Dumb question for pilots, Why immediately land after take off for a landing gear failure?

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Its not just a Hydraulics thing. If you can get the gear up all the way that means youve got a bunch of extra drag you didnt plan for, which is going to increase fuel burn and mean you probably dont have enough fuel anymore. It also significantly limits the speed you can fly at. Another point is that if you think theres a gear issue, like maybe you think you burst a tyre say, you really dont want to pull the gear up, only to discover it then wont come down again. If you suspect an issue and its down and locked its better to leave it down and locked, land and get it checked out. A final thought that can factor into decision making some is the airports involved. Ideally if you have a broken aeroplane you want to be somewhere youre airline has maintainance facilities, so if your origin airport has maintenance youre better of landing back there than flying off to another airport where they may not. And finally on the airport side, as unpleasant as this is to think about, if you have a gear malfunction that might cause a crash on landing you want to be landing at a large airport, with big runways and a lot of emergency vehicle cover, you dont want to land out at some back water with a runway just barely large enough to satisfy requirements and only a couple of fire engines.

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JohnDisinformation@reddit

My dad was a pilot back in the 1970s and 1980s, and one flight turned into something none of them would ever forget. They suffered a landing gear failure, and the only way to get the gear down was manually from inside the hold. Three big blokes stripped down to their underpants and took turns going down there to crank it by hand as hard as they could. The space was brutally hot, toxic, and so unpleasant that no one could stay in for more than about fifteen minutes at a time, so they had to tag in and out to keep going.

It was supposed to be a forty-five minute job. By the time they finally got the gear down, they had only about thirty minutes of fuel left. They pulled it off, but only just. It was one of those moments where grit, teamwork, and sheer stubbornness made the difference.

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Icy_Huckleberry_8049@reddit

landing gear being down causes more fuel burn because of the excessive drag, they probably couldn't make it to their destination with the gear down.

If the gear isn't operating correctly, you don't want to continue the flight with an issue that affects the safety of the flight.

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1_800_UNICORN@reddit

Having the landing gear down will limit your speed and increase drag, so it’s not like you can just cruise at 35,000 feet like everything’s normal if the gear is stuck down.

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xXCrazyDaneXx@reddit

Cough Hapag-Lloyd Flight 3378 cough...

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kamakamawangbang@reddit

Air India AI676

https://www.sbs.com.au/language/punjabi/en/article/air-india-pilots-forget-to-retract-landing-gear-after-take-off/vlhsmk2eg

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Newflyer3@reddit

lol just you think there wasn’t an accident that occurred from the topic at hand. Theres always an obscure European flight from 25 years ago that did it in

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FRICKENOSSOM@reddit

Could also be location. Taking off from a maintenance base and destination is an outstation without maintenance or parts or spares.

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BLKHLK@reddit

For one thing - fuel. Having landing gear down induces a lot of drag which requires more power to maintain the same speed. Having the gear down also means you are limited to your max speed (landing gear limitations). Flying slow with lots of drag is expensive. Due to your speed ATC would also probably restrict you to lower altitudes which are less economical so that'll also add to your fuel cost.

Second thing - When you have an emergency near an airport it doesn't make any sense to fly away from it. Why risk having other issues in flight when you are away from a safe place to land. Doesn't make sense.

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SwissMargiela@reddit

Speaking of fuel, isn’t that usually a reason aircrafts don’t land immediately, since the fuel is too heavy?

Is it less dangerous to immediately land overloaded with a broken landing gear vs circling around until your plane isn’t too heavy?

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FlyingSceptile@reddit

It can be, but most smaller aircraft don’t have a difference between max takeoff weight and max landing weight (regional jets), and all aircraft can land safely at max takeoff weight, but would need maintenance after

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binaryhextechdude@reddit

Thanks for reframing this for me. I've always thought about what the plane can do instead of Plane has an issue and help is directly under me, why would I move away from that?

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AmazingCelebration58@reddit

My last year problem was a function of the airplane didn’t know we were airborne and thought we were still on the ground…it was a micro switch failure that when the gear is not carrying the weight of the plane the gear strut extends and the micro switches tell the airplane it’s in the air and to start a bunch of processes like pressurization and lock out things that are meant for ground only…we had no indication of what was working correctly and what wasn’t…so you put the plane back on the ground

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hungy54@reddit

Had this exact situation. When gear came up, had a GEAR DISAGREE warning. Following the QRH, it directed us to drop our gear and land at the nearest suitable airport. The nearest suitable airport was our departure airport. We followed the QRH and landed back at our departure airport. That’s the decision right there.

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Correct_Audience_206@reddit

Whats your explanation going to be if the damaged landing gear falls off and murks a family of 5 in their living room?

The cost of avaiation fuel is sky high......more drag = more fuel burned.

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SirLoremIpsum@reddit

The other thing to add is that when you take off from an airport you know lots - weather conditions, wind. You know "this is a good place to land".

If you fly into destination with an issue you don't know what the weather will be like there. You don't know if you'll get delayed etc.

Aviation history of littered with examples where aircraft don't immediately attend to issues and it becomes a problem later when they don't have time or resources (altitude, fuel, weather) to deal with it.

If you took off from a large airport that is fully equipped w emergency services and weather is good - why shouldn't you immediately land. Not "why should go to destination".

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tico_liro@reddit

There are 2 answers to this. If landing gears don’t go all the way up, the plane won’t perform like intended, so it may be that the plane won’t make it to the destination with gears stuck midway. Also, if you run into an issue with landing gear, you may know the result of the malfunction, which is gears not working, but you don’t always know what’s the cause, so it could be that something else breaks mid flight and then you are not in a comfortable position to turn back and land

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Available_Wolf4136@reddit

There was a crash I believe near Athens where exactly this happened and the pilots just tried to fly to their destination. The drag drastically consumed more fuel than expected and they quickly ran out of options to land. They ended up running out of fuel completely and landing short of the runway. Look up Hapag-Lloyd Flight 3378

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AlbanianRozzers@reddit

That one polish 767 is a perfect example of why.

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CharacterUse@reddit

?

It flew all the way across the Atlantic back home to Warsaw while the crew (in contact with ground maintenance and Boeing) tried to troubleshoot the problem. Turning around and landing back at Newark would have meant the same gear-up landing but with a full fuel load, far more dangerous than proceeding with the flight with the gear up (so no drag penalty) with the chance they could fix the problem on the way.

So it's the opposite, the perfect example of when you shouldn't turn around and land at the departure airport.

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AlbanianRozzers@reddit

They didn't attempt to lower the gear until approaching warsaw. If they returned to Newark they would have had hours to troubleshoot why the alternate extension was inoperable.

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CharacterUse@reddit

They had a hydraulic system malfunction warning about half an hour after leaving newark, If they had turned around back to Newark they would have had the same problem (not able to lower gear) but with a full fuel load.

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Expensive_Ad_3249@reddit

Many reasons, if the gear won't go il full/lock into place up with the doors closed, the plane will often be limited to 50% or less of it's normal speed, and that causes lots of drag, meaning the gear is in the wind slowing the plane down, causing more fuel to be used.

These combined might mean the plane would take double the time and would likely run out of fuel before arriving.

However, if the gear does go up, and may not go down, then it's a question of logistics. If the plane is taking off from "home" it would be better to burn/dump fuel, and land with all the passengers where they (mostly) live, and where the plane mechanics are, Vs landing in a car off place with little or no support, or an emergency landing where none of the passengers want to be, and need repatriation or onward travel.

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rohepey@reddit

Unless you're flying back from a remote destination?

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Expensive_Ad_3249@reddit

Assuming the gear is up and the plane is correctly configured for, and can cruise safely they'd likely go home. LOT16 (Polish airline) did exactly that when their second hydraulic system failed. Flew from NYC to Warsaw Poland with no fluid in the hydraulic system due to a hose failure. This meant that one of the autopilots, some of the flight controls and the gear would likely not work.

But it was safe and easier to bring the plane home.

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Swimming_Way_7372@reddit

Landing gear is the plural of landing gear.

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nw342@reddit (OP)

Thank you

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Swimming_Way_7372@reddit

Ill add a data point you haven't gotten yet about flying with the gear down. Most big airplanes have something call gear pins. They prevent the gear from being retracted while the aircraft is on the ground. If you forget to take them out before you fly then you are stuck with the gear down. I know of a situation where the aircraft was on a flight plan from one country to another (short flight) where it was better to continue the flight with the gear down instead of returning because some countries would make your life difficult for landing there if you didnt have permission even though you just took off from that country. The only way this situation worked was the airplane has plenty of fuel to get the whole flight completed at the now lowered than anticipated altitude.

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SACRED_FORESKIN@reddit

TLV to LCA?

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Prof_Slappopotamus@reddit

Fun fact just to be different: if you blow a tire on takeoff, but the great retracts normally, you proceed and deal with the situation at your destination at a much lighter weight. Caveat to that is if it causes a fuel leak (duh).

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Comfortable-Fly-5510@reddit

Or a fire...

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nighthawke75@reddit

Hydraulics. If there is a problem with the hydraulic system, it's best to get it on the ground soonest.

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setecastronomy01@reddit

Everything already stated is mostly on point but I’ll add one more nugget…you don’t have a choice, you are going to land that aircraft once it’s taken off, and that is a result of fuel and physics. Not being funny about it but better to stay where you are and get safely on the ground rather than depart unless where you have departed from is not an appropriate airport for a return with a gear issue. Obviously there are some caveats but 95% of the time, a return to departure airport is the play.

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baronmunchausen2000@reddit

If the aircraft has taken off from their home airport, landing back there would give them better access to technicians, customer support or even a replacement aircraft.

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unreqistered@reddit

none of those things are necessarily true …

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setecastronomy01@reddit

None of what things?

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setecastronomy01@reddit

Is that a question? If so, yes, all of those things would be addressed by the crew. Dispatch and maintenance would also be on the line with them advising of best options.

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mav3r1ck92691@reddit

A lot of good answers here, but above all: something is wrong with the plane, you land the plane. You don’t know what caused it or if there is an ongoing problem. Don’t gamble with your life.

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Ustakion@reddit

Flying with gear down increase fuel consumption by 80%. So you wont have enought fuel. Someone already did it and here is the result

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davidspdmstr@reddit

not to mention over speeding the brakes.

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davidspdmstr@reddit

If the landing gear is stuck in the down position, you are very limited on how fast you can fly. You can overspeed and damage the gear further. Just land and hope it is a quick fix. If your landing gear will not come down, the pilots will likely not know this until they reach their destination.

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glbtroters@reddit

One thing not mentioned are speed limits. There are speed limits to the airplane with gear down/open.

Aero loads can rip gear doors off and so on besides the potential inabilty to reach normal cruise speeds.

Parts departing A/C potentially can damage aero surfaces or endanger people on ground.

The flight ops manual has decision trees with advised outcome. Many faults advuse landing at the nearest suitable airport.

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SheepherderAware4766@reddit

1) it's a sign something has gone wrong. If it's a hydraulic failure, for example, you would want to be back on the ground before a leak leaves you with unassisted controls. (They didn't have any warning, but a prime example would be American 232)

2) fuel economy and airspeed restrictions suck when you have bits hanging out. You might be below the final reserve if you wanted to continue the flight with the fuel penalty.

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Eclectic7112@reddit

It could be part of a larger error chain and the risk of other systems breaking down is what typically leads to catastrophic events.

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leo-g@reddit

Regardless technical or functional, end of the day it’s a deviation from Established Procedures.

If the plane landed, fine. If it has to make an emergency ditch due to lack of fuel to reach the destination airport, the pilot has a lot to answer for.

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zerbey@reddit

Better to get on the ground before you discover the landing gear issue was indicative of a more serious problem and you lose flight controls. Pilots train constantly for these scenarios.

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3417-@reddit

Think of the passengers; they would rather be back home or at a location they chose than at some intermediate airport. Think of where the maintenance facility is, probably back where they departed than an airport in the middle of the. Think about the crew; they are more likely to get to be on another airplane if they go back to their company’s hub.

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Rosegarden3000@reddit

There is almost no advantage to sticking a gear failure out and fly to the destination and the risks of flying around are significant. Here are a few:

The main reason is that the retraction of the landing gear is something specifically done to reduce drag during flight. Flying around with extended landing gear can cause fuel burn to go up significantly, thus the aircraft would probably run out of its planned fuel before reaching the destination airport. That is of course an unsafe situation and to prevent that, the aircraft will land at the original airport.
Also aircraft performance will be affected in other ways, like a reduced climb rate and service ceiling. And if the landing gear is out (which the pilots can't know for sure when there is a gear failure) certain speed restrictions are in place to prevent the aircraft from tearing itself apart, so is then has to fly really slowly and very low towards its destination airport.
The landing gear is a critical component of an airplane that doesn't have a backup. One failure might be an indication of a system wide failure, or be the harbinger of a degradation of the system as a whole. So, it is better to deal with the issue early, while there is a lot of time to figure out an plan of action than fly to the destination and find out that the situation is more complicated than you thought and then having to rush to land the aircraft.

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A_storia@reddit

Flying for several hours with a significant defect is not recommended, if it can be avoided. Un-retracted gear or open gear doors are an obstruction in the airflow that can create further issues with additional stresses they weren’t designed for. Plus, regulators wouldn’t look too kindly on a crew knowingly travelling for hours before entering another territory with a defect they were aware of just after rotation

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Asieloth@reddit

To give you some numbers as well, on my aircraft if you fly with the landing gear down you incur a fuel penalty of 280%. So you need to triple your fuel. Depending on the operation there's a pretty good chance you won't reach your destination.

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rohepey@reddit

It's a significant problem caused by undetermined factors - could be mechanical, electrical, computer. You'd rather not fly a faulty plane.
Just imagine the increased drag.
Not all airports can accommodate landing without the landing gear, especially smaller airports. This limits the backup airports on the route should you need to land in an emergency.
It's not bad to have the rest of the day off.

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1Crownedngroovd@reddit

Too many variables to list, such as, what caused the malfunction? Maybe it's a hydraulic issue that might affect other systems or control surfaces. Maybe the airport they are taking off from is a maintenance base and where they are going isn't. The list goes on...

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