Germany's AfD party adopts 'radical' manifesto ahead of polls
Posted by Tartan_Samurai@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 167 comments
Posted by Tartan_Samurai@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 167 comments
cambeiu@reddit
Last time Germany went all "pro-ethnic" we all know how it ended.
Be is Israel, Germany, Rwanda or the Balkans, the idea of ethno-states never turn out anything good.
BoltingBubby@reddit
Most of Asia turned out fine but ok. Just look for the answer you’re looking for little guy, good job👏
Guaire1@reddit
Most of asia isnt ethnostates
BoltingBubby@reddit
Most of Asia are homogeneous but ok lmaoo. 83 IQ spotted 🚨🚨🚨
MC_chrome@reddit
Eh, I don’t know if you can say that about China necessarily
Guaire1@reddit
China isnt most of Asia
Obscure_Occultist@reddit
Theres only three countries in asia that could be argued to be ethnic states. The Koreas and Japan. All three are simultaneously facing labour and demographics crisis.
BoltingBubby@reddit
At least they don’t have Mohammed’s and Ugga buggas raping and pillaging their country and culture. Sounds like a win to me. Stay dumb poor and ugly little guy
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
When you push a country to the brink you get what you asked for. At the peace conference after WW1, someone said that it was just a 20-yr armistice.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Jews and minorities didn't "ask" for a genocide, what the fuck.
Illiander@reddit
While you're right, the Treaty of Versaille was an absolute nasty thing. It's not surprising that Germany got real upset about it.
This is why after WW2, Germany got help to rebuild.
Prosthemadera@reddit
It was a nasty things, yes, anyone studying the history of Nazi Germany knows this.
But anyone studying Nazi Germany also knows that most people didn't vote for Hitler and that the Nazis started their their political repression before 1933 so there is the question of how much it really was German resentment over the Treaty of Versailles and how much was just plain voter suppression.
austin_8@reddit
Read The Economic Consequences of the Peace, the future of treaty was not unknown at the time.
Prosthemadera@reddit
I know the consequence of the treaty. Again:
Illiander@reddit
Why am I being reminded of things Americans keep saying about Trump?
Prosthemadera@reddit
Because you're looking for simple thought-terminating clichés and connection that aren't there instead of thinking beyond the superficial level about this subject?
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
Yeah, because it wasn't hard enough on Germany. Not because it was too hard lol.
ThanosDidNadaWrong@reddit
some people never learn
thesupremeburrito123@reddit
It really wasn't that bad compared to many other treaties of the era. Problem was it was harsh enough that it needed proper foreign backing to keep it in line, and since only France was willing to do that it was never going to work.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
I suspect you wanted to put a different name instead of Thanos but thought it would be too obvious.
ZeerVreemd@reddit
Okay, but is it actually the truth?
Where is this manifesto?
geissi@reddit
It's published on their website.
ZeerVreemd@reddit
A link would have been great.
geissi@reddit
Gee, where could the official program of a political party possibly be found?
Maybe it's published on their website under Regierungsprogramm?
No2Hypocrites@reddit
All European states are ethnic nation states. And they are all wealthy The least nation state one is actually "the Russian Federation"Â
big_cock_lach@reddit
Yeah, they’re confusing ethno-states (which is how most nations are formed for obvious reasons) with ethno-supremacists which are completely different things.
That said, the AfD’s rhetoric here is moving further away from nationalism and closer to ethno-supremacy which isn’t a good sign. The other examples they’ve listed were all ethno-supremacists as well.
Prosthemadera@reddit
It's still false to say all European countries are ethnostates. How they were formed is not relevant anymore.
big_cock_lach@reddit
A ethnostate is just a state that is predominantly a singular ethnic group. The vast majority of nations (including New Zealand where nearly 70% of the population are ethnically European) are ethnostates. Germany’s population is 73% ethnic Germans, and that number will be much higher if you look at ethnically European as a whole. It’s safe to say that it’s an ethnostate, even if ethnic Germans aren’t granted special privileges over other ethnic groups (which would be an ethno-supremacist policy).
SenorZorros@reddit
I feel like the rub is that if you zoom out deep enough every state is an ethnostate. After all, 100% of the people belong to the human race. Someone from Saxony in the former GDR may very well have more in common with someone from the Czech republic than with someone from (east)Frisia and Bayern is a whole animal on it's own. Nevertheless, with the exception of the Czech person they are counted as "German" despite them speaking a different dialect, having a different predominant religion and a lot of cultural differences.
Almost all European countries have similar cultural and linguistic boundaries which are not visible on a national scale but make the culture a massive tapestry of regional variances instead of a clear ethnicity.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Where are you getting this from? No, that just describes the demographics of a country. There is a reason why it's called on ethnostate. An ethnostate also enshrines ethnicity in the constitution, it creates laws favouring one ethnicity in one way or another.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocracy
That doesn't mean they are ethnostates.
big_cock_lach@reddit
An ethnocracy isn’t the same as an ethnostate. An ethnocracy is when you’re ruled by a certain ethnic group. An ethnostate is a state that is dominated by one ethnic or racial group:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/ethnostate
These terms are similar and can technically be used interchangeably for the most part, since a dominant ethnic group will likely effectively be a ruling ethnic group. Even in a democracy with proportional ethnic representation, the dominant ethnic group will have much more influence. The main difference though is that an ethnocracy can still be ruled by a minority ethnic or racial group. Also, an ethnocracy implies, but doesn’t necessarily require, that the ruling group deliberately supports their own group at the expense of others. However, that’s becoming more true of the term ethnostate too since it’s largely only talked about in the context of transforming into one which would require ethnic cleansing.
Prosthemadera@reddit
This is funny. Your own link proves you wrong.
In any case, I don't take my knowledge on a subject from a dictionary. That only leads to superficial thinking.
Make up your mind.
But I'm not interested in talking about word meanings. You think Germany and New Zealand are ethnostates, cool, you are free to think that. But I think you're wrong.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Not true.
People in Serbia are not wealthy.
Russia is the least nation state indeed but not in the way you meant.
No2Hypocrites@reddit
Exceptions are not the rule.Â
They are still wealthier than most countries. Just not as wealthy compared to France.Â
Prosthemadera@reddit
You literally said "they are all wealthy". One exception disproves your claim. And it's not the only exception. Belarus is not wealthy. Neither is Moldova or even Russia. Bulgaria? Also no.
No2Hypocrites@reddit
No. The exception was Belgium.Â
And again, they are all wealthy compared to non nation states in Africa. They are not wealthy when compared to other nation states in Europe such as France
SenorZorros@reddit
France has a ton of indigenous ethnic/language subgroups like Bretons, Normans and Occitans. They just got culturally genocided a bit during and after the revolution in favour of parisian. Same for Spain, Italy, Poland (which only partially overlaps with historical poland) and really every country in Europe. "ethnic states" are a 19th century fantasy made real through the active suppression of border languages.
No2Hypocrites@reddit
Yep. And it worked out. France destroyed every minority language culture and now they have a uniform, stable and wealthy state. They even destroyed Dutch language in Brussels, German language in Luxembourg. Correlation is not causation but there is a lot of correlation here.Â
You can't benefit from being a nation state and tut-tut'ing others being nation states.Â
Prosthemadera@reddit
Belgium? I said Serbia...
All nations are wealthy compared to the least wealthy country. The second most poor country is more wealthy than the poorest country.
But you didn't say that. You said "they are all wealthy". No qualifier. Which is false and I will leave it at that because this will just go in circles.
No2Hypocrites@reddit
Yes. And Serbia is richer than majority of the countries.Â
If I plotted nation states vs non nation states into a chart, nation states would be on the higher end.Â
You are nitpicking
Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit
Agree or disagree: “Germany is for the Germans.”
CoffeeWorldly9915@reddit
"America for the Americans" Monroe Doctrine-ass statement XD.
Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit
It’s actually direct quote from Hitler, but yeah. Hitler did learn a lot of of his ideology from the US.
No2Hypocrites@reddit
Germany is for German citizens
Nahcep@reddit
All of them? Even the UK, or Spain, or Belgium, or BiH?
There's also a difference between "an entity formed where a group lives" and "wherever one of ours lives is ours", which is the Russian policy. And AfD's "Ausländer raus" too
Also Poland used to be multiculti before Germany did a thing with the largest minority, and Moscow resettled people around because nation states were easier to do divide et impera with
No2Hypocrites@reddit
Yes. BiH is an exception and abomination. Belgium and BiH have both historically complicated reasons to exist
Weirdo9495@reddit
Good luck with "pro-ethnic" mentality with Germany's demographics, too.
Levitz@reddit
Well the easiest argument to make would be that this is already happening anyway.
Weirdo9495@reddit
How is it already happening? Nobody is invading Germany. I'm talking literally being unable to maintain your sovereignity because you will have an atrophied populace of old people.
Levitz@reddit
Wait you mean it as in "defend from aggression"?
You expect immigrants to fight for Germany???
Weirdo9495@reddit
Yes, i do. Virtually a third of Germany by now has some recent immigrant origin, and disproportionately amongst younger and middle aged people. Do you think that German army is staffed only by "purebloods"? And have you ever seen how non-white the US army is for example?
Give immigrants reasons to feel good in your country, and they and their children will regard it as their home, that they'll be willing to defend.
Levitz@reddit
This is utterly delusional. Yes there are a lot of immigrants in the army, because it pays great for the credentials it requires, not because of some sense of national pride. It's not about belonging, it's about money.
None of that applies given a war of survival. If you seriously believe that given the state of German nationalism a freaking second generation immigrant is going to be willing to die to defend the country then I don't even know what to say.
TerrorFace@reddit
Delusion is thinking people ever really fought for national pride. Humanity has a history of conscription, drafting, slavery to build its armies. War is often romanticized where you have people dying to defend their state, empire, etc., but the reality is most, regardless of how many generations of their family lived in and served that place, really fought for some sort of compensation. The heroic stories are just to make being convinced or forced to join an army seem not as bad.
Weirdo9495@reddit
Just out of curiosity, do you think non-white members of the US army are universally unpatriotic and would flee the army as soon as it got dangerous?
SilverViolinist7777@reddit
funny thing is that immigrants are sometimes way more patriotic than those born in a country, because they had to "prove" it every step of the way. in the same manner that converts to a religion are often more zealous than those born into that religion.
there's a universal drive to become a part of something grand, and new members of a community are especially vulnerable to that, given they have left their homeland, family, culture, language, etc.
Bellerophonix@reddit
Since the subject was the German military, that idiot insisting immigrants wouldn't fight reminds me of when they did a "study" after WWI to prove Jews were shirkers, only to quickly shelve it when it turned out they served at higher rates than "ethnic Germans"
TheFriendshipMachine@reddit
Well yeah, they weren't winning and it's better to block you than face the fact they might be wrong and also a biggot.
The idea that only some "pureblooded" national would be willing to fight and die for their country is so hilariously wrong and the entire history of war is basically one big example of that not being the case. Immigrants fighting their new homeland's wars for them is a very long standing practice.
And as another commenter pointed out, this is often because they are among the most patriotic demographics. They weren't simply born into the country without a say in it.. they actively chose to make it their home. After everything they've invested into building a life there they have a vested interest in making the place safer/better for themselves and their family.
Graybeard_Shaving@reddit
*happened.
cambeiu@reddit
Nah, they will ban the gays and all demographic issues will be magically resolved.
Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit
In Germany, it is illegal to be a Nazi. And yet somehow, they are allowing the Nazis to have their own brand new political party.
Andreas1120@reddit
I really feel like being “anti immigration” is not the same thing as intending genocide. I feel like instantly equating them is very polarizing to the political discourse and actually has the opposite of the desired effect. Meaning it drives people toward those positions and not away. Merkel paid a huge political price for the million syrians she admitted. Those Syrians come from a culture where rape is always the fault of the woman. Especially if she is not “dressed appropriately”. So i feel like not wanting that culture in Germany is ok. Ok everyone go ahead and call me Nazi.
ChiChiKnee@reddit
Preach. In particular when those pro ethnic nation states end up having the means and support to conduct heinous crimes against humanity. Happened in the past and is still happening today. The tiger doesn’t change its stripes.
Crossy_V@reddit
I hate Germany,
There are still people who vote the fucking AfD even though they don’t want them to govern and the CDU does everything which leads to the AfD getting more traction as if they wanted to be a government with the nazis.
I hate Germany
Ldefeu@reddit
This sounds a lot like what's happening in Australia with the mainline conservative liberal party and hard right one nation party. The liberal party have become kind of a joke now and are trying to be more like one nation to get votes.Â
Tilting_Gambit@reddit
Last year's australian federal election saw the liberals crushed. One Nation got zero seats. It was a total victory for the left.Â
In terms of seats at the state level they hold under 1% of total seats across the states. The 2026 SA election which was broadcast by media as a shock, left them with 4 seats out of 43.Â
They're a minor, minor party. But they're the only party that is hard-line against immigration.Â
At this point being anti immigration can't even be centred as a racist policy. In terms of cost of living and house prices, centrist and left wing people are seriously looking at immigration as a problem for them as individuals.Â
If either the coalition, Labor or the greens took a hard-line anti immigration policy, they would smash the elections. And if democracy is supposed to be an attempt to represent the desires of the electorate, these policies really should be entertained, seriously, by mainstream parties.Â
Put it this way. If Labor committed to reducing immigration in an attempt to reduce housing demand, they wouldn't have to worry about elections for the next decade. If the coalition government did the same, the 2028 election will be a serious challenge.Â
I totally reject the idea that wanting to resolve housing costs is an attempt to copy One Nation. One Nation are a single issue party: no immigrants. And they've been doing it in a way that we can basically surmise as a purely racist endeavour. They were doing it when it was unpopular, and happen to be doing it again today when it's a lot more popular.
If another party wants to reduce immigration, it's not an automatically racist policy. There are real incentives to immigration, but there's also costs. E.g. more people looking to buy or rent a house that the Anderson family from Broadmeadows might want to live in. If the voters want to reduce housing demand through reduced immigration, they're not racist. They just want to follow their totally rational desires to live somewhere they want to live.Â
If the coalition cuts immigration, I don't want people like you getting on your high horse and saying they're a bunch of racists. As somebody trying to buy a house right now, I am not a racist for wanting the housing market to cool off and have a few hundred thousand less people in Melbourne next year.Â
SpirosNG@reddit
I have heard your argument by people countless of times and while it might make sense in paper it doesn't seem to actually materialise when parties try this approach.Â
And the best example I have to give you for that as an Australian is the UK and the USA, where the centre left parties take measures to reduce illegal immigration, increase deportations, increase funding for border control etc. And it ends up as follows:
The party ends up losing some of it's original voters to other leftist parties because they realise the party is shifting slowly to the right and the single issue immigration voters that they hoped to get don't even ever learn about the enacted policies. The people who were going to vote for neonazi parties are more likely than not to live in completely divorced information bubbles.
Tilting_Gambit@reddit
I just explained why this is bullshit lol.
Wanting affordable housing is not a "neonazi" policy. Stop saying it is.Â
If the electorate wants less immigration, it's not for you to assert that they're all a bunch of racists. I am not a racist, I am not a nazi. I want the housing market to cool off so myself and my future children can afford to live in a house they own.Â
Because of people like you, centre mainstream parties will never entertain this policy because they know you guys will pull the "racist" card. You are condemning this policy to only be a fringe issue platformed by One Nation, instead of a more responsible party. And when One Nation does get seats because you refuse to allow mainstream parties to reduce immigration, you're going to scratch your head.
SpirosNG@reddit
I'm sorry, I don't understand how you got that from my comment. Where did I accuse you or the electorate of being anything?Â
Your point as I understood it is that mainstream parties don't do anything to reduce immigration to stop the rise of neonazi parties, my counterpoint was that they do and I provided two anglophone countries as examples (UK under Starmer and USA under Biden) that implemented stronger anti-illegal immigration policies that had the opposite effect than the one you said they would.Â
Am I missing something?
fetafrosch@reddit
We are getting dumber and loose the ability for empahaty by the day. Both as well as other factors help AfD (or NPD lite). I mean look at the election stuff they put out it was just: 'HoW dOeS tHiS mAkE yOu FeLl, Be ScAreD pLs, PlS vOtE fOr DaDdY hItLeR' Really just vibe shit but folks are too dumb to realise they get played like a fiddle.
Anxious_Katz@reddit
Lol, the CDU under Merz is, in my opinion, indistinguishable from the AfD. I think they believe they can steal AfD votes by acting like them. But given the choice between Coca-Cola and a generic knockoff cola, everyone is going to go for the original.
Thisconnect@reddit
the amount of liberal parties trying to "steal" from far right by doing the same thing is silly.
They will not change back to their watered down version of far right AND you are bringing their horrible policies into "mainstream" legitimizing them
Jellz@reddit
This is how the Overton window tanks hard to the right. It's been happening in the US for decades: Republicans move more to the right and instead of trying to pull back in the other direction, the Democrats went along to the right with them.
Emergency-Style7392@reddit
Maybe economically. In terms of social policy it only went left on both sides
The_Dragon_Redone@reddit
Why do people keep saying the Overton window moved? Republicans are the same as they were 50 to 60 years ago.
The only thing that's changed is an increase in regulatory capture.
It just sounds like a bunch of people born yesterday learned to read.
Weirdo9495@reddit
The Democrats are absolutely not pushing to the right alongside Republicans anymore. This is a trope with very little basis in currently reality.
kapsama@reddit
They just adopted a hard stance on immigration in 2024 to appeal to conservatives.
Weirdo9495@reddit
That "hard stance" was the bare minimum and something virtually every other country in the world considers non-controversial.
kapsama@reddit
It's still an example of Democrats adopting Republican positions and moving right regardless of whether you personally approve of it.
Weirdo9495@reddit
Republican position was to deport illegal migrants, close down the border, do away with various migrant and refugee programs Democrats instituted, and do nothing regarding expanding legal migration.
Democrat position was to ensure staffing of border while continuing to support "temporary" migration programs that effectively allow perpetual stays, continue supporting sanctuary cities, healthcare, housing and monetary benefits to refugee claimants, occasionally enforce deportation of illegal immigrants mostly just if they were violent felons.
These positions are not remotely the same and Democrats giving away a bare minimum of their extremely permissive migration policy is hardly a meaningful "running on the right", especially if you compare their policies to just about any other country in the world.
kapsama@reddit
It still represents a rightward shift of their prior position. Nitpicking doesn't negate this.
DYTREM@reddit
This is what the Canadian Liberal Party is doing at the moment.
It stole and implemented two of the three platform planks of the Conservative Party during the last election, including 4 of their MO's who crossed the floor to the Liberals.
Illiander@reddit
Take a look at British Labour if you want to see where "trying to steal votes from the right" gets you.
Your normal base abandons you, and the right laughs in your face.
amobishoproden@reddit
Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds ringing true yet again.
Anxious_Katz@reddit
And it was in Germany where this statement was proven to be true!
Weirdo9495@reddit
Merz is hardly a liberal.
amobishoproden@reddit
Yeah member of the board of Blackrock Germany, and a multimillionaire is not a liberal.
Centre right party CDU is not liberal? Even their wikipedia page shows them to be "liberal conservative"
That's like saying Mark Rutte or Macron isn't a liberal. Are you well?
Weirdo9495@reddit
He's a conservative and a reactionary. He's hardly even a true liberal as he supports heavy subsidies for his clientele, the wealthy, the car industrialists and the pensioners, at the expense of remainder of the country. Being liberal is about being anti-intervenionist. Merz is quite far away from that.
Prosthemadera@reddit
You are wrong. The AfD is much worse. Did you not read the article?
Anxious_Katz@reddit
Have you seen CDU actions? To me actions are much much more important than a party manifest.
Prosthemadera@reddit
The CDU is only worse because the AfD isn't in power. That is why they only have manifests so far but what they want is already bad enough.
Crossy_V@reddit
Yeah I think the statement is wrong is generally wrong because the AfDs manifesto is basically what the nazis said they wanted in 1930 and we all know how that ended but the CDU doesn’t officially plan that and it doesn’t seem they strive to it even though they allow the AfD to get the power they want.
I would say this makes them in the sense responsible as Das Zentrum, DNVP, BVP and more as they allowed the Nazi Terror into the world as a tyranny.
So I wouldn’t say that the CDU is worse than the AfD they are allowing the AfD (maybe not intentionally but their actions make me doubt that whatever their intentions are)
PanzerOfTheLeka@reddit
They present themselves better as serious and upstanding due to popular beliefs that outer appearance and the manner of speech are an indicator as to how good or reasonable your contents are, which you talk about, and your actions.
Basically they smile, seem successful and wear suits etc. And that is enough to convince many people that they are good or right in any way, shape or form.
Of course they are a prime example as to why outer appearnce and presentation should never cloud your judgement on someone. But that would require actually thinking about what is happening. And people dont think.
PerforatedPie@reddit
This has been a running problem in other countries also, it's essentially proven now that it is a failed strategy.
Crossy_V@reddit
In my opinion is the CDU currently like the AfD just 10 years ago and going down the same path
Weirdo9495@reddit
As a person who is moving to Germany from a shittier place and to be with their trans German partner and trying hard to learn the language and culture in spite of how bleak your politics and mentality of majority of Germans looks like, i feel you. All i ask is that we don't give up before it's certain every semblance of decency in this country is gone.
Illiander@reddit
As a trans person trying to flee the UK, Germany looks like it's on a knife-edge for doing the same thing it did in the early 1930s. Fash turning one of the most progressive places in the world into one of the worst.
Double-Portion@reddit
In my religious tradition we elect pastors. They typically get a year or two and then we vote to confirm their position permanently.
I was there for a vote where some people (apparently) planned a protest vote, several people voted no even though they wanted him to remain the pastor because they were trying to send some kind of message.
He had the majority, but their particular by-laws required over 66% yes.
The regional presbyter who presided over the vote received several questions asking if they could do a revote from such fools.
I don’t know why people insist on voting against their own interests
Prosthemadera@reddit
Why do you hate Germany when most Germans don't support the AfD? Makes no sense.
Weirdo9495@reddit
Most Germans support either the AfD or parties that are pushing shitty AfD-adjacent policies that are both worryingly similar to AfD and will end up likely pushing even more people to vote for AfD.
For example today Merz announced he will be cutting sick leave laws. Yet another policy on the back of the working population while there are zero laws harming either pensioners that are being subsidized by remainder of the country by an utterly demographically unsustainable pyramid scheme, or the wealthiest part of the country that dodges the high income taxes through low/non-existent wealth, property and inheritance taxes. Merz is continuously making the politics for his clientele only (pensioners and the wealthiest) and openly tells to people who actually sustain the country that they are lazy and must work harder. How is that a person one can feel happy about so many of your countrymen supporting?
Prosthemadera@reddit
So most Germans don't support AfD and their policies. If you want to talk about similar policies then you're moving on to a different point.
What you need to understand is that this is not unique to Germany. It is happening all over the world and the causes are multifaceted but it's safe to say that rising economic inequality and the subsequent rise in dissatisfaction causes resentment and anger that is in turn being exploited by far right politicians, billionaires connected to those politicians who control more and more of the free press, and foreign governments through social media.
This is not new, this has happened throughout human history. Hating Germans won't get you anywhere. We need people who are brave and offer new solutions. Like Mamdani. He didn't focus on hating immigrants or trans people, he talked about what people actually need and so even Trump supporters voted for him.
Weirdo9495@reddit
Sorry but i feel that is bit overly generous. CDU (the ruling party) has a large share of its support amongst the 70+ demographic. People who frankly often don't even consider policies much when voting, they just vote as they have all their life. Would they stop voting for CDU if it implemented too many AfD policies at some point? Maybe, but who knows.
As for middle aged people, AfD support there climbs at over 30%. And yes, those are truly horrible numbers in a country with 6-7 larger parties, and a country that has been ruled by mostly centre-right for most of its existence.
Yes, i broadly agree. I never said this was unique to Germany, and i don't hate Germans as a whole, it's more of a tired resignation.Â
But not all countries are the same. In Anglo countries in particular the situation is less bad than here on the continent. Most Anglo countries either have moderate left governments or have far right falling down in popularity, and there isn't afaik a single Anglo country where right of centre has the support of well over half of the populace. I wish people here would be more like that and i worry greatly for the prolonged harm this will bring to an already deeply systematically troubled society in terms of demographics (much worse than in any Anglo country), further accentuated by the deeply unfair and frankly primitive pension system, designed for a completely different demographic structure.
Germany has Die Linke who are roughly his equivalent. But their support is capped at 10-11%. Even in Berlin, they are at some 17% and it is doubtful whether the city will exchange its current centre-right government for a centre-left one in following elections.
Compare this to Greens who are getting 20% in the UK, with 50%+ of UK supporting left of centre parties and heavily skewed in favour of the young. Even in the US Trump is at record low popularity despite Democrats being very socially progressive and economically more and more left-leaning. Germany has no chance of getting a federal government as left as even the Democrats at this point in time, even though conservatives are almost constantly in power, there's no comparable backlash to them.
I can hardly blame young progressive Germans who consume lots of Anglo media and interact with its communities, and then look at their country with increasing disappointment and disillusion.
podun@reddit
I understand where you coming from, but please don't hate all of Germany right away, there are still some sensible people left.
Irr3sponsibl3@reddit
The troubling thing is, would things even be that different if AfD won power? The far-right populists campaign on being right-wing and reactionary on immigration and cultural issues, and left-wing on cost-of-living issues but people like Trump or Meloni end up delivering the same neoliberal policies as before. Meloni will scapegoat radical islam or immigrants to get into power, then issue 500,000 work visas and have pictures taken giggling next to a literal jihadist.
PinkyLine@reddit
*insert this pic from 4ch with Germany-shaped headed guy, with part of former DDR seething with rage*
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
Shitty reporting failing to make the distinction clear that this is the state party, not the national one.
At any rate, this will continue as long as the CSU and SPD, along with the wider society, doesn't show respect to East Germans, their culture, and what they went through from 1990 onward.
TheRealHanzo@reddit
That is a naive take at best. Yes, this is a state party not the national party. But they dare this now on the state level because they feel secure enough to do it there and seem to have enough of a hold in public votes. What makes you think they would do anything else, on a national level once they gain enough votes to do it?
Secondly, even if you are right and they lose their protest party advantage after getting into government, what guarantees do we have that they a) will not do as much damage to perceived others such as migrants, LGBTQ and political operative, b) will not change legislature to prevent them being voted out of power and c) play according to the democratic rules, especially given that one of their major selling points is that they don't respect the rules and want to change them?
Every authoritarian party did exactly that in the past and even in the recent past. Unlike most democratic moderate government changes, with these authoritarian parties there is a risk for real human suffering and damage involved. Why risk it?
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
I think naïveté and paranoia are opposite ends of a spectrum.
Didn't say I don't. I merely pointed out the sloppy reporting.
1) They would be in a coalition. In fact, the argument would be in favour of letting them into one sooner rather than later, to dispel the idea they would be effective governors before their vote share continues to grow.
2) What "damage" do you mean?
3) You seriously think they'll (attempt to) change the legislature to prevent themselves from being voted out? Apart from it being wildly unrealistic that that could ever work, have the AfD given any indication they intend to do that? See my first sentence in this comment.
4) Which democratic rules? All parties fall afoul of various rules from time to time, for one, and for another, government exists in order to pass, i.e. change, laws.
You're acting like I said I'd vote for them. My comment above described a state of affairs which currently exists. If you want an answer to that question, you should hold some in-depth conversations with people who voted for the AfD. You'll have to work quite hard to convince them you won't judge them, given the denunciatory climate in the country, and you haven't a hope of having an honest, insightful discussion without that. And, per my edit above, that's the thing nobody's interested in doing, and that's why politics in Germany are this dysfunctional right now.
TheRealHanzo@reddit
I don't have to be paranoid. I just have to listen and observe what's been happening.
2019: no one thought Brexit could happen, yet in 2020 it happened 2024: no one thought masked and armed paramilitary would roam the streets of the US and hunt and shoot down people on the US, yet in 2025 ICE agents did exactly that 2024: no one thought it would be possible, a judge would be forced to retreat from her candidacy for the Germans constitutional court due to her political party membership, yet just recently it happened.
We have seen it in Russia, Turkey, Hungary, even the US how fast authoritarian parties move to control media, the legislature and the government. Why should it be different in Germany? It's a conservative fairytale they tell themselves and the rest of the society that extremist parties once they get into government and are controlled by a more moderate political partner. It never worked. The only thing that happens is that extremist ideas and methods take hold.
There are plenty of connections between authoritarian think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation and the CDU and AfD. Members of the AfD fantasize about Remigration and wish there was a German ICE AFTER all the incidents in Minnesota.
The danger to democracy in Germany is real. No need to downplay it.
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
Germany has far, far stronger democratic institutions and a much better educated populace than Turkey, Russia, or the USA.
You're perfectly welcome to live your life in fear, of course. I'm neither going to disagree nor debate with you how likely Germany is to descend into authoritarianism. That is angels dancing on the head of a pin.
The thing I care about, the point I made at the start and which nobody seems to be interested in, is that sounding alarm bells that voting for the AfD will inevitably lead to authoritarianism or even Nazism just alienates the millions of people who voted for them and who do not want that, and makes it less likely you'll win them over to voting for whatever parties you consider acceptable. So even if—in fact, especially if—you genuinely think that, it would behoove you to understate the case, and more importantly put some effort into understanding those voters.
Prosthemadera@reddit
How? The AfD constantly complains about how the left and the greens support authoritarianism and how they want to take your freedoms aways and how they want to destroy Germany and Germans. It didn't put voters off, no, it gave them voters.
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
The article does a pretty bad job. It doesn't say anything about specific authoritarian policies, and it repeatedly commits the appeal to experts fallacy. It also doesn't say how anything would be accomplished--in fact it notes that a lot of the AfD's programme is unworkable at the state level.
>I don't think so.
I do, because I know people who have stopped voting for the Greens/SPD/Linke because they're sick of being called Nazis.
It's not difficult to understand the people who don't like the AfD, because they announce it from the rooftops. What AfD voters think is difficult to find out, because it's social suicide to announce you vote for them, and the reasons why people vote for a party that manifestly does not represent their real interests are complex and not explicit. It's not sufficient to say, AfD voters in small-town (former) East Germany don't like immigrants and so they vote for the party that says it'll get rid of the immigrants--because those people don't dislike immigrants. Demonstrably. They are voting for protest parties, most notably the AfD but also the BSW, Linke, Heimat etc. along with small parties like III. Weg, because they feel like the traditional West German parties betrayed them in how they conducted politics and ultimately ran the country from 1990 onwards. And that scorn and political differential between east and west still exist, and as long as they continue to exist, people in the east will continue to vote for these parties.
You commented elsewhere that I wrote nothing about the culture of East Germany or how the CDU and SPD fail to respect it. I listed authors, composers, technologists. What else do you want? You want to know about the culture of East Germany? There are lots of novels. There are museums. There are biopics and documentaries and exhibitions galore. And there are flights and hotels and train tracks and highways to get people there. What there isn't is respect.
I'm not going to pretend to be the AfD voter whisperer. I just shut my mouth and listened to people who have had different experiences in life. I show humanity and humility to both sides. My comments all over this thread have neither divulged my own politics nor advocated for any change on the political level. I have merely described the political landscape in Germany as I see it. And I'm the one who gets dozens or hundreds of down votes, because I dare to criticise the narrative that AfD voters want the gas chambers back, and suggest the situation may be more complex than green-party-voting nineteen-year-olds in Sweden and Britain imagine.
Prosthemadera@reddit
You haven't addressed the fact that the AfD is very alarmist but it hasn't alienated voters. Why is that? What is so special about AfD voters that they are alienated by alarmism from other parties?
Anyway, regarding the specific authoritarian policies, from the article:
These are policies typical of authoritarians.
And? The fact they these are even put into the manifesto is bad enough.
How often are they being called a Nazi? Is that a common thing for them?
Are those the same people who cry about free speech and that we shouldn't censor ourselves just to appease the feelings of snowflakes?
People have arguee "I only voted AfD because someone called me a Nazi" for over a decade and I am not convinced. If you vote AfD because someone called you a Nazi then you would have voted AfD anyway.
It's not difficult to understand the people who like the AfD, because they announce it from the rooftops.
AfD voters are more present in the public than any other voting group. Everything is about them, everyone has to cater to their special feelings, politicians from other parties copy their talking pints, while at the same they want to attack and insult everyone they hate - and then they cry when people call them out for it.
That is, quite frankly, total bullshit. They are ALL OVER social media, they are being interviewed all the time, everyone wants to know what they think.
What exactly happens to AfD voters? Nothing. They sometimes get called a Nazi. Oh whoop-de-doo. Big deal. Do you know what they call leftists? Or Green voters? Being called a Nazi is nothing in comparison!
But it is true. I have seen what AfD voters say. I have talked to them. They don't like immigrants - specifically Muslims.
How does listing the name of a composer prove that the SPD disrespect (that is word you used) East German culture???
Clearly not:
Oh god, are you for real? This narrative doesn't exist. Which is weird, since your whole thing is about not making assumptions but listening and yet here you are with this ridiculous strawman which only shows you have not listened but are instead doing the equivalent of calling people Nazis.
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
You're convinced you're right, and you're interested in being right and scoring points off other people, including me, so I'm not going to reply to these points. You can walk away from this with a clear moral and rhetorical victory. If you want to be provided some insight into others' perspectives, you need to engage in conversation without the intention of showing the other party where they're wrong.
Prosthemadera@reddit
I put effort into my reply and for you to just run away now is intellectually weak.
Unlike you, who is convinced you're wrong?
So that was a lie. You only have empathy for AfD voters. They can insult me and attack me but I must listen and never criticize them. They deserve empathy but I don't.
This is such an annoying double standard and I am tired of it.
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
I have no idea why you got so pissed off about my question of whether you're German as to call me a weirdo unprompted, but it's a highly relevant question. If you are you should have learned in school about what happened after the reunification to the former East Germans whose voting habits you're now bemoaning. If not, you'd probably have to do a lot of homework, for which the "culture" I cited elsewhere, which you keep complaining about being inadequate to explain the connection between the SPD and disrespect for East Germany (which by the way I cited the SPD and CDU together; this isn't something party-specific), could be helpful. The fact is that it's not my job to get you up to speed. There is a history there, and it's not mine, and it is available to learn about, and if you know the causes of people's discontent then that's a step towards understanding and empathising with those people.
Ultimately your problem isn't with me. I'm the messenger of news you clearly don't want to hear: people vote for the AfD. I don't, so I don't know why you're getting angry with me. I'm telling you, if you want people to not vote for the AfD, the solution isn't acting holier than thou, or like you have the answers. If you've spoken before with the people I've been talking about then you would already know what I've been saying.
And if you want to effect change anywhere, you have to live with that double standard. Either you're more intelligent and enlightened than the AfD voters, in which case more empathy and insight and patience is demanded of you in your quest to change the world than them in their benighted and stupid voting patterns—or not.
You haven't the foggiest clue whom I do and do not have empathy for. This isn't about me.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Really? I told you how I responded to your comment but you ignored everything and instead of actually responding to a single thing I said you ask me if I'm German and you have no idea why that's weird?
If you don't want to explain how the SPD and CDU are disrespecting East German culture or what naming a composer has to do with anything then why are you still here? It's not my job to find out what you think and explain your argument.
I have talked to them, I never called them Nazi, it's impossible to talk to them, simply asking why diversity is bad makes them angry, they see you as an immediate threat if you disagree with them. You act as if they're all just misunderstood victims of people who call them Nazis when in reality many of them they are unreachable. And I am not going to sacrifice my own political ideas just to appease them and to stop them from voting AfD because appeasement will not stop them from voting AfD, it will only confirm their choice.
You're not talking about substance at all. You're just pointing the finger at me and telling me I need more empathy and patience and insight. How? You never say. Show us how empathy and patience actually looks like. Should I talk to AfD voters the same way you talk to me? Is this what you think empathy is?
Do you think your comments, your attitude towards me is going to change anything? Again, you talk about empathy but is that what you are doing here? Are you treating me with empathy? No. You are lecturing me.
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
Had you told me whether you were German it would have enabled me to reply a lot more precisely. I assumed that was obvious.
You're clearly really invested in this, and you indicate you're frustrated about the conversations you've had with AfD voters. So you're at a dead end. I—as someone who has had the conversations with AfD voters you apparently seek—am trying to provide you with a different perspective, and your reaction is to get shirty with me and call me condescending, arrogant, and a weirdo. Does that seem logically consistent to you?
I don't think you actually want to understand or be sympathetic. You want to be right, you want to have fights, you want to feel confirmed in your righteousness. So much so that you're directing it all at me, whose politics probably align with yours.
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
Are you German?
Prosthemadera@reddit
How does that help or contribute in any way, you weirdo? You talk such a big game about empathy and listening but you don't actually care. You are here to lecture us ignorant idiots.
Go away.
HamunaHamunaHamuna@reddit
Because it is true. no matter what the - frankly - ignorant and bigoted masses actually want, the leaders of AfD do want a new Nazi Reich, as should be obvious to anyone who listen to them. And getting into government even with a minority position of no more than 30% of the votes have traditionally been enough for such parties to demolish the democratic institutions before, many times in history.
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
Is that the point at which you stopped reading?
HamunaHamunaHamuna@reddit
Right, understand the people who don't even understand what they're doing themselves - unless they want to put nazis in power, in which case fuck them and their wants - And what do they want? Oh, just ethno-nationalism, scapegoating, bigotry, conservatism... The exact things AfD promises them. But "not nazism" just nazism but "actually nice and for the best".
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
So you haven't understood them. That's unsurprising, since you're presumably not German, but then you aren't really going to be able to have anything useful to say.
HamunaHamunaHamuna@reddit
But I do understand them, and we have the exact same kind of party rising in my country, the Swedish Democrats (fascists have such an ironic naming sense). They're all "where did my country gone, why is there black people and why can't I harass gay people in peace!? It's THEIR fault I don't have a job!"
TheRealHanzo@reddit
The tragedy of the AfD voter is that his frustration with the traditional, legacy parties led them to vote for the AfD. If you look at the social and economic background of the average AfD voter, and compare it with the social and economic program of the AfD it is obvious that they will eventually vote against their own interests... Legacy media as well as the legacy parties have often belittled these people and their worries. At this point, however, the AfD increasingly drops their civil mask and expresses their true intentions. Any decent person should be looking for political alternatives.
kitti-kin@reddit
What would showing respect for East Germans and their culture look like, to you?
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
I've had this conversation with quite a few West Germans, including older (80+) people. I ask them if they've ever visited East Germany, apart from Berlin, Leipzig, or Weimar. They rarely have. And they've never spent any amount of extended time there.
What I would also consider relevant: whether they have any knowledge of good things that happened in East Germany, during or after the GDR period—that is to say, do they have any shred of a conception of East Germans as anything other than poor victims.
-Hi-Reddit@reddit
Holy shit what a victim complex you have
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
Where does it say I'm referring to myself? I'm neither German nor a right-wing voter.
-Hi-Reddit@reddit
Seeing it as either A) they have some political history knowledge, or B) they see east Germans as poor victims, with no alternative option C etc., is so deeply flawed that youve got some kinda complex thata for sure.
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
What's your option C then?
-Hi-Reddit@reddit
There are SO MANY potential option Cs.
Ignorance.
Nuance.
Literally any opinions other than seeing them as victims.
Even bots have more imagination. Whats your major malfunction here?
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
Why are you so rude?
-Hi-Reddit@reddit
Aw is diddums mad that i dont coddle idiocy? Oh well.
kitti-kin@reddit
So you would like them to visit? Not any kind of political change, just attention?
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
There is a symbolic value in that. I believe that if a significant portion of the population of the former West Germany had first-hand experience of the East and actually spent non-trivial amounts of time engaging in non-trivial conversation, the body politic would be improved.
Prosthemadera@reddit
That is false. The article explains it in the first paragraph.
How are they disrespecting their culture?
Maybe people here don't understand the situation because you haven't explained it.
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
Here's the first paragraph:
Where is it clear that it's the state's own AfD and not the national party's polling in the state?
No idea why you quoted that. It has nothing to do with which party is being talked about.
I've put plenty of comments up here explaining my position. Why don't you read them?
Why don't you read my comments?
Prosthemadera@reddit
Because the article is about the state elections. It's not a poll for the national election.
It has to do with your claim that the article doesn't distinguish between national and state party.
I did, here they are:
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/comments/1sk12s0/germanys_afd_party_adopts_radical_manifesto_ahead/ofxg9mx/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/comments/1sk12s0/germanys_afd_party_adopts_radical_manifesto_ahead/ofxblrz/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/comments/1sk12s0/germanys_afd_party_adopts_radical_manifesto_ahead/ofx1t62/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/comments/1sk12s0/germanys_afd_party_adopts_radical_manifesto_ahead/ofx956d/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/comments/1sk12s0/germanys_afd_party_adopts_radical_manifesto_ahead/ofwlcnn/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/comments/1sk12s0/germanys_afd_party_adopts_radical_manifesto_ahead/ofwfns8/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/comments/1sk12s0/germanys_afd_party_adopts_radical_manifesto_ahead/ofw4tcy/
You talk about Schumann, and Mendelssohn. You wonder how many people know about the GDR. But nothing specific about how SPD or CDU don't respect the culture of East Germany. Or what the culture of East Germany even is.
Nahcep@reddit
What's the DDR culture that makes it different to the BRD part? Genuine question, since here you're all Niemcy no matter if you're from Saarland, Munich or Frankfurt at Oder
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
I didn't actually mean the former East German state. Its territory was previously the place of Wagner, Bach, Schumann, and Mendelssohn; of Kleist, Hauptmann, Fontane, and Lessing; of Bauhaus and Zeiss; and the chosen home of Schiller, Goethe, Brecht, and Marx. I think even most Germans don't know where within Germany their artists came from, but I consider it important, as prior to 1871 Germany was not a political entity—look at how vehemently people remind one that Hitler was Austrian. Certainly Germans now don't realise that the GDR had as many publicly-funded opera houses as the FRG with a fifth the population.
Professional-Syrup-0@reddit
For starters: The DDR didn’t imprison gay men for being gay into the 21st century like the BRD did, which is one of those issues where some Germans argue the „leftism“ has gone to far.
While the BRD was supporting Apartheid not only in Africa, but also in Palestine. It’s why the BRD to this day does not recognise Palestine as a state, yet the statehood of Israel is considered “Staatsräson“, one of the highest goals of the BRD.
The Germany that recognised and supported Palestine was the DDR.
While the BRD was helping apartheid South Africa and Israel with getting nukes.
Those and many other topics were supposed to be „Unified“ when Germany „Unified“, and all German people were supposed to vote on an actual Constitution, which the Grundgesetz for the longest time wasn’t considered.
But this “new unified” Germany never happened, the DDR fell apart and the BRD de-facto annexed these former GDR territories.
So instead of getting a new Germany representing lessons and values from both Germanys, all we got was the same Cold War BRD just with more territory.
While the DDR territories were made an example for the neoliberal politics that were to dominate not only Germanys future but that of most of the former “First World”, thanks Thatcher.
Neoliberal politics that are basically the antithesis to DDR economics.
And because by now everything DDR related has been vilified as being so bad as on par with the Nazis (many younger Germans can’t even keep the DDR and Nazi Germany apart), that means neoliberalism is considered the holy grail of what to do and allegedly the solution to all our problems.
In practice that means the East that used to have no problems with housing/jobs these days has massive problems with housing/jobs, as those are features of neoliberal politics.
It’s also why the BRD government hasn’t hit its goals to build affordable social housing in decades, it’s why they introduced Hartz 4 and literal 1€ jobs, making Germany home of the largest sector of precarious work in the EU.
All these are the results of neoliberal politics that allege that government spending is wrong, and the government offering services is wrong, it should all be privatised.
While the DDR is treated exactly as an example of why government spending is wrong, even tho the DDR survived longer on a modest credit of a few million euros than than modern states and big corporations survive in billions of bailouts and ZIRP money rain.
d_for_dumbas@reddit
"The NSDAP has its support mostly through its status as a protest party. If it were to end up in the government, it would lose it, and that's why it's an ironically self-defeating position for all the other parties to be united in refusing to form coalitions with it." - Schleicher, 1933
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
You want other parties to form coalitions with the explicitly neo-Nazi party?
markjohnstonmusic@reddit
Where did I say anything about what I want?
Prosthemadera@reddit
Just like Trump, eh? Worked out great! But AfD are too stupid to realize the consequences of their stupid vote.
Disgusting.
Insane.
Actual fascism. Indistinguishable from the Nazi Party.
I think this manifesto will hopefully be the end of the party, especially if they use it as a blueprint for national politics.
TemporalFugue2@reddit
Can we not call everything that is remotely right wing Nazism? They want to deport immigrants, not invade other countries to exterminate their minorities. I dont even support them but lets be real
Prosthemadera@reddit
Can we not use strawmen?
You don't know what fascism is. Fascism is more than the Holocaust, it's a political ideology. The Nazis were fascist before they even came to power.
Plus, you read my comment so you know that it wasn't just about deportations. Again:
This is what the Nazis said, too, and I'm not going to self-censor just because you don't like hearing it.
cambeiu@reddit
Hitler did not campaign in the early 30s for the invasion of Europe and the genocide of the Jews. That only came later. The current AfD platform is not that different from what the Nazis were preaching in the early 1930s.
Significant-Ad-7182@reddit
I fail to see how this party even gets votes despite their very blatant pro-Russia/Putin stance.
Do conservative voters in Germany think that Russia is somekind of utopia or has at least better living conditions then Germany? Are they that deluded?
I mean I can understand being racist and voting for a party that reflects one's own racism but I don't understand how they tolorate the obvious Russian connection.
Prosthemadera@reddit
I have no idea. Many do believe that Russia isn't the enemy, I don't know why they believe that, but they fell for the idea that Russia is a victim of NATO or whatever nonsense they've seen online. Or it comes from feeling nostalgia for the Cold War past.
BrotherEstapol@reddit
Nothing's says "paid by Putin" more than asking "for schools to teach more Russian."!!Â
Chipay@reddit
We can only hope that JD Vance, Benjamin Netanyahu and Vladimir Putin will provide their strongest, most vocal support for the AfD, as they have in Hungary.
LheelaSP@reddit
The people voting AfD would not care, they might even be happy about it. They love Trump and Putin.
Sno_Wolf@reddit
Somehow, I don't see the leader of Israel supporting a far-right German party...
BagsYourMail@reddit
Really, Diane?
Prosthemadera@reddit
Don't forget Rob Schneider!
Latter_Advice3714@reddit
Honestly a movie with Rob Schneider and kid rock trying to win an election for afd but messing up the whole time might be kinda funny.
AnotherCuppaTea@reddit
With Vance's meeting with the AFD's leaders being the most promising option.
NotAdoctor_but@reddit
people are surprised radical parties get a lot of votes
maybe if the current leadership wouldn't arrest peaceful protesters who protest a genocide, you wouldn't get people to vote like this, just sayin
Red_Lola_@reddit
The famous pro-palestine party, afd
NotAdoctor_but@reddit
all i'm saying is that authoritarian actions from the government will lead to increased popularity for extremism
IWanTPunCake@reddit
And when you are too lenient the extremist gather strength and dig your grave under you. What is your solution?
NotAdoctor_but@reddit
just being on the right side of history and doing the moral thing is enough, the majority of the population is comfortable supporting you; for example look at spain now, their PM is very popular and liked
what is happening in germany right now is not ok, their leadership fails
spacebatangeldragon8@reddit
The same conference forwarded a resolution on Christianity indistinguishable from Himmlerite rhetoric.
A lot of English-language media tends to treat the AfD as 'just' another Western European far-right anti-immigration party in the vein of Reform or PVV or even RN, when it's been clear for quite some time now that they - and especially their East German sections - are something a lot more atavistic and a lot more unpleasant.
Butane9000@reddit
So the article talked about what is generally in the "manifesto" but doesn't actually link to the Manifesto itself. Or reference as far as I read through any information directly from the manifesto. It's touting the usual support for immigration I'd expect from the BBC. Which always should be asked "why is it bad that Germans want a Germany that operates in their best interests not foreign nationals?"
It also references the party wanting to re-establish a now neutral to positive Russian relationship. This makes sense as far as energy is concerned with how the German energy sector has been gutted. As well as seemingly wanting to extricate themselves from the Ukraine war situation they seem to be in.
Of course this is something for a smaller subsection of Germany in a district/county style election but the federal one. With some of what has been put forward as untenable given the German federal control over some of the matters.
imunfair@reddit
I think from past discussions I've seen the "reasonable" part of it hinges on how you determine who's foreign. In this case there's been discussion of anyone who isn't genetically German to be disadvantaged or expelled even if the family has been there for several generations. That becomes more of a racism than an immigration issue.