X3D or non-X3D?
Posted by CranberryLittle1417@reddit | buildapc | View on Reddit | 313 comments
Is there any big difference between X3D CPUs and non X3Ds? I personally own Ryzen 7 9800X3D and my friend (who was Intel) told me that I could have bought a better CPU, let's say non X3D version, just X. He also mentioned that X3D is necessary only in shooters, as they demand CPU power, like Counter-Strike 2 and other games. He mentioned that I could get Ryzen 7 9700X and I'd be fine.
I understand that AAA games usually use more GPU rather than CPU. But is difference between X3D and non-X3D CPUs that significant?
Individual-Ad5005@reddit
x3d is certaintly worth it if your goal is to have a very long lasting gaming pc. but honestly, for the money, if you don't play shooters, the regular x versions of the cpus are probably more worth it. the r7 9700x already gets like i7-14700k performance in video games
nemanja694@reddit
You friend is jealous that you have one of the best or the best cpu for games.
sjk971005@reddit
People (the friend) might be misinformed, no need to sabotage a friendship.
makoblade@reddit
Misinformation is probably worse than jealousy. Dumb friends are dangerous.
Crytaz@reddit
Not knowing cpu hardware cannot be that dangerous dude relax
makoblade@reddit
Why would it be isolated to cpu hardware.
CyborgDeskFan@reddit
But can be educated
Other_Examination886@reddit
hes not totally wrong. there are a few games only where you really need the 3d cache over a 9700x.
nitrogenlegend@reddit
Being confidently ignorant to that degree is almost always willful. Also, just because a friend is jealous of your CPU doesn’t mean you should stop talking to them…
Orlan_17@reddit
Nah let's break a few friendships it'll be fun
Africa-Unite@reddit
Well said. No need insert malintent that ignorance could easily explain away.
keefeitup@reddit
Ahh yes, Hanlon's Razer Pro RGB
Huugboy@reddit
At some point stupidity and malice cannot be differentiated.
boisterile@reddit
I think that saying is meant more for like, people who drive drunk and kill a family, but I guess you could also apply it to people who say a CPU is bad
Vyn144@reddit
Maybe, but not when people are talking about computer components.
HarrisonGreen@reddit
Not everyone builds a PC to play video games. For literally anything else, X3D CPUs suck hard and have terrible price-to-performance. The i7 13700KF, a cheaper and older CPU, beats the R7 9800X3D in multi-core and single-core performance.
Not to mention the news of X3D CPUs mysteriously dying for no reason on multiple high-end boards, casting doubts about their reliability. You really don't want an unreliable and unpredictable machine for work.
kekbooi@reddit
Or OP has a 5070 or something and overspent on the cpu instead of buying a good gpu
Superlolz@reddit
I thought we’ve established for over a decade now that there are no bad gpus just bad value ones.
If the price is right then it’s all good.
kekbooi@reddit
Obviously, just like cpu.
If your budget is 1000€ for both cpu and gpu, spending 450€ on a 9800x3d and 550€ on a 5070 is stupid. A 7700 for 200€ with a 5070ti for 800€ would be the much better coice for gaming.
ViniRustAlves@reddit
In the long term, the 3D V-cache will be worth the extra for a future GPU upgrade.
Man-In-His-30s@reddit
That entirely depends on what type of games you play.
Yes if you only play AAA games like cyberpunk sure, but go play a simulation heavy game on a 7700 vs an x3d and see how quickly you change your tune.
pay attention to stellaris
See what happens when you compare a 7700 vs a 9800x3d
kekbooi@reddit
I know, i play eu4 myself. But that's a rather specific case, for most games the gpu is doing the hard work and pairing the 9800x3d with a 5070 or 9070 is a bad idea
GuyNamedStevo@reddit
Depends
kamalamading@reddit
Your friend is wrong.
X3D doesn’t benefit every game, but it does benefit many, not just shooters.
Makisani@reddit
Your friend is uninformed, while it's true that maybe for your usage the 9700x is nice, the is still 9800x3d is currently the best CPU for gaming by far
RimuruXC@reddit
Dude idk what things your friend is smoking but tell him to stop , the 3d v cache is like extra memory no matter what you are doing it will give u a boost , it goes for all games including AAA , the only time u need Ryzen 7 9700x is when u are doing both gaming and streaming or other multiple apps/software together since the gaming performance difference is around 10% less but multi tasking is a little better , BUT YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY WITH WHAT U HAVE , I really think ur friend is just jealous dude cuz who doesn't want the gaming king cpu?
thundercorp@reddit
Like most things, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
LiveYoLife288@reddit
Non-X3D: Vroom
X3D: Vroom vroom vroooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOMMM-BOOOOOOOOMM
IMKV07@reddit
3d cache benefits = higher max fps & higher 1% lows. If you don't particular care for either, just buy whatever according to your budget.
FantasticBike1203@reddit
X3D is massive for any CPU heavy games, shooters do tend to be pretty CPU heavy but that doesn't mean other games won't benefit from it, most older games use a ton of CPU power too.
Your friend isn't just wrong, he's severely uninformed.
Isthmus11@reddit
One caveat here - the resolution they are playing at and the GPU they are using is not mentioned here at all. I agree that X3D is always the "best" gaming option but if you are playing at 1440p or 4k native without a 4090/5080/5090 to pair with it the performance gains from an X3D CPU essentially vanish. If you play at 1080p or upscale, you will likely see benefits in basically any game. At higher resolutions it might still feel a bit more stable and responsive idk but every chart I have found shows that the GPU becomes the hard limiter in 95% of games at that point and the average FPS really doesn't budge between most high end modern CPUs they all tend to sit easily within 5% of each other
There might be other more recent testing, but this was the case from some research I did about a year ago. I honestly haven't paid much attention for the last 6 months since RAM prices made self builds basically impossible
AnotherFuckingEmu@reddit
Performance gains certainly do not "vanish" at above 1080p. My 9070xt was bottleneck pretty hard in 1440p ultra cyberpunk with a ryzen 7600 til I upgraded to a 9800x3d unless i absolutely cranked PT to the absolute max.
Isthmus11@reddit
It's totally possible man. I can't get good data on every specific setup for every game with each variation of all of the different resolution, framegen, Ray tracing settings, etc. there are just too many variables at this point. Most reviewers don't even post many real in depth charts for resolutions above 1080p for CPU reviews because they just want to show "the uplift" which I get does show up best in 1080p but it ignores that for these $500 CPUs nobody is using them this way in the real world, it's pretty aggravating to me.
I will say a 9070xt is really not that far off from the GPUs I mentioned above and CP2077 is a relatively CPU intensive game. Those results are still somewhat in keeping with my hypothesis, which is again not trying to state that X3D CPUs aren't worth the money, it's just that we need more info on what their actual set up and games they want to play are to be able to tell them if it's worth it for their actual use cases. I have a 7700x with a 6950XT and I have been perfectly happy at 1440p with every game I have tried playing. I am sure I could upgrade and get some better fps but as long as I am maxing out my 144hz monitor, what do I care really?
FantasticBike1203@reddit
There will still be small differences in how smooth a x3d performs over a non-x3d, while the overall performance will be similar with a weaker GPU the lower points (0.1% and 1% lows) will be higher and more consistent.
Tgrove88@reddit
MMOs benefit massively from x3d
Vesli23@reddit
I saw a huge increase in 1% lows and fps in general when I swapped to a 9800x3d in world of Warcraft. Night and day difference for me
Zagorim@reddit
The difference in performance is quite massive in wow, ffxiv and also guild wars 2
Buffbeard@reddit
You’re the first person Ive seen claiming that shooters are cpu heavy, as opposed to say strategy games like total warhammer or cities skylines.
HighPieJr@reddit
esports-shooters like CS, Valorant and R6S are just way more popular than strategy games. That is why they are always brought up as CPU bound games. They are heavily optimized for the gpu, so most gains on modern hardware is due to CPU.
Phyzm1@reddit
Its not because they are inherently more cpu intensive, Its because in fps people strive for maximum fps and often are played at 1080p to achieve this which will always be cpu bound.
Lt_Muffintoes@reddit
Not just high fps, but also fps stability
raydialseeker@reddit
A 9700x gets well over 400 fps in val and cs.
The real difference shows up in baldurs gate 3. A 9800x3d gets around 230fps while a 9700x can do 150ish.
Makaroni23@reddit
To add to the 1080p in the cs scene 4:3 stretched is the most popular among pros and thru that players.
no6969el@reddit
Yeah you have the completely right idea on this concept.
makoblade@reddit
That's more a byproduct of the so-called competitive players in those games wanting the most consistent frames, which results in nixing graphics to the point that the CPU is pushed to 100%.
The game itself in it's designed state isn't particularly CPU bound.
Ed19627@reddit
Ahhh no..
HighPieJr@reddit
wdym "no"? Have I misunderstood somethin?
Ed19627@reddit
Most of those games people play at low graphics to get the most fops out of their game.. Meaning The games are simple and easy on graphics and on Processor.. The games that were mentioned by me below and the guy above those game are strictly processor intensive.. To the point that they benched x3d I think it was 7800 against 1 million SPM in Factorio is when everyone started thinking.. "Wait, this just might be a legit chip.."
https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1gowjn9/9950x3d_factorio_benchmark/
Here is a recent view of the 9850 chip.. There is a reason they are using Factorio for this..
HighPieJr@reddit
I understand there are obviously more cpu intensive games and tasks than esports-shooters. But when aiming to hit a broad demographic of gamers, esports-shooters are relevant to the most people to highlight these gains.
Ed19627@reddit
That still is not true.. There is a benchmark above of the 9950x3d.. It shows no FPS games..
HighPieJr@reddit
Well obviously different reviewers use different benchmarks. I think they should all aim to inlucde a title of as many genres as possible. Including both strategy games and esports titles.
szczszqweqwe@reddit
TBF Cities 2 is more GPU heavy, at least right now, we should see if that changes with nex performance update.
AverageRedditorGPT@reddit
I wonder if cities skylines is one of the few games that might actually not benefit from an X3D. My understanding is that it's workload is closer to scientific computing than game computing. But I'm not an expert.
Itsmemurrayo@reddit
Considering how popular extraction shooters have become it makes sense. Tarkov for example is heavily CPU bound. Arc Raiders, Hunt Showdown, Marathon, & Arena Breakout Infinite aren’t quite as CPU bound as Tarkov, but most of them still benefit from X3D CPU’s even at 4k.
BilboShaggins429@reddit
Also games with a lot of enemies in general like HellDivers2 or Space Marines 2
Ed19627@reddit
Ya man.. X4, Factorio, RimWorld ain't got nothing on Call of Duty man..
Agreeable-Fly-1980@reddit
A large factory definitely does
Specialist_Olive_863@reddit
In the case of competitive shooters where people use high fps/refresh rates they can be considered CPU heavy. CS has been used quite popularly to compare CPUs in benchmarks.
A game could be bottlenecked by a GPU at 60fps but also be bottlenecked by a CPU at 100fps trying to push to 240fps.
Buffbeard@reddit
Aha, so the difference is a different expectation of performance. Some shooter fans expect a shooter to run on a FPS the human eye cant see (except for a few ubermenschen which seem to all play shooters) and use that as a benchmark to claim shooters are cpu heavy?
If I use the same bar for Cities Skylines and want it to run at 240 fps, which will be more heavy? Battlefield 6 or Cities skylines? My guess would still be on Cities Skylines.
We cant compare different genres if you except one to run on 60 fps and the other on 240fps. Yes other factors play a role (screen refresh and resolution), but we still need some type bar to compare them on. And expecting a certain genre to perform 4 times the FPS and calling that a fair comparison seems to be a bit of a stretch.
vaurapung@reddit
I wouldnt call it a stretch. There is really only one expecting being used to measure game performance and that is smoothness. Different games and settings require different hardware strategies to reach a smooth output.
theknyte@reddit
Laughs in Sim Racing. The only game to ever specifically give me a "Warning! CPU Usage >99%" was Assetto Corsa.
Which of course made me immediately upgrade my CPU.
OolonCaluphid@reddit
CPU limited rather than heavy might be a better way to look at it.
SimonShepherd@reddit
There is a reason there are monitors specially made for competitive shooters with 1080p resolution and very high refresh rate, which would require a lot of work from the CPU.
FantasticBike1203@reddit
Massive battleground FPS type games and competitive shooters all use a ton of CPU power, not to say other games don't it's just the most relative example since I'm a big shooter player myself.
118shadow118@reddit
SImracing games also bennefit massively from extra cache
chubbyassasin123@reddit
X3D is the difference between 15 FPS and 80 FPS in kerbal space program with huge rockets
Man-In-His-30s@reddit
People will never know the struggle of launching a 200 part rocket on a toaster
Mother_Summer_64@reddit
Specially heavily modded games like Skyrim
orion427@reddit
x3D is great for flight simulators too. Flight simulators usually have many small subroutines running that are constantly being updated and when these run on the super fast cpu cache you get about a 25% uptake in performance on average and much snappier response times.
QuickGoat20@reddit
Your friend doesn't know jack. You know benchmarks are free to look up
Mother_Summer_64@reddit
Yup I went from a Ryzen 7 3700x to a Ryzen 7 7800x3d. Its not even a fair fight. My 1% lows are waaaay higher in all of my games now
z31@reddit
My CPU path was 2500k to a 4790k to a 3600X then a 5600X and currently a 5800X3D. The uplift from the 5600X to the 5800X3D was more noticeable than going from the 2500 to the 4790k and the 4790K was a beast for it's time.
Mother_Summer_64@reddit
X3D cpus are just gaming beasts 😅😅
The_Dung_Beetle@reddit
My 7800X3D even cured my cancer!
Mother_Summer_64@reddit
Wait... your cancer???
TheReconditioner@reddit
Same here, kinda. When Battlefield 6 released I did my platform upgrade and went from 40fps (i7-10700k, 32gb DDR4) to over 120fps (7800x3d, 32gb DDR5).
Going from a 1660 Super to a 7700XT was one thing, but the platform upgrade brought it to the next level.
Gringo42@reddit
Do you mean waaaaay lower?
Mother_Summer_64@reddit
No for 1% low you want it at high as you can. IE: 100 fps 1% low with 150fps on average for example. We're not talking about temperature here
Gringo42@reddit
Oh right I think understand now, so lower 1% lows would mean bigger dips? And a higher 1% low means much smaller dips from the average?
Mother_Summer_64@reddit
Yup. That's it
zexton@reddit
his friend is the kind of person that think console optimisation is a real thing across all games,
and will make games run better than hardware 50% stronger
7f0b@reddit
The problem with CPU gaming benchmarks is the majority of them use a 5090 @ 1080p. They do it of course to make the difference between CPUs most stark, and that makes sense from a technical/scientific standpoint. It makes sure the framerate is not held up by the GPU at all. But it isn't realistic to what most of us will experience, where the framerate is limited by the GPU most of the time and the CPU makes little difference.
Finding more realistic benchmarks is tough. You have to find reviewers that use GPU and resolution combos that are more common, or more closely match what you have. That is rarely a 5090 and 1080p (outside of some niche, hyper-competitive FPS gamers.) Most people have things like 5060, 5070, etc (steam survey) and are gaming at 1080p or 1440p. These people won't benefit nearly as much from an X3D as the benchmark reviews make it seem, and can lead to false expectations.
Existing-Dust3123@reddit
I'm sorry, but your friend is absolutely right.
$250 difference does NOT warrant the extra 20fps you'll get in shooters or whatever, especially if you play mostly 1080p and don't have a 4080 or faster GPU.
9700X is goated, I have it myself. ~700fps in cs2, what else do you need
slavicslothe@reddit
You own the second best gaming cpu in the world.
catch2030@reddit
If you play at 1080P, X3D is the dominant CPU. As you start to scale up the resolution however it starts to lose its lead. esport titles that are usually played at lower resolution and lower quality settings is where the X3D smokes just about everything. Single player AAA games typically don’t do that much better with X3D but some games will prefer it.
TLDR; higher resolution X3D not as dominant when compared to non X3D.
Dondoke@reddit
Even if 9800x3d won't improve your average framerate by much it will improve 1% lows significantly which is arguably a better deal + it's amazing for emulating things (like ps3 for example)
ballsonurface@reddit
X3D is like the gold standard, any variation will result in good performance for gaming….. how much performance is dependent on how much you wanna spend
Impressive_Cricket89@reddit
I mean ur friend is not wrong, u could have saved quite a bit if u got 9700x instead, and u'd likely still have a great gaming experience, but the 9800x3d is infact the fastest gaming CPU on the market. In 1080p gaming u would see about a 15-20% increase. For 1440p and 4k, honestly the 9700x may be the better choice, at that res the GPU is handling the majority of the load, so it wouldn't really change much. The 9700x is much more power efficient which allows more power to go to the GPU. Were as the 9800x3d needs that power for itself. (Not a problem at all if u have a big enough PSU tho.)
zexton@reddit
x3D will have a uplift in almost all games, dont matter what genre it is
have enough gpu power, and want to push path traced games, your x3d will be the best choice,
vhailorx@reddit
This is overstated I think. Some games are very latency sensitive and love the extra cache. Sim-heavy games like tarkov or rts games are good examples. But some games will have little or no difference.
Mightyena319@reddit
Yeah I have 2 PCs, one with a 5800X3D and a 3070, and one with a 5600 and RX 6800 so GPU power is fairly similar. The performance difference is really very variable - in some games the X3D pulls ahead by a mile, in others the 5600 is actually slightly faster because it can clock a bit higher and the game isn't particularly cache sensitive and doesn't make heavy use of more than 12 threads
Leo9991@reddit
In what games is the 5600 faster?
LongMustaches@reddit
I got curious and looked through a bunch of benchmarks and I couldn't find such a game.
zexton@reddit
5800x3d will ALWAYS be better than with equal systems,
there might be some difference between his amd and nvidia gpu, affecting his test,
testing two completely different system will never be variable for any result, its just a "my rig runs like that"
vhailorx@reddit
I don't think this is true. In the very small set of software that is single-thread-limited AND not cache sensitive, the 5600x is actually clocked a lot bit higher than the 5800x3d and will perform slightly faster. That's a very small use case, but it does exist.
zexton@reddit
you welcome to show me a proper test done where the 5600 is better in a game,
vhailorx@reddit
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d/15.html
CS-Go at 720p.
zexton@reddit
the difference is 0.83% at 720p,
besides people are playing cs2, that is upgraded on its engine,
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1er12rq/latest_cpu_benchmarks_1080p_medium_quality_rtx/#lightbox
vhailorx@reddit
Yeah, and I said in a very small set of, mostly old, software, the 5600x will actually outperform a 5800x3d by a tiny margin.
That's true! Or at least it was 4 years ago when TPU did these tests.
Tech0verlord@reddit
Dude, I went from a 5800x to 9800x3d, and besides the generational uplift, I gained about 10-20 fps on average, my lows were higher, but my frame rate was more stable and less stuttery.
vhailorx@reddit
Hard to isolate just the 3d cache with that swap because you are also switching to a whole new socket platform with new ram. Better to look at 5X00x --> 5800x3d, or 9X00x --> 9800x3d comparisons.
CranberryLittle1417@reddit (OP)
Thanks for replying. I got it.
Serious-Map-1230@reddit
Your friend is not "right" but he certainly has a good point.
In triple A titles, especially at 1440p or 4k, you are often limited by your GPU. In those cases the extra CPU power does very little. It will stil get you better 1% lows, and less fps drops in very busy areas probably. So it's still "better" just not enough to make it worth the price difference to most ppl.
That said, at this moment, there is "only" a 100$ difference between 9800x3d and 9700x. And that actually makes the 9700x poor value. 9600x would really be a good cost saving.
In high fps shooters / esports the difference between x3d and non x3d on the other hand is massive. So there it's a no-brainer.
repocin@reddit
But the price difference to upgrade a CPU is largely negligible in the grand scheme of things when the entire CPU fits within the price difference of one GPU tier to the next these days.
Serious-Map-1230@reddit
That's a personal judgement for everybody to make for themselves. 9600x vs 9800x3d is more than 200$ There is a lot of things I can spend 200$ on that I would rather do than a CPU I dont really need.
There is always a better item for "only" x more or "only" y more. And in the end your build ends up being 500-1000$ more than it really needed to be.
But like I said, that's very personal, I'm an optimizer but for people who have a bigger budget then yeah few hundred bucks on a 3K build is probably fine to them.
LongMustaches@reddit
There's also 7500x3d (€30 more than 7600x), 7600x3d, and 7800x3d. All of them perform better than 9600x on average.
jhaluska@reddit
The friend could be right and we are just getting a game of telephone.
Alewort@reddit
Also, just because you can't gain max fps from a stronger CPU doesn't mean you can't gain minimum fps from a stronger CPU, and that can at times be even better.
Fortuna_YES@reddit
Not to forget, that the x3d CPUs are superior in strategy games like Anno, Total War series, paradox games etc.
Roda_Leon@reddit
If you are in 2k or 4k in almost all games that are not competitive shooters you will first reach GPU bottleneck rather than CPU bottleneck. In those games 7500f will have only 10-20fps less that 9850x3d. But x3d CPU let's you play CPU intensive games like sities skylines, rust and tarkov without freezes and low framerates
mixedd@reddit
X3D will provide better 1% lows on those games, which will feel more impactful than 10-20fps difference on average frames
FantasticBike1203@reddit
A better experience is just as important as better performance.
I'll always advocate for fighting against 1% lows and getting a better monitor over just aiming for the highest performance on a 1080p monitor.
mixedd@reddit
I don't even remember how 1080p screen looks like anymore 😅
LongMustaches@reddit
I do. Used to play tarkov on one. Had to choose between shooting one at pixel vs another. Literally.
Idk how the fps crowd handles 1080p, but imo higher PPI beats infinite fps for me.
LuciferNeko@reddit
What about a 7600x3d vs 7700x those has the same price in my place so crazy
7f0b@reddit
The 7700X will perform better at most productivity and workstation tasks, as well as general computer usage. The 7600X3D may perform better in games, but that is highly dependent on the GPU and resolution.
Plightz@reddit
If you don't need the extra cores, the 7600x3d is better for gaming.
f1rstx@reddit
it won't if you're gpu limitted on midrange GPU
mixedd@reddit
As somebody who upgraded from 2600 to 5800X3D while being on 1070 back in a day, I tend to disagree.
f1rstx@reddit
because 2600 is simply awful cpu. There won't be any difference if you had 5700X and upgraded to 5800X3D
mixedd@reddit
Of course it was shit of CPU, and a reason for upgrade.
And you know that exactly because you tried it? As I know person who did exact upgrade you described.
f1rstx@reddit
yes, i know. Better 1% and 0.1% lows on midrange GPU in GPU bound scenario is nothing more than reddit myth. There is no data that backs it
mixedd@reddit
So you know nothing because there's no data that backs it - got it 😆
f1rstx@reddit
there is litteraly screenshot with 1% lows in GPU bound scenario, but i guess being delusional is more important
mixedd@reddit
And there's literary screenshots and videos where 5700X3D have better 1% lows than 5800X, so?
f1rstx@reddit
show it
mixedd@reddit
Find it, you're looking for that info not me, go and find it. Why do fuck I need to chew something for you?
f1rstx@reddit
I don't need to find anything because said video doesnt exist.
mixedd@reddit
Sure, keep on saying it to yourself
f1rstx@reddit
like i said, it's said that absolutely clueless people, without any understanding giving advices on this subreddit
mixedd@reddit
I completely agree with that statement 😅
KryL21@reddit
I’m in 2k and almost all games I play hit 100% cpu first. Granted I have a 9070 xt.
The finals, marathon, darktide, league of legends, star citizen, all sit at near 100% cpu. And I’m not talking I’m already pushing 200 frames and then I hit 100 cpu, no, in most of those I’m lucky if I get an unstable 80.
You could argue that these games have dogshit optimization, and you’d be right, but the only user side solution to this dogshit optimization is a 3d chip. Maybe if you only play older/single player titles you’d hit 100% gpu first, but nothing recent.
Man-In-His-30s@reddit
Do you forget simulation games exist or what?
Competitive shooters aren’t even close to the most cpu heavy games lol
atonyatlaw@reddit
You might be surprised how many non-shooter games are impacted. ARPGs, simulators, Star Citizen (yes yes, scam and all that), all tend to see a significant boost from the x3d chips.
That said, the big benefit to non-shooters isn't additional FPS, it's smoothing out what FPS you get. The 1% lows are massively improved across the board compared to non-x3d chips.
indiankshitij@reddit
I think this is an extremely relevant comment OP. Most people are assuming that you are playing on low resolution and high FPS. It is completely possible that you are playing on 4k resolution and your GPU is the bottleneck, not your cpu and in that case your friend might be absolutely right!
LongMustaches@reddit
Your friend is uneducated. 9700x is terrible value. In 95+% of games it does about the same as 9600x, while costing 50% more.
9800x3d isn't a miracle CPU, but it performs better than any other CPU bar 9850x3d and 9950x3d2 at 2080p and 1440p. Yes, it does best in shooters but you can look up benchmarks for any game and draw your own conclusions.
VoidNinja62@reddit
Honestly I don't bother with X3D
I don't think it will make a meaningful difference for me.
I use a Ryzen 5800XT in eco mode, 65w cap.
The best thing about X3D is the efficiency but the upfront cost is too high. Like I see why they are popular but they are totally charging a premium to "have the best" and I've learned "having the best" is usually a ripoff.
Like an RTX 5080 vs RTX 5090 kinda thing. Could you even tell the difference without seeing the specs/HW monitor, etc.
cdojs98@reddit
Post is a day old but I have not seen any comments mention this to OP; do you know how CPUs are made?
It's stupid complicated and expensive, so all manufacturers produce in what's called "bins". The theory is, since it's so difficult to make a perfect CPU, they can theoretically just "turn off" mis-made components and sell the CPU as a cheaper variant with less features if it gets messed up.
Intel does this with "K" and "Plus" skus, with "xxxxK Plus" being their best work, "xxxxK" skus next, KF, and finally binned down by Core Count.
AMD does this with "X3D", "XT", "X", and no-mark Variants. X3D silicon undergo a specific on-die memory layering process that has a high manufacturing failure rate, but when it succeeds, is simply untouched in terms of frametiming and scheduling.
9800X3D will blow the socks off of a 9700X in literally every metric, that's a very silly recommendation. Your friend may be confused, as the 9700X is a very solid AMD Productivity chip for a great price, however, if Productivity and workflow is the goal, then that's when I'd consider switching to Intel's upper end of chips. Intel does have a better set of work hardware whereas AMD has better gaming hardware (at the consumer level), and generally AMD has been the more power efficient choice between the two as well up until quite recently.
xYeahboiix@reddit
the X3D chip is objectively better for gaming however obviously if you are playing a game that's sufficiently GPU limited there will be no difference between a 9700x and a 9800X3D water is also wet the sky is blue and this is true of any an every cpu
DaBluedude@reddit
Ur friend jelly AF.
webjunk1e@reddit
The only difference between X3D just has more L3 cache than non-X3D chips. The 3D vertical stacking is just how AMD manages to fit it on the package. It's nothing special otherwise.
Cache is used to accelerate CPU operations because cache is orders of magnitude faster than even system RAM, but it's also far more limited. Even the 9800X3D which has more than most any other consumer CPU on the market has only 96MB, whereas you might have 16GB or more of RAM. That means not everything is going to be in cache ever, so you're relying on cache hits, where the data the CPU needs just happens to have been used before (to become cached) and still exists in cache. Having more cache simply increases the chances of getting a hit.
Games are one particular workload that tends to reuse the same data across multiple CPU operations, so it makes it a good candidate to be accelerated by cache, and having more cache means you generally get more benefit. There's two important takeaways here: 1) games only benefit in as much as they are reusing data that is cached and 2) having less cache doesn't necessarily mean worse performance.
That last one is where people go off the rails. Benchmarks that show X3D chips demolishing everything else are intentionally creating CPU bottlenecked scenarios to tease out the differences between the CPUs. That's fine and what should be done in a proper CPU review, but it doesn't necessarily represent real world performance. If you don't have a CPU bottleneck, then there may not actually even be a difference, because that extra bit of performance the CPU can squeeze out from having more operations directly using cache doesn't come into play. Non-X3D chips also have cache, and the amount of cache they have may also already be enough. In short, X3D doesn't guarantee better performance. It just gives you the potential for better performance.
Razgriz01@reddit
1% lows will likely improve even if you're not generally cpu bound.
Ryan32501@reddit
Correct. If you dont have a high end GPU, the X3D isn't really worth it
aliasdred@reddit
Yes
if yuh use di computer fi anyting extra den yes yuh coulda buy a betta cpu but di margins dem slim an nuff people use more dan 8cores/16threads
Tycho2694@reddit
Your friend i wrong imo, x3d for gaming is great. Some games will make more use of it then others and maybe some games will run better on another cpu by a slim margin but overall X3D is no brainer for me...
heydanalee@reddit
There's a significant difference depending on your use case. The difference between them for gaming will depend heavily on the game. For other content, X3D usually falls behind.
But, for most people and most cases, the differences will be insignificant. Its a price versus performance in the context of individual usage argument. Only thing that matters here is if YOU are happy with your purchase. People that argue against you about it typically are not happy with theirs.
imperidal@reddit
I got an X3D for WoW. This thing is a beast. Never dropped 110fps in raids lol
Difficult_Section_46@reddit
Ofc x3d
thiccdaddyswitch@reddit
So many YouTube benchmarks about this
bombastic6339locks@reddit
they're just better. I'm pretty sure even top of the line intels are around the same
Ryan32501@reddit
Honestly no reason to get intel anymore. Unless you REALLY need single core performance. AMD has better all around CPU's in every single price range, while also consuming less power
DavidKollar64@reddit
Lol what, ultra 5 250k absolutely demolished AMD offers right now, its AMD that don't make sense those days.
bombastic6339locks@reddit
I watched the kliksphilip video about them recently but dont know much. They seem cool
Qwsdxcbjking@reddit
Not in regard to gaming, which is what this whole post is about. The ultra 7 265k is equivalent in gaming performance to a 9700x, while drawing more power. The 9800x3d spanks both by about 20% on average.
DavidKollar64@reddit
Nope, price/performance even in gaming ultra 5 250kf is miles better. Drawing more power also not true really, in gaming its like 10w more or something.
Qwsdxcbjking@reddit
I was talking purely about performance, not the specific ratio of price:performance. Low tier stuff generally dominates in that regard, due to the diminishing returns for every step up you take, paying like 30-50% more each jump for like 10-30% more performance. Even the x060 Nvidia cards tend to beat out the higher tier equivalents, but if you want the best performance then you don't go for that.
Ryan32501@reddit
For gaming? Absolutely not. For intense single core performance intel still wins, but you will be paying a hefty premium, and you want to completely avoid 13/14 series top end chips. They literally cook themselves. It took a 14900k overclocked drawing almost 400 watts to compete with a 7800x3d that was undervolted pulling 100 watts. That's Absolutely insane to think about
bombastic6339locks@reddit
I wouldn't go that far, there are some niche cases where you'll be able to undervolt and overclock some intel processor and get better results looking at the pricetag but for 99% of the consumers amd seems to be the goto. The new intel series looks pretty cool though
IronAttom@reddit
X3D means it has a larger L3 cache on half of its cores which means it doesn't need to fetch memory from ram as often, anything running directly off the cache is faster so a bigger cache is good its just hard to make a cache large and fast that's why they are not bigger but the x3d solves this a little by how they arrange them, you sacrifice a little latency and speed (I think) for more cache size then you normally would get with that same sacrifice
MultiMarcus@reddit
The X3D chips are a huge uplift. There is some argument for games generally being GPU bound nowadays but the big distinguish feature with these X3D processors is that they have huge amounts of cache. That will noticeably improve your 1% and 0.1% lows.
Now, if you want to save some money a non-X3D chip can still be a great CPU. You can also get great performance in many games. It’s not like the consoles don’t manage well enough on their Ryzen 5 3600 level chip but I think if you have the money for it the 9800x3d will be a great chip for years to come. The 9700x I’ll probably be a good chip, but I think it will age worse. Especially as we are getting into the cache wars we’re both Intel and AMD seems set on increasing cache amounts for their high end gaming chips.
Jirekianu@reddit
Your friend is wrong, 100%. X3D CPUs are always an uplift compared to their non-X3D equivalents. Also, the 9800X3D is legitimately the best gaming cpu on the market in pretty much all games.
Just look at gamersnexus benchmarks for the 9800X3D. They show it at 1080p, 1440p, 4K, and with various GPUs. You'll see that in the vast majority of games listed. It's a very significant improvement over other CPUs, and is only even in rare cases.
voidpo1nter@reddit
It's weird to describe single digit performance gains at 1440p and above as "significant".
Jirekianu@reddit
The vast majority of PC gamers are still on 1080p displays. So those numbers do matter. Even so, you're still seeing statistically significant uplift in 1440p for average framerates. With significantly improved 1% lows. Any game that has enemy AI processing like turn order games such as Stellaris, CIV, etc? Those see serious improvement from the X3D processor.
If you're talking about 4K then yes, at 4K you're so GPU bound that just having a CPU above a certain threshold of performance will handle the job well. Because you need a space heater of a GPU to be able to push 60+fps consistently at 4K with the settings turned to high or better.
Between the 1% lows, and other latency improvements, coupled with the performance uplift? That does warrant the higher cost, but probably not to the extreme everythiing in the PC parts space is being squeezed now.
voidpo1nter@reddit
I'm going to make a crazy statement:
It doesn't matter if the majority of PC gamers use 1080p because the majority of PC gamers do not have high end systems. I agree with that statement, and if you used something like the steam hardware survey to get the data, please look at the most popular CPU, GPU, and amount of RAM.
Hardly anyone seeking a 9800X3D & high end GPU is going to pair it with a low resolution display. It just doesn't make sense (most of the time!). Ironically enough, it makes even less sense to purchase a 9800X3D if using a nice display. The uplift in performance is a joke, comparatively, for 33-50% more cost. Get a 9700X or hell, a 270K to recycle as a media server in 5+ years thanks to quicksync, and put a little extra towards a GPU or RAM.
Qwsdxcbjking@reddit
The difference between 45 and 52 FPS is only 7, but that's a 15.5% increase, which is very statistically significant.
voidpo1nter@reddit
Is it worth 50% more money? Really?
Qwsdxcbjking@reddit
Depends on the individual. For me personally, the next time I build a gaming pc I'll probably go balls to the wall, so yeah. Might not be for you though, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Organic_Warthog7238@reddit
I’m in 1440p with a 7900xtx went from a 5800x to a 9800x3d my 1% lows are now higher than my max frames from my old cpu so much to the point my gpu started having heat issues because it was actually being used now. Your friends either jealous he can’t afford what you have or stupid
Popular-Tune-6335@reddit
X3D is undoubtedly the S tier chips for CPUs. You're sitting at the top, friend. Enjoy the view.
SuspectAlternative75@reddit
X3D for sure
MTV379@reddit
I love my 9800x3d and would not change it for a non x3d chip by any means.
I have a 4080s and yea youre gpu limited first, but what i love about it is the 1% lows. Its not like i gained fps with this cpu on 3440x1440 resolution i play but the steadiness of frames and not having them jumping around during intense scenes or multiple npc's on the screen is so worth it. I had a 7900x and while it was great, during very intense scenes with explosions id get a stutter or few. The game is helldivers 2. 9800x3d has no such thing. Smooth always.
Baldurs gate would frop fps in a town where it would be very noticeable. That doesnt happen with x3d.
Keep it.
Comrade_Chyrk@reddit
Yes the x3d makes quite a noticeable difference in games, especially in the 1% lows. Your friend doesnt know what hes talking about.
LemusHD@reddit
I had trusted a friend who told me to get a 13700k over a 7800x3D and I regretted listening because intel had micro code issues. But when I got a 7800x3D the difference was night and day. Gameplay was noticeably smoother and game particles were rendering properly that I never noticed before. I will probably never go back to intel for gaming even though they have since fixed their issue I only use the intel cpu in my server now
ZeisHauten@reddit
Your CPU is probably overkill for your needs but its hell of a scrumptious boy. I would pick that CPU over any mainstream intel and non-X3D chips any day. But I opted for a non-X3D because we poor.
7f0b@reddit
The budget of the build is an important factor for 99% of us. It's annoying to see people blindly recommending 9800X3D all the time (not necessary this thread, but in general) before even taking into account the budget, GPU, monitor, etc.
Here are the current, lowest prices from pcpartpicker (US):
The 250K is a surprisingly-good processor for the price. I'd choose that and save the $210 for a better GPU, which would result in better overall system performance (workstation and gaming) most of the time.
ZeisHauten@reddit
This is exactly why I was bouncing my decision between 7600X and 9600X because as far as I know, it's already above my daily requirements and going beyond that is just wasteful. I would gladly use an X3D chip if, and only if, I can buy it at the price of a non-X3D or given for free. The 9850X3D is 980USD in my country BTW, That's the cost of my entire PC.
WitnessFeisty4076@reddit
X3d is better for all gaming
nitrogenlegend@reddit
The premise of what he’s saying is not entirely unfounded. In a lot of cases, you’re going to be GPU limited, even on the 9700x, so the 9800x3d doesn’t really give you any benefit. With that said, the difference the better cpu makes is not limited to shooter games, it will be noticeable on any game that a 9700x would’ve been a limiting factor on, and sometimes the extra cache on the 9800x3d can give benefits even if the 9700x would’ve been bottlenecked by the GPU.
Also, in my opinion, non-x3d Ryzen chips are a pretty bad value right now. The only real benefit you get over going intel is the higher likelihood of motherboard compatibility with future CPU releases. Aside from that, a lot of newer intel chips have better gaming performance including better 1% lows, and drastically better performance in multi threaded productivity. This for around the same price or cheaper, depending on intel model, than the 9700x.
So in my eyes the only real options out right now are Ryzen x3d and Intel, depending on use case and budget. I could maybe see an older Ryzen 5 if you wanted to upgrade from something even older and stay on ddr4 with a tight budget, but that’s pretty niche and I’d probably still take Intel in that case and go 14600k or something similar.
aztecaoro10@reddit
I have a 9800x3d and It works great for gaming but I wish I woulda got an Intel chip since I game and stream at the same time. I think the Intel woulda handled that much better than my current CPU
a_rogue_planet@reddit
This has got to be one of the most idiotic debates in the PC arena.
While it can be said that an X3D chip will get you more frames, are you using the 600Hz display that will actually show them to you? Many times the number of frames being counted is such a moronic number it doesn't even matter.
Jamerz_Gaming@reddit
9800x3D is the best gaming CPU. Anyone who tells you different either is lying or doesn’t know what they are talking about
alextpale@reddit
There's a performance difference for sure, but it's all about budget. The 9800x3d is over 100$ more than the 9700x, it's got way better performance but it depends on if you can spend that money. In this case you did, enjoy the performance and stability of it
Felidori@reddit
For CPU heavy games, X3D can’t be beat. I know from experience World of Warcraft can’t be buttery smooth on an X3D and still choppy on a regular X. (Try 30 man raiding with graphics way up, it can be a sub 30 fps on a 5600X easily).
SituationSmooth9165@reddit
I mean depending on the GPU, you could just get the 9700x and be more than fine. x3d kinda a scam if you're at 1440p
nlflint@reddit
It depends, if you have a high-end GPU like 9070xt or 5070ti or better, and you want 144fps at 1440p, then you turn on upscaling. You remove some of that bottleneck at 1440p, and that's where x3D helps.
ccoulter93@reddit
9800x3d is overkill, but you wouldn’t need to replace it for like 10 years. So there’s that
Avalongtimenosee@reddit
X3D will have slightly worse performance compared to an X equivalent at regular tasks, but it should almost always outperform it in gaming.
If you needed your CPU specs for something workflow related then the X3D would be suboptimal but not awful, it's strengths just like more in gaming.
Wh1tesnake592@reddit
X3D for gaming. No brainier.
keefeitup@reddit
Benchmarks are your real friends, my guy. Particularly when you need answers to questions like this.
Data >> Opinion.
Muzi34Pro@reddit
Unless you only play 2D games, X3D always makes a difference. In all games, not shooters
Bubu976@reddit
Il tuo amico non sa di cosa parla
frardo@reddit
I've been playing PC games for 15 years, and of all the processor upgrades I've made, none were as substantial as switching from a 10th generation Intel to an AMD x3d. For the first time in 15 years I don't suffer from the 1% lows, the x3d simply tamed the stuttering in those infamous UE5 games. As they said, your friend is just envious, don't listen to him.
IndyPFL@reddit
Your friend drank the Userbenchmark kool-aid.
Emergency-Plastic485@reddit
The only real argument I’ve heard for intel lately is that if you are a gamer who streams, the ultra core CPU’s are the best budget around for mid-high end cpu performance WHILE streaming. But if this, specific use case doesn’t apply to you, which clearly not as you own the 9800x3d, there is nothing intel has to offer you. Some people can gain if it fits their needs, but they are sacrificing some gaming ability for a lot of backend power. And gen 13-14 have been consistently having issues across the board. So stick with what you got, it’s a great brain for your pc!
Plane_Platypus_379@reddit
Can confirm 9800x3d improves performance in just about any modern game.
PANIC_EXCEPTION@reddit
X3D is always better. If one of the CCDs doesn't have 3D cache, you may want to install Process Lasso to have games run only on the one that does (coercing Windows to schedule processes correctly).
RandyMuscle@reddit
You can literally look up any of the hundreds of benchmark videos on this on YouTube and see that the 9800X3D is better than the 9700X in basically everything. Your friend is stupid.
Ryan32501@reddit
The higher resolution you play at the difference gets smaller and smaller in GPU bottlenecked scenarios
makoblade@reddit
Your friend is bug dumb. For gaming there isn't really a better CPU, and in all modern cases the X3D option is better than a step up but without the cache.
I guess techncially the 9850X3D is better but it's still an X3D.
OrthodoxSlavWarrior@reddit
Your friend is talking a lot but saying absolutely nothing.
UpstairsConnection57@reddit
X3D helps in some games, but not all. And it is not shooters but simulation type games where it has the most advantage.
flasktuft5@reddit
X3d is the better choice your friend doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about.
TheTwinHorrorCosmic@reddit
X3D are basically the king of gaming nowadays. Basically zero reason to use anything else for a primarily gaming rig.
Also, triple A gaming is MUCH more CPU intensive than GPU. Unless you’re trying to hit 4K your GPU will usually be chilling.
Also, as more games go Unity, CPU is going to be king
Reikix@reddit
That friend is probably misinformed. X3D CPUs have a bigger cache memory, which means they need to call for items less times than lower cache CPUs, reducing latency.
This results in less variation between average FPS and Low 1% (or in natural terms, there are less dips in FPS due to the CPU waiting for stuff and the existing dips are not as bad), resulting in a smoother experience.
The feeling of smoothness while playing does not depend only on max frames per second but rather consistency of them. You can have a game running at 70-75FPS all the time feel smoother than another game running at 85-105FPS due to the big variations between max and min FPS, and the more it fluctuates the worse it feels.
I play Ark: Survival Ascended often, and the terrain, objects and creatures on screen fluctuate a lot and very quickly, so the frame rate is crazy there. For me this game runs around 100-120FPS all the time with some 90FPS dips. I ended up limiting the frame rate in the game to 100FPS so that it would remain at 100 most of the time and feel smoother (and at the same time I am saving on some GPU power).
MK2396E@reddit
X3D is so worth it, if you want better frame rate and stability. Plus, you can use whatever DDR5 RAM kit without worrying about RAM timings. Also, it does shaders compilation much quicker than non-X3D. 9000 series X3D can do anything with video and photo production without any issues whatsoever, unlike the 7000 X3D series
Nexxus88@reddit
Your friend is clueless, the x3d pretty much has a uplift across everything but some things it gets a deep performance uplift, management games like cities skylines or simulators like flight sim are 2 such examples, if you intend to use RT as well anything with RT is gonna see better numbers since RT isnt just more demanding on the gpu but the cpu as well.
finisimo13@reddit
Intel boy saying you should get 9700x instead of 9800x3d is sad.
Your "friend" is telling u lies and wants to be you
Retro-gecko45@reddit
Depends on your resolution. If 4k then no
It_just_works_bro@reddit
He's dead wrong lol
piggymoo66@reddit
It really depends on a lot of things. Even in gaming, some games may not see any benefit at all from having X3D. Generally speaking, they shine most at lower resolutions in CPU-bound situations. Think like 1080p, sim games, strategy games, high fps shooters, etc. Higher resolutions tend to rely more on the GPU, so it's easier for the CPU to keep up and it doesn't matter as much.
In uses other than gaming, a 9700X will probably work a little better since they can clock higher for longer. There is no real "one CPU to rule them all" so you really have to make sure you actually think about what you're using your PC for to pick out a CPU.
____Player____@reddit
dependa on game and resolution, at 4k ultra cpu really doesnt matter much but at 1080p in the same game it might get you like 50% more performance
elonelon@reddit
for gaming only, x3d.
Pmaldo87@reddit
9800x3d and 9850x3d are the best processors on the market for someone who is mostly gaming. Your friend is misinformed
dheera@reddit
I use the non-X3D because I do a lot of parallelized data crunching and want all the cores to be the same
sfmcinm0@reddit
If you can afford an X3D cpu get it. If you can't, don't. Simple as that.
I have been running a 9800 X3D since last summer, after more than 20 years of Intel CPUs, with absolutely no problems.
Every_Relationship11@reddit
X3D processors stack the L3 cache chips vertically on the processor so they have space for a lot more cache than non X3D processors. Specifically the 9700x has 32MB of L3 cache and the 9800X3D has 96 MB of L3 cache.
The more cache a processor has, the more work it can complete internally before it has to begin leveraging other system components for resources. Modern FPS games like CS2 have large blocks of data that need to be processed in a very small timeframes to maintain the “flow” of the game, so on paper an X3D processor will perform better than a regular X processor.
In reality, 32MB of L3 cache on the 9600/9700X chips is already a huge quantity compared to previous generations of chips and can handle almost anything you throw at them. Considering a 9600x is 1/3rd the price of a 9850X3D, the 9600x is a much better ratio of performance to cost.
5070TI with a 9600x can play CS2 on high/very high at 1440p and hit my 240FPS requirements for my 240hz refresh rate for context.
ImmortalHanLi@reddit
"who was Intel" says it all
f1rstx@reddit
X3D is good bit better, however 9700X is good enough for any mainstream AAA/eSport game. Importance of having X3D CPU is insanely overrated on the internet even thought it is best gaming cpu outthere.
WeaponisedTism@reddit
Your friend was evidently dropped on his head as a child, 3D Cache on the CPU die is much better than just standard cache. 3D NAND memory is much faster than non 3D configurations and the 3D topography of these types of NAND memory are what have driven the massive leaps in SSD and RAM speed in the last decade.
in short your friend dont know shit. whether through malice or ignorance is for you to determine
Brazuka_txt@reddit
Lmao , I got like 40 fps by just swapping from an i7 9700k to a 7800x3d
atonyatlaw@reddit
Your friend is a straight up fool.
ILIKEBACON12456@reddit
Having an X3D is infinitely more important than core count or time of release (within certain boundaries of course). I was thinking about getting a Ryzen 7 instead of a Ryzen 5 but since none of them were X3D (those are very rare here) I opted for the slightly cheaper Ryzen 5 since games don't benefit from the extra core count. Having the 3d cache is basically the single best cpu feature you can have.
changen@reddit
It depends entirely on your game and your current monitor refresh rate. Do you need 800 fps on cs2 if your monitor is only 120 or 240hz and a 9800x can push that framerate anyways? Nope. it's a waste of money.
So yes, in that sense, it's a waste of power and money to get a better cpu, and run at a framerate that makes no difference to your game play.
Modern shooters have reflex enabled anyways, so it's not like your response time is better with uncapped framerates
Crowley120@reddit
If it’s a cpu intensive game the x3d CPU’s make a huge difference for example in escape from tarkov I have a 5800x3d and my buddy has a 9800x3d our frame difference is huge even though our graphics card are nearly identical in performance. If I didn’t have an x3d chup the difference would be even bigger. In most games you’re fine but in those select few that are cpu heavy or in emulation it’s huge
Ripe-Avocado-12@reddit
It's about balance. The 9800x3d (and now the 9850x3d) are objectively the best gaming cpu's on the market (tpu review). But just because something is the best on average, doesn't mean others aren't worth considering. The 9700x in this average chart shows it at 88.8% of the 9800x3d with a 5090. That gap is only going to decrease with smaller GPU's.
Now if you're buying a 5090, you probably have the budget for the best cpu to pair with it. But if you're not buying a 5090, you probably have a budget you're sticking to. Now that we're on a tighter budget constraint, spending a lot on the cpu will start to have diminishing returns when we look at re-investing that money into a better gpu.
For example lets say you can afford a 9800x3d but that means your cpu is only a 5060 ti. If you had allocated your budget differently and got a 9700x/9600x you might have opened up enough budget to get a 5070 or 9070. The jump to those GPU's would be way more significant, than the small loss you're taking by not going x3d.
XoRoX44@reddit
Counterstrike runs on evry, potato what is he talking
TopoEntrophy@reddit
X3D is the best for gaming, X may be cheaper for the same amount of Cores for workstation
SchrodingerSemicolon@reddit
There's no better CPU for gaming. Well, except by the 9850x3D that was just released, but it's more or less a 9800x3D OC. Until Zen 6 they're both top CPUs for gaming, 5% within each other and 15% ahead of the 2nd best.
He could be right, that depends on your GPU and the quality/resolution you play. For example with a 5070Ti and non-competitive games, at 1440p you start seeing diminishing returns on CPU scaling because you'll be GPU capped, and at 4k for a lot of games a 9800x3D and a 9700X will perform exactly the same.
Anyway, if you already have a 9800x3D all of that is moot, it's a fantastic CPU.
bobdylan401@reddit
I witnessed the difference myself and its worth it for gaming
WizardMoose@reddit
Your friend is stupid and jealous. Just to explain why its good for games. The part that makes it an "x3d" model better, is going to make any game run the same, or better. It will never make a game run worse.
As for what the x3d is and why its faster, I'm going to copy and paste an explanation from u/SirGeorgington - "Basically it's a way of vertically stacking more L3 Cache onto the die. The 7800X3D for example has 96MB of L3 cache, while the 13700k only has 30MB. This means that the 7800X3D needs to store and retrieve data from slow system memory less often, making it significantly faster in some use cases. Gaming is easily the most significant beneficiary of the extra cache."
Other explanations go into a bit more detail that the additional cache allows the CPU to write/read memory faster without having to wait on RAM since CPU's are so fast nowadays, the extra memory on the L3 Cache on x3d chips allows them to negate the issue of waiting on RAM to do its part.
wienercat@reddit
For purely gaming? X3D.
If you plan to do any work/productivity stuff on your PC go non-X3D. X3D cpus lag behind outside of gaming.
Witch_King_@reddit
Another benefit of X3D: more cache on the CPU means that the RAM speed/latency matters quite a bit less for overall performance!
ShredGuru@reddit
Your buddy is jealous.
dorting@reddit
For GPU heavy games of course have little impact or nothing...for everything else you are going to feel it, mostly is for competitive light games, MMO (WOW for example), open world
Falconator100@reddit
If your GPU is fully utilized than the benefit of the X3D CPU barely matters.
zarco92@reddit
Your friend either has no idea what he's talking about or he's actively trying to make you return your CPU to buy a worse one. Doesn't look great in either case.
CabbageCZ@reddit
I think it's just kids flexing on each other with limited info/knowledge and bits and pieces they picked up from hearsay/media.
I remember, I used to be a kid that was into tech. lol
TrollCannon377@reddit
X3D helps basically every game some more than others sure but it's definitely worth it (currently on a 5700x3D
ginsodabitters@reddit
Why are the friends in these situations always such losers.
kingk1teman@reddit
There's one of 2 things happening here:
Either your friend is jealous that you have the best gaming CPU in the market
Or he doesn't know a damn thing about AMD CPUs.
I'm leaning heavily on the second.
LeadIVTriNitride@reddit
X3D is objectively better but X chips aren’t bad. The way I justified my 9800X3D was, if I’m shooting for the moon with a decent CPU, X3D is arguably worth the touch extra for longevity and improving 1% lows
TalkingRaccoon@reddit
He's jealous of your e-peen
Obzenium@reddit
Some of this depends on the resolution you’re playing at but it’s been shown a million times you’ll get something like 5 - 10% performance upgrade and much better 1% lows with the x3d version regardless of what you’re playing. Whether or not that is worth it to you is none of your friend’s business.
And the 9800x3d will be better for future proofing
Your ‘friend’ sounds like a real downer dude why can’t they be happy for you? You have one of the best CPUs for gaming ever made and again it is purely up to you whether it was worth it
Sinister_Crayon@reddit
If you're gaming focused; X3D all day long no question. It's just better in just about every way.
HOWEVER, for a more general-purpose PC build (running applications more than playing games) the 9700X is as good at or in some cases better than an X3D depending on your workload. Crucially the X3D will suffer "cache misses" much more often and will be more impactful, though at the end of the day we're still talking probably single-digit percentage differences even at absolute worst case. This is highly workload dependent; many workload still benefit from the X3D cache but there are some that don't.
Back about a year ago when I did my current build the price difference between the 9700X and X3D was pretty significant, so I sit here typing this on a 9700X that I've been very happy with. However, with the price delta being that much smaller today I might have made a different choice today... it's still more expensive but when doing a full build like I was (RAM, motherboard, CPU, GPU) it's such a small part of the overall picture that it would probably make more sense to go the X3D route.
For my part the 9700X is fine and handles every workload I throw at it. I'll be good for a couple of generations until I am ready to upgrade :)
andy10115@reddit
An x3d is nearly always the better choice for gaming. There is a case to be made if it's a creation and gaming station though.
But the x3d CPUs will give better 1% lows in nearly every game, and in some cases some frame improvements over a comparable non x3d CPU.
Warballs97@reddit
Really made a difference in WoW for me. Your friend is just jealous.
Unlucky_Raccoon_5829@reddit
Whoever says X3D doesn’t work is jealous
Jackriecken@reddit
X3D has slightly slower clock speeds and a lower tjmax but 3X the level 3 cache. I think it boosts the IPC's compared to similar CPU's. I've got a 7700X and while my clock speeds might go higher than a stock X3D the IPC isn't nearly as good.
Dunadain_@reddit
To x3d or not x3d, that is the question.
Amadeus404@reddit
It dépends on your GPU
pineapple6969@reddit
Never ask that friend for PC advice again lol
SeKiyuri@reddit
The reason why there is a difference is because out of the box 9800x3d is maxxed out almost on power, 9700x is 65w, if u overclock them both and adjust ram to cl28 6400mhz and IF to 2133, then difference is 5% in favor of 9800x3d but 9700x has better frametime.
So it is your choice, now idk but when i got 9700x it was x2 less in price than 9800x3d which now isn't the case, the money you save isn't gonna make difference in any components today so yeah.
JonWood007@reddit
X3d cpus generally get a performance boost between 0% and 50% depending on the game and its engine. Id generally expect 20-30% better performance on average.
KHTD2004@reddit
In GPU heavy titles the CPU is secondary for performance but as soon as you utilize your CPU a little the X3D will have a very big impact
Fixitwithducttape42@reddit
Some games notice a big improvement with the x3d cache, others not so much. It also is pretty common for it to drastically help with the 1% lows.
Its a nice to have upgrade but not require. I could get by with a AM5 a620 motherboard and only use 65w TDP CPUs like the 7600 as well, but no one will deny a 7500x3d or 9800x3d will be an upgrade.
kumikanki@reddit
X3d models have 3d cache in the CPU and technically it lends memory from CPU to GPU and helps your GPU to generate more frames.
THEYoungDuh@reddit
9800x3d is currently the best CPU on the market.
The 9850X3D exists but costumes way more power for very minimal gains or losses.
9950x3d is slightly better all around but costs significantly more.
SkilledChestnut@reddit
Your friend is jealous
12amoore@reddit
Your friend is either jealous or has absolutely ZERO clue on how CPU’s work… or both. X3D only good for shooters? Lmfao
VOIDsama@reddit
At best his argument is that y paid more for that CPU in a cost/performance ratio than some other cpus. There are certainly diminishing returns as u climb higher, and u might well have overkill for what you do with it.
Internal_Log2582@reddit
Awwww shit you brought out the fanboy rage bait with this one buddy!!
Funny-Wind4878@reddit
Ok. There are some issues to unpack here.
First, "is a Ryzen X3D CPU better than the same CPU but not X3D"? Yes. always yes.
Second, "is a Ryzen X3D better than a higher tier non X3D CPU"? Here let's compare a Ryzen 5 9600X3D vs a Ryzen 7 9700X, as an example. For gaming, generaly yes, but not in a uniform fashion. While, on gaming, the advantage will always be on the lower tier X3D CPU, the size of the advantage will depend greatly on the game.
third, "Would a 9700X be good for gaming?" For the most part, and as someone than until recently had a 3700X, yes.
fourth, "What about GPU vs CPU bottlenecks?" Shooters tend to be played at settings that maximise FPS, which usually means people tend to use less graphically intensive settings, thus removing the GPU bottleneck, and in these cases, the CPU may actually become the bottleneck, and, at Low-1080p, a X3D CPU will allow you to push higher (sometimes much higher) FPS, compared to a non-X3D...That said, if you display is a 180Hz monitor, if the X3D can give you 420 Hz and the non-X3D can give you 340 Hz, both can feed the monitors maximum frame rate anyway (there other issues, that, even in such cases, may benefit from the higher virtual FPS, but, while real, are much less relevant);
fifth, "Do I have a budget and if I choose the 9800X3D I must sacrifice RAM/GPU/SSD?". In my view, I would either go for the 9700X(if I'd inteded to use the PC for more than gaming) or the 9600X3D (if only for gaming)...Or just to throw chaos, do what I did, find a 7800X3D, instead...
RabidTurtl@reddit
You're friend doesn't know what they are talking about. If you game, its best to get a X3D cpu.
PermissionJaded5510@reddit
X3D only for gaming, and I mean ONLY for gaming. Otherwise just get that 9700X if you want real power. I noticed that something heavy browsing or heavy applications are not doing well on X3D... also it doesn't do well with multiple applications open at once and multi-tasking. I believe it's also terrible for streaming.
I have a 5700X3D. It's fantastic for gaming and watching twitch. That's about it
o0Spoonman0o@reddit
Nothing you've said here makes any sense at all. You're not going to notice the difference between an x3d vs non in stuff like browsing
misteryk@reddit
if you're not going for strictly gaming then get intel 250k plus rather than 9700x, in games even with slightly lower average FPS it gets better 1% lows and it's way cheaper. And if you can find stock of 270k plus then at basically the same price 9700x gets obliterated in everything but it's also the reason why it's currently out of stock
PermissionJaded5510@reddit
I'm challenging myself to keep the 5700X3D until AM6
RumbleTheCassette@reddit
Calling an X3D chip "terrible" for streaming is asinine. It's not necessarily the best chip possible but to call it terrible is ridiculous.
PermissionJaded5510@reddit
I apologize on that part
KlassLikeVlassic@reddit
Huge difference
Tsenister@reddit
Get the x3d if you're into competitive games and can afford the premium. I'm going to upgrade my 7600x to the last x3d chip that will come out on am5.
Ja_sam_kaktus@reddit
People here are saying that you are getting a MASSIVE difference in games. But in reality you are getting around less than 10% more than the base variant in most scenarios. The X3D draws more power and costs more. Imo the pros don't justify the 100$ (it is that more expensive where I live) increase in price. But either way you bought a good CPU that will stay relevant for the next few years indefinitely. Enjoy your games, don't bother with who has what. If it works good it's good.
Southern-Country-503@reddit
friend is jealous RTRD.
bir_iki_uc@reddit
For higher resolutions, especially for 4K, x3d cpus are not worth their price, simple as that. If you play at 1080p, you will see fps difference in almost all of the games, at 1440p you will see difference in some games, but if you play at 4K, nonx3d cpus are better, game performances will rarely be different and that will be minor difference but non-x3d cpus have better cooling and higher frequencies.
dolooxu@reddit
X3D CPUs?Yes.
X3D motherboards with X3D mode(mostly by Gigabyte)? No.
DanZDaPro@reddit
I swear you could've spent 2 minutes comparing numbers by typing "9800x3d vs 9700x" and your resolution to search on youtube.
owsh@reddit
Can somebody explain why you need a x3d or similar priced cpu? I have a 3600x and 6600xt at 1440p and get 120fps in pretty much everything. This hardware is like 4x the price of my cpu. I do 3d rendering in cad programs, play everything from rdr2, cities skylines, bf6 etc. I dont understand.. are you all using 4k monitors or something?
prank_mark@reddit
It depends on what GPU you have, what resolution and settings you play at, and which games you play. 1440p High with a 5060? No difference in almost all games. 1080p low with a 5090? Huge difference in almost all games.
https://www.techspot.com/review/3017-ryzen-9800x3d-vs-7600x-cpu-scaling/
voidpo1nter@reddit
X3D isn't worth the 50% price increase over something like a 9700X for almost any gaming application. There's very little difference in performance unless the user will be running primarily eSports titles @ 1080P or WoW.
Check for yourself at the resolution you're using for games. There are plenty of benchmarks. It's hilarious to me the amount of dorks paying a 50% ignorance tax.
magur76@reddit
Never ask this friend advice regarding anything lol
Dancing-Wind@reddit
if we want to get technical x3d cpus favour computations with large(-ish) data set. we have a few scenarios: a) if the data sets is small enough that all the crucial data fits into "standard" cpu cache then the non x3d cpu with higher operating frequency will win out.
b) if data sets hits the sweet spot where regular cache is too small but fits nicely into bigger x3d there is where you get those huge performance bonuses.
c) Now there are cases where data does not fit into even into x3d cache - still big cache and prefetching algorithms guarantees that x3d will hit much more often and thus perform better. thee are small to medium advantages to x3d
d) finally there are the use case where we just need to process a huge chunk of data. like data compression. you are basically limited by memory speed. here cpus perform the same. or higher clocked non x3ds perform better. these are not really the use cases for games. well maybe loading screens.
that is why there is so much variability in usefulness of x3d cache but in most cases its is noticeably better
MagicMaverick22@reddit
Your friend has no idea what he is babbling about. Strategy games and any games on 1080p resolution will be CPU heavy, not just “shooters”. X3D cpu’s are the best for gaming.
KaOtIcGuy89@reddit
Google is your best friend
Deal_Correct@reddit
Your friend is clueless. You are fine
CardBoord@reddit
X3D is always better for gaming, 9700X is only better in price/performance(at least it was when I bought it)
Stunning_Box8782@reddit
He's saying you could've bought a better CPU, by buying a worse CPU?
X3D doesn't hurt to have in any game.
Money_Cable6925@reddit
X3d has ram built into the cores, its superior for gaming and only for multicore tasks and overlocking does it lack so I think friend of urs has a can of tuna stuck in his brain or a couple rusty screws
No-Actuator-6245@reddit
X3D are the best for gaming and there is nothing wrong with having the best. However, not everyone needs an X3D. Friend of mine is running a 7700X and 4070Ti for 1440p 165Hz and it’s an excellent combination. They play a variety of different game types and the cpu is not lacking in any way.
N7even@reddit
Your friend doesn't know what they're talking about.
TitaniumDogEyes@reddit
Like everything else pc related, it depends. If you’re running a 3060ti it doesn’t really matter, if you have a 5090 you’re going to get 30% more out of it.
IshYume@reddit
Your friend is a dumbass lmao
TyranWolf@reddit
X3D chips are pretty significant compared to the non X3D cpus. Gives you a good boost in performance in CPU bound titles but also gives you higher 1% lows in virtually any game across the board. Not saying that the 9700X is bad. It's still a great CPU but for people who just want to game, they would prefer an X3D cpu if given the chance.
pokeminatour@reddit
Performance in gaming - x3d is the best.
But they are some other matters like price to performance and upgrade strategy.
For example you have Ryzen 5 3600 but this is not enough for you and you want an upgrade. You can choose between Ryzen 7 5700x3d/5800x3d or sell current platform when price is still good and upgrade to AM5 and for example Ryzen 5 7600x . They've got a similar performance in benchmark and before RAM prices go up , similar price.
You can stay midrange ( Ryzen 5 X600 ) and constantly upgrade selling old parts or choose high tier ( x3d) and stay longer. Or if you have infiitnity money you can constantly upgrade to the most powerful current CPU. Similar case is in the GPU market.
Chief_Potat0@reddit
Is your friend more of a budget oriented builder? It may be that he views them as excessively more expensive. But considering that your PC budget is clearly relatively high, a 9800X3D makes sense for you. They do provide a big uplift in performance though, that is certainly true.
definitlyitsbutter@reddit
x3d has a huuge cache compared to X cpus and by that gives a huge performance boost, exspecially in 1%lows.
So even if top FPS dont go up, the better lows make games feel much smoother.
your friend is a muppet.
Electronic_Green541@reddit
Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about.
Creative_atom0406@reddit
X3D CPUs are better in ALL games because they have more cache. The CPU can store a lot of crucial game data on it so it can access it faster when it needs it. While it doesn't improve fps in all games (in some games the GPU matters more) it definitely improves 1% lows a lot and makes the gameplay smoother. So either your friend asked some kind of AI for this info or he's just jealous
Perplexe974@reddit
X3D is regarded as the best CPU for gaming, shooting or no. Your friend is jealous that's it. Keep your godtier CPU and enjoy it for as long as you can
Even-Act-85@reddit
9700x is good you probably wouldn't feel the difference in most games. However x3ds are underrated for one thing : they handle slower ram way better. So really you can cheap out on the ram and get an x3d or get better ram but a worse (such as 9700x) cpu
levios3114@reddit
Even if x3d isn't better in every game (which is wrong) there will be minimal benefits to getting the few better CPUs like 9900x and such except if you do a lot of stuff on your pc that you really need a lot of CPU power for
Ryan32501@reddit
If you play at 4k max settings, and have anything less than an enthusiast class GPU, the GPU will be the bottleneck 99.99% of the time, rendering the speed of the X3D useless.
If you play at 1440p or 1080p the X3D will be noticeably faster. Especially 1080p low/competitive settings, even with a mid tier GPU.
Point: If you have a 4060 or less and play at high graphics settings, don't bother with the X3D
If you play competitive games and lower graphics settings, get the X3D. Especially if you have a higher end GPU
Capt_Vandal@reddit
Your friend is jealous. The X3D CPUs have the best single core performance of any desktop CPU short of Apple's M4 and M5 CPUs which are not even X86 processors.
You will have a performance uplift in games thst is about 15-20% more frames per second than an Intel CPU and about 25-30% greater performance than a non-X3D AMD CPU. AAA games actually benefit more form have an X3D CPU.
I'd say enjoy your 7800X3D and your friend doesn't know what he's talking about.
botika03@reddit
Honestly don’t worry about it. You have one of if not the best cpu for gaming on the market right now. Enjoy using it
celzior@reddit
The 9700X will be fine objectively, but the 9800X3D smashes it in gaming performance.
iridescent_herb@reddit
normally people just say low 1% is where x3d shines, for VR games this makes a huge differenc.e
Targetm12@reddit
Now at least you know not to listen to anything that friend says about computers.
umomenjoyer@reddit
He probably is right in the sense that you could have survived with a cheaper non-X3D CPU and that shooters tend to be the most demanding, but X3D is obviously superior to non-X3D.
ReasonableNetwork255@reddit
lol .. to me as a 'common gamer' with a 5070ti i can tell you, i dont give a ratsas about all that . i can run 'any' game at 1440 ultra on an am4 5600 cpu capped at my monitor hz and it keeps frames pegged there .. but i have no issues with 'pros' that want to spend more money .. not impressing me haha ..
Fragluton@reddit
Your friend has no idea what they are talking about. At all. Benchmark speak for themselves, x3d is great for gaming in general.
five__head@reddit
Its a big performance difference, as you can see here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPQrqRue1ok
misteryk@reddit
if it's just gaming then no non-x3d cpu that could beat 9800x3d exists currently. the statement that you'd be fine with 9700x could be true depending on what games you play and at what resolution and your GPU
reegeck@reddit
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-9850x3d/19.html
There is a difference but there's a large number of variables; the game, whether you're GPU limited, what resolution etc.
It's just worth reading reviews of whatever you're considering buying and seeing if the difference in performance is worth it to you. The X3D chips tend to have better minimum FPS too.
NINJ4A1@reddit
For gaming prefer X3D for anything else is ok just the X ones.