‘It's incredibly bad’: No end in sight to Colorado River water crisis
Posted by Portalrules123@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 76 comments
Posted by Portalrules123@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 76 comments
froggyfox@reddit
The snowpack situation for the western US is no bueno, to be sure.
Zer0nerve@reddit
https://snowpack.water-data.com/uppercolorado/index.php?getall=1
froggyfox@reddit
As of now, 65.86% of the whole American West is in drought, with 96.01% of New Mexico, 95.49% of Colorado, 95.86% of Wyoming, 68.59% of Idaho, and 56.63% of Montana in drought. I'm starting the Continental Divide Trail tomorrow or Thursday, so that's gonna be some shit. I'm bringing 9 liters of water carrying capacity - hopefully that'll be sufficient. In a normal year, 4 to 6 liters is all you need to carry. Fire is going to follow me as I head north, hopefully I can stay ahead of it.
froggyfox@reddit
The water has come for the most part, but just as rain, not snow
Kootenay4@reddit
AFAIK the Colorado River basin has been receiving close to normal snowfall in recent years, but the climate has shifted such that spring has become hotter and drier, which decimates the snowpack before it can melt into the main rivers. Historically, April and May saw significant rainfall and cooler temps which boosted soil moisture at lower elevations before the heavy snowmelt began. Due to the saturated soils, snowmelt runoff flowed straight into the Colorado River's tributaries. Now that snowmelt runoff gets soaked into the soil once it reaches lower elevations, and so we get the odd phenomenon of snowpack that just "disappears".
Last year, snowpack peaked pretty close to 100% of average but runoff was only 50%.
Interestingly, the winter of 2015 was pretty lousy in terms of snowpack, but that season saw unusually strong spring rains and overall runoff ended up pretty close to average for the year.
ShyElf@reddit
That's the average of some higher altitude sites chosen for snow data. The variation is larger after evaporation, which was higher than normal due to it being warmer. There's still brushification due to CO2 fertilization and invasive species, evaporating extra as well.
Lake Powell Basin from the usually optimistic https://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/dash/lp.php: Precip though March: 76% of "normal", Runoff April-July, 22% of normal, runoff full water year, 40% of normal.
Maximum Conservation they've seriously considered so far is about 84% of normal usage, and even that expires this year.
froggyfox@reddit
That's another properly depressing page right there.
Goddamn
Mike-Banachek@reddit
They need some darker reds o truly make sense of that chart!
froggyfox@reddit
Oh, definitely. Normally, there would be a few more colors on that map, but the highest value is only 85%
froggyfox@reddit
It is a fair bit of a problem out west. Water for agriculture, drinking water, flora and fauna, power generation, etc. is toast. Tourism dollars are gonna be way down this year cause you can't really run ski parks without snow, or guide raft tours when the water level is a tiny fraction of normal. I'm starting my hike of the Continental Divide Trail NOBO on Wednesday, and it's going to be a weird year, there is no doubt. Water carries are likely going to be significantly longer than usual. I'm probably going to be running north from wildfires. It'll put a little pip in my step, I suppose.
hustonat@reddit
Maybe all of those people in the Phoenix / Scottsdale area with lush green grass that in no way belongs in that ecosystem will finally realize….. Nah that’s crazy talk.
673moto@reddit
While lawns are wasteful...I think they represent a small part of the equation. At least in California I believe residential water use is less than 10%...I know there's way more agriculture here...but still, there's bigger players in the game.
Bluest_waters@reddit
Well this is true it's just the concept! lush green lawns in the desert are just an absolute waste of resources, and simply should not be allowed. Regardless of the percentage of overall water use it's not the point.
brooklyndavs@reddit
But that’s such a simplistic way to look at it. Sure ban the lawns, but are you making yourself feel better or are you actually trying to solve a problem? Because if your actually serious about solving the problem you know this literally is only a drop in the bucket
Small-Palpitation310@reddit
What a dumb comment.
RepliesToNarcissists@reddit
More than one thing at a time can be done. If lawns are only a small part of the problem, they are still part of the problem.
DrTreeMan@reddit
Its a bucket in which every drop counts now. Residential water use for landscaping is about 5% of all water use, which is meaningful.
GiftToTheUniverse@reddit
In LA the public schools all have asphalt for the kids to play and eat lunch on. There is some living grass but only ever for Glorious Sports.
Meanwhile zero of the golf courses are paved in asphalt, and none are covered in artificial turf.
We even have a few polo grounds, too. Watered not by sprinklers (which migh hurt horse's feet) but by water canons placed at the edges of the pitch. This is a game that uses 40-80 horses per match and takes up the space of nine football fields.
But the kids run and play and eat their lunches on asphalt behind razorwire fencing.
zue4@reddit
But muh lawn.
Pardot42@reddit
Let's start with the golf courses and car washes before we fuck with Nana's vegetable garden, mmkay?
4_AOC_DMT@reddit
let's start with the industrial alfalfa exportation all over AZ before we go after people's lawns, let alone their vegetable gardens
Practical_Studio360@reddit
Data centers and chip fabs have entered the chat.
GiftToTheUniverse@reddit
"WE MUST GROW FOOD!" (For China's horses.)
ispq@reddit
A lot of it is for cows in Saudi Arabia.
Unlucky_Business2165@reddit
Yes, I worked alongside one of the Colorado River tribes, and all of their alphapha and bermudagrass went to the Saudis for their horses. That and one casino is how the tribe survived. They even let more water out than they should at certain times at the expense of the crops because they had to use their allocation of water or get a lower allocation in the future. About half the land in the area was tribe, but the other half was probate land owners doing the same.
banjo_solo@reddit
“The Colorado River Basin states of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, and Wyoming dedicate 54 percent of all basin irrigation water to forage crops for livestock. Alfalfa alone consumes enough water to satisfy the indoor residential requirements of all 40 million [Colorado River] basin inhabitants for three and a half years.”
Perpetual_bored@reddit
If we’re talking about Southern Nevada, Las Vegas specifically is a model worldwide for water preservation in a desert.
The issue with the Colorado is due to Southern California and more heavily, agriculture.
There is no reason that crops should be grown for corporate profit with water from a river than can’t maintain its reservoirs.
winston_obrien@reddit
Call me crazy, but food seems way more important than the corporate profits of a gambling Mecca in the desert.
WISavant@reddit
This talking point is corporate propaganda. Stop being a shill for the most evil people on the planet.
brooklyndavs@reddit
Exactly. Residential use in the valley is less than it was in 1950. Even golf courses aren’t the problem they use reclaimed water. The urban areas of Arizona and Las Vegas are the most water wise areas in the country. The problem is the alfalfa farmers and the farms in the imperial valley. In fact if there is one singular entity to “blame” look at the Imperial Irrigation District.
winston_obrien@reddit
This is false dichotomy. It is the deranged to do any water intensive activity at scale in the desert.
Ok-Secretary455@reddit
Residential use in all hones is less than it was in the 1950s. This isnt some case of Phoenix being proactive and figuring out how to nake the most of the water they have. Its modern tech as a whole getting better and being less wasteful.
pippopozzato@reddit
WATER-A BIOGRAPHY-GIULIO BOCCALETTI is an awesome book that talks about the Colorado River ... things are going to get very interesting.
w3k1llsuck3rs@reddit
I’m sorry I’ve heard the same Colorado water issue since the 2000s… really hasn’t changed much, has it?
Portalrules123@reddit (OP)
SS: Related to water and climate collapse as historic warmth and drought is leading to heightened fears of a water crisis in both Wyoming (which this article focuses on) and the Colorado River basin as a whole. Snowpack is at record low levels for this time of year across much of the west, as earlier articles posted here have discussed. To make matters worse, western states still haven’t reached a new agreement on usage of water from the Colorado River, making it more likely that an excess amount will continue to be extracted. There are now fears that reservoirs such as Lake Powell could drop low enough that the dam that forms it will no longer produce hydroelectric power. If the water drops even lower than that, the dam could be at risk of total structural failure as evidently the water pressure helps support it. Wyoming farmers have been warned that heavy restrictions on irrigation are coming. Wyoming isn’t even the worst off, areas further south on the Rio Grande watershed have something like 10% of the average snowpack for this time of year. All in all, expect a historic water crisis later this year in the western USA. And this year may be one of the least bad years on average if this trend continues into the future….
Ree_For_Thee@reddit
Actually eyebrow-raising.
errie_tholluxe@reddit
We can't afford to fix or repair it. We're at war remember! -team trump
Ree_For_Thee@reddit
The entire west coast has everything to gain by seceding lol.
SomeRandomGuydotdot@reddit
Well, except water.
cr0ft@reddit
$2700 billion annually or thereabouts spent on the war machine. With the war of aggression against Iran, hell, it's gonna be more. Just the three F15's they lost to friendly fire was 100+ million, minimum.
cr0ft@reddit
Yeah, not an expert at dams but I presume the dynamic tension of all that water weight helps keep the construction in balance.
Every sane person anywhere who has spent even a little time studying up on climate change should realize by now that the river will not be up to the task. It's already being overexploited and every state along it want more than it's giving already.
There should have been plans and construction already to do things like ensuring there's enough power without this hydro, like massive solar installations, and multi-billion dollar desalinization if people still want to live in some of the areas affected.
But all hail capitalism, where nothing is done because it might cost money; when it's too late, people throw blame around and reluctantly try to take action.
Kootenay4@reddit
The way it's written in the article is misleading. The dam is of course able to support its own weight, since obviously there was no water behind the dam when they originally built it.
I believe the "failure" they are referring to is that when water levels drop below a certain level, it is no longer possible to release water through the power plant, and the only remaining way to release water is via the auxiliary low level outlets. These outlets were not designed to be used for extended periods of time, and there is a risk that they could be damaged if used in this way. If they were to be damaged, they'd have to be shut off, and then there would be no way to release water at all, causing the river below the dam to dry up completely (at least until water levels again rise high enough that the power plant can be used).
The overall situation in the Colorado River basin very bad this year, but there is no risk of Glen Canyon dam collapsing. The only time the dam's structural integrity was threatened was in the summer of 1983 when there was too MUCH water behind it.
Ok-Secretary455@reddit
Well its projected to drop below 3,490 feet in December at the latest. Thats the level at which it can no longer make power. Currrent level is 3,526 feet so only 32 feet away. Which means its only operating at something like 50-60% of capacity.
The real fun number is 3,370 feet. Thats the level that no water flows past the dam anymore. As in no Colorado River any more.
Ree_For_Thee@reddit
...3370 feet? Is that the height or some sort of volume? Because I don't think the dam is 1 kilometer tall.
J-A-S-08@reddit
Elevation above mean sea level. Make sense?
ShyElf@reddit
It's that the lowest level outlet tubes were never intended to be operated for long periods of time, so they never bothered to armor them and left them as soft natural stone. If you choose to keep using them for long periods of time anyhow, eventually they erode into massive holes that you can't close.
Ree_For_Thee@reddit
Okay, time to rebuild the entire dam again I guess. Good luck with that under the regulicans.
kittykatmila@reddit
Unfortunately, people are going to have to start suffering for anything to change. I hate to say that but Americans are brainwashed af.
mrpickles@reddit
I'm not even sure suffering will wake them up. They're straight up insane and will lash out at their preconceived enemies regardless reality.
OPsDearOldMother@reddit
Here in the Middle Rio Grande irrigation district we just had our last delivery of irrigation water for the season, and the season just started a few weeks ago.
Farmers are fully praying and reliant on a good summer monsoon at this point.
PlutoJones42@reddit
The need to make sure the homes of the rich and data centers are getting heavy regulated for water usage
cr0ft@reddit
But why did no-one tell us this might be a consequence of climate change?? /s
mrblahblahblah@reddit
I wish you had seen the big farms in Utah, watering their fields in the middle of a hot July day. I'm not a farmer, but it seems to me that it would be less wasteful to do it at night
Nettwerk911@reddit
"Turn on the water spigot" - DJT
Successful-Try-8506@reddit
Paolo Bacigalupi's novel "The Water Knife" becoming reality.
UND_mtnman@reddit
Except we don't have the useful technology to make it manageable/survivable.
96-62@reddit
Maybe not that technology, but you guys don't need to be growing such water intensive crops. From a technological standpoint, it's all quite solvable, it's a political problem. (I think this will be the new "the rest is just software").
UND_mtnman@reddit
True. Growing almonds in Cali, anything in Arizona...foolish moves...
Repulsive-Theory-477@reddit
Damn where will the cattle graze now?
Nathan-Stubblefield@reddit
At the same time some Midwest states are 30% above long term average precipitation.
Lagoon___Music@reddit
I love how inconvenient facts get downvoted on this sub. Great reflection of how people aren't here to learn, but rather to feel doom.
boneyfingers@reddit
When the news reports that a house is on fire, it makes nonsense to point out that two blocks away, nothing is burning.
artisanrox@reddit
do you not understand that places getting a massive overage of water is bad and part of all this too
MorningPooper4Lyfe@reddit
Maybe the downvote is because how does that help Colorado?
froggyfox@reddit
What matters for water supply is over what time span rain/snow arrives. If it all comes at once, it just runs off and is not of much use to anybody. Currently, the Midwest is generally in a better situation than the rest of the country water-wise, but it's far from great.
23% of the Midwest is at some level of drought, compared to 50.1% for the lower 48 as a whole. It's less bad, but it's still bad.
roblewk@reddit
The Great Lakes are in a better situation than the rest of the country. We are still a ways off from a northern migration, but it will happen.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Still time to start building walls between Illinois and Indiana and along Michigan's southern border (can't do anything with the blood red states of Indiana and Ohio, unfortunately).
Hey, MAGAts love walls, after all.
Individual_Bar7021@reddit
We get the corn sweats around my area now. There is so much corn planted that it is adding humidity to our air. It’s so gross.
Informal-Sea-6047@reddit
Out of curiosity, do you know why that is ?
Norinthecautious@reddit
Climate chaos?
K33P4D@reddit
just need to steal some aqua cola, off to gas town war boisss
tface23@reddit
“We’ve done nothing and it’s not getting better! Who could have seen this coming!”
NyriasNeo@reddit
"After extra releases this year, it will take time to replenish Flaming Gorge. What if 2027 is another bad year, and beyond that?"
Then they may be screwed. But at this point, it is dominant strategy to release anyway. Unless there is something you can do about it (which reversing climate change enough in one year, or even 3 is not possible), take it one day at a time.
elihu@reddit
Weird to begin the article of a picture of what it looked like in 2021, apparently at or near full capacity.
click-monster@reddit
Ah, the media's good ol' "use a stock image that accurately reflects the core issue" routine
StatementBot@reddit
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Portalrules123:
SS: Related to water and climate collapse as historic warmth and drought is leading to heightened fears of a water crisis in both Wyoming (which this article focuses on) and the Colorado River basin as a whole. Snowpack is at record low levels for this time of year across much of the west, as earlier articles posted here have discussed. To make matters worse, western states still haven’t reached a new agreement on usage of water from the Colorado River, making it more likely that an excess amount will continue to be extracted. There are now fears that reservoirs such as Lake Powell could drop low enough that the dam that forms it will no longer produce hydroelectric power. If the water drops even lower than that, the dam could be at risk of total structural failure as evidently the water pressure helps support it. Wyoming farmers have been warned that heavy restrictions on irrigation are coming. Wyoming isn’t even the worst off, areas further south on the Rio Grande watershed have something like 10% of the average snowpack for this time of year. All in all, expect a historic water crisis later this year in the western USA. And this year may be one of the least bad years on average if this trend continues into the future….
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1sja4l1/its_incredibly_bad_no_end_in_sight_to_colorado/ofq3qnx/