The Affordable Car Is Dead. What Happened? | The New York Times (Gift Article)
Posted by Plaatinum_Spark@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 393 comments
Posted by Plaatinum_Spark@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 393 comments
karlchad1@reddit
The affordable “NEW” car is dead.
New is the keyword omitted by the headline.
gnopgnip@reddit
Where will affordable used cars come from if all new cars are expensive?
zinten789@reddit
Expensive cars are still cheap used. You can buy a $150,000 V12 7-Series for $10,000 now.
Some_Conference2091@reddit
They're cheap to buy, but expensive to own. German luxury cars are expensive to repair and maintain. I still want one though! 😆
zinten789@reddit
Of course, it was a hyperbolic example. I do not reccomend you buy an old 760 haha
karlchad1@reddit
New cars depreciate. As time moves on, the new cars become used. As time continues to move on, used cars become more affordable.
ThatsNashTea@reddit
I think their point is if people can’t afford new cars, the supply of newer used cars will dry up.
ChicSheikh@reddit
Looking at data from the US Bureau of Transportation Statistics, the average age of the US passenger car was 5.1 years old in 1969. By 1990 it was 7.6, by 2010 it was 10.8 and in 2025 it hit 14.5 years.
So in some ways, the 7-year-old car is the new 3-year-old car in terms of how much life it has left in it.
HegemonNYC@reddit
If new cars are expensive but used are affordable, that means steep depreciation. Which 1) isn’t really happening outside of volition EVs and 2) if it did happen would make the effective price on a new car even higher.
lee1026@reddit
Now that cars last about twice as long, the ratio of new cars to used cars changes drastically.
And the new car buyers trend rich.
Some_Conference2091@reddit
Part of the reason used car prices are higher is because less people can afford new cars, so they buy used. That increased demand on the used market pushes the price higher.
During the pandemic car companies cut production and raised prices to remain profitable. The used car market hasn't been the same since then.
Clover-kun@reddit
There are still new Nissan Versas rotting on lots for sub $15k
karlchad1@reddit
The car is not fancy enough for most people financing their brand new BMWs
Clover-kun@reddit
The Venn diagram of people asking for affordable new cars and new BMW buyers is 2 seperate circles
But yes a Versa is a tough sell when a used Civic, shit a used Model 3 can be had for the same price
karlchad1@reddit
The vent diagram of people who can’t afford new cars and are bmw drivers overlap materially.
Clover-kun@reddit
that's just r/BMW
5tudent_Loans@reddit
Even with more aggressive depreciation, the used market isnt exactly great either.. even the sketchy cash car dealers have switched to “finance with us” models.
hewkii2@reddit
The used market is fine for the customer who was previously looking for a cheap new car
ronchee1@reddit
Yes and no
Is used cheaper than new Yes
Is used as cheap as it used to be? Absolutely not
karlchad1@reddit
It’s relative. You get more bang for your buck / built in features buying a used Camry for $5000 today, vs buying a used Camry for $5000 a decade ago.
P10_WRC@reddit
You aren’t finding a decent used Camry for $5k now though.
munche@reddit
Quick search shows that $5k in Camry gets you a car from the mid-late 2000s with 200k+ miles on it
Professional-Form275@reddit
Might as well go for the contemporary Buick with <100k miles on it at that price
JournalistExpress292@reddit
Which is perfectly fine because it’s a Toyota and it’s just breaking in
karlchad1@reddit
You’re right with inflation. I’ll update it to 10k for comparisons sake.
cabbage-soup@reddit
Eh. My husband is in need of a new car soon (we’re spending more annually on repairs than what his car is worth). But there really aren’t reliable “cheap” used cars anymore. Even the old trick of buying out turned in leases is expensive. I can find 2023s for $30k or buy the same car new for $40k, and while there is a $10k difference theoretically, the used car loans are shit compared to the new ones. All the deals and incentives even out the new prices so you’re paying about the same for either car… so at that point why go used? And yeah you can get a 10yr old car for an ok price but then you end up with the same issue of spending way too much on maintenance and repairs.
lee1026@reddit
I have seen zero maintenance on my rav4 outside of standard oil, filters and tires, and it is now at the 10 years mark. (wow time flies)
half_regard@reddit
Everyone always trotts this excuse out as a good reason to repalce a car, and it's not.
cabbage-soup@reddit
When your commute is almost an hour one way, having reliable transportation is pretty important. If we’re spending that much annually it’s because the car is falling apart. I made the decision to replace mine when it turned off on me as I was merging into the highway…
JournalistExpress292@reddit
Cheaper to spend $10,000 on repairs than $40,000 on a new car.
cabbage-soup@reddit
Except I bought a $25k new car and then was able to be more reliable for jobs that paid 3x as much.. Didn’t save me money when I had to call off work too because my car wasn’t drivable. There was a lot wrong, this was 2022 so I barely remember a lot of terms at this point. I think my car shutting off was due to airflow with the engine. I also had a problem with my axels and could barely turn the car (it made a really bad screeching sound) that was the most expensive single repair I think it was like $3k but I also needed new tires because the uneven axel & alignment caused my tires bad damage too. Some other things I remember are my alternator, heater broke twice with two separate issues (I live in a icy/below freezing climate so this wasn’t something I could drive with), and there were a few other repairs I can’t remember the exact details of. Then of course regular maintenance like breaks and what not. I averaged $6k/yr on that car.
half_regard@reddit
so you're replacing your car because it's unreliable, not because of maintenance costs, glad we could get you cleared up on your logic
FireBlazer27@reddit
I agree. It’s way better to compare what you would have for a monthly payment on your new car plus the maintenance costs for it (because shocker, new cars still need maintenance) vs what you pay for repairs/maintenance on a car that’s already paid for. Short of replacing an engine or transmission the math very rarely comes out in favor of buying new over keeping what you have.
half_regard@reddit
but how else am i supposed to convince myself i deserve a new car?!
smokinbbq@reddit
I'm in the used market as well. Canadian (Ontario), so there are some differences in the markets, but it's similar in this experience.
Just today I looked at a 2018 Rav4 hybrid, at a used car lot, they want $30k for it. Brand new 2026 of that similar model, it's $40k for it. $10k difference, for about 100k KM, and a 7-8yr old car?! No thanks.
Add into that, with how our auto loans work here, you will almost always get a cheaper rate of loan when buying new from the dealership, than if you get a personal auto loan from a bank. That means that you've closed the gap even more on the total cost of ownership.
karlchad1@reddit
You’re quoting the top of the spectrum for used cars, and the bottom of the pricing for new.
If that’s how people are making their decisions to justify buying new…. No wonder it feels expensive
smokinbbq@reddit
I quoted the price for the 2018 RAV4 LE Hybrid, and the 2026 RAV4 LE Hybrid. "Same" car. Again, Ontario, so prices are going to be different from what you are used to seeing. The top end RAV4 (XSE, there is one level above that) in Ontario, starts at $54k.
karlchad1@reddit
If people won’t compromise for a used car, they won’t save money. It’s pretty straightforward.
Every car on the road is a used car. Used cars are fine. Certain brands and cars purchased new is basically like setting money on fire.
Funny how very few camry owners complain about financing.
smokinbbq@reddit
"Compromise" would be: "Okay, I can be just fine without the heated steering wheel, and I'll take this lower model to save some money.".
It's not.
Financing an 8yr old car is crazy. In the end, you are likely paying almost as much as if you got the brand new car. In my area, you are going to be \~7% financing rate with a used car (or higher), so you'll have a high monthly payment, but also an 8yr old car that is going to need maintenance, expensive maintenance, before you have it paid off.
karlchad1@reddit
Why is the cost of financing part of the equation?
Buy what you can afford. There is no world where buying a new commuter car is cheaper than used.
megacookie@reddit
They're quoting the exact same car model new vs used, it just happens to be one that doesn't show the typical amount of depreciation.
karlchad1@reddit
If it is the “same” car, purchase the cheaper version, and invest the difference in a high yield savings account.
I guarantee after 10 yrs, you will be financially better off with the used car.
karlchad1@reddit
Used car loans are buyer specific, and separate from the cost of actually doing business.
It’s like saying, paying cash for groceries is cheaper than paying and holding a balance on your credit card for the same groceries…. And saying that groceries are expensive bc of your cc interest.
munche@reddit
No, interest rates on used car loans are always higher than new car loans. And that's before you factor in that almost every automaker has financing incentives.
Look for car loan interest rates from just about any bank and you will get one rate for a new car, and one for a used car. The used car rate is always higher.
karlchad1@reddit
Financing is a separate article lol
To do a honest comparison, try to isolate as many variables as possible to make an apples to apples comparison, not an apples with good financing to apples with poor financing comparison.
munche@reddit
It's not good to bad
The same person, with the same credit rating, will always get a worse rate financing a used car. I've absolutely mathed out the difference on a lightly used version of the same car and found that the higher rate makes the actual cost savings a wash. It is 100% something any person comparing a used car price to a new car price needs to be factoring in, and the fact that most people don't is why manufacturers love selling used cars for a slight discount on the new car where they actually make more money than the new sale.
You don't seem all that familiar with the used car buying process considering how many posts you made about it.
karlchad1@reddit
You’re making the assumption that everyone has to finance the car (new or used) . Financing is an option.
InsertBluescreenHere@reddit
this was true for me in 2017 with trucks - was cheaper to buy new than to buy lightly used.
nondescriptzombie@reddit
In my first ten years as an auto tech, from 2000-2010, I saw 3 vehicles that had never had the oil changed. All made it to about 60-70k before the engine quit.
I've seen more than 3 vehicles that have never had the oil changed LAST YEAR. Even ones that the dealer changes for free! The warranty covers the first 50k and most first owner cars are sold at ~50k.
Used cars are the worst crap shoot they've ever been.
Some_Conference2091@reddit
No oil changes is just crazy! How do people not know they need them!
nondescriptzombie@reddit
It's either "they're a scam" people or people who know that their not-direct-injected not-turbocharged car will make it to 50k for them to sell to a sucker with the engine and transmission already on the road to an early grave. It's gotten so bad almost every new car (not from the American Big 3) comes with free maintenance for 2+ years, and even then people still don't do them.
half_regard@reddit
Heavens to betys! I haven't changed my oil over a year. Will the engine Granada??!
nondescriptzombie@reddit
My dude, your reading comprehension is poor. See that little "never" there?
In the last year, I have seen more than three cars that have never had the oil changed. Do you understand it now?
Jfmtl87@reddit
Though in this day and age, the oil never having been changed doesn’t mean that they haven’t paid a garage for an oil change…
boning_my_granny@reddit
Disagree; new cars come with a warranty, while used do not n
Some_Conference2091@reddit
that all depends on the make and the age. some have 7 year warranty
Alternative_Ear5542@reddit
My last two cars (Bronco and Tesla) were bought used and still had remaining time on the factory warranty + the ability to buy an extended warranty (Carvana EW and Tesla EW).
YellowFogLights@reddit
If you want to stick your fingers in your ears and only look at the price tag, sure.
You just have to ignore: Warranty, Financing, Leasing, Parts Availability, Service Availability, Manufacturer support, Test Drives, and Known vehicle history.
karlchad1@reddit
Relative to new cars, used car prices can have aggressive depreciation built into the prices, which makes used cars the smart choice.
Financing is really somewhat of a separate subject and is very dependent upon the buyer.
My point is that this article is an example of poor journalism.
joepierson123@reddit
Problem is you can't take advantage of that depreciation.
New car sells for 40K, depreciates to 30k after a couple years. But can you buy it at 30k? No the dealer will sell it at 35k
AwesomeBantha@reddit
in that case, it depreciates to $35k, not $30k
joepierson123@reddit
No the depreciation is to 30k because that's what the original owner received for his trade in.
AwesomeBantha@reddit
I don’t get what your point is? Dealers will not typically buy a vehicle for more than they can sell it for unless there’s an extra source of profit.
If I buy an NA Miata worth $5000 from a used car dealer, and then try and sell it back to them the next month, they’re not going to offer me the $5000 I paid, they’re probably going to offer like $3000-4000, and then list it for $5000 again. The car has depreciated $0 because it costs the same to the consumer. I sold it to the dealer for less than it was worth, but that’s not depreciation, that’s just me selling a car below market value.
karlchad1@reddit
Pricing means what you actually pay for something.
joepierson123@reddit
And depreciation means what you can sell it for
mishap1@reddit
If you have cash and the ability to find someone selling private party, you can find some deals. For most, the $30k car is financed because the original buyer still has a loan and the shopper doesn’t usually have cash to buy outright.
joepierson123@reddit
I was nobody is selling a 3-year-old car privately. And if they are they're probably asking 38k, because that's whatever they owe on their loan.
gumol@reddit
yeah, everybody says “buying new cars is bad value, buy used”. So it’s normal that cheap new cars disappear.
BattlePrune@reddit
Cash for clunkers also had a huge effect probably
Drzhivago138@reddit
I'm glad to see everyone has thoroughly disproven this lame take.
munche@reddit
That was in like 2008 dude I'm pretty sure those 1970s cars that were traded in back then aren't really having a significant impact on the used market of 2026
Some_Conference2091@reddit
Agreed! It has no impact because it was only 0.3% of the market and it was 16 years ago.
The used car market has higher demand because less people can afford new cars. That increased demand keeps prices higher. During the pandemic car companies reduced output and raised prices to stay profitable. The used car market hasn't been the same since.
(I sold my car during the pandemic and received twice what I paid for it)
Some_Conference2091@reddit
There are 255 million cars registered in the US.
Cash for Clunkers: \ About 677,000 cars, represented less than 0.3% of all vehicles on the road in 2009.
It was a small consumer subsidy that also benefited the auto industry, but it wasn't big enough to make a difference. Car sales in 2009 were still low.
The program was exaggerated as part of the anti-Obama political narrative, so some people have been convinced it had an effect on used car markets. It's become a modern myth that has been amplified by social media.
IguassuIronman@reddit
Cash for clunkers got rid of under a million cars, mostly junk, 15 years ago. Its impact on today's car market (if there even is one) is negligible
Some_Conference2091@reddit
Expensive new cars also put more pressure on the used car market. People can't afford new, so they buy used. The increase in demand reduces depreciation.
bippos@reddit
Renault says something else but then again America don’t get them
munche@reddit
Fast forward to 5 years and it'll be this response talking about how people can't afford cell phones
Oh sure, they can't afford *NEW* phones
When the scale slides to "The masses who need affordability just need to rely on a richer person buying it first then selling it cheaper" that's not a good sign
Some_Conference2091@reddit
The economy is fueled by consumers. Wealthy consumers account for 20% of consumption. If the rest can't afford to buy, then the economy will sink.
Jatacus@reddit
Yup. I’m in my late thirties and have never had a new car out of the four I’ve owned. Meanwhile I’ve seen friends get brand new cars and talk about their $800 monthly payment like it’s totally normal.
boning_my_granny@reddit
The high price of new cars flows down the chain into higher priced used cars as well. It’s a lose-lose for lower-end consumers.
REU512@reddit
This narrative is so tired at this point.
In 2010, a Camry LE cost $21,900. Adjusted for inflation, that is $32,700. Meanwhile a brand new Camry LE will set you back $29,000 in 2026. However, the new Camry has a hybrid motor standard with 50+ MPG, CarPlay and Android Auto, radar guided automatic cruise control, etc. etc.
Modern cars offer way more bang for your buck if you know where to shop. Stop buying full-size pick up trucks and depreciating German brands.
Ok_Field_5701@reddit
Shh. Pipe down. We don’t do facts on this sub, only doom and gloom.
cat_prophecy@reddit
and BMW, Tesla, and Mercedes are going out of business soon because no one likes Elon Musk, or everyone thinks their cars are ugly, or stupid.
adamfps@reddit
Wow that’s a very interesting take on manufactures going out of business.
Less-Mushroom@reddit
I do think the ballooning costs of student loans and housing have left less room in people's budgets for cars, making them seem more expensive. To someone who has had a mortgage since 2001 and paid off their student loans, if they even had any, you're right the cars have tracked closely with inflation and gotten better efficiency and equipment.
However if you factor in that housing has close to doubled in 10 years and more people are drowning in school debt.. it paints a clearer picture.
NoctD@reddit
Those 2, and rising healthcare costs. Credit and lending got a lot tighter after the financial crisis of '07-'08 too, so less easy money pricing new home buyers out of the market, while their credit is already in the dumps with unpaid student loans.
JournalistExpress292@reddit
Whose fault is that? The American people.
Rising healthcare and housing costs are not a new thing, people still vote in politicians and policies that support inaccessible healthcare prices, as well as policies that restrict housing buildings via restrictive zoning laws, etc.
LandsPlayer2112@reddit
It’s rather difficult for voters to vote against those things when the ballot does not present that as an option.
But by all means, let’s continue blaming our neighbors.
JournalistExpress292@reddit
I will absolutely blame the public.
cat_prophecy@reddit
We're paying a lot more interest than even 10 years ago.
The prime rate in April of 2016 was .41 and average car loan rates were 4.5%. Now the fed rate is 3.6% and car loan average rates are over 6.5%.
lee1026@reddit
As a homeowner and real estate investor, I would dearly have loved for housing to have doubled in the last 10 years.
Alas, I am not seeing it. Something more like 25%.
ThaddeusJP@reddit
Yeah but the thing is there is no car at that price anywhere in the US right now. MAYBE if you're paying outright cash. But if you've got 30k cash you're getting something nicer and financing.
Everyone shipped to a dealership has additional BS added not to mention dealer markups and taxes. And even stock you still need 3k cash down. Its more along 33k (which to your credit is what the inflation adj 2010 cost)
9e78@reddit
I just looked up a local Toyota dealer and they have new LEs listed for $25,724, so not sure what you're talking about.
ThaddeusJP@reddit
Listed. Not drive away price, is what I am getting at. If you go into the breakdown it assumes a downpayment, no taxes, and no fees.
t-poke@reddit
There's a dealer around me that has a Camry LE listed for $28,885. No downpayment.
Still doesn't include taxes, but car prices have never included taxes in advertised prices.
lee1026@reddit
The used car market is a thing. The fundamental problem why nobody makes a $15k car is that $15k gets you a certain quality of car in the used market, and all of the carmakers know that they can't do better at $15k.
One of the side effects of cars lasting a really long time is that there isn't a point to make a cheap new car.
My 05 corolla is still a hand-me-down somewhere in the family, and supposedly, it still runs like it was made yesterday. How is a new, cheap, car supposed to compete with this?
A_Right_Proper_Lad@reddit
Exactly this.
Back in the day a 7-year old car with 80K miles was about to start falling apart and a become major headache. On a lot of modern cars, it's just getting started.
Some_Conference2091@reddit
I don't see any new cars in the $13k to $15k economy car range anymore. In 2007 my Chevy Aveo5 was $8500 ($13.5k adjusted for inflation).
MSRP was often not the price paid for cars because there were large factory discounts in the past.
mgobla@reddit
You are just making up stuff, there are plenty of brand new cars offered under $21k (Sentra, Elantra, Trax etc), it takes secons to sort new cars by price on website like cars com , autotrader etc... And they are better equipped than a base Camry 16 years ago.
ThaddeusJP@reddit
I dont recall saying anything about Nissan. I was referring directly to the Toyota Camry
AwesomeBantha@reddit
Yeah, but that was also the case in 2010. Destination fees and taxes aren’t new, and I don’t think those were included in the 2010 MSRP.
I was able to find several in stock Camry LEs with MSRPs under $30k, excluding destination fees and taxes, within 50 miles of me, on the Toyota website.
ThaddeusJP@reddit
Same, but if you drill down the cost breakdown it factors in 2900 down - total price is 32-33k.
Saggy_G@reddit
Adjusting for inflation doesn't matter if wages haven't kept up with inflation. The ability for the average person to afford a car is less than it was on 2010. There's no debating that.
PM_ME_UR_DECOLLETAGE@reddit
These "inflation" posts never account for this.
Who cares if the inflation adjusted cost is similar. People have less buying power today.
WheresTheSauce@reddit
That's just factually untrue
PM_ME_UR_DECOLLETAGE@reddit
I don't think you know what the word factually means. Because you can find your statement is untrue with just a simple google search.
Inflation has well outpaced income growth.
WheresTheSauce@reddit
The irony of this is hysterical. The literal opposite of what you're saying is true and this is easily googled.
PM_ME_UR_DECOLLETAGE@reddit
I honestly can't tell if you're just purposely being obtuse or not.
Are you seriously suggesting that people are more well off today compared to say 30 years ago?
WheresTheSauce@reddit
...Yes. This is uncontroversial and unambiguously true. Median wages have outpaced inflation, and median real wealth has increased.
PM_ME_UR_DECOLLETAGE@reddit
Lol, guess we can just end it here then.
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
Here's median weeky earnings adjusted for inflation: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
It's far higher now than at any point in modern history, as in we make more post inflation today than any measured point in the country's past.
Here's autos compared to broad CPI: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1UIlW
Not only have wages risen faster than CPI, autos have risen slower than CPI as a whole.
Popular_Broccoli133@reddit
Which state are you referring to? It seems like many wages have outpaced inflation. So…. Can’t debate that either? Lol.
Lord_Vaguery@reddit
Be cool if our wages kept up with inflation.
WheresTheSauce@reddit
They have outpaced inflation
HegemonNYC@reddit
Even education costs are misunderstood. Net cost of college tuition has been slightly negative for decades. List price has gone up, but so has aid. The median college student is paying about the same as they did 25 years ago.
cat_prophecy@reddit
Are you sure about that?
Local state collect tuition rates have gone up $8,000/yr since 2001 and the percentage of students taking loans has risen from 32% to over 49%. If costs were flat and aid was up, I would expect that number to go down, not up.
HegemonNYC@reddit
Cost of living - the rent etc while at college - has gone up for college kids and everyone else. This cab increase loans.
As for the tuition, list price has gone up a lot but net cost has gone down slightly. Essentially, more aid makes the cost more equitable -needier students pay less, wealthier students pay more.
See Net Cost in the link https://research.collegeboard.org/trends/college-pricing/highlights?utm_source=chatgpt.com
gumol@reddit
they do
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A
PorTroyal_Smith@reddit
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html
Not if you actually account for the fact that the wealth gap is accelerating... the median earner is far worse off now.
RedAero@reddit
You do not become worse off just because someone else is better off.
PorTroyal_Smith@reddit
When goods are scarce you do, actually.
RedAero@reddit
Your poor ass isn't competing with Jeff Bezos for McDoubles.
Quallen@reddit
If you'd like to stop talking past people you should ask yourself what CPI has to do with standard of living.
Shinobi_WayOfTomoe@reddit
Better question is have wages kept up with the cost of housing?
xarune@reddit
Healthcare, education, and housing are the 3 areas where pricing has largely outpaced inflation and we really feel it. High housing costs in particular drive a lot of other costs.
It makes people forget places where inflation adjusted costs have fallen like cars, electronics, and food (longer timeline view on the food one).
Chambana_Raptor@reddit
Yep.
On average, people have bigger houses with less people living in them, and they are equipped with fancier appliances than they had decades ago.
Of course, you can find isolated counterexamples. And there's no reason not to seek improvement.
The real problem is that people want more stuff and want to live in high-demand areas. Technology makes access to credit easier, and puts lifestyles to be jealous of in your face 24/7, which makes humans overspend.
If we lived like our grandparents, we'd be filthy rich, but no one wants to live like it's 1950 because it sucked balls then and it would suck extra sweaty balls now.
At the end the of the day, COL is never truly going to go down to the levels people want in HCOL areas, because demand will always be high in cities with good school, public resources, quality of life, etc.
But just like the wages argument, no matter how many times economists say that, it won't be heard by the general public. C'est la vie 🤷♂️
WheresTheSauce@reddit
No, but no one would argue that they have. Inflation is a weighted aggregate percentage though, and housing is the largest single weighted component in the CPI
ThaddeusJP@reddit
Not for nothing but any data coming out of this current administration is suspect
el_ostricho@reddit
I don't know enough to explain it beyond this, but the fine folks smarter than me at r/Economics have assured me that this sort of data is very difficult to doctor due to the sheer number of 3rd party analysts who rely on this data for any number of business, financial institutions, and other organizations. If there was any funny business, you would have hundreds of economists and analysts blowing the whistle that the data is no good since their own interests rely on good financial data from FRED, BLS, etc.
lee1026@reddit
People dispute BLS data like its a sport, and there isn't a shortage of people disputing it. This has been true for as long as the BLS's existed.
But more to the point, the inflation data doesn't actually matter - since we adjusted the cars by inflation AND the median income by inflation. So if inflation was hidden much higher than BLS data, then cars have seen their prices crash, right inline with incomes.
The ratio of median income to the price of a camry have been stable, and that's the point.
lee1026@reddit
Feel free to limit yourself to data before the current admin.
Skensis@reddit
Sure, but beats going off just vibes and gut feeling right?
deja-roo@reddit
This data has been showing the same thing for decades.
Wages do keep up with inflation. Everyone just keeps being wrong about it even when the data is so available and easily digested.
IguassuIronman@reddit
"The data doesn't match my vibes, that must mean it's incorrect!"- a depressingly high percentage of reddit
WheresTheSauce@reddit
Just like every time Consumer Reports or JD Power show brand rankings which are inconsistent with preconceived ideas, they immediately attack the methodology rather than considering that something has changed.
willpc14@reddit
The BLS is mostly independent of the current political administration. It's just nerds doing math and looking spreadsheets.
stakoverflo@reddit
People have been countering with "Yea but wages..." for years now
WheresTheSauce@reddit
It's independently verifiable, but even if all of the data from January of 2025 until now was fabricated, that doesn't change the overall trend
TA-MajestyPalm@reddit
So many people aren't even open to changing their beliefs, no matter how much data/sources disprove them
InternetSolid4166@reddit
While this accurately represents real median wages, it hides a lot of different income groups under one very large metric. Inflation has impacted the price of necessities far more than luxuries. This means that those who spend a greater proportion of their income on necessities (the middle and lower classes) have been impacted by inflation to a much greater degree. For them, their income has not kept up with inflation. The wealthy, on the other hand, have been doing great. Arguably the primary dividing line is home ownership. Renters saw their rents skyrocket while home owners had their costs fixed in time.
tl;dr: wages have kept up with inflation for many people, but they have not kept up with inflation for many.
yobo9193@reddit
The graph you posted shows that weekly earnings have gone up by 8% since 2010. Is that keeping up with the inflation?
I wish I had the confidence to post statistics without understanding what they mean
Airforce32123@reddit
That graph shows real median earnings. "Real" means adjusted for inflation in economic terms. So wages have outpaced inflation by 8% over that time period.
What a hilariously ironic thing to say when you're the one who read the graph wrong.
WheresTheSauce@reddit
The irony of that comment is hysterical. I don't blame them for deleting it
ExorIMADreamer@reddit
You'll never convince the "just quit being poor" crowd with your facts. Not only have wages not kept up with the price of cars, everything else has skyrocketed as well.
WheresTheSauce@reddit
Or you could look at and try to understand the actual statistics.
NinjaLion@reddit
wages need to keep up with COL increases, raw inflation isnt the right metric to look at. Other have correctly pointed out that average wages have kept up with inflation. Median is a different story, and using either obfuscates whats going on.
This is easily seen here: "Middle-wage workers' hourly wage is up 6% since 1979, low-wage workers' wages are down 5%, while those with very high wages saw a 41% increase"*
Honestly the entire source article covers the issues very well, and its a bit disgusting how VERY clear the issue is. Cars are not to be blamed, they are a reflection of a broken economy.
https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/
Some_Conference2091@reddit
Whenever there's a post about cost of living and low wages, I see people on social media come out and argue that it's not true.
They say housing is bigger now or people are spending all their money on avocados.
Why are so many people who argue that wages aren't the problem over the age of 65?
lee1026@reddit
Housing actually have the same problem as cars: people who buy new are rich people, so people who build new cater to them. So you get concepts like "why don't we build a 3000 sq feet house with 2 bedrooms to cater to a rich empty nester who wants extremely oversized walk in closets the size of normal apartments?"
wip30ut@reddit
tbf wages have kept up with non-housing expense inflation. Rent & mortgage payments are killing the middle-class & lower-middle. I have yet to meet anyone who's cutting back on their Chipotle or energy drink habit.
Popular_Broccoli133@reddit
Wages have outpaced inflation. Which state are you in? This is an easily verifiable fact.
bflannery10@reddit
This is why unions are important and you should join one of given the opportunity.
Some_Conference2091@reddit
At one point 60% of Americans were in unions. Even nonunion shops had to increase wages to be competitive, because a majority of jobs had higher union wages.
LowSkyOrbit@reddit
My wife is in a union. None of the old timers fought to keep retirement benefits the same for the up and coming next generation. They saved their own asses and made the kids pay for it. My wife has to work at least 10 years longer and funds her own pension compared what her predecessors had.
We need laws passed for workers' rights and those who go into public service should get a decent pension no worse than those before them.
bflannery10@reddit
Your wife got screwed by bad leadership. That's the exception, not the rule.
i_am_the_nightman@reddit
This is the real main point. It’s not that vehicles have outpaced inflation, it’s that employers have done everything to not pay their workers living wages.
Yay Capitalism! /s
deja-roo@reddit
It's so easy to verify that wages have exceeded inflation. Like, trivially easy to find this information and there's plenty of sources that make it super easy to understand.
I do not understand how this "wages don't keep up with inflation" lie stays alive when you're on the internet, with access to any information you want.
Drauren@reddit
Depends on what you do.
zinten789@reddit
You buy depreciating German brands. I buy depreciated German brands. We are not the same.
snowtato@reddit
This is how you buy luxury. 50% off.
izwald88@reddit
The issue is that somehow a $21,900 car is less attainable to more people than it was in 2010. And that's actual dollars, not accounting for inflation.
As someone who is middle income for my area, a $30k car was a life altering amount of money and severely strained my finances.
cat_prophecy@reddit
The problem isn't that cars are expensive, it's that wages haven't kept up with inflation.
As you said, adjusting for inflation, cars are cheap as they've ever been. The people buying cars now are just not making as much money as our parents were or we have other expenses that were higher than theirs were. That and/or we're just used to seeing lower sticker prices and now $40k for a car seems like a lot of money compared to the $30K it was 10 years ago.
dayvieee@reddit
I remember buying a brand new 2010 Silverado crew for 28.5k otd, I doubt you can get a truck that cheap anymore even though you get a lot more standard features. I remember the triangle diagram of droning out the noise in the Silverado, the trifecta was interior rattle, mud tires/exhaust, and radio
Lighthouse_seek@reddit
Makes sense until you step onto a dealer lot and notice that they rarely stock base trims and also Toyota doesn't do custom orders
dayvieee@reddit
People who live in California most likely travel between Bay Area and so cal enough times that the whole Toyota dealership in California is up for grabs to find a car that is at least msrp(personally I would)
t-poke@reddit
I just went to Toyota's inventory search, punched in my zip code, sorted by lowest price and there are several Camrys under $30k within 50 miles of my zip code and several more in the low 30s.
They're out there, it might just require a bit of extra work finding it and some patience until the right one comes along.
REU512@reddit
Toyota doesn't do custom orders but they do build a lot of the base models. Camry volume is roughly 25% LE trim, 4Runner is roughly 40% SR5 trim, etc.
emp_mei_is_bae@reddit
If i had to redo my garage a base Camry would prob be on the top of my list
REU512@reddit
The new Camry LE is a phenomenal vehicle for what it is, and I highly recommend everyone go out of their way to try one as a rental car next time you need one.
absolute_imperial@reddit
Not sure why you were downvoted. The new Camry LE is the best value option on the new or used car market imo. Super reliable drive train, 50+ mpg, smooth driving with decent power delivery, adaptive cruise control for long highway drives, and wireless android auto/carphone. It's everything most people need out of a daily driver.
t-poke@reddit
I have spent so much of my life hating on the Camry that I don't want to believe you, but I absolutely do believe you. The current gen looks like an amazing value.
My neighbor just got one in the Ocean Gem Blue color and it's gorgeous.
Sjetware@reddit
Right, but you can't flex on instagram with a Camry
cabbage-soup@reddit
I guess idk any Toyota dealers who negotiate off of MSRP these days (some other brands do but I’ve never seen Toyota do it), meanwhile most people in 2010 didn’t pay anywhere close to MSRP.
coolmanjack@reddit
Toyota dealers absolutely negotiate off msrp. Just because they don't advertise it doesn't mean they don't do it. Go watch Delivrd on YouTube and his many Toyota negotiations. IIRC he has gotten $5k off on new Camries (albeit the higher trim ones), with smaller discounts on the lower trim ones.
Meunderwears@reddit
I got about 8% off a Tacoma a month ago. You just have to shop and be firm.
cptpb9@reddit
Know someone who got 3k off an SE (mid trim) heated leather seats and 50mpg with a toyota badge
I thought that was a great deal
cbf1232@reddit
I bought a new Toyota in Canada in 2005. The MSRP was the price. No negotiating. Same for any Toyota dealership within a thousand kilometers.
Some_Conference2091@reddit
That was more than 20 years ago. Market conditions have changed. During the pandemic production quantity decreased and prices increased. There are less factory incentives in 2026 and many dealers charge a premium above MSRP. Especially for in demand models. They're always going to charge as much as the buyer will let them.
cbf1232@reddit
The person I replied to said "most people in 2010 didn’t pay anywhere close to MSRP". I'm saying that (around here at least) that simply wasn't true.
Some_Conference2091@reddit
okay. I misunderstood the context, sorry.
MechMeister@reddit
I remember the GM "employee pricing." In the mid 2000s. My dad bought two new cars for almost the price of one. A Cavalier that was like $10k brand new and a Saabaru for $20k.
SatoshiBlockamoto@reddit
This is a great point and isn't captured by the data. Back then you felt like an idiot if you couldn't get invoice price, which was often thousands below msrp. Today it's MSRP +$1000 for mandatory paint protection plan and $1500 mandatory warranty.
When we bought a Sienna last year one dealer was MSRP+$8000. Others were +$2500. It took weeks to find one that would honor MSRP, and then they hit us with a $750 paint protection package. We finally said fuck it and paid up rather than resume the search.
cptpb9@reddit
Eh it depends on what you’re buying. You could find Honda and Subaru for invoice or less anytime in the past 18-24 months, Toyota very close to MSRP but usually at least 500 or 1000 off
And that’s not too far off the deals you could always get
REU512@reddit
We are still in the middle of a global automotive shortage that began in 2020 with the chip shortage and never truly ended. It honestly will take many more years to recover, if it ever does. Until then, OEMs are selling every car they build and don't need to rely on incentives to move inventory. Today, Toyota offers the best vehicle in numerous segments, so their waitlists are especially long and yea - you're not going to pay MSRP if you want it sooner. This is just the new normal, unfortunately.
cubs223425@reddit
Now compare all of the cars that were cheaper than the Camry to what they cost now (most of them have been canceled).
Mitch_Hunt@reddit
100%. Not to mention everyone crying wolf on the used market. In the past 2yrs I’ve bought 2 comfy, reliable, safe and economical cars for less than $3500 each (put about $1500 in repairs for each). The beauty of having a skill instead of woe is me.
woowoo293@reddit
I think one reason for the current angst over car prices is that for quite some time (several decades) car prices actually trended upward below inflation. And then they suddenly caught up during the post-Covid years.
That combined with the fact that manufacturers are now more overtly courting wealthy purchasers, which has distorted the market for new cars.
DanMasterson@reddit
now do salaries
REU512@reddit
Ok, in 2010 the average US salary was $41,600 which is $62,300 today adjusted for inflation. In 2025, average US salary was $62,000 - $63,000. It's basically bang on. Of course, this doesn't account for the fact that the cost of food, housing, and education have also all increased due to inflation, shortages, or greed.
However - I'd argue that cars have experienced significant technological advancement in this time that warrant any (perceived) increase in cost. Housing, food, and education have possibly decreased in quality while increasing in cost.
I just don't think we should be pointing fingers at automotive companies when they have actually managed to keep prices relatively flat along lines of inflation. Consider that in 2010, Ford had a net profit margin of \~5%; in 2025, Ford had a net profit margin of -4.37%. Them offering the Maverick at $28K while taking an $11 billion net loss for the year is damn near doing a public service.
xarune@reddit
I agree with you on everything except food. While we have gone through come covid cost spikes during covid and more recently, overall costs of food have long term trended way down and we have to spend less on it (just like cars).
Housing, education, and healthcare are really hurting.
PorTroyal_Smith@reddit
People keep repeating this, but average salaries will also just track to how much more money rich people are making... median salaries show the actual stagnation of the average earner and paint a much starker image about wealth inequality: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html
deja-roo@reddit
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A
Median wages are up too
Some_Conference2091@reddit
Averages are made up of extremes.
DanMasterson@reddit
i appreciate that. do you think average might tell a skewed story given the egregious increase in income and wealth inequality over the same period? do you happen to know median stats?
i think i generally agree with your interpretation on new vehicle value over time — explains why many folks recently are buying more car than they “need” — it just comes across as a good deal and bigger=better for most markets.
i’m also now curious about total payroll for the same period at those companies, and whether it’s kept up with inflation as well (excluding executive pay). I would hazard a guess that individual salaries, yes, but overall payroll, no.
Lezzles@reddit
Food is always such a weird one. Groceries fluctuate between 5-6% of our income, and has for like 70 years. A bad year sends it from 5 to 6% - that's what we saw in 2025. Back in the 1920s-30s, it was literally 25% of your pay.
munche@reddit
In 2010 you almost never paid anywhere near the actual MSRP and unless you were buying something super rare and sought after you generally got several discounts off of the MSRP price. It's wild how quickly people have adjusted to that being gone and it only disappeared during COVID.
woowoo293@reddit
Today, whether you pay MSRP or not varies wildly. If you buy from the big-3, you'll almost certainly get a pretty large chunk off of MSRP. For brands like Toyota and Lexis and particular models, it really depends.
Some_Conference2091@reddit
In 2008 my 2007 new Chevy Aveo5 had a discount of 25%. MSRP $10k, sale price $8.5k.
AtomWorker@reddit
Consumers have always been paying over MSRP for Toyota's, Honda's and anything else that's been popular. 2010 is not representative of normal economic conditions because we were still recovering from the Great Recession.
FesteringNeonDistrac@reddit
I didn't pay over MSRP for my Accord in 99, and that wasn't some sweetheart deal. I made them DX it, so it wasn't even off the lot. It's not been that way "always"
cbf1232@reddit
As a counter-argument, I bought a new Toyota in 2005 and all dealers within a thousand km were all charging MSRP, no negotiating.
Recoil42@reddit
It hasn't disappeared at all. Sub-MSRP came right back after COVID and the supply chain crisis.
Macgyver452@reddit
What if we could get less bang for our buck? Maybe remove half of the tech and sell a car for $25k?
REU512@reddit
nobody is stopping you from buying a Nissan Versa
N0_ThisIsPATRICK@reddit
Nothing that you said is incorrect. However, in 2010, almost every maindstream manufacturer had a sedan that competed with the Camry. And most had a sedan that competed with the Corolla and many had a competitor to the Yaris too.
Fast forward to today, and the Yaris and most of its competitors are dead. Ford, Chevrolet, and Chrysler have all axed their affordable sedans because SUVs make them more money. There used to be a plehtora of choices if you wanted an affordable mid-size or compact sedan. Those options are dwindling.
For arguments sake, I just pulled up a 2010 comparison of 18 mid-size cars. Of those, 11 have been discontinued with no replacement.
Yes there are still affordable options but if you want a cheap new car, your options are very limited.
absolute_imperial@reddit
That change is manufacturers responding to consumer interest. People stopped buying sedans in favor of crossovers. like 8 of the top 10 consumer vehicles sold every year for the last 6 or so years are crossovers or pickup trucks.
TheReaperSovereign@reddit
E46 m3 coupe was 45-47000 in 2005. 76000-79000 today
M2 starts at 69000 and is damn near fully loaded at 79k (tops at 81k i believe)
People may not like the looks but at least one has a subframe that wont snap in half
Some_Conference2091@reddit
It would be cool if they had a 6 speed manual.
TheReaperSovereign@reddit
The m2 can be had in a 6 speed manual
Skensis@reddit
Yup, the M2 is solid, and even a fairly base spec is a nice car to be driving.
BlazinAzn38@reddit
Yeah modern cars are safer, more powerful, more efficient, and better equipped for less money in real terms
worldmerge@reddit
Wages didn’t keep up with inflation.
TKInstinct@reddit
You can get a Nissan Versa for $17,500 right now.
johnknockout@reddit
You can also get a used current gen certified pre owned Camry (to be fair probably was in rental car service so maybe not the best shape) for around 20k
absolute_imperial@reddit
I would argue that rental service is a better bet on good maintenance than private ownership. People may drive their rental cars hard, but those cars generally get their maintenance done on time and to spec.
EastRoom8717@reddit
But in 2010 there were at least half a dozen options below 20k and some below 10k. All that crap you mentioned? I don’t need it, please just make a basic shitbox commuter.
EloeOmoe@reddit
Also a much more safe vehicle.
Terry___Mcginnis@reddit
Here in Europe like 12 years ago you could buy a full equip KIA Sportage or Hyundai Tucson for like 18-20k€. Now for that price you can't even buy the base 120hp manual version of those and salaries haven't gone up at all in many countries.
We are fucked.
browsk@reddit
Not that I’m in the market so not familiar but is that the price they actually sell for, or that marketing prices they love to use but no model under 35 is ever available at the dealer or something, just curious
Sea_Perspective6891@reddit
Anything under $40k I consider affordable at least when it comes to new cars. I think the Corolla was the last cheap new car I remember we had that was under $30k. I think the base price for a Corolla was around $24k but it's probably higher now. I personally prefer sedans around that size especially if they're cheaper & get better MPG over the larger SUVs & crossovers.
Compy222@reddit
Remind people of this all the time - if you inflation adjust my S2000 to my 2023 1LE Camaro...the purchase price is within $500. the 1LE has heated/cooled recaro seats, a giant V8, a digital rearview mirror, parking and blind spot sensors, and a massive set of tires/brakes. it's a better value per dollar with inflation into account. the problem of course is that wages haven't kept up with inflation.
cbf1232@reddit
Inflation-adjusted median wages are up since 2010.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A
anarchyx34@reddit
The difference is people are still making 2010 money.
cbf1232@reddit
Except that most people aren't. Inflation-adjusted median wages are up since 2010.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A
Constant_Chip_1508@reddit
Camry wasn’t the affordable car…
cbf1232@reddit
In 2010 a Corolla started at $18K, or $27K in today's dollars. A current Corolla starts at $23K.
REU512@reddit
Camry Hybrid LE is only $6K more than a base gas Corolla and it is twice as good of a vehicle, non-starter for me.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
They touch on this issue.
ExorIMADreamer@reddit
You are completely over looking the fact that adjust for inflation people have way less spending power, and the cost of everything else has skyrocketed as well.
deja-roo@reddit
Wages are up adjusted for inflation
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881600A
ExorIMADreamer@reddit
So is everything else!
cbf1232@reddit
You realize that's literally impossible, right?
REU512@reddit
Am I overlooking it? That's a completely different conversation and you could run in circles all day. The value of the USD and the official inflation rate are the only way to have a common language when talking about the cost of something over time.
In a vacuum, cars are objectively not becoming more expensive when you weigh inflation against the huge improvements to safety, efficiency, and reliability over the last two decades.
arbuge00@reddit
I think a lot of the anger people have on this topic should in fact be redirected at inflation.
Inflation, as a wise man once said, is the most pernicious tax of all.
OllieFromCairo@reddit
Another way of looking at it is that the 2010 Camry cost 1760 hours of median labor, while the 2026 one costs about 1400 hours of median labor. In median hours worked, the car now costs 80% of what it did in 2010.
Using the mean hourly wage gives similar results--1000 hours of mean labor in 2010 vs 800 now.
Nonononofucknono@reddit
I agree with the spirit of what you’re saying, but the bigger problem at play (imo) is repairability and cost to repair.
For a lot of base models there’s often less options for fixes and you end up forced to buy an expensive component that you might not have ticked an options box for. The warranties hide this in the early life of the car but when it comes to hybrid maintenance or god forbid anything battery related you feel like you’re paying for a luxury car’s service unexpectedly
Recoil42@reddit
Mate, cars got less repairable because they got more reliable. All you're doing here is underscoring that bang-for-buck has improved. Repairability was an important factor in the 20th Century because you had to repair constantly — the cars were made out of pig iron and cardboard, often literally.
DZello@reddit
Sedan are my vehicles of choice: aerodynamic, low insurance costs, no theft, cheaper on gas, low center of gravity, cheaper tires, lower resale value.
SUVs are a trap for boomers with too much money.
ace0702@reddit
Exactly. There's definitely an issue with people buying (financing) cars they can't afford more and more, but it's not like the cars themselves are getting more expensive. Buyers are just jumping up a model or a trim or two and then adding more options than are realistically in their budget. Keeping up with the Joneses
My 94 Miata M cost over 18k brand new which would be over 40k adjusted for inflation. This was the top of the line spec, which in 94 meant you got stuff like power windows and cruise control. Now a top of the line Miata soft top costs about 38k and gets you things like heated seats, advanced infotainment, safety features galore, etc, etc. Not to mention about 10mpg better gas mileage, 50 more horsepower, and an extra gear in the transmission
Jack_Bogul@reddit
If you paid close to MSRP back then you were a sucker
Plastic_Willow734@reddit
I mean wages don't follow inflation at the same rate as prices but still- I agree, go ahead in sit in a base model Camry from 2010 and a new one today and you'd think you're in a Rolls Royce. You get WAY more for your buck today than you did 15+ years ago
ThaddeusJP@reddit
Yeah but the thing is there is no car at that price anywhere in the US right now. MAYBE if you're paying outright cash. But if you've got 30k cash you're getting something nicer and financing.
Everyone shipped to a dealership has additional BS added not to mention dealer markups and taxes. And even stock you still need 3k cash down. Its more along 33k (which to your credit is what the inflation adj 2010 cost)
Theseus-Paradox@reddit
You know what hasn’t kept up though? Wages, that’s what.
iwantsleeep@reddit
Can’t be true - I have dozens of downvotes for making essentially the same comment on a thread from yesterday!
srtftw@reddit
The affordable “new” car is dead.
bstyledevi@reddit
I love that these two posts showed up like this.
phoenix823@reddit
Meanwhile the brand new Nissan Sentra can be had in the low 20's and we're just going to ignore that. It's not the cars that are the problem, it's the buyers.
ZaheerAlGhul@reddit
Yeah people do not want a base model car. People would rather buy a used car with a higher trim than be perceived to be poor.
phoenix823@reddit
And that insecurity is why they are actually poor. How's that for irony?
Meunderwears@reddit
Look at any personal finance YouTube account and you will see loads of people making well under $100k a year with $500-800/month car payments for 72+ months with interest in double digits. It's the most insane choice to look cool that I can imagine because on top of the affordability question, a car is a depreciating asset.
wip30ut@reddit
i think the article is implying that 20 yrs ago every manufacturer had a Sentra competitor. But today it's just Kia? The entire categories of compact & subcompact budget cars are gone, they're just not profitable to be made, even if manufactured & imported from 3rd world nations.
phoenix823@reddit
The article has the argument backwards. People are choosing to spend more and more of their income on high margin products like trucks and SUVs. The manufactures are doing what makes economic sense and are producing more vehicles like those. In order for smaller, cheaper cars to be profitable manufacturers have to spread the cost of their design and engineering across more sales. And it's not just Nissan and Kia, there should be 10x as many people getting into Civics and Corollas. The options are there, but the culture of debt and ego stroking stops too many people.
Cardiff-Giant11@reddit
exactly!
i had to look it up but a 2026 sentra starts at $22,600.
the base sentra in 2013 started at $15,990 which is…wait for it $22,700 in 2026 dollars. not to mention given nissan’s financial position , you can probably get one for considerably less.
is the sentra a desirable car? not really but the whole article is railing about the need for affordable basic transportation. the sentra fits that bill.
i get there’s other factors that are leading to a real affordability crisis for many but for the author to chalk it up to those greedy carmakers exceeding inflation is a childish understanding of it all.
phoenix823@reddit
You hit the nail on the head. The problem is with people's definition of the word "desirable." A desirable car is a reliable one that lasts 10+ years that people can afford. Pretending you need an SUV or a pickup when the Sentra can do 95% for less than half the money IS the problem.
Recoil42@reddit
Article compares a $2,100 1973 Civic base price to a $30,000 2026 Civic average transaction price, noting size/feature bloat. Except the 2026 Civic still has a base price of $24,695, so.... they're bullshitting. They've literally left the Honda Civic out of their grid of <$25k cars halfway down the page.
lilaustonmattsue@reddit
It's basically just a paid ad for byd.
Besides the Civic, per search for new car listing in my area max $25k:
Chevy Trax Chevy trailblazer Buick Encore GX Nissan Kicks Kia K4 Toyota Corolla Vw Jetta (!) big discount - there's loads available at 24k Hyundai Elantra Buick Envista Kia Seltos
Two chevys and two buicks left off so they could include the "Detroit won't sell cheap cars" line. I ignored the one off manager specials, there are many of each of these sitting on lots.
I have an economics degree and am embarrassed for this person to have published this. Nyt and Brookings should uphold a higher standard. cherry picked price levels, seemingly random interchange between base and average prices, and huge unsaid assumptions about what a BYD would cost if available in the US. (If it could even pass a crash test)
Recoil42@reddit
At the same time, you're repeating propaganda-style disinfo: We're talking about the BYD Seal being offered in Australia — of course it would pass crash tests in the US. The differences between NHTSA and ANCAP tests are entirely superficial.
lilaustonmattsue@reddit
The Aussie spec Seal would just barely make it under $25k base price based on exchange rates. Making the assumption there are no increased costs in shipping the car across the Pacific vs the relatively short journey to Australia.
No one denies byd could sell a 30-35k average cost vehicle in the US. The article is implying the AVERAGE out the door sales price of a byd seal would be under 25k in the US. To do that the base price would need to be less than $20k. the Atto would be the model that might fit into the paradigm presented. The crazy cheap evs are Chinese domestic market and don't pass Ancap tests either.
All this to not mention that cheap evs are a terrible option for low income working class folks who usually rent and don't have access to cheap overnight charging at home. Then it comes back to average cost of ownership comparisons which again was lacking from the source article. the cost to charge a $20k Atto at 50¢/kWh vs 10¢/kWh is also a consideration.
Recoil42@reddit
Mate, this just isn't true. Again, you're just spouting the propaganda line here. I'm sorry, but if we're going for truth, we're going for truth: The Atto 1 (Seagull) is literally the cheapest car BYD makes, and it has a five-star (!!!) ANCAP rating.
lilaustonmattsue@reddit
I Literally said the Atto would fit the criteria.
Recoil42@reddit
Atto is an entire product lineup. You didn't actually say anything coherent before your comment about safety. If what you meant to say was that the Atto 1 is the cheapest model you'd expect to see on the international market with cheaper models from other manufacturers being CDM, then that's technically correct, but you're also losing coherency when you try to roll that up in a conversation about international pricing — pricing on international markets varies with exposure and scale and taxes/regulation conventions within that market itself. What a model currently offered on the Australian market can't be gleaned from doing a straight AUD-US conversion.
Fragrant-Menu215@reddit
So in other words it's a pro-China propaganda piece. Surprise surprise.
Recoil42@reddit
If it were propaganda it would be a hell of a lot more competent than this. This is dumbfuckery.
Yankee831@reddit
Nah it’s definitely tied into a narrative they’re trying to spin for someone’s interests.
Recoil42@reddit
The interest is their own. Brookings is an establishment neolib think tank. They're trying to rabblerouse against the admin, which has plenty of other legitimate things to rabblerouse against.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Huh? There's plenty of new cars available under 25k
MikeExMachina@reddit
3 cars (Sentra, Elantra, & Corolla) in base trim levels that you will never see on a dealer lot is hardly plenty
t-poke@reddit
There are dozens of base trim Elantras at dealers around me.
I searched within 50 miles of my zip, sorted low to high and didn't cross the $25k price until Page 15.
LovelyDae94@reddit
I see Corolla LE's everywhere, a quick look at the dealer I bought mine shows 10 in stock around 23-24k. HCOL area too you can probably get them cheaper elsewhere.
MikeExMachina@reddit
We’re talking about products not real estate, what does cost of living have to do with MSRPs? You can buy a car from any dealership in the US.
Quicksilver2634@reddit
Cars are generally sold where the buyer lives. Buyers with more money can afford to pay more. The dealership in a HCOL area will spend more on taxes and wages than in a LCOL area. Thus, you would expect a Corolla sold in San Francisco to priced a little higher than one in Des Moines Iowa
Lower_Kick268@reddit
You can get a Sentra with some options under 25k, same with a Chevy Trax, Hyundai Venue, Honda Civic, VW Jetta, there's more I didn't mention. If you're alright with base models you can get Mazda 3 under 25k too.
MikeExMachina@reddit
Yeah you’re right, I referenced a shitty article that had the Jetta and civic over 25k and didn’t even mention the trax or venue. It’s not as bad as I thought.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
We got my dad a Corolla hybrid XLE (top trim) for 27k. Deals exist.
long_fish3000@reddit
no one wants a stinky sentra
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Then get one of the other cars under 25k, also the new Sentra is fantastic, highly recommend trying one before you knock it
long_fish3000@reddit
oh i know the sentra is a good buy for the money im just shit posting
Ketchup1211@reddit
I love my brand new Sentra for what it is. Cheap, new, well equipped and good on gas.
ronchee1@reddit
No one wants to steal a Saturn
Vazhox@reddit
COVID happened
mustangfan12@reddit
Cars became too reliable for cheap cars too make sense for most new buyers. Back in the old days when cars struggled to make it too 100k miles it made sense for buyers to buy cheap base model cars.
Now that cars can easily last past 200k miles buying a cheap base model car doesn't make sense except for rental car companies. And they are still companies that make cheap new cars like Nissan and even Chevy too some degree with the Chevy Trax
buttsnuggles@reddit
I had a 91 Honda, 93 Nissan and an 05 Ford that all easily made it to over 100k with just maintenance ans minimal repairs.
80’s Volvos and Mercedes were absolute tanks as well.
I disagree with your premise.
danforhan@reddit
I mean you're objectively wrong - the average age of cars on the road in the USA has increased from 9 years old in 2000 to 14 years old in 2025
liamd99@reddit
Could that be because people are less well off and are forced to keep cars for longer?
I'd say its probably a combination of both, older cars were not that terrible, and the increasing costs push people to drive older cars.
lee1026@reddit
My first car was made in the 80s. My dad gave it to me with color coded tape on each fluid tank, and a trunk full of various fluids. Instructions were to weekly check which one have leaked badly enough to need a top off from the various fluids in the trunk, all color coded, and every week, something needed to be topped off.
It was awful, and somehow, I was even able to sell that thing for money at some point in the early 2000s, because it runs well enough if you just refill the right things, weekly.
I doubt something of that quality could even be given away for free these days.
Recoil42@reddit
Older cars were so terrible owning a Haynes manual was a must. We don't need to play this game. Everyone knows old cars were atrocious, and everyone knows they have improved significantly.
FalseBuddha@reddit
Or the internet didn't exist? You couldn't Google the problem when your Nova broke down in 1973.
Recoil42@reddit
The key here is you're writing about "when" your Nova broke down in 1973, not "if". Many modern cars will make it all the way to 200,000 miles without any major issues, which is not something that ever happened in 1973.
mustangfan12@reddit
Yeah even going from 2000s to 2010s there's a massive improvement in interior materials in many cars
Between my 15 Mazda6 and 06 Mustang Gt convertible premium the Mazda6 has way nicer interior materials
zummit@reddit
People are richer wrt inflation
buttsnuggles@reddit
Age does not have a direct correlation to mileage.
What is said is that it’s not weird for older cars (80s and onwards) to be able to do more than 100k miles.
andyr072@reddit
Yes because the cost of cars has gotten so high that people are keeping their cars longer that's why you're seeing older cars on the road.
Recoil42@reddit
People are keeping cars on the road longer because.... they last longer. You've got the causality ass-backwards.
mustangfan12@reddit
It is partially true because of how expensive new cars are, but the main reason why demand for cheap base model cars is down is because cars can last a long time now
Patamon4@reddit
Is that a product of them being more reliable? Or is it because the higher cost of cars is forcing more people into repairing old cars rather than buy new. That metric doesnt measure reliability.
FalseBuddha@reddit
That's a pretty small sample size. There have been millions of cars produced over that same span. Your three personal vehicles are not representative of global trends.
Sir_Sir_ExcuseMe_Sir@reddit
Survivorship bias
Fragrant-Menu215@reddit
This is the 100% correct answer. Why buy a depressing penalty box of an economy car when the same money can get you a barely-broken-in fully-featured car?
The dirt cheap stripper econobox was a product of an era where cars just didn't last. A time when 5 years or 100,000 miles was about all you could expect to get from a very well maintained and cared-for car. Buying used was just not really an option and something only done by the most desperate of people. And those people paid pennies and treated the cars as disposable.
AwesomeBantha@reddit
Yeah, this is something that surprises me about the European car market… there are so many poverty pack base spec cars out there for under $20k, but for the money, I’d much rather buy a much nicer used car.
I wonder how much of that has to do with corporate leases and employer benefits, pretty much nobody gets a company car here in the US but 2/3 of new car sales in Germany are corporate leases.
Fragrant-Menu215@reddit
The reason you see those penalty box poverty spec cars is because European inspection regulations force cars off the road long before their actual expiration date.
Storm_Chaser06@reddit
Just buy a new hybrid Corolla, that’s very affordable. Idk what these people are complaining about.
attiladerhunne@reddit
The new Twingo will be less than 20K€, that's affordable somewhat.
Syncrion@reddit
I don't think it's honestly changed.that much.
There are fewer options at the affordable end of the market absolutely. Cheap cars are hard to produce, you make it affordable with high volumes and that's often a much greater gamble for a manufacturer to take on.
That being said, a 12k car in 2000 adjusted for inflation is 23k today. There are cars at that price, not many sure. But it's kept steady with inflation.
That being said, wages not keeping up is a whole other problem.
moldibread@reddit
Wages on the low end have not increased, which is who cheap cars are for. the "increase in wages" people in this thread are talking about are skewed towards higher wage workers.
Skensis@reddit
They're increased most of all
https://www.epi.org/publication/swa-wages-2023/
moldibread@reddit
cool now do 20 years
gumol@reddit
wages increase faster than inflation
TangerineBroad4604@reddit
But not housing, education, and healthcare, three of the biggest and most fundamental needs
pdp10@reddit
Three areas known for stagnant productivity, and from suffering from Baumol's "disease".
TangerineBroad4604@reddit
Perfect
WheresTheSauce@reddit
Those things are all accounted for in inflation. Inflation is a weighted, aggregate percentage
TangerineBroad4604@reddit
Yes and some things have not kept pace with inflation like electronics while others like housing, education, and healthcare has outpaced it...
WheresTheSauce@reddit
Did you miss the "weighted" part?
TangerineBroad4604@reddit
Nope, do you understand what that means?
Tell me with a straight face that wages in the Bay Area has kept pace with housing there.
WheresTheSauce@reddit
Obviously some places are more or less affordable than others. That's not inconsistent with the reality that the median numbers, i.e., the ones least affected by outliers, show wages outpacing inflation which accounts for housing, education, and healthcare.
Housing has dramatically outpaced the average rate of inflation everywhere, not just the Bay Area. The median wage in the Bay Area though is nearly double the US median wage. While there is obviously a greater burden of housing cost in the Bay Area vs. the rest of the US (and is an extreme example), the percentage of income spent on housing on average is not dramatically different in the Bay Area vs. the US at large.
It's really not "dropped" in a real sense looking at the big picture, and certainly not in the time period that people argue cars were more affordable. 2020 was a massive spike due to statistical anomalies from Covid, followed by severe inflation in 2022 also mostly due to aftereffects of Covid.
Skensis@reddit
Which are all taken into account within inflation.
Despite those going up, people are making more beyond that.
TangerineBroad4604@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1skf0r6/comment/ofyuw7p/
Salink@reddit
So real wages are increasing, cars are a major factor keeping inflation down, everything else is driving inflation up, and we're supposed to be complaining about car prices?
TangerineBroad4604@reddit
The article is saying cars are getting pricier. The average new car price is outpacing inflation, especially in the last few years between the COVID market dynamics and continued premiumification across the board
Yes, when your share of wallet outside those three big costs is shrinking, people will complain about other big costs in their lives
Syncrion@reddit
I stand corrected on that point, thank you for sharing.
I do think it points out though that while average prices for cars are up, it needs a more nuanced approach. Are cars more expensive or are people spending more on their cars? But of a chicken or the egg sorta thing.
elVanPuerno@reddit
What country?
gumol@reddit
USA
JurboVolvo@reddit
Trains
TaskForceCausality@reddit
Greedy dealerships and entitled customers.
Carmakers can build affordable cars, but Kunkelman Chevrolet Kia won’t stock those. They’re stocking the mid or top tier trims and warping the finance numbers to make the monthly payment work. Which brings us to entitled customers. Not a happy point to make, but there’s a lot of folks driving entry level BMWs and Mercedes who should by budget and income be driving Corollas.
But they’d honestly rather die than drive a car they can afford , so instead they’re paying $600 a month for 72+ months on a fancy car because “#mannifest”. And more power to em. Life’s all about choices, and someone else overspending on a car is not knock to me.
Yankee831@reddit
Idk you can custom order whatever model you want from Ford and the base XL Maverick is not a major driver of the sales numbers.
Monster_Dumps_2026@reddit
Okay so this article is basically blaming Tariffs and Tech.
No mention of the 100s of extra saftey regulations that put more material into the car which costs more money.
No mention of the free for all that is auto lending allowing for people to purchase more luxury packaged cars and lowering the demand for price competitive models
Heres the thing. Lets remove government saftey regulations. No rear view camera required. No proximity sensors required etc etc. Then we can talk about emissions standards which forced more companies to go from NA motors to force air motors adding more parts, more money and lower resilience.
If our goal is to once again provide cheaper ice vehicles, you need to let american companies provide lower safety cars again and let the saftey Star ratings do their thing.
Now lets talk electric cars
Yea thats all tariff BS. The reason chinese cars sucked in the past was because the most complicated part of making a car was drivetrain. Electric cars throw that out the window. Now anyone can build on the reliable skate. And BYD has done just that.
The only thing stopping BYD from flooding our EV demand is tariffs.
So all in all. Government regulation and big banks are why cars cost so much now.
Make lending stricter and force people to be able to put 25% down on a vehicle, and i guarantee that car companies will have to produce cheaper vehicles in order to still sell volume
costafilh0@reddit
LIES
If that were true, everything else would still be affordable, except cars.
They love to create excuses, some of them are actually true.
BUT
REALITY IS
The US Dollar is worthless.
That's why everything with very rare exceptions, is very expensive.
That's why many things ceased their downtrend of getting cheaper and are becoming more expensive. Clearly verifiable in tech, that used to get cheaper over time, not anymore.
You can thank every governament since 1971 for that.
gumol@reddit
US Dollar is worthless? What?
Gorgenapper@reddit
He can send me his life savings in USD, I'll independently verify his claim that it is, in fact, worthless.
jomartz@reddit
Affordability? I still remember the .99 cent Big Mac…
GolfGodsAreReal@reddit
The affordable life is getting closer to death
Any_Sale2030@reddit
A lot of people are doing well. Rather than complain follow what they do.
GolfGodsAreReal@reddit
Key Statistics on Financial Struggle (2025–2026):
Just stating facts not complaining
IguassuIronman@reddit
Facts from where, exactly?
Vhozite@reddit
AI from the looks of it.
ace0702@reddit
Both are true. On one hand, the wealth gap is larger than it's ever been, meaning the rich are rich and everyone else is poorer. However, there's also an issue with the majority of people working unskilled labor jobs (restaurants, retail, etc.) and complaining they aren't making as much money as someone who went to trade school, college, etc. and is working in a skilled field that actually warrants higher income. There is absolutely no reason that someone who walks around to tables, talking to people and carrying plates needs to make as much as someone who studied engineering for 4 years and solves complex problems all day
Some_Conference2091@reddit
My 2007 Chevy Aveo5 was $8,500 (MSRP $10k) In 2026 dollars that price is $13,500 (MSRP $15.9k)
In 1973 the Honda Civic was $2,100 \ In 2026 dollars that price is $15,100
In 2026 the average price of a new car sale is $50k
In 1968 minimum wage was $1.60 per hour In 2026 dollars that is $15 per hour
I'm not seeing any new economy cars on the market. American manufacturers are not interested in that segment, but other countries do have access to economy cars.
thegalli@reddit
People's wives is what happened. Keeping up with the joneses is what happened. Unnecessary tech and overburdened safety features is what happened. The search for that last .5mpg making cars more mechanically complex is what happened.
Privateer_Lev_Arris@reddit
Chevy Trax is pretty affordable.
PNWrowena@reddit
And that article mentioned Chevy Trailblazer at Trax price, which makes me question the accuracy of anything it says.
Mortoimpazzo@reddit
There were not enough sales, affordable car was replaced by 2W.
MetallicOpeth@reddit
I'm more worried about the manufacturers slowly destroying the DIY industry. That scares the shit out of me way more than overpriced shitty new cars
mgobla@reddit
People did NOT buy Mitsubishi Mirage, Chevrolet Spark, Kia Rio etc. People do NOT WANT to buy cars like this. Why force them to buy something they do NOT want? There are plenty of good used cars in this price range.
There are still NEW, unsold Mitusbishi Mirage sitting at dealers for $15k , no oney buys them.
Also most cars are offered with discounts, there are brand new cars offered under $20k (Elantra, Sentra etc), this is reality.
Also what $20k car from 10 years ago offered as much interior space as a new Chevy Trax?
wolfpack_57@reddit
The funny thing is that the whole article sets it up as a crisis so we NEED to allow Chinese cars and other comments here nicely dispel that notion
Any_Sale2030@reddit
We should allow Chinese cars. Americans only want to make big pickups and SUVs. I don’t want a big car. Detroit is too arrogant
Skensis@reddit
Make big cars in China, win win right?
Imagine getting an F150 with a V8 for under 30k?
DanMasterson@reddit
If we consider burning way more non-renewable resources and cutting even more labor in the US a win win, sure.
Personally I think that trend is kinda the lynchpin of the entire political crisis we’re in globally, but sure imagine big stuff cheap with no consequence!
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Not going to help if Chinese cars are sold under dealerships. Dealerships can find any excuses to charge their cars with more prices.
When BYD decides to go dealership business in Canada, it tells you probably not able to get really good deal Chinese cars.
mrchowmein@reddit
The affordable car is NOT dead. Salaries stayed stagnant. Many things got cheaper over time yet still feel expensive because people’s salaries grew less than inflation.
karlchad1@reddit
People who make poor vehicle choices tend to complain the loudest about repair bills and affordability.
But you know who rarely complains, the boring Camry driver.
ope_______@reddit
Brand new Chevy Trax is $23.5k and is a really nice little car
chrisjyardley@reddit
This isnt complicated, unions who drove wages up and the consumer wanting more and more features come at a cost. Wages up, good, extra features and more complication, good. But then people complain they cant do it for nothing. Then celebrate the cheap Chinese EVs who come from a space where R&D is constantly stolen, pay slave labor & have very very lax copy right laws. So the argument is the same as the illegal workers discussion. Everyone likes to pay less, unless its their salary & then complain things cost so much to manufacture
AndreLeGeant88@reddit
Unions are not why car prices have gone up. In fact, car prices have been close to official inflation numbers for over 30 years. They are one of the few things that haven't gone up considerably. They're also much better made / longer lasting than in the past, meaning a used car with more features is often a better buy than a new econobox.
chrisjyardley@reddit
Didn't just say unions. I literally mentioned features and complications.
Skensis@reddit
People don't want cheap cars, our taste have gone from meat loaf to steak and most Americans don't want to look back.
TheEvilBlight@reddit
"why build affordable"
PuzzleheadedSky9536@reddit
Most budget cars in the US are dead because they were small city cars, unsuited to American roads, most of which are highways. I own a 2004 Yaris, and it's a nightmare to drive on the highway. If I were American, I'd prefer a larger car just not to suffer during daily commute.
MSDOS401@reddit
This is why I haven't gotten rid of my '96 4Runner. 317 on the clock and it still keeps going. Though I do need to change out the CV axles and fix an oil leak.
Recoil42@reddit
Test.
avoidhugeships@reddit
Regualtions are killing affordable cars. The push for EVs is costing manufacturers a fortune.
Foolgazi@reddit
Which regulations specifically are responsible for making cars less affordable than say 6-7 years ago?
As for an “EV push,” that may have been true up to 2024, but not after.
avoidhugeships@reddit
All the big manufacturers have to pay Tesla clean energy credits. Making backup camera, auto stop, emergency braking, emissions equipment. etc. all standard. There is way too much to go into on a reddit post but that's a start. I am not saying all those things are bad but they add cost.
Foolgazi@reddit
All true, but inflation alone is responsible for 25% of increased price of vehicles since 2019, which seems to be the more meaningful factor.
Raveen396@reddit
Sure, let’s start by removing regulations on imports and let everyone buy $10k Chinese EVs
GoddamnIronTiger@reddit
Yeah having clean air to breathe is so damn inconvenient and really hurts those poor little mom and pop car manufacturers /s
half_regard@reddit
you're in the wrong sub bro, r/conservative is ---> that way
tararira1@reddit
I’ll get downvoted to hell, but the truth is that cars were never supposed to be affordable.
Any_Sale2030@reddit
There are plenty of affordable cars. People just want more than they can afford.
ohfml@reddit
“Never”? Uh. The Model T was the definitive affordable hard asset. The automobile’s success was defined by its eventual affordability. Also, GM initially took market share (and became successful) by creating the GM Acceptance Corporation (GMAC), a finance corporation that shared credit risk for car loans between GM and dealers, making car loans easier to get, and making cars more affordable. It was the harbinger of the loan/credit industry for middle america.
https://www.library.hbs.edu/hc/credit/credit4d.html
I disagree with your thesis thoroughly.
tararira1@reddit
The Model T was released a hundred years ago in a completely different world. Auto loans are at all times high, infrastructure to support cars is crumbling and very expensive to maintain, and cities can't accommodate more cars.
youreloser@reddit
With the amount of R&D, materials, and manufacturing that goes into a car, it's a wonder we were ever able to afford them at all!
tararira1@reddit
And infrastructure. It’s completely unsustainable unless big profits are made
thetimechaser@reddit
I don't think affordability is really on the minds of the makers, just what is profitable. As it stands today it's more profitable to focus up-market where people are actually spending.
When you adjust for inflation for all the 90's legends we love new prices actually seem to be about in line with previous generations model for model (or comparable segment).
What didn't keep up is wages.
Also the fact that our protectionist policies in the US incentivize the manufacture of bigger and bigger vehicles while preventing makes from bringing in the smaller affordable vehicles commonly available around the world.
long_fish3000@reddit
car companies realized that if they kill off cheaper models, people will just buy the more expensive models. because america a country where you must buy a car. it's a necessity here.
Any_Sale2030@reddit
In my opinion Detroit car makers will be gone by 2050. They consistently lost about 1% market share per year since 1970. They’re too inbred to have noticed.
europeanperson@reddit
They just follow the sales. Even now, Nissan sells way more Sentras than Versas. There’s just not a big enough market in US for those ultra-budget options. People would just rather pay more and get into a Sentra/corolla/civic than get a new Versa or Mirage.
doobi1908@reddit
It’s a generational thing. Gen Xer’s and Millennials love their Trucks and SUV that they can’t afford.
Tony_Lacorona@reddit
?? Dude I sell insurance for a living and 80% of the boomers drive massive SUVs and trucks. The super old folks tend to likely have an old vehicle sitting around since they rarely drive
doobi1908@reddit
The boomers around me drive Cadillac CTS’s and Toyota Avalons.
Any_Sale2030@reddit
Cheap good cars are still available. My niece just bought a new Civic Sport 4 door for about $32k. Nicely equipped.
Problem is too many people will only drive expensive massive pickups or SUVs. Then they complain about car payments and the cost of gas.
bassistface199x99LvL@reddit
I have 69k miles on my CX-5 and 10k left on it to payoff. Nowhere can I find a car with that mileage for the price. I cannot wait til the day it is paid off.
Averageinternetdoge@reddit
What happened? Car makers got greedy is what happened.
They just thought that it's a good idea that they start selling only luxury suv's and in 20 years poor people will buy those as used. While conveniently forgetting that servicing a 100 grand car is not something poor people can afford.
HoldingThunder@reddit
The price of steel and aluminium have doubled since 2020.
angrytortilla@reddit
The affordable EVERYTHING is dead. What happened? Corporate greed and the politicians that support them.
MasterofPeridots@reddit
Everyone says they want an affordable car but what they really mean is an affordable BMW. You want a car at shitbox price point without it actually being a shitbox. You trashed on the likes of the Geo Metro and the Yugo and are now mad that manafacturers decided they don't want to do bare bones cars anymore and instead want to shove iPads into every car. You say you want a simple car, but then you trash simple cars for being too simple. Backup cameras are federally mandated now. What the hell is it that you people want?
TheArchist@reddit
cars have gotten cheaper over time when you compare purchasing power in the past, but what hasn't gotten cheaper is living. cost of living has spiralled far out of control which is the real problem
GaviFromThePod@reddit
Why would I buy a new car for $30k that has fewer features when I could buy a used car for $30k that is more comfortable, more powerful, and better in every way, especially when I don't have to worry about reliability anymore?
PurpleHairedLoon@reddit
The irony of the nyt asking this question is breathtaking.
Badj83@reddit
It’s a follow up to their article about that poor couple struggling in a 2 bedroom apartment with a combined salary of only $500,000
boning_my_granny@reddit
Why is that? Please elaborate.
morelsupporter@reddit
longer term financing is what happened
long_fish3000@reddit
alternate article, everything is more expensive, what happened? : wages did not rise at the same rates and the gap of poor and rich has become bigger.
strzalaking@reddit
Good. I know it's a hard truth to swallow, but cars or houses are things that never should become cheap and widely available. Designing a whole country around individual houses and individual transport was a mistake that the US made. As dumb as it sounds, the planet just cannot maintain everyone having 2-3 cars and a large house with a yard. Americans got lucky, but what if billions of Indians decide to follow? What about Africa? There's just not enough resources for everyone to live like the Americans did in the past 50 years.
triplevanos@reddit
I have a theory that the incredible reliability of used cars now (compared to even 20 years ago) has basically shifted the entire market up slightly.
A 2015 Corolla is an excellent car and only around $10k. If you want a car that will deliver a solid 100k trouble free miles, you previously should buy new. Today, it mostly makes sense to buy used