I quit CTO position to build a new stack for the web
Posted by der_struct@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 13 comments
This is not "I vibe-coded it in a week" story, but actually quite the opposite.
I started around 2014 as php-monkey and by 2024 was a head of R&D (officially CTO) and a minor shareholder of small-to-medium (around 300 employees) international company .
I never stopped writing code (php/js->java->kotlin->js/ts->rust->go), I always was deeply evolved in business and system analytics, system architecture, and wrote a few cores for different systems we shipped (from manufacturing automation software to show drone firmware). I also lead some hardware developments (but it's not my thing, to be honest).
And web dev... was always there with me, in control panels, manufacturing operator UIs and even in our custom app-oriented ERP.
I worked a lot, I didn't need any vacations and I am not interested in almost anything else in life as long as I am technically challenged.
Two years ago something shifted in our company (strategical change, that fast forward 2 years, lead to failure, - ditch R&D and focus on production). I couldn't take it. Board offered me top-level position in electronics manufacturing (SMT/THT/Boxbuild). I couldn't. I did not learn so much and failed so much and build so much to throw it all away. Even if i could, almost nothing will be left of me.
So I quit. But not empty handed. I head idea and unique experience.
Though out my career I did almost the same thing 4 times - stateful server-driven UI core + business process engine/platform. All of them specialized tools, but each new one got better and closer to the general purpose framework.
Stateful server-driven architecture (app runs on server, client is human input/output) makes building and maintaining complex user/business flows much simpler (no client-side code, no API layer to protect/maintain). For business-process automation there is no better choice.
This can get too technical or too promotional quickly. I will try my best to cut the crap.
I build Go-based stack (templates+lsp, framework+runtime) for server-driven reactive web-applications. It took me 1 year and 9 month. I rewrote the framework 6 or 7 times until every part is coherent, every decision feels right or is a reasonable compromise. And everything I learned about programming and design for my whole career is in there.
I can't be objective towards my own creation. But I have enough judgement to conclude, that the result is sensible and developer experience is above average in web dev.
You may say, it was the most stupid decision in my life. I would say, I had no other choice, I am here to do one thing.
I know that from technical perspective it's strong and it will find it's audience eventually. But here is the catch - I have a family and we need something to eat.
I need your advice on monetization strategies.
My current one (inspired by QT), dual license: AGPL + cheap commercial lifetime license for proprietary usage. My target audience is SaaS, business systems, customer portals, admin panels, internal tools. But I understand that such licensing hurts adoption rate.
Also, by accident, this stack is a good fit for AI agents (no frontend/backend drift, lower security risks (no public API layer)). And It could be a effective promotion strategy, if i prepare high quality LLM docs and showcase. Or even... rebrand as AI framework 🤮
Idea of paid components, materials do not resonate with me much and I suspect now devs just prefer LLM generation, but I could be wrong.
https://doors.dev/ - site
https://github.com/doors-dev/doors - repo
https://github.com/doors-dev/gox - templates + lsp (MIT)
I also would love to answer questions or read any feedback.
Thanks for reading.
Wide_Obligation4055@reddit
Your only hope is to entirely open source it. If it has some unique features it might gather a small community around it, so that it won't die as soon as you realize, this is going to be a really long haul, so you need to get a job again.
I met the guy who invented Flask at a Django conference in 2011 in Amsterdam. He was spending all his time promoting it, building a community, evangelizing micro frameworks. I thought he had no chance, but turns out I was wrong, cloud micro services took off and so did Flask.
There are 100s of millions of Flask installations the world. It's inventor still needs a proper job to make a living, head of engineering at Sentry.
But possibly you might be more successful than he was at making a living out of creating your own.framework 😀 Problem is it's not 2011 any more, but if your framework were truly the best designed to be written by agentic coders, then.maybe. Problem.is it's Python and JavaScript that have the biggest training data sets in all LLMs. So sadly as a fellow Go ( and Python, Rust etc) programmer, it's not looking good
der_struct@reddit (OP)
Thanks kind stranger. Probably you are right. I will try agentic coders promotion route and if it fails, move on on trying monetize it.
Wide_Obligation4055@reddit
Yeah sadly it's really hard to even give away, brilliantly written software. Add in Agentic generated code making code literally worthless, rather than free (libre) as open source is. Is the final nail in the coffin.
der_struct@reddit (OP)
It's hard for me to accept the idea that there is no place for precisely written software anymore. Especially at b2b segment, that I mostly targeting.
I can understand that just another SaaS that only was created to consume tokens, serve two unsatisfied customers and die has no quality requirements.
But if mistake cost is higher then developer hourly rate (for example - accounting, supply chain, manufacturing systems), It makes sense to pay upfront to get predictable outcome.
Wide_Obligation4055@reddit
I didn't say that. I said that software generation has made software worthless as a commodity. The only reason software engineering is still a job is that high quality software is in high demand.
Vibe coded software produced by non engineers is too low quality. However the quality doubles every 6 months. So within a finite time frame, eg 3-4 years, no human will be able to produce software of as high quality as Agentic AI can. Just like no human can beat a top chess computer.
der_struct@reddit (OP)
I don’t think that is the case. In chess game there is one defined desired outcome, that is very easy to describe.
In software the best definition desired outcome - is code itself. There is no prompt that will describe it better. What LLM does - it assumes desired outcome from your prompt using statistical models (filling the gaps of information). It can be accurate in most cases, but it will never be accurate in all cases.
If we look in the future, I think is more probable that software itself will be partially replaced by some kind of AI runtime engines (consume tokens to run).
Wide_Obligation4055@reddit
You describe a theoretical limitation. Chess is doable without AI. Go the game required AI. Once they let it teach itself it be ame superior to humans, as it then did at protein folding. You need to use the latest pay fir models via agentic coding. Then decide impartially on empirical evidence.
der_struct@reddit (OP)
Go game also has defined desired outcome, that is very easy to describe. And "Then decide impartially on empirical evidence." is still assuming desired outcome using statistical models, but with more iterations.
Sure it's a theoretical limitation, but I think there is a mathematical proof for it.
Budget-Length2666@reddit
you missed that train about 10 years ago, when new web frameworks had a chance. Nobody is switching anymore nowadays and especially not gonna use a non MIT licensed alpha framework with no community and no battle testing.
der_struct@reddit (OP)
Thanks.
R2_SWE2@reddit
I think this kind of ad would play better on LinkedInÂ
der_struct@reddit (OP)
This is not ad
ExperiencedDevs-ModTeam@reddit
Rule 8: No Surveys/Advertisements
If you think this shouldn't apply to you, get approval from moderators first.