tripped over a crack in the sidewalk?
What if you landed wrong?
People doing silly, pedestrian, things every day.
dougmc@reddit
OK, yes, that sort of thing does occasionally happen, but the real answer is: cars.
Shadow_of_wwar@reddit
And in one Internet video that will haunt my dreams for eternity, a bus.
Hungry-Breakfast-304@reddit
Cars
wedstrom@reddit
Good lord we need real bike infrastructure 🤮
KatakanaTsu@reddit
Yeah, you can bet most of those deaths involves a collision with a car rather than simple user error.
GMN123@reddit
Yeah I'd like to see this in terms of deaths caused rather than deaths of passengers.
Outrageous-Log9238@reddit
My guess is +90% cars
Epledryyk@reddit
incidentally, this is also true for motorcycles - 65% of accidents are multi-vehicle and most of those are attributed to the other vehicle not seeing the motorcyclist
of the 35% single-vehicle motorcycle deaths, over 40% of those are attributed to alcohol
wturber@reddit
30-44 deaths per billion miles depending on the study. In the Netherlands and Denmark, the rate is about 1/3 of that in the U.S.
But the problem with comparing miles is that cars travel so much further than do bicycles. Should the exposure be counted in distance or time? Also, bicycle statistics are pretty low in quality. So you have to take them with a big grain of salt.
Risk mitigation on bicycles starts with creating distance away from cars. About 90% of bicycle deaths come from collisions with cars. So the reality is not so much that bicycles are dangerous but that riding them where cars could collide with them is dangerous. Cars are the actual cause of the danger. A semantic point for sure given that bikes typically must be ridden near cars. But I think it is worth noting that it is the cars that actually cause most of the damage.
Hungry-Breakfast-304@reddit
Are they more risky because of cars tho. Hehe
Laserdollarz@reddit
Yea but I don't like my kid
pandaSmore@reddit
Very good counterpoint. Can't wait to see OPs rebuttal.
Party-Confusion3728@reddit
🤣🤣 i love you're honesty!💯🤜🤛
Chuckpgh@reddit
Rodney Dangerfield's dad.
superchargerhe@reddit
redditorialy_retard@reddit
starg varg 80hp with sandals. make sure your kid wears shorts and a t-shirt, avoid helmets especially jaw protection.
Your kid will be 1km long in the asphalt within 3-5 days no more food to feed
Laserdollarz@reddit
Recommendations on life insurance? I ain't paying for a 1km-long casket.
Proud-Suspect-5237@reddit
As an unrelated note, have you ever heard of fruit roll-ups?
S3ANbz@reddit
Shocked that according to this data, a ferry is way more deadly than a plane
Shadow_of_wwar@reddit
Airplanes are rather safe, but additionally this is by miles traveled, the longest commercial nonstop flight in the world is 9,537 miles according to Google, and completes it in 18-19 hours, your average ferry would take ~11+ days nonstop at full speed to travel the same distance
pinkmanblues@reddit
This is always my pet peeve with the miles travelled safely comparison. Given how fast a plane travels it doesn't make sense.
potatosouperman@reddit (OP)
Commercial air travel is statistically the safest mode of transportation in existence. As for ferries I don’t actually know what makes them more dangerous.
El_Guap@reddit
What about private aircraft. They seem to have more crashes than I am comfortable with.
CobaltCaterpillar@reddit
General aviation is not the same as commercial aviation. Unconditional fatality rate is significantly higher.
There's also a huge, "it depends" in GA based upon specifics.
potatosouperman@reddit (OP)
Totally different ballgame and way higher risk, especially hobbiest pilots who just fly single engine aircraft on the weekends.
Pleasant_Cicada9528@reddit
That's it, I'm buying my kid a plane.
Strange_Amphibian989@reddit
Bro, this is from 2000 to 2009 lol it’s either gotten better or 10 times is worse either way we need a current
CuTe_M0nitor@reddit
That was before the EBike boom. So yes waayy worse now
RidinHigh305@reddit
Oh no the protectionist are out in full force.
tryptych99@reddit
I'll tell you one thing, no more ferry rides for my kid.
WTF
WholeEgg3182@reddit
I'm surprised how much more deadly trains are than buses
CobaltCaterpillar@reddit
Indeed, motorcyclists have special training courses and drivers license for a reason!
Also many e-motos these days accelerate faster than typical, more common motorcycles of prior generations.
xpinchx@reddit
Bro the motorcycle test is a joke. Drive around some cones and slam the brakes, that's it.
HumanContinuity@reddit
I'm not confident these kids in my neighborhood could pull that off in their e-bikes.
I feel like an old man every time I see them screaming along with a T-shirt and shorts and no helmet.
SexiestPanda@reddit
I mean, yeah they should be wearing a helmet at least. But it’s better they’re on bikes than a car
nokia_its_toyota@reddit
Have you taken a msf or CMSP course test? Like 4 people in our 11 person group failed it… it’s not as easy as just some cones and hard braking.
xpinchx@reddit
No, I rode without an endorsement for a year. I just taught myself in a parking lot and took it easy.
I eventually got the endorsement, and I forget everything I had to do (IL), but it was easy. A quick slalom, some swerves, 90 degree turns, and an emergency brake.
I always encourage people to take MSF, but getting an endorsement wasn't exactly an undertaking considering the risk we all take on.
Simple-Rub-4564@reddit
Take an MRT course, ride for a month, then take a track course such as Keith Codes Superbike School, or the Yamaha Champions school. I took Keiths and its a blast.
redditorialy_retard@reddit
it's more so they can sell you insurance.
Informal_Discount770@reddit
Passenger?
yarn_slinger@reddit
Is this the US? Do you have helmet laws? I believe Canada does so it’d be interesting to see more current stats from different countries with different laws.
El_Guap@reddit
Varies by state
El_Guap@reddit
Most motorcycles you see on U.S. highways are roughly 500–700 pounds, with a practical “average” landing around ~600 lbs.
Their mortality records are not a good comp for e-motos.
AlternativeResort477@reddit
My son just broke his arm on a child’s e-scooter (max speed 12 mph)
El_Guap@reddit
My mom just got a distal radius fracture when she missed a step coming from the family room the the hallway.
BlendedMonkeyStirFry@reddit
I broke my arm tripping up at 3mph
rexyoda@reddit
And then theres ppl falling at 100mph who just slid for 2 minutes and ended up fine
Scuttling-Claws@reddit
Oh yeah. I broke my arm on a razor scooter without any motor
Hungry-Breakfast-304@reddit
I saw a kid break his arm from a simple tumble.
D31337D@reddit
Let me know when a pedestrian, cyclist, ebike, or motorcycle kills someone in a car or truck. 99% of the time it’s the other way around. Automobile drivers are the problem, as they create the dangerous situation by being distracted or incompetent or drunk or worse. Saying it’s the motorcycles fault is like saying you being mugged by a robber is your fault for existing, and if you had simply not existed it would’ve never happened.
Outrageous-Log9238@reddit
Nah a huge portion of riders are reckless. I'm sure car drivers are at fault in most cyclist deaths though.
snoogins355@reddit
40k deaths annually for cars in the US. https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-estimates-39345-traffic-fatalities-2024
Hads84@reddit
Having looked at the statistics in my country a few years back, most of the motorcycle accidents were loss of control on a corner involving no other vehicles.
Caliterra@reddit
yea i don't get this. (most) Parents would never think to buy their kid a motorcycle. But an e-bike that can hit motorcycle speeds (40mph+) on surface streets, and with inferior brakes, no ABS, weak headlights and he's just wearing a skateboard helmet? sign them up.
Conspiracy__@reddit
Damn what they doing on ferries?
hodlethestonks@reddit
That's stupid. You really think they'll drive over 5million miles with that thing!?
/s
Separate-Command1993@reddit
Who the fuck is letting their kids go 50mph. My son has an emoto and it is capped at 23mph and that’s enough for him. Why should he and I get punished for riding safely?
Hot_Sale_On_Aisle_13@reddit
brb buying a Beechcraft Bonanza for my 14-year-old.
safest option statistically.
dougmc@reddit
General aviation is way more dangerous than commercial aviation, and these stats mostly cover commercial aviation (since so many more people fly commercially and commercial aviation tends to go much faster and further.)
To try and compare apples to apples, GA is generally around 4x as dangerous per mile as driving, so that would give it a score of about 29 on this graph.
viking_linuxbrother@reddit
Now do how most motorcyclists die? To cars is my bet. We had a kid die a few blocks from me on a ebike. Guy ran a stop sign and hit the kid. Ebike was blamed by the cops.
TappedHat@reddit
God damn i need glasses. Read that last one as Piano
m2keo@reddit
People are nuts who think general ebiking is actually more dangerous than being on a motorcycle. Sure we're less likely to be seen in certain situations but we're not constantly subjected to deadly speeds surrounded by distracted or just plain bad drivers.
So if I'm being cautious and riding with the mindset that my surroundings are out to kill me, I'm still way more likely to get killed on a motorcycle than a freaking ebike, one would think.
lee1026@reddit
That is almost entirely a function of how fast you ride. Some of these bikes gets fast, especially if they ignore legal limits, either in the factory, or later tuned afterwards.
nokia_its_toyota@reddit
Ebiking can easily be more dangerous than a motorcycle if youre riding the ebike on the road. Bicycle lanes that aren’t protected aren’t safer than taking the full lane in a motorcycle. E-bikes are safer only on separated paths imo. If you have to be on the road with cars, motorcycles are way way better.
SnuffyMcfluff@reddit
Anecdotally. I ride both. Neither seems to be safer than the other. If anything I might be a tiny bit safer on my moto as I am wearing a big heavy DOT helmet and body armor.
Auto drivers are eating, texting and digging through their center console's while operating 4k of metal. They'll kill my on my bicycle just as easily as on my moto.
neotekz@reddit
Check out this mass take over in Houston from Sur Ronster, even he thinks these kids are way too young. I dont get what their parents are thinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip67W3i6qj8
potatosouperman@reddit (OP)
Wow. That video has some insanely reckless clips in it. I’ve never seen something like that.
BWWFC@reddit
welp, that that... alomost twice as safe as my bus+subway? i'm getting plane to commute in!
Fair-Discipline-1005@reddit
I can't believe it has come to this... Parents, just buy e-motorcycles for your minor children, the sooner the better... Especially if they are the only ones in family....
CraziFuzzy@reddit
We need stats on (e)bike deaths on protected paths.
Skyjack5678@reddit
This is passenger deaths.... What ebike works for 2?
SPDBK@reddit
Everyone is a passenger
CraziFuzzy@reddit
the driver is actually a passenger as well - in the realm of statistics.
brraaahhp@reddit
Ahh passenger deaths, good thing I drive my motorcycle
gizzae@reddit
when gravity takes over, even the driver becomes a passenger
Ivek255@reddit
I get that motocycles are more dangerous than cars those are facts , but 70% of bike deaths hapen bescsuse they drive 2-3x speed limit and loose control or fly in a canal.. If we take the fact bicycles have about 70 deaths and bikes 200 cars 7 we try to calculate how many miles a year we do in a care comparet to a bike or a motorbike car end up same as motorbikes and bikes way dedlyer
OrganicParamedic6606@reddit
You absolutely do not have any data to support that 70% assertion.
Motorcycles are dangerous because they’re capable of high speed, invisible, often ridden with inadequate gear, frequently mixed with alcohol, and more. How much those and other factors contribute is nearly impossible to tease out, but pretending there isn’t valuable info here that overlaps with e-bike use is myopic at best.
-motorcyclist who takes safety very seriously.
D31337D@reddit
I was on my road bicycle in the right lane, getting close to an intersection that had a green light. A truck was passing me in the left lane, but there was a motorcycle stopped in that lane trying to take a left (he had a green but he was yielding to oncoming traffic). The truck slammed into the back of the stopped motorcycle at 30-35 mph and drug the two motorcycle riders under his truck about 100’ or so before stopping. I was riding directly next to this watching the lady passenger screaming , while skin was being ground off her body and bones were breaking. I waited for the ambulance and had to give a statement to the police. I will never forget what that sounded like.
The majority of two wheel deaths, both cycling and motorcycles, come from automobiles. Nearly 100% of automobile deaths also come from automobiles. The most dangerous thing on the road is an automobile driver, and if not for them, pedestrians, cyclists, and motorcyclists would be infinitely safer.
potatosouperman@reddit (OP)
You’re definitely right that automobiles create huge risk for everyone else on the road and that it would be a lot safer for others without automobiles on the road, but speed is still a huge factor for risk of serious injury and death for non-collision accidents.
Crashing on a bike or e-bike at 20mph is unlikely to kill you, but at 50mph your odds of survival are way less. The force of impact when you crash increases with the square of the speed. So doubling the speed results in four times the impact force.
D31337D@reddit
100%. I’ve crashed everything on two wheels, but the only major accidents I’ve had on the road were between me and other automobiles. Major concussion when a huge SUV hit me on my way to work. Before that an old lady pulled out of front of me and I smashed into the back of her car, then she hit the gas and flung me off the car back onto the road in front of traffic. Both fled the scene. I’ve had dozens of super close calls, all automobile related. Out of all of those times I only had one near miss that I caused, and it was a poorly lit back road with a blind corner and I went into the ditch. I have thousands and thousands of hours on two wheels and the vast majority of danger lies with the 4000 lb 4 wheel automobiles driven by cell phone zombies.
OrganicParamedic6606@reddit
This is kinda tautological, though. Of course automobiles are involved in most crashes on the road, because they’re by far the most common thing on the road. establishing that sounds neat but doesn’t mean much
D31337D@reddit
Lemme know when a pedestrian, cyclist, ebike, or motorcycle kills someone in a car by hitting them. I’m sure it’s happened but the rate is very very low. The most dangerous thing on the road are automobile drivers. If you put everyone on a bicycle, with no cars, how many traffic fatalities would you have?
OrganicParamedic6606@reddit
Again, that’s just a tautology. If you have more motorcyclists, you’d have more motorcycle-bicycle, motorcycle-pedestrian, and single-vehicle motorcycle accidents, even if the behavior of motorcyclists didn’t change.
I want more bicycle infrastructure, too, but what you’re saying doesn’t mean much because it’s a tautology.
Ass_feldspar@reddit
The most common fatal accidents are from oncoming cars turning left in front of a motorcycle. Yes, the cyclist speed is often a factor in this situation. So don’t speed on 5 lane stroads and always expect the cars not to see you
D31337D@reddit
This. A very close friend died a few years ago from an automobile with illegally dark window tint pulling in front of him. Driver couldn’t see him because he could barely see out of his window. Honestly sickens me when entitled drivers of dangerous vehicles think they can surf instagram, drive drunk, or just not pay attention when they are in control of something lethal.
elementp6@reddit
Life is dangerous, you squishy first world people forget that.
Hungry-Breakfast-304@reddit
What about bikes and stuff
elyn6791@reddit
There's really no point in comparing an ebike or emoto to an airplane. Or a ferry. Shouldn't the comparison, if you are tying to be persuasive, be limited to similar modes of transportation or at the very least modes of transportation with similar purposes?
You could present this to me and I could just dismiss it as manipulative.
thirtynation@reddit
You're preaching to the choir. This circle jerk is tired as fuck. The negligent parents you THINK you're speaking to ARE NOT reading this subreddit.
ImprovementNo1056@reddit
First of all a 14 year old is not legal to ride emoto 16 is the minimum
Game_Changing_Pawn@reddit
Instructions unclear - bought my 14 year old child an airplane for safety.
SenyorJones@reddit
Yeah, buy him a plane instead
WingHuge2185@reddit
Where are all of these ferry tragedies happening that I don't ever hear about?
mwbbrown@reddit
These stats have to be world wide, ferry tragedies are quite common outside the US and EU. Two so far in 2026
https://safety4sea.com/philippine-ferry-tragedy-death-toll-rises-to-42/
https://www.trtworld.com/article/08ed55a53ca8
Maleficent_Law_1082@reddit
They're rare but when something does happen a whole lot of people die
Strange_Amphibian989@reddit
Motorcycles are way different from an EMoto tho you’re taking a motorcycle on 95 not an e-bike and if you do, it’s definitely not as popular
SmithKenichi@reddit
yawn Another day, another salty eFred.
juan_rico_3@reddit
I'm glad that I didn't get my motorcycle license until I was 30. Strength and reflexes are still good but decision-making is way better than 20. Even then, riding a motorcycle demands a lot of attention in ways that most car drivers don't realize, particularly in challenging conditions: rain, night, off-camber corners, etc.
swiftpwns@reddit
Should be per trip not miles. Makes it easier to understand and quantify