Petition: MINIMUM information when discussing jobs
Posted by flyhighdivelow@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 90 comments
It would be EXTREMELY helpful for all involved (poster and commenters) if they included a few things right away when discussing employment.
Multi time
Turbine time
Checkride failures
PIC/SIC
AGE
Last one in bold because I do not think it is talked about enough. If you seriously think 135 and 121 operations don't consider maturity and life experience in their hiring decisions then I have news for you.
If you mandated employment discussions to include these things, it would save a lot of time, effort and trouble. Just a thought
Relevant-Day-8160@reddit
It's literally illegal to discriminate hiring based on age lol. Look at any legacy new hire class. The ages will range from 24-63.
YKRed@reddit
63 lol
Relevant-Day-8160@reddit
Yeah. There was a guy in mine who retired before I was off probation...
SSMDive@reddit
There was an unspoken rule about hiring managers at my last company… You don’t hire anyone as a manager till they are at least 25.
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
Nah everyone here thinks age doesn't matter ever apparently
Full_Wind_1966@reddit
Well age legally cannot matter for hiring and any company who admits it opens themselves up to lawsuits
Being_Vegetable@reddit
In the US age discrimination is only illegal when it's discrimination for being too old not too young
Dinosaur_Wrangler@reddit
No idea why you're getting downvoted. It's literally written into federal law and protects people 40 or older. Further, because airlines are just hiring commodity labor widgets, it's far easier to prove a pattern of discrimination. It's why you see 63 and 64 year olds in legacy new hire classes.
https://www.eeoc.gov/statutes/age-discrimination-employment-act-1967
SSMDive@reddit
Well it can’t be cited as a reason, but it can still be a factor. ‘He didn’t interview well’
yourlocalFSDO@reddit
Are you the guy I was flying with last week who couldn’t help but bitch about all the “kids” he has to fly with now while he was busting SOP every leg?
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
No sir. Just a humble 900 hour pilot
PatientFlight2274@reddit
Lol you're already grumpy at 900 hours. Just imagine how much more grumpy you can be
jet-setting@reddit
There is absolutely nothing humble about how you present yourself and your (in)experience in this industry.
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
I am literally speaking from first hand experience across multiple different 135/91 operations. Yet everyone here downvoting coincidentally is commenting from a 121 position or beyond. Quite literally, the definition of arrogance to assume that someone currently in the trenches knows less than others just because I talk from a place of knowledge.
And word of advice? Stop being humble. Humble literally means "Have a low self estimate of one's own worth or importance." Call me crazy but id rather a pilot know his capabilities rather than doubt himself. Modesty however, is something most pilots need to work on.
You and others doubt what I say and yet funny enough you aren't in it. You aren't shaking hands with 91 and 135 operators, working for them and networking in the parts of the world I do.
jet-setting@reddit
So then, why did you call yourself humble?
That was a whole lot of space to say nothing worthwhile.
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
Clearly forgot the /sarcasm
yourlocalFSDO@reddit
Well you sound like the exact kind of guy you’re bitching about. Better make sure that attitude doesn’t come across in your interviews
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
From a 121 operation a lot of the comments here make sense. Outside of that, operations that time build are owned and operated by boomers. Those boomers DO consider age and maturity. That is my point. I'm just a messenger. It was the mistake of you and others to assume I meant airlines specifically.
yourlocalFSDO@reddit
Well I’m not at a 121 operation or speaking from that perspective so…
mapu_c@reddit
You sound old and grumpy. I wouldn’t want to sit in the cockpit with you for four days.
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
0% shot this OP is an airline pilot to begin with
prex10@reddit
Within the 8 months they were still in flight school according to their post history
KITTYONFYRE@reddit
short sighted*
CavalierRigg@reddit
This is why everyone I talk to for interview prep who brings up “Oh, I read on Reddit…” I straight up tell them their information isn’t reliable. Do NOT get me wrong, I love this community, but there are many pilot-incels that think that just because they have all their hours, they are owed a job but they don’t realize that they literally have zero non-time related qualifications to be an airline pilot.
Anecdotally, someone I know at my job in in their early 20s and has almost approximately 2000 hours. They can’t find a job at all. They claim radio silence, TBNTs, and got a full interview with an Eastern-U.S. based regional that only flies CRJs and he got another TBNT. This person confronted me when I informed my boss that I got a CJO two weeks ago at 977 hours TT and they called bullshit until I showed them the email. This person has 1-2 checkride failures, no degree, self-admittedly no community service, no ambitions to do/be anything but an airline pilot.. they actively dissuade people to not join cadet programs because, quote, “Reddit said they aren’t worth it, and doing my own research they don’t help you get a job, it’s just like a fan club for that airline.” I wish I was making that up, but I know that this person gets almost ALL of their information from on here and then they spread it around.
That being said, I don’t know if ‘age’ is a good temperature gauge on ‘maturity’ or the level of decency as a person.
fgflyer@reddit
I’m 24, building time flying a Cessna 340, never went to college, and have 1 checkride failure… but I only have 600ish hours and I’m not even worrying about the future because I have no idea what things are going to be like when I get to ATP mins.
But if your description is anything to go by, I’m 100% screwed.
CavalierRigg@reddit
Hey, hold on u/fgflyer , it’s not too late at all brother. You just need to start now working on things that make you a better candidate when it’s time for you to apply. The issue with a lot of people on here is that they literally just go by numbers because it’s the most basic metric, but they don’t stop to consider what ELSE on paper makes/breaks their résumé. Here is what I recommend for you…
-Start working on that college degree. Unpopular as hell, but a degree is often the difference between a ‘yea’ or a ‘no’ in a drought hiring climate. Many, MANY community colleges are free or have very minimal tuitions. Start getting credit hours for a degree, ANY degree, at a state university that will accept those credit hours. If you need help with this, counselors at CCs can help you find those degree programs.
-Continuous Pilot education. FAA WINGS is incredibly easy to do, and it helps you if you get a phone number. There are tasks, almost like merit badges, that are easy to do both from a PowerPoint and in a plane… get your Master wings!
-Continuous Pilot Education pt 2. Get your CFI, CFII, MEI… it’s absolutely not the only Pilot job out there, but it shows you know how to study and learn. Many cadet programs have a requirement now that you earn a CFI cert.
-Continuous Pilot Education pt 3. Start studying advanced systems/regs now. Study how jet engines work, learn Part 121… my recruiter called me when I got my CJO and she read off some of my notes from my interviewer: “recited regs correctly by heart, knew Part 121 well- wow!” She also said that he made notes on my CRM scenario and that it went really well, and all of that actually came from chair flying some scenarios my buddies sent me.
-Apply/volunteer with ANYWHERE. Civil Air Patrol is what I chose to do, doesn’t need to be as a pilot, I am a Mission Scanner and work with some of the kids. CAP is also cool for me because they gave me free training to get a safety certificate that I used to get into the Safety Management System with my flight school that built my résumé and helped me develop a passion for studying accidents and analyzing them.
-Network now.. this sounds dumb or simple but invite people you see going to the airlines/where you want to go for lunch. Make them your friends, go out to dinner with them. Invite pilots over and play cards, OR work to make a study group to study for the airlines stuff.. it was friends that I made during my flight training that got in to the airlines and gave me gouges they made for me that helped… you can do this too, amigo.
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
Agreed. And Age is just meant as a rough indicator. It was never meant to be literal. Just one small distinguishing factor but people blew it out of proportion because people on reddit WANT it to be nothing but stats and certifications
CavalierRigg@reddit
Roger. Yeah, I absolutely see what you mean but I stand by what we are both saying at this point in that I think… you are looking for a data point that many people would be resistant to tack on because the people who have the issue of frankly being too young or naïve to understand that their lack of maturity or professional development is holding them back don’t see their age as the ‘deciding factor’, yaknow what I mean?
Also, another anecdote, my Chief has a buddy who is one of the most senior SWA captains at the company to come to talk to our school about D225 and he straight up called out a clique of students who giggled at something while he was talking, “Just so ya’ll know, this whole trend where new aviators are just high school-college frat boys who think they are hot shit isn’t popular with us when we hire men and women to replace us.” It got quiet REAL quick…
mattrichor@reddit
No me trying to figure out that acronym "AGE" was 🙃
EdBasqueMaster@reddit
I look like I am 14 at most. Age, or perceived age?, has not been a factor in a single one of the jobs I have ever interviewed for. I just don’t really know what you’re looking for there.
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
It's almost like employers sometimes consider things other than a list of stats when making hiring decisions
ducks
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
My friend manages a flight school. They held a Taco night and had it catered for all their employees. About 15 instructors I met and talked to and I'll tell you right now, I would not want a SINGLE one of them touching an airline. NO ONE over 30, with not a hint of awareness or intelligence.
One of them, a "kid" about 24 years old was complaining to me that at 1600 hours and his ATP done, he was getting ghosted by 121 operations. Age aside, he was simply NOT PERSONABLE and any interviewer could tell right away this is not someone who should be in charge of anything
Bot_Marvin@reddit
Why would you need to be over 30 to touch an airline?
I’m at a regional and I would say the majority of FOs I fly with are below 30. Flown with plenty who are 21-22. They are perfectly capable of the job,
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
I never said that and comments like this are the problem with this sub.
I simply said it can be a factor and that is true. Why this turner into a huge issue is beyond me.
And to be honest, again, yes it is almost irrelevant at 121 but 91 and 135 operations it is a thing. Not the age necessarily, just expereince and maturity
Bot_Marvin@reddit
It turned into an issue because its so off base that it's illogical. If anything, regionals *prefer* the younger candidates. Rumor is that piloting being your second career is an automatic review board for Republic.
b_sussy@reddit
Not just rumor, that’s what they told us when I interviewed at Republic. Coming from 135, military, or even coming from a first, non-aviation career was auto review board.
Physical-Program-509@reddit
Coming to republic as a prior military aviator would trigger a review board but a person who’s barely old enough to consume alcohol who shelled out six figures of money at a large part 141 dosent?
b_sussy@reddit
Not that I agree with it but that’s what they told us 🤷♂️ I’m a 61 instructor that went to a 141 and they decided to send me to the board anyway but I still got the job
jet-setting@reddit
The fuck are you on about?
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
Coincidentally I also ran a flight school for a while on the side of being an airline pilot. Would it surprise you if I mentioned that age isn't really that big of a factor, and I've had 23-year-olds that I'd trust up front far more than 40-year-old career changers?
We can go back and forth with generalizations all you want.
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
You LITERALLY just said "isn't really that big of a factor" which PROVES IT IS A FACTOR. FFS my man give me a break. I'm not saying it is a big deal, BUT IT IS A FACTOR
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
I now understand the point of this post even less.
prex10@reddit
This guy has to be trolling at this point.
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
I kinda like going back and forth with the trolls. Let them bury themselves in negative karma and then they're the automod's problem, as one of the mods here once explained it to me.
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
You guys are quite daft. Stop thinking literal age and more experience and maturity as I made clear MANY times.
Like literally ask yourself. Would you interview better TODAY then you did a decade ago if you had the same hours now as you did then?
prex10@reddit
I interviewed a decade ago and got a job. So....
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
That wasn't my question was it? Great you got the job. Happy it worked out then. But in a competitive market today you need every advantage you can get. And if you don't think you would interview even better TODAY than you did then, again I don't know what else to say to you
prex10@reddit
You asked if you would interview as good as I did recently 10 years ago. I said yes
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
You literally did not say you would interview the same. You simply said back then you got the job. I'm going to guess you are single lol
prex10@reddit
I said I would interview as good.
Ahhh here comes the insults. Happy married but nice try.
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
Do point out in any of your comments where you said specifically that you would interview today as well as you did 10 years ago? I'll wait
prex10@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/s/n3CNS7UnGT
Yes literally here
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
I'm flabbergasted this is a problem for you to understand so I'll make it clear.
I am simply saying age (specifically maturity and life experience) is a contributing factor (NOT A MAJOR ONE) to getting hired at jobs.
You admitted it was indeed a factor, and yet you can't understand?
iPullCAPS@reddit
I’ve flown as pic of two different turbine aircraft for two different 135 certificate holders and I’m 23. Neither of which I knew anyone in management at. Age doesn’t matter outside of “can you hold an unrestricted atp”
Full_Wind_1966@reddit
It is illegal to hire based on age or to even consider age in hiring. No company would ever admit to it because that would open them up to lawsuits.
prex10@reddit
Age? My legacy has people born in 2003 on the books lol.
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
Two resumes. One guy, 22 years old with 1500 hours and no other jobs beyond CFI, or a 35 yr old with the same hours but was successful in an entirely different profession. If you think the latter isn't viewed more favorably then I don't know what else to tell you.
It's less about age, and more about experience (which comes with age). Of course we know it's discrimination technically to consider age, but from the perspective of experience it goes a long way
prex10@reddit
Well, who interviewed better? If they both "interviewed good" then I would hire them both. If the 22 year old seemed like a better fit based on their personally I would take them in a heartbeat.
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
The whole point is that decade of experience means that more often than not, the older individual with over a DECADE of life experience, including professional and emotional experience, will PROBABLY interview better. Not always of course, which is why age is ONE factor.
To act like it doesn't matter at all is insane
prex10@reddit
Yet all the airlines that are full of 20 somethings says otherwise.
Funny enough I've spoken to numerous recruiters and interviewers. I was told a similar story many times. The old guys are the ones who come in with the sense of entitlement. Not the younger ones
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
We all know exceptions. Hell I am one myself. I am simply saying it is a factor which it undeniably is ESPECIALLY beyond 121 ops. You think my post was meant specifically for the airlines?
prex10@reddit
Dude, the 25 year old at a regional isn't an exception, it's practically the rule. Go look at new hire classes. Like 90% of the classes are 25 year olds.
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
Look this discussion took a turn that it was not intended to. And I didn't realize how hyper focuses pilots can be but wow...
I simply said it is a contributing factor. Yes of course regionals need pilots and the MEDIAN age of applicants is probably around that age. But in a competitive environment, having a few more years and experience under your belt can make all the difference. That's all. It is not about literal age, and more about maturity
prex10@reddit
It is? You're a 900 hour pilot. How do you know? Who have you interviewed with? How do you know what they're looking for?
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
Maybe because the jobs I'm currently working and the owners I have talked to SPECICALLY COMPLAIN about the 20 yr old applicants. Most people are HYPER focused on the airlines. Did I specifically mention airlines EVER?
In my limited experience I know MULTIPLE operators running everything from 182s, to multi engine turbines that WILL NOT hire anyone straight from college with a CFI.
You made the mistake of applying my post to 121 ops. That is on you and does not represent the MAJORITY of paid flying gigs.
Hell go apply to ANY job in Alaska as a 21 yr old from the continental USA with only CFI on your resume. Let's see how far you get...
mirassou3416@reddit
My instructor at Jack Brown's was 21 when he signed me off and flies PC12's and Beavers carrying pax in Alaska in summers and returns to FL in winters to instruct
prex10@reddit
Ah your experience is the rantings of a boomer. Got it lol
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
Correct. Those boomers happen to own and operate a LOT of the time-building jobs in the USA across multiple industries.
prex10@reddit
Let me guess, "kids these days don't wanna work" too? Lol
drain-angel@reddit
Man who is having a temper tantrum writing incoherent paragraphs is talking about maturity
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Low time inexperienced pilot rants about hiring practices while knowing nothing about the industry: news at 11.
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
Read all the posts here. It is people with their ATP, applying my post ONLY to 121 ops. You are yet another to fall victim to that trap.
You think all those jobs in Alaska will take a young 20's CFI? You think small 135 rural op cargo feeders in the continental USA in the mid west don't care about maturity or age or even where their applicants come from?
You made the mistake of talking from a point of experience on your end (121) with no experience currently in the market that I am actually in.
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
It sounds like you need a history lesson regarding the hiring pace and practices of the last 30 years. You really have no idea what you're talking about, kid.
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
Yes I know nothing about what I am currently surrounded by compared to someone who isn't in the thick of it currently...
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
My guy has 900 hours and thinks he's "in the thick of it" lol
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
Are you really trying to imply that someone in the 121 world knows better than someone currently in the 91/135 ops about getting hired today? Not yesterday or tomorrow, but right now?
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Where did I say I was 121? And yes, I do know more about past and present 91/135 ops than you do. That's a given. You don't know anything about anything, because you're not even eligible to be hired.
Rory-2-1@reddit
You were asking questions for your multi ride 2/3 of a year ago and are talking down on people who have seen the ups and downs from prior to your birth… As another young instructor in the business I courteously ask you to pipe down and listen more than you speak, in general terms
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
The absolute state of this sub in 2026
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
I feel a little bad for these poor kids. They ate up the glossy brochure and fell victim to predatory lending practices.
live_drifter@reddit
Since it’s illegal for companies to consider age in hiring, you’re really just off on this.
Your lunatic use of caps when you type really say everything we need to know about you David.
Ok_Witness179@reddit
We need a resume too. I saw and heard about some crazy stuff that came through when I was an instructor..
AsleepExplanation160@reddit
Age doesn't matter. Relevant experience does. An engineer doing a career change is more competitive than a twenty something. But that doesn't hold true for someone from say the corporate world.
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
EXACTLY. That's all I'm saying. It is a factor. Sometimes negligible and it sometimes can make all the difference between you and someone else
AsleepExplanation160@reddit
I think age is a poor way to put it. Because age by itself is almost entirely worthless. Technical work experience would be better
flyhighdivelow@reddit (OP)
I thought I did a fair job of clarifying I did not mean literal age but apparently not
jet-setting@reddit
All you have said is age. If you mean something else, maybe use those exceptional personal skills of yours and actually use your words to explain what you mean?
chocolate_asshole@reddit
agreed, context matters a ton. every hiring thread is twenty questions otherwise. flying jobs are weird enough already and finding work sucks now
ThatOnePilotDude@reddit
Age? I know many of my friends who get their type and R-ATP on their 21st birthday.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
It would be EXTREMELY helpful for all involved (poster and commenters) if they included a few things right away when discussing employment.
Multi time
Turbine time
Checkride failures
PIC/SIC
AGE
Last one in bold because I do not think it is talked about enough. If you seriously think 135 and 121 operations don't consider maturity and life experience in their hiring decisions then I have news for you.
If you mandated employment discussions to include these things, it would save a lot of time, effort and trouble. Just a thought
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