Ex-hostage says he was flooded with hate messages from fellow Israelis after post calling for treating Arabs with respect
Posted by kwentongskyblue@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 200 comments
TommyTwoNips@reddit
idk, kinda feels like maybe captured IDF soldiers shouldn't be referred to as hostages, especially considering his country regularly kidnaps and indefinitely jails Palestinian children. Kind of muddies the water and makes it seem like he was a civilian instead of a participant in the genocide that provoked his capture.
also, "Neither right nor left, but common sense" is a wild take after he's seen the right wing freaks of his country literally storm a military outpost to keep rapists from facing trial (A trial they all knew was going to be for show regardless).
Zeydon@reddit
Start making this clarification though, and then you might have to start recognizing that soldiers killed on bases during the Al Aqsa Flood were valid military targets according to international law. Start doing that and you might have to recognize that Hamas didn't force the IOF to carry out a Mass Hannibal event, and that 100s of Israelis gunned down by Apache helicopters and blown up by tanks died not due to Hamas, but due to Israel going to such extreme lengths to minimize the amount of Palestinians they'd have to release in a hostage exchange they killed countless number of their own citizens. Start doing that and the paper-thin pretense to carry out genocide slips even further away.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Even if you factor in Israelis killed by Hannibal and even IF you accepted Hamas was allowed to kill Israeli soldiers, that still does not make the October 7th attack not evil as they literally masscred many Israeli civilians and kidnapped others
dJunka@reddit
I mean this is standard for US, Israel and the UK though? Look at Yemen, Gaza, and Iran.
Israel still has hundreds being in captivity, and subject to torture. Seems like it’s only normalised against Muslims.
swelboy@reddit
“Your honor, my client, Jeffrey Dahmer, should be found not guilty to the 16 first-degree murder charges levied against him because John Wayne Gacy and the Zodiac killer have also murdered people”
your_red_triangle@reddit
FTFY
swelboy@reddit
But why does being a victim of atrocities entitle you to commit your own atrocities?
swelboy@reddit
Why not oppose both?
TommyTwoNips@reddit
That would argument would hold water if the judge in this metaphor wasn't also a mass murdering pedophile excusing his own crimes and calling himself "the most moral judge in the world."
swelboy@reddit
Not my point, my point was that Israel and America’s atrocities and the current lack of consequences for them do nothing to lessen Hamas’ guilt for their own atrocities.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
well your point is fucking stupid.
You're retroactively justifying Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people because the victims lashed out violently against the country that has been raping and murdering their families for generations.
If there was no illegal occupation, there would be no Nakba, no intifada, no Hamas, and consequently, no October 7th.
swelboy@reddit
Where was I “justifying Israel’s genocide”?
Oh so “an eye for an eye” then? And what happens when that line of thinking just makes a loop game of atrocity ping-pong? The reason why Israel is destroying Gaza is because they think they deserve it for 10/7 and other past atrocities.
Resisting oppression is one thing, but who does shooting up Kibbutzim and music festivals help? I’ll tell you, the likes of Bibi, Smotrich, and Gvir, it gives them the perfect justification for their atrocities; and all though they may never admit it, even to themselves, Hamas benefits greatly in the long run from a hostile Israel.
How else can Hamas justify their rule of Gaza? Who better to staff your ranks than young men and teens orphaned by Israel?
When you say “illegal occupation”, do you mean the Gaza Blockade and the West Bank, or the whole of Israel? Because Israel’s creation can’t be undone at this point, most Israelis are the grandchildren of the original settlers, and a shared secular state is a pipe dream.
I’m not claiming to have all the answers to this war though, but as cowardly and defeatist as this may sound, but I highly doubt there’s any viable “good” or “correct” solution to this conflict at this point.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
again, your point is fucking stupid.
Resistance is imperfect, that doesn't justify a genocide.
Palestinians have a human right to resist their oppressors in any way they can. Israel deserves, and is responsible for, every act of violence that occurs as a result of their ongoing illegal occupation of Palestine.
the viable and correct solution is to arrest Israeli leadership, try them for crimes against humanity, and dissolve the government. Just like they did with the nazis after WWII.
swelboy@reddit
Why do you think I’m justifying genocide?
So are you saying that all the civilians at the Nova music festival, the 36 children who got killed 10/7 had it coming? And no, I’m not ok with Israel killing children either.
These atrocities happen because people, people just like you and me, think other people “deserve” to be punished as a collective for other atrocities (which they often had little or nothing to do with), that it’s alright to rape and murder men, women, and children, as long as it’s ones that “deserve it”. What happens if somebody (like in general, not just this conflict) decide that you and your loved ones are also among those that “deserve it”?
Well I’m all for Bibi and his government going to prison regardless, but that won’t end the conflict as long as the animosity remains and/or the rest of the world is unwilling to foot the bill for a massive UN peacekeeping force or some such.
WW2 wasn’t won by shooting up music festivals and doing that is a little more than just “imperfect”. If that’s what their “resistance” is always going to entail, then that means Hamas’ solution to this conflict will essentially just be to deport or kill all the Jews from Palestine.
your_red_triangle@reddit
exactly! everything starts on OcToBeR 7tH for these people , zero knowledge of the history and crimes that took place for 70 years.
dJunka@reddit
Israel has an internationally recognised legislature with western backing, Hamas is internationally sanctioned and blockaded as a terror group.
The expectations are much different.
hardolaf@reddit
Hamas also defended their torturing of Palestinians in the basement of a hospital in Gaza in 2014 by saying that it wasn't illegal under international law because they only tortured Palestinians there and not Israelis.
dJunka@reddit
Can you link Hamas defending torture on that basis?
Israel is signature to laws organisations that make rape and torture illegal, but do it to prisoners and children anyway. In fact for them it is actually systemised, and defecto sanctioned by their courts.
hardolaf@reddit
I can't find Hamas's response as it looks like it's been mostly blackholed due to anti-terror laws in Europe, but it was in response to claims that became part of this Amnesty International report: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
dJunka@reddit
No it wasn't you just made it up. They gave other apologia for it.
They blamed it on the chaos of war, cast doubts over the credibility the report, and one officals came out and said it was being investigated from what I can see.
Laughably, even this is more accountabability than you see with Israel or the US, where torture is legall sanctioned.
VizzzyT@reddit
Dahmer was an individual. Kent state was a massacre by the government. So that government, who has shown they are willing to massacre their own population, or at least understand that massacres by their security forces occur, has no basis for condemning violence from other states along the same lines.
ADP_God@reddit
Stop trying to destroy Israel, and you won't have anybody killed by Israel.
dJunka@reddit
They were founded by terrorists and supremacists, they were never interested in peace. The country is founded on mass slaughter and colonialism.
ADP_God@reddit
It was founded by a persecuted people trying to self determine in their indigenous homeland. They offered peace, they offered to share. All they want is to be left alone.
dJunka@reddit
No they came with an intention to take the land and engaged in reprehensible violence. They haven’t stoped murdering civilians and stealing land since.
Get lost with your genocide apologia.
ADP_God@reddit
They came with the intention of returning from a diaspora to self determine in rejection of Arab-muslim imperial hegemony that now controls the rest of the Middle East.
The sad thing is what you're arguing for is genocide. You want the Jews gone from their homeland. Back to where they came from? Where they faced actual genocide and ethnic, not the buzzword you've made it out to be.
your_red_triangle@reddit
the sad thing is you're trying to defend a on going genocide right now, vs your bullshit hypothetical genocide.
Jews homeland is where they're based, ask British Jews where their homeland is, and they'll tell you it's in Britain. This notion that all Jews are a monolith and only belong in the terrorist state of Israel is anti-semitic.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
nice blood and soil argument for the ethno-state.
ADP_God@reddit
Explain to me how the Palestine nationalist movement isn't blood and soil? And, of course, you can convert to Judaism and recieve a passport. Your libel is tired. Using Nazi terminology to condemn the Jews is old antisemitism, at least try to innovate.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
"The Jews" aren't committing a genocide, Israelis are, and they're blaming it on Jewish people worldwide.
because they, like you, are pig-shit nazis.
dJunka@reddit
You are trying to justify ethnic cleansing with this reasoning. Disgusting.
Ahh can it with the victimhood, we’re saying they can’t bomb kids, they can’t rape prisoners. They can’t massacre paramedics and journalists.
ADP_God@reddit
The libel is tired. Don't start wars you don't want to lose.
dJunka@reddit
Oh the libel is tired is it? Is that why everyone is turning against Israel now that we can see them for what they are? When they rape prisoners and murder aid workers?
No, let's be clear. You in this conversation used ideas of homeland, and "Arab hegenomy" to justify ethnic cleansing. You are by definition a supremacist. You tried to justify and whitewash ethnic cleansing and mass displacement.
BroMan001@reddit
Why would they accept to share the land with the colonisers?
Ropetrick6@reddit
Source?
BroMan001@reddit
“CONFERENCE OF ZIONISTS
—— Elect Delegates at Their Meeting in Baltimore.
—— WILL COLONIZE PALESTINE“ June 20, 1899 (NY Times)
Literal quote. They’ve made their intentions clear since the beginning, Hitler was 10 at this point.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Tell that to all of the innocent civilians they murdered.
ADP_God@reddit
Don't start wars with Israel and you won't lose them.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Hind Rajab didn't start a wat. That didn't stop your heroes from shooting her several hundred times.
your_red_triangle@reddit
lmao thanks for the laugh. you people are truly delusional
TheIrishBread@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
Yes very persecuted, definitely not violent settler colonists who even bit the hand of their master (The UK).
ADP_God@reddit
From the link you posted:
'Leaders within the mainstream Jewish organizations, the Jewish Agency, Haganah and Histadrut, as well as the British authorities, routinely condemned Irgun operations as terrorism and branded it an illegal organization as a result of the group's attacks on civilian targets.'
An extremist and regularly condemned offshoot of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah
'Formed out of previous existing militias, the Haganah's original purpose was to defend Jewish settlements against Arab attacks; this was the case during the 1921 Jaffa riots, the 1929 Palestine riots, the 1936 Jaffa riots, and the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine, among others.'
Always comes back to stop attacking Jews and you won't have to worry about losing to them.
Call me when you see Arabs condemning terror attacks on Jews.
TheIrishBread@reddit
Completely skipping by the fact they despite being an illegal terrorist organization of settler colonists were eventually folded into the IDF. You really aren't helping your argument.
ADP_God@reddit
You should google the origins of the PA.
TheIrishBread@reddit
Going from terrorist to politician is a lot fucking different than going from colonial terrorist to militant arm of the apartheid colony you helped establish.
ADP_God@reddit
You're so deep in your own narrative you can't see how ridiculous you sound. A two state solution worked in Ireland, it could work in Israel if the hegemonic power would allow it, like Britain did.
TheIrishBread@reddit
NI barely works and that's because the majority since 98 (nationalists and moderate unionists/non aligned) have to keep dragging the majority of unionism and the entirety of Loyalism through to make it work. Stormont would have the record for longest collapse of a government if it weren't for the fact that Westminster could assume direct rule.
Partition notably didn't fucking work in NI and lead to an apartheid state built on sectarianism which was only properly resolved in 98 with the GFA and the clowns in unionism still to this day are trying to go back to that.
And that's before I get to how Israel doesn't want the two state solution either which is why they have sabotaged every fucking talk about it since at least Camp David.
Don't fucking quote my Islands history at me if you don't fucking understand the realities of life post partition or even in the post GFA world.
ADP_God@reddit
Funny how you’re simultaneously comfortable lecturing others while telling them not to lecture you. You should try and get some new perspective, it’s clear you need it.
TheIrishBread@reddit
Hmmm yes I should let some cunt on the internet incorrectly lecture me that the partition of Ireland was a good thing that solved the issues Ireland faced at the time. I didn't even touch on the resulting civil war and later trade war that rocked the republic. I grew up through the tailend of the troubles in NI, I'm directly affected by the shit this cunt is trying to spin as a good thing so how bout you both fuckin wheesht before embarrassing yourselves further.
FeijoadaAceitavel@reddit
The Haganah supported Irgun and Lehi in the Deir Yassin massacre. Zionists love rewriting history to put all the blame on Irgun and Lehi and to absolve Haganah so they can be paraded around as the true, blameless founders of Israel, but that's just propaganda. They supported each other and only started having conflicts when Haganah declared itself the true army of Israel and the others were either absorbed or dismantled.
FeijoadaAceitavel@reddit
"Offered to share"? They mass migrated to a region with the openly stated objective to colonize the region and replace the native population so they could have an ethnostate.
Would you be happy if I "offered to share" half of your house after beating you up?
GothicGolem29@reddit
? He Uk has not fought a war against any of those countries nor has the US.... Israel has done some awful things though but that hardly makes what Hamas did any less evil
dJunka@reddit
UK was heavily involved with Yemen actually, we sold the planes and bombs, we deployed specialist officers and advisors to direct the Saudi strikes. Some strikes made with our own planes and pilots too. Interesting that flew under the radar for some? Been going on 10 years now.
The result is one of worst humanitarian disasters in history, we targetted their infrastructure, leaving a lot population centres without food, water, power or fuel. Millions are starving.
For both Gaza and Iran, UK allowed Israel and US to conduct bombing strikes against civilians using our facilities and airbases. We lied about refueling Israeli planes, they absolutely do refuel at RAF Brize Norton carrying all their US tax paid loot from US Dover air force base.
My point is though, if we're looking for evil in the world, we need to look ourselves and allies first.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Selling bombs and weapons does not = being at war with Yemen which is what you implied above. And I have seen no evidence of our bombs and planes being used for actual strikes and also theres been a ceasefire for a while now so its not been going on for ten years as theres large periods of pauses especially given the frontlines of the Houthis and the Yemen government have been frozen.
We didnt target their infrastructure no selling bombs and plans is not the same as us planning the attack on infratructure no matter how bad it is.
This is factually false we did not allow the US to launch strikes on civs from our base our bases are solely being used for defensive strikes on missile launchers to prevent Iran attacking our partners in the region. And I have seen no evidence Israel was given permission to use our bases for strikes on Gaza.
And why? Why should we ignore the evils of Hamas to look at what the west have done? That seems conterproductive to me
dJunka@reddit
No we are not only supplying them weapons, but also Typhoon and Tornado fight jets/multi-role fighters to be precise. We deployed British military personal to direct the deployment and targetting of this hardware. So very close involvement.
No evidence? It's not really in though, David Cameron was boasting about all the planes he sold to them. Who is credibly claiming we weren't in Yemen?
We, along with the Saudis definitely did target their infrastructure, denying it isn't an argument. You can't hide one of worst humanitarian disasters in history...
Because we aren't funding or propping them up like Israel.
Because Hamas doesn't have an internationally recognised legislature, or signed up to international organisation like the UN which prohibits Israel's crimes. Because Israel has killed, kidnapped, and abused many magnitudes more people than any Palestinian group has.
whater39@reddit
Historically bad things happen to occupiers. Why should Israel be exempt from bad things happening to them?
dasunt@reddit
I'm fine with calling attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure evil.
I'm not fine with the double standard. If we condemn Hamas for targeting civilians, then we should condemn the IDF for targeting civilians. If we condemn Hamas for trying to drive out a people and ethnically cleanse an area, then we should condemn the Israeli government for the same.
If one side's called terrorists for those actions, then the other side should be called terrorists for similar actions.
VizzzyT@reddit
From the point of view of Gazans every Israeli is a settler complicit in their oppression. The Israelis living in the Gaza envelope are in many cases living on the ruins of villages of people expelled into Gaza, ruins the Gazans can still see. Now imagine breaking out of the prison and discovering the people that massacred your family for generations are hosting a fucking rave outside the walls.
GothicGolem29@reddit
That may be their view but it does not make the attack right whatsoever. I am sure many here would dislike some of the views Israelis have about Palestinains and would certainly not say its justifies murdering them so the same goes goes this view. You know Its not really a breakout of prison when they were planing an attack and planned to kidnap and kill civs and planned to go back to Gaza. But even if it was, I can guarantee you I would not start masscering the people partying because I am not evil and killing civilians is a vile thing to do regardless of your anger
2dudesinapod@reddit
The unfortunate truth is that the only way the Palestinians can get their people out of the torture camps is through prisoner exchange.
It’s also why they took women and civilian captives, because the exchanges are like for like and Hamas was committed to emptying the Israeli prisons of Palestinian women which they did manage to do temporarily.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Hamas doing this attack has caused over 70k Palestinains to die and many more captured by Israel. This has on no way benefit Palestinians its only caused more death and torture the only thing it has done is allowed Hamas to get fellow terrorists out of prison while they use Gazans as shields to protect themsleves.
Temporarily is the key word here and I dont think Hamas was committed whatsoever to that when they knew more women would be captured because of the attack and when more women would be killed in the war they caused
bathtubsplashes@reddit
I think something like 20 under 18s were killed on Oct 7th, total. Who knows if all were by Hamas too
The US killed ~150 under 18s with a single bomb at the start of this conflict
Anxious_Katz@reddit
Let's continue. Why did they allowed a music festival to happen a few km away from an open air concentration camp? What is the Gaza envelope? Why does Israel control electricy, water, import of goods, literally anything that goes into or out of the strip. From there we can continue some more but I think people get the point.
whater39@reddit
Let's not forget restrictions on exports. For example food exports not destined tor Israel were often left to rot at inspection check points. It was economic warfare by Israel
vplatt@reddit
Frankly, I assume they allowed that for the same reason the state of Texas allowed a girl's summer campgrounds to be place in a flash-flood zone: cost.
2dudesinapod@reddit
They actually moved the festival to that location at the last minute and also extended it.
Let’s not get into the fact that many festival goers report being trapped inside the festival grounds by police cars.
Cuddlyaxe@reddit
You do know that not only IDF soldiers were targeted during Oct 7th right? Because your comment is acting like only the military was targetes
Of 1195 people killed, around 828 were civilians.
ScientificSkepticism@reddit
Wait until you point out that a 65% civilian casualty rate is better than the IDF.
Cuddlyaxe@reddit
I don't get what your point is. Did I anywhere in my post say Israeli actions in Gaza are justified or good?
It should not be that hard to say "civilians being killed in war is bad actually" without desperately trying to justify it for your side only
This sub seems to be eager to justify October 7th, considering people are literally downvoting me for saying that the majority of victims were civilians, which is a fact. On the other side, subs like worldnews are eager to justify Israeli atrocities in Gaza because of October 7th
Both are fucking dire positions to take. It's pretty easy, just don't justify killings of civilians
TommyTwoNips@reddit
people aren't "eager to defend October 7th".
People are tired of Israel trotting out October 7th as if it were this horrific, random act of violence that justifies their ongoing genocide instead of what it is: an entirely predictable outcome of generational settler violence.
Israel is wholly responsible for every death related to October 7th. If they weren't illegally occupying Palestine, there would be no intifada, there would be Hamas, there would be no October 7th.
Cuddlyaxe@reddit
Did you read the guy I was responding to? His comment was pretty much justifying October 7th. He called it Al Aqsa Flood and implied the only people killed were IDF soldiers
You are just making a generic argument about "yeah people are tired this is what people actually mean" when the comment i was responding to was very obviously defending or glorifying it
I swear people have stopped caring about context, they will just trot out the same arguments regardless. I've seen people make the "it's anti zionism not antisemitism, not everything against Israel is antisemitism" argument to defend things which were explicitly and obviously antisemitic because they have just become used to doing so on reflex
TommyTwoNips@reddit
Says the person defending Israel's ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people, completely unironically.
Israel is responsible for October 7th. They created the conditions that allowed it to happen, and they use it as a justification for the generational violence they've been committing against Palestinians.
Cuddlyaxe@reddit
Literally where did I defend Israel's actions in Palestine lmao. My whole thing in this conversation has been to say killing civilians is always wrong
If I need to say it explicitly here it is: what Israel is doing in Gaza is wrong and it is genocide genocide. What Israeli settlers are doing in the West Bank is also wrong.
I firmly believe killing civilians is wrong no matter who does it. Now can you do the same and condemn Hamas for killing civilians on October 7th? You are free to even say you can understand why they did it or that it is ultimately Israel's fault, but are you able to say Hamas killing civilians is bad actually?
It is kind of telling that the only way you are able to argue with me is by pretending I am some sort of Zionist so you could use whataboutisms on me. After all the other user you are defending was literally participating in the glorification and denialism about Oct 7th by pretending all its victims were military men
TommyTwoNips@reddit
Would you characterize the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising as an act of terrorism because some Germans who weren't nazis got killed?
because that's what you're doing with the Palestinians.
your_red_triangle@reddit
you clearly don't have any mirrors in your glass house.
Cuddlyaxe@reddit
I don't get what your point is. Did I anywhere in my post say Israeli actions in Gaza are justified or good?
It should not be that hard to say "civilians being killed in war is bad actually" without desperately trying to justify it for your side only
This sub seems to be eager to justify October 7th, considering people are literally downvoting me for saying that the majority of victims were civilians, which is a fact. On the other side, subs like worldnews are eager to justify Israeli atrocities in Gaza because of October 7th
Both are fucking dire positions to take. It's pretty easy, just don't justify killings of civilians
your_red_triangle@reddit
out of the 828 civilians killed, how many were murdered by the terrorist IDF? Khamas didn't have Apache helicopters or tanks.
Useful-World1781@reddit
I get what you’re saying but let’s not do this. Anyone who is standing up for what is right especially somewhere like Israel shouldn’t be shamed.
Yes he was in the IDF and participated in the occupation, he was taken, and now is promoting peace, after being kidnapped. Israelis are brainwashed to believe all Palestinians are the enemy, this guy spent time with them and is choosing kindness. Thats an amazing thing and that’s what we should focus on.
Nothing will change if we attack people for doing the right thing because it took them a while to get there.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
he's not standing up for what is right.
He's bothsides-ing a genocide that he participated in.
If he was standing up for what is right, he'd be openly calling the actions of his country a genocide and working to end the illegal occupation of Palestine, not complaining about how 'the left and the right are both wrong' when 'the left' position is literally just "Stop doing a genocide."
tell me, what is the Center position between "murder all the Palestinians because they're subhuman" and "Don't murder the Palestinians because they're human beings"?
Useful-World1781@reddit
I don’t think you’re seeing the bigger picture. Obviously just viewing them as humans isn’t ideal but it’s the reality. The overwhelming majority of Israelis don’t view them as human. So him saying something as simple as we should be kind to them puts a target on his back in Israel. It sucks but you have to be realistic.
And like it or not, this coming from someone who was actually taken makes his voice stronger than anyone. Drastic change doesn’t happen overnight. And it won’t happen at all if you attack people who are pushing for change even slightly.
Look at America, most of our politicians are still too afraid to push back. We’re not stopping Israel, we’re giving them everything they need to carry out a genocide. Just by living in the US and paying taxes, you’re also complicit.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
yeah sure, everyone in the west lives with blood on their hands. That's the unfortunate reality of living in settler colonial nations.
This guy wasn't just living in Israel though, he was actively taking part in military operations in furtherance of a genocide, which he is not condemning. he's condemning how poorly Israelis treat other Israelis.
He literally just a nazi that's mad that the nazis who are more racist than he is are sending him death threats for not being racist enough.
type_E@reddit
hmmmm what about their blood
HockeyHocki@reddit
How did this guy participate in a genocide?
Ropetrick6@reddit
How did Wehrmacht soldiers participate in a genocide? Same answer.
HockeyHocki@reddit
If a german soldier was not on active duty at any stage during the genocide then no, obviously they were not a participant in it
Ropetrick6@reddit
And as we all know, the IDF has done absolutey nothing to Palestinians at any point prior to October 7th, 2023. Absolutely NOTHING. They have never once killed a single Palestinian before that point. They have absolutely never supporters the illegal settlers before that point. They have absolutely never once engaged in any attack or occupation before that point. They have absolutely never, even once, engaged in a blockade before that point. They have absolutely never, even once, taken Palestinian hostages as "Administrative Detainees" before that point. They have absolutely never, even once, displaced Palestinians before that point. They have absolutely never, even once, raped Palestinians before that point. They have absolutely never, even once, fired a single time at Palestinians or Palestinian lands before that point.
Oh wait a minute, they did ALL of that BEFORE October 7th, quite consistently actually!
HockeyHocki@reddit
So you're making the same arguement the other enlightened commenter made, its always been a genocide, why do i even bother
Ropetrick6@reddit
Maybe try NOT breaking sub rules in your comments.
HockeyHocki@reddit
I didnt break any rules lmao, thats some automod bs
Ropetrick6@reddit
Once again, you tooooooootally didn't break sub rules, just like how the IDF tooooooooootally didn't shoot Hind Rajab.
HockeyHocki@reddit
Like I said, some automod BS
https://imgur.com/a/ZGfWvtJ
Ropetrick6@reddit
Sure you didn't, just like how the IDF said it didn't shoot Hind Rajab.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Because you're a genocide shill waving a false flag in order to support your genocidal ethnostate. That's not exactly a secret, particularly around these parts.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
Hey look, it's the "Irish" nazi defender.
I'll go slow, since you're apparently illiterate.
>IDF has been committing a genocide for the past 70+ years.
>He joined the IDF.
>He was in the IDF during that 70+ year period.
HockeyHocki@reddit
You guys never learn, histrionics don't help the Palestinans cause, they actively harm it
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Only murder half of them…
IOnlyFearOFGod@reddit
At least he is taking a good step in the right direction no? Respecting and treating Palestinians with dignity is something that the IDF lacks. One step at the time. And one day they will acknowledge their wrongs- or bury it with distractions and curate their image like Japan did (not comparing israelis to Japan's actions but pointing out how Japan neglected to own their actions and crimes against humanity).
I-Here-555@reddit
I'm no fan of Israel, but it's worth keeping in mind they have conscription. Unlike in the US, military service is not voluntary. If you refuse, the consequences are significant (up to 3 years jail time).
your_red_triangle@reddit
you're wrong on that part, it's basically 30 days in youth hostel. There's video vlogs of Israelis that have refused conscription. You can also refuse on religious grounds, see how orthodox Jews don't join.
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
I agree. What he’s doing is trying to create positive change, and if anything his background makes him credible to those who would never believe a Palestinian.
teslawhaleshark@reddit
It’s the Israel-Palestine discourse, nobody, at least nobody online treats anyone on the opposing side as a noncombatant
FudgeAtron@reddit
He wasn't soldier when he was captured. He was working security at the Nova Festival. So was by all definitions a civilian, not a soldier.
Anxious_Katz@reddit
Your IDF soldier entered a hospital in the west bank dressed as medical personnel (war crime) to kill some patients they claimed were Hamas combatants (wounded soldiers get protected status therefore another war crime).
This distinction between off/on duty soldier you're making here holds zero water for your own central command. Why should we care?
Popolitique@reddit
Hamas combatants aren't soldiers though, that's why you call them combatants and not Palestinian soldiers.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
yes, yes, everything Israel does is in self defense, including bombing funerals and sneaking into hospitals to murder unconscious people.
All those Palestinian kids were just future terrorists, that's why they had to blow up those kindergartens!
Popolitique@reddit
Your country killed more than 50.000 French civilians in 6 months in 1944, including 3.000 in a single day in a single city. You bombed schools, hospital, cemeteries and France was your ally. Is there anything that justifies killing that many civilians?
your_red_triangle@reddit
shit whataboutism, stop trying to deflect from the on going genocide that you support
Ropetrick6@reddit
Deflection, the only defense of the guilty.
Popolitique@reddit
I agree, he didn't adress the fact that Hamas aren't soldiers at all.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Oh look, you're not here in good faith. Amazing how common that is with ISISrael supporters...
TommyTwoNips@reddit
lol
1944?
idk if an 80+ year old liberatory war against the nazis is the best analogue for the current war of aggression and conquest that Israel is fighting, though if you were being honest with your analogy, Israel would be the nazis occupying France, not the US bombing them.
but yes, I distinctly remember hearing everyone down at the soda counter (IDK, whatever the fuck they were doing in 1944) talking about how they needed to exterminate the French people to secure the land for the REAL NATIVES: Eastern European pedophiles escaping prosecution.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
well, not according to Israel.
According to Israel, even sanitation workers and paramedics are legitimate targets.
This guy participated in the genocide, and now he's back home, trying to bothsides his country's irredeemable bloodlust.
GothicGolem29@reddit
This guy absoloutely did not participate in a genocide as theres even less of a case for one before Ocotber 7th when he was kidnapped as even most acholars and human rights groups were not calling it a genocide before October 7th
TommyTwoNips@reddit
Israel has been committing a genocide for the past 80 years.
You are a disingenuous liar defending an ethno-state.
GothicGolem29@reddit
No they haven't as I said above even most of the scholars and human rights groups did not call it one before this war and the intent requirement for genocide would have been even harder to prove.
I am not lying lol I beleive everything I said above. And what meaning are you using for ethnostate? Because if you are using the meaning of Israel just wanting to keep its majority ethnicity the majority that is quite common throughout the world
TommyTwoNips@reddit
yeah, intent is so hard to prove when Israeli news trots the Sde Teiman rapists around on TV like they're heroes.
It's so hard to prove that Israel intends to murder Palestinians when their ministers go on TV and extoll the virtues of terrorists that murder people in Mosques and openly talk about their intent to exterminate Palestinians, whom they regularly refer to as subhuman.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Israeli news putting rapists on tv does not prove genocidal intent from the gov and army against a people.... all it really does is show that news station is awful.
Genocide isn't just murder it has to be doing actions like murder with INTENT to destroy a people in whole or in part. Besides far right loons evidence is a lot scarcer of extermination quotes before the war or any other such quotes that would prove intent which is probably why scholars weren't saying it was a genocide then
TommyTwoNips@reddit
There's literally an entire Wikipedia entry about this specifically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intent_and_incitement_in_the_Gaza_genocide
Go read the primary sources, since I already know you're the type of worm to try the "wikipedia isn't a source" argument. Israel is a terrorist state, and people like are disgusting collaborators that deserve to be jailed for life for defending a genocide.
GothicGolem29@reddit
???? This wiki article is literally mainly about after October 7th it mentions some claims about the Nakba but most of its genocidal mentions after that attack not before.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
omfg...
READ. THE PRIMARY. SOURCES.
Was Ben-Gvir reacting to October 7th every time he has praised Baruch Goldstein as his hero since the 90s?
Again, you are a lying nazi that belongs in a cage alongside every other freak that justifies Israel's crimes against humanity.
GothicGolem29@reddit
You provided the wiki article as a source so I am responding to that as it does not prove your argument whatsoever. I am not going to read through the hundreds of citations in that article looking for your claim if you have another source please provide it.
You think one minister Ben Gvir praising that guy is enough to prove genocidal intent for the past 80 years???
I am neither a Nazi nor lying and resorting to insults and threats of imprisonment only hurt your argument. And I am not justfying any crimes btw
IdiAmini@reddit
He participated in the subjugation, ethnic cleansing and withholding of human rights to one particular group. Guess that makes him a saint according to you?
And Israel absolutely is an ethnostate
GothicGolem29@reddit
I mean not necessarily? Idf soldiers can serve and not ethnically cleans anyone or even do those other two things.
As I said though if being an ethnostate just means you keep your majority ethnicity the majority many countries also do that
IdiAmini@reddit
Bullshit. Every soldier in one way or another contributes to an organisation setup to subjugate, ethnically cleans and refuse basic human rights to one particular group
No, you become an ethnostate when you have a law declaring that only one group of people will have the basic human right of self determination within your state
GothicGolem29@reddit
Soldiers don't suddenly participate in a crime just for being conscripted.... They have to actually do the crime so they have to actually be participating in the ethnic cleansing an idf soldier manning an israeli outpost is not doing anything wrong.
I don't agree with that definition of ethnostate tbh and practically it does not change much as if the law instead said all Israelis have the right of self determination then because Jews are a majority if they all supported Israels existance that would be enough for self determination to keep Israel wxisting
FudgeAtron@reddit
See I want to deal with this in good faith but you so obviously aren't dealing in good faith. You don't believe those rules but you want to apply them because it will make your argument easier.
By being held hostage in Gaza for the duration of the war? Are you suggesting that being held hostage is a form of committing genocide?
Victim of an ethnic conflict tries to reduce tension: /u/TommyTwoNips 😡🤬😡
Seriously should you not be praising this man? Is an ex-soldier speaking against ethnic hatred not a good thing in your view? What more do you want?
Or is he simply irredeemably evil because he's Israeli?
TommyTwoNips@reddit
"Victim of an ethnic conflict" is a wild way to describe a soldier that participated in an ongoing genocide.
PerforatedPie@reddit
/Victim tries to be centrist and call for humanity against those who harmed him.
/u/TommyTwoNips: No, that's not extreme enough!!
TommyTwoNips@reddit
centrism is a lie told by people like you to excuse inaction.
There is no 'center position' between genocide and no genocide.
Also, this guy wasn't a victim, he was a soldier that participated in a genocide and was capture by the people his country has been actively working to exterminate.
PerforatedPie@reddit
He was captured as a civilian at a civilian event for peace.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
"GUYS! We set up our music festival on the border of our open air concentration camp, invite all the guys that participated in the genocide, we're doing it for peace!"
You can spin it all you like, guy was a legitimate target according to the rules set by Israel.
Remember when your bullshit state media had that hag on crying about her piece of shit kid that was 'kidnapped' alongside his genocidaire buddies from the inside of a fucking tank?
PerforatedPie@reddit
Israel didn't set up the music festival. People did.
We're not talking about "the rules set by Israel", you are, in a pathetic disingenuous excuse for an argument.
"My bullshit state media" lmao I'm not Israeli, Jewish, or anything you wish to scarecrow me as. Grow the fuck up and get out of the basement already.
brydeswhale@reddit
So, how much do you get paid per Reddit post, then?
I always figured Reddit was mid range, Twitter was top dollar, and Tumblr was, like, two cents.
PerforatedPie@reddit
You guys are getting paid?
dJunka@reddit
That was always bizarre to me, why would anyone have a music festival 1 mile away from the Gaza wall?
cesaroncalves@reddit
Even though I mostly agree with your position, I'll just note that the narrative that the event was meant to "promote peace", was a talking point made up after the attack to manufacture consent.
There is no evidence that the Nova festival was ever made to promote peace, none of the fliers or publications talked about it. It could even be seen as a provocation to the Palestinians that were demonstrating close to the border since 2019.
PerforatedPie@reddit
Good to know. It does seem like real information is very hard to come by, for example I can't really find anything about Rom's life before the music festival, in particularly his history and role in the IDF.
cesaroncalves@reddit
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgkz0yzde80o
He also claimed to have been tortured and raped by the PIJ (not Hamas).
Dogulol@reddit
as long as they are actively part of the idf and not a reservist/inactive part, they are a lawful target. The international law doesnt distinguish between people in the military who are actively taking part in hostilities or not. As long as they are actively part of the organisation they are considered lawful military targets and can be takeb as POWs despite them possibly being in a civillian role or in their time off etc
PerforatedPie@reddit
I mean I don't disagree with any of that, but at the very least it's completely counter-productive to attack and discredit someone from the other side reaching across the aisle in pursuit of peace.
Dogulol@reddit
i dont think its about discrediting him but rather the overall narrative about hostages
PerforatedPie@reddit
I mean I still find it pretty disgusting, dismissing death of people trying to promote peace, and engaging in dehumanising rhetoric in general.
Dogulol@reddit
liberal zionists view peace the same way american liberals view peace, as in something vague to yap about which demonstrates their clear moral supremacy until the drones and 1 ton bombs they ordered arrive. No idf soldier genuinely cares about any of this, the material contradictions are not reconcilable
barc0debaby@reddit
Per IDF standards he was not a civilian.
PerforatedPie@reddit
Per IDF standards no one is lol
Pvt_Lee_Fapping@reddit
Right? "Oh that little kid has two arms, two legs, and they can stand up? Looks like OpFor to me."
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
there is always a valid centrist position
dJunka@reddit
Well it’s the it’s press choosing to call him a hostage. Do you think that’s appropriate for occupation soldiers?
PerforatedPie@reddit
He was a hostage though, by definition.
Illiander@reddit
The correct term is PoW. Prisoner-of-war.
Unless Israel want to claim that they're not at war with Hamas, in which case their justifications for genocide melt away.
dJunka@reddit
They are occupation solder in a criminal army. To group them with civilians is an omission.
PerforatedPie@reddit
Whether they are a hostage or not depends on whether they are a non-combatant. Off duty military are not inherently non-combatants - but similarly they are not inherently combatants.
I can't actually find all this information about him you seem so certain about. All I've found is he was a trained medic and working as security for the festival. The man is 22 years old, yet you act like he's a lifelong veteran for the IDF.
Where does your hatred for this man stem from?
dJunka@reddit
Press wouldn’t refer to a captured Al-Qaeda or ISIS fighter as a hostage if they were captured off duty.
I don’t hate them, but they were an occupation soldier in the IDF at the time they were captured.
Rom Braslavski was on leave from his service as a soldier in the Israeli military and was working as a security guard at the Nova music festival
PerforatedPie@reddit
Thanks for the link, I could find very little info about him. Do we know what his role was in the military?
Skin_Ankle684@reddit
The term for captured active soldiers is "prisoners of war". Although nobody does "war" anymore, just "special military operations" or "kinectic action".
GothicGolem29@reddit
This guy wasn't a israeli soldier on duty though when he was kidnapped he was attending a music festival so absolutely should be called a hostage regardless of if youd call the soldiers kidnapped from bases hostages
IOnlyFearOFGod@reddit
many fellow pro palestine here are too extreme, throwing a shade at this guy for not acknowledging the genocide that his country did. You seem to have forgotten that hamas took this guy hostage (yes a hostage because he is not on duty soldiers), kidnapping him along others to be used as chips and security guarantee.
Despite this, he did not become more hateful, instead he became more understanding and this should be praised.
MissingBothCufflinks@reddit
Yeah basically there are horrible extremist psychos on both sides and in these comments.
azure_beauty@reddit
I haven't seen a single comment here hateful towards Arabs.
IOnlyFearOFGod@reddit
Not here, MissingBothCufflinks means generally. And it is true certainly. I mean, hell, Israel has openly racist minister (towards arabs).
MissingBothCufflinks@reddit
Well yeah, this is exactly a safe space for ethnic cleansing.
FeijoadaAceitavel@reddit
He's a settler in East Jerusalem. Fuck him.
turbohuk@reddit
can we stop calling them settlers please? that implies getting settled in an unoccupied space of land, rather than murdering locals and stealing their property.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Colonial invader is an apt term.
Level_Hour6480@reddit
People who previously did bad things are allowed to learn/change/grow. If not, the alternatives are mass gulags or mass-killings.
BabylonianWeeb@reddit
B-but liberal zionists told me that Arabs in Israel are treated well and even better than in Arab countries.....
It's sick racist and genocidal society, build on stealing Palestinian lands, ethnjc cleansing, apartheid and genocide, Fuck "Israel"
GothicGolem29@reddit
He was kindapped from a music festival so yes hes a hostage
IdiAmini@reddit
No, he was a POW. He was an active soldier and it is Israel itself that claims Oct. the 7th was an act of war
GothicGolem29@reddit
You cant be a POW when you are kidnapped from a musical festival you are attending...
IdiAmini@reddit
Yes you can. There is a reason he was called an active soldier on leave, not reservist or retired. Active soldier.
The status of an active soldier as a combatant is not suspended during authorized leave, resting periods, or while in transit
TommyTwoNips@reddit
and you don't get to be a civilian just because you took a break from genocide to attend a music festival.
GothicGolem29@reddit
You do get to be a civ if you are not in uniform and at a civilian event (and as I said elswhere theres even less of a case for it being genocide before october 7th as most scholars and human rights orgs didnt even call it one then.)
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
According to you, you don’t get to be a civilian if you are a member of Hamas or Hezbollah and doing anything other than fighting like taking pictures for a newspaper or taking your daughter to school. So why does he? Why the double standard?
(This isn’t to say any of the hundreds of journalists murdered by Israel actually were Hamas or Hezbollah members. They had to photoshop them into Hezbollah uniforms, FFS!)
Ropetrick6@reddit
Odd how you refuse to hold Israel to the standard you're using.
TommyTwoNips@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intent_and_incitement_in_the_Gaza_genocide
I'm going to keep posting this, since you're so dedicated to lying about provable facts.
You are a liar and an ethno-supremacist, and you belong in a cage until you either reform or expire.
TheJewPear@reddit
No he’s not, he was kidnapped from the Nova festival on October 7th, not being on duty that day.
cesaroncalves@reddit
We either use the IDF standard for everyone or the UN standard for everyone.
Pick one. By IDF standard, he is a valid target, by the UN, he was not a valid target at that moment.
TheJewPear@reddit
I am for using the UN standard and applying it to everyone. However, many people in this sub seem to think all Israelis are a valid target, they’ll cry havoc every time a civilian dies to an Israeli or American attack, yet be totally fine with Iran and Hezbollah targeting civilians day in day out.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
The problem is that the IDF/Israeli government uses a completely different standard and you don’t seem to object to them using it.
TheMaskedTom@reddit
Are you saying BabylonianWeeb is using the IDF standard?
cesaroncalves@reddit
Yes, he was doing security at the festival, by IDF standards that's a valid target.
Even if he was there as an attendant, by IDF standards that's a valid target.
DanDan1993@reddit
Doing security for a festival not affiliated with the government, any politics or even the local municipal.. it's a private event dude. Either you back claims that IDF treats ANY Palestinian security (how about you also answer about Palestinian security in WB?) as valid target even without it being affiliated to hamas, or just admit you're moving posts to fit your narrative
TommyTwoNips@reddit
your genocidal nation targets children and waits for journalists to get home before murdering them alongside their families.
You have no moral or legal grounds to condemn anything the Palestinians do while your ghoul ministers openly debate whether soldiers should be able to rape Palestinians and whether they are allowed to execute the Palestinian kids the IDF has kidnapped.
KaiBahamut@reddit
He was on leave as an active soldier, not retired or reservist.
Rollen73@reddit
In general i don’t think we should use the IDF standard for anything lol. That’s like using the Russian standard or American standard when talking about if warmongering is justified.
Shane-8300@reddit
Source?
FudgeAtron@reddit
[here](https://www.npr.org/2025/10/12/nx-s1-5572493/hostages-israel-gaza-hamas#:~:text=Rom%20Braslavski%20(21,hostages%27%20family%27s%20movement.)
Shane-8300@reddit
No evidence there
FudgeAtron@reddit
אתה לא באמת ישראלי אז אולי תשתוק.
That's in the link. Did you even open the link?
MissingBothCufflinks@reddit
You are the embodiment of the exact attitude he is criticising. There can be no peace or healing or even dignity with views like yours
TommyTwoNips@reddit
views like "Stop committing genocide"?
sorry that's a deal breaker for the Israeli people.
MissingBothCufflinks@reddit
What should be done about the whole nation?
TommyTwoNips@reddit
Israel needs to be dissolved an reformed as a secular state with equal rights for all citizens, not this bullshit apartheid system where European immigrants get a free pass to shoot indigenous farmers over a land dispute because their holy book said so.
FeijoadaAceitavel@reddit
He's also a settler in East Jerusalem. Fuck him.
Keoni9@reddit
There's a reason an Arab citizen of Israel was granted asylum by the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jan/14/palestinian-citizen-israel-wins-uk-asylum-fear-persecution
IlluminatedPickle@reddit
This doesn't surprise me at all. After Yocheved Lifshitz was released (the 85 year old refugee who after taking a few steps away from the Hamas guy who was part of the handover, turned back to him and shook his hand) also copped a lot of hate afterwards. People even tried to claim she had been brainwashed by Hamas and was an operative.
teslawhaleshark@reddit
Yeah some say the kidnapped villagers are willing crisis actors
heckin_miraculous@reddit
Crisis actors is the weirdest idea to me.
There's enough real crisis in the world for people to be reacting to.
Why would they have to make one up?
wet_suit_one@reddit
Ah humans...
Never change.
We're never getting out the problems we have because we are what we are everywhere you go and we can't get away from ourselves.
Such is our lot.
ZuluIsNumberOne@reddit
to be clear it was bibi supporters not the Israeli general public.