Legalize euthanasia for people who seek it and fund it with organs harvesting.
Posted by OkDrag3967@reddit | CrazyIdeas | View on Reddit | 116 comments
People seeking death are allowed to die peacefully under anesthesia while organs are removed to fund the process. This program reduces suicides which often traumatize people who find the dead while giving people who want to live more access to organ transplants.
sylbug@reddit
This is an exceptional level of unethical. Well done!
SpotFormal@reddit
With how aggressive and scummy organ donation is already handled this totally wouldn’t turn into organ farms.
ozaudi@reddit
Voluntary euthanasia is legal in most Australian jurisdictions and most costs are covered by Medicare.
That's how advanced developed societies operate.
AssignmentWeary1291@reddit
Its weird that we call "yeah you can kill yourself" advanced and developed 😆 advanced and developed would be the opposite of that.
ozaudi@reddit
On the contrary, a country that says no you have to put up with pain and suffering because our religious beliefs are not compatible with you having a choice is certainly not advanced and developed. If you have a fundamental belief that life is so sacred that that a person needs to be protected from their own wishes then it's you not society putting that block in the way
AssignmentWeary1291@reddit
> a country that says no you have to put up with pain and suffering because our religious beliefs are not compatible with you having a choice is certainly not advanced and developed.
A country that is "advanced and developed" would ultimately remove the pain and the suffering, killing yourself isn't advanced, you can do that shit at home for free with household items lmfao
ozaudi@reddit
Just how do you think a country could remove the pain and suffering when it's not medically possible ?
You're living in lala land if you think pain can magically disappear.
You clearly have a different concept of dignity if you think trying to kill yourself with household items on you lonesome is a better alternative to a medical sound procedure in the presence of loved ones.
AssignmentWeary1291@reddit
Point is suicide is the opposite of advanced or developed. That's not negotiable and is just a fact. Suicide funnily enough is a 1st world problem, most of the countries with the highest suicide rates are also the most "advanced and developed". For instance the rate in the US has risen while the rest of the world has dropped by 40%.
ozaudi@reddit
Oh dear. You have completely missed the point.
Given you think suicide is the domain of first world, advanced and developed countries shows you actually don't understand much too. Check your figures before spouting nonsense.
The discussion is about euthanasia not suicide.
A jurisdiction that creates laws to assist euthanasia in cases of incurable terminal diseases, give dignity to those who wish to end their lives for these reasons and legal certainty for the professionals that provide assistance is certainly more advanced than one that leaves them in the lurch to deal with themselves or leave professionals to break the law.
AssignmentWeary1291@reddit
Never said it was exclusive, just that the numbers are higher in those same "developed" countries you talk about. Side effect of modern luxury.
Euthanasia is just homicide dressed up with a pretty word lol
ozaudi@reddit
Your only argument is that you believe euthanasia is homicide and that's a bad thing. No one has said euthanasia is a pretty word, only you because you want to be emotive. Stop pretending you have compassion without understanding why people choose to medically end their suffering.
While you're interpretation of the statistics on suicide is incorrect it still has no bearing on this topic. Choosing to use it is relying on a red herring to avoid what is an uncomfortable discussion for you.
Topic is euthanasia not suicide. If you can't understand the difference then stop wasting everyone this time and educate yourself. Euthanasia is not homicide either but your unwillingness to improve your vocabulary is also just wasting everyone's time.
YeahYeahYeah6789@reddit
This is 100% correct.
Brrdock@reddit
Doesn't sound very civilized for the system to be enablers for people wanting to off themselves
ozaudi@reddit
It's far from automatic and requires multiple doctors to be involved.
A system that allows for voluntary euthanasia, will always be superior to one suffer prolonged irreversible pain. If you ever had a loved one in the situation you'll understand totally.
Brrdock@reddit
What situation do you mean?
I've been the loved one in the situation for 10 years, and some years later me and my loved ones are happy I didn't kill myself.
Thinking the pain is irreversible is a feature of depression etc. and anyone can make it that way if they want, especially by suicide.
This is about assisted suicide, not euthanasia
ZachMudskipper@reddit
Idk what these people are talking about but euthanasia for mental health in Australia is not a thing. I'm guessing they're talking about people with severe medical limitations that are almost OJ their deathbed already, but taking it out of context
ozaudi@reddit
You can call it what you want but voluntary euthanasia is assisted suicide. It's not about thinking the pain is irreversible it's about knowing it. Suggesting it's just a mindset is naive.
Brrdock@reddit
Only way to 'know' that and your future is to make it that way. Otherwise that's just thinking you know, which is also called belief, not knowing.
And they're different terms because they mean different things and are usually used in different contexts.
ozaudi@reddit
When your body is riddled with cancer and you can't walk because the pain is so intense I'm pretty sure you know that it's real pain and not just in your mind. Again you can call it what you want but they're the same thing.
I guess you have a fundamental belief in that life is sacred. That's fine and it's your choice but you shouldn't be denying people who think differently. Arguing against voluntary euthanasia is appalling
Brrdock@reddit
In that case you'd usually talk of voluntary euthanasia, but either way, I mean in case of mental illness.
I don't believe anything's sacred, and I can't deny anyone the right or ability to kill themselves. I just don't think that should be systemically enabled
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No_Week_8937@reddit
In Canada at least MAID is generally for people who are terminal. Cancer patients who don't want to keep living with excruciating pain.
Mediocre-Yoghurt-138@reddit
Lol many replies opening think that forcing their emotional support human to stay alive, for the family's own comfort, is more advanced.
SpecialFlutters@reddit
TIL australians also have a service called medicare but it's universal.. i'm not american or australian in my defense
ozaudi@reddit
Not so much a single service but a scheme that covers a range of health care services.
SentenceAwkward5302@reddit
Yup
iamayoutuberiswear@reddit
That doesn't reduce suicides, though? It's just another way for people to kill themselves
AcanthisittaBorn8304@reddit
Why should it reduce suicides?
iamayoutuberiswear@reddit
It says in the post that it would reduce suicides
AcanthisittaBorn8304@reddit
Ah. Okay, I definitely misread that then, my bad.
I understood it as reducing the trauma of people finding folks after (often messy) suicides without medical assistance - which is true.
swayedsuede@reddit
Honestly, as a man who really does not belong in the conversation of pro choice/life, I do not see why this is not considered to be pro choice.
Not looking a debate. Again, I'm a man. I'll never know what it's like to have to make a pro choice/life decision, so my input is invalid. But I'm open to having my mind changed.
AcanthisittaBorn8304@reddit
As someone who is radically pro-choice - not because I have a uterus, but because I believe people who have a uterus deserve human rights...
Yes, being in favor of assisted suicide fully aligns with being pro-choice; and being against it aligns with religious traditionalism and authoritarianism, just as "pro-life" does.
No_Detail9259@reddit
Ok canada.
apnorton@reddit
I don't think funding is the sticking point/where people debate this issue.
ihateyourtattoo@reddit
the Dutch euthanize autistic people who are suffering
Frewtti@reddit
Canada kills people for being poor, saves money over giving them "free" healthcare.
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MariahJames8@reddit
False
Kalamistry@reddit
So?
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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Tron_35@reddit
The Germans used to do that by force
TempusCavus@reddit
This gives an incentive to the organ harvesters to lie about whether a person wanted to die.
Svardskampe@reddit
But the euthanasia stuff is poison and ruins the organs.
alterego200@reddit
Good point! They should replace the euthanasia method with decapitation.
Substantial_Back_865@reddit
The method doesn’t have to be poison. Inert gas chambers would be viable as well, but I’m pretty sure the organs have to be harvested before the patient is actually dead in order to be viable, so that might not actually be possible. I guess they could just strap them to a motorcycle and hope for the best.
SentenceAwkward5302@reddit
You can euthanise just by giving the patient more and more morphine untill they fall into a sleep the don't wake up from. At some point in the process you activate a dialysis machine.
TheTrueKingOfLols@reddit
Does that amount of morphine not negatively affect the organs?
SentenceAwkward5302@reddit
It mainly effects the nervous system and indirectly the mobility (not damage) of for example the gastro-intestinal route. The dialysis can mitigate the minute potential damage.
ZachMudskipper@reddit
What if someone needs an intestine transplant though?
tadsagtasgde@reddit
Or they could anesthetize them and take all their organs. They probably wouldn’t live.
burns_before_reading@reddit
Then wouldn't it make more sense to just remove the organs, then you get the euthenasia for free?
Mm2k@reddit
The removal of all their organs will kill them too!
_NoPants@reddit
Ya, why are we wasting time with two separate procedures, when one will do the job?
OkDrag3967@reddit (OP)
To minimize the pain of death. Euthanasia is just intentional killing. Anesthesia is just stuff that puts people under. The least that could be done for someone seeking to pass away is to minimize their pain.
dry_bee17@reddit
Anesthesia to stop the pain and remove the heart to actually kill them. Seems simple
ghoti00@reddit
You don't need the poison once you take out the organs.
mustang256@reddit
Clearly OP intended euthanasia via guillotine
ozaudi@reddit
Not always true. Australians who choose voluntary euthanasia can also choose to donate their organs. It's not common because most people who go this route have severe medical conditions and organs aren't suitable for transplant.
dapterail@reddit
then just use bullet
vid_23@reddit
Rope
Temporary_Pie8723@reddit
Take their organs out while they’re alive then?
And then euthanise them.
This is a better compromise.
Or even better, you could just take their hearts out first, and then they are automatically dead already. No need to use chemicals❤️
AnimationOverlord@reddit
Nitrogen asphyxiation is perfect for harvesting organs
Aggravating_Air_699@reddit
i think the idea is outright inhuman
SeanFromQueens@reddit
/s Can't see the profit motive causing any harm
AcanthisittaBorn8304@reddit
Yes to the voluntary euthanasia.
No to the organ harvesting.
CroManana@reddit
Already a thing. MAID.
Only_Biscotti_2748@reddit
Everything you just said is bullshit.
CroManana@reddit
Noelia Castillo
Only_Biscotti_2748@reddit
Did you even try reading about her case?
Because she absolutely wasn't "just lonely" or had "minor medical issues".
Who am I kidding, we both know you didn't.
CroManana@reddit
They didn't let her back out last minute. Her organs were going to generate millions in profit and they weren't about to respect her right to change her mind.
EnvironmentalEbb628@reddit
She was steadfast in her decision and said so clearly before she demanded that her family be removed from the room so they couldn’t interfere, she spent her last minutes alone with her doctor.
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Only_Biscotti_2748@reddit
"My source is that I made it the fuck up" - You
Jesus Christ my dude, at least try to make it believable.
EnvironmentalEbb628@reddit
The issues hindering the implementation of proper euthanasia laws isn’t the cost associated with it.
ozaudi@reddit
As evidenced by some of the very naive comments here
EnvironmentalEbb628@reddit
Very few people on this thread have heard their grandmother cry and whimper for three days as she lay dying in the living room. I didn’t hear it either to be honest, mom had the radio playing loudly as she sent me away to stay with relatives. The doctor eventually gave her morphine until she died of an overdose, it cost my family a fortune to bribe him to do so.
ozaudi@reddit
I find it amazing that those talking against assisted euthanasia don't understand it's about dignity for the patient, supporting the families of patients and safety from prosecution for any medical professionals involved. To suggest that people can take their own lives totally ignores the impact that has on families and in fact whether it's even possible for a patient to take their own life.
I know your story isn't unique either.
BeastyBaiter@reddit
So in your view the official treatment for depression should be suicide rather than counseling?
Aside from that aspect, you have to consider how it will be abused.
EnvironmentalEbb628@reddit
You do know that the vast people get euthanasia for other things right? Emotional suffering isn’t even in the top ten of reasons.
But I do agree that where there is money there is abuse.
randomentity12@reddit
If the world has driven me to suicide, last thing i want to do is help it, hell inconveniencing somebody and costing a lot of resources and money to clean up is kind of a bonus as far as i'm concerned, if i have ben driven to suicide.
EnvironmentalEbb628@reddit
Damn, I have the exact opposite idea: the last thing I would want is to make life even worse for others. If I had a 1950’s limited edition Porsche that I didn’t like I would just give it to someone who likes oldtimer cars, not set it on fire because I’m pissed I don’t get the car I wanted.
YeahYeahYeah6789@reddit
Hugely agree
HeebieJeebiex@reddit
How would an assisted suicide program reduce suicide? I hope you get the help u need because you're obviously not thinking clear headedly about this stuff. People should be put in programs to help them want to live and have hope and have motivation to keep trying, not being wiped out and validated in their horrific ideations.
HexagonalDab@reddit
I sense an ulterior motive here. Tall buildings are everywhere.
Bubbert73@reddit
Lethal injection and anesthetized organs can’t be harvested. I know if an animal eats the tissue of anesthetized livestock, it will die too. So for your plan to work, maybe the person could be deprived oxygen or shot in the head. I can’t see that ever flying. Maybe have their blood drained. Idk.
ShitMcClit@reddit
This just turns into pressing people into suicide so they can harvest their organs. Already happened in Canada.
Only_Biscotti_2748@reddit
No, it hasn't.
ShitMcClit@reddit
Yeah it has.
Only_Biscotti_2748@reddit
"My source is that I made it the fuck up" - You
traumahawk88@reddit
Talk to China and get their input on making it mobile, like their lethal injection vans
sage_is_rage@reddit
This is why I didn't select 'organ donor' my last license renewal.
Brrdock@reddit
I can't see any potential problems down the line with allowing businesses to harvest our organs for money for no other reason
Exact_Avocado5545@reddit
This is a terrible idea because it'll incentivize companies to seek out depressed people and kill them for the purpose of harvesting them. And before you say anything: yes, there are companies that evil
Sad_Restaurant_5276@reddit
There are plenty of organs if we harvest the illegal immigrants.
Klingenberg1251@reddit
Based
GlibLettuce1522@reddit
Puoi anche finanziare una catena di fast food per cannibali "MaņDonald"
wizzard419@reddit
The only problem is that the people who you normally think of for the subject are already ill, their organs are likely not usable after being subjected to countless drugs, radiation, chemo, etc.
If you're thinking of it for healthy people there is a massive ethical minefield there.
Amazing_Loquat280@reddit
The reason we need to be careful with this: euthanasia should not be offered to people where the physician cannot maximally confirm that the patient is exercising their most autonomous capacity when making that request. That means knowing what you’re asking for, understanding the consequences, and truly appreciating what that means for those around you. And studies strongly suggest that depression (which usually causes the aforementioned suicides) really messes with that last part.
The reason this is important is not because you’re asking to die, but because you’re essentially asking a medical professional, who presumably took the Hippocratic oath, to kill you. So they become a stakeholder in this. So damn right they have a duty to exercise upmost caution in confirming that your most autonomous self actually wants this
KittiesandPlushies@reddit
But how will they continue working us Americans into the ground if they provide us with an assisted suicide option? /s
Useful_Calendar_6274@reddit
stop calling assisted suicide euthanasia
moreplateslessdates9@reddit
semantics
Useful_Calendar_6274@reddit
no it matters bc euthanasia is mercy killing. I agree to that too but only if you lost all mental capabilities
moreplateslessdates9@reddit
and mercy killing is also called assisted suicide in common vernacular. The only reason your taking issue is because it softens what it is
Useful_Calendar_6274@reddit
no, mercy killing is not called suicide. that'd be crazy. your argument collapses to why even have language?? we should point and grunt at things like Neanderthals
swiggityswirls@reddit
Anything involving money means accepting that some people will abuse the system for profit. Like pop up underground businesses offering hundreds of thousands of dollars for the persons family if only they support the one individual to go through with this. I know if I were in extreme poverty and I’m bearing witness to my family suffering all around me, it would feel like a noble sacrifice of my life and organs in exchange for an improvement in their livelihoods.
Now that this border has been crossed, well what difference would it make to make deals on all my organs? Or auctioning the timing of my euthanasia for the benefit of a wealthy recipient? You’re selling people at this point.
This is what they mean when they say ‘slippery slope’. You have the best intentions with the first concession, but then the difference to the next concession is negligible, and so the next one and the next one.
That’s why you cannot tie any financial incentives for anything like this - it’s too easy for abuses we can’t even begin to fathom.
I wholeheartedly agree though that legal euthanasia should be legalized everywhere. It just shouldn’t be tied to anything that brings anyone profit.
Timmah_Timmah@reddit
I can't imagine that inserting a profit motive into this would have any downside.
disc1965@reddit
Right. When have for profit operations ever caused an issue?
moreplateslessdates9@reddit
This is kinda dystopian
CreepyOldGuy63@reddit
That “My body my choice” thing covers part one. Part two depends on who’s doing the killing and what they want for that service.
TranslatorOne5089@reddit
are we serious right now
Anubis-Hound@reddit
We should get to choose the method I want to be put in a guillotine in front of a crowd and have it broadcast to the main like I was a rebel heroically dying for my cause
Xeno_man@reddit
The main resistance against euthanasia is that people fear doctors pushing it SO they can harvest your organs. In Canada we have MAID (Medical assistance in dying) and if you are on Facebook you will see a bunch of fake stories of people going to their doctor over some mild discomfort and claiming the first option the doctor gave them was MAID. Reality is MAID is a long process that has multiple check lists that needs to be cleared before even offering it and it has multiple opportunities to back out of at any time. Well over 90% of maid cases the diagnoses was imminent death so it just ended their suffering sooner.
SentenceAwkward5302@reddit
That is a great idea!