Avoiding debt and paying as I go.
Posted by AmazingProperty3048@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 49 comments
Only reason I’m typing this is I’m wondering if anyone else is out there in my shoes. I’m 20 I graduated hs in 2024. Since I was 17 years old I worked at Walmart to pay for all my flying and for my private pilot cert. Then I took a year and a half and worked a job in a warehouse to save up and pay for my instrument rating in cash as well. Since then I moved out of my parents house and find myself working an auto parts delivery job saving up to time build towards commercial.
I always feel behind but taking a nice look at the state of everything right now I guess the best way to look at it is I’d rather be chilling waiting for a cfi job with little to no debt rather then be waiting for a cfi job with 100k fresh out of ATP or other schools. I don’t know much but I guess this is my path and I’ll see if it works or not. Seems like pacing myself and being slower but debt free seems better while waiting I guess to see what happens to the state of the industry.
lzaacus@reddit
I paid for my training out of pocket, and I couldn’t consider myself to be luckier now. You see a lot of frustration and desperation in the sub about the state of hiring in the industry, and the hiring market is rough, but without the crushing weight of a huge high interest loan hanging over me it doesn’t feel as desperate to wait around in my current situation. My needs are met, and I can wait for the big job when I finally get the call.
Curious-Young919@reddit
What’s your experience with the hiring market right now? How long did it take to do all your training out of pocket?
lzaacus@reddit
Took me 18 months out of pocket to go 0-CFII, I saved enough to do it in one go. I’m now well past 1500TT with >250 multi time. I have a clean record with no Checkride failures. Crickets from every place I’ve ever applied to, not even so much as a TBNT. Currently instructing still.
Curious-Young919@reddit
Impressive! That seems really fast compared to others I’ve heard. Were you training full time?
In your opinion what does the future of hiring look like? Just trying to get as many perspectives as I can.
lzaacus@reddit
I was usually training 3 days a week, but sometimes up to 5 when the training demanded it.
I’m not really experienced enough in the industry to comment on the future of hiring. I haven’t experienced the years of trends to predict where this is going. I’m sure it’ll stay tough. The one thing I am sure of, is that the dream sold by most schools where you take out a huge high interest loan and it won’t matter because you’ll be a millionaire in 5 years is a scam.
Curious-Young919@reddit
Gotcha. Really appreciate the comments. I am in the early stages so trying to weigh all my options. Definitely not taking out a loan but it is still incredibly daunting. I’m only 24 so even if it takes a decade to be in a good position I’d be stoked. I’m sure you love to hear that yet another person is considering aviation in an already saturated market. Best of luck to you.
NYPuppers@reddit
Good for you man. Keep plugging away. You're doing it the right way by saving up in advance, rather than running out of cash mid-lessons.
theshawnch@reddit
The recent 2025 airmen statistics show that we are producing 3 times more commercial pilots than we have spots for in the airlines. You are very wise trying to do this without a 100k loan hanging over your head in a very saturated market.
Jealous_Fail6071@reddit
That math is flawed though. It doesn't account for foreign students of which there are a large number of in the US. It also doesn't account for the myriad of other "destination" careers for pilots. Net Jets is hiring almost as many pilots as the majors every year.
theshawnch@reddit
Except net jets and many other destinations still require ATP so it’s still part of the math.
This video examines the data in great unbiased detail. We are producing pilots at a totally unsustainable rate.
320sim@reddit
This is a bit misleading as not everyone who gets a commercial is aiming for ATP but yeah
theshawnch@reddit
Yes, at the same time not every ATP produced is from an airline hire. I think the math somewhat evens out, but we have to do some estimation.
Physical-Program-509@reddit
I agree
There are way to many people dismissing the production numbers, splitting hairs, making unfalsifiable claims. It smells a lot like copium
AmazingProperty3048@reddit (OP)
That was my thinking it’s my dream to get paid to fly and I’ll always chase that but it makes life a lot easier being able to change course career wise if something where to happen with no debt or very little debt.
JSTootell@reddit
I decided it would be stupid to quit my day (blue collar) job to try and make it full time flying in my 40's. The hype at the time was "pilot shortage", but in reality the shortage was long gone already, so I'm glad I decided to pay as I go and play the long game.
I'll either make it some day, or have fun flying as a hobby, lighting money on fire. But I won't be in debt.
Bythion@reddit
You are young, you've got plenty of time. You're doing it the right way.
AmazingProperty3048@reddit (OP)
Thanks man I appreciate hearing something like this
canuck791@reddit
I don't agree with the poster above you.
Even 2 years earlier is a potential $800k-1 million lost in pay at the end of your career for getting there sooner. Not factoring inflation and future pay raises.
Physical-Program-509@reddit
Nice flairs,
Yeah that math checks out if you survive to a major airline
It’s dosent always checkout that if you get delayed, have problems, not incredibly lucky, don’t factor in the time value of money or opportunity cost etc
MyPilotInterview@reddit
I would recommend joining EAA, gliding clubs, etc and working at a ramp. More opportunities will come with a good networks - pilots are a lovely bunch of people who are typically willing to help.
cdel41234@reddit
I saved for 2 years before beginning my training and worked during the 20 months I trained. It was a huge sacrifice but I’m so glad I did it this way. There’s instructors at my school that have 100k+ in loans and make less than 2k a month. You’re doing it the right way, trust me. You’ll save yourself the headache in the future
canuck791@reddit
Depends on your priority and doing the calculations on if the debt is worth getting your seniority number 2-3 years earlier (ps, it probably is worth it).
bill-of-rights@reddit
Indeed, do the math. It might make sense to borrow to get a higher salary quicker.
canuck791@reddit
The smartest thing is to probably do it as a mix. As much paid as you can and loan the rest, and if possible do it privatley vs an integrated (and price over inflated) program like ATP.
Yes you won't have a degree but honestly that stuff comes and goes and if you really want to just get a degree on the side while you start flying for a career. It's not hard to do if you keep at it.
FlushableWipes12@reddit
I’m pretty much in the same situation. I saved up and got my ppl over the summer, now have been stagnant trying to save money, not really flying, but would rather take it slow and enjoy the ride than have crippling debt and no job.
B100West@reddit
If you qualify
bill-of-rights@reddit
All very good suggestions.
canuck791@reddit
Remember this is a forum with a lot of private pilots and their opinions if you're trying to do this as a career are irrelevant.
Reputation_Many@reddit
Pay as you go is the way. Side projects, mowing yards, selling legos Do anything you can to stay debt free. It will make life so much greater and you won’t be stressed as much as everyone else.
I’ve got a friend who paid for atp by selling Legos. He’d go to goodwill type stores but all the legos sort them and then sell them on eBay and other marketplaces.
Another friend who mowed yards in his neighborhood and made $38k over the summer. Which most of it was used towards flying.
Have another friend who paid for flying with uber/lyft.
I will say I think it’s easiest to try to fly occasionally so you don’t loose progress and then bulk fly when you’re close to checkride.
Good luck.
320sim@reddit
38k mowing lawns over a few months? Either your friend was mowing 30 lawns per day or was ripping people off
Reputation_Many@reddit
That math really is not hard to believe.
For our areas larger yards around 1 to 1.5 acres, charging $50 per cut twice a week is only $100 a week. Over a 24-week mowing season, that is $2,400 per house. At 16 houses, that is $38,400, and that is before adding any extra work like edging, weed eating, trimming, or cleanup.
My own yard guy charges me $125 a week now for a half-acre lot, and that includes two cuts a week plus edging and weed eating. In late fall and winter he still charges $100 per visit, even if he only comes once or twice a month. He has 10 houses just in my neighborhood, not counting anywhere else he works.
So no, someone does not need to be mowing 30 lawns a day or ripping people off to make $38k in a season. That is completely doable with a decent client base, especially when most people are willing to pay a premium because they do not want to do the work themselves.
schminkles@reddit
If you are going to go into debt for anything it should be for buying an airplane to build time in, otherwise you are definitely doing it right
Swimming-Ad2568@reddit
You’re doing it the right way. Don’t feel like you’re getting “behind”, you’re not even old enough for an ATP. So keep doing what you’re doing. This is not the industry you take loan for. You’ll thank yourself when you have your ratings debt free and the bozos next to you are in debt up to their ears with no airline job to pay it off.
PerspectiveLivid1060@reddit
Yuuuup
Big-Lead5279@reddit
Your doing it the same way i did it, i was a big saver and worked a job all throughout my training ($16/hr) im 20 class of 2024 and just this month got my cfii DEBT FREE. No matter what people tell you if you manage your money correctly it is possible. I never had any help other than every checkride my grandparents would give me $100 for good luck. I started training fall of 2024 and just did part 61 with good instructors along the way. Time split with people to save money and study study study and you’ll be alright
redditburner_5000@reddit
Keep doing what you're doing. It's the right path. When you end up getting through CFI, you won't be saddled with crazy debt and will have the breathing room to make moves the debt-ridden can't.
BlueBird556@reddit
You’re ahead of me but my goal is the same. I did get into debt which is my current goal, then I will resume getting my ppl in the fall.
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
I think you're doing it right. Good job.
jakep623@reddit
I became an engineer to afford flying. I also am paying as I go which is painful at times but I think given the current outlook on hiring, certificate data which was just released, and the cyclical nature of this industry - I think we are doing it right.
Pick your poison, time or debt.
jkoz226@reddit
Studying engineering as a fallback. Man it freaking sucks
jakep623@reddit
I think engineering provides a good foundation for understanding technical concepts, being able to apply my study skills and understanding of physics has been useful in my training. Engineering is a lot of fun! Not compared to flying though...
jkoz226@reddit
Certainly! I completely agree, beyond directly the field, the skills you build are priceless. But man is it freaking hard finding the motivation, especially when your goal is not to use it 😂
ltcterry@reddit
Yes, you have the right view of things.
This is going to be a tough time for finding flying jobs, but the strengths that let you get where you are will continue to help you. And you'll never be servicing debt to the tune of $1,500-2000/month.
You can be proud of where you are!
Mr-Plop@reddit
I've paid everything out of pocket. I waited/bartender-ed since 2017 and got my cfi ratings in 2024 for one reason or another. Some weeks are straight up horrible, like this one. The only saving grace is that unlike 90% of my coworkers, I don't have $1000/month in loans. I'm basically debt free driving a 12 year old car.
AmazingProperty3048@reddit (OP)
Congrats dude you earned it. I do get down on myself because I mean all of us want the career bad so sitting next to some dude telling me he is a millionaire but working a job at 19 an hour to pay the bills makes me lose my mind. I’m laughing at the dudes with 1000 dollars in car loans that’s so real. My 2009 Mazda has yet to let me down since I was 16. It’s hit two deer and a raccoon. Thing still gets me to where I wanna go.
BrtFrkwr@reddit
Good luck to you. I hope you attain your dream.
AmazingProperty3048@reddit (OP)
I look as it as a positive as long as I can get my foot in the door as being a cfi in my lifetime yeah it’s my dream to get paid to fly anyways and well I know I’ll get there. I don’t quit.
DatBeigeBoy@reddit
Do it. It’ll take much more time, but the lack of debt will be amazing. I paid as I went, and not having a $2000/month bill every month is really nice. Like I said, depending on how much you make, it’ll take longer but it will be well worth it. I know a CA who had a rough upbringing, decided to follow his love for aviation, moved into his parents with his young son to save while he did college and did flight training. It paid off ten fold.
Just weigh the options, nothing in our industry is guaranteed. If you have to take a loan out, it’s not the end of the world, just do small amounts, not these $100k, high APR loans. You got this, my dude. Just keep in mind commercial is one of the more expensive ones.
If you can afford to, an idea is to try and find a job at a flight school the pays decent. During my instrument, I worked at the flight school and got a solid discount of flight training and instructor rates. Rootin’ for you.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Only reason I’m typing this is I’m wondering if anyone else is out there in my shoes. I’m 20 I graduated hs in 2024. Since I was 17 years old I worked at Walmart to pay for all my flying and for my private pilot cert. Then I took a year and a half and worked a job in a warehouse to save up and pay for my instrument rating in cash as well. Since then I moved out of my parents house and find myself working an auto parts delivery job saving up to time build towards commercial.
I always feel behind but taking a nice look at the state of everything right now I guess the best way to look at it is I’d rather be chilling waiting for a cfi job with little to no debt rather then be waiting for a cfi job with 100k fresh out of ATP or other schools. I don’t know much but I guess this is my path and I’ll see if it works or not. Seems like pacing myself and being slower but debt free seems better while waiting I guess to see what happens to the state of the industry.
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