I Bought A Mazda MX-5 And Now I Finally Understand Why Miata Is Always The Answer - The Autopian
Posted by FoMoCoNutjob@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 114 comments
costafilh0@reddit
Miata is always the answer, if you can't afford a Boxster.
ycnz@reddit
Weirdly, you have to go 981s before they get more expensive than S2000s here.
theaethelwulf@reddit
Plenty of people (myself included) cross shop those two cars and walk away with a Miata. Both great, but Miata has lighter weight, shorter gears and more fun.
ItsReallyS13Silvia@reddit
The ND was the first one that really caught my attention. Before that, I had absolutely no interest in the previous gens - and honestly, I still don’t. I don’t really get the appeal of those cars, especially since you can't pick them up for little more than a $500 shitbox anymore. But I think the ND is fantastic.
Zdos123@reddit
The ND is the first one which looked pretty but tbh they all drive the same, i actively went from an NC to an ND then back to an NC because i didn't like how fragile the ND was, 3rd gear was failing at only 65k miles and the camshaft was disintegrating into the engine with a full service history and no competition driving.
gaius49@reddit
They really don't. The transition to EPS and electronic throttles really diminished the responsiveness and tactility.
Zdos123@reddit
This stands in better favour of the NC though over an ND, the NC had a hydrualic rack but did have electronic throttle as apposed to the NDs electric throttle and EPS.
snsvsv@reddit
Agreed. There’s something about how the center console area comes out at you or something like that.
I was strongly considering an ND after owning multiple NA and NBs and the negative nostalgia of that feeling made me go in a different direction
cilantno@reddit
As an ND owner who did a lot of research: I’m assuming you bought an ND1 or 22/23 based on your transmission woes.
I have never heard about camshaft issues on the NDs.
Zdos123@reddit
It was an ND1 1.5 (hated the ND1 2.0l, was a dull nothing burger of an engine), which makes it even stranger as the ND1s 1.5s are not known to have gearbox issues, the whole car just gave me the impression of being sensitive, my NC i felt i could blat it around a track hour after hour and it would be just fine, the ND i never had the same confidence.
The camshaft issue was also unusual but none the less left me with large metal chunks in the oil and an engine which ticked like mad on cold starts, oil level never dropped below max in the 30k miles i had it.
umm_like_totes@reddit
I’ve owned a 2020 ND2 and a 2006 NC1, in that order. I love the NC1 just as much as my ND2. They’re equally great, but for different reasons.
FuseByte@reddit
If you have any interest in driving older sports cars (50s-70s), Miatas are one of the few options that tries to give you those dynamics in a modern package. Stuff like larger slip angles, using body roll to generate mechanical grip, etc. Also just way more feel and rawness in the older ones.
If you prefer your cars more sharp and modern feeling the ND is a really big step in that direction, I definitely think it drives a LOT better at 10/10s, but I also don't care about steering feel that much so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ pick your poison!
TrptJim@reddit
The earlier gens do feel more raw to drive than the ND, but the appeal should be very similar to what makes the ND unique. Some things are arguably better on the old generations. I still occasionally waffle on trading in my ND for an NC to get the nice hydraulic steering back and a real folding hard top... the extra space would be welcome too.
Astramael@reddit
The Miata is a fantastic drive. I really tried to rationalize my way into making it work last time I bought a car. But I need four doors and true back seats. Regrettable.
Driving a Miata also reveals how you can’t hide weight. You can do a lot to mask it, but it’s still there dampening the physics. The MX-5 feels so light and nimble and sharp, a great experience. Kind of a palate cleanser in some situations.
Been playing with Miatas since the NB including V8 swap, turbo, and SM. Truly sensational little beasties. Even the often maligned NC is actually pretty decent.
Corosz@reddit
Not only is it decent but it’s super good lol. Reliable, slightly bigger and therefore more daily-able than an na/b/d, and you don’t pay the flippy headlight tax that you pay for with an NA.
Captain_Alaska@reddit
The big thing with the NC is it’s a new chassis, unlike the NB, so it actually brings about 20 years worth of chassis and suspension improvements to the car in one go. Way more rigid, way less brake dive, acceleration squat, etc.
They are like 90% of what an ND is and there are plenty of upgrade paths for them, they even fit more rubber underneath than any other gen.
They’re not even any heavier, late model NBs are basically the same as the NC. Fun fact, the Mazdaspeed Miata is heavier and slower than a stock 2006 NC.
likesweed@reddit
I own an nb2, because I like old shit, and it’s super easy to work on, but I always tell people the nc is actually a better car.
And yeah, people for some reason seem to assume the nb weighs the same ~2000lbs or so that an early na with no airbags and a 1.6 does. Its an extra 600lbs on the nb2 lol. My miata weighs more than my 7g celica
celica_GT@reddit
That's wild lol Aren't our celicas around 2400-2500?
How you liking your nb2? I'm torn between that, an nc, and ND. You ever road trip in it?
likesweed@reddit
Yeah the gts is around 2500 and the gt is about 75-100 lbs less
I love the nb2, I’ve got a 2002 special edition w/ 6 speed and lsd, and it’s gotta be my personal favorite spec of miata other than a mazdaspeed. I have taken it on a couple 1000mi round trips, and it’s a convertible so I gotta wear earplugs to avoid the wind noise headache but otherwise it’s pretty great all things considered. I’ve got back pain and the nb let’s me lean the seat back far enough that I don’t get too bothered on long drives. Nc didn’t have as much ability to gangsta lean so it’s kinda a no go for me.
As far as driving goes the nb is great if you want a high engagement old school feeling car that’s just modern enough to not suck to daily. Nc feels more polished, and is faster
celica_GT@reddit
I got some Loops so I'm good on plugs, thanks! The nb2 has always had a special place in my heart and my test drives have all been great. Just couldn't pull the trigger.. I need to lol. It's such a gorgeous car. Kinda surprised you can lean further in the NB considering the nc is bigger!
likesweed@reddit
It’s kinda weird, the na has more room inside than the nb as well. Nc probably has the most headroom if your tall tho
Raveen396@reddit
I think this really depends on body proportion, but I found my ND had way more room than the NB. Agree that the NC was the roomiest.
a_sonUnique@reddit
They accelerate?
half_regard@reddit
lol
italia06823834@reddit
The NC, unlike the previous gens, is a front mid-engine layout too. And in addition to the chassis improvments, you get a huge improvement in materials (way more aluminum components) and to the drivetrain as well is a huge upgrade. The NC, especially the NC2, is a highly underrated car.
louiekr@reddit
I’ve had a na for the past 8 years and had another one back in high school. Probably half of the years of ownership with those cars they were daily driven. Amazing cars but man after getting a real commuter a few years back I can’t daily an old roadster again. I’ve been seriously considering selling my na and Corolla and buying an nc so I can finally daily a modern car with it also being a Miata.
Thee_Sinner@reddit
Ive had the opposite experience lol Been dailying my NB for like 7 years now, but started getting rod knock a couple months ago and have had to borrow a regular commuter when I need to get to out of town appointments. It is SOO BORING omg. I can not wait to get back in my car. Even just on the highway with the cruise on is actually enjoyable in my car.
ItsGizzman@reddit
I am so happy with my current two car solution
aprtur@reddit
That's the debate for me currently, as I'm 14 years in with my RX - after really enjoying the ND when I've experienced it, I'm just trying to make the dollars and cents work to fit one in with my GRC. I need to own at least one roadster before I die.
Astramael@reddit
Take a can opener to your GRC. Solved!
aprtur@reddit
Oof, that pains me to think about....lol.
With the ND, it's tricky - I'd want a soft top, but live in an apartment, so I'm wary of it getting damaged, and I'd want the Recaros, so I'm stuck getting the expensive BBR package...and at that point, there's little cost separating the soft top Club BBR from an RF Club (BBR standard), and were at the $40,000 price point...ouch.
imped4now@reddit
Do it. ND2 RF BBR Club. Trust me here.
aprtur@reddit
Paying off the GRC comes first, but that should be in about a year or so. Probably will start shopping then, as long as nothing crazy happens with ND3s in the meantime. If something comes on the horizon, maybe I'll hasten that move.
thevictor390@reddit
Oh yeah, I have my older, smaller fun car. And then I have my Miata.
imped4now@reddit
Same.
Astramael@reddit
As you should be! Seems absolutely excellent.
autobauss@reddit
Better than Cayman?
Astramael@reddit
It’s different than Cayman.
emp_mei_is_bae@reddit
NC gets hate but it’s my fav
AcrobaticButterfly@reddit
The worst Miata is still a Miata
YouAreMentalM8@reddit
Personally that's the NB for me. Loses quite a bit of the charm of the NB, but lacks any of the advantage of the NC. The MazdaSpeed one is charming in its own way, but the NC2/3 is a better sports car.
UnnamedStaplesDrone@reddit
It ain’t the worst Miata. It’s the roomiest and has the best steering feel imo.
Sjetware@reddit
I have a 2.5 swapped nc, and I picked an NC over an ND due to the upgrade potential over time. Plus, the NC still has hydraulic steering...
UnnamedStaplesDrone@reddit
Yep. Shit I miss hydraulic steering. Sometimes I feel like even the most run of the mill hydraulic steering car told me more thru the wheel than most epas racks. I remember my 3700 lb 300D Turbo had amazing steering feel. Even my 2000 accord, which didn’t have ABS, but I could tell if things were gonna get hairy by what the steering was telling me
NetworkStatic@reddit
I got an F87 M2 thinking the lack of steering feel wouldn't bother me because of how great the car was otherwise. I was wrong. Start getting into a groove on track or in the mountains and you cant trust it to push quite as hard because of that missing info.
gaius49@reddit
Absolutely!
I would strongly suggest trying a well sorted manual steering sports car at some point. Its a revelation.
UnnamedStaplesDrone@reddit
My mustang gt after modding the crap out of the suspension has GREAT weighting and you can feel the road surface ok but you still are not gonna get anything out of what is going on up there. One of the problems is modern tires have such high thresholds for grip anyway you need to be doing crazy shit to get any sensation out of em
NetworkStatic@reddit
Definitely agreed on the tires part. When I went from Pilot Sport 4S tires to Cup2s the grip was such a move forward that I could no longer push so far on the street because its just gonna keep hanging on until it let's go. I got the Cup2 connect for the Nurburgring and Spa but am thinking to get something less sticky so the car moves around a little bit before it reaches the point of letting go. I dont have enough practice to tell where that point is on something as sticky as Cup2 and I know the window is smaller for the FAFO on stickier tires. Car guy problems I guess
UnnamedStaplesDrone@reddit
yeah per the on board accelerometer on the stang, with 275s all around PS4S, you can easily hit 1.06G and i still can't hear a squeal out of em.
Maximilianne@reddit
well consider that the NC was based on the RX8 which while released in 03' so the chassis safety engineer was done in the 90s, and compared to modern cars, the 90s ain't great, and there are plenty of dumb influencers driving big heavy BMWs on the twisty roads who don't how to brake.....
StanknBeans@reddit
Bro touched like 6 topics all in the same sentence
SwiftCEO@reddit
Punctuation? Never met the guy!
regardballs@reddit
NC is the best gen right now. cheaper than a mint NB/Na. forged internals from the factory (nc2+) 5x114 wheels. can fit meaty tires under the stock wheel wells. 2.5 swap is $500 and can get 200whp with headers cams and a tune.
Low-Umpire236@reddit
Get a second car.
Astramael@reddit
I wish, no space to park it. The garage is only so big.
P10_WRC@reddit
A lot of Japanese cars were super light weight. I’ve owned a few Infiniti g20s. They are light, great suspension, sr20 na motors and four doors with a manual and lsd from the factory. Super underrated cars. They weigh under 2800 pounds fully loaded
Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy@reddit
Hiding the weight angle is so true you just can’t cheat physics. I’d DD a Miata if there weren’t 1 millions F150s on the roads around me.
Xyrexenex@reddit
ND2 has been my daily since I bought it in 2020, if anyone has any high mileage questions AMA.
SkiVette69@reddit
What has broken/worn? I’m talking even low impact stuff like scuffed headliner, non retracting seatbelt, flattened bolster?
Xyrexenex@reddit
The interior developed an expected level of rattles, really only bad in cold weather. The paint chips like a motherfucker so definitely invest in PPF and avoid my mistake if you plan on driving it in the winter.
Infotainment was a pos day one and continues to suck, my only real complaint about the car.
Only mechanical failure within warranty was cracked weld on ac line near the compressor which is somewhat common for that year. Seat heaters, RF top, powertrain have thus far been fine. I use my RF a lot and it hasn't ever leaked, I'm in the PNW so the car lives in the rain.
Weird gremlin issue that hasn't been a problem but I'm putting off troubleshooting is sometimes the ABS light comes on during a normal right turn. I suspect that's a wheel speed sensor error but the car is my commuter so I'm putting it off.
Annoying issue that pops up every now and again is the AC drain tube gets clogged and leaks into the passenger footwell, its about 8 bolts to access it to blow it out with compressed air but I have to do it once a year. At one point it was a complaint but it just became a quirk I take care of when I do all the other annual maintenance.
Logistics-wise, in 6 years of ownership I've spent about $800 on uhaul rentals when I need a truck for a day; or about one month's payment on a new F150 Lariant.
post_break@reddit
Look into the aliexpress touch screen replacement. I did it on my ND2 and it was worth every penny. Wireless carplay, and it piggy backs on the OEM so I can access all the OEM stuff from the same screen. It wasn't cheap but unless you want to trade in for a new one with a touch screen it's the best thing ever.
kobbled@reddit
how much effort was it to do the swap?
post_break@reddit
5/10 you have to get under the dash to get access to some of the connectors, expect to take 4 hours start to finish. It wasn't too bad to be honest. There are write ups on the miata forums.
BudgetHelper@reddit
This is a great way to quantify the lifestyle decision of roadster life
r00000000@reddit
I also had a 2020 RF that I drove for 3 yrs, 50k kilometers as a daily, +35k km from the last owner before I traded it in.
The Soul Red paint is abysmally bad, I had it parked in a tight garage and there were many minor clearcoat scratches just from me brushing up against it, almost looked like it was in a sideswipe collision just shallower and only on the clearcoat.
Infotainment is really bad like the other guy said, Android Auto is even laggy when using the touchscreen, I think there must be some kind of latency on the screen when you press. It also crashes sometimes, not often but common enough to be consistently annoying.
The seats are very low quality, the interior looks amazing but the seats crease and imprint with your buttprint too easily IMO. There's also the body panel colour trim piece on the door that's been building up some minor scratches.
I've had the non-retracting seatbelt issue too, sometimes it fixes itself, but it was getting more common when I traded it in.
Everything else was fine, did scheduled maintenance every 8k kms, about $150-250 at the dealership.
Not_Daijoubu@reddit
The paint is the bane of my existence. Soul Red is lovely but probably would scratch even with talcum powder. I still remember looking at a 2008 Yaris for it's paint defects prior to buying my Miata and I think my Miata at 34.5k miles now has as much front paint chips as that 90k mile Yaris. Still very happy with everything else.
Financial_Hope4048@reddit
How many miles?
Xyrexenex@reddit
85k
NoctD@reddit
Have never been a roadster/convertible enthusiast and the RF waters down the Miata's lightweight experience so unfortunately a Miata has never truly been in my car bucket list. As is I hardly even drive with windows rolled down, maybe less than 1% of my driving ever.
gimpwiz@reddit
How much does your car weigh? I noticed that you're looking for a proper lightweight experience but you didn't choose a car lighter than the miata?
NoctD@reddit
Never said I was looking for a lightweight experience but the RF had me thinking for a hot moment about trying out what all the hype was in Miata land. Curious if you have any recommendations of new lightweight cars to look at that has a roof and manual transmission, not 20+ year old tin cans.
The Emira V6 weights more than my GTS4.0, the Alpine A110 is not in the US and soon losing its ICE powertrain, the BRZ/GR86 are heavy enough their power/weight ratio makes them a worse choice (maybe if Toyota ups the game with a GR Turbo 4 next gen?).
But yes I can see why Miata is always the answer for some flks - there's really nothing in the market today to compete with it!
gimpwiz@reddit
lol yes, the ND Miata RF.
Give it a try instead of deciding based on vibes that it's compromised.
NoctD@reddit
Yup - just waiting for the NE model to come out at this point and I'll go try it out. Everyone that's driven an ND RF and non-RF says to get the non-RF though so I'll have to try both versions.
gimpwiz@reddit
I will be the voice of opposition then, the RF is like a hundred pounds heavier and it's heavier up top, yeah, but it's still perfectly great on track, in canyons, and daily driving. If you drive them back to back on track you may feel the difference, otherwise you'll be perfectly happy with it if a hardtop is your requirement.
Oh and the convertible requires a roll bar on most tracks, which adds back a non insignificant part of that 100lb difference (~25%), also up top. Most tracks don't require the RF to get anything changed to it, as long as you pass the broomstick test you're good to go.
RhymeGrime@reddit
If you're looking for how to look like a doofus In a clown car, sure miata is the answer.
craichead@reddit
I've always wanted a Miata. Unfortunately I just don't fit in them. (Yes, I know, seat brackets yada yada). I ended up with a Mini, which ironically has so much more space.
Gwolf4@reddit
There is not ironic in that. Mini McPherson struts, therefore less space used in front of the car so feet area is not cramped. Fwd so no space used for driveshaft funnel and also engine is traverse so less space for engine bay used.
newcarguy2019@reddit
Eh, glad I tried it but it was not the answer for me.
birdseye-maple@reddit
Cool cars but I'm a bit tired of hearing the same line. I personally will never find the engine interesting enough to own, but I respect what they are.
imped4now@reddit
A Borla catback takes care of that.
birdseye-maple@reddit
It does not
Astramael@reddit
I do agree that the corporate engine is the least exciting part of the experience. If it had something a bit crazier that would be super cool. It would probably make the vehicle less accessible though (more expensive).
birdseye-maple@reddit
Swap one of those NA Volvo 5cylinders and it might be a different story while keeping with that low HP ethos. I saw a guy who did a 5cyl swap but it was turbos, a bit of a bummer for sound.
It is interesting how defensive people are about the Miata, I can praise it and say I respect it but stating the obvious about the engine always gets mass downvotes.
TrptJim@reddit
Those engines don't look as rev-happy as the current motor. While the engine note isn't the best, the Skyactive-G does rev really nicely all the way to 7500rpm and matches the chassis pretty well.
birdseye-maple@reddit
Guess I'm just too picky about engine note. Looking at Boxsters to replace my SLK55, the engine note is just on another level. I tried to consider the Miata but I just can't do the engine.
You can find a base 2005-ish boxster in the low 20s w/ a manual, 245hp with a similar ethos. Maybe I'm just used to German maintenance, I know others don't want to deal with that part.
Tw0Rails@reddit
It's not expensive to swap the exhaust if it's just sound.
birdseye-maple@reddit
Still doesn't do it for me, I've heard every exhaust iteration of the Miata roaming my neighborhood (I live on a road that leads to a backroad).
FuseByte@reddit
One of the really nice things about the ND is Mazda's support for motorsports activities. The car handles a lot a abuse with stock parts/fluids, and Mazda gives discounts on their motorsports catalogue if you provide proof you attend track days etc.
It's not the best performance value as a street car or the most theater, but being really easy to keep going and well supported lets it tackle its dual niche of everyday convertible + track rat car pretty well.
birdseye-maple@reddit
Yeah that's part of why I said I respect it, but hey the cult of Miata never stops.
Iridium-Silver@reddit
I will second your opinion about engine note, which is why I have both of my German cars in addition to my Miata. The engine does have some character, but the noise it makes is not particularly special.
YouAreMentalM8@reddit
NC2/3 is probably the best Miata for an exciting engine. Factory fuel cutoff of 7500 RPM, good response in the upper band. Add aftermarket cams + ITBs and hit 8k / 225 naturally aspirated horsepower.
After-Tomorrow3236@reddit
I rented an MX-5 ND2 manual for a day, and it left me laughing one moment and almost crying the next.
That long-lost feeling has finally returned. This is what a real car should feel like.
Modern cars, especially electric vehicles, are packed with too many electronic aids and screens. They’ve completely lost the soul and character that a proper sports car should have. Driving them now feels like using just another ordinary appliance — tasteless and soulless.
Mazda’s MX-5 is one of the few cars that still stubbornly preserves the pure essence of driving. In today’s world, that is incredibly rare and precious.
If I could, I would definitely buy one.
Quaiche@reddit
Meh.
Too small and front engine plus boring exhaust notes.
I’ll keep driving my Alpine that weights as much as the mx-5 while being mid engine.
withsexyresults@reddit
Author wrote he’s in Midwest with few corners, is that still the answer? Id imagine he’d better off with just more power
strongmanass@reddit
Well the author likes what he likes. The Miata's lack of power means you use more of the rev range and gearbox than in most other cars, which is its own reward for people.
But I think it's a terrible steady-state cruiser. It's just buzzy and noisy and doesn't feel planted. This really stood out to me:
idk how the author concluded that because the only predictability I remember is wild oversteer at any speed in any condition whether you wanted it or not. And it gets unsettled by moderate winds or trucks going past.
TrptJim@reddit
An alignment can feel like a miracle on even street tires. Stock OEM alignment on the ND is kinda bad.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
I believe she owns an MGF (or at least I remember some articles on the site from her about fixing one up) so the ND is probably solid as a rock by comparison. As someone who loves the look of pre-SAIC MGs, I would not want to be in one where there's any risk of crashing.
gimpwiz@reddit
On what tires? I have put some hard miles on one, I agree it's highly predictable, great to toss around.
Driven it on highways plenty, no issues with semi trucks. Other than being invisible to them.
withsexyresults@reddit
With you on being able to row gears more but without corners, you’re missing out on like 50% of that makes Miata’s great which is how quick/nimble a lightweight car changes directions
Yea def not a gt car
r00000000@reddit
I live somewhere with no roads suited for the Miata and it's still good as a cheap, cool looking, reliable convertible cruiser IMO but if you have the money for more, a Corvette or the European cars definitely outclass it in these areas.
B-Sheppard@reddit
Love a Miata!
gaius49@reddit
I'd go NA8 > NB > NA6 > NC > ND, but I put >100,000 miles on a heavily modded NA8.
oskipoo@reddit
It’s not the answer if you can’t fit in it
Negative_Acadia6554@reddit
Picked up my ND during the chaos of Covid and it genuinely pulled me out of a slump. There’s something about wringing it out on a normal drive that just hits right every time. It’s pure, playful, and always feels alive without needing to break every speed limit.
Meanwhile, my 991 Turbo is an absolute monster, but it only really wakes up when you’re driving like you’ve got something to prove or you’re on a track. Really curious to see where they take the next gen
turningsteel@reddit
Did you get it painted or was that some limited edition color? Looks awesome.
gimpwiz@reddit
That's not a stock color, which usually means a wrap.
unsaltedbutter@reddit
Have you put an aftermarket exhaust on it yet? Goodwin Racing SuperStreet highly recommended!
Marshmallow_@reddit
Sweet color
RequirementLeading12@reddit
This sub would cease to exist if Toyota, Subaru, and Mazda went under.
Qwaaaarty@reddit
Man I can't help but believe that the $5k extra (guess) for an ND2 is 100% worth it, having owned one that engine is great!
hardigree@reddit
I would just like to point out that since Mercedes wrote this I've seen like two pictures of the Miata in Slack and 400 photos of her driving the CrossCabriolet. If you want to know what the true daily-driving sports car is, it's a lifted Nissan Murano CrossCab on Mustang tri-bars.
emeraldarcana@reddit
Hey I got one of these. I got the first one that came into my dealership that wasn’t red (as I didn’t preorder). Mine’s even the white-silver as in the article (there is a pure white one, too).
I was driving back from Canada when I got the call that they had one in.
The first year was pretty awesome. I got a lot of looks from people. Tons of questions about it, lots of chatter from interested passerbys.
I still have it. I do think about every once in a while if I want a different car, but if I did, it would definitely need to be a convertible, at least as soft (because soft suspension is fun since I don’t drive that fast), and look as cool. It’s still pretty much stock though, I don’t really feel like I’m much of a mods person, but as it gets older maybe I should consider something. I don’t really even know where to start with them though since I really do like the car as-is.
MillerSavage153@reddit
/whatcarshouldibuy all have just had wet dreams because of this article
5GCovidInjection@reddit
The first gen Miatas are shockingly reliable. I see them with so many miles still being driven daily, on track, and on long road trips.