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the_capibarin@reddit

The entirety of Reddit has contributed less to society than this beardy 150 years ago, have some respect

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EdliA@reddit

Nah, this guy contributed in negatives which is much worse than 0 contribution.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

You should try reading about Marx's work and life instead of informing yourself through fake info 'memes' and influencers.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

That's... what I am saying. Try to refute anything Marx's said, I will wait comfortably sitting.

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-Desolada-@reddit

The inevitable 'march of communism' according to dialectical materialism isn't happening and very likely never will.

The idea that we will have some glorious revolution due to workers being in bad conditions that will, axiomatically, turn into socialism and then communism, still hasn't happened and the current trajectory doesn't make it seem likely either. Worker conditions have improved SUBSTANTIALLY since Marx's time, and if you think that people are going to inevitably overwhelm the capitalist system now, when they're working 9-5 office jobs with air conditioning and modern amenities, you're delusional.

Your 'it's never actually been tried thing' is also hilarious because you refuse to accept the obvious fact that all attempts for the materialistic pathway to go capitalism -- > socialism -- > communism have been subverted by dictators, because the idea that a benevolent state will arise to create socialism, then dissolve itself for a hierarchy-less post-scarcity society, is laughable.

The labor theory of value is also hilariously bad for multiple reasons. First, that most labor cannot be done without resources/infrastructure being provided in the first place, so claiming that 'excess profit' that the worker has earned through their labor is unfairly siphoned away, is just nonsensical. A nurse can't work without a hospital, equipment, other medical staff, and thus unless they provide those things themselves, it is reasonable for a cut of their labor to be taken and given to those that provide those resources.

The labor theory of value also fails for various other reasons on its own, and is simply an inferior paradigm compared to supply and demand.

Not even actual educated leftists still cling to Marx. They understand his historical significance and the underlining concepts of his theories, but also are aware how incomplete and inappropriate they are when applied to contemporary circumstances.

Anyone who unironically thinks Marx is irrefutable is your typical Reddit leftist who thinks they're enlightened after reading the wikipedia summary of Das Kapital.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

the march of communism via dialectical materialism, still hasn't happened and very, very likely never will.

Yup, the system has too much of a hold on us. It needs to collapse, which will do. And then probably even more authoritarian and classist people will get the throne.

Worker conditions have improved

Tell that to the fucking slave labour in 3rd world countries, or to the trafficked people, etc

His predictions have almost all failed

This is just false, he has practically nailed our current position.

Eventually the cycle will bounce back to prosperity

You think this is because of COVID? You are very naive, and it's not going to get better, it's going to explode because of climate change.

have been subverted by dictators,

If dictators subverted it, they were never communists in the first place.

Because these things are provided to them through no effort or cost of their own

The countries with the best quality of life in the world have public and health systems, and they work because it's a cyclical , cooperative action. That's what MArx advocated to, cooperation instead of competition.

That way, the workers now own the means of production after killing off the rightful owners. How nice.

Buddy, they are killing us ALL with climate change, wars, genocides, etc. You just don't care or realize.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Maybe I will read all that some day buddy, you are welcome for the mental exercise hahahah

Buddy look around. We have genocides, outsourced cheap labour, globalist agenda, slave labour, human trafficking, wars, poverty and hunger...

You guys don't grasp yet that the world is collapsing due climate change.

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-Desolada-@reddit

Asks for a refutation of Marx.

Gets it.

"I'm not reading all of that hurr durr we have genocides going on btw"

?

Pathetic.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

I've been refuting countless people in this post, I am not interested in starting another conversation.

I don't care what you have to say buddy, nobody does.

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philmarcracken@reddit

It was never deterministic prophecy, like a religious rapture. Marx+engels rarely used 'inevitable' in a vacuum; they spoke of historical tendency

capitalism contains internal contradictions, like the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, that create instability. While the great revolution hasn't happened in the west, Marxists would argue that the tendencies (wealth concentration, boom/bust cycles, imperialist expansion) are still around. To say the theory failed because it hasnt happened yet is a leap. The theory is a tool for analysis, not a calendar.

Workers are too comfortable in 9-5 jobs with AC to revolt

This misses the Marxist distinction between standard of living and class position. Marx argued that exploitation is not about how much a worker earns, its about the relationship between the worker and the MoP. A software engineer in an AC office who doesnt own the servers, the code, or the company is, in Marxian terms, still a member of the proletariat. They sell their labor power to survive. Those 'improved conditions' are often just better management of exploitation(social democracy), which delays rather than resolves the underlying contradiction of capital accumulation.

The idea of a benevolent state dissolving itself is laughable and a failure of theory

This part is true; the 'dictatorship of the proletariat' is vauge af, has no plan and you've spotted a gap between theory and practice. You've also treated the practice as the definition of the theory...

Labor theory of value(LTV) vs. Marginalism

You're positing that LTV and supply/demand are mutually exclusive, no idea why. Marxists use LTV to explain the origin of value (why things have value in the first place), while acknowledging that supply and demand determine the price (the market fluctuation around that value). LTV is a tool to explain surplus value, the gap between what a worker is paid per hour, and their worth per hour; marginalism doesn't do this.

nurse needs a hospital and supplies

Of course, no doubt about it. The hospital owner(private), is still exploiting that nurses labor value based on the gap between what they're paid per hour and worth per hour.

What is on point: old AF theories that struggle to account for the complexity of modern service economies(no shit)

What whiffed:

treating Marxist tendencies as religious prophecies
confusing standard of living with class relations
the technical definition of exploitation (conflating it with 'unfairness' rather than 'surplus extraction')
combining price(determined by supply/demand) with value (the subject of LTV)

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-Desolada-@reddit

How convenient that, without a specific end date, that it is always "inevitably going to happen in the future". The exact same as religious prophecy that gives no specific date for Rapture. That is why I made the comparison, because the adherents always have the fall-back of 'it just hasn't happened yet, but it will.'

The point is that, supposedly, the internal contradictions of capitalism lead to its downfall. The problem is that capitalism has proven adaptable enough to address its internal contradictions without collapsing on itself. Since the conditions are now better for workers then they were at the time of Marx's theorizing, then it stands that the inevitability of the march of dialectical materialism is not so inevitable, as capitalism has found a workaround for this structural issue.

Marginalism provides a better answer to the origin of labor value, which is why I mentioned it in tandem with supply and demand. LTV argues some nebulous concept of 'socially necessary labor time' being the source of value, but that is not a modern concept followed in economics.

Value is determined through supply and demand (scarcity) as well as utility. Hence, almost nothing in modern economics is based on the difficulty of production/extraction, but on how much someone is willing to pay for it. Capitalism seeks an equilibrium or better where something is profitable when people pay more for it than it cost to produce.

The concept of 'exploiting value' being inherently bad is also taken for granted by leftists. I use the nurse example because I am a nurse. I accept that I am paid what I deem a more-than-fair wage for using the resources given to me to perform my labor. You may claim this is them 'exploiting me', and I happily continue to cash in my paychecks.

The distinction between what I'm worth versus what I'm paid is, again, the difference between the fact I don't have to find my own patients, bring my own supplies, etc. It would make absolutely zero fucking sense for me to paid the entirety of the value I generate for the hospital, because my value is not produced by me in isolation.

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Real_Yhwach@reddit

Every single time his ideology was practiced it has lead to death and extermination

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AlcoreRain@reddit

False, because his ideology has never been tried. His ideas influenced worker movements fighting for workers rights around the world though.

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Real_Yhwach@reddit

NOOOOOOOOO his ideology has never been tried because it didn’t go EXACTLY right even though it’s an oxymoronic idea that requires a totalitarian state that will never let go of power

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AlcoreRain@reddit

A dictatorship, by definition, cannot be communism. And a totalitarian state is also against the bases of it, you guys don't really know what Marx said.

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Real_Yhwach@reddit

If that’s what happens every time then it kind of is

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Mate, politicians lie. You know that.

If a corrupt dictator says he is a communist but then does the opposite, is he really a communist? Hitler was not a socialist despite what he said.

Labels are just labels, we cannot trust what politicans say, we have to look at what they do.

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chanbr@reddit

I'll accept that communism can work in small societies where people understand and accept the concept to the point of giving up stuff to help it succeed. I just don't think it can ever be scaled up to the national level because at that point it runs into all of the people who don't really care about the ideology on a fundamental level, they just want to see how it benefits them. Capitalism works because it doesn't rely on people altruistically and every single time giving up something that could benefit them for the greater good. It uses the universal human vice of greed to moderate people. Like Jesus said about the corrupt judge in one of his parables, the judge won't care about administering justice to a wronged widow, but he will eventually give up and do what she wants if she continues bitching at him under his window. Altman, as another example, just recently got his home firebombed. He might be a snake but if begging at his better nature didn't help, maybe threatening him might, because everyone--rich or poor--fears for their life.

The commenter has a point in that every single communist country that took over from further right despots has themselves become authoritarian and in some ways even more despotic. It has never transitioned the other way, and if you tell me that this is because capitalist countries are putting pressure on it, all countries get pressured by outside nations that want to influence it. Even America was no stranger to that, the Revolution was partially funded by the French who wanted to fuck Britain over. Native American tribes joined both sides to try and accomplish their own goals. No nation is an island nor should we expect it to be one, and if that communist country collapses into despotic extremism because of that international pressure which other nations are able to withstand without descent into long-term autocracy or anarchy, doesn't that say something?

Also there's already tons of tankies who identify as hard left, are anti-imperial, have more influence than you do, and long for the return of the Soviet Union and other communist powers. They hunger for the day they can eliminate the "kulaks" and see nothing wrong with the various massacres as long as they targeted the right people. So why should you be listened to over them?

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AlcoreRain@reddit

"Capitalism works"

Tell that to the children having their legs blown off in Gaza. Or to the homeless people. Or drug addicts, or, etc etc

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chanbr@reddit

Do you think that doesn't happen in a communist society or that it's purely related to (stereotypically greedy) capitalism? Because most societies are a mixed economy and not purely capitalist for the record. Private and state resources are available.

You also still haven't given me any examples of nation-level communist countries that haven't collapsed into authoritarian dictatorships to demonstrate that it can happen, or explained why I should listen to you over someone like Hasan Piker wrt communist societies as one of the dominant and influential left wing voices right now.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

You also still haven't given me any examples of nation-level communist

They were never communists, nor the dictators who tried them.

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chanbr@reddit

Ok, so how do we know your idea of communism will work out if it's never been done "properly" before? Lots of ideas sound really cool until they actually hit the pavement. Like I said, I can acknowledge that small communist societies with participants who are bought in and willing to work to support it can function, although many of them still end up falling apart, if you look at the number of communes we have today vs their peak in the 70's and 80's. We even had socially right wing but economically left wing versions of that with local, isolated villages iirc. But when we talk about nations we talk about millions of people from all walks of life and multiple ideologies, viewpoints, beliefs.

In a commune, for example, it's acceptable to exclude people who refuse to participate, but you can't exile people at the national level, because then they become stateless. You're severely restricted when it comes to what you can do and not do.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

I am not a communist, I don't really think it will work as long as social media, religion and money are prevalent. People are simply not educated enough to be it.

We are destroying the world via capitalism, and this post, this factually wrong "meme", is how children inform themselves about politics nowadays.

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chanbr@reddit

social media Humans are by nature social creatures. We all culturally spontaneously developed an understanding of concepts like gossip, rumormongering, mobbing, hierarchies, etc because we evolved to be social and form communities to work together and those concepts helped keep the community stable while warning against bad actors. Social media made this a stronger force but inherently it was always there.

Religion Another thing that arises spontaneously and continuously across all cultures. Often used to help encourage people to think beyond themselves and their needs in the moment, as well as linking people up and giving them a connection outside of their small community, which is coincidentally why a lot of European conquerors back in the day spread Christiandom while uniting the various tribes. I distinctly remember the French revolution denouncing and killing multiple priests and nuns while trying to "dechristianize" itself but ending up spontaneously developing their own psuedo religion during the Reign of Terror anyway.

Money We're all self interested in something, which is the point I was making earlier. Money lets us trade goods and services without needing a complex system of bartering various goods to different people to ultimately get what we need. I for example don't have the ability to grow food but I do have the ability to code. The local farmer doesn't really need code but he would like to buy the latest Star Wars Rey doll for his little kid. Instead of us trying to figure out what I can give him so he gets his Rey doll and I get my food, we get each other something that can be universally traded with other people who do have what we want. Money isn't "going away" until we become able to create stuff on our own, or resource scarcity stops being a thing.

There is nothing significantly different mentally from us of today compared to the people in the past, we've been complaining about the same problems for millenia. (Ironically, people were complaining about "late stage capitalism" as far back as the 1800's to give you an idea of how much history runs in circles) Also, stupid, misinformed people will always exist, if you're saying the only reason communism won't work is because of dumb people exist, that's another point against Marxist communism. It has to be able to work around dumb people. And again, a part of capitalism is it's ability to force dumb, evil people to cooperate, even if only to save their own skins. In Maryland, for instance, the greed aspect is the bag fee, which is making more people use those reusable totes. Nobody really wants to pay 5c per plastic bag (greed), but it's also such a subtle way to nudge more environmental policies into place through a capitalist lense.

Capitalism also co opts other economic ideologies very well, for example the (capitalist with a strong social net!) Nordic countries. There's an argument a bit further down thread discussing how well mixed economies have worked I recommend you peek at if you have the time.

I'm not completely against communism, I agree it's not good to just let corporations run roughshod in pursuit of pure profit. Workers should be listened to. But historically, as you can't give me an example, purely communist societies have utterly failed and become authoritarian. Imo the best thing to do is have strong government regulations to prevent abuse, have a strong social support, and make sure workers rights are respected in the push-pull of business vs employees imo. Unions are a great mix of capitalism and socialism for instance.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Social Media Is an abusive tool, engineered for propaganda and addiction, directly impacting our brain development. Property of capitalistic fortunes. Now add AI, and Google, etc

Religion Is also something that dwindles with the advance of science and human rights. I am not particularly against it, just it's commercialisation and colonization. Again, they are too the property of capitalistic fortunes.

Money Again, another corrupted tool at the service of corrupted entities.

Dumb is not the same as uneducated. Even entitled toddlers can learn how to live in society, and there are social solutions if they are not able because of special limitations. I don't consider someone with lower brain functions "dumb". That's just who they are. Egotistical, ignorant, entitled people, THOSE are dumb, because they are choosing to be.

Imo the best thing to do is have strong government regulations to prevent abuse, have a strong social support, and make sure workers rights are respected in the push-pull of business vs employees imo.

I kind of agree, I just think that we are subestimating the impact climate change will have very soon. All of these are symptoms of the true cause; dumb humans stuck in their ego driven survival instinct. Corruption arouses from it.

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chanbr@reddit

> Is an abusive tool, engineered for propaganda and addiction, directly impacting our brain development. Property of capitalistic fortunes. Now add AI, and Google, etc

People don't create this stuff expecting or hoping for it to turn 'evil', I'd argue that it's sadly a part of human nature, especially as more and more people use it with their own agendas. I think it's reductive to just call it a bad tool/a creation of capitalism. People perceived a problem and solved it. For the longest time social media was basically free and a way for people to connect globally, sadly we underestimated how much our brains can break when exposed to hundreds or thousands of opinions at once.

> Again, another corrupted tool at the service of corrupted entities.

It's a tool that was around even before modern 'capitalism' and capitalism's predecessor mercantilism. It's an outgrowth of the barter system...I'm pretty sure even pre-Roman, and earlier, if you count any instances where the government collects taxes. If you want to remove it, you'll need to figure out how to replace it with something that serves the same function but without the "corruption". I don't think that's a thing that's possible, especially if we also remove social media in general and re-center society around physical spaces/interaction.

Also, everyone is egotistical about something they feel they know strongly about, entitlement goes all over the spectrum, as does ignorance. I'm sure a lot of people itt think you're pretty ignorant, although I personally am enjoying the discussion (which is an interesting one, so thank you for being civil). The stronger indicator imo is just having an open mind towards changing or considering other people's perspectives.

I'm just going to disagree on religion in general but it'd be too complex for me to write out so I'm just going to comment that a lot of humanity's creative impulses were worked out through various religious means, religions have historically been a preserver of culture, and religion historically has encouraged charity, goodwill and empathy. Not just Christians, all religions. Marx himself had the opinion that religion was the opium of the masses but didn't seem to be totally against it.

> I kind of agree, I just think that we are subestimating the impact climate change will have very soon. All of these are symptoms of the true cause; dumb humans stuck in their ego driven survival instinct. Corruption arouses from it.

I mean, yeah. But people have been shitty about taking care of their environment for aeons, and it stems mostly from people not realizing what they had until it's gone imo. It doesn't stem directly from capitalism or else we wouldn't have things like silphium going extinct because the Romans ate too much of it, Mayan ecological collapse due to mass-scale farming, the suspiciously timed megafauna extinction events coinciding with the rise of humanity as a species, etc.

I think the biggest thing is that people need to start believe in something more than themselves again. Not through force or fear, they have to sincerely believe in it enough that they'll continue it even when eyes are off them. (To refer back to the Bible again, Christ praises those who pray and believe in private, not making big shows of it.) They have to move past the hedonist, me-first mindset, which historically was tamed by religion, tribalism (my tribe first, not yours), and family.

Like, from what i recall, the capitalist, democratic, newly formed America (to come back to that) could have absolutely collapsed into infighting and chaos the way other freed former colonies did. But they didn't, and Washington in particular was able and willing to generally follow the rules laid out even when they negatively affected him--because he and the other Founders believed in America/democracy. Even one of the big merchants at the time, Haym Levy, who you might consider a capitalist (he was a rich banker, financier, broker) spent all his time financing and raising money for the Revolution, ending up dying penniless because of all his work. Some similar stuff happened with Oskar Schindler, capitalist and businessman who opposed Nazi Germany and spent his entire fortune, going into massive amounts of debt and killing his business, to help hundreds of Jews escape. And there's lots of other examples of capitalists sacrificing what they own for a greater cause they believe in, those are just two off the top of my head.

I don't think our human brains are conceptually able to just automatically be selfless yet, and it's not a dig at 'humans' but an acknowledgment of what we've had to do to survive, but again capitalism in general is able to harness those darker human urges and get them to perform. I don't think communism really has that, unless you have some way to forcibly indoctrinate millions of people at once.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Yes, just like AI, or Google, social media is a powerful tool when not abused, but it's also corrupted and in hands of commercial entities facilitating wars and genocides. Sadly It's a tool designed and corrupted for propaganda and addiction, targeting vulnerable people.

About religion, more of the same. Of course there are non corrupt religious organizations, but the big ones are again in hands of commercial entities facilitating wars and genocides.

I think the biggest thing is that people need to start believe in something more than themselves again. They have to move past the hedonist, me-first mindset, which historically was tamed by religion, tribalism (my tribe first, not yours), and family.

Yes, I completely agree. The system capitalizes on human division to perpetuate itself. And they use their tools; social media and religion, to divide us and seclude us. We should come back to believing in protecting the earth and inhabitants. "The distance between us only exists because we perceive ourselves as different beings".

And there's lots of other examples of capitalists sacrificing what they own for a greater cause they believe in

And at that point, by definition, they have stopped being capitalists.

forcibly indoctrinate millions of people at once.

Religion, social media and money seem to be able to do it. But communism is not egotistical, nor classist, that's why is not that accepted, we need to properly educate and develop ourselves.

Also yes, this is the only civil conversation I had in this post, and it's only possible because we are swallowing our ego and focusing in the actual important part, which is the topic itself. Most social media interactions are tribalistic, people want acceptation and validation, they don't really care about defending the values they claim to uphold, they just want the ego satisfaction.

Like school bullies, trying to get a gotcha moment, even if it is delusional. That's the indoctrination, look at how politicians act now. It has changed a LOT in the past 20 years.

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Usual-Ad-4986@reddit

communism works only in some utopian society but power structures will always attract folks who will corrupt, not only that people also change, to think that politician wont alot more breads to his family or friends because he is muhh communist is regarded

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Just like capitalism works in some utopia society?

Because poverty and wars are rampant, and the world is going to collapse due climate change.

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Usual-Ad-4986@reddit

It works better than communism, both systems or any system for that matter is conducive to corruption, at least in capitalism there are some levers that can slow it down

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AlcoreRain@reddit

No it is not, same Hitler was not a socialist. All capitalists

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Usual-Ad-4986@reddit

He was also a dictator and defeated by other capitalists, idk what point you are trying to make

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AlcoreRain@reddit

That the ones you guys claim were communists, where actually capitalist dictators.

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Usual-Ad-4986@reddit

i said communism paves highway for dictatorship, not that other systems are perfect

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AlcoreRain@reddit

No it doesn't, capitalists using propaganda and labelling themselves "communists" pave the way to dictatorship, in any case.

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Usual-Ad-4986@reddit

Whatever helps you cope

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Same to you man hahah

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AOC_Gynecologist@reddit

A dictatorship, by definition, cannot be communism.

What if you call it "people's party' and add "democratic" at the start of your country's name ? or is that not part of your "theory" ? Cause it sure as fuck is part of the "practice".

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AlcoreRain@reddit

You know what is also part of the supposedly "practice"? Power, corruption and social classes.

Something that shouldn't exist in Marxist communism.

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AOC_Gynecologist@reddit

ah yes, if only those pesky human things that have existed since the dawn of human existence didn't exist.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

"Thinks the thief that everyone is of their condition". Not every person steals.

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AOC_Gynecologist@reddit

no amount of your pathetic diversionary accusations will change the fact that some things are just part of human existence

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Sure, maybe part of you buddy.

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AOC_Gynecologist@reddit

tankies and doubling down on the same failed argument: why is it such an iconic duo ?

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Say what you want, it may be inconceivable for you, but there are countries where you can leave your wallet on the ground and it will come back to you intact.

There are countries where people behave not because they are fearful of a god, but because of basic education.

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owPOW@reddit

Damn, we should stick to capitalism. No death and extermination there!

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Round_Bullfrog_8218@reddit

My main take away from Marxs is that

A. it's old and the despite what they say he really didn't do a very good job of predicting the future. I'll

B. References to all the commie talking points.

I don't know realistically I think the issue is that Marx is basically a prophet. The left has kind of floundered and it seems like instead of just trying to figure out why and move forward they all kind of like to hearken back to Marx's as the true prophet and the lefts failures do to lack of applying his works like he said they should be applied. But in reality he lived in the mid 1800s and just didn't know how the future would unfold.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

What he said still holds up perfectly even by today standards.

Can you mention any example?

Also we live in a complete capitalist world, left wing today is absolutely not clinging to Marx values, we are pointing the faults of today and looking for solutions, unlike you know, billionaires destroying the world via climate change.

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vulpes21@reddit

Das Kapital is one of the best books written about capitalism along with The Wealth of Nations.

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WhiteSepulchre@reddit

Don't tell the zionist right bootlickers that Adam Smith says Capitalism must be controlled by the state to prevent oligarchs from dominating the people.

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foreveracubone@reddit

The entire field of sociology is derived from the writings of Engels. People may disagree with their conclusions but they were astute observers of society & capitalism.

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Mr__Castle_@reddit

A million zeros don't add up to 1.

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Aurora428@reddit

I mean his ideology has killed dozens of millions of people so that's like... something I guess?

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philmarcracken@reddit

his ideology has killed dozens of millions of people

It hasn't. Dictatorships have killed millions, and the red scare propaganda had you associate dicatorships with communism. Better dead than red!

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Fantastic-Tale@reddit

I mean, for some reason they correlate - dictatorships and communisms.

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philmarcracken@reddit

Because they called their political parties communist. China does that today. They're also a dicatorship, and operate state owned capitalism.

North korea calls themselves Democratic People's Republic of Korea(DPRK). Party names can be divorced from what the country functionally does. Amazing right?

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Fantastic-Tale@reddit

Nonono, I mean USSR, DPRK, Pot's Kampuchea, Mao's China, Romania, Tito's Yugoslavia... you've got the idea

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philmarcracken@reddit

Ah so the argument is, the more single person dicatorship that subjugates his populace, the more communisty it is?

You're thinking of Carl Marks

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Fantastic-Tale@reddit

More of "the more communisty regime is, the more there is a chance it's also a dictatorship"

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Sentient2X@reddit

Reddit has neither killed nor saved a hundredth of marxist ideologies so def more … contributions

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hamburgertime55@reddit

The Fedoral Bureau of Investigation probably got one police officer killed in the hunt for the Boston marathon bomber.

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Keyser_Imperator@reddit

I dunno man, those random 9 year old post you suddenly need are really helpful

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maicii@reddit

For real, they have help my bussiness a lot lol

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ThrowawayBigotry1@reddit

What business do you have?

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maicii@reddit

Content creation related, it help with a lot of technical stuff in video editing.

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FuckLeRedditMods@reddit

they have help my bussiness a lot lol

didn't realize people needed help stuffing cocks in their mouths

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maicii@reddit

Never underestimate how much your head game can improve !

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Stunning-Field2011@reddit

I dunno, your dad taught me everything he knows.

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Supremely_Zesty@reddit

I love how AI just pulls shit from Reddit. Like you'll look up an apple pie recipe and the Google summary pulls up instructions that start with: "Go [REDACTED] yourself"

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TWK128@reddit

But he also created the groundwork for the typical Redditor. That cancels out at least some of it.

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doxenking@reddit

The informational side of reddit has a lot of good content though. I've gotten many tech issues answered by some guy who last posted 6 years ago.

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bannabananabanna@reddit

In fairness, ol gae Karl's contributions to society are all negative.

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YinuS_WinneR@reddit

Most of reddit is repeating what he mumbled 150 years ago

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LoiterAce@reddit

Its funny because any 14 year old can perfectly imitate Marx, i’ve read the Communist Manifesto and besides some big words it is near identical to something I would have said as an edgy rebellious teen

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0cc1dent@reddit

Lol learn dialectics. Communist Manifesto is literally meant to be dumbed down for a wide audience

Most 14 year olds cannot read Hegel. The Hegelian dialectic is not explicitly mentioned in Das Kapital but is the underlying subtext as Marx draws out the contradiction between use value and value.

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LoiterAce@reddit

Communism is also incredibly hypocritical. It claims to be an anti-imperialistic doctrine, but all Russia and China do is make empty threats and threaten to “reclaim” land

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0cc1dent@reddit

They arent expanding just maintaining. I will never support our govt meddling in Russia and China while they try to preserve their borders

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LoiterAce@reddit

“Preserve their borders” is a buzzword they used so they dont look imperialistic. Its not “maintaining their borders” if they’re aggressively invading sovereign land.

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0cc1dent@reddit

Taiwan is China, China's not invading but wants the US not to meddle. And Donbas and Crimea wanted to join Russia.

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LoiterAce@reddit

Donbas and Crimea can join Russia, but other ukrainian countries dont. Taiwan is their own country. Careful buddy you’re sounding pretty imperialist there, you might shit your government branded diaper

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LoiterAce@reddit

The ideals of marx are incredibly similar to a rebellious teenager. The wording may be simple, but the Communist Manifesto feels like something you’d read in an emo kid’s diary

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0cc1dent@reddit

Marx didnt have ideals. You clearly dont understand him at all

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McCrackenYouUp@reddit

I didn't really know anything about Marx so I perused the Wikipedia on him.

Suffice it to say that OP might be minimizing some of what he did. The man was a philosopher. What philosopher is known for anything other than their ideas? In his field he was pretty fucking successful- you know his name and like me incredibly superficial things about what he said.

For someone that "never made any real contributions to society," he sure still is rustling a fuckload of jimmies with those ideas.

Most of us, practically all of us, will die and be entirely forgotten forever, not even a shit stain on history like few are. It just seems kind of feckless to criticize someone for something you're arguably wrong about.

I don't think communism is viable for us, but I think you'd have to be somewhat daft to think any system has no flaws worthy of criticism.

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

You got dismissed as soon as you said Wikipedia.

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McCrackenYouUp@reddit

As if me referring to a book would have been any better. I'm sure people that think Wikipedia has no real info think they're very intelligent.

When you want to find possible sources (listed on the bottom of EVERY page), look up the molecular weight of something, or a get a basic overview on a subject or person, I'd love to know the better place people begin.

People that never had to study anything or do anything other than flip burgers their entire careers might think you can't get anything of value from Wikipedia, but everyone that has actually used it knows there are cases where it's incredibly convenient for basic info.

Your comment smells exactly like the mental giants that say someone is a Redditor as an insult... While they're also on Reddit.

I guess you could spend 90% of your time on the website you claim to hate, posting memes and shitty comments on the 4chan subreddit, and never actually learn anything about the world around you in favor of nonsense shared by ignoramuses that get no bitches.

Seems like a sad life to me, though.

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

Dude stop projecting.

gif

[-]

McCrackenYouUp@reddit

To show me that I'm the one projecting you reply with a meme no man that's touched a woman's vag would have ever heard of, cared about, or thought was interesting in the slightest.

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

The problem with this scenario is that do you honestly believe that they would give a honest non biased take on that subject. Since you know Wikipedia is known for being a neutral website.

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McCrackenYouUp@reddit

Man, you have to be soooo far gone to not be able to distinguish between basic, inconsequential facts and editorializing.

You clearly didn't read what I originally wrote so this comment just comes off as entirely misguided and moronic.

Nowhere in my comment did I say much of anything about the actual ideas he had except that communism wouldn't be viable for us. The rest of what I wrote was entirely my opinion and not really commenting on anything specific from Wiki on him except that he was a philosopher. I guess his field of study is fake news, though?

My comment you never read was more intended to point out the fact that OP accused the man of being a loser, yet people are still talking about him almost 200 years later.

Then you latched onto the first sentence as if it was the most important part of what I said. Galaxy-brained shit, to be sure.

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Cumsocktornado@reddit

As the roughest of heuristics the integrity of a philosophy, ideology or religion can be estimated by how hard it is to be like its heroes.

Jesus Christ, for instance, is very tough to properly imitate to the point you can try your entire life and not get it right.

Acting like Marx, however, is so easy that any teenager with no athleticism or skill and a disproportionate ego can imitate him perfectly.

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LeglessElf@reddit

The man who wrote Mein Kampf turned Germany into a dominant global power in a matter of years. Very few could properly imitate his life or achieve what he achieved.

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Ecstatic-Compote-595@reddit

Global power in the sense of the military was causing a lot of problems but Germany as a nation at the time was still a complete shitshow. You wouldn't have pointed at germany at the time and said look at how good they're doing look at how happy and wealthy the people are.

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69redditfag69@reddit

and we owe him an apology

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Cumsocktornado@reddit

I doubt it would possible to achieve what he did without some blend of impressive drive, vision and charisma and certainly no small amount of work, so on those grounds I'm also willing to grant it would be hard to live up to him or his philosophy like he did, even if the him/philosophy in question is... controversial, let's say.

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oby100@reddit

Writing something anyone cares about is very difficult. Not sure how you can paint anyone famous for their writings as not accomplishing anything difficult

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Cumsocktornado@reddit

perhaps but my claim is how hard it is to be person such and such in terms of their actions and behaviour, not whether their writings had an impact.

In Marx's case he wrote very influential things, sure, but he was also a petulant whiny mooch who made everyone around him miserable. It is not hard to act like Marx.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

You are not even able to understand Marx's work, much less replicate it in any way buddy

He was an economist who moved masses and prompted labour reforms in London and internationally.

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

He was an economist

Lol, lmao even. That's like asking a historian for adivce on options trading.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

He was an economist, that is just a fact. He had the education and the work to back it up. Take a look at his life and learn for yourself, you are just repeating what others say.

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

You're delusional. His economics was populist-scifi utopias. He argued in favor of company-store voucher systems.

His work as a political activist was important because he spoke towards detached academic elites pathing the way for Leninism.

Engels was the better philosopher. He actually approached class struggles via historic lens of economics. The fact that you're only mentioning Marx as an economist shows you're clueless.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

You guys are NEVER able to name a single example. Never.

And this post and the whole anti communist rhetoric are the ones focusing on Marx, what are you even saying hahahha

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_voucher

Reread my comment, it's unedited. Marx argued in favor of latestage capitalist company vouchers backed by government military force. You're crashing out bro. Take a chill pill and accept the fact that a guy from 100 years ago was wrong.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Marx initially refused the idea in the Poverty of Philosophy, especially within capitalism (I. chapter, 2. §). Marx stated that time in itself separated from other people's time is not suitable to measure the value of work. Value "is constituted, not by the time needed to produce it by itself, but in relation to the quota of each and every other product which can be created at the same time" (3.§. A.). According to Marx, the introduction of labour vouchers would create a lazy society and economy as there would not be concurrency between employers and employees, so nobody would be able to tell what the optimal (minimal) time needed to produce anything would be.

Are you kidding me? This is from your own link HAHAHHAH

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

Check one paragraph down. It's common for populists to flip flop on their stances to fit whatever narritive they want.

Marx initially refused the idea in the Poverty of Philosophy, especially within capitalism (I. chapter, 2. §). Marx stated that time in itself separated from other people's time is not suitable to measure the value of work. Value "is constituted, not by the time needed to produce it by itself, but in relation to the quota of each and every other product which can be created at the same time" (3.§. A.). According to Marx, the introduction of labour vouchers would create a lazy society and economy as there would not be concurrency between employers and employees, so nobody would be able to tell what the optimal (minimal) time needed to produce anything would be. For example, what if "Peter" works 12 hours per day, while "Paul" works only 6 hours. This means that "Peter" worked 6 unnecessary hours and his labour vouchers are not worth anything as this is regarded +6 hours, not to mention other factors of the work. To summarize Marx's opinion in the Poverty of Philosophy, the labour voucher is not suitable to create a new socialist society, and the theory of Proudhon and others is nothing more than a utopian apology of the existing capitalist system. By Friedrich Engels, Proudhon himself tried to introduce the labour voucher system in 1849, but his attempt collapsed soon. Marx was adamant in saying that labour vouchers were not a form of money as they could not circulate — a problem he pointed out in Owen's system of labour-time notes.[citation needed]

>However, they were later advocated by Karl Marx, despite disagreeing with the manner in which they were implemented by Owen, as a way of dealing with immediate and temporary shortages upon the establishment of socialism. Marx explained that this would be necessary since socialism emerges from capitalism and would be "stamped with its birthmarks". In Marx's proposal, an early socialist society would reward its citizens according to the amount of labour they contribute to society. In the Critique of the Gotha Programme, Marx said:

>[T]he individual producer receives back from society—after the deductions have been made—exactly what he gives to it. What he has given to it is his individual quantum of labour. For example, the social working day consists of the sum of the individual hours of work; the individual labour time of the individual producer is the part of the social working day contributed by him, his share in it. He receives a certificate from society that he has furnished such-and-such an amount of labour (after deducting his labour for the common funds); and with this certificate, he draws from the social stock of means of consumption as much as the same amount of labour cost. The same amount of labor which he has given to society in one form, he receives back in another.[6]

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Why are the words so big? Is your vision impaired buddy? Hahahha

Right there it says that he wanted a reworked idea and only because of the short comings of capitalism, implied later to be changed or reworked.

Oh I would love CEOs using fucking labour vouchers.

And yeah, changing and adapting your mind is a sign of intelligence, that's why conservatives are unable to do so.

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

Lol that's a cope argument, he was wrong and had no solutions of his own.

Marx was a poser and the founder of the worst political-economic movement in human history. The fact that you're simping for him without reading his work is peak soyjak behavior.

Feel free to give me one of your reddit awards for winning this argument btw. That's if your wife's boyfriend will buy some for you

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Cope argument from your part? You have demonstrated nothing man. Marx has a very influential work, who helped raise class consciousness and fight for workers rights, and his analysis of capitalism was spot on even today.

This post and all the people commenting here are the ones coping and trying to discredit and lie about his work. "Never made any contributions to society", maximum cope buddy. Just personal insults. I think you are the only one who has at least attempted to critique some part of his ideology; just in a superficial and incomplete way. Trying to get a meaningless "gotcha" moment, like your influencers.

Oh, I wish more people would read anything at all these days, projecting much? What do you recommend?

Feel free to give me one of your reddit awards for winning this argument btw. That's if your wife's boyfriend will buy some for you

You guys are genuinely amazing HAHAHAH

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

You have yet to provide evidence that he was an economist.

I have been the only person to give any sources among all these messages in this coversation. I believe I managed to make you read more of Marx today than you've read in your entire lifetime.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

You have yet to provide evidence that he was an economist.

You have yet to provide evidence that he was not an economist. We are talking about him because of his economic analysis of capitalism.

I have been the only person to give any sources among all these messages in this coversation.

A source for an irrelevant single point, although well done.

I believe I managed to make you read more of Marx today than you've read in your entire lifetime.

Keep fantasizing about me, you have only reaffirmed what I already knew. You are perfect example of what capitalism and social media does to the brain.

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

I did provide proof that he was a hack populist within academia. AND that you've never read Marx.

You can't provide proof to your original statement because he wasn't an economist. He was a hegalian philosopher who had bad ideas

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AlcoreRain@reddit

No you didn't, you presented proof of nothing.

You are literally talking about his economic analysis, and his points are still relevant today.

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

His economic analysis that he knew less about daily economics than the military? That his grasp of economics was so poor he advocated for voucher systems controlled by benevolent dicators?

How about you share one of his ideas that actually produced valued change for once. In the mean time read up on an economist 100yrs befor marx who understood how mix monetary systems work.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Class consciousness much?

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

Okay how did that impact economics? Did knowing poor people where within the lower caste lead to a new economic model of production? How is it different to a social psychology analysis?

Produce, in your own words, what it means in terms of actual economics. How was Marx an economist with his idea of Class consciousness.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

You are going in circles. You asked about what did Marx said that had an impact.

Marx talked about how global agenda would outsourced cheap labour for example. And of course a classist system is related to economics.

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

There you go. Congrats.

It took you 9 humiliating messages to give a basic answer to how marx was an "economist". (One of the worst in human history, even during his own lifetime time)

Please just take some time to read Marx and Engels writings so you know what you're talking about for your future endeavors. Otherwise you're just going to get clowned on again and again like you did here.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Sure buddy, and you were unable to demonstrate how Marx was not a hugely influential economist hahahahhah

Do you think your emotional underdevelopment and ego mishandling is also the fault of capitalism?

Again, I hope you could open your mind and see this from an outside perspective, because you don't even know what you are doing.

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

There you go. Congrats.

It took you 9 humiliating messages to give a basic answer to how marx was an "economist". (One of the worst in human history, even during his own lifetime time)

Please just take some time to read Marx and Engels writings so you know what you're talking about for your future endeavors. Otherwise you're just going to get clowned on again and again like you did here.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

What? Is your brain stuck? Are you okay buddy? Hahahahha

You are unable to refute that Marx is a hugely influential economist. And no amount of embarrassing comments from your part will change it.

The only thing you have achieved here is entertaining me and nudge me towards communism.

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

There you go. Congrats.

It took you 11 humiliating messages to give a basic answer to how marx was an "economist". (One of the worst in human history, even during his own lifetime time)

Please just take some time to read Marx and Engels writings so you know what you're talking about for your future endeavors. Otherwise you're just going to get clowned on again and again like you did here.

[-]

AlcoreRain@reddit

Yup, I broke you hahahhaha

Usually people block me, but you are copy pasting like a bot to have the last world, like an actual child. (Also not the first time I see this "tactic").

Thanks for confirming for everyone to see that you guys don't know what you are doing! Hahahha

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

There you go. Congrats.

It took you 12 humiliating messages to give a basic answer to how marx was an "economist". (One of the worst in human history, even during his own lifetime time)

Please just take some time to read Marx and Engels writings so you know what you're talking about for your future endeavors. Otherwise you're just going to get clowned on again and again like you did here.

[-]

AlcoreRain@reddit

Ooooh poor guy I truly broke his brain hahahha

It took you 12 humiliating messages to give a basic answer to how marx was an "economist"

No it didn't, and why would the count go up If I already gave an answer? You don't even make sense anymore hahahahhahahah

You were unable to provide a single answer of why Marx is not one of the most influential economists in history

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

[-]

Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

There you go. Congrats.

It took you 13 humiliating messages to give a basic answer to how marx was an "economist". (One of the worst in human history, even during his own lifetime time)

Please just take some time to read Marx and Engels writings so you know what you're talking about for your future endeavors. Otherwise you're just going to get clowned on again and again like you did here.

[-]

AlcoreRain@reddit

Why would the count go up If I already gave an answer?

Your brain broke hahahahahha

[-]

Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

There you go. Congrats.

It took you 14 humiliating messages to give a basic answer to how marx was an "economist". (One of the worst in human history, even during his own lifetime time)

Please just take some time to read Marx and Engels writings so you know what you're talking about for your future endeavors. Otherwise you're just going to get clowned on again and again like you did here.

[-]

AlcoreRain@reddit

Ok buddy, I know you are still reading my comments... so why do you pretend?

Just swallow your ego and drop the conversation if you are not able to keep going.

At this point you are just embarrassing yourself and proving to anyone that stumbles into this conversation that capitalism is a mental disease.

[-]

Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

There you go. Congrats.

It took you 15 humiliating messages to give a basic answer to how marx was an "economist". (One of the worst in human history, even during his own lifetime time)

Please just take some time to read Marx and Engels writings so you know what you're talking about for your future endeavors. Otherwise you're just going to get clowned on again and again like you did here.

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CudleWudles@reddit

Lol, lmao even

Can you just speak normally?

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Happy_Ocelot_4945@reddit

whomst'd've'ly'yaint'nt'ed'ies's'y'es cares? Le meow

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Bovolt@reddit

You are not even able to understand Marx's work

Apperantly nobody can because broke leftists still claim that real communisim hasn't been tried yet.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Because it hasn't been tried yet, and you guys are never able to refute it.

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Bovolt@reddit

There's nothing to refute. The idea of perfect communism is impossible to execute in a human led society with earthly resource scarcity. The attempts you've seen already are how it turns out and how it will continue to turn out because humankind is not entirely made up of stage 2 autistics.

Believing that this idealized communism is possible and sustainable requires a level of fantastical belief and imagination on par with thinking that getting isekai'd into a fantasy world is an actual afterlife.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

First of all, Marxist communism hasn't been tried, corrupt dictators took advantage of his ideology.

The idea of perfect communism is impossible to execute in a human led society with earthly resource scarcity

Are you confused and talking about capitalism instead? hahahah

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Bovolt@reddit

corrupt dictators took advantage of his ideology

....yea man. That's exactly what I'm getting at when I'm saying that it's not possible in a human led society. The human element will always be present.

I suppose I shouldn't be shocked that an unironic commie has shit reading comprehension lmao

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Buddy you remind me of people being astonished when a wallet is returned in Japan with the money intact or when stores leave stuff on the street unattended in northern european countries.

"Thinks the thief that everyone is of their condition". Not everyone is ignorant or corrupt. And if you can't fathom it I have bad new for you.

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faragul@reddit

High trust societies can only exist with people who are homogeneous to the point of no drastic differences existing among the populus. It’s not just a cultural phenomenon but a racial one as well, because behaviour and intelligence are all hereditary traits, which is why socialist policies can exist perfectly well within the capitalist system in Scandinavia. As long as these milestones are checked you can basically form any idealistic social model without any discrepancies.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Found the racist

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Bovolt@reddit

Not everyone is ignorant or corrupt.

Right but you need literally everybody in a position of power to not be to even begin to lay the foundations of a functioning and fair planned economy that can endure both internal developments and outside pressures of capitalism.

If you were even half as smart as you thought you were you'd understand the impossibility of that.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

I am not smart, but I am also not corrupt. What about you? Don't worry don't answer, nobody cares hahahha

Take a look at what Marx had to say about it.

And nothing is impossible, when things start to collapse in some years, let's see what happens. We are too entitled and comfy right now, social media and now AI really did a number on the populace.

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Bovolt@reddit

Far be it for me to argue against such whimsical, childlike belief.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

I mean, don't take my word, look at history and the direction the world is going.

Things are going to get bad, and we will have to pick the fucking CEOs from their underground bunkers and islands.

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Bovolt@reddit

History shows that the fall of empires is not, in fact, followed by a lasting rule of benevolent altruists.

A form of economy requiring both a mild collapse of civilization and only pure, good people rising to the top afterwards to have a chance to exist isn't very realistic. I'm sure this is lost on you.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

I am not saying that this is what leads to communism, I am saying this collapse is the path we are walking towards with our current corrupt version of 'capitalism'. History will keep being cyclical until we tackle the roots of the problem.

And yes, radical totalitarian governments rise up after collapses, so it's very improbable that anything sort of socialist comes out of it, and the high class count on it.

Only cooperation and education trough local action, and the organisation and union of the working class will truly change things, although with the hold that social media and the system has on us right now, the tendency has yet to flip.

This post and comments are very telling signs of the state of the chronically online attitude of the population, and you know it.

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trollman1234@reddit

This is my stance, it's a cute little creative writing prompt basically talking about political philosophy. Nothing more than a fairy tale at best. Humans are beyond incompetent, so yeah this perfect communism is cute to read and all, nice to cope with, but it's basically a fantasy when you try to actually follow through.

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RogueCoon@reddit

These people aren't worth having a serious debate with. You have to concede reality exists.

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Cynical_Tripster@reddit

And still never had a job, and mooched off of friends and family, hence contributing nothing.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

He was a writer, philosopher, journalist, economist, activist, his published works are academically recognized as some of the most influential and important in the field. He directly contributed to worker rights movements in London, and his work's influence extended trough the whole world.

You guys are lying or plain misinformed.

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Lachmuskelathlet@reddit

Jesus Christ, for instance, is very tough to properly imitate to the point you can try your entire life and not get it right.

Kek.

You has basically no biographical information about the historical Jesus and for a Christian, his role as "Son of God" is the important part, not his biography.

The New Testament says nothing about him being married or having a "job", while Mark 6 strongly implies he had brothers, sisters, and a family. He does not seem to do much for them.
Instead, Mark 6:8 explicitly states, “Take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bread, no bag, no money in your belts”.

Did you truelly follow this as a role model?

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EnterprisingAss@reddit

Writing thousands of pages that altered the course of world history can be imitated by anyone?

Please go ahead, run the experiment.

It isn’t even relevant if you think the effects of his writing were entirely bad. He’s a writer of world historical importance.

Posting dumb talking points is pretty easy though.

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belabacsijolvan@reddit

by that metric scientology and gundam anime are the highest levels of philosophy

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Cumsocktornado@reddit

i am prepared to afford way more respect towards gundam model nerds and possibly even one of those scientologists if they are friendly and charitable than i am a marxist of any stripe

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denialofcervix@reddit

You not gonna do shit but say "yes comrade" and go to your job.

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UnknowingCarrot69@reddit

Now why would I do that unless under threat of violence!

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Cumsocktornado@reddit

I’m only going to ask you once to leave my French fries alone please

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lackofdoritos@reddit

well sure, he knows that, he's just saying you're retarded is all

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shinsnatcher@reddit

Gundam slander won't be tolerated here you 💈🚬

gif

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0cc1dent@reddit

But the heroes of Marxism are Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro. It's very hard to be like them

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maicii@reddit

What? Marx was a sociologist/economist/philosopher he never was suppose to be imitated, he is not a religious figure my dude. You are just suppose to read his writing and engage with his ideas, that’s it. Also with that logic it’s probably harder to imitate Keynes live than Jesus lol.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

I hope this is bait, it would be a very good one.

If not you guys are truly delusional.

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ChocolateMilkCows@reddit

This is the dumbest shit I’ve read today.

The hero from my story is more perfect than the hero from your story, therefore my story is better

What you are describing is how power-scaling shonen weeb and comic book capeshit fandoms argue with each other, not a technique for assessing the integrity of ideas.

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bannabananabanna@reddit

that seems to be hi main appeal!

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AgentSkidMarks@reddit

Professional dog walker

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iamAliAsghar@reddit

"Never made any real contributions to society", I dont know bro, his book gave nightmares to European capitalists and still explains behaviors of capitalists till this day and gave rise to two super powers.

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gayhotelultra@reddit

which super powers did marx give rise to exactly

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DarkGamer@reddit

China and the USSR, clearly

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gayhotelultra@reddit

im going to assume this is sarcasm, but im replying for the other guy to see

i live in china, it only is the economic superpower it is today specifically due to undoing the influence of maoism, if it werent for deng, it would be no better than india (exact phrasing my chinese friend used). and as of this year, elementary history textbooks have no mentions of marx/marxism-leninism, they are completely past it

russia mainly survived the USSR thanks to cultural dominance and having a permanent UN seat, they are "powerful" in spite of marxism, not because of it, and even then, only if you consider the failed state that is the russian federation a superpower

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Juoksulasol@reddit

Russian culture famously dominated the world pre 1917, you are very learned. And it was so nice of the UN to give the USSR a permanent seat at the security council for literally no reason at all.

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gayhotelultra@reddit

look at the size of the ussr (and what was up until then russia), or the reach of their music, cinema, visual arts, so on. then consider that tsarist russia under alexander I was opening relations, both culturally and economically, with other major european powers before someone smoked him because his reforms werent red enough.

if you still think russia didnt have any cultural power then idk what to tell you man

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b1ackenthecursedsun@reddit

Hes being sarcastic dumbass

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gayhotelultra@reddit

..?

he was, and i responded with what hes trying to express via sarcasm. are you mentally reditted?

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DarkGamer@reddit

for literally no reason at all.

There were many reasons.

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DarkGamer@reddit

Yes, and being ostensibly communist was part of the path that led to here. A good case can be made that an actual communist society has yet to emerge and the Marxist-Leninist and Maoist governments that called themselves such were inaccurately labeled, or at very least it was an aspirational title. This nuance is lacking when most westerners talk about communism.

The modern Russian Federation may not be a superpower but most people agree that the USSR was, and China certainly is.

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0cc1dent@reddit

Communism is both a goal and a movement towards that goal. This is the understanding of dialectics. The USSR and China were communist and are great.

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gayhotelultra@reddit

the problem is that being "ostensibly communist" means very little. yeah, marx argues that for a communist society to occur there must first be a successful capitalist one, which is why you have countries like vietnam operate market economies practically forever under the idea of the road to a communist society, but functionally, this doesnt mean much for the communist cause.

the USSR being a superpower is only an argument in favor of communism if you dont care about the lives of the citizens, which, hey, communists

arguing about "true communism" is inherently futile from either side because its either an extremely variably defined term assuming you stray from marx, and if you dont, then its the ravings of a madman

economists dont prove anything with terms like capitalism, communism, socialism, etc. for a reason: ask 10 different people and you will get 10 different answers. free market, mixed, and planned models of economies are what is studied for a reason: these words can actually be used for the sake of empirical policy

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DarkGamer@reddit

the USSR being a superpower is only an argument in favor of communism if you dont care about the lives of the citizens, which, hey, communists

I have not interpreted any of the comments thus far as arguing for communism. The case being made is that Marx gave rise to 2 superpowers, and the revolutions on the USSR's and China's respective paths to becoming superpowers indeed would not have happened without Marx, (or at least would not have occurred as they did.)

arguing about "true communism" is inherently futile from either side because its either an extremely variably defined term assuming you stray from marx,

My point is that these societies did not walk their talk, they leaned into despotism and along the way appear to have stopped working towards a classless, stateless society, which is what defines communism.

economists dont prove anything with terms like capitalism, communism, socialism, etc. for a reason: ask 10 different people and you will get 10 different answers.

These terms do in fact have established meanings but due to decades of propaganda, a lack of scholarly education about such systems, and shifting goals due to realpolitik they are often nebulous among the general public.

free market, mixed, and planned models of economies are what is studied for a reason: these words can actually be used for the sake of empirical policy

Indeed, mixed systems that temper the worst aspects of each seems to be the most viable option today.

[-]

gayhotelultra@reddit

the revolutions on the USSR's and China's respective paths to becoming superpowers indeed would not have happened without Marx, (or at least would not have occurred as they did without him.)

this is actually a super intriguing point. now, the october revolution would obviously not have happened without marx, the tsardom became very despotic after the assassination of alexander I, which was not marxist, but anarchist; the people's will was socialist yet anti-marxist, no less. russia would likely continue for some time as an autocratic monarchy, but what would have happened afterwards, we cant say. when it comes to china, despite of me indirectly badmouthing mao, no mistake can be made: he was a genius guerilla strategist, and an awful politican. china would have been unified under mao regardless of his affiliation (with the right alliances, though), and what would happen from there, again, we cant say

alternatively, the kuomitang was, at the time, no better than the CPC, and taiwan was a dictatorship under chiang kai sheks rule until he died. then his son decided democracy is cooler. yay.

My point is that these societies did not walk their talk, they leaned into despotism and along the way appear to have stopped working towards a classless, stateless society, which is what defines communism.

personally, i have my doubts on whether such a thing is possible. the socialists were called "utopians" for a reason before marx rolled along. a noble goal, but historically, consistently, the road was paved with bloodshed

These terms do in fact have established meanings but due to decades of propaganda, a lack of scholarly education about such systems, and shifting goals due to realpolitik they are often nebulous among the general public.

while i would argue realpolitik is a good thing, the general public is horribly uneducated on these topics and politics as a whole. much of the rest of this thread can be seen as evidence

Indeed, mixed systems that temper the worst aspects of each seem to be the most viable options today.

i can certainly agree there

you know, i didnt expect to have a rational, level headed discussion on this topic on arr 4chan. props to you, man

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thorarern@reddit

Wrong

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Waffle_shuffle@reddit

China is not a superpower, let's not muddy the definition. Also communism did not help china become powerful, it was capitalism and being the world's factory that allowed it to become so rich. China is authoritarian and has high levels of capitalism, in some ways even more capitalist than america.

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rampantradius@reddit

Beyond ad hominem, do critics (or haters) of Marx offer any rigorous engagement with the architecture of his arguments themselves?

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small_brain67@reddit (OP)

Empirical evidence is already sufficient.

All his points are basically used by frustrated people that cannot understand that their frustration relies in themselves, therefore they will blame a system because it is easier.

All of Marx's points can be refuted easily.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

"All of Marx's points can be refuted easily". Hahahahhaha

Refute a single one (spoiler: you are not able to)

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small_brain67@reddit (OP)

Judging by your profile you are 14 years old. You dont even know what you are talking about. I have read communist books. You?

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AlcoreRain@reddit

"All of Marx's points can be refuted easily". Hahahahhaha

Refute a single one (spoiler: you are not able to)

Your children playground personal attacks are only proof hahahah

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small_brain67@reddit (OP)

what do you want me to refute: give a Marx argument and I will try to refute it.

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token_internet_girl@reddit

I'll play

""Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary"

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small_brain67@reddit (OP)

Ehm, where did you find it. I actually agree on a lot of marx's smaller points, but I am talking mostly of his economic theories and societal takes.

Your example is like saying refute Marx's "feudal society was oppressive". I mean he is right.

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token_internet_girl@reddit

Where did I find it? Bruh that's one of his most famous ideas. Socialists do not trust liberals. They actively work to try and undermine the working class. The quote comes from Marx warning working people to stay armed after seizing power from the owner class because liberals would ruin their future.

Ok so we're 2 and 0 for points you agree with, how about listing a specific idea from his text that you disagree with?

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small_brain67@reddit (OP)

What book or letter did you find this? that is my question.

I disagree with his way of thinking that:

-liberalism is there only to serve the bourgois and that laws are only made for the ruling class - I dont agree with his alienation stance: he said that the worker does feel alienated from different point of views (I think they were 5) and that religion is only oppressive (he said when the workers get rid of capitalism it will free them also from religion) --> today we see that liberalism leads to less religion not more -his whole work concentrated on the UK industrial revolution: today the economy looks conoletely different, his alienation points fall for other sectors. - he was against the privatization of means of production which kills all economic incentives and makes the society less productive and poorer. -he was agaisnt the state and money as a means of exchange which is literally impossible apllied to large states, anarchy does not work -he argued that the capitalist was oppressive full stop. He said that the capitalist gainst from exploiting the worker (plus value theory) because he paid them less than they produced and all the profits went to the capitalist: today means of production can be owned by the workers too, and he didnt calculate in thebequation the risk of putting capital in an enterprise. He is strictly against profit maximization, which usually leads to efficiency because 1) you try to minimize costs by innovation and technology 2) you try to satisfy the client giving him the best product at the best price if there is good competition -etc (it becomes too long)

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AlcoreRain@reddit

-liberalism is there only to serve the bourgois and that laws are only made for the ruling class

Is it not? How not? Take a look around.

today the economy looks conoletely different

In what aspect? I think he pretty much nailed it even by today's standards.

liberalism leads to less religion not more

A yes, the classic atheists Trump, Milei, Putin, Netanyahu, etc

which kills all economic incentives and makes the society less productive and poorer

That's simply a projection from the POV of lazy rich people and not true. People create despite money constraints, no thanks to it. Take a look at scientists, writers, programmers, social workers, medical, firefighters, hand crafting people, creatives, etc... they don't do it for the money.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

anarchy does not work

He didn't advocate for anarchism though

2) you try to satisfy the client giving him the best product at the best price if there is good competition

If you yourself and your people are the "client", you do it best. 'Cheapification', speculation, abuse of the workers and the environment, are inherent parts of capitalism because the easiest way to make money in short term is stealing. That's why wars, scams, corporations polluting, etc, are a thing.

Amazon is one of the biggest corporations and abuses his workers.

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small_brain67@reddit (OP)

Capitalism is literally anti racist and anti discrimination. The capitalist wants to profit, therefore he does not care if he sells to a muslim or to a jew, to a gay or to a black. He wants to profit. Our society is based on freedom and there was a huge liberalization due to liberalism in every aspect of our society (minority rights, lgbt, women etc). They can profit on this and they do. There are laws even for them and the state can still break monopolies etc. Over centuries the worker's right and average well being skyrocketed in the West.

Today the economy of the Wesy is not based on the primary and secondary sectors but on tertiary (services). This changes completely how our production works and therefore our economy.

Milei is not even religious I think. Trump and Netanyahu? what does this even have to do with religion? In the West people identifying as Christians has fallen a lot in the last century, but really a lot.

The majority of people create because there is an incentive to create (whether by the state or by private incentives). You can sell knowledge, products, and property. Under communism it becomes impossible or really difficult.

Here is literally the point: you dont understand what communism is. Because otherwise you wouldnt say that it isnt anarchist. Marx wanted a society that is stateless (endgoal of communism), classless, and moneyless (he said that implicitly in das Kapital, because he envisioned a society without good exchange in the capitalist sense, so with markets).

Abuse of workers or of people will always happen in any society. You can also think it in the smaller sense: your parents force you to work in the garden or shit like this. Workers right improved a lot over time.

Amazon is a monopoly.

I am anticapitalist, but in the fascist sense, not in the communist sense.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Capitalism is literally anti racist and anti discrimination.

Are you serious man? HAHAHAH Look around.

Trump and Netanyahu? what does this even have to do with religion?

Okay, you are genuinely kidding me right? There is a genocide in the name of religion right now, and Trump just posted a picture of himself as Jesus. Don't be obtuse on purpose, or naive.

This changes completely how our production works and therefore our economy.

Again, reread what Marx had to say about the workers, alienation, global commerce and the high class, because it is more prevalent than ever.

there is an incentive to create

Yes, human passion.

And stateless doesn't mean anarchism, and I don't think Marx advocated for it.

[-]

small_brain67@reddit (OP)

And stateless doesn't mean anarchism, and I don't think Marx advocated for it.

Already that tells me everything I gotta know about you.

Yes capitalism is anti racist by definition and I explained why (and this the main problem). People become like objects for capitalists, and become interchangeable, meaning that the market is more important than the people. A capitalist doesnt care about how many workers are indians or if the society is cohese, because until they have a market everything is fine.

I have listened to the capital and seen analysis on youtube on it becuase it is a complicated book with a lot of ideas. I understood the core concepts. Alienation could be a topic today indeed, but the marxist alienation specifically described an industral worker.

Trump is a troll, and the fact that he did that image tells you a lot about him and religion. He did it to troll the pope btw. He cheated etc, I dont think he is religious or that he was voted for it. What genocide are you talking about?

Human passion can be a driver for niche jobs. But passion cannot always replace wellbeing. If you dont gain from it, in the long term you will give up. And passion is not always related to production. A passion can be jogging. For the rest all incentives die.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

How the fuck can you say capitalism is not racist. You guys are genuinely delusional.

Same with your bullshit about religion, you are out of your mind and unable to look at the state of the world.

Palestinian genocide.

"A passion can be jogging". And also carpenter, nurse, engineer, scientist, writer, restaurants, gardener, doctor, administrative, analyst, computers, etc...

There are people for everything, and for the rest, people share the work. And you have way more of a incentive to work when you perceive it as your duty for your people and your country than to fill the pockets of an international CEO.

[-]

small_brain67@reddit (OP)

Bro are you slow or what?

I explain something and you say "how can you say that" I reexplain it and it goes on.

Capitalists dont have incentives to discriminate people because they will lose profit. I will explain it to you once for all like you are 15 (you probably are). I have a lemonade stand, I want to maximize my profits. I dont care if youbare a communist, black, jew, gay or whatever. I only want your money so I will sell you the product. If you discriminate the gay, you will lose money, there are absolutely no incentives for companies to do that.

On religion: and here it is literally the last time I tell you. In the last century under liberalism religious people fell a lot. Your point is so st*pid: b b but trump. What does it have to do with the overall tendency of religion becoming irrelevant in the West (in the long period). There are more atheists than ever. Your point is literally this: I say crime is overall falling, you: b b but the other day in the station they killed somebody or b b but mexico narcos.

There is no genocide in Palestine. Deaths from countries like Suda are much worse than palestine. Even if I agree that it is a massacre.

And the rest... bro you were telling me that Marx didnt believe in a stateless society which is literally one of the core concept he promoted. How can I even take you seriously?

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Then your explanation is factually false and worthless?

Because capitalism is a classist system, and racial discrimination is absolutely part of it.

You need classes to exploit for cheap outsourced labour, obviously.

Correlation doesn't mean causation, of course liberalism is tied to religion and if you fail to see it that's your problem again. There are more atheist than ever because we are more progressive than ever (in general) but religion is absolutely prevalent in conservative/liberal circles.

"There is no genocide in Israel"

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide

You repeat what liberal influencers tell you, meanwhile reality is discarding all you say.

[-]

small_brain67@reddit (OP)

I hope many people as possible see this conversation because it is embarassing.

According to you: classist = racial discrimination

Correlation doesnt mean causation okay. In the sentence after it you say "progressism" caused it another way to say liberalism. Liberalism in thought, liberalism in science, liberalism in culture.

Israel is absolutely committing disproportioned harm. How many are the victims? 100k official right? in 3 years of war in a heavily densely populated area with 2.5 million people representing 3% of the population. This is a genocide?

I am not liberal.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Yes, it is embarrassing from your part, and proof of your delusion.

And yes, there is a genocide in Gaza, stop playing semantics.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

I knew you were not going to be able to mention a single point of his, much less refute it HAHAHAHAH

Just ask AI, or you take a look for yourself and pick any.

[-]

AlcoreRain@reddit

What a load of bullshit buddy hahahah

You are the frustrated one who doesn't even understand Marx's work.

[-]

Moimus@reddit

Dismissing Marx points without reflection is very naive. He's one of the most influential economic theorists of the earlier past. You don't have to agree with everything he wrote but if you just say "lol he dum" you're outing yourself as tard.

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Cutefishes@reddit

He's one of the most influential economic theorists of the earlier past

u're confusing him with socialdemocrats, marx is only relevant among the useless sociology of redditors

[-]

DarkGamer@reddit

Go on…

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Ndm09@reddit

Go on mate, make a fool of yourself, you have the stage

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

gif

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Cutefishes@reddit

Mmm, yes? Mises wrote a whole book about it, analyzing and criticizing marx's capital. some marxists even suggested erecting a statue in his honor, and market socialism also emerged as a kind of response to such criticisms and the contradictions of marxism

Don't expect serious analysis in a humor forum, or at least use /lit/ where the topic is discussed better

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YinuS_WinneR@reddit

Why bother when schoenhauer already have

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

For what since you guys will proceed to act like you don't understand the critics or evidence, proceed to act like its not true because true communism etc, etc.

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

Don't forget the racist part and still rebelling against daddy by being a edgy Satanist .

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FearLeadsToAnger@reddit

Yes capitalists, there's famously never been a racist one.

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Autumn_Fire@reddit

"What is the earthly religion of the jew? Huckstering. Who is his god? Money." -Karl Marx

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Impossible-Age-3302@reddit

Based

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

My favorite is this one.https://marxists.architexturez.net/archive/marx/works/1863/letters/63_01_08.htm

[-]

0cc1dent@reddit

Marx was a real ninja

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bannabananabanna@reddit

even a broken clock...

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Lmao Marx was not a satanist 😭

American?

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

Don't forget rapists and deadbeat father and my favorite part even angle was like wtf when marx ask for money after his buddy die.

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

…what?

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

Do you know anything about marx that is not from a fanfic or tumbler post?

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Fuck me for asking for clarification on a comment with zero punctuation bar one full stop.

Are commas illegal in your country? You post a shitily worded comment then come at my knowledge when I ask wtf your comment was actually saying. Learn to type dawg. Then maybe you might get taken seriously.

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LooseButtPlug@reddit

The irony of this comment.

[-]

SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Care to explain it…?

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LooseButtPlug@reddit

No.

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Aight, no one’s loss 🤷‍♂️

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LooseButtPlug@reddit

Decade old account = instant block.

You contribute nothing to society and I never need to hear your opinion...as proven by previous comments.

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bannabananabanna@reddit

he tries hard to be a marxist, a negative on humanity... indeed a useless eater

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Literally show one comment here of mine that spouts Marxist ideology.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit eh?

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yezdii@reddit

Come on bro don’t cry about punctuation when you could still understand him. You’re pulling a leddit moment right now

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oby100@reddit

Who is “angle” and whose buddy died? That comment is incomprehensible but seemingly calls Marx a bunch of bad things without explaining anything.

Marx is overblown, but it’s amusing that anti communist brainlets just latch onto random generic insults to smear him as if that alone would defeat his ideas.

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yezdii@reddit

whatever bro no one cares

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Hilarious 🤣

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yezdii@reddit

Look bro me and my friend salt_lingonberry1122 don’t care about anything you have to say

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

Word. My favorite is over 10 year old accounts with the same responding comments to any sub they are on. Its literally dead internet theory. The worst part is that he is probably indian so enough said.

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

“Probably Indian” mate you need a therapist to work on yourself first before worrying about the race of commenters on Reddit 😆

That is not the sign of someone with a healthy mind at all 😭

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

So you keep saying 🤣

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yezdii@reddit

yup

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

It was a fucking mess to read, if he can’t be bothered to type properly why should I put any effort into trying to understand that? It was slop lmao

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

Yet my point still stands. You down have any good response so to my shock it comes down to bitchie comments. To my shock I tell you (not) you are probably not even European but probably Chinese or Russian or some other type of 3rd worlder. Is the same idiotic response of are you American in order to dismiss any type of conversation.

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XysterU@reddit

Damn he's getting racist now too. The mask is coming off

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

I still have no idea what your point was. It was a mess of a comment.

You’re giving out about bitchy comments when my comment was literally a reply to:

“Do you know anything about marx that is not from a fanfic or tumbler post?”

That’s literally the bitchiest thing in this thread 🤣

Pot meet kettle.

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

I don't care . The biggest mistake was giving internet access to you 3rd worlders.

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Sorry hang on I’m back this just popped into my head, can’t believe I didn’t see it the first time.

The irony in condemning Marx for being racist while simultaneously claiming I’m a “3rd worlder”….. its actually extraordinary. Judging Marx by standards you don’t even hold yourself to. Telling.

How quickly your own values disappear, huh

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

gif

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Sorry hang on this just popped into my head, can’t believe I didn’t see it the first time.

The irony in condemning Marx for being racist while simultaneously claiming I’m a “3rd worlder”….. its actually extraordinary. Judging Marx by standards you don’t even hold yourself to. Telling.

How quickly your own values disappear, huh

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Cutefishes@reddit

Poor redditor, did you just discover that marx isn't like some hecking marvelino superheroino ?

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Are you… okay?

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Cutefishes@reddit

yeah much better than you, who's seething and mad in all the comments lol

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Seething? Mad? Can you… read?

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CudleWudles@reddit

Where are you getting that he was a rapist? I can't find any source. Also, angle? Jesus Christ.

[-]

Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

Look up the maid he got from his wife family and the child which he denied and just to be a dick who angle adopted as his own. Since prince and princess live a lavish lifestyle just like a true proletariat.

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CudleWudles@reddit

He raped that maid? Again, where is that coming from? There isn't a single historical source I can find.

[-]

Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

https://www.google.com/search?q=did+karl+marx+have+a+maid&sca_esv=f0f46d557053f7c4&sxsrf=ANbL-n55C7d8NWJzAPGQJHQvLqekv1IhsA%3A1776115298534&source=hp&ei=Yl7dabiJHoqbptQPsLOw-Ac&biw=360&bih=595&oq=did+karl+marx+have+a+maid&gs_lp=EhFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocCIZZGlkIGthcmwgbWFyeCBoYXZlIGEgbWFpZDIFEAAYgAQyBhAAGBYYHjIGEAAYFhgeMgYQABgWGB4yBhAAGBYYHjIGEAAYFhgeMgsQABiABBiGAxiKBTILEAAYgAQYhgMYigVI1D5QtgdYij1wAngAkAEAmAG_AaAB4haqAQUxMy4xM7gBA8gBAPgBAZgCHKAC2hioAjHCAgoQIxjABhgnGOoCwgIKEC4YwAYYJxjqAsICEBAjGPAFGMAGGCcYyQIY6gLCAg0QIxjwBRjABhgnGOoCwgIOEAAYtAIY6gIY2wXYAQHCAhAQABgDGLQCGOoCGI8B2AEBwgIEECMYJ8ICChAjGIAEGCcYigXCAgsQLhiABBiRAhiKBcICCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFwgIOEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYxwHCAgsQABiABBixAxiDAcICDhAuGIAEGMcBGI4FGK8BwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAg4QLhiABBixAxiDARiKBcICCBAuGIAEGLEDwgIEEAAYA8ICDhAAGIAEGLEDGIMBGIoFwgIFECEYoAHCAgUQABjvBcICCBAAGIAEGKIEmAMX8QXdaTHJt5iBC7oGBAgBGBeSBwQ5LjE5oAfJngGyBwQ3LjE5uAe6GMIHCjAuMS4xNi45LjLIB_EBgAgA&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp

[-]

CudleWudles@reddit

I didn't ask if he had a maid. I understand what you're referencing and not pushing back on the existence of the maid or kid.

[-]

Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

I literally gave you the maid and the son. Yet I am not being forward enough.

[-]

CudleWudles@reddit

I've only asked about Marx being a rapist.

[-]

Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

https://www.google.com/search?q=who+adopted+karl+marx+maid+kid&sca_esv=f0f46d557053f7c4&sxsrf=ANbL-n6zlZD7Jrb1_F8jRR377YLcnbO6sg%3A1776115336157&source=hp&ei=iF7daZCjB_CcptQP3YuHuAo&biw=360&oq=who+adopted+karl+marx+maid+kid&gs_lp=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&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp

[-]

Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

https://cbkwgl.wordpress.com/2016/11/05/the-fiddler-karl-marx/

[-]

SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

That’s a fucking poem 😭

Seriously is education illegal over there?

I can type “hail Satan” right here right now. Do you think that makes me a satanist? Ahahahah

[-]

Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

Okay bud 👍. What is the poem about you all mighty person. I am not even American you 3rd worlder . I know he is a god in your eyes but to act like this is isn't well known is just intellectually dishonest.

[-]

SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Ahahahaha yikes.

It’s not “well known” it’s a fucking lie based on his art ahahahahha man. Easily Googleable to see where the claim comes from 🤣

If you’re not American why tf are you using brainwashed uneducated satanic panic Americanisms? Too much tv?

[-]

Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

Its official you are funded . This is the common tactics that they use. So if were to say that marx is a racist especially to blacks,jews, and Cubans since his daughter marry one. Is this made up also. Yet you act like the satanic panic only happened in America. Thank goodness Europe never had those problems before the 20th century.

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CudleWudles@reddit

racist especially to blacks,jews, and Cubans

He hated Cubans?

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

His daughter Mary a Cuban man.https://www.google.com/search?q=karl+marx+daughter+married+a+cuban&sca_esv=f0f46d557053f7c4&sxsrf=ANbL-n4kgcq91yW1HnvxudFXKouGVkCQSQ%3A1776115417246&source=hp&ei=2V7dadSdDaSB5OMP6vXfIA&biw=360&bih=705&oq=karl+marx+daughter+married+a+cu&gs_lp=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&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Yeah… thinking random Redditors who disagree with you on the internet are paid to do so is totally normal and a completely sane position to hold.

I see now that I was speaking to someone of a much higher brain capacity than I, and I’m shocked that wasn’t clearer to me before.

Go on! Spread your anti-Marxist propaganda far and wide!

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

Damn bro you got me. What it my to do now.🥲 Anyway so how about them nationals league?

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Nationals league?

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

Yeah the one yor mom plays in.

gif

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Damn dude you weren’t just pretending, you’re full blown ain’t ya?

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Salt_Lingonberry1122@reddit

Yeap full blown in your mom.

gif

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

Damn man, only took about 12 comments but you finally a good one

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Street_Customer7466@reddit

you're such a moron hahahaha

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oni_no_onii-chan@reddit

Head of ministry of education in america is a wrestling show boss. Children books read all over the world is controversial there.You can't expect too much.

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SirGaylordSteambath@reddit

See I logically know that, but it still shocks me every time I encounter one in the wild

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tokwamann@reddit

I think he opposed bourgeois capitalism.

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winkman@reddit

Was confidently wrong about everything.

Checks out.

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Twee_Licker@reddit

This post made the commies and socialists really mad.

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0cc1dent@reddit

Supported capitalism, including Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, and Texas against Mexico. Would've loved Meiji Japan.

Supported global free trade

Also supported communism in different conditions

Supported brutal dictatorship

Based his entire ideology around material progress at any cost (even to humanity). So he'd support AI

Recognized the importance of religious sentiment (opium of the masses, sigh of an oppressed creature) but opposed organized religion (pedos and scammers)

Led an uprising against paying taxes

Was employed at multiple newspapers

Investigated the actual working class of Britain despite not getting paid

Believed baristas don't produce value

Hated sexuality theories of gays and whores

Said racial slurs and claimed to have the pass

Just the truth. Marx would be hated by Reddit.

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fauxREALimdying@reddit

Contributes more to academia than almost anyone in the world

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0cc1dent@reddit

Bourgeois academia hates Marx. They have tarnished his name with false associations. Nowadays people think Marx has something to do with gender theory, but he actually hated those deviants

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DarkSoulsRedPhantom@reddit

It's actually a little ambiguous whether Marx OPPOSED religion when he called it the sigh of the oppressed and the opium of the masses. Obviously, the soviets took this to mean that religion was a tool of sedation by the ruling class, but Marx himself frames religion as this almost inevitability in a meaningless world and as a form of protest against real misery. Although Marx calls for religious folk to not allow religion to quell their demand for real happiness, he never expressly calls for the destruction or opposition of religion.

That's the damn thing about philosophy though. Primary philosophical texts are often overly vague, and interpretations of those texts are often coopted by those who stand to gain something.

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0cc1dent@reddit

Stalin actually prayed and worked with the Orthodox Church. Trotskyists and Khrushchev hated religion

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ZorekB@reddit

Be careful OP, all the tankies living in capitalism are going to be really mad.

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0cc1dent@reddit

Im moving to Communist China because life in America is intolerable

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TMWNN@reddit

Ever wonder why Hitler-related posts get upvoted on Reddit so often? If Hitler were alive today his own YouTube channel, with the feed filled with videos of his speeches, would be super-popular. After all, he

was a vegetarian, but the cool kind that liked eating bacon
loved animals, and enacted laws to protect them
had a close association with 420
was an emo sensitive artist
had a tortured, doomed romance with a forbidden love
championed "the 99%" while blaming all of the world's problems on "the 1%" sinister international bankers
hated Jews and gypsies
invested tons of money in STEM subjects like biology and aerospace engineering
was super into paganism/the occult

Conclusion: Reddit = Hitler

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0cc1dent@reddit

Truthnuke. Hitler took female and male sex hormones, meth and other drugs, and loved animals. He was a lot like Clavicular

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softhack@reddit

It's pretty fucking funny the father of their ideology was a freaking NEET.

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0cc1dent@reddit

NEET is when a newspaper writer leads an armed uprising against paying taxes, which is so notorious that he is exiled from his homeland.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Now writers, philosophers, economists, are neets?

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token_internet_girl@reddit

Right thinking people have a long standing distaste against the humanities and see them as pointless. They think any 15 year old can make art/stories/philosophy etc., probably because their own personal growth stopped about that age.

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Yup, that's why they love their AI. It fuels their delusion perfectly.

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Lazzyrus@reddit

Philosophers coming into work just to sit on their asses and think all day

gif

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Realistic-Pain-7126@reddit

On the greentext sub, this post got all the reddit socialists very mad

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myqccountgotsca@reddit

half of the posts on that sub were basically coping lol

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Not mad, it's funny seeing how bad is the anti Marxist rethoric.

On the contrary, a couple of guys blocked me because they couldn't argue about it.

Confirms is mostly kids who don't know what they are talking about, since the premise of this "meme" (propaganda) is just plain false.

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TheMauveHand@reddit

Found the commie

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AlcoreRain@reddit

I'm not though

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CatMan_Sad@reddit

Dude youre clearly mad

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AlcoreRain@reddit

Hehhehh mad as a hatter

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small_brain67@reddit (OP)

Lol I have just seen it. What a coincidence.

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Mr__Castle_@reddit

Put some respect on the man,

He would have been a Reddit Janny.

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bannabananabanna@reddit

he would have worked with Ghislaine

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0cc1dent@reddit

Her whole goal was discrediting marxism and pushing liberalism 🤦‍♂️

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wismilak@reddit

Anti Marxists when they are presented with simplified Marxist ideas: "Ehh I actually agree with some of his points"

For real just read a book instead of learning Marxism through memes and put just a little bit more effort to understand his talking points, you will see that he is not your enemy, unless you are the top 0.1% class who own everything.

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small_brain67@reddit (OP)

😂

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Charming_Mission7695@reddit

The difference is that Marx actually contributed something to society. Whether you agree with him or not he created an ideology that was impacting to the years to come. Redditors have literally never achieved anything, 4channers have done far more than them.

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Top-Bedroom2466@reddit

No need to watch early life

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Adept-Platypus6676@reddit

I know it’s rage/engagement bait , yet why Im I still angry?

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6l4c13m@reddit

the OG

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SpecialistParticular@reddit

Bro didn't want to work so bad that he created an entire philosophy around it. He's like George Costanza.

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iboowhenyoudeserveit@reddit

Socrates was the same. Basically an unkempt couch surfer with crazy ideas, but an outward positivity and belief in the potential of the individual. So people took care of him and thus we continue to live with a philosophy and value system that stem directly from his teachings.

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AOC_Gynecologist@reddit

thus we continue to live with a philosophy and value system that stem directly from his teachings.

So literally the opposite of the "never-been-tried" reddit man.

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TWK128@reddit

Redditor prime.

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philmarcracken@reddit

a fair chunk of khv on 4chin say much the same, even proudly

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Xitztlacayotl@reddit

"Never made real contributions to society"

What, if he were a coal miner he would have made a real contribution?

This just belittles intellectual work as something useless. His works were and still are very influential and worth reading. And without being a cringe rabid commie at that.

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KeK_What@reddit

Seeing as his work inspired the death of countless people? Yes? Fooking dumb question.

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fourthwallcrisis@reddit

> What, if he were a coal miner he would have made a real contribution*?*

Well, yeah.

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small_brain67@reddit (OP)

of course.

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Lazzyrus@reddit

Everyone is forgetting the reason he was jobless was because his handwriting was so shit, nobody wanted to hire him for it. Only one other person understood his writings and when he died, you basically needed a whole team of professionals to understand what he even wrote. It genuinely looks like Arabic.

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