Learn to Speak
Posted by theMightBoop@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 450 comments
Sweet lord, just because we are computer nerds doesn’t mean we aren’t in a professional environment. If you want to advance in your career then learn to speak.
Sitting in a meeting and just face palming at some of my compatriots inability to articulate themselves.
That is all.
techypunk@reddit
I can articulate my thoughts. I just don't speaks corporate jargon because I'm not white, and I did not grow up wealthy or upper middle.class. It is literally learning another language. Speaking professional is just proving you went to an ivy league school, or you grew up around other people who talk lime this is real life. Its classist, semi-racist, and I hate this take.
Prepped-n-Ready@reddit
How is it classist or racist? You can read the same books...
techypunk@reddit
Because I was told.I "don't speak professional enough" my entire early career. Corporate jargon and "professional speak" is inherently only taught in privileged neighborhoods. It is not taught in lower class neighborhoods or schools.
Its a systemic problem.
Prepped-n-Ready@reddit
I dont see how that stops you form learning...
techypunk@reddit
Being forced to learn to speak another dialect to make rich white people feel comfortable is the problem. Talking down to people not knowing the language, while they are BIPOC is the problem. Not hiring people, because they don't speak a dialect only spoken by wealthy people is the problem.
I don't see why you don't understand this.
Prepped-n-Ready@reddit
I dont see how that stops you from learning...
techypunk@reddit
Bad bot
Prepped-n-Ready@reddit
Youre the bot bro. Youre complaining like its impossible to read a book and join the conversation.
techypunk@reddit
Bad bot
Prepped-n-Ready@reddit
Bad person
iPlayKeys@reddit
Also not white, and I didn’t go to college, but I still speak the dialect that’s appropriate to the setting, the situation, and the people I am communicating with.
techypunk@reddit
And its systemic racism, because people.in our neighborhoods were not taught how to speak "professional"
theMightBoop@reddit (OP)
Yea I’m white but I grew up poor. I did go to college but it wasn’t Ivy League. Ivy League schools are not a requirement but neither is college.
I am not talking pronunciation or diction. Although these help. I am just saying learn to formulate thoughts into a coherent sentence with a bit of correct grammar.
If you don’t know how to do that then I suggest you learn. There is a horde of free knowledge out there on the internet that can teach someone sentence structure and grammar.
If you don’t want to do corporate speak that’s fine. Most people hate that anyway. Being straight and direct is better. No one is asking you to drop your dialect or accent if you have one.
I am just saying if you believe in working in your technical skills to advance then also work on your soft skills including speaking. If you don’t want to work on any of your skills - well don’t be surprised when you don’t advance.
techypunk@reddit
I'm fine innny career. Higher than most people here. "Talking professional" is racist. And yes my language used is completely n different than people in the suburbs.
I can complete a.sentence. saying its not coherent? Crazy.
Ron-Swanson-Mustache@reddit
TIL I went to an ivy league school or grew up around other people who talk lime this in real life.
Also I'm apparently racist and classist. I'll also let our HR know that corporate jargon is only for white, wealthy, or upper class people.
Bigdaddyjim@reddit
I've got to disagree. If you want to be taken seriously in IT, you have to be able to communicate explicitly and with a degree of technical sophistication. Yes, you can certainly do IT and not be a legit public speaker, but you do have to be able to collaborate and exchange ideas without creating confusion. It's not classist or racist at all. The world also needs ditch diggers and fry cooks if you don't want to make that effort.
IndependentBat8365@reddit
Mastering Technical Sales author, John Care once said something to the effect of “leadership will direct you toward the people that speak the same way you do.”
So, if you want to promote your ideas and career, you need to learn the language of your audience. Speaking highly technical to a director or executive will end up getting your information ignored or directed down the management structure till you’re speaking with someone that can converse just as technical. That’s not where decisions are made.
If you can reframe technical needs and features as business requirements and objectives, then that’s the language of VPs and executives.
_exclusvty@reddit
Only been in IT for 2 years. 0 certs. And very superficial technical knowledge. I've received a promotion every 6 months and now am a Jr vcio because of my ability to communicate to the customer as well as the techs. It's been an incredible super power that no one seems to understand. Good for OP that they see it in real time
bedel99@reddit
Please don't just speak for speakings sake. None of us want to be in the meeting, if you say what you need too and shutup we can all go.
moonwork@reddit
For me, this is what meetings are about - communicating about an issue at hand.
It's frankly exhausting to constantly have meetings with people who don't have agendas for meetings, but rather meet because "it's fun" or "helps maintain a collaborative spirit".
It doesn't feel collaborative when I'm being held hostage just so that people can exchange nonsense with each other.
agent-squirrel@reddit
So I know Reddit is very Americentric and that's fine so I might cop heat for this but I am in Australia.
We have an older gentleman on the team that moved from the US who is nice enough as a person but he just cannot help talking about some random mundane shit in every standup meeting. In Australia we can seem abrasive to other cultures and we love a laugh but we usually say what we need to and move on.
I don't know if it's a specific part of America or even if it's an American thing at all but I've only ever heard Americans reiterate their point 3 or more times in slightly different ways. It's honestly mind numbing.
bedel99@reddit
g'day, I say shut up, you have had your time we are moving on. Easier for me to get away with when I am in OZ.
agent-squirrel@reddit
Yeah we did this today. He was not happy.
bedel99@reddit
tell him to respect our culture, or fuck off :)
independent__rabbit@reddit
I work with a guy that just loves to hear himself talk. He thinks he’s the smartest person alive and wants everyone to know it, so he talks to try and show off all the words he knows. The funny thing is that if you actually understand what he’s trying to say, you will quickly realize that he’s an idiot and is just saying big words that he’s heard other people use. He also loves to copy code straight from ChatGPT and pass it off as something he wrote even though he can’t explain what it’s doing.
Nu-Hir@reddit
I've written code from scratch and can't explain what it's doing.
bedel99@reddit
Maybe are you a senior? :)
renegadecanuck@reddit
Sounds like when I try to do anything with CSS. Eventually, I'll get the page looking exactly how I wanted. But there's guaranteed to be a million attributes that aren't necessary because I just kept trying things until it worked.
MinisterOfSauces@reddit
I used to write a lot of Perl too.
Vuiz@reddit
I have one too. What's annoying with them is that they really want to have a meeting and talk, but engaging with them is impossible. You get cut off after 5-15 seconds and spend the next 2-5 minutes "listening".
agent-squirrel@reddit
These people wait to talk, they don't have discussions or listen.
Financial-Act-665@reddit
Every single time
PositiveBubbles@reddit
Ah yes the parrots. I don't engage with them unless I have to and I'll always use questions with them that I know they can't answer and listen to them try the usual "its in the pipeline, let's take this offline/ circle back" nonsense.
What's wrong with saying "i don't know but j can find out"
agent-squirrel@reddit
"take this offline/circle back/give you some minutes back/etc" are the quickest way to make me think someone is a corpo fuckwit. I switch off immediately when I hear corporate buzzwords.
"Give you some minutes back" is probably my biggest nemesis. A meeting ends 2 minutes before it's scheduled end time and the organiser makes it sound like they've done you some huge favour by giving you two fucking minutes. Whoop de do.
ipreferanothername@reddit
We have one that can't even use chat gpt, he just runs his damn mouth
modz4u@reddit
Lol I've called out quite a few people for this over time. Not even called out in a rude way, because I have people and soft skills. It's funny to watch them get flustered and panic because they were trying to make others feel dumb for asking questions. So I just turned the table on them.
They said to the business user "this is too technical for you to understand" a few times in the same call. So I jumped in and said "even if it's too technical for the business and us business analysts, we just need it spelled out so we can document it".
Fatality 😎
Blueline42@reddit
This... Some recurring meetings I have had in the past used to drive me nuts when you have someone on who talks just to talk.
I just shut up, let them go and zone out then work on something else until the meetings over. They spew garbage and waste everyone's time.
Twist_and_pull@reddit
One of my old team member years ago got booted bcuz of this before his training period was over lol.
VexingRaven@reddit
There's someone I work with who is infamous for taking 5 years to get to the point whenever he speaks. His son got hired as an intern and does the same thing. It's funny that they both do it, but damn does it drive me nuts!
Raivix@reddit
I don't think OP necessarily meant that people should speak to be heard. Rather, if you have a point you need to get across, you need to be able to clearly and concisely do so, and additionally be able to code switch based on the target audience as needed.
mazobob66@reddit
Yeah, there are plenty of people who just want everyone to know how much they know. I work at a university, and there is a mailing list for the IT folk on campus. I hate it. Someone will ask a technical question, and without fail, there will be at least 1 or 2 long-winded responses that tell you everything they know about the subject...but don't actually answer the question.
dotnetmonke@reddit
I've convinced our management that if a single topic takes over a general discussion/standup meeting for 5 minutes, it needs to be separated into its own get meeting only for the people that need to be there. There's only so many sidetracked discussions a man can handle, and standup should not be 30 minutes because 2 people start talking in circles about authentication.
sryan2k1@reddit
You're gonna get a lot of downvotes, but the reality is that this job is like 90% soft skills and 10% technical ability. The ones who understand that go far.
DeifniteProfessional@reddit
He's 100% right. The amount of IT techs I know who are obtuse, pedantic, or just expective of end users to know XYZ is astounding. Even when they know the end user needs more help than usual, sending a screenshot and a half baked instruction is ridiculous
Somnuszoth@reddit
Can’t stress this enough. I don’t hire based on technical skills alone. If I feel you can’t talk to our users without making them more confused, that’s a major problem. No one cares if you fixed their problem or how quick you resolved it, but you bet your ass they’ll remember if you made them frustrated or feel like a dumbass.
jmp242@reddit
This is some level of insane to me - if people don't care if you fix their problem, why are they talking to you? I know, I've seen it - people would apparently rather be gladhanded than ever get anything done, but that seems... well... like a bad way to run a business. Like if nothing works because all of IT is spending more time making people feel good than actually solving blockers and problems...
The good news is I can just copy paste from AI and it'll make people feel good and I can do something more useful.
Somnuszoth@reddit
Of course you still need to resolve their issue. It’s more of they won’t remember exactly what you did, but the will remember your attitude and sentiment towards them. I don’t know about everyone else, but the places I’ve been at do not need encouragement on hiding shit from IT to fix. If they feel like they’re going to be treated like they’re not human they won’t call and report anything.
MitochondrianHouse@reddit
Sorry, I have my MBA and I think we should replace domestic IT with offshore, and introduce a language barrier to the mix!
Winter-Fondant7875@reddit
Wait, this isn't r/ShittySysadmin !
I once had a CMDB manager who insisted it was called CDBM. I suppose they could make a case for that, but it's not industry standard. "Stop trying to make fetch happen!"
RevLoveJoy@reddit
Interviewed hundreds of candidates during my career. Hired dozens and dozens. The tech part of my interview process is basically 5 minutes of "tell me how you find answers to things you don't already know." Anyone who can't walk me through how they do basic troubleshooting in a couple minutes almost certainly lacks the skills I want.
The rest of the interview, like 90% +, is how do you work with people? How do you disarm people who are worked up? How do you find common ground? How do you give yourself breathing room to solve something when someone is flipping out? Who was a tough boss? Why? Who was a bad boss? Why? Name your favorite colleague ever. Why?
All soft skills. The job is soft skills. I can teach any half decent engineer the hard technical bits. I can't teach them how to talk someone off a ledge.
i8noodles@reddit
you can teach someone how to talk to people. it just requires way more effort then its worth for most jobs.
i am not a naturally gifted talker. i am actually pretty bad it and will go non verbal given the slightest chance. i have "learned" to talk to people via great effort.
Geminii27@reddit
I mean, I couldn't give answers to half of these; bosses and colleagues vanish from my memory the moment I walk out the door of a job.
timbotheny26@reddit
Blame Microsoft and/or get a bit angry with them so they know they aren't alone in their frustrations.
"Honestly, if I was next to you with a mallet, I just might hit the damn thing myself!"
narcissisadmin@reddit
Yeah that was my thing when I first started help desk: make it "us" vs the problem.
RevLoveJoy@reddit
I'm really not trying to be adversarial, but I feel like the blame game is single use and zero sum. Whereas the empathy / sympathy expression works often and repeatably. FWIW.
timbotheny26@reddit
That wasn't my actual answer, I was being tongue in cheek.
Sorry for not being more clear about that.
RevLoveJoy@reddit
Oh, derp! I'm an idiot! Mea culpa!
timbotheny26@reddit
Also in customer service roles, I've found that the blame game is a decent ice-breaker when the blame is being put in something faceless like a giant corporation or an inanimate object. It helps to bring things down a bit, and after that is when you start to implement the empathy/sympathy, maybe throw in some humor to lighten the mood, etc.
Expensive_Plant_9530@reddit
Even worse when they make users feel stupid.
Yeah okay sometimes the users ARE stupid. But it’s not our job as IT to punish them for that.
When you get to the point where users are afraid to put tickets in or call IT because they’re worried they’re gonna be made to feel dumb, all it does is encourage issues to fester until they rot and explode.
Silent-Tea4500@reddit
It's crazy that so many people have that attitude
Like of course the end user doesn't know what they're doing, we'd be out of a job otherwise lmao
Expensive_Plant_9530@reddit
Honestly I love stupid end users. It means my job security is better.
We had an IT tech who did stuff like that and it caused issues with staff and management. Guy was condescending to users and often provided little or no help when they called in, seeing a lot of tasks as beneath him, or “the user should know better”, or whatever.
Staff ended up hating him.
SkiingAway@reddit
Yeah when I used to do user support, whenever someone would be apologizing for bringing me with a simple/dumb problem after I fixed it in 30 seconds I'd just be like "I'm always happy to deal with problems I know the answers to."
Tymanthius@reddit
Stupid I hate. But not having my skill set? NO PROBLEM! That's what I'm paid for.
You be good at your job, I'll be good at mine, and we'll get this shit figured out.
psiphre@reddit
stupid bad, ignorant fine. there is an infinite amount of knowledge of which i am ignorant, so the user and i are not so different. but a vehicle owner should know how to put gas in the tank.
reserved_seating@reddit
It’s not a necessity if you live in, and never leave, Oregon.
narcissisadmin@reddit
Okay, they should know how to operate their wipers and where to put the wiper fluid. Same with the blinkers.
reserved_seating@reddit
Noting they live in the desert and drive a bmw!
Heh, I was just being a wise ass and completely agree with you that you need a basic understanding of the tools you use. You won’t catch me operating a crane or intune anytime soon. I don’t think I know where the doors even are.
Raichu4u@reddit
If he's gonna pay me to put gas in the tank... I'm not complaining.
blackthornedk@reddit
Stupid end users at least have solvable problems. It's much harder to 'fix' broken usb-c docks, printers with unicorn drivers or sass vendors who think good performance means double their JavaScript blobs.
Demented_CEO@reddit
I've been a hiring manager and one candidate was particularly proud of clearing more than 5 tickets per day, asking how many tickets we'd expect to get in a week.
At first, I thought I'll humor him and ask more about those tickets. Like, what was the scope? What constitutes "resolving" a ticket, etc. This guy turned out to be full of it...
E.g. if a Mac user can't print, but a Windows user can, then the ticket ough to be resolved immediately since Mac "clearly isn't supported by the vendor".
Dude. That was a real life example from our environment and we only started having issues after updating to Tahoe. No follow ups, nothing.
Yikes.
PhillAholic@reddit
Some managers encourage this behavior. I've seen "number of tickets closed" as a KPI or Metric plenty.
Temporary-Library597@reddit
This. I can teach the tech stuff to anyone. Being a person who understands that non-IT staff are your customers? Having empathy for co-workers who are pulling in the same direction? You can't teach that.
psiphre@reddit
i remember this distinction being a huge contention back in the LJ days. the customer service lj group would butt heads with tech support constantly.
motific@reddit
My view is I can give people technical skills. I can't teach logical troubleshooting and communication skills.
ZAFJB@reddit
... *are teachable
GooseTheGeek@reddit
They absolutely are, but that doesn't mean /u/motific can teach them.
Most people find it harder both to learn and teach soft skills over technical skills.
motific@reddit
I wasn’t the one teaching them. We had other people for that.
motific@reddit
You will never teach someone to be as good as a person who is a natural clear communicator, or someone who is innately good at logic though. Anyone who claims you can is definitely lying.
SusAdmin42@reddit
I’d argue “logic” is harder to teach than communication. Communication requires practice. Practice you can get by… talking to users.
Arudinne@reddit
They are teachable, but not all of us are good teachers.
motific@reddit
Even with specialist communications coaches you can only take people so far.
DaprasDaMonk@reddit
Faaaaaacts
ScrambyEggs79@reddit
Absolutely - I've seen highly technical and capable staff fail and miss advancement opportunities due to lack of professional development skills. A strong forward-facing employee to be the face and voice to the users is invaluable to an IT team.
Arudinne@reddit
I expect nothing from our users but I am still dissapointed with some of them.
That said, I still try to be kind and friendly. At the end of the day, its IT's job to make sure they can do their job.
MidniqhtVibes@reddit
Same, everyone gets friendly service but boy do I want to ask some of them how they are able to survive (Stuff like turning a Bluetooth keyboard ON)
bk2947@reddit
My internal dialogue is that everyone is specialized, and I wouldn’t know how to do their job or would want to.
1morecoffeeplz@reddit
Agreed!
mnvoronin@reddit
You don't have to be a car mechanic to be able to drive a car. But you do need to know how to operate it.
Vorstog_EVE@reddit
I like this comparison!
mnvoronin@reddit
You could also say that "but I'm not a car mechanic" is not a valid excuse for not being able to adjust the aircon settings.
packet_weaver@reddit
You would be surprised. A lot of people don't understand or figure out how the newer model cars work for that stuff. And they don't want to learn. If it isn't a dial/lever, it's greek. Zones? What are those? Automatic? No I want fans on or off, my speed, what is automatic? Don't bother, see I just press this and fans are full blast.
changee_of_ways@reddit
This is a distinction that is apparently lost on the license examiners in my area boy howdy.
Geminii27@reddit
Which... OK, maybe, but I've regularly seen people getting paid multiple times my wage who take days to do something I could knock out in hours. Or minutes. At a higher quality.
narcissisadmin@reddit
Yep, repeating it through gritted teeth lol
ProgRockin@reddit
Want to? No. Could easily learn it in probably no time? Most likely.
Fluffer_Wuffer@reddit
Hey bud, That's a solid way of reasoning it out, and excellently explained - It took me years to reach that level of "enlightenment"..
This should be the mandatory desktop backdrop for all PFY's!
MidniqhtVibes@reddit
Yes exactly
OnlineGunDealer@reddit
It's 2026 and I get tickets where they couldn't figure out their monitor was turned off.
I'm nice to everyone though :)
reserved_seating@reddit
I was stumped on how to make a surface keyboard discoverable via BT until I looked it up. After that, and too this day, I still think it’s stupid.
narcissisadmin@reddit
Some of the BT HTPC keyboards are pretty janky in that regard, I have a couple that are a PITA to reconnect when the connection is lost.
sybrwookie@reddit
For the most part, I understand, this shit is tricky sometimes.
But there was this one user a while back, I honestly don't know how she didn't die from forgetting to breathe for too long. Every single thing she said or did was....just unbelievable how someone could be that dumb.
PhillAholic@reddit
Ask them about what they do.
I had a user who seemed like an absolute moron. Had so may issues with his system and would never learn from any training or anything. I had the same thoughts about how this person functioned day to day. Then one day I was in a meeting about a new project and they presented. Turns out this guy is one of the top experts in his field in the industry. A humbling experience. If everyone knew how to do everything, we wouldn't have jobs.
Arudinne@reddit
I've had more than one ticket where somehow the power adapter from someone's dock had become unplugged
1morecoffeeplz@reddit
Well said!
Shoddy-Security310@reddit
what, hell no. Its their manager job to make sure they do their job. IT job is to make sure that the required tools are accessible and working. Why the hell do I need to teach a user how to upload a document to onedrive or how to turn on Bluetooth headphones?
Arudinne@reddit
When I said it's our job to make sure they can do their job, I meant in the context of making sure the tools we provide them (computer, software, etc) work.
stonecoldcoldstone@reddit
and, if they would be capable to do everything we'd have no job either
awful_at_internet@reddit
Bruh
Raichu4u@reddit
They are the reason I get to work in my underpants. Someone being confused with tech is perfectly fine in the grand scheme of things.
bedel99@reddit
I just expect the senior engineer for XYZ to know some thing about XYZ. Is that too much?
Generico300@reddit
People get promoted to their level of incompetence. So...yes.
BatemansChainsaw@reddit
That explains my last promotion...
sryan2k1@reddit
I've never met a DBA that knew how a database worked, I'm not even sure some of them could spell DBA.
Valdaraak@reddit
The number of "web developers" I've had to walk through things that are squarely in their field and not mine have been way too high in my career.
TheGenericUser0815@reddit
??? I thought that knowing how the database works is the core skill of a dba. At least I understand my job like this.
sryan2k1@reddit
You'd think that, wouldn't you.
Arudinne@reddit
I wish we had a DBA. They'd probably do a better job handling the reports than the current team.
Or run for the hills.
Probably the second thing.
i8noodles@reddit
i honestly have given up faith in that. i got a senior software engineer call me about github. like there entire job is to know how to use github. sure a junior who doesnt know, thats fair play, but how do u go through the entire career without learning it
PositiveBubbles@reddit
I've learned that 'senior' in title doesn't even mean leadership skills. I was paid as a junior in my last role and told to babysit the new 'senior' we got. I moved teams for many reasons but they are still difficult to deal with and aren't approachable and are supposedly a SME for this product. My colleague and I who both were in that team and moved to this one, still carry this guy to a degree.
I've also seen some great Juniors as well display senior qualities so I've just learned to not expect anything based on titles or claims of experience unless I actually see it now.
Electrical-Staff0305@reddit
Ugh, we had a company that we stopped using for certifications and testing (exida) and this was one of the reasons. They’d have meetings with their principal engineers or their technical directors who were less than useless, then they’d have a couple of junior engineers, some were okay, some not so much, but all were still green. But they had a senior engineer who was amazing and somehow managed to keep our projects from falling apart in spite of their principal engineer’s and leadership’s best efforts.
Of course they laid him off, along with some of the engineers we actually liked. We cut ties with them shortly thereafter.
SpotlessCheetah@reddit
yes
simulation07@reddit
Senior engineer here. I’m crying.
Demented_CEO@reddit
IT is a customer service job.
No matter if that job takes place at a data center, in a cubicle, or somewhere in between. A lot of people in IT don't grasp that.
Some sysadmins and support engineers go into their professions somehow thinking blinking LEDs is all they'll deal with, which is... weird.
Like, where did you get that expectation? Even the Hollywood stereotypes of nerds have some social life about them.
Geminii27@reddit
I'm not about to base real life expectations on Hollywood stereotypes, though...
Sea-Oven-7560@reddit
Let's be clear here, everything in IT is a customer service job. It doesn't matter if you are a L1 helpdesk person answering phones or a senior architect building out the latest data center we all answer to the customer they formally or informally purchase our services every day and if your services suck they will cause trouble for us. It's all about keeping the customer happy and that is the case at every level.
vectravl400@reddit
You have to remember this job's been around since the 60's in some form. Some of us got into it when blinkin' lights were the only thing we had to interact with. There was an allowance for, or sometimes even the expection, that computer nerds would be socially awkward and the work tended to attract those kinds of people.
Soft skills are a relatively recent expectation, within the last 15-20 years. So is the idea that this is a customer service job.
uptimefordays@reddit
I would argue that there are varying levels of customer service. In tech support roles, you interact with customers at different levels (end users, technical customers, and all points in between). As an engineer, you have internal customers or stakeholders whose needs you must comprehend and translate into technical solutions, or explain in business terms when something won’t work or isn’t feasible.
In both cases, soft skills are important.
AFlyingGideon@reddit
Yes. I once dropped an upstream peer (a vendor) because I wasn't permitted to speak to anyone who'd not ask how to spell "BGP" when writing up a ticket. The company had just been acquired, and actual engineers were no longer accessible.
I understand that this isn't exactly OP's point - with which I agree and would extend to include written communication - but it's not completely unrelated, either. A service vendor (whether internal or not) should be able to communicate effectively with customers at various levels.
Demented_CEO@reddit
I've done IT since the 90s and it's always been a customer service job. Who do you do IT for if not end users?
The servers aren't there to just serve themselves, so I'd wager there hasn't been any dramatic shift on this end...
And most of my colleagues are between 20-30, fresh into the industry. Our oldest employees are 40-ish.
I've set up mainframes, too. There's always someone you need to talk to. Legal, finance, CEO. That's customer service.
cvc75@reddit
I've seen some attitudes like "I'm an engineer, I've got my 1st level to talk to the users, and my manager to talk to CEOs and stakeholders. And for vendors, I only want to talk to their techs, not their sales people."
vectravl400@reddit
Sysadmin work is usually done for the company as a whole, not the individual end users. If you define the customer as the company in general, then I guess that's customer service.
The help desk was traditionally the individual customer service interface in IT and they fed things into the sysadmins, but with the trend away from properly paid and staffed helpdesks over the last 2 decades, that's forced more of those socially awkward sysadmins to take on direct end user interaction.
IT people in their 20s not having social skills is generational. Social skill expections have been lowered with every generation over the last 30 years. That means it's now up to employers to train people so they have the social skills they want.
FearlessAwareness469@reddit
Yes however I expect the same respect that the person in need expects when someone comes to them. Yes I am fixing your problem, but you are not a customer, you are my co worker in a professional environment. I expect you to act like it.
Moontoya@reddit
I got into IT 30 years ago yo look after computers and networks
The job is babysitting users
The computers are largely just fine
narcissisadmin@reddit
End users should know how to use their computers and the software they've been hired to work with.
maximumtesticle@reddit
The amount of end users I know who don't know how to right-click is astounding
BemusedBengal@reddit
And every click is a double-click
f0gax@reddit
“Why don’t end users know the three way handshake?!?!” - like 25% of the posts in this sub. It’s kind of sad.
bingblangblong@reddit
This is my favourite IT parody ever and I will post it at every appropriate opportunity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02a723LsoFA
adappergentlefolk@reddit
listen those guys also tend to be the ones who are extremely proficient technically. as a tech lead and manager my job is to shield those fuckers from the dumb ass users and managerial bullshit so they have a steady stream of valuable technical work to crank out for me
DeifniteProfessional@reddit
Wouldn't bother me so much if they were actually good at the tech side....
CosmoKing2@reddit
I've made a career out of being the liaison between IT and life sciences operations. Both groups (everywhere) refuse to speak a common language to articulate their needs, problems, and requirements.
ApsychicRat@reddit
so i actually do enjoy being pedantic, but it has a time and place. i do it at home with my brothers or with a co-worker i have re-pour with. i dont do it with every random person i talk with. but then i suppose that is those soft skills kicking in again to know when to say what
Plastic_Willow734@reddit
Exactly. No one is expected to be a super genius that knows everything ever. If all you’ve got is the ability to troubleshoot, open google search, and be half as charming as a dog you’ll be able to climb the ladder
SpaceFighter78@reddit
Doesn't really matter if he is right or not at this point. He is just an asshole who can't write/present his ideas in a professional and helpful manner.
That's quite ironic considering the subject he is talking about.
Its_My_Purpose@reddit
Yes
screamingpackets@reddit
90% soft skills is not accurate. Maybe for a manager it is. If you’re telling me being a good engineer is 90% soft skills, I call absolute BS.
Yes. Soft skills are critical. However, in no real world scenario is it 90% of the skill set.
FullMetal_55@reddit
Well there are two kinds of people in this industry I've worked with both of them. One belongs in the datacentre far from human contact. Ops coworkers are those kind of people. What is bad is when they're in a front facing position and have to deal with people. I worked with a guy who you could sit down Ina cubicle with 100 switches and routers he'd have them all configured and ready for deployment in no time. Put him in a meeting and he'd question every decision call management stupid to their face for asking a question like "is this possible why or why not? He also wasn't allowed near production networks. He'd just unplug a whole switch middle of the day causing an outage and not even bat an eye. Yes he won't advance yes he doesn't really want to. He is a happy worker when he doesn't deal with people. The key I've found is to weed out those people and keep them in technical roles ane for Pete's sake never let them near a customer.
bnlf@reddit
I tell this to my team all the time. We’re in consulting. If you can’t communicate properly to clients, they won’t trust anything you say no matter how good technically they are.
Cupelix14@reddit
Spot on. IT positions are not often devoid of communication, whether it's management, or users. Soft skills can be the difference between you being a valued employee, or "the crabby IT person who is condescending to users and holds back management initiatives". Soft skills help you build relationships, and good relationships can be leveraged in many ways.
Geminii27@reddit
Like "Let's replace all the mainframes with chocolate custard!" levels of initiative?
Cupelix14@reddit
I mean, that sounds like a delicious initiative I'd be down for.
Seriously though. Having an adversarial relationship with management does you no favors. Not saying it's easy--you need to have the skills and there is an art to it. But you can come away from that discussion with both an agreement to not replace things with chocolate, and management having a good impression of you.
Lucky_Foam@reddit
You are correct. I spend most of my day in meetings doing non-tech work.
Out of a 8 hour work day. I maybe do 1 hour of tech work.
uptimefordays@reddit
It's funny because above a certain level, everyone has both soft skills and technical skills. There's only so far folks can go without interpersonal skills.
DrFlutterChii@reddit
There's also only so far some folks want to go. Most people got into tech because they care about that 10% technical ability, and every time you get promoted the job swings further and further into being a people-person job. If I wanted to spend all of my time selling, I'd go into sales and sell shit to people instead of trying to sell objectively valuable projects to executives. At least in sales you get a cut.
uptimefordays@reddit
Even on the individual contributor path, once you move beyond basic tasks like break fix, you’ll be working on systems with teams. In such cases, effective communication across teams becomes essential.
SphericalCrusher@reddit
Depends on the level of course.. but 10% technical is a bit too low imo. I agree with the sentiment though. The ability to be able to learn new things is also huge… and seemingly lacking from many in my experience.
mvbighead@reddit
10% is way too low for me. It's gotta be 50/50, and quite possibly 70/30 in favor of technical over soft. Soft skills are important, but you can do well with less than perfect soft skills and a VERY good set of technical skills.
Hell, I know a network engineer who is extremely good at what he does. He also is likely on the spectrum and struggles with eye contact and conversation, and not by a small amount. Good colleagues can work with him and know the quality of the person they are working with, despite the fact that he does not have the best soft skills.
Centimane@reddit
I spend less than 5% of my day in meetings. Soft skills are useful but I could be a competent asshole and it'd probably still work. I would argue any individual contributor is at least 70% technical 30% soft. In management the ratio starts to increase for soft skills depending on their management level though.
But anyone 90% soft and 10% technical is management, probably a couple rings up management.
ra__account@reddit
There are some senior level IC roles that involve very little hands on keyboards work. I don't do any of the management stuff like leave reports and annual reviews but I directly oversee the technical work of 20-30 people and interface them with a few dozen more. They're rare but do exist.
Centimane@reddit
Then you aren't an "individual contributor" and are managing people. Managing people is about directing them, not HR shenanigans.
Harry_Bolsagna@reddit
Agreed. Im so sick of seeing this opinion parroted. Ive been in this field 20 years. I can count on one hand the number of IT people ive worked with whos social skills were bad enough to be problematic.
Its far more common to have someone who cant do any ANYTHING without having their hand held. The fact that the same person cant describe what theyre doing is usually a side effect of not having a clue.
mvbighead@reddit
I'll be honest, I've worked with all sorts. Technical ability is probably the widest range of things I have seen, where as the soft skills I'd say the bulk of guys have at least good enough bare minimum, and plenty have at least average to above average soft skills. Only IT workers in some of the more rough industries where working around other rougher types might have less than desirable soft skills. And for the most part, everyone I have been around acclimates to the environment reasonably well enough.
Skill wise though? That's what gets people noticed from their managers/etc. If you never work and resolve tickets, that gets noticed. If you resolve complex tasks. That gets noticed.
If you want to get into management... sure the soft skills have more importance. But boots on the ground? Bare minimum soft skill is sufficient. Technical skill is 100% required... especially for upward mobility.
RCG73@reddit
My very first ‘management position’ was one where my job was “dear god don’t ever let anyone on the team ever have to communicate with anyone outside the team we don’t need the fallout”. They were all undeniably brilliant, and not even assholes or antagonistic. Just completely socially unaware is the best way I can put it. I learned a lot, both hard and soft skills in that 6 month project but I’d never do it again.
Johnny_BigHacker@reddit
Yea, wtf. If someone is a great talker but system can do basic tasks they are toast.
You have to interview well and also have at least baseline skills.
Cooleb09@reddit
I think we like to think that way, but we all know those people who are kind of useless but consistently fail upwards or coast because they can play office politics/socialite well.
Its easy to be jaded when you're better technically but you see such types surpass you because they just 'play the game' better.
sryan2k1@reddit
lol, have you never worked anywhere? That is very clearly not true in most places, unfortunately.
Johnny_BigHacker@reddit
Yea, I'm on my 7th employer over a 20 year career.
The worst teammates/coworkers are the ones who don't do anything at all even if they have the skills, but the next worst are the ones who don't do anything because they lack the skills and take little to no proactive steps to learn them.
Broad-Celebration-@reddit
The 10% technical is pretty accurate for tier1 support.
The most consistent positive feedback i get on techs are for the guys who have a 10/10 personality , try their best, but take hours to resolve issues that could take me 10 minutes.
JonnyLay@reddit
I think for management and leads it's about right. You still need the tech knowledge, but you're mostly using the soft skills by that stage. And relying on your specialists to either be experts, or be able to follow instructions.
SphericalCrusher@reddit
Right; it depends on the role level. I’m talking general SysAdmin, which I agree needs to be a lot more skilled… or a desire to learn.
GoogleDrummer@reddit
I feel I've been under qualified for every job I've had, but I got them based on my soft skills.
GhoastTypist@reddit
Absolutely.
I won't go into detail but I'm noticing a lack of soft skills within my team and the issues we constantly run into within the department always seem to stem from miscommunication. I'm constantly having to correct misinformation coming from my T1-T2 techs, when I explain to them how they miscommunicated they respond with "I know this, thats exactly what I said" when its not. They think thats what they said but what the non-technical employee's heard is completely opposite.
Just recently we had a group discussion and I had laid out a plan in front of 15 non-technical people and I had one of those T1-T2 team members in the call with us. I simplified the language so non-technical people could follow, all 15 non-technical people understood the plan, the T1-T2 person struggled to follow along and said it was too technical to follow, so they don't know how the other staff would understand. We did a follow up and all the non-technical staff fully understood how I communicated.
They did the cert program with no communication courses to go along with it, I did I think 5 different communication courses in my 2 year college program. It definitely helps when it comes to being a functioning member of the workforce. You can have all the technical skills in the world but if you can't communicate, might as well be using sign language in font of someone who has never learned it.
End0rphinJunkie@reddit
You can build the slickest kubernetes pipeline in the world but it means zero if you cant explain to the dev teams why they should use it. Getting stakeholder buy in is always the hardest deploymnt.
CubicleRaider@reddit
I preach that to new hires. Some just think they will only need to send chats, emails and remote in. That is not what makes you successful. Smiling, joking and then fixing the issue gets you remembered
Geminii27@reddit
I mean, assuming you want to be remembered...
CordlessOrange@reddit
I once had a conversation with a colleague about why I got paid more, and they really didn’t like the answer - “because I don’t suck to work with dude”
He was brilliant, but couldn’t put his ego aside to explain anything to anyone. The kind of person that was like “well I guess we’ll go ask him if we really have to”
I regularly had to step into meetings with him and clients because things would get tense for really no reason.
Yes you need to be technically proficient, but you also have to meet the bare minimum of social standards of you’re going to have a bad time.
Geminii27@reddit
Might have been a bonus from his point of view, if he didn't like being interrupted 20 times a day.
ErikTheEngineer@reddit
I've been doing the tech thing for 30 years in various roles now. When I started (mid-late 90s,) companies did accept at least some lack of social skills because computers were sorcery and we mustn't upset the cantankerous wizards.
These days, the number of places willing to put up with this is way down. In addition, you have to be someone that the company will accept the trade-off of working with. Increasingly, this is reserved for true genius level people. If you're that person then good on you, but I sure know I'm not. Big Tech and hedge funds seem to be the only places who will openly take anti-social people as long as their level of genius outweighs the difficulty in working with them. And we're not talking helpdesk or tech support, we're talking about hardcore low level developers or math Ph.D.'s building products or doing complex trading to make the company millions a year.
I've never been the most tech-savvy person in the room; I tend to pick things up as I need them. But, I've been able to get to a good place career-wise with fundamental knowledge, troubleshooting skills and being pleasant to work with. It goes a lot further than people think, and hardcore tech skills matter less as you grow in responsibility.
Lv_InSaNe_vL@reddit
As another person who has done this for a long time, I am so glad companies have stopped putting up with the "weird loner" stereotype for IT guys.
Like I get it, were all nerds and a lot of us have other things going on. But I'm so glad that it's reasonable for me to be like "okay dude you have to actually be professional" to techs these days.
Tsiox@reddit
I would have said that you get the job because of technical ability, you keep the job with your soft skills.
Tymanthius@reddit
I would disagree w/ the percentages assigned, but yes, softskills are why people like me over collogues. Why I've gotten hired at at least 2 of my jobs.
If you're technical, you'll learn the tech part of any job you jump into. But the soft skills can be harder to learn if they don't come easily to you. And its worth putting effort into not just b/c they will help you on the job, but they will help you with personal relationships, be it friends, family, kids, romantic partners.
listastih20@reddit
Technical skills are often what get you through the door, but soft skills are what make people want to work with you, trust you, and keep bringing you into opportunities.
A lot of people underestimate how much being able to communicate clearly, stay calm, read the room, and make other people feel understood matters. Those skills compound in every part of life, not just work.
ResisterImpedant@reddit
I wish it had helped me.
MBILC@reddit
Absolutely this..
There is a reason that people tend to not interact with "IT", because they created their own stereo typical labels of being the people who sit in dark rooms alone with no one else and you only know they are alive because they answer an email or DM, seldom would they come out or interact.
Then the few who may come out, but then treat everyone as if they are idiots, not understanding, not everyone lives and breaths tech 24/7 and geeks out with a home lab all weekend instead of going out and meeting actual people...
As much as I love being alone to do my thing, being "personable" (I've been told) certainly has gotten me to where I am now in my career.
Nightcinder@reddit
at least 70% is critical thinking
badaccount99@reddit
So... not that unless you're just out of college and doing helpdesk stuff.
As you get older soft skills are super important and kids just out of school lack them. But technical skills are still super important too.
You want to be a developer or sysadmin for the rest of your life? Yeah, skip the talking thing. Want to be in charge of the developers or sysadmins? It's a slightly different job, but pays 4x as much. It's not Dev, Ops or Talking all of the time. But I do it in a remote job and make a living. So you're wrong.
That smart talker who uses AI for everything is getting fired next week though unless you're at a crappy company like Oracle who files 30k people at a time. But at my place? You'd get recognized as a fake in day 1.
Mrhiddenlotus@reddit
If every IT department was like this, business would collapse.
cptjpk@reddit
That’s any job where you want to move into senior roles.
XenonFyre@reddit
Bingo. Technical knowledge can be instilled in anyone, developing people skills is a deliberate voice.
You are the liaison between systems and users. You’ll succeed better if you’re fluent— in both
RickRussellTX@reddit
I used to run a university help desk. To this day, I get notes on LinkedIn and Facebook from my former student employees bemoaning that modern software engineering is so much like working at the help desk — 90%+ managing people and expectations.
DDisired@reddit
This is the case with pretty much all jobs. I've only been working for 10 years, but the people I like and are willing to write great reviews were those that didn't start off technical, but willing to learn and do the work.
I've found technical abilities are easier to teach/mentor compared to discipline, curiosity, learning, and drive. I've worked with some brilliant engineers that were closed off, and while they did decent work and documented most of their work, the rest of the lack of knowledge they shared meant that when they inevitably moved on, we basically have to re-learn what they did. But someone who was more proactive usually schedules a meeting and compiles a list of things to be aware of, instead of us trying to pull it out of them.
ka-splam@reddit
Yeah, not because "learn soft skills" is bad advice, but because this is yet another "jerking myself off in public about how I'm better than everyone" empty post.
Great, thanks for the contribution, OP.
And how did this actually help you (OP), given that you and they all ended up in the same meeting at the same company on the same team?
rio_sk@reddit
90% tech buzzwords and 10% skills, if you are in the upper levels of the pyramid
Xzenor@reddit
Have you ever considered that people may not want to go that far?
"Going far" generally means leaving a tech team. Becoming some manager.. thanks but I'll pass. I'll stick to the stuff (tech) that I actually like to do
sryan2k1@reddit
Not always. Plenty of technical managers or just moving up the ranks on the IC side.
420GB@reddit
It depends on the position, some are as high as 50/50 split I'd say. Maybe it also depends on the country and culture, I'm not in the US.
DaprasDaMonk@reddit
I 100% agree you could know close to nothing about all these computer concepts on practice but if you can speak it you are going to go way farther I agree
under_ice@reddit
This is the answer.
maximumtesticle@reddit
No, it's not.
seamonkey420@reddit
if you want to advance that is. ;)
HeKis4@reddit
I'd argue 50% foundational principles, 40% soft skills, 10% actual tech skills.
I can't recite the syntax for T-SQL's BACKUP DATABASE or the pgdump utility but I sure know what they do, why you should use it and the "agnostic" best practices for backups.
Suaveman01@reddit
As a manager or 1st line support that may be the case. As an Engineer/Architect I spend atleast 80% of my day doing technical work, writing documentation and creating designs.
sryan2k1@reddit
Unless you own your own company and have no coworkers or customers everything you do has to interact with someone else. You've completely missed the point.
Suaveman01@reddit
I certainly haven’t missed the point. I’m not saying soft skills aren’t needed in the role, but your assessment of working in IT is 10% technical and 90% soft is just outright wrong for most people. As a manager you probably spend a lot of time talking to customers, but as someone who actually has technical work to do most of my day isn’t spent talking about it to people, it’s actually doing it.
OneSeaworthiness7768@reddit
They did not say you’ll spend 10% of your time on technical work vs soft skills. It’s more about which has more impact on your ability to get hired/succeed/advance. This is the kind of point you’d expect from the low soft skills bunch.
Harry_Bolsagna@reddit
Great soft skills on display here. I’d so love to work with you
Suaveman01@reddit
Again that’s just plain wrong. If you’ve got very little technical ability you won’t make it any further than help desk. We don’t work in an industry where bullshitters thrive, this isn’t a sales job.
OneSeaworthiness7768@reddit
They didn’t say technical ability at a 10% knowledge level either. Again you’re failing to parse their meaning.
sryan2k1@reddit
*wooosh*
Dimens101@reddit
Ah your one of those.
ciabattabing16@reddit
Look no further than the rants about process, red tape, meaningless meetings, status reports, endless JIRA and ticket system shit....
I get it. No one is arguing that they provide any value in most cases. But. That IS what you're being paid for. Not the technical achievements. The better you get at the corporate crap, the better your job experience, and pay, will be. Ever wonder why idiots seem to constantly go above you in an org chart? This is why. They're great at corporate. Probably store all their important shit in Recycling and Outlook Trash too.
Potato-9@reddit
You're tech skills are only as good as your social skills is a good way to put it. You can't just play with cool stuff in the basement if they won't let you in the basement.
lesusisjord@reddit
My first boss after the military told me that being personable and always being ready/offering to help ensures success in any field or job.
I always have the “customer service” persona on at work anyway and I make sure to do enough to create a reputation of alway ready to help. I take on more work and offer to do stuff after hours when I have nothing else going on so that when I need time to myself, I can say no without it affecting that perception of me.
badaz06@reddit
100% this is a huge requirement. I am the king of analogies. HR folks aren't going to understand bits and bytes, packets and frames. But you can convey the concepts.
I'd say this applies not only to users, but upwards to management and customers as well.
Key_Pace_2496@reddit
In my experience it's 99% soft skills 1% technical skills based on how some of my coworkers are. You can get away with knowing almost nothing from end users or management if they like you.
osmiumblue66@reddit
Seconded. When I started my IT career, the most important lesson was the ability to build bridges and communicate with clients.
If one thinks they can get into IT because they won't have to deal with people, I have a rude awakening to share...
Acheronian_Rose@reddit
It absolutely is, especially once you get into IT management. Soft skills and the ability to make a team work well together can carry you far in a career
danfirst@reddit
Spot on, they also seem like the the people who are baffled when someone newer gets promoted over them when they are less technically solid. Soft skills are a huge deal.
Reasonable-Earth-490@reddit
You hit the nail on the head. The complete inability to communicate is a worrying trend, and it all stems from defaulting to phones/computers to get the answer, instead of stopping, asking around, writing down what the actual problem is and trying to figure things out. This then helps with communication in meetings/calls. AI is only going to make it worse..
G00dSh0tJans0n@reddit
Bro half of us are autistic. it's why we end up stranded in lower rungs of the ladders: fantastic at fixing and building things, lack the personally to get promoted. Become too good and your job and they can't promote you. Be good with people but clueless; easily fail your way up the ladder. It's why there's always complete morons at management levels.
Garble7@reddit
I went with friend who wanted to buy a computer for his son. He took a his family in, I refuse to speak to salesmen because I know what I’m looking for, but they start talking to one about a computer. This salesman starts spitting out options and giving them brand names and terms that even I find weird he’s saying to them “this board has pcie 5.0, and this other board only has 4.0, but it has 2 m2 slots, and if you want you can get the 5609 rtx, but it’s gigapuxel count isn’t as high as this other card. Blah blah blah
Dude needs to chill and just states basics
SusAdmin42@reddit
You’re correct, but advice should be offered. I don’t think people are socially stunted on purpose.
IWantToSayThisToo@reddit
Some of them aren't. But some definitely are. Their identity is tied to the persona they play.
renegadecanuck@reddit
Yeah, there's this idea that "you can't teach social skills" and that's just not true. Sometimes there are limitations, and the person has to be willing to learn, but it's absolutely something you can teach.
Whitestrake@reddit
Ask an autistic person if it's possible to learn social skills!
I suspect most people think it's not possible because they picked up their skills unconsciously and wouldn't know how to teach or learn (or unlearn if necessary) any of those skills.
Geminii27@reddit
Exactly. Explain social processes clearly and anyone with good technical skills should be able to pick it up and extrapolate.
MDParagon@reddit
Agreed, I had to meet someone a Senior Delivery Manager who was former socially awkward nerd to tell me I'm a socially awkward nerd and fix my shit
Him orchestrating projects and meetings was always a sight to behold, it's like he reads minds
fantompwer@reddit
It takes training, practice and learning to gain social skills but it happens so unstructured that people don't understand that it's happening.
suddenlyreddit@reddit
I was told a version of this a long time ago by a manager pointing out another managers mistake. "People aren't born to be managers. It's the stupid ones that don't get training or knowledge on how to lead people that make the rest of us look bad." And as I've shifted to a senior role: train your people. Train them on knowledge you have. Send them to training. Pull them under your wing and show them things even outside their day-to-day work.
If someone on your team can't communicate, provide them with tips and training on how to do it better. Offer to be a sounding board for them and work through it. Show them your process to prepare for a meeting or talk or presentation. People are not just born to do it, and IT skills don't present challenges to do that often.
Geno0wl@reddit
And that isn't even to mention that you are seemingly much more likely to run into socially awkward people in STEM fields.
r0ndr4s@reddit
This is literally you on another post:
"I work in IT. Junior techs will often ping me with questions about tickets. I often use the phrase “all of the information is in the ticket.” Pseudo quoting taskmaster."
I don't need to know you, to know that you also don't know how to speak in meetings or properly redact tickets. Because I live this shit on a daily, the one complaining the most about communication is usually the worst offender at it.
theMightBoop@reddit (OP)
Always disturbing when someone starts digging through your post history just to get at you. Taskmaster is a comedy show and that’s a joke. Come on man, get some perspective.
ImHereCuzTheyWrong@reddit
No not soft skills, my greatest weakness after technical skills!!!
Reaction-Consistent@reddit
Every IT professional should start out their career working in retail sales
AnDanDan@reddit
Corpo speak is it's own skill; being diplomatic is it's own skill; making people feel heard is it's own skill. As a problem solver you gotta know when to bite your tongue, and how to help whoever youre dealing with come away with a positive opinion, or at least assuage their fears while you try and figure out how the fuck to fix the problem.
Many people dont do any sort of indepth technical work, and wont be able to relate to yours. Your skills in communication are the way for them to get through to your technical skills.
Ummgh23@reddit
I have ADHD, social anxiety and very likely am on the spectrum but I‘m trying ._.
Any-Fly5966@reddit
Social anxiety is a bitch. Some of us are fortunate enough to have learned how to deal with it or aren't stricken enough with it to where it majorly affects career growth. People seem to forget that not everyone thinks like you, acts like you, and has the same mental hurdles that you do. Minimizing someone by saying things like "I don't get why you just don't speak!". You're right, you don't. And I don't understand why you don't stfu, so what now?
Ummgh23@reddit
I don't have anything to add other than I agree wholeheartely
spin81@reddit
Hey good on you and I agree with OP but also feel like you're not the sort of person OP is talking about. All anyone can ask of you is to do your best. I don't have any of those things but if everyone who had trouble expressing themselves did what you do, which is try, my life would be a lot less frustrating.
If you can afford to, I encourage you to see a mental health professional. Perhaps they can offer insight into how you differ from less neurodivergent people so you can have some tools to become less socially anxious - possibly lessening the ND symptoms leading to a spiral that is positive for a change. Source: I don't have any of that stuff but I've got some other stuff.
Hope you're not feeling too bad or the above made you feel a little less bad.
Ummgh23@reddit
Oh I've been in therapy for most of my adult life, but I‘m afraid I‘m just insanely predisposed to all sorts of mental issues that don't seem to go away no matter how hard I try.
I hate that I always come across as the grumpy guy when in reality I just can‘t show any positive emotions to others even if I wanted to. I'd love to connect with people beyond a surface level and learn more about them.
Medication at least makes me function enough to work so that I can afford to live.
But by now I think I just have to accept that I lost the gene lottery (As evident by my slew of physical issues along with the mental ones) and will always be an unhappy person. At least I usually don‘t feel sad anymore because I guess I‘m too tired? Not sure if feeling dead inside is better though 🙃
itsboilingoil@reddit
Why do the wack ones think they get paid to be annoyed that other people who don’t get paid to do their job aren’t doing their job? Why are they employed?
Anybackup@reddit
I agree. If one is unable to clearly express their needs, the efficiency of work progress will definitely decrease.
Secret_Account07@reddit
My biggest complaint is all the folks who need to jump on a call for an issue. It’s like they are incapable or too lazy to type out an email or ticket.
So I jump on a call and they are throwing all these IPs and server names at me and I’m having to transpose and investigate everything with folks sitting with dead air while interrupting me while I’m trying to focus.
People need to learn to write stuff down. All the developers I work with always hit me with “can I call you” then explain all this stuff over a call. Like I have no idea what the issue is…. I’m talking to you. Do you want me to look into it or sit here on a call lol
TheJesusGuy@reddit
I get cold video called and expected to immediately fix an issue
agent-squirrel@reddit
Yeah, nah, fuck that noise. If someone cold calls me (we have 8k+ staff so it's likely some random) they are getting the call dumped.
TheJesusGuy@reddit
Only 50 users here so I know every one of them
Geminii27@reddit
Why isn't your boss telling them to lodge a ticket like everyone else?
johor@reddit
I'm really busy, can you please just call me?
JerkyChew@reddit
It goes both ways, though - I work with some people who would rather hide behind an email or ticket and turn a 5-minute fix into a 2-week ordeal. I'm literally doing it right now and browsing Reddit while I wait for their reply.
jleahul@reddit
My first major-incident bridge call as a newbie had 5 managers and 2 techs (me and my SME colleague).
My job quickly morphed to running interference (aka communicating updates) on the managers while my colleague dropped off so that he could actually focus on troubleshooting instead of answering inane questions every 30 seconds.
RikiWardOG@reddit
bro, having to deal with this in a minute. I explained the options we have very clearly. only 2 options about printing on a guest network we have. The response I get, can you swing by my office to discuss.... There's nothing to discuss. Literally, just pick 1 of the 2 options.
Secret_Account07@reddit
It’s frustrating isn’t it?
The other problem I run into is referring back to information when they didn’t write anything down. So essentially I have 20 minutes of words and now I have to document all of it. If I have to hand off issue to 2nd shift or another engineer? Good luck! Person couldn’t be bothered to document the issue.
With my position I only work with other IT folks as consumers. So it’s much better than typical helpdesk end users who don’t follow any processes, but developers are the absolute worst lol. Idk why but they are always so bad with this. Always has to be a call.
I’ve gotten to the point where I just say I’m unable to do a call. I don’t say I’m unable because I don’t want to but still. Certain folks have learned.
Calls are great for complex issues where you need input from multiple folks investigating a major issue in real time. Other than that- type out the issue!
Kadaknath888@reddit
I know someone who got promoted from a defunct PR position to basically the supervisory DevOps position for the whole office (more like the only IT position for that office). No IT or programming background, can't even setup a simple network, basically relegates the task. And if there's no one to relegate the task, the dude outsources it. Around five years a new office chief from comes in and wants the dude to develop systems, because the same position from the new chief's previous office actually knows their job. Dude resigned. His replacement was basically the same, but with IT background, basic home networking skills, but still can't code. They relegated the system development to a temp worker. That was some good bullshitting.
BroaxXx@reddit
Especially in the world of LLMs and all of this disruptions people should really understand the value of soft skills such as communication.
Decaf_GT@reddit
You're addressing a subreddit that thinks that having "https://nohello.net/" as their status message is a socially acceptable, definitely not passive-aggressive way of communication.
narcissisadmin@reddit
Be that as it may, the people who say "hello" and just sit there are using chat wrong.
spin81@reddit
Sure but - and I know this attempt might be futile looking at your username - there's having that opinion, and then there's putting nohello.net in your status message.
spin81@reddit
This right here. Also learn to listen. If there's one thing I hate it's talking to people only to find that they're not listening to a word I've said all conversation. This happens to me several times a week.
This combined with what you're talking about means I have to find myself asking a question only to be met with stuff that if it isn't meaningless nonsense, it doesn't answer my question either.
It's even worse when it happens in writing. Especially in a ticket. Can we blame our users for our bad reputation if our coworkers literally can't read or write at an adult level and yet chose to accept a job answering tickets?
My buddy is getting into IT from a wholly unrelated field, and he figured his best leg up into the business was to start at a service desk. I was like absolutely, and also you will stick out like a sore thumb in the best possible way if you are able to open a ticket or email, and then read what it says and not read what it doesn't say. It's extremely depressing that this is true, but like half a year in he knows exactly what I meant when I told him that.
Late_for_Supper_@reddit
ummmm and literally. Extra unwanted words.
Ok_Prune_1731@reddit
I thought we all picked IT so we could avoid people? Was that just me?
That being said I do agree with you but this is when I refer to the managers. Managers should be the ones articulating things not Individual contributors.
bbqwatermelon@reddit
There was a guy who on paper was the strongest candidate for a manager overseeing the network team. He was escorted out of the building doubletime and I later found out he kept using a hard R work. For a job in health care with a brain injury campus. Some peoples kids 🤦♀️
0xdeadbeef6@reddit
I refuse speak good. End user not understand deadbeef when deadbeef speak good. Ooga
deep8787@reddit
This comes to mind lol
Diamondo25@reddit
Cafebabe got baadf00d, now she deadbeef. Me sad :-(
No_Resolution_9252@reddit
Ok Karen.
astray488@reddit
Had to brief senior officers in the Army for many years regularly. I learned this the hard way. A lot of "So, what does that mean?" kind of questions after I'd explain something.
Had to learn to give an ELI5 explanation on demand. Short, sweet, to the the point (with tact). This soft skill is born of experience, and practicing the Feynman Technique yourself, offline.
And yeah, never assume they're totally ignorant or fully knowledgeable. Also, they LOVE simple visual diagrams and pictures to illustrate a point. Gets a lot of that "Ohhhh!" realizations in my experience and thumbs-up of approval.
Geminii27@reddit
I mean... did you want HR to be hiring sysadmins on their ability to schmooze rather than have any technical skills?
Drakoolya@reddit
One of the things I hate about working in IT. Some are so defensive, can't have a conversation without them taking it personally, especially over Dm's and emails. I make it a point to have conversations in person with these people. It can be so exhausting sometimes.
Charlie_Vanderkat@reddit
I spent part of my career as a Solution Architect for a very large IT company. I have (had) a strong technical background and a good understanding of business requirements and motivation.
Most of my job was translator - helping the inarticulate IT guys who were unwilling to look or think outside their comfort zone to understand what customers wanted, what was important to our business, and vice versa.
This was a while back, articulating IT issues in a way that people in the business will understand is critical for success. Similarly, it helps business a lot if they understand the constraints of IT and the cost and time trade offs.
The divide between business and IT was huge in many businesses. Probably still is. Building a relationship of understanding makes everyone's life so much easier.
minus_minus@reddit
Ok. I’m gonna have to stop you right there. Lol
noisyboy@reddit
Sometimes they know that the point has been decided, blabbering more won't change anything and are just waiting for the charade to be over so that they can get some actual work done in the scraps of remaining time left after the dumb meetings have gobbled good chuck of the whole day up.
And then the clueless humbug opens his mouth and let's it drag on. Sometimes. Ok, more often than a few times.
ilyas-inthe-cloud@reddit
Hard truth and one hundred percent accurate. I've seen incredibly talented engineers stall out because they couldn't explain what they built to anyone outside their team. The ones who moved up weren't necessarily better technically, they just knew how to frame a problem and pitch a solution in language leadership actually understood. It's not about being a great public speaker either, it's about being clear and direct.
badaccount99@reddit
I hate hate hate saying this. But some of our co-workers or contractors say "Do the Needful" and I in return feel like a racist a-hole for judging them. Like so many of them have done that to me not knowing what the needful is! So a smart person asking that is lost on me.
EhNobodyhuh@reddit
Sorry not sorry having autism is a blessing and a curse.
Squeezer999@reddit
a lot of times the best way to further or maintain your career is to STFU. At my last employer I would speak up and I think that put a target on me that led me to being laid off
Prestigious-Past6268@reddit
Why get upset when someone comes to you with a request that can be resolved by Googling. If you look up the answer right in front of the person, tell them you did that in a polite way, then explain the response to them in a kind manner the will leave your office feeling smarter and empowered and like the have an ally on the IT team.
Many in this forum like to vent about the dumb employee that wastes our time. Those folks can be the reason you get raises and new opportunities to shine.
Aedankerr@reddit
Please provide some context to what they where doing.
Aedankerr@reddit
I for one have a speech impediment, So I can’t fucking talk. But I can write a good email.
MairusuPawa@reddit
I know how to speak already, thanks. I still will not suck the c-levels' collective dick when they are complete idiots.
Narcoleptic_247@reddit
One of the biggest keys to getting a job is not being fucking weird.
chillzatl@reddit
uhm.... so we're going to roll out this uhm... new application. uhm... it's going to uhm.. change how we uhm.. do things. So uhm... we'll have more info to uhm... share when we get uhm... closer to rolling it out...
grumpyoldadmin@reddit
I know this person! Someone once said "it takes them 45 minutes to tell a knock knock joke"..
gingerbeard1775@reddit
put a c in front of all your uhms and that will do the trick. Follow me for more.
FeedTheADHD@reddit
Instructions unclear, I kept saying "c uhms" and everyone thought I was trying to pitch a SIEM.
NlactntzfdXzopcletzy@reddit
I really don't understand this post, because this is the kind of thing I'm assuming OP is talking about, and the people who say this stuff are always business side people, never IT.
Cranapplesause@reddit
You forgot: WHAT NOT.
I listen to some of the people speak on my team and it can be painful.
Not saying I am always perfect. Our company has been acquiring smaller companies and I’ve had to do some mass training on different things we use. It’s interesting to me that in Grade School days I couldn’t talk in front of classes but in the business world, it doesn’t bother me.
apophis27983@reddit
I uhm all the time. Doesn't bother me when others do it and I could care less if it bothers other people.
reserved_seating@reddit
There is more in that statement that is a problem besides uhminf every couple of words.
apophis27983@reddit
Do what now?
reserved_seating@reddit
There is one letter that is a typo. I have faith that you can figure it out.
apophis27983@reddit
I don't understand your whole statement.
reserved_seating@reddit
I’m saying the uhming isn’t the issue so much as the person not actually relaying any information at all.
apophis27983@reddit
It's a way to pause and think.
chillzatl@reddit
I'd be shocked if you did it yourself but were also bothered by others doing it. Just know that there's a sizable portion of people that die inside any time they listen to you speak.
apophis27983@reddit
That's okay.
OmenVi@reddit
I feel like sometimes some of this is a cue to people that you are still talking, so those impatient folks who like to cut other people off keep their mouth shut while you finish your thought.
acniv@reddit
Yup. Makes me cringe every time.
Zatetics@reddit
My job is like 80% technical skills, 20% soft skills. Some of y'all must be in awful jobs having to deal with people that much. Sorry to hear that.
whitoreo@reddit
The lead network architect where I work, consistently uses the word "supposably".
NlactntzfdXzopcletzy@reddit
I've seen the people that I would get to work with if I advanced my career.
I'll stay where I'm at.
LastTechStanding@reddit
Haha mgmt, politics, backstabbing, and trampling on people to get ahead… yeah… no thanks
Regular-Nebula6386@reddit
There’s also the other half that won’t stop talking and repeat themselves over and over without adding anything meaningful to the conversation. I have found myself asking them to let others speak.
Smiles_OBrien@reddit
This has been my big personal hurdle.
I generally get good reviews from my boss but that was a big sticking point. I (unironically, need to get tested for it) think I have ADHD, and for me there's a lot of trying to make sure I'm being understood which leads to overexplaining. I also get REALLY annoyed when someone talks over me because I lose my train of thought easily...and Ironically find myself jumping in on people because I'm worried I'll lose my train of thought and forget to bring up something while someone else is talking.
It's something I've been actively working on. Lots of "hand up, crossed fingers" as a reminder to myself to hold onto that thought for dear life.
bxk21@reddit
Overexplaining, ah my old enemy. It triggers when I feel judged, which happens when I think I'm making a fool of myself in a meeting.
I counteract this by planning what I'm gonna say beforehand. Even having an unformatted list of points I need to hit helps a ton.
JosephRW@reddit
This took some time from me as well. Years, really. You need to know at a certain point when the rope is on the other side of the line and when people didn't listen to you when it was their responsibility to pay attention and ask questions and fucked themselves over for it.
There is a balance to strike here, don't miss that transition.
w1ten1te@reddit
I keep a notepad doc open during discussions so I can write down any points that I want to bring up when there's a natural pause where I can take a turn. Don't rely on your short term memory to hold everything. Paper doesn't forget.
ipostatrandom@reddit
Tbf, this is just a common trait among certain ppl in meetings, not just IT.
But yes, annoying.
Tetha@reddit
For me, this has actually led to a different conondrum. Sometimes, respecting the silence of deep though right. Sometimes, respecting a thought from a person is right.
But sometimes, just talking over and bulldozing through bullshit is also necessary.
Vocal training helps there though. I can be louder than you are longer than you.
EyeDontSeeAnything@reddit
I deal with a lot of talk at me and not talk with me folks, especially in project management. It wastes a lot of time and energy
SAugsburger@reddit
This. Speak up when you need to make the team aware of things, but don't keep going in circles on a topic that we already talked to death or would be better for a smaller meeting. Bringing something up that only needs 2-3 people involved shouldn't grind a larger meeting
NoPossibility4178@reddit
Kinda force to repeat yourself if you keep explain and getting the same questions...
PositiveBubbles@reddit
The most common one i kept getting was "why?" "But why" "but why? I don't know how much more I can aver why to "Policy was determined by cyber security team, please ask them" lol
Ohgodwatdoplshelp@reddit
The rambling glazers are the words. Knew a technical manager that could eat up 10 min of a meeting answering a yes or no question. Eventually they stopped asking him questions and would go to his staff, instead.
labalag@reddit
I see you've met some of my managers.
z_agent@reddit
I was helping a Jnr who is stepping up. He was presenting a change request at our CAB. In the end I had to message him over teams and just say.....now you just close your mouth. I dont think he had ever had a chance to speak in a meeting before and took any silence as meaning he was meant to fill it.
Combining that with the people (Middle managers and paper pushers) who are often in our change meetings the takeaway for him was you dont need to keep talking, that is how you start getting questions.......
ipreferanothername@reddit
I interviewed at citrix a few years ago, didnt get the job, but i had a great talk with the hiring manager who interviewed me. I asked about something that helped their career and got pointed to a book
"crucial conversations" - its about how you deliver your message to people. one of the authors has a bit on youtube that might be worth watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc3ARpccRwQ
its not just about your communication - its also about TAKING IN other peoples communication, understanding their point of view a little bit. i have some very technically smart coworkers who dont get any of that at all, just that they communicate and hate everyone. smh.
TN_man@reddit
You realize this industry has a lot of neurodiversity
Og-Morrow@reddit
I have very good soft skills, man I am tied if using them.
Just shut up, let me get on with it and pay me. God dam so many have become very thick and disinterested.
It was not always this way.
SecludedExtrovert@reddit
This.
Og-Morrow@reddit
Fancy getting stoned?
AHrubik@reddit
This is the new "pick up the phone and call someone" isn't it?
No-Fan-2237@reddit
I'm nice. I can write and format an email well. Hell, I can even explain an issue well over email. If you ask me what's wrong in person I'm a stuttering mess. I don't know why I'm like this lol.
Legitimate_Face_227@reddit
The gap between what's in your head and what actually comes out is a real thing it's just an untrained muscle. Start practicing out loud, even alone. I use Articulate for this specifically. The more reps you put in, the more natural it gets in real conversations.
Generico300@reddit
Yeah, if you want to go far in this field, learn to talk like a salesman or executive manager. Don't concern yourself with being correct, or even reasonable. Just say everything with a confident tone and don't use qualifiers like "should" or "in theory" or anything that conveys the uncertainty inherent in complex systems. Pretend you're a business evangelist and everything you say is gospel. Then when all your bullshit comes crashing down, shift the blame to someone else, preferably below you on the totem pole.
DrunkenGolfer@reddit
~~Sitting in a meeting and just~~ I’m sitting in a meeting, and just ~~face palming~~ face-palming at some of my ~~compatriots’~~ colleagues’ inability to articulate themselves.
That is all.
DadOfRuby@reddit
I work on a team of professional writers in a high tech company. The amount of times they say "like" every other word in a sentence and have difficulty verbally expressing the most basic of thoughts is astounding. They might have technical backgrounds, but they can't communicate well at all.
SuppA-SnipA@reddit
My coworker needs to learn to say more with less, so i totally agree. They also, literally, "circle back", re iterating the same thing, he just said, with slightly different words. I've been losing patience when i hear them speak, like a health bar in a video game, slowly going down.
childishDemocrat@reddit
I counsel kids and college students on IT careers. Public speaking, technical writing, touch typing, and group projects are all off-topic subjects I recommend kids take.
Due_Peak_6428@reddit
how do i learn to speak though
Accomplished_Ad_1190@reddit
Practice. Take classes. Hire a coach. Think of it as the same as any skill that you've learned in life. If you can learn the technical skills, you can get better at the soft skills.
Due_Peak_6428@reddit
I wonder where you would find one of these coaches. Also how you confirm their skill level?
Accomplished_Ad_1190@reddit
I would look for a public speaking class at a community center or community college, or a local toastmasters group; might be a better first step than a coach.
Phreakiture@reddit
Ding!
I came here just mention Toastmasters. A number of workplaces (mine included) have Toastmasters groups right at the office that you can join, and some workplaces will even pick up the membership cost for you.
. . . but even if that isn't the case in your case, there are open chapters in the community at large, and you can seek one out.
In full disclosure: I have been a Toastmaster since 2006 minus a 7-year hiatus, and have held every officer position at the club level at least once.
HappyVlane@reddit
By doing it more. Voice your thoughts and speak to yourself about things you like. I do this constantly at home. I imagine I have a conversation with my parents, colleagues, customers, etc. and talk about whatever comes to mind.
AppearanceDouble2595@reddit
it's easier if you have a team you physically see every day lol. i used to be ona team where we were stuck in the same room basically 5 days a week for 40 hours a week (sometimes more) and naturally we just learn to talk and communicate with each other. This translates to how to talk to other departments. Just my experience. Much different now where I only see half my team in person cause everyone else is remote. not as close as we used to be and we are more specialized so the crosstalk is not as often.
OceanWaveSunset@reddit
Self-help books, YouTube, grabbing a friend of family and just practicing.
If you really want to seem natural, take a course or two of public speaking at a community college and then find a topic to go actually make a public speech.
I had to do that for my degree and as an introvert it helped me so much to just get over the fear and awkwardness of the initial stuff and get into a good flow.
Learn a few fundamental principles and do it until it becomes muscle memory.
Due_Peak_6428@reddit
Have you ever asked a friend to help you ?
OceanWaveSunset@reddit
I have never asked, no. I had work colleagues who asked and we would sit down and go back and forth.
Due_Peak_6428@reddit
I think I would get a weird look lol
OceanWaveSunset@reddit
Lol, true but no risks no rewards!
Sometimes the ability to be able to get through something weird or awkward is a skill in itself
Moontoya@reddit
Voice coaching, acting lessons, proper training on communications
All things I was lucky enough to do in various jobs
Course, nobody trains for shit today, all expected to have a masters and 5 years experience as a neophyte employee
Bwuaaa@reddit
Training, coaching, online courses, practice...
Frothyleet@reddit
...therapy...
Bwuaaa@reddit
Yes, often underrated or taboo. But nothing wrong with this.
SgtFuck@reddit
You have to just do it and improve upon it consistently. It’s awkward at first.
Ummgh23@reddit
I've been doing it for 29 years - still waiting for it to improve :')
Lustrouse@reddit
Ignore all the "self help" and "guide" crap. Just get better by doing it. Once you get a solid handle on it, then you can look to improve on specific techniques/scenarios with the help of those guides.
CuckBuster33@reddit
Just be yourself bro
Maximum_Bandicoot_94@reddit
I've met enough folks to know that being themselves is sometimes the problem.
Be yourself... as long as you do not reek of body odor or cologne so strong you announce yourself to a room 2 minutes before you enter. Be yourself... unless you are talking over people, making unwanted romantic advances on someone in the office, or blasting political opinion radio from your cube. Be yourself... unless yourself is microwaving catfish in the lunch room or burning popcorn. In any of those situations be a little less yourself.
labalag@reddit
But that guy's an asshole.
Bright_Arm8782@reddit
That only works is the self isn't a rude arrogant arse.
blofly@reddit
First, learn how to take notes for presentations.
I do it with pen and paper....it allows me get away from the tech and organize my thoughts in an outline shape. This makes it easier to do presentations when you also are sharing screens, or flipping amongst multiple windows to grab specific info.
t0c@reddit
Honestly, like all self improvement. Figure out what you're solving for, get the lay of the land. You can do this by recording yourself in meetings and reviewing it later. AI tools can get you transcripts easily. Ask someone you think speaks/writes well, and ask them for feedback. Hell, ask one of the AI tools to give you feedback.
Then there's always the RTFM. Read some books, articles, etc. See how others do it, try to imitate until you find your own way.
Once you start to pick up nuance, start thinking about your audience. What do they care about? Is it your colleague who will be reviewing your PR and he needs the nitty gritty, or is it Jen from compliance and she just needs a brief overview of what's going on and you're on it. I struggle with the last one. You can get quick feedback from the AI tools, see what the difference between what the writing styles.
And as always, practices makes better.
MaelstromFL@reddit
This is going to sound stupid, but Rotary Club! It's literally built to teach people how to speak in public!
ipostatrandom@reddit
Not on reddit, thats for sure.
code_monkey_wrench@reddit
Conversely, people who are not in IT often suck at communicating any way other than speaking.
Just look at your email inbox or teams message history.
bobdobalina@reddit
Alternative suggestion, learn to shut up. Sometimes \~\~leadership\~\~ users need to fail hard.
ThorThimbleOfGorbash@reddit
"Well--well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people."
Man-e-questions@reddit
Fr fr no cap!
Lithogiraffe@reddit
Does anyone here have any tips on how to do that?
jmnugent@reddit
I don't know if this will help any,. but I worked as an IT Sysadmin in a K-12 school district for 3 years,. and when I worked that contract, I quickly realized that how you explain computer problems to different kinds of people (High School Janitor,. to Front Office Secretaries to the Super intendant).. all need to be different ways of communicating.
Janitor may barely speak English. Trying to get them to understand why their login password expires and why that's important that they regularly change their password so they can reliably submit their timesheet.
Office Secretaries who regularly deal with Student attendance and database stuff . you can speak a bit more technically to.
Super Intendent might just want a high level overview and why you're spending so many hours of paid work on certain projects, etc.
I try to remember not to overwhelm people with technical lingo. (I try to avoid acronyms if I can). I try to keep things simple.
Real world example,.. I had a ticket lately from a frustrated User who was asking why the (MDM Managed) Apps on her iPhone seem to update 2 or 3 times a week (she's not always around WiFi and she had already turned on "allow large downloads over Cellular".. but it wasn't really resolving her issue.
Apple recently made the App Store searchable in a web-browser from a Windows computer. so I sent her the link to that and explained how she can search for various Apps (Outlook, OneDrive, Teams, etc).. and click "What's New" to see the Version Release History.. and on many of those Apps there legitimately were frequent updates (almost 1 a week in some cases)
The behavior she was seeing was the "greyed out App" circle downloading type animation .. which I basically had to tell her I can't fix that specifically. She needs to confirm she's actually on Wi-Fi (if the Wi-Fi requires a "Agree" button to be pressed,. she needs to do that).. otherwise it will just get stuck in that "downloading....waiting.." type loop.
Took me a few replies back and forth with her.. but this morning she OK'd me closing the ticket.
skiddily_biddily@reddit
I would be happy if they just learned to think
Fallingdamage@reddit
Per my boss some years ago..
The reason I made IT director with a high school diploma and no certs was: Competency, Communication Skills, and my ability to stay calm and explain things in easy terms.
nstern2@reddit
And it isn't just soft skills towards end users either. I have colleagues who can't read the room with other IT folk either during meetings. I've seen some major face palm moments.
Spellbound55@reddit
Not so much meetings, but I feel this is related. It’s the ticket notes that drive me the craziest.
I absolutely hate getting a ticket from help desk and it looks like it was written by an elementary student. 1-2 sentences, no capitalization, no proper punctuation. Absolutely drives me insane, and it’s so fucking common.
FFS, even just use AI to summarize some of your notes. It’s good at taking screenshots and mental chicken stretches and turning it into a concise troubleshooting log.
Old-Flight8617@reddit
This issue isn't IT specific. You'll find this in every sector. Working at HD taught me that people just suck at communicating not just professionally, but overall. From top to bottom in any given org.
So while OP is telling us to "learn how to speak", perhaps OP should take a step back, and he should learn to be specific.
Just my two cents.
skydiveguy@reddit
"Be specific" coming from the person posting "HD"....
Is that Home Deport? Harley Davidson?
Old-Flight8617@reddit
We are on a sys admin sub-reddit. Use your context clues.
Expensive_Plant_9530@reddit
No idea what HD would be in sysadmin context. I also immediately assumed Home Depot because that’s the only place I’ve ever heard called “HD”.
Leucippus1@reddit
You never heard of a 'help desk' in a sysadmin context? I am asking seriously, because that is like not hearing of a 'server' or a 'ticket' or something that is essentially ubiquitous in IT.
Expensive_Plant_9530@reddit
I’ve quite literally never heard anyone refer to help desk as “HD”.
skydiveguy@reddit
Plus they wrote “working at HD” which is just terrible English. “Working at a HD” or “working on a HD” would be the correct phrasing.
Expensive_Plant_9530@reddit
Exactly.
“Working at HD” sounds like you’re talking about a specific business. “Working at Help Desk” is just weird phrasing at best.
Unique_Bunch@reddit
This thread is about you
Hotshot55@reddit
So you're saying OP should learn how to speak?
yrogerg123@reddit
I swear that I keep advancing in my career because I'm very good at just...navigating a large organization, talking to people who are important to my job (IT Directors, facilities managers, office managers, project managers, etc) and just...getting them onboard with what I need and what I'm trying to do.
I think a lot of people really, really struggle with communicating risk or lack of risk when trying to push things forward, and in general are just bad at communicating what they are trying to do and who needs to know what about it.
Like...your on-site facilities support just needs to know that X service will be down for Y minutes, and nothing else. Your manager who is approving the change needs to know the detail and due diligence, who was informed and what they were told. Project manager needs to know what deliverables to expect and when to expect them. I don't know why it's so hard to speak different languages to different audiences but in my experience a lot of technical people make it seem really fucking hard.
maximumtesticle@reddit
Also, don't you love getting emails filled with !!!!!!!!!!!!!! and emojis? For sure makes me want to help you.
Evan2kie@reddit
I had a whole other career in corporate communications before studying computer science. I've progressed way faster than my peers because I can do a presentation, talk to the C suite people and handle customers. Being able to articulate your knowledge relative to your audience is huge
ItsNeverTheNetwork@reddit
Tbh, it’s beyond speak. Learn to communicate! It’ll take you so much further coupled with your technical skills.
TheCravin@reddit
I wholeheartedly agree, but I also find it (for me) to be self solving.
I was a drastically worse and less likable person before doing tier 1 type stuff as a student intern and then as the first few years of my first big boy job. I’m on the spectrum, had a big chip on my shoulder, and a shitty childhood. I was a straight up dickhead.
But I can’t express enough how much working in IT has helped me grow as a human being. I’m a better, more thoughtful, more pleasant person to be around, I have a better relationship with my friends and family, and I don’t look in the mirror and hate myself.
My technical skill has grown plenty (I’m pretty far away from tier 1 now), but being a pleasant person to talk to is the biggest glow-up of my life.
I really do think doing 1:1 style support (especially for people you respect) helps you grow so much as a person, which then help grow you in your career.
You should water your soft skills exactly as much as your hard skills.
Careful-Criticism645@reddit
They're trying to get into upper management.
Sea-Oven-7560@reddit
Lifer here (30+ years). If you are looking to get promoted being well spoken and being able to compose a well written email/document is the fast track. It's easy at a junior level to get by on technical chops, and that's great and important but that will only take you so far. As you move up you will have less and less keyboard time even if you don't want to. You will attend more and more meetings and the people in these meetings will be less technical or not technical at all and if you cannot communicate with these people your value drops. I'm at the point in my career where 50% of my time is spend meeting with management, meeting with customers and meeting with sales and then I get to do some actual engineering. You have to be able to explain a problem like you are teaching a 7 year old and you have to be able to explain that problem like you are in an interview with Amazon and that takes knowledge and effort -nothing drives me more crazy than when I have a co-worker that "umm"s and "you know"s their way though a discussion it just makes you look like you don't know your topic.
Finally, read your emails before you send them, work isn't reddit, use full words, be professional and check your spelling. The people in power are judging you don't make spelling be the reason someone gets promoted over you.
RikiWardOG@reddit
God wish I could tell my users this haha. When you end up questioning if English is their first language even though you know they don't speak any other languages.
Dank_Turtle@reddit
Preach. Nerd’s don’t know how to talk or dress appropriately and it’s frustrating. Especially when you wanna hire someone in certain industries like Finance where how you look and carry yourself to far vs an industry like biotech for example. Learn to talk, learn to dress, have some tact and you’ll go farther than your tech skills alone can
MrD3a7h@reddit
I've been at my place for a while now. I find myself providing translation services between the new people on my team and my director.
Oh god, this is how middle managers are born
SevaraB@reddit
Good tech people translate business requirements to technical processes. Note the word "translate." If you can't be conversant, the quality of support you can offer is going to be greatly diminished.
SixtyAteWhiskey68@reddit
Yeah there’s definitely a line between “ah yeah this dude is a nerd” and “this dude is a nerd AND has zero social skills”.
Like we don’t need to hear about your warhammer 40k collection while trying to set up the client’s new VPN Tunnel with the vendor and POC on the line. Save that for our SA meeting.
Ubumi@reddit
You know i was really worried about what a SA meeting was then I thought about it for a second...
PositiveBubbles@reddit
As someone who has been SA'd and is a SysAdmin, this took a while to get over I'll admit. Context helps alot.
apathyzeal@reddit
Speaking of communication, id hardly call yours constructive.
Dwonathon@reddit
Me when I join a meeting.
caann@reddit
I got hired into a help desk role because I wanted a fifteen minute commute. I’m usually good with talking and explaining things in layman terms. With in the first week engineering wants to take me because I came from cloud engineering. I just want to make people smile and have an easy commute.
I think being able to relay technical information to an easy to understand term helps a lot too. Such as yeah so the world wide web is like an ocean, youre home network is a lake and the isp is the river between the lake and ocean. (Not perfect but people understand that if the river aint flowing due to isp issue that its not my fault)
Princess_Fluffypants@reddit
This skill has taken me farther than anything else.
I’m at the point in my career where I’m quite a long way from having to interact with end users directly, but even when talking to highly technical team from completely different tech stacks, being able to explain your ideas to people that aren’t experts is an invaluable skill.
Conundrum1911@reddit
Why use many words when few words do trick?
wintersedge@reddit
Would add - learn to speak nicely and diplomatically.
1z1z2x2x3c3c4v4v@reddit
Communication skills are one of the few that can get you promoted... even if you are less technical.
The ability to explain technical terms to a non-technical person is an art form, and one worth learning.
It works the other way around, too... the ability to take business needs and translate them to technical requirements is also a career-promoting skill.
Merdrak@reddit
I think a lot of tech issues aren't helped by the fact that we are wizards to the average end user. It's just magic to them.
Despite being prevalent in business settings for 30+ years.
2354tr@reddit
...But also learn to shut up.
AndreiWarg@reddit
I remember chatting with our top networking dude. Amazing lad, love working with him. He was explaining some stuff to me regarding our set up and I had to stop him and tell him "Look mate, I got zero clue wtf you are actually talking about lol. Like I understand the words you are saying individually, but as a sentence it just doesn't mean anything to me."
Had a good laugh about it, and he simplified it for me, but it made me consider that from the other perspective every time I chat with non IT users.
RAMSxAI@reddit
I mean it can really go both ways.
Some really smart people out there with little to no social skills. They have a place, it used to be in an old janitor closet, then they stuck them with everyone else. Now they work from home.
Depending on your business they still exist, and they do not speak to people, you better have a ticket.
This is why middle managers existed as translators, limit how many humans they are in contact with because it will break them.
Now that we are in this hybrid social tech age, less need for middle managers and a dying breed for sure.
RAMSxAI@reddit
I mean it can really go both ways.
Some really smart people out there with little to no social skills. They have a place, it used to be in an old janitor closet, then they stuck them with everyone else. Now they work from home.
Depending on your business they still exist, and they do not speak to people, you better have a ticket.
This is why middle managers existed as translators, limit how many humans they are in contact with because it will break them.
Now that we are in this hybrid social tech age, less need for middle managers and a dying breed for sure.
RAMSxAI@reddit
I mean it can really go both ways.
Some really smart people out there with little to no social skills. They have a place, it used to be in an old janitor closet, then they stuck them with everyone else. Now they work from home.
Depending on your business they still exist, and they do not speak to people, you better have a ticket.
This is why middle managers existed as translators, limit how many humans they are in contact with because it will break them.
Now that we are in this hybrid social tech age, less need for middle managers and a dying breed for sure.
jupit3rle0@reddit
Just, no. Speaking is what PMs, managers, and L1s are for. If they can't comprehend technical language, and aren't capable of translating my technical jargon down to the end user, then they are already failing their primary objective.
Chaucer85@reddit
You are correct. Learning communication skills is a big part of moving up and out of entry level roles.
I haven't yet seen the best course to recommend to people that also considers a tech focus, but everyone would benefit from speech or theater classes to get better at presenting, active listening.
Translating from the tech side to other stakeholders is an entirely different thing, however.
Ms3_Weeb@reddit
Anyone else get frustrated by the people that posture by speaking in technical acronyms?
TheDawiWhisperer@reddit
no u
Moontoya@reddit
Gotta have the ability to talk up, talk down and laterally
Different methods for users Vs management Vs your team
2 of 3 at a bare minimum
Dealing with techs who can't communicate is agonising
GhostDan@reddit
100%. I've interviewed so many people with great technical skills but they either mumble or give one word answers. When I put you in front of a executive or a client it's going to cause issues.
You don't need to be sunshine and lollipops, but you need to speak up, articulate, and not scowl constantly.
Dense-Land-5927@reddit
I've come to realize that knowing when to speak, how to speak, and how to explain things is a vast portion of the job in IT. Sure, there are some IT jobs where you don't interact with people as much, but those aren't the norm.
Fantastic_Growth_425@reddit
Learning how to speak is very important skill, I mostly seat in front of a mirror and try explaining technical terms in a non technical way. Also use loom for video presentations to talk about experience and my lab setup.
Speaking slowly and building confidence.
MavZA@reddit
Couldn’t agree more, it’s ridiculous how many colleagues I have worked with whose careers have stagnated because they simply don’t know how to compose themselves well and speak with confidence. What’s doubly devastating is that some of them are just so fkn knowledgeable and good at what they do but just refuse to put that on display, but would rather come in with some awful logo tee and shorts and hate on the guy in the office because? I’m not saying wearing a cool logo tee or whatever is bad but like fk sake man, time and place and also grow up.
Financial-Act-665@reddit
When we do our summer interns, one of my team leads likes to remind us that we'd rather have someone that can properly write an email than a CHUD that people actively avoid
Snarky_Survivor@reddit
Yeah sure bud. I get called aggressive and a bunch of other bs because I'm a woman who's assertive. It's not like they're going to listen anyways when you baby them lol. "Goo gooo gaaa gaaa is it going to work?"
SpaceFighter78@reddit
Thanks I am cured now
Ummgh23@reddit
Me too, this post solved a whole life of social anxiety
Rio__Grande@reddit
Watched a coworker struggle to explain why the lack of DNS at a site is an issue for software updates. Both my manager and this coworkers couldn't even articulate how DNs is required to hit a URL tagged resource.
Man it's a Monday
Lustrouse@reddit
Don't sound so surprised. Plenty of people fall into this career because spending your time in a digital environment is a common substitute for real human interaction. Your peers will improve their communication skills, and you will become more accepting of people's shortcomings.
whatdoido8383@reddit
True that.
I've been in IT 20 something years now and IMO my tech skills are a smaller part of how I lasted this long and moved up. I'm a good communicator at all levels of the business which I guess is a rarity in IT.
sexuallyactivepope@reddit
And write. Write clear maintenance notifications that describe what and who is impacted clearly. Not a vague alphabet soup of devices and subsystems that no user has ever heard of.
Smiles_OBrien@reddit
Learn how to talk to another person, learn how to write a letter.
Everything else is just knowledge acquisition.
PawnF4@reddit
Yup. Soft skills are so lacking and underrated in our field.
I’ve never been the most knowledgeable or experienced in the groups I’ve worked in. That being said I’m not the most successful and it’s entirely due to my skills with communicating with stakeholders, users, and interviewing.
Exciting_Passenger39@reddit
Lmao this hits hard, I literally just had my review and my managers told me this... sorry im very straightforward and to the point if I think an idea is stupid I call it how I see it. Nobody can handle the truth anymore so from now on I'll just shut up and listen.
Snarky_Survivor@reddit
Yeah sure. I get called aggressive and a bunch of other bs because I'm a woman who's assertive.
Techdude_Advanced@reddit
Absolutely agree. I've been dealing with this. They never say anything.
MaelstromFL@reddit
The main problem with IT speaking is that they do not tailor the information to the recipient! I am not talking trap timers to CEOs, conversely I am not talking hourly burn rates to Network Engineers.
Tim-oBedlam@reddit
Along those lines, also learn to write clearly. A huge part of your job is going to be communicating technical concepts to non-technical people.
potkettleracism@reddit
For all the people asking "Yeah great but how do I do that?" without wanting to look it up, there's several avenues available to you.
If your company subscribes to LinkedinLearning, there's lots of professional development courses on public speaking, presenting, and other professional communication skills.
Beyond that, another method is to start going to public meetups (Bsides, DEFCON Groups, 2600 are all security-focused ones, but that's because I'm an Infosec guy) and eventually start presenting talks there.
There's also Toastmasters clubs, which are purpose-built to teach people how to speak publicly with confidence.
Valdaraak@reddit
We just did interviews to hire for an open position. 5% of that interview was technical. The rest of it was me seeing if they could hold a conversation and speak well.
I passed on a few people primarily because they couldn't. I didn't even care about their tech skills. I can teach tech. I can't teach you how to talk and be professional.
Donald-Pump@reddit
People in wheelchairs should get up and use the stairs and stop being lazy. I'm just face palming at all these people just sitting there when they could be walking around.
That is all.
gwatt21@reddit
Located the non-speaker.
Also, false equivalence for $200 alex.
Donald-Pump@reddit
It is the same. Accommodations are made for people with disabilities so that they can do the same work as people without disabilities. Autism and other difficulties with communicating are rampant in IT. Telling someone to "Just talk better" is the most ableist shit I've ever heard.
gwatt21@reddit
nope, it's not.
BalfazarTheWise@reddit
I’m in this field because I cannot speak well.
Wolverine-19@reddit
I was told early in career that “I can teach you the technical stuff but I can’t teach you how to talk to people.” I have been able to develop my customer service skills before entering into IT
VA_Network_Nerd@reddit
There is probably a ToastMasters chapter in your area.
If public speaking scares you more than a major systems outage, you might want to check them out.
Cam095@reddit
forever thankful i worked as a bartender/ server before i got into IT. i'm terrible at speaking but those serving jobs definitely helped me fake it and bc i could fake it it helped me drastically in my first IT job since I was doing remote support. hearing some of the other agents talk on the phone was painful
Expensive_Plant_9530@reddit
I always found that lack of skill ironic. In IT, our customer is ultimately the end user and management.
Being able to explain yourself and break technical details down into language a regular person with no IT background can understand is a crucial and core skill of IT, and that includes sysadmins.
ProfessionalEven296@reddit
OP - Bear in mind that if you can communicate and your colleagues cannot, you’re in the better position for a promotion. Leave them to wallow in their ignorance. 😄
ntw2@reddit
Compatriot’s, genius
StarSlayerX@reddit
100% agree... IT is a people business first
SamuelVimesTrained@reddit
I would like to think I can talk like a real person (just don`t like to talk).
But, honestly - management too should talk as if they were humans.
Yapping about abbreviation this, abbreviation that - and when you ask "what does XYZ mean" they stare at me as if i am the idiot :(
Arklelinuke@reddit
It's true, you have to deal with other people quite a lot. Even if you're off the helpdesk, you're then pretty much exclusively dealing with the decision makers outside of your department which is even more important to be good at communicating with than random end users. And part of that is having a good bigger picture of how the company as a whole operates. Gotta have some business knowledge along with the technical for it to really work out at that level.
Exploding_Testicles@reddit
Words are hard..
Shington501@reddit
Learn to speak, passionately learn, and be proactive. Three traits many tech folks lack that will help them get ahead
TheWandererWise@reddit
Why are you talking to you sweet Lord like that? Professionally, when you're writing a message or email, the greeting includes who you're writing to
Smart_Dumb@reddit
Stop trying to meet mog everyone bro.
Recent_Perspective53@reddit
What about posting ideas on a board they really are only slightly tangential at best on?
Ok-Welcome-3750@reddit
Point noted.
Adorable_Wolf_8387@reddit
Oh, why didn't I think of that?
EIGRPBelieveInMe@reddit
Ok