Will the "E-bike generation" be the reason car ownership finally starts to drop?
Posted by Serious-Decision-345@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 310 comments
I just saw a post titled "Are We Underestimating How Big E-Bikes Will Get?", which got me wondering:
I’ve been noticing a shift lately. A lot of people in their early 20s don't even seem bothered about getting a driver’s license anymore. My neighbor’s kid is a perfect example—he gets 90% of his commuting and social life done on a decent e-bike and has zero interest in a car.
A decade ago, getting your first car felt like the ultimate rite of passage into adulthood. Now, it seems like people value flexibility and skipping traffic more than owning a ton of metal. Are we witnessing a long-term cultural shift, or is this just a temporary economic side effect of rising car and gas prices?
classaceairspace@reddit
It will happen at different times in different places, it's already hit that point in Germany and many people are abandoning their cars and using bikes/ebikes to get to work. I am a bus driver and many of the other drivers have ditched their cars, ride as passengers on the same buses we drive, or bike to work. We also have bike leasing schemes to make entry easier, you pick the bike, the company pays for it, you put down a 20% or so, then an agreed amount is taken from your paycheck to pay for it, and then that ends up also saving you tax as your taxable income is lower.
bassvel@reddit
Bayern here. Hitted exactly where? With all those 2-hours traffic jams in München and lots of cars in Augsburg, Ulm, Kempten and other cities that I witness all the time there are no prospects for mass exchange towards ebikes
classaceairspace@reddit
I think you're looking for an answer to a different question. OP was asking about car ownership starting to drop, whereas I think you're talking about a major rebalance of how people get around. I live in SH and bikes are very common, I probably pass hundreds of other people bikes/ebikes on my way to work, cargo bikes are common and so are people who don't bother owning a car because they can get around without them. In other parts of the world you could probably go weeks or months without seeing anyone else on a bike, and possibly have never even seen someone riding a cargo bike.
droobieinop@reddit
SH?
classaceairspace@reddit
SH is Schleswig-Holstein, it's the northernmost Bundesland (state) in Germany. Bayern is one of the most southern Bundesländer. While I wouldn't really say SH is a progressive stronghold (nowhere is outside of big cities), Bayern is (or has been) known as a stronghold for the CDU/CSU (conservatives) for a long time, so it's likely they have much less in the way of bike infrastructure there, and as a result more car centric infrastructure as up here.
droobieinop@reddit
Thanks
wturber@reddit
This will vary a lot depending on the street situation where you live. I live in a very car oriented metro area - a suburb of Phoenix, AZ. So I ride my cargo e-bike almost exclusively withing the limits of my small town and for a few trips up to 20 miles or so round trip out of town. But the majority of trips out of town are by car. The car does more mileage. The bike does more trips. I can reduce my car trips, but I getting rid of the car isn't really practical yet.
VideoLeoj@reddit
Really?! That makes me sad.
I was an exchange student in Neu Ulm in 1997, and we used the path along the Danube all the time on bikes. They weren’t e-bikes yet, but it seems like they’d be fine to use on there.
I miss that… bike to a nice spot on the river, and eat some delicious fresh bread and cheese with some wine… what a time.
Serious-Decision-345@reddit (OP)
Smart move by the company to offer those leasing schemes.
droobieinop@reddit
Is this a convenience or economic decision in Germany? What I see, in my corner of the US, is a lot of trashy class 2 (pedal or throttle) bikes being used by people who can’t afford a car and all the expenses that come with it.
classaceairspace@reddit
Probably a factor of everything, including environmental decisions as we tend to care a lot about the climate here. I do see the occasional "Amazon ebike" but not very common at all, I couldn't tell you the last time I saw one, they're that uncommon. The rest are mostly typical mid drives you can find in local bike shops. Here there are many bike shops, and when you go inside there are plenty of options aimed at people looking at bikes for transport, not as sport. Our public transport systems are also relatively good, this is a relatively small city, but people can get from basically anywhere on the outskirts to the middle on buses that run every 7-30 (depending how much demand the line has) minutes, and in the dead of night once per hour. Add on that we have the Deutschland ticket (now 63€/ month) that permits unlimited public transport use, there's not really a great need for a car if 99% of your journeys are commuting to work in the same city. For me, I ride my ebike to work because it's cheaper and easier than owning a car. If it doesn't work for some reason or for some reason I'm not feeling it one day, I can just walk to the bus stop and take the bus to work.
electricbikerider1@reddit
In England we have a similar scheme. I bought my first road bike , unfortunately over here we can only borrow a certain amount and even the tip amount won't stretch too a good ebike. But unfortunately we don't have the bike or public transport infrastructure to allow us to use bikes or busses to get to work reliably
pterencephalon@reddit
Unless you live in London. I had no issues there. But England often seems to have the case of London and "everywhere" being very different experiences.
thisFishSmellsAboutD@reddit
Love hearing that! Great leasing scheme, too.
BXRunner@reddit
I would've loved to have a scooter or bike for my first vehicle nearly 10 years ago. The problem with vehicles is the financial responsibilities of them. I was charged $700 monthly as the cheapest option for progressive. As a young adult, this is probably the biggest money pits you can do early in life. If you can't tag along on a family members insurance, they scam TF out of you since your deemed a "hazard" by age/area.
$700 + like another $100 for the lease + gas and repairs... Money pit.
I expect ebikes to keep booming until the government makes it impossible to own one.
Vegetable_Network310@reddit
Yeah....they'd love to make you have a licence and insurance on your ebike. After all, if everybody rode an ebike, who's gonna pay for their existence in an office controlling you like a parasitic disease?
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
And NJ did it (tho Class 1 doesn't need insurance, just license and registration), on the excuse that too many minors were riding ebikes and being run over by cars, so they should be prevented from doing it. Longterm, I think they'll require a license for regular bicycles.
espressocycle@reddit
Mopeds were loud, smelly and often unreliable though. Ebikes have a lot more going for them. But yeah I expect to see licensing requirements in more states.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
Sure they were, but that's not at all why states regulated them. A lot of the pretense of ebikes, for why they get treated less harshly in the law, is that they're clean vehicles, but politicians don't actually care about that when the car lobby comes knocking.
espressocycle@reddit
In NJ one of the examples they used to justify it was actually a premeditated murder. Another was a huge landscaping truck barreling down a residential street. Neither had a goddamn thing to do with the electric motor and now we have to have a license and registration for any vehicle with pedals and a motor of any kind and insurance if there's a throttle. The DMV doesn't even know how to implement it since bikes don't have titles or VINs.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
Yep, being clean doesn't mean any protection from awful politicians.
kinga_forrester@reddit
You were paying $8400/year in car insurance!? Even for an 18 year old that’s insane, what were you driving? And you were leasing?
BXRunner@reddit
2006 Scion. The car itself wasn't worth the rate they charged me for 1 year....
Had to get full coverage to get the car off the lot. That's how they get you.
espressocycle@reddit
Decades ago when I was 22 I was paying $4,000/year just for minimum liability on a Corolla. I tried to buy a $6,000 car but adding collision was another $500, essentially assuming a 100% chance of total loss within one year. I did have one ticket on my record and a small fender bender from a ice storm.
Tjackson20@reddit
What the hell kind of insurance was that?? $8400 is more than I've spent buying and fixing up both used cars I own, that is absolutely insane.
rdeforge@reddit
Nope ...the cost of cars will restrict ownership. It is currently showing in the housing market. EBikes may be a needed form of cheap transportation for some.
kronicle2020@reddit
Commuting is one thing, if you're close enough to work...sure...get an ebike. Want to go on a family trip? Want to pick up friends to go together somewhere? Want to go on a picnic? Ebike becomes more challenging. Ebike+car is a good mix.
Ro-54@reddit
Not in the USA. It’s just a cheap toy for most Americans.
Reasonable-Age-6837@reddit
Its money.
They're a good option if you're broke.
THen they become a luxury item once you've got your cars.
Aware_Acorn@reddit
it should in theory be the case in big congested cities, but in places like the US, culture will override that. Americans still prefer to drive 5 minutes for a 100m walk from walmart to CVS parking lot, than crossing the street. that's not going to change anytime soon. Mainly because Americans, over 50% apparently, are not fit enough even for the Ebike.
Daboujieboo89@reddit
Poor can't afford rent and a car. Let alone a house loan. Couples can't afford a rent and two car payments. Men are sucking it up so they're waifu can have a car.
Walk-The-Dogs@reddit
I think it's America's youth coming very late to the two-wheeled transportation party that's been prolific elsewhere in the world for decades.
Jealous-Ninja-8123@reddit
I personally dont think so. Many state laws view ebikes with motors over 750 watt power as mopeds. Have mopeds and motorcycles taken over the car industry? Nope. Neither will ebikes.
MeeyuhLol@reddit
I've personally not really seen it in the UK. Ebikes have definitely risen, but people still would rather drive for longer trips than take any other alternative because public transit virtually doesn't exist outside of London
Vyce223@reddit
I think there's a triple threat against traditional ICE vehicles. From ebikes/scooters in the place that make sense, EVs getting to reasonable tech levels and price especially used and, of course oil uncertainty of our current times will stick with a lot of the youth for a while id say.
BoringBob84@reddit
If history is any guide, for a generation after the oil crisis in the mid-1970s, economy cars were very popular in the USA. And then, SUVs became popular in the mid-1990s and cars have increasingly bloated up since then to their ridiculously enormous proportions today. It warms my heart to see young people rejecting this wasteful and dangerous behavior. I hope the trend continues for at least another generation.
I_love_quiche@reddit
I also see plenty of adults commuting in e-bikes. Many of them are using it as e-mopeds (not pedaling). It’s a great way to commute for 10~15 mile round trips.
slacknsurf420@reddit
I don't think they will replace a vehicle but rather fills a void that encompasses what a vehicle can be used for
hroaks@reddit
Yes op is talking about those in their early 20s. ebikes might postpone you from getting a car if you live in a college town or still rely on your parents but eventually you will need your drivers license. The average commute to work is > 20 miles
Legitimate_Guava3206@reddit
But it can extend the lifetime of a car b/c the car is being used less. The ebike can also reduce the total cost of operating that vehicle - less fuel, fewer oil changes, fewer tire replacements, etc.
lee1026@reddit
Average age of a car on the road is already pushing 12 years. We are already at the point where putting more miles on the car probably help it last longer (less condensation build up on engines, etc)
I_love_quiche@reddit
Electric cars may push lifespan of cars to be even longer. Simpler propulsion design means less breakage.
slomobileAdmin@reddit
It also allows sharing of 1 or 2 cars among a friend group of 4-10 people rather than a car per person. The terms are rarely explicit but it works out. Life's errands are done together rather than solo making a nicer life. One person enjoys driving, one enjoys working on the car, one enjoys ownership without the other attendant responsibilities, one gets rides more than anyone, they all enjoy the shared time together and pitch in for gas and parts flexibly enough to keep tension down among the group. They e-bike to where the car is rather than slow everyone down by being picked up. Then everyone has their bikes together after the errand for shared activities away from the car.
lee1026@reddit
Zipcar was built around that model, but they have a lot issues trying to make it work
slomobileAdmin@reddit
Zipcar is renting, not owning. You can't leave your homework in the car overnight. You can't personalize the car. You can't hot rod the car. You can't pass it on to your kids.
I_love_quiche@reddit
Zipcar is a great concept, until Uber/Lyft came along. Still great for rentals, but I bet many short trips are replaces but multi-leg Uber/Lyft rides.
lee1026@reddit
Do you envision one person in a shared pool of 10 people hot rodding a car and have the other 9 be cool with it?
slomobileAdmin@reddit
If I picked the 9 other people, and the car, yes. Not for everyone, but necessary for some.
Not an interior stripped race ready car like a teen might do, but quality reliability and performance upgrades. Like Banks or Jasper parts for example.
VirtualElderberry592@reddit
True.. but even 20miles, on an ebike isn't really an issue. 20mil/hour is fast on a standard push bike, but toss on an engine and it's 100% doable. Average ebike can go 75mil between charge, so work and back isn't a big stretch of the imagination.
Odd_Structure1312@reddit
An ebike makes a 20mile commute pretty reasonable! Yea it still takes some time but if you are having a good time and the infostructure for your route is decent you might not want to change things.
CraziFuzzy@reddit
Arguably, that 20 mile commute average is based on a paradigm that is not necessarily set in stone - commuting from suburbs to city centers. The decision to do so IS just that, a decision. There are tradeoffs, and it IS possible to accept a different tradeoff - a smaller home/condo/apartment closer to work instead of a commute.
sculltt@reddit
Yes, very often the higher COL of being in a bikeable/walkable urban area is easily more than made up for by not having to pay for a car.
stormdelta@reddit
Not to mention an increase overall in remote work. Yes there was a temporary spike from COVID, but there's still a general upward trend there.
chatterwrack@reddit
I gave up my car for an e-bike I’m old and would never have thought I could live without a car. Luckily my city is not all that big size wise so I can get anywhere on my bike. I just take Muni or Waymo if it rains.
SpiteObjective3509@reddit
The environment is the biggest influence on society, that and the fact most of America still gets a winter will prove to be a large factor as to whether or not that happens.
SadisticPawz@reddit
I dream of a future where ebikes are allowed to exist.
Whether pedal or throttle. Sidewalk or road. Or even micromobility-specific lanes if really needed. But then they'd have to be everywhere. So both peds and drivers are happy and stop complaining. No excuse to be inattentive and step in your way in that situation when there are literally lanes dedicated to it everywhere like we have for cars. Also means no excuse to ride in the wrong place because the proper lanes would exist everywhere.
I'm also willing to make registration or license requirements as a concession for higher speeds IF they maintain accessibility. Both a license exam that isn't hidden behind bureaucracy and no arbitrary or artificial speed limits. No reason you shouldn't be able to go fast on an empty road or path at 3 am. Just ruining practicality for no reason. Maybe speed limit signs on paths during active hours that actually reflect activity and are enforced properly. NOT AI surveillance.
No other vehicle class has this much potential. The affordability, accessibility, versatility, repairability, and practicality are things that need to be protected.
I dread being forced to buy 10kmh 5000$ corpo safetyslop bricks that you can't repair and which lock us into another 100 years of carslop.
250wh/km vs 25wh/km btw.
Kinetic_Symphony@reddit
I am not. It's a guilty unless proven (or paid) innocent system. Cars can go faster than the speed limit. That's not illegal.
The point of the law, its spirit, is to maintain basic order and safety. Which isn't hard to do. Buy any bike, even powerful ones. Don't ride them like a moron.
BoringBob84@reddit
I understand that you want to avoid the DMV. I do too. However, license and registration serve important functions:
Ensure that drivers have at least a minimum level of training.
Make it easier to track stolen vehicles.
Make drivers accountable for breaking the law. Without a license plate, it is easy to evade arrest.
Pay for transportation infrastructure.
Kinetic_Symphony@reddit
I'm sorry, it's an ebike. The training required to safely use one is 10 minutes in the backyard or neighborhood street. I think people have an irrational obsession over safety and this leads to drastic overregulation.
Great argument for voluntary registration, which I have nothing against.
Maybe on an electric motorcycle, but no one's outrunning a cop on an ebike, even the most powerful ones available. It merely comes down to enforcement of existing basic standards. If an ebike user is a moron barreling through stop signs at 50 mph or on bike lanes, cops absolutely should stop and heavily fine or even arrest them.
No extra regulations or laws needed.
Most road infrastructure is paid for via property taxes, which everyone who lives somewhere pays (even if you rent - rent is factored higher based on property taxes).
Some infrastructure is paid for via gas taxes so there is an argument there, then again, ebikes effectively cause 0 wear and tear on roads. This is a stronger argument against heavy EV cars though.
BoringBob84@reddit
Unfortunately, regulations are necessary because too many people care about their own thrill and convenience more than they care about the safety of other people.
Surveys consistently show that, among the top reasons why more people don't ride bicycles more often is a lack of safe and contiguous infrastructure. It does us no good to create more protected infrastructure if we let it get overrun with motorized vehicles.
I see these little assholes all of the time with motorcycle helmets, face masks, and dark glasses. They don't need to go that fast to evade arrest. All they need to do is to disappear. A police officer has no way to identify them. And that is the point.
VirtualElderberry592@reddit
right there. You say it's safe infra. This has nothing to do with registration of the bike, or regulation of the rider. Hell if cars even followed the laws already on the books more people would cycle. 1 meter space.. ha ha..
BoringBob84@reddit
Of course it does. Motorized vehicles can be very dangerous, due to their high weight and speed. Registration for motorized vehicles and a license for the driver helps to ensure that the vehicle meets safety regulations and that the rider has basic safety skills. It also helps the police to hold the driver accountable for violating traffic safety laws - including riding a motorcycle on a non-motorized path.
Kinetic_Symphony@reddit
We live in a universe of tradeoffs. I don't agree with you that regulations are necessary, but I can understand why you want them or feel like they are. You value safety and peace far more than I do. It's important we both can accept neither "side" is objectively correct, it's preference.
What I can say objectively is, at least in my area, I rarely ever see reckless ebike riders. I think the issue is overblown.
I'm 100% with you on having more biking infrastructure. The key isn't about motorized vs non-motorized, especially for Ebikes. If I see a bike trail, I limit my top speed to 15 mph and ride carefully. Motor or not, plenty of bikes go that speed or even faster, no problem.
It's about punishing behavior rather than blanket construction of the transportation device itself.
Curious, where do you live, if you're open to share that? Is your area infested with tens of thousands of ebikers that specifically train to evade cops or something? I've never seen anything like what you're describing here in my area (North Carolina).
VirtualElderberry592@reddit
Around my place, there are ton of ebikers. Mostly kids, but some older people. There are also a pile of people on motor-dirt-bikes. Crim's going crim.
I always hear about people driving crazy, and hurting others. Count the number of deaths by car vs ebike, and account for percent, and then come to me with ebikes are a danger. I'd 100% rather get smacked by an ebike at 40 vs a car at 20.
BoringBob84@reddit
I agree in theory, but few governments have the resources for robust enforcement. Limiting the capabilities of the machines also limits the damage that irresponsible people can do with those machines while not being a significant burden to responsible riders. Even thew EU limits of 15.5 MPH and 250 Watts are generous limits for a bicycle. 20 MPH and 750 Watts are extremely generous ... that is, unless the real goal is to ride motorcycles on non-motorized paths.
Kinetic_Symphony@reddit
If more powerful ebikes require licensing, registration, insurance and all of that, it is a very significant burden to responsible riders. Punishing them for, in my view, very minimal gain.
Are you in the US? The main issue with the power of ebikes is road safety. If a person is a responsible rider, keeping off of bike paths (and honestly at least where I live - there are almost no bike paths at all) they have to try to flow with traffic. But even on backroads, drivers in the US go minimum 40 mph, often up to 50. To keep safe, one is required to go faster there. This is not irresponsible.
It really is all about context, rather than blanket banning. Even if that means some people get away with being reckless, that's a small price to pay imo for basic travel freedom, which is otherwise fully denied to people in the US who do not drive.
BoringBob84@reddit
This is nothing new. There are good reasons why motorcycles require safety features and registration, and why their riders need training and licenses.
Ebikes are intended to be bicycles that operate at bicycle speeds, so they are safe among pedestrians.
When we allow motorcycles on non-motorized infrastructure, then we make it unsafe, and that is a disincentive for people to leave their cars at home - a step in the wrong direction.
Kinetic_Symphony@reddit
Again, tradeoffs and preferences. There are good reasons, sure. To me, they do not even remotely outweigh the impose negatives.
Some are. Others are not. Context dependent, also as to why one would purchase one to begin with.
The only way people will decide to bike rather than drive is if there's proper biking infrastructure. You can have ebikes on bike infrastructure as long as those using them behave, it's as simple as that. Rules do not make society, they're a formality. It's about people and culture and weeding out those who demonstrate through their actions to be a threat to others.
SadisticPawz@reddit
Honestly, ebikes are a chance to start over without all of the bloat that comes with motorcycles. A proper in-between class.
BoringBob84@reddit
All of them that are safe and legal on non-motorized infrastructure are intended to be bicycles that operate at bicycle speeds and that provide modest assistance for hills and headwinds. The laws make this very clear.
That may be simple, but it is not reality. Many people will not behave and enforcement is very difficult.
SadisticPawz@reddit
ai ahh reply
as if registering bikes would work for theft prevention, I feel thatd fall apart quick
BoringBob84@reddit
What are you trying to say? Do you know how to construct a complete sentence?
You don't need to "feel" anything. There is hard data on this.
SadisticPawz@reddit
Bro doesnt know 💀💀
Oh, thanks, didnt know that theres data on registering not helping with theft. Idk why you brought it up in the first place then
BoringBob84@reddit
Do I really need to explain to you how having a license plate on a vehicle helps police officers to identify the registered owner and to determine if it is reported stolen?
SadisticPawz@reddit
As if thieves are unable to take it off.
BoringBob84@reddit
Apparently, you aren't getting it. When license plates are required, then any vehicle without a license plate is an immediate red flag to a police officer.
SadisticPawz@reddit
The point is to have a license plate ONLY if you want the ability to go fast.
BoringBob84@reddit
I agree with that point. In this context, I consider "fast" as anything above typical bicycle speeds.
SadisticPawz@reddit
Typical bicycle speeds can go pretty high.
BoringBob84@reddit
This source shows 18 MPH as the top end of that:
Maybe the 15.5 MPH limit in the EU is a bit restrictive, but the 20 MPH limit in the USA and Canada is very generous in comparison to typical standard bicycle speeds.
SadisticPawz@reddit
I'm pretty sure I sustained 30kmh+ on my bike. Would love a proper mini moped class.
BoringBob84@reddit
I agree. Here, a legal moped is limited to 30 MPH and 1,500 Watts. It must be registered (cheaper than a motorcycle) and it is prohibited from highways and non-motorized paths. The rider must have a helmet and a standard car driver's license.
The problem that I see is that registration requires a VIN, which many of these e-motos don't have.
SadisticPawz@reddit
You'd be surprised by how many have serial numbers on the frame. That can sometimes be good enough
VirtualElderberry592@reddit
My BMX has one. It's 10 years old. I think my bike had one 40 years ago too.
VirtualElderberry592@reddit
When I was a kid in Canada (ont) we had plates for our bikes. Just a good solid sticker. Never had an issue with it.
Vegetable_Network310@reddit
Ditto. Keep the damned government out. Ride with courtesy and common sense. Don't be a jerk. Enjoy your freedom and help to keep us all free.
SadisticPawz@reddit
Respect. I agree. It's just the only thing I can think of that would placate karens and politicians without having us lose out on too much. I would hate to need a license plate but if it allows me to live and let live.... to ride respectfully and sometimes faster then I'd be ok with it.
Kinetic_Symphony@reddit
Unfortunately, I think any attempt to placate them merely opens the door to the current existing tyranny paradigm over cars. They cannot be appeased until we're all in chains.
CraziFuzzy@reddit
I see absolutely no problem with 750W, 20mph class 2 bikes, as is currently 'allowed to exist' just about everywhere.
SadisticPawz@reddit
Exactly, just wish the eu would catch up and not have speed or road restrictions on an accessible lightweight 45kmh moped class
InitiativeAny3478@reddit
Our streets are going to look like India if we don't regulate to some degree
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
For much of the US, that's an improvement on safety.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
We stand at a precipice.
"But the good days didn’t last. Lawmakers began to consider the safety issues raised when a vehicle with such a low top speed (often not even 30mph) mingles with normal traffic (acceleration at stop lights was a big problem). There were some accidents; not as many as with motorcycles, but there were a lot more safety laws for motorcyclists–including helmet requirements. And in an accident, the rider always seemed to lose. Furthermore, the police became troubled by the fact that, with licensing optional in most states, they were a good means of transportation for people who’d had their driver's licenses revoked. Resulting legislation greatly increased restrictions on them. Alas, public perception changed too: The novelty wore off, and sales leveled, then declined, then dropped off the map. Mopeds were dead."
Taucher1979@reddit
I know a couple of families who have sold their cars and have load carrying e-bikes instead. So this trend is happening to all ages. I live in a city centre and I suppose that in the countryside it’s the same as it ever was? I think there will be an urban/rural divide.
Duct_TapeOrWD40@reddit
I don't think so. Ebike never replced my car, it completed my vehicular transportation and recreation possibilities.
Just an example. It can go legally into forests, (even into the national parks with some restrictions) and with this Ebike I can relatively comfortable live togethert with the fact I have to leave my motorised vehicles outside.
Or shopping. I don't need the car for two half mile routes, but carrying bags isn't comfortable either. An Ebike fills this gap in transportation.
arghcisco@reddit
I thought my car was replaced, until it started to rain all week. I’m not taking that risk to get to work.
VirtualElderberry592@reddit
It's never going to be a 100% replacement, but if it's 50% of trips, then it's 50%
Hungry-Breakfast-304@reddit
If I had better bike infrastructure I'd drop my car.
godzillabobber@reddit
That's what makes the difference. Paris built the infrastructure and cycling exploded. Same thing in every American city that has done so.
Our current pro big oil government must be afraid of that because they are demanding that bike infrastructure be removed and defunded. But people are demanding it of our local leaders. Tucson is where I live and our twice yearly Cyclovia event was yesterday. Over 10,000 riders attended and roughly 25% were ebikes.
Telos2000@reddit
I live nearby Miami and every time I go to downtown I see e-bikes everywhere and when I cross the causeway to South beach I see even more e-bikes and small vehicles like Vespas I’ve never seen so many Vespas before in my life
godzillabobber@reddit
The math is simple. A car takes the average person a full workday per week to pay for. Over a career, that's ten years. Families can't afford them and they are wising up to the fact they hardly need them. Especially when cities plan for them.
wturber@reddit
It doesn't have to cost nearly that much. I ran the numbers on my 2006 Sebring that I drove for almost nine years. Average yearly cost was $2650. This was far less than 20% of my income. Probably more like 5%. Maybe less.
The cost per mile was $0,24. I could have done a bit better with a different car that had better gas mileage.
Families choose to spend far more on cars than is necessary. Why? Well lots of reasons I guess.
godzillabobber@reddit
Yep, and the average is much higher. Since 1975, my net purchases are at $45,000 (what I bought them for vs what I sold them for. They last a lot longer when you rarely drive them.
wturber@reddit
My capital cost to own the car for 8.8 years was $4000. The majority of the expense was gas (almost half), insurance and maintenance - in that order. I averaged 10,800 miles per year on the Sebring.
VirtualElderberry592@reddit
Yes.. 100%.. It's already showing. Ebikes are better in a pile of ways. Better for the environment, better for fitness, and all around safer because it's not 2000lbs rolling down the road.
I picked up a standard push bike because I realized I was driving 2km to the shops. Very happy I did. Ebikes are great because they help people who are less able than I am, to get about.
Many countries seem to be fighting the ebikes in their laws. I personally can't wait for them to become even more main stream.
My only fear. They are getting to the point some of them are really just e-motor-bikes. I do think this pushes the gov's to crack down. I wish this would stop, and people would be reasonable about them. Don't poke the bear.
1111joey1111@reddit
I've been a bicyclist and electric scooter rider my whole life. No plans on ever having a car.
Rude-Rain-3149@reddit
urban america sure but outside of cities...its all about cars, america's industry is cars cars cars
wturber@reddit
I doubt it. I think self-driving cars are what will do it. Ebikes will have an outsized impact compared to regular bicycles. But my bet is that they will pale in comparison to self-driving cars. Once cars are self-driving at scale, many people will opt out of ownership. At least they will if the pricing structure is right - and I think it can be. I think it should be a net savings for the average person at a cost of some convenience.
pandaSmore@reddit
Wtf is the ebike generation ?
SpinkickFolly@reddit
With NJ e-bike law getting passed. No, I think the growth and popularity is going to be cut by over regulation.
Ebikes should look like bikes.
If you want a bike that can keep up and mix with traffic, we already have that, it's called a moped.
If other states follow NJ, class 1 bikes fall under severe regulation including license, reg and ins being required.
Lack of enforcement has been the status quo for the past 7 years, the more rules and laws that get stacked on top of ebikes even if they are largely ignored just make ebike riders this more fringe group for those willing to break the law. Basically how mopeds and dirt bikes are generally used in cities.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
NJ's law had nothing to do with how the bikes looked. Minors were on bicycle-looking ebikes when killed by cars, and that was the justification for requiring licensing for all ebikes.
SpinkickFolly@reddit
Yes, minors did die. In NJ, law makers literally cited the two girls getting intentionally murdered by a 17yo as one of the reasons to pass the law just because they were on ebikes on a side street when they were attacked.
Minors also died on vehicles like Sur-Ron Xs which get reported in the paper and Facebook as "ebikes". It has nothing to do with how bikes look...
I am saying the ebike community wants to keep the status quo with its cat3 loop hole bikes. I think it's going to get destroyed by its inaction.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
The NJ lawmakers did not cite anything about Surrons for the law. All of the deaths cited were on actual legal ebikes. A 12yo on a Class 1 hit by a landscaping truck? Reason to put an age limit on Class 1s.
The status quo is not stable. This EXACT pattern happened with mopeds, with deaths of minors used to reason requiring a license for them. There's every chance now, since ebikes can be stealthy, that NJ just outright requires license plates for all bicycles. That may sound crazy to you, but it's their exact line of reasoning, keeping kids out of the streets where cars can run them over.
SpinkickFolly@reddit
Not quite sure what your position is. Are you for regulation with getting kids off all ebikes, or do you think any regulation is the slippery slope to requiring papers for bikes?
Fun fact, some towns have ordinances from the 70s like West New York that require all the residents of that boro to acquire a permit and sticker from the police department for their bikes.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
I think regulation in this area is generally a slippery slope:
As much as it pains me to say, there may also be some actual sense in saying you need to be a certain age to ride a bicycle in the road generally, for most of the US where roads are designed with no regard for the safety of cyclists.
SpinkickFolly@reddit
I hear all the arguments against more regulation. Something that confuses me in this argument is that we have under 49cc ICE mopeds laws on the books (in NJ) that require license registration and insurance. There is even a special license that 15 year olds can get for mopeds.
Why does an electric ebike make it suddenly exempt from all the regulation that comes with mopeds that are of equivalent power and weight. (Cat3 is a huge category that encompasses ebikes that looks like bikes at 37lbs to full 150lb cargo bikes)?
I think with speed and mixing with traffic should come with more rules. I rode motorcycles for over a decade. We wear only a helmet on a bike because a fall is assumed to be less than 10mph. Falling at 28mph, woof thats a whole lot of hurt getting into an accident.
To be clear, I don't know what the laws should look like, I know what I don't like now, and I especially do not like NJ e-bike law coming this July. I can be convinced, but I almost never hear compelling arguments other than it's inconvenient and a barrier to access ebikes if papers are required in any way. Why are we different than Europe which does require license and registration for equivalent cat3 ebikes?
Really what I want is to be able to tell at a glance if someone riding ebike or moped/motorcycle.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
Why indeed? My state never required a license for mopeds, and even made their definition based on bhp, not cc, so as a result, we just consider Class 3 ebikes and similar mopeds. Maybe it's a little nuts to allow outright kids to go 30mph on the road (I certainly think we should have an age requirement there), but letting them go 28mph on electric and nothing on gas is just plain inconsistent.
To elaborate on the inevitability, we already have the tech now that an ebike could switch from emoto to Class 1 with a sequence of button presses (and let's say the throttle turns into another function). If the police stop you because you were going 29mph slightly downhill, but you manage to hit the sequence just out of their view...how are they going to know that you weren't just pedaling really hard when your ebike seems to be Class 1 on the dyno?
Sure, the police can know something's up if certain things looked off, like maybe you weren't pedaling at all, but scale this up to hundreds of riders in a single city, and enforcement's going to be an utter bitch, pushing police to just be going after the worst speed offenders as far as anything that looks like it could be an ebike...which is already where police are at anyways in many areas.
But of course, the ebike industry could collapse. It happened to mopeds, because cheap Japanese cars came in at the same time many states switched from no license/registration/insurance for mopeds to needing almost the same setup as a motorcycle. If Chinese companies start making inroads with their <$6k EVs, there's suddenly a lot less reason to get on an ebike, and with states also legislating like crazy pushing many teens to get licensed, then they'll just beg their parents for a Chinese EV.
Now with all that said...IMO a sane law setup would be something like this:
SpinkickFolly@reddit
Interesting you think there should be a weight limit. Its something I have started to question when cargo bikes started showing up. Like 150lbs is big. But then people are putting full adults in the tubs. All of sudden, a person is riding a vehicle that weighs 300lbs. No one can say that's "as safe" as a bike when it comes to pedestrian safety.
About the speed. Most e-bikes are motor speed limited. Even on the downhills, the motor holds the bike from speeding over its limit from what I have seen. I can blast down past the deliversta Arrow bikes going down hill on my bike for instance.
To bring home the point. Being really into safer infrastructure. Obviously we are people that are extremely research and data driven. I can argue bikes are extremely safe to ride. Its the cars that make them dangerous. We use countries like Amsterdam to prove that bikes can be safe with good infrastructure.
But can we say the absolute same if everyone was rolling around on cat3 ebikes yet? I understand cars is what makes riding so dangerous. There is no getting that when speed increases on any kind of bike. The risk of danger increases too. Motorcycles are 28x more likely to be in a fatal wreck per mile compared to a car. Bicycles are 2 - 3x more likely. (again, cars make it dangerous). Where are cat3 ebikes going to sit unregulated after another decade?
Good talk btw.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
The weight limit idea may ultimately be too restrictive on cargo bikes. It's tricky, because you don't want a ton of momentum on sidewalks due to pedestrians. Some research would be nice here on where bike weight becomes a problem at various speeds, it's quite possible that at 15mph, no weight limit is even necessary, in which case an ideal law would mean motorcycles could just go slow on sidewalks...
The Netherlands recently has had an uptick of deaths on ebikes, alongside an increase in ebikes that are class 2 or class 3 (not really legal there as bicycles, but not everyone follows the law), so even good infrastructure may not ultimately be sufficient to prevent deaths from inexperienced riders with too much speed.
Notably, motorcycle statistics tend to suggest that it's new riders not yet used to a bike's power that are the ones dying, and I wouldn't be surprised if ebikes have similar patterns.
I doubt Class 3 will go without needing a license in most of the US for another decade (though I would be very surprised if it got regulated in my state), it's simply a little much and also going to run into trouble when infrastructure advocates argue for lowering speed limits and there's 'ebikes' (that I think should just be called emopeds at these speeds) going over those lowered limits...
stormdelta@reddit
I've seen little evidence that other state's are actually planning to pass anything like NJ's corrupt political stunt of an ebike law, and NJ's law is already facing legal challenges last I checked.
Nor do I expect police to bother enforcing the NJ law (except against people they don't like, as usual for corrupt police departments).
SpinkickFolly@reddit
Give it time. I think any state just needs a bad accident with a child getting killed on an "ebike" for some sweeping regulations to come through like what happened in NJ.
In NJ, law makers literally cited the two girls getting intentionally murdered by a 17yo as one of the reasons to pass the law just because they were on ebikes on a side street when they were attacked.
I understand the laws are barely enforced against vehicles that can easily kill entire families when handled improperly as the cost of doing business. It doesn't change that more regulations on all ebikes would severely cripple its growth.
Even if all the laws are unenforced against ebikes, it will affect all accidents moving forward. If you are riding without papers, you are on the hook for the accident whether it was your fault or not.
MRS1R669@reddit
I just wanna say , i just got a ebike to move around fishing spots faster and haul gear while at the parks today almost every bike i seen was a ebike i dont remember seeing tht many last year maybe its just me idk tho but there where so many !!
KaboodleMoon@reddit
Bro I got my first ebike 6 years ago, and have NEVER had a driver's license. I've technically owned 3 cars though.
I'm 40.
(For the record, I had my permit since i was 15 and can drive fine. But with a SAHW and special needs kids, we couldn't afford 2 cars, so there was never a reason for me to have my license that made sense. The best argument was "If I need to go to the hospital" and like, there's other options that are better anyway)
Subject-Divide-5977@reddit
In my State in Australia our State Government has introduced legislation limiting ebikrs to ten kilometres per hour in shared areas. We have extensive bikeways that are shared areas. 10kmh is not fast enough to stay upright. They also require a driver's licence to ride one. They are stiffling the introduction.
b4ub4u@reddit
We're 63 & 73 and just purchased our first e bike and trike.
Fire_Power@reddit
If they stopped making every ebike illegal then yea
Kinetic_Symphony@reddit
They're making ebikes illegal?
I thought it was like cars that can go faster than the speed limit. Doing so is illegal, but the car itself is not.
Epledryyk@reddit
this is how I personally think they should work, but alas
I'm in canada and my bike is hard-limited to 32 km/h, and funny enough my other bike is somehow stuck on european firmware that the bike store can't seem to fix and so it only goes 24 km/h
I pedal my acoustic bike faster than that, haha
Odd_Structure1312@reddit
My ebike is limited to 18mph. But in addition to that if I'm going flat or downhill I -cant- pedal faster. It will not go any faster despite me trying. It's weird. It'll coast faster downhill, but I can't encourage speed with pedaling like a regular bike.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
Not illegal itself, but treated like mopeds are in most states, with effectively the same restrictions as cars and motorcycles. We have been here before:
"But the good days didn’t last. Lawmakers began to consider the safety issues raised when a vehicle with such a low top speed (often not even 30mph) mingles with normal traffic (acceleration at stop lights was a big problem). There were some accidents; not as many as with motorcycles, but there were a lot more safety laws for motorcyclists–including helmet requirements. And in an accident, the rider always seemed to lose. Furthermore, the police became troubled by the fact that, with licensing optional in most states, they were a good means of transportation for people who’d had their driver's licenses revoked. Resulting legislation greatly increased restrictions on them. Alas, public perception changed too: The novelty wore off, and sales leveled, then declined, then dropped off the map. Mopeds were dead."
Kinetic_Symphony@reddit
Why would that worry the police?
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
Say someone's repeatedly gotten drunk and run over pedestrians, and now, with their license revoked, they're driving their moped to the bar regularly and coming back on it...
Kinetic_Symphony@reddit
Someone who ran over pedestrians while drunk would be in prison.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
They didn't necessarily provably do both at the same time. The US is very lenient on running over pedestrians (and even moreso cyclists) while not drunk.
Ranccor@reddit
Yeah, some places are passing/attempting to pass legislation that targets the vehicle itself. For example, in New Jersey now you are required to have a license and register your e-bike (get plates) and on-line e-bike sales are not allowed.
Kinetic_Symphony@reddit
Ah, well, it's New Jersey, not exactly shocking there.
But for any kind of ebike? Or only those physically capable of exceeding Class 3?
Ranccor@reddit
Jersey specifically it is anything class 2 or above, I think.
stormdelta@reddit
On paper, in practice it's all ebikes because the law is literally impossible to comply with. The whole thing is little more than a corrupt political stunt to benefit bike share spinoffs of companies like Lyft, and is already rightfully facing legal challenges.
It's not going to be enforced by police anyways except as yet another excuse to harass minorities.
Ranccor@reddit
I bet the DMV (or whatever they call it there) is working to figure out how to register and plate the bones. New income stream for the TAXMAN.
But agree, will 100% be used as a way to hassle people by the police.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
No, license needed even for Class 1. Insurance is 2 and above.
inline-online@reddit
is your argument that ebikes are cars? lol if ebikes were regulated and licensed like cars then this analogy would be valid but they aren't. The reason why cars are sold to go illegal speeds is because of all those regulations, rules, and licensing
this subreddit is like a wasteland of the dumbest opinions ever, who are you people?
stormdelta@reddit
Driver's licenses are so watered down that this argument is only barely relevant. We all know tons of people are allowed to drive that obviously shouldn't be, and courts are terrified of actually suspending licenses due to how car-centric a lot of cities are. Even if they do, people tend to drive without a license.
It's one of the reasons why crippling the nascent ebike industry would be incredibly stupid from a safety POV. You want people who shouldn't be driving to use other forms of transit.
And relative risk is a thing - an ebike is less dangerous to others than a mildly distracted driver no matter how irresponsibly they ride.
Kinetic_Symphony@reddit
No? Cars could always go faster than speed limits even before consistent regulations.
People who value freedom more than safety, that's all. Calling us dumb isn't productive, because you're not even trying to see the other side.
inline-online@reddit
yes that caused regulations to happen which you don't want, stupid point you just self destructed it
and you are dumb because of lack of ability to view thinks outside of your perspective, classic dumb guy behavior
thephotoman@reddit
We have some ways to go, but I have reason to hope that by 2050, we’ll have an adequate veloweb. It’s even getting state highway funding.
I want to try biking to the office this week. I know it’s possible: I’ve dry run the route. Problem: the weather looks gnarly.
InfluenceEfficient77@reddit
Not if the boomers get their way regulating the shit out of ebikes. Soon you'll need to pay insurance and DMV registration fees
Relative-Display-676@reddit
That's not boomers fault, that's the bike riders on emotos acting like a morons. Boomers are the ones who use ebikes for recreation, hunting and fishing.
PickleAlly@reddit
Boomers with their big booty back rest seats 😂
Odd_Structure1312@reddit
-thats- why people think imma boomer when I'm out there? I just like the comfort seat 😢
InfluenceEfficient77@reddit
Ok the Karens then.
No matter what laws or regulations are passed. It will never be enough for them because it breaks their way of life of driving their suv to to the mall or the hiking trail and being scared of mechanical contraptions when they are outside the said suv
zeizkal@reddit
OK well I think its good to have a cap, because at a certain speed theres not much of a distinction between an ebike and a motorcycle. If it can hit the same speed it can send the rider flying the same distance. It becomes a serious hazard especially when alot of these riders arent following laws such as taking 40 mph bikes on sidewalks or keeping their non street legal bikes off the street. We've enjoyed the wild west of ebikes as the technology behind it blew up while the legal process lagged behind. Regulation was always gonna come the strong they became and honestly its a necessity with how heavy and powerful some of these bikes are becoming. The correct path here is pushing for more bike friendly cities and towns so that ebikes especially ones that push certain speeds can have a safer place to ride. Yes drivers will always be pissy that they dont have the entire road, its been like that since cars became the main mode of transportation.
nicktodorov@reddit
We simply need proper classification and bans for throttle electric motorcycles with fake pedals. Because this is exactly what they are. Ebike is what Europe uses - the bosch/shimano/amflow assisted ones. Even if they are modified illegally to go above 25, it still requires rider effort and is way difficult to recklessly speed all the time...
stormdelta@reddit
Banning throttles will solve nothing except make ebikes less practical and alienating a huge number of people for no reason. Class 2 ebikes are already limited to the same power and speed as a class 1.
InfluenceEfficient77@reddit
Like I said literally throttles are going to get the treatment of magazine release buttons or whatever.
It makes no sense to ban them, they're really useful when needed.
WrestlingDadPA@reddit
On reddit everything is the boomers fault, and generally boomers are everyone over like 35...because in this place where everyone hates on the boomers, most seem to not actually have any idea what a boomer is.
Relative-Display-676@reddit
exactly, most boomers are dead by now.
Legitimate_Guava3206@reddit
There are something like 800M Boomers till out there worldwide. \~65M in the USA still.
zeizkal@reddit
Yes!!! Made the cut by a year!
BoringBob84@reddit
I agree. It is blatant tribalism: Find a group of "others" and judge them by the worst among them. Judge ourselves by the best among us. This way, we never have to take responsibility for our problems. They are all someone else's fault.
stormdelta@reddit
Real problems don't justify bad laws and double standards on safety, and the most reckless idiot on an ebike is less of a threat to others than a mildly distracted driver.
jedadkins@reddit
I mean let's be honest here, it's both. Yeah idiots on illegal bikes draw the attention of regulators. But boomers are the main reason other electric micro mobility options (scooters, skateboard, etc.) get banned but ebikes don't, because they ride ebikes. Honestly one of the biggest issues I see with how while regulations are rolling out is that they are still treating ebikes as recreational equipment or toys instead of legit transportation options.
DonnPT@reddit
As u/Relative-Display-676 says, that's because of ebike riders, but I don't think it's just emotos. Curb rental ebikes are probably numerically the source of more complaints, and those things sure aren't emotos.
Basically it's lowering the threshold for bicycling. Lower threshold means more knotheads, so more friction with society.
Making them more expensive and restricted raises thresholds. If there were fewer people looking to get into an ebike for $500 or less, there would probably be fewer ebikers terrorizing pedestrians on the public sidewalk. If you have to get an insurance policy and pay for a DMV inspection, what's the point of saving a couple hundred bucks on the bike. Knotheads are why we can't have good things.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
NJ's highly-restrictive ebike law literally exempts curb rental ebikes from needing a license. You couldn't be more wrong.
DonnPT@reddit
You're telling me that legislation can allow casual use of ebikes? No, that really doesn't come as a surprise.
It isn't the only place rentals get a break. Helmet laws where they exist, either exempt or unenforced. City programs for rental trotinette style foot scooters are a scandal. In the case I'm acquainted with, no one can explain why the companies are allowed to operate the way they do, and part of the problem is again bystander injuries.
I'm not saying what municipalities will do. They have their priorities, which may or may not be pedestrians, boomers, bikers, or anyone you know. I'm mainly just suggesting a connection between casual use and societal discontent, that can result in annoying legislation.
InfluenceEfficient77@reddit
So what's the solution, making the bikes expensive and exclusive will need to reach? Kind of like you can be homeless as long as you own a sprinter
lee1026@reddit
EU e-bike rules are way stricter than their US counterparts, what are you talking about? Whether it’s a good idea is something else, but it is just a fact that the bulk of US e-bikes would be illegal in EU for too much power, speed, and usually both.
DonnPT@reddit
It sure could be a solution, if you're a pedestrian or someone with the money. If the situation in your city doesn't work for everyone, and someone has to lose, it shouldn't be pedestrians, am I right?
InfluenceEfficient77@reddit
What happens to shared paths?
Any bike paths in the parks are shared, why shouldn't it be everywhere with appropriate speed limits?
If you can ride your e-bike on the sidewalk if there is not bike lane at 5mph, it should be fine.
DonnPT@reddit
I mean, if there aren't problems, then there shouldn't be regulations. I don't live where you live - I don't have to ride on the sidewalk, I don't see anyone causing trouble with ebikes, I'm not pushing for regulations. I'm just looking at what's probably coming if an "E-bike generation" really arrives.
InfluenceEfficient77@reddit
Ahh then you must look at the r/San Francisco
Every day some Karen is going on about how legal ebikes need to be banned because people have to hop on curbs because the streets are trashed and no bike lanes exist
Like there are no bigger problems in sf
DonnPT@reddit
That's just proactively getting ready for the E-bike generation. It wouldn't be cool to allow them to spend their hard earned $500 for ebikes and then come down on them.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
"But the good days didn’t last. Lawmakers began to consider the safety issues raised when a vehicle with such a low top speed (often not even 30mph) mingles with normal traffic (acceleration at stop lights was a big problem). There were some accidents; not as many as with motorcycles, but there were a lot more safety laws for motorcyclists–including helmet requirements. And in an accident, the rider always seemed to lose. Furthermore, the police became troubled by the fact that, with licensing optional in most states, they were a good means of transportation for people who’d had their driver's licenses revoked. Resulting legislation greatly increased restrictions on them. Alas, public perception changed too: The novelty wore off, and sales leveled, then declined, then dropped off the map. Mopeds were dead."
chocolateboomslang@reddit
Ebikes suck for dropping your kids off at school.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
That's what those cargo bikes with the cargo area in front of you are for. They're just super expensive in the US.
Odd_Structure1312@reddit
We got a lectric xpedition and it can hold 3 kids on the back. I got it on sale for 1600.
Southern_Ad9514@reddit
not when it rains. but my commute is 60miles 1 way . and I got a lot of stuff I carry with me
jjohanss@reddit
Yes. CArs were never a good idea. We all know it but will never succumb to it in our lifetimes. Efficiency wins out in the end. Nobody should use 4k lbs of glorified steam engine to get groceries..
VideoLeoj@reddit
It’s going to vary based on location. I live in Middle Tennessee. Most people here hate the few bike lanes that we do have here and say that they’re the cause of Al of the auto traffic. “They’re taking up too much space, and no one uses them…”.
Except, I use them. And I see other people use them. Perhaps they aren’t used as much as they could be, but they are used. I think/hope that fuel prices will cause a lot of these smooth brains to grow some wrinkles and figure out that e-bikes, and bikes in general, can be a valid form of transportation, and that there is huge value in a properly functioning public transportation infrastructure.
Legitimate_Guava3206@reddit
People are crazy. I was backing up a big truck and blocking traffic for about \~30 seconds recently.
You should have seen how hot one guy got over that \~30 seconds. He's likely to have a heart attack one of these days with that attitude.
I do worry about that type of guy and myself on a bike mixing in traffic. He might get impatient and run someone like me off the road. I've already had episodes with other people. Had a pickup truck try to run me into the curb b/c he wouldn't move over a few feet (three lanes, we were the only ones out there, he had plenty of room). Had a couple of inches between the curb my tire, and less than an inch between his big mirror and my handlebar.
Substantial-Oil-7050@reddit
OMG…..you lived my nightmare.
slomobileAdmin@reddit
True. I live on a twisty, hilly, historic narrow 2 lane, shoulderless, tree covered road that is beautiful to bike on(they race on it every year) but terrible to be stuck behind a string of bikes going up a hill with a curve at the top. Double yellow the entire way, no passing zones. But the bicyclists are happy to wave you by. Ignorant to the fact that if a vehicle around that curve is coming towards us, rather than getting my family struck head on, I will have to veer into a column of anonymous bikers. Now, in addition to the semipro, bright spandex, aero helmet, carbon fiber crowd practicing on my daily commute, we have e-bikes, and lately strollers. Frankly, I'd love to take my power wheelchair on that route. I just can't also justify it as a van driver. Originally I thought these non cars ought to get off the road. Now, if there were an an alternate car route (current nearest is extra 20 miles) I'd say it is the cars that should go and return the road to its wagon trail roots.
slomobileAdmin@reddit
Um. Nevermind. Just remembered lots of the big fancy houses on this road with very fancy cars and trucks only have access to this one road. If their cars couldn't get by, their multi million dollar homes wouldn't be worth much.
snowy_vix@reddit
They don't see traffic pulled up in them so they assume they aren't on use, ignoring that bikes just don't get into traffic jams as easily as cars
mettarific@reddit
I agree. I live in Wisconsin, fairly rural. Every young guy here dreams of owning a truck. That’s all they want. They can’t imagine riding bikes, even e-bikes.
I think what will force change will be astronomical gas prices, as you said. The spike in gas prices in the seventies got everyone out of Chevy Bel Aires and into Novas.
RodsofGod2350@reddit
This is where the 15-minute cities come to mind.
pleakonfleek@reddit
I can’t walk anywhere in 15 minutes from my house but I can get to a huge array of stores and restaurants in 15 minutes on my ebike.
SexiestPanda@reddit
Now if only I could safely park my bike at those places….
Substantial-Oil-7050@reddit
Just call me OCD. I have 2 locks when I go shopping. One through the rear wheel, the other through the frame to an immovable object. Yep..
marquis_de_ersatz@reddit
Yeah I'm too scared to leave mine anywhere. I need a fully enclosed locker. Maybe car parks will start to catch up and introduce paid bike lockers. I'd use them.
Japparbyn@reddit
This is the main one right now
CraziFuzzy@reddit
And CAN be handled on a case by case basis. I will be talking to the local grocery store manager shortly about improving the bike rack situation at their just remodeled store.
Vegetable_Network310@reddit
Sure, that's part of the mindset although the planners probably figure on public transit. Ebike can get you out of that 15 minute radius almost as easily as a car, depending upon what kind of assist you're using, battery capacity and so on.
Anything that gives the individual more control over their transportation and basic needs is a very good thing both for the individual and IMO for everybody.
But then I don't like government so it's obvious where I'm coming from and my personal bias.
1800-5-PP-DOO-DOO@reddit
$700 car payments and income that hasn't gone up since the 70's is my guess.
nippleflick1@reddit
US is a different animal, may work in cities... but a huge country, even suburbs, can be far.
yeffyonson@reddit
Short answer: No
I'm an avid ebiker and live in AZ and would never want to commute via ebike during the summer.
Jack_Scrambles@reddit
No. Americans do not want to be outside much less riding bikes as actual transportation. Urban cycling is reviled by much of the population.
Ebikeboi@reddit
I'm a pensioner who can't afford a car and I have to say ebikes are a great alternative. Much cheaper, much more fun, and did I mention cheaper. Legit the bike itself costs as much brand new as a second hand lemon car, and costs pennies to run because it uses less than 1kwh to fully charge and get 30km of range under the least ideal conditions (44 going a bit slower and over fewer hills.) and on top of that I can keep up with most traffic in built up areas because the speed limit is 50km/h and my bike goes 60km/h
psych2099@reddit
I think the rising cost of petrol is doing that already.
tsigwing@reddit
How’s it work in the rain and snow?
Bronze_Age_472@reddit
No Americans only respond to the price of gas and their pocketbook
Jeff_Pagu@reddit
It also depends where you live. Here in so cal you need a car, at least I do. Some people can get away with it but there’s a reason they sell ebike rates hitch racks.
LiveCheesecake6080@reddit
Car prices aren't hurting either...
genbud1@reddit
I wish I had owned a bunch of stock in Volcon.
TheEvilBlight@reddit
It’ll be sustained unaffordability of cars
ellipticorbit@reddit
In some geographies walking even a few blocks is seen as undesirable and laughably eccentric. Despite there being zero barriers to it. So it's unlikely that pod people will change their mindsets due to any technology. The issue is between the ears.
Strong_Tour4724@reddit
Been commuting by ebike for 3 years every day and now I only drive when im sick... I am noticing now my co-workers. Are jumping onboard and I see so many more bikers on the road. Now, then when I got my bike three years ago... In the future most of us who can commute by bike will
flipside4cp@reddit
They’re probably going to try to regulate us into the ground if we get too much traction.
Accountbegone69@reddit
In my area of greater Vancouver, it's not bikes technology that's holding it back but rahther cycling infrastructure. Vancouver proper has made some decent advances but the Fraser Valley is still a hodgepodge of bike paths
LopsidedGiraffe@reddit
10 years ago, i really admired the huge e motor bike (ie no pedals) use in China. Its so quiet and energy efficient. They would plug in while shopping and working (i assume they paid a parking fee). I looked for an electric scooter when back in Australia and couldnt find any.
JustTheBeerLight@reddit
The cost of owning and operating a car keeps going up in the US. I have 30 years of a clean driving record snd my insurance keeps going up. I think a lot of families will go to being a one car household. Bikes, ebikes and scooters are way more efficient ways to get around town.
my_age_88forshort@reddit
Absolutely not. Most people have no desire to get on an e bike for fun let alone buy one for their main mode of transportation.
Ask your family and friends and see what they have to say.
godzillabobber@reddit
I have been riding bikes along side cars for 50 years. Half of all trips have been bike. And in the seven years of ebiking, it has been 90%. We went through three tanks of gas last year. My total automotive expenses (vehicle cost, insurance, license, maintenence, repairs, tires, etc.) are $900 a year. Most families spend that in a month. If the internet averages are correct, our household saves $10,000 a year. For my grandkid, that could be money for a house down-payment. It seems a better path forward than giving up lattes and avocado toast.
There are predictions that global ebike sales will eclipse automobiles by the end of the decade. That is bound to change the equation.
rjlawrencejr@reddit
The discussion of folks in their early 20s not having driver licenses has been discussed for at least a decade when late millennials and early Gen Z were eligible to drive. I really think it’s where you live. In my circle, at most I see a delay until 18.
fatdjsin@reddit
Lol, come to canada for one winter and your question might loose support really quickly, its fun during the summer, useless during the winter
FormalTheory@reddit
feels like it fills a new space tbh, not a car substitute but a faster, lighter way to get around cities
mikeatx79@reddit
Probably not, but oil and electricity prices might.
Laserdollarz@reddit
Wow the AI bots are referencing other AI bot posts now, we've got lore forming
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
Lots of highly-upvoted posts lately with an OP whose post history is privated...
HotLandscape9755@reddit
Yeah cause reddit is full of weirdos who go stalk someones post history for a 3 year old post so they can go “”gotcha!”
Laserdollarz@reddit
Half the people here would talk to a wall if the wall had a poster of an ebike.
HotLandscape9755@reddit
Can an ebike carry everything i buy or need moved? No.
snowy_vix@reddit
I never drove in the first place for a variety of reasons, but my ebike replaced 90% of my car usage via delivery apps and basically all of my rideshare usage (i think I used Uber once since i got my ebikes, specifically due to wanting to still get to my gym in sub-zero temps)
SAHairyFun@reddit
It depends on the location. Where I am, the e-bike generation is mostly men in their 50s on bike trails.
espressocycle@reddit
I don't know but New Jersey just passed a law requiring license and registration to operate any electric-assisted bicycle plus insurance if you have a throttle. Florida is looking to do the same. I wouldn't be surprised if the automotive lobby is secretly backing these laws across the country.
WinterTourist@reddit
You really need proper infrastructure for (e) bikes, to keep them out of traffic. Look up "not just bikes" on YouTube for example.
I take my folding ebike on the train, then cycle the last 4km to work. Every day. In nice weather I may skip the station and stretch it to 10km going home, before hopping on the train again. Prefer that to driving.
By car takes the same time with traffic.
Dry_Fennel5701@reddit
people were saying the same thing 15 years ago minus the ebikes
m2keo@reddit
I doubt it. It's gonna be the same and be country specific I think. Countries like the US will remain car dominant and certain countries that got their shit figured out such as the Netherlands will remain optimal for all modes of transportation.
Calm_Blackberry_4328@reddit
I hope so! Thats certainly goal to prioritize biking or public transit!
Gizmorum@reddit
You do know this is because were in a recession and young people cannot afford a car or insurance anymore? Not all cities have become bike friendly and youths are having to spend money on a hobby that takes them outside
YesCzer17@reddit
Probably not in America, there just aren't enough roadways that I feel safe enough to take on an e-bike at 30ish mph. I am lucky enough to have a decent bike trail system that can take me to two of the closest towns but if I need to go anywhere besides that I am taking my car.
sophie-turnerr@reddit
it is mostly an economic reality rather than a pure cultural shift.. car insurance for a young person is insane right now and the used car market never really recovered.. when a reliable ebike costs the same as two months of car payments and insurance the choice is pretty much made for them
FlyinDtchman@reddit
Yeah, the numbers just don't make sense anymore...
The prices of vehicles have gotten ridiculous... The price of insurance is EVEN MORE ridiculous and the populations has become increasingly urbanized.
I put 300 miles on my car last year... And I put 1200 miles on my E-bike.
tritiated_again@reddit
I think the affordability crisis will make car ownership a luxury that younger generations will avoid. The e bike is a stop gap to affordability and autonomous mobility
Significant-Pen-6049@reddit
New rules recently will ruin that
Duct_TapeOrWD40@reddit
Not for me. I have a motorcycle licence. So If they take away my powerless Ebike I go back on a Kawasaki Ninja-E.
Significant-Pen-6049@reddit
Those crotch rockets are loud asf on the highway by my house. Surrouns and other electric motorcycles will be awesome one day if they took over the crowd
Duct_TapeOrWD40@reddit
The Ninja-E is electric. A full size electric bike limited to "only" 60 mph.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
"But the good days didn’t last. Lawmakers began to consider the safety issues raised when a vehicle with such a low top speed (often not even 30mph) mingles with normal traffic (acceleration at stop lights was a big problem). There were some accidents; not as many as with motorcycles, but there were a lot more safety laws for motorcyclists–including helmet requirements. And in an accident, the rider always seemed to lose. Furthermore, the police became troubled by the fact that, with licensing optional in most states, they were a good means of transportation for people who’d had their driver's licenses revoked. Resulting legislation greatly increased restrictions on them. Alas, public perception changed too: The novelty wore off, and sales leveled, then declined, then dropped off the map. Mopeds were dead."
Melodic-Matter4685@reddit
In USA? No. We designed our neighborhoods around cars. But some areas are changing, drivers kicking and screaming
drone6391@reddit
I agree with you. Vastness of area and distance in the US is really what makes so many things different between Europe and the USA. However I feel like e-bikes are getting a large part of our population outside and back on bikes. Just not for commuting and more for recreation.
Legitimate_Guava3206@reddit
Most of our USA miles are 10 miles back and forth to work or the grocery store. Trips out of town are \~150 miles. During a recent discussion my coworker started - many of them choose to drive an hour to work. Several of us choose <30 min. Several us choose <10 min.
It has more to do with how people structure their lives than the size of the USA. My friend lives in the largest city in our state. His driving is \~5 miles back and forth to work and home. My sibling and their spouse choose to drive an hour or more back and forth to work. Heavy interstate traffic, long commutes in large vehicles that use alot of fuel.
My wife and I could have chosen to build our lives in a large metro area with huge commutes and many miles per year. We chose to live in-between those big cities and live in a smaller town. I argue that our income is much the same, our expenses are lower, and the quality of our life better. Not as exciting but that's okay. We visit the big metros for events.
patricles22@reddit
No, you’re thinking about this in a vacuum. People outside of major cities sometimes need to commute distances that are not really feasible on ebikes, and that’s if the weather is good. Public transit is nowhere near up to the task in most places.
Not to mention, many people need larger vehicles to accommodate at least one passenger, if not more
Pork-pilot@reddit
I read a report from a US based emissions and energy agency that said that E-Bikes have had a greater impact on gas consumption and emissions than electric cars did.
While an ebike didn’t remove the need for a car in all cases, it did replace many car-centric trips. And an electric car is still a giant vehicle that uses an immense amount of energy. People being able to use small electric bikes to do easy errands instead of using a car has been so incredibly impactful!!
Bottom line; even if ebike doesn’t completely replace your car entirely, it replaces some of the trips you’d use a car for and that makes a big difference! I imagine this will have slow long-term impacts like building of more bike centric infrastructure (which is happening where I live, but these things take time)
Very interesting and I’ll link the report if I can find it.
QuillsROptional@reddit
The answers you'll get in this sub will definitely be skewed.
I think for many people, cars can be replaced for some jobs, but definitely not all.
Not to sound too conspiratorial, but many politicians are doing everything they can to limit private car ownership. (This is coming from a Norwegian living in Norway and is in no way influenced by whoever happens to occupy the huge desk in the Oval Office)
I have seen very few e-bikes that can protect the riders from the weather in the same way a car can. And that's a big factor in large parts of the world.
Legitimate_Guava3206@reddit
My perspective from a red state USA address is that the gov't here is trying to limit EV ownership. Limit EV vehicles and ebikes.
They want to lock us into driving ICE vehicles. I don't think they'll ever remove private vehicles from people's daily lives b/c the ICEV are so expensive (total cost of ownership) and benefit too many political donors - car manufacturers, road builders, tire companies, gasoline and oil companies, oil change companies, dealers, etc.
DonnPT@reddit
Weather protection, hazard protection, capacity. Car requirements vary a lot depending on your circumstances. Substitution with ebike works well for some set of infrequent car users - like, you can walk most places, and the hassle to get to others isn't quite worth owning a car. The more you use the car, the narrower the substitution overlap. I don't see it making a big dent.
Epledryyk@reddit
yeah, I've lived in the walkable middle of the city and in the suburbs and everywhere in between and the truth is having a car is just nice
my parents live 3 hours away in one direction and the inlaws live 2 hours away the other direction, so at minimum we need a car to ever see our families again (there's no busses and no airports there, and I'm certainly not riding my ebike 300km in an afternoon). or skiing or biking (we have a hitch rack to take our ebikes to the mountains to start riding there) or camping or hiking, etc.
it's merely nice to go to costco or ikea or home depot and carry home big items. I know there's people with cargo bikes and trailers and they carry some impressive things and that's wonderful, but also: I don't wanna do that. the revealed preference of parking lots says that very few people do.
it snows here 8 months out of the year and heated seats are great. I've ridden in the dark, I've ridden on ice, I've navigated where the snowplows push all the road snow onto the bike lanes. I've fallen hard when your front wheel slips out from under you instantly. I feel like I've 'done my time' as it were, and now I'm happy to report that that time is merely behind me. it's treacherous.
I dunno. I love my bikes. I love riding. also: I love my car. I love driving. they're merely different things for different uses and I'm not sure they really significantly eat into each others' share that much
Sandy-the-Gypsy777@reddit
Good article in the NYTs today about how there are no more cheap, starter, or commuter cars any more. And no one can afford them unless you are willing to go into serious debt. Plus now we have extremely high gas prices, with no end in sight. E-bikes are now a game changer.
aggreeswithassholes@reddit
The ebike accomplishes what the Segway set to achieve in the early 2000's.
The US cycling infrastructure is so inefficient that you need a small motor for the avg American to use a bicycle for daily transportation.
The biggest benefit to society from ebikes IMO, is that they keep the drunks off the road.
fretlessMike@reddit
I'm wondering if they young generation is just slow to mature. They still ride scooters into adulthood.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
There is no real such thing as maturing (there is nothing inherently childish about riding a scooter), but there is a growing infantilization of teenagers and adults, as our society has decided you should be the exact same until age 18 (and allowed no peer interactions without adult monitoring, preventing adult activities, before 18), while the critical period is around 16 for deciding how your adult self will be different from your child self.
bassvel@reddit
SnooFloofs3486@reddit
No. Motorcycles and bicycles have been around for ages.
Income gap will be the reason.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
Everyone forgets about mopeds...
Own-Locksmith7607@reddit
This oil crisis will only help e-bike adoption. I just got one and plan to use it for short trips around town so I can spare my gasoline for longer trips.
Hortos@reddit
Car ownership is dropping because cars are expensive and young people are broke. Wages too low price too high. Also we've kind of destroyed the entire concept of 3rd spaces for anyone under 21 except in a few urban centers.
HurinGray@reddit
Don't forget car insurance. One year of car insurance that 16 year old kid can afford a quality eBike.
unseenmover@reddit
with the avg cost of a car nearing 50k and with a payment around $700 to 1k...and gas @ $6..ill ride when and if i can instead of crime.
Legitimate_Guava3206@reddit
It may be more about saving money in the long run. Buying trucks/SUVs is expensive. TCO is mind boggling compared to the cost of a $2500 electric bicycle.
We won't ever do this b/c we are living rural and need two cars BUT I could imagine having one vehicle and one bike if we lived closer to town. We did one car, one motorcycle \~25 years ago and that worked well enough.
If we had separated bike paths here that were safe places to ride, I would happily ride to work most days. About \~10 hilly miles from home to work but a few parts of the ride are sketchy. Also my wife has some health issues, if I needed to get home RIGHT NOW - I can't do that on an ebike.
What I can do though is pedal more, drive less reducing my transport cost and making our cars last longer.
JeremyFromKenosha@reddit
Good call. They don't feel this need to have a car like we did. They don't seem to have the drive my generation (X) had either, though. I think what we'll see is a couple living in the city will share one car more often, and sometimes, maybe even just have a pair of eBikes.
It's harder with kids though, and with the drivers who ARE out there killing us.
DoTheRightThing1953@reddit
Perhaps in some places but not in the US because of the distances we have to drive. We've built cities friendly to cars but not much else.
No_Biscotti3694@reddit
I think it depends on the area. Some areas still have very bike unfriendly roads and really far travel times. But I could see areas where cars aren't necessarily needed that ebikes will start to take over. I live in an area where I cant bike to work because its too far but grocery shopping/ getting food etc is very bikeable only a few miles max. I just bought an ebike and plan on biking more to get food especially on nice days and gas prices skyrocketing.
ShutYourDumbUglyFace@reddit
I have a 16-year-old and an 18-year-old and they are/were pretty excited to get their licenses. One barrier to the older one getting an ebike is that they will not let the batteries in the college dorms - she can't charge it. She uses mine when she's home (she has her analog bike at school) and she really likes it. The younger one is just a little less "motivated" than the older one and wants to drive. I completely understand - we live in the suburbs and have a lot of stroads that she'd have to navigate.
CraziFuzzy@reddit
I don't know about the "e-bike" generation, but I'm a gen x'er and just rode my new e-bike into work an hour ago for the first time after making the same commute by car for 18 years. I don't think it will reduce my car ownership, but it will certainly reduce my vmt.
ShredGuru@reddit
Massive poverty is why
GTgirly0628@reddit
If that truly is the case, then good. Cars can be useful for long commutes but otherwise have too many cons. Plus e-bikes are slightly healthier for you because at least you're moving your body in some way.
Dapper_Challenge2179@reddit
Not in the states, way too hard to get around and too much distance. Plus you have the whole passenger thing, going out somewhere, carrying big items, bad weather etc. I use mine as a second car replacement but have a car that's also used. My wife has zero interest in riding and honestly I don't know if I would trust her on one lol
imrzzz@reddit
Where I live, car ownership has been optional across much of the country for a long time.
But having some kind of bicycle is really not optional (it is, but it's very inconvenient to live without one).
Is your question aimed at one region in the world?
FuckedUpYearsAgo@reddit
I think there is a shift—but not quite for the reason people are pointing to. The U.S. is just too geographically spread out for e-bikes to replace cars at scale. They work great in dense pockets, but most of the country still requires long distances, highways, and weather tolerance that bikes can’t realistically cover. What has changed is attention. A decade ago, a car meant freedom. Now, a phone already delivers constant entertainment, social connection, and autonomy without needing to go anywhere. Sitting in traffic feels like dead time compared to being on your phone. So it’s less “e-bikes replacing cars” and more “cars losing their cultural pull.” In dense areas, e-bikes fill the gap. Everywhere else, people just feel less urgency to drive at all.
meatshieldjim@reddit
Getting the city to properly plow bike lanes during the winter will be a key change. The threat of spend $5 on bike lanes rather than more car lanes will get the chuds yelling at city council meetings. Add to that the car dealerships bribing...I mean offering good deals to candidates will be a further hurdle.
Ok-Many4195@reddit
Car ownership will drop slightly and bike ownership will explode due to the oil crisis. People just don't realize the magnitude of the crisis yet. The 1970 oil crisis occurred when they simply just stopped selling oil. The current situation is 10% of the world's infrastructure destroyed.
There was a boom of bicycle ownership in the 1970's where americans bought like 3x as much bicycles because gas cost too much.
Vegetable_Network310@reddit
It's mostly the economy of ebikes and escooters vs using a car. But it's also liberating to just get around so easily without needing a licence or worrying about much of anything except maybe a collision with another vehicle.
Of course that's an even bigger consideration for most people in a car. Only thing a car offers you is a better chance of walking away unhurt from a low impact collision.
I can afford to drive but if the weather is nice and I can get where I want to go on a bike or a scooter within a reasonable time frame, I'd just as soon do that.
I'm old and a lot of old people consider themselves too physically limited to ride even an ebike or escooter or maybe they just get lazy or stuck in their ways. Can't speak for other people.
But if I was a young person without a lot of money the first thing I'd try to do would be to arrange my life so I would not need a car. It makes a lot of sense. I just hope the government doesn't start overregulating ebikes just to get their piece of the action. Of course they'll do it for our "safety". That's always the excuse. "It's for the greater good"...never for you and me. We don't need their help. Just leave us alone.
that1tech@reddit
If gas prices continue, it will be a combination of high gas prices and e bikes.
7 years ago or so, a fellow bike commuter and I were talking about how bike riding increased in Seattle. They said something along on the lines of who knew it would be accessible e bikes that got people on bikes.
HiveMindSubmarine@reddit
No.
Defiant_Conflict6343@reddit
In the UK, most certainly. The laws haven't caught up at all and car ownership is a distant dream for many. The cost of running a car in the UK is extortionate for younger drivers, you're looking at spending well over a month of full-time income on lessons alone, then you have to get your theory, then a practical, then there's a minimum six-month wait that the government says is due to a COVID-induced backlog even though the backlog has existed for over 15 years at this point, then, provided you pass the practical test, you end up having to get an insurance plan that costs 3x as much as the car itself per year. The whole system has been geared to be a non-starter for the working-class just like homeownership. Everyone I know under 30 with a car got a lot of financial assistance from their parents.
Millions of people are using illegal e-bikes and e-scooters because they literally have no other choice. Cars are too expensive, public transport is too unreliable and doesn't service enough locations, and rental schemes for legal e-bikes are both extortionate and they typically lack the torque to scale any gradient.
NotASockPuppet88@reddit
No.
Ebikes will (and are) adopting all the corporate models the car industry has.
Including but not limited to:
Anti consumer behavior in the form of repair hostility and overpriced parts
Subscription models behind basic behavior
Huge initial cost to "own" when you hardly have ownership or control at all.
Moves like this have already occurred in the industry
First_Detective6234@reddit
My 13 year old son says at 16 he will take a surron over a car. I want to say thats just his age talking, but $4k one time and no insurance gas or tags sounds a lot nicer than the alternative
JoeS2727@reddit
Not where I'm at. I'm the winter, good luck getting anywhere with an E-bike. Plus, if you're not living in the cities, you're still going to take 3 business days to get anywhere. We're too geographically spread out.
MildlyAgitatedBovine@reddit
I think it's going to be more an issue if adding bikes and changing the transportation mix than stopping owning cars.
I used to have pickup (tree work, multiple people or stuff, winter) and motorcycle (everything else).
Now it's 4door ICE sedan and an electric motorcycle scooter 🛵. I still need a car to move groceries or baby or family. But now when it's just me or me and the 5yo, we have an option that doesn't drag around all the weight and use gas.
I have an ebike too, but honestly use it less once I got the 🛵. Ebike is better for me but 🛵 is faster and my time management is crap so...
Whiskeypants17@reddit
More people ride the subway a day in New York than drive to work in my state. 4.5 million a day. In fact most states. If we build cities for public transit, bikes or ebikes, people will use them.
BoringBob84@reddit
It is true, and I think it is a positive trend:
Source: Progressive Insurance
Anxiety about driving and economics seem to be major factors. And of course, in 1980 people had no internet on which to socialize and no ebikes to ride.
insuffcient_dopamine@reddit
I drop my daughter off at her bus stop, about 2 miles from my work. I am looking at an e-bike to toss in my truck. Then I can park and ride the rest of the way.
When she starts driving I can leave her the keys, or have her drop me closer to work.
When she goes to college, she can then take the e-bike. I am looking for an ugly one no one wants to steal lol.
aanderson2040@reddit
Depends on the city
inline-online@reddit
there is no ebike generation lol you're seeing things you want to see
none of this shit is true
Sawfish1212@reddit
For anyone living in dense urban areas it's a great solution to dealing with parking and traffic. About a decade ago I noticed that every take out type restaurant in Manhattan had a fleet of ebikes for food delivery and that this was the only smart way to deal with getting there quickly and not worrying about parking tickets.
I live near a major city that is investing in bike trails and lanes as this will encourage more people to ride instead of drive.
The downside is the junky batteries causing fires and causing insurance companies and landlords to ban storing ebikes inside.
ScoobyDooItInTheButt@reddit
Nah, the e bike generation is being created in response to a massive unequal wealth distribution forcing poor people's hands in late stage capitalism in an attempt to continue making money with the only affordable means of transportation. This is all on the capitalists.
WrestlingDadPA@reddit
If it were safer and it never rained, it would be great. I got my kids (12/14) E-Motos and they cruise around with their friends (I have to drive them to the housing developments with parks, etc.), and they ride around our property (60ish acres)... but as great as it would be I'd never let them ride the roads (even when they're car driving age) because living in rural america people drive like assholes on the back roads. There's no fixing that, americans in cars are greedy dicks and drive with anger and frustration and impatience all the time.
maydock@reddit
depends on the city and weather
weggaan_weggaat@reddit
No, the cost of driving will be what leads car ownership to start to drop.
JSSOnTheRun@reddit
Weather is the difference maker. As an e-bike owner I love the freedom my e-bike provides. However, when the weather is bad, the car always wins.
Fun_Exit6092@reddit
Not here. It is mostly people that used to ride the bus (they got rid of the bus), and teenagers who keep running into cars and breaking their bones.
Rattlingplates@reddit
No, e bikes replace small commutes.
BadNewzBears4896@reddit
No, but gas prices exploding because America elected a senile pedophile will be.
TheMaymar@reddit
I think if we're expecting younger people to herald a mass adoption of ebikes, there has to be some planning on how that works as they get older. As much as younger generations are having fewer children, it's still going to happen. A quality cargo bike is still a pretty pricy proposition, and family-friendly housing in a neighbourhood with plenty of amenities in biking distance is almost prohibitively expensive (and that's not getting into stronger regional transit to fill gaps that there's no reasonable expectation cycling would). Once you have a kid, it's difficult to avoid the pull of where the most homes are, and the car that's necessary to reach them.
BrokeAssZillionaire@reddit
Certainly not in Australia, some states are moving to ban them including electric scooters. Full ban for 16 year olds and any adult needs to have a drivers license, can’t have a throttle and can’t go faster than 23km/h - so very doubtful here.
Catsdrinkingbeer@reddit
No (at least not in the US). They serve different purposes. If someone is replacing a car with a bike, electric or otherwise, they're likely someone who already had a lifestyle where this was an option. I knew a couple who lived for years without a car - until one of them broke a leg. They bought a used prius. And after the leg healed? They kept the prius. They used it less, but recognized that for certain things it was just better to have a car.
Ebikes will replace certain activities for people, but I doubt there will be a shift in people giving up their cars because of ebikes. You'll just see more people with both.
demon_twink_gockie@reddit
Nah. It'll be boomers cuz they're causing the e bike generation to not be able to afford cars, resulting in more e bike adoption.
DrifterWI@reddit
What is the e-bike generation?
How did boomers cause the e-bike generation to not be able to afford cars?
demon_twink_gockie@reddit
Same way they made houses unaffordable.
DrifterWI@reddit
How did they make houses unaffordable?
demon_twink_gockie@reddit
You're free to research it. This is Reddit. Not a university debate
demon_twink_gockie@reddit
You're free to research it. This is Reddit, not a university debate.
Legitimate-Lab9077@reddit
I think it’s just old man yelling at the clouds
Kids that age haven’t really given a fuck about drivers license is for a very long time now
And for decades, at least going back to my childhood in the 80s. We got 90% of our. Commuting in social life done on bicycles before we got cars even if we had drivers license licenses.
Good E bikes will help reduce their reliance on cars, but you’re gonna need good infrastructure and good public transport to back all of that up
Unlucky_Battle_6947@reddit
Yes. And it’s about time.
yuiiooop@reddit
I hope its permanent. Less people on the road means less wear on the road. Also means car enthusiasts can enjoy it more.
ChristheCourier12@reddit
And less pot holes developing. Its why I got an ebike with fat tires. The magicycle cruiser pro eats pot holes like theyre nothing.
maximumpynk@reddit
No. If only it were that simple.
seweso@reddit
If cars didn’t exist no sane human would suggest something that unsustainable now.
The deaths, the destruction …. It’s not healthy in any way.
ThickWarthog2175@reddit
I think it’s a bit of both.
HG1998@reddit
Depending on where you are, it might be more prevalent than others. Around here in Germany, there are many cargo ebikes and many of those are used by families to get their kids around.
Most of them can fit two kids inside them and they obviously have ample amount of cargo space for groceries etc. Some Ikeas even offer rental ones to get furniture back home.
I'd go as far as to say that most people would rather look at a cargo ebike than at a car. They certainly are more attractive and cheaper for city use. In most cities, you wouldn't even be able to park a car and even a cargo ebike usually doesn't have a proper space.
Many businesses have also switched to them.