Vice President JD Vance says talks with Iran ended after 21 hours without reaching agreement
Posted by PreviousCurrentThing@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 144 comments
ToranjaNuclear@reddit
So it's back to ending civilizations or TACO night?
I'm honestly surprised Donnie hasn't simply backed out and acted like he won while the world burns. It would probably be enough for his fanbase and his ego.
umonoz@reddit
I think it's just that he can't at this point. Iranians won't trust the goodwill of those bases and will ask for reparations of some way. They won't let this slip easily.
tommytwolegs@reddit
He started shit he can't TACO for once. Sure I guess he could just pack up and go home, leave all middle east bases and entirely capitulate to Iran, but it would possibly be the single most embarrassing US defeat in the history of the Republic. He would lose the only support he has left.
umonoz@reddit
This would end his presidency and possibly his life. No way MIC or even republicans would let this.
ToranjaNuclear@reddit
It's no wonder Trump resorted to nuke threats, there's no way the US wins without escalating the war into unpopular territory and he knows this.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
They'll just keep bombing civilians until someone agrees to a deal on their terms. To them any country who doesn't submit must be punished
FaceDeer@reddit
I think Iran is willing to accept the loss of more civilians than even the Americans are willing to kill. If the Americans get to some real serious massacrein' the public reaction would doom them even harder.
Paradoxjjw@reddit
If anything the US randomly blowing up civilians is going to harden the resolve of the Iranian people against the US. We figured out almost a century ago that terrorbombing doesn't work
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
Which (to those doing the bombing) is only going to make them want to bomb them even more
Fundamentally America is a bully, and bullies hate being told no or having anyone stand up to them
Even if it eventually ends with them standing down they'll punish the Iranian people as much as possible first
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
They and their allies have been massacring non stop for the last few years and it doesn't seem to have changed anything. I just don't think those in charge really care what the public think over there
PreviousCurrentThing@reddit (OP)
When did this happen?
ThatOneGuy444@reddit
I think threatening to end a civilization in a night was interpreted by some (many?) as a nuclear threat.
fatmustardcheese@reddit
"A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. I don't want that to happen, but it probably will"
LazyGandalf@reddit
Wouldn't that essentially mean Iran gets nukes? Would be pretty difficult to paint that as a win.
ToranjaNuclear@reddit
Yeah, of course. Just two more hours and Iran get nukes now.
LazyGandalf@reddit
Ha ha. It's not some conspiracy theory that Iran has been working towards acquiring nukes. There's a reason there was a nuclear deal. And you don't end up with piles of 60% enriched uranium by accident.
ToranjaNuclear@reddit
Yeah man, you're right, just 10 more minutes now (since 1990).
LazyGandalf@reddit
Just to be clear, are you saying Iran has no aspirations to aquire nukes?
ToranjaNuclear@reddit
No, I'm saying that pretty much every estimative of Iran acquiring nukes for the last decades have been bullshit and we have absolutely no reason to believe they are any closer to it than they were 30 years ago, especially when it's being so blatantly used as propaganda by two unhinged nuclear powers to justify bombing children and just giving Iran more reasons to actually get serious about getting nukes.
Hope that was clear enough.
Rindan@reddit
Trump would have backed out and declared victory weeks ago if he could have. Iran won't let him. They have taken control of the strait for any ship that isn't a US missile destroyer. There is no "backing out" until ships are freely moving through the passage without Iranian interference, and there is no obvious way to make the Iranians agree to that.
Trump is trapped. The American public including much of his own base hates this war and are pissed, but the Iranians won't let him pull his foot out of the trap he dumbly put it into. Now Iran has leverage as this idiot tries to get free before mid term elections.
splashbodge@reddit
I guess it's a good thing that the Masters is on and it's keeping Trump preoccupied and away from doing more stupid (unless I've just tuned out from more of his madness). Probably why he wanted the ceasefire to begin with
I-Here-555@reddit
Let's see. There's still the optimistic scenario of keeping the tenuous de-facto ceasefire without an agreement.
Socraman@reddit
What lego videos if I may ask?
ChillAhriman@reddit
Look up "Iranian AI lego propaganda" on Youtube. They release a new one every two days or so.
QuickRundown@reddit
He couldn’t fucking sell it. He’s not respected.
I can’t wait to see what insane bullshit Trump tweets out threatening WWIII in a few hours. Bottom text.
Fletaun@reddit
My estimation of JD Vance as a man just fuckin’ plummeted.
It always low to begin with
BendicantMias@reddit
I mean, tbf to him, he didn't want to be part of this. If the NYT article is to be believed, he was against this war to begin with. But not strong enough to refuse Trump. Now he's been roped into these peace talks cos Iran refused to talk to Trump, so he's probably feeling really frustrated atm. But he's just too weak of a man to say no to his sugar daddy.
dooooonut@reddit
The Iranians wanted him there to ensure Isreal wouldn't bomb them, like they do every other time
GothicGolem29@reddit
The talks were in Pakistan I doubt they would have bombed then there
dooooonut@reddit
Would you bet your life on it?
GothicGolem29@reddit
I would have been confident enough to attend if I was a negotiator
BendicantMias@reddit
I mean, the talks are in Pakistan. Do you think Israel would bomb Islamabad? Even if Pakistan didn't use its nukes, it could very well be driven to share them (and weapons and whatever else). Especially if Iran is willing to pay. Similar to how Israel has nukes thanks to France..
pass_nthru@reddit
south africa also had a lot to do with the israeli nukes, that and the Rosenbergs and that one guy who stole a bunch of fissile material from the US
KrisPBaykon@reddit
The dude that stole the fissile material doesn’t get talked about enough. He got out of jail and of course was given a hero’s welcome in Israel, including military awards and living accommodations.
NetworkLlama@reddit
If you're talking about Zalman Shapiro, who was a key part of the NUMEC affair involving several hundred pounds of missing highly enriched uranium, he was never charged, much less convicted. Shapiro visited Israel several times, but he died in Pittsburgh in 2016.
I think you're confusing him with Jonathan Pollard, who sent highly classified information and the names of thousands of people who had cooperated with US intelligence agencies to Israel. He had nothing to do with any nuclear technology or material. After his release from prison in 2020, he immediately moved to Israel, where he received a hero's welcome, accomodations, and a pension.
KrisPBaykon@reddit
Yep you are right, I was thinking of pollard. I thought they were the same guy
helio97@reddit
They did bomb hamas in Qatar, even though Qatar hosts Hamas because it was asked to by the US and Israel. If I was Iran that is not something I want to risk.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Qatar is closer to Israel and does not have nukes. It seems very unlikely they would have bombed Pakistan
Canadian_Border_Czar@reddit
Not just to ensure it but to know the talks were serious.
heckin_miraculous@reddit
lol @ vance "not wanting to be a part" of Trump's suicidal administration. Fuck all these guys. I hope they live a long, long time, and that every day is the worst day of their lives.
I-Here-555@reddit
He volunteered. It's not VP's role to do these talks. Trump could have sent Rubio.
martxel93@reddit
Iran asked specifically for Vance.
I-Here-555@reddit
Iran asked for many things and got none... except Vance, I guess.
martxel93@reddit
My theory is that the Iranians realised JD was trying to distance himself from the whole Iran War debacle and pressured for him on purpose to put even more pressure on the Americans.
TripolarKnight@reddit
That is very likely. Hell, the whole "Vance the peaceful" media push is just him realizing how such a dumb war would affect his electoral chances and not something born out of altruism.
NetworkLlama@reddit
Leaks from this administration have had Vance against the war from the start not just on electoral grounds but on personal belief. He believed the CIA when they said that Netanyahu's goals of regime change through aerial bombardment and arming of dissident factions was "farcical." He was in a tiny minority, though.
TripolarKnight@reddit
If Vance was really against the war, he could have pushed against Trump. Unlike the rest of the Cabinet, Trump can't fire him. Hell, the talks would have been a perfect place to "land" a deal and publicize it before Trump+Bibi could squirm their way out of.
NetworkLlama@reddit
Trump can't fire him, but he can entirely sideline him. We're used to vice presidents taking an active role in administrations, but this is largely a post-WW2 phenomenon (though John Nance Garner was active in pushing New Deal legislation through in the 1930s). If Vance takes too much of the spotlight, I don't think Trump will have any difficulty finding pointless things for him to do out of the spotlight while belittling him constantly for doing only pointless things. Vance is unlikely to speak out if that happens.
TripolarKnight@reddit
The sidelining is already on-going. Rubio seems to have become Trump's darling and unofficial successor. Probably because he handled Venezuela as promised and is a better spoken. more professional statesman.
Saorren@reddit
that doesnt mean trump wouldnt try to get another vp hangd by an angry mob come 2028 if he loses.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Because giving Vance to the negotiations was probably less costly than the other things Iran was demanding
recreationalgluttony@reddit
Getting the U.S. to send the vice president for negotiations isn't an ask, it's a demand.
If America could bomb and drone strike their way out of this situation, they would have, but they can't.
Paradoxjjw@reddit
I can already picture how that went. "They're going to send Rubio? Can you ask for anyone else? Even the couch fucker would be better"
AmaroWolfwood@reddit
Zero minus zero equals double zero.
Altruistic_Guess3098@reddit
Wtf did you expect lmao
Reasonable-Access-68@reddit
After those talks, he had to crawl under the couch for warmth.
Broseph_Stalinnn@reddit
Thank you for your attention to this matter! or whatever he puts at the end of every tweet.
Covfefe
Not-the-best-name@reddit
"Praise be Allah"
ChemicalDeath47@reddit
Not gonna lie, I really thought he would get something, to carry out the real reason he was there. So that Israel could pull a false flag and put him in a pine box so that the US would declare war for real.
27Rench27@reddit
Look what you did, are you happy with what you made the universe do by challenging it?
Green_Space729@reddit
Given the new demands from the US
the U.S demanded zero enrichment, removal of nearly 900 pounds of stockpile uranium from the country and a new demand of U.S. “management of the security of the Strait of Hormuz on their own terms.”
I-Here-555@reddit
To be fair, they were offered Trump's most sincere guarantees of not bombing Iran until he has a mood swing or Netanyahu asks him.
Paradoxjjw@reddit
By my calculations those are good until the next time a school bell rings
onespiker@reddit
He will do that between talking about his new ballroom.
He has actually tweeted more about that than the Iran war...
FapTapAnon@reddit
Dude you can't do that. This isn't r/weed_gang "We live in a society..." I miss that sub
blyzo@reddit
The deal should be that Iran will gain official control and rights over Hormuz similar to Panama or Egypt and the Suez.
In exchange Iran agrees to no nukes and to stop funding or supporting attacks against Israel.
All sides could still claim a W and no civilizations or global economies destroyed.
Shady_bookworm51@reddit
yea in no universe do they agree to no nukes, not after what happened and how they noticed that basically nobody bothers North Korea anymore after they got nukes.
FaceDeer@reddit
Nobody bothered North Korea before they got nukes either, that's why they were able to do it undisturbed.
The trick is that North Korea already had a "destroy everything" button, it just wasn't as far-reaching or photogenic; they had artillery capable of laying waste to Seoul in a matter of hours. Everyone knew it, so nothing much was ever done to press matters with them.
Iran has a similar "destroy everything" button, their conventional ballistic missiles and drones can end oil production in basically the entire Middle East. But unfortunately it wasn't as widely understood, especially not by the idiots in America and the bloodthirsty warmongers in Israel. So here we are, with Iran reaching for that button. I really hope it gets recognized before they have to actually push it.
Bike_Of_Doom@reddit
North Korea’s “trick” was both that the South Korean had no interest in invading them at all and that if they did for god knows what reason that the Chinese would help them on top of their own deterrence like they did during the Korean War.
luk__@reddit
Why does everyone forget that we (Europe and the US) HAD a deal with Iran in 2015?
Guess who fucked everyone over with walking away from it unilaterally?
BendicantMias@reddit
No one has forgotten that. It's what every possible deal Trump tries to make is compared to, and ofc comes up short. It's why he's in such a dilemma - he needs to come up with a better deal than Obama did, as he criticized it to the high heavens, but he simply can't get one and is now in an even worse negotiating position to bargain with.
So he's left with only two options - either concede to humiliation and hope to god that his base is dumb enough to buy it as a 'victory', or go for broke and gamble it all on a last ditch all-in invasion of Iran to get that regime change. And he's terrified of the latter, as it could land him in the biggest soup of any American president in living memory.
Frankly I'm surprised he hasn't lashed out at Netanyahu yet. Bibi was the one who sold him on the idea that he could win quickly and easily. He should be pissed at the guy by this point. People go on about how Trump is surrounded by yes-men. And yet he himself seems to be incredibly accomodative of Bibi.
Laringar@reddit
He's accommodating to Bibi because his advisors are telling him to be.
The influence of the Christian doomsday cultists on all this cannot be overstated. They actively want Iran and Israel at war because their insane endtime prophesies require it. That fact needs to be in the back of your mind every time you read about Trump's failure to deescalate, because it's the result his advisors want. They want war, but they also want to make it look like Iran's fault, so they're doing whatever they can to make it seem like they're "being reasonable" while actively sabotaging attempts at peace.
BendicantMias@reddit
What exactly is their prophecy anyway? How is all this supposed to play out?
Laringar@reddit
So, this part comes from comes from Ezekiel 36 & 37 ( https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2038-39&version=NIV).
It basically says that Gog and Magog (typically interpreted as Russia and Iran) will team up with most of the other Arab nations to launch a massive attack against an undefended Israel. But as an earthquake strikes Israel, God Himself will strike down the attacking armies, and the equipment they drop will fuel the fires of Israel for seven years. This part is usually interpreted by the fundamentalists to mean that nuclear weapons will be deployed but miraculously stopped, and the leftover fissile material will power Israeli reactors.
Despite the fact that nothing says when this would happen, it gets combined with other prophesies from Revelations to all be part of the end times. Thus, the Nationalist Christians want to accelerate this process so the Temple in Jerusalem can be rebuilt, which is another part of what they believe is necessary for the Second Coming of Christ. (The location where the temple is "supposed" to be rebuilt is currently occupied by one of the top holy sites of Islam, so the Nat-Cs conclude that a big war against Muslims is necessary to clear the site.)
Capable-Yam4557@reddit
It emerged around the 90s. Basically we are at the end of time, the Messiah will come the earth soon. A verse in the Bible told whoever blessed the Israel will be blessed by the God, or something like that (I'm not a christian).
This has been denied by the Catholic Church that Israel in that verse is not the modern state of Israel, but the Catholic Church itself. But most Protestants including Evangelicals in the US believes that the state of Israel is the prophecized state.
So supporting modern Israel is the ticket to be guaranteed protection by the God when the Armageddon arrives. In Israel, Netanyahu is seen as the Little Messiah who would pave the way for the real Messiah who would lead Israel and Christians to fight against the great evil (Islam).
Ironically even in the prophecy, it is said that the great devil (anti christ) will gain vast support by christians themselves by claiming as the champion of peace and justice.
ChillAhriman@reddit
According to that one NYT article, the Israelies would have sold Trump this war as a quick and easy victory while his advisors kinda tried to lay low.
Of course, it's also possible that the sources of the NYT tried to spin the story in a way that reduces the responsibility of his advisors.
BurialA12@reddit
Yeah that was wild, the US side even concluded they knew Israel was overselling it
But they still went for it
chillichampion@reddit
There’s no way Iran would stop funding its allies unless Israel stops its aggression maybe.
kontemplador@reddit
From Iran's perspective, it's the other way around. Blocking the strait is the leverage they have, but many countries, even friendly ones to Iran, would not like that precedent, even if they understand it for now.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Why would Iran agree to that when Israel refuses to stop funding attacks against Iran?
blyzo@reddit
Yeah that would need to be part of the deal as well.
Though neither side would actually honor it, just say they would to stop the open war.
NetworkLlama@reddit
The difference is that the two canals run through Panama and Egypt, both having been cut out of the actual territory. The Strait of Hormuz is an international waterway, and part of it is in Omani waters. Allowing tolls on it would set a really bad precedent that others might want to emulate to take advantage of shipping having to go through narrow channels such as those found around Malaysia or Indonesia.
Green_Space729@reddit
The strait of Hormuz is around 17 miles wide.
8.5 per country coast.
It’s not international waters.
It’s only called that by the west for personal convenience.
Dark1000@reddit
It is classified as an international strait under the UN Law of the Seas which guarantees access to commercial shipping.
Regardless, it's not that they are international water, it's really that the Strait blocks access to international waters for countries that sit behind it including Kuwait, Iraq, the UAE, Bahrain, and Qatar.
No2Hypocrites@reddit
Iran doesn't have to care about anything international. They have been excluded and pushed out of international relations. UAE Qatar etc can pay fees for transit
Dark1000@reddit
That's another question for sure, but their trolling plan definitely doesn't align with it.
Nethlem@reddit
Neither Iran nor the US actually ratified UNCLOS
BendicantMias@reddit
Notably Iran is apparently happy to let Oman have half the money.
Jaquemart@reddit
Something about going through the straits and not paying tolls? You know, for those of us uninvolved in this shitshow?
Kitchen_Letter8775@reddit
Why would the Iranians agree to no nukes? They have already paid the full price of having nukes by getting bombed. At very least, they must opt out of NPT and maintain a nuclear ambiguity policy.
All the US can get in return is an open strait under Iranian terms.
ChillAhriman@reddit
Extremely unlikely. Iran knows that the US-Israel team has been encroaching through the whole region, have expansionist aims, and have never stopped seeing them as an enemy to beat. If they agree to a status quo that allows them to continue making gains as the years pass by, they'd be accepting that they'll have to fight another defensive war in the future - under less favorable conditions.
BendicantMias@reddit
Both Iran and the US have more demands than just the Strait and nukes. So this doesn't even encompass all each side wants. Plus even in this 'deal' Trump would be utterly reliant on his votebases' gullibility to claim this as a win, as no one else will see it as one. Iran already said no nukes before, and the Strait was open before - so Trump would've just made a worse deal than the one he built his campaign plank criticizing Obama for. It would be an utter humiliation to all observers apart from possibly hardcore MAGAts.
sulaymanf@reddit
The US bombed the meeting place of negotiations in Iraq with Muqtada al-Sadr and assassinated Soleimani and Iraqi diplomats during a diplomatic meeting in Baghdad. Trump bragged that he was using negotiations as cover to send bombers to Iran last June, and then lied about how he had Iranians begging him for a ceasefire last month, which they denied. That’s after Trump tore up the JCPOA after Iran complied and handed over their nuclear material, and after Trump publicly told his NATO allies he won’t honor the treaty with them.
Negotiations with the US are not just a waste of time, they’re deadly to anyone who enters them, and that’s the message the Iranians see. The US doesn’t honor its commitments to its allies let alone its opponents.
thegodfather0504@reddit
That is so incredibly barbaric levels of honorless. The whole world should have been at trump's throat for doing that.
sulaymanf@reddit
It’s because Trump (and Hegseth) was so irrationally overconfident. To them, the US has zero limits on power; the military can win any war and nobody can tell him no. Why bother with diplomacy then? Why worry about “soft power” or allies when you can just force any country to bend to your will?
Iran is the first time Trump had to pay a price for his arrogance. He insulted and tariffed all his allies and threatened to invade Greenland. Then once Iran didn’t collapse immediately like Israel and Graham and Fox News told him would happen, he tried to pressure them to help out but they predictably said no. Nobody wanted to send their troops into an unpopular war and stand in front of US forces as bullet sponges.
thegodfather0504@reddit
But this is not enough for me. I want horrible things to happen to him.
sulaymanf@reddit
Absolutely.
neatdude73@reddit
There's no reason for pakistan to be falsely claiming that the talks are going smoothly. So clearly vance must be lying. So america just keeping up the pretense of negotiations to stall for time has to be the most likely scenario.
So are they planning some more covert ops? They're really doubling down on this war being the right thing to do aren't they.
imunfair@reddit
That whole narrative was fed to them by the US negotiators so that Trump could TACO out of his threats and hope that he can go back to casually bombing them once negotiations inevitably fail. They're just playing for time because he doesn't know how to exit without looking like a loser.
PreviousCurrentThing@reddit (OP)
It will be interesting what effect this has on the two-week ceasefire and the reopening of the Strait of Hormuz, where early today several crude tankers departed through.
Earlier today, CENTCOM announced that two guided missile destroyers had entered the Gulf to prepare for minesweeping operations. Was this ceasefire and negotiations merely another pretense by the US for shaping purposes?
Born-Procedure-5908@reddit
Ceasefires rarely yield a permanent agreement in the first few rounds, from what I've seen of them with recent conflicts, such as the war in Ukraine or Sudan, amongst many others.
While Iran has enormous control over their willingness to shut the Strait and the GCC economy, the U.S also hasn't taken enough material/tactical losses to force their hands to agree to some of the more optimistic portions of the 10 points, so they're practically at a standstill due to the maximalist position either side wants.
finbarrgalloway@reddit
I have a very bad feeling this is going to result in large scale bombing of Iranian infrastructure and the whole place turning into a defacto failed state. Has the possibility to cause a massive refugee crisis too.
BendicantMias@reddit
Wouldn't work. They'd annihilate the rest of the region - and STILL block the Strait. There's only one way Trump can possibly salvage this war, and it's the one thing he's terrified of doing - invading Iran properly. No more pure air war.
Laringar@reddit
Even then, the country is built like a fortress already with terrain that is very hostile to invasion. So the word "possibly" is doing a hell of a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence. The only achievable path to salvaging the situation is to fall on his sword, metaphorically speaking, but of course he'll never do that so we're just all fucked.
BendicantMias@reddit
Yes, which is why Trump is terrified of taking that option. It's an all-in gamble to pull victory from the jaws of defeat. He built his campaign on opposing a past 'forever war' - he'll do anything to avoid getting into one himself. Or almost anything. As you said, his only other option is to 'fall on his sword'.
MacLightning@reddit
Brother, this is his last term, his last chance to do whatever the fuck he wants (granted he doesn't give himself a third term). His voting campaign has absolutely no meaning anymore, as are of most "career" politicians.
BendicantMias@reddit
The mid terms are coming up, and he absolutely needs to salvage the situation for that if he hopes to achieve anything in this 'last' term of his.
KrisPBaykon@reddit
Brother he already did what he was put into office to do. He could stop everything right now and all of the objectives that the Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society have given the GOP been completed. It will take decades to undo the past year of damage.
TheRicFlairDrip@reddit
He will just say that the mission is over, they have won and pull out. Theres nothing they can do apart from nuclear escalation to win this war without massive American casualties.
bradicality@reddit
Many are saying falling on your own sword, it's hot right now, and I've heard 'hoisted by my own petard' and we're hoisting ourselves higher and higher folks believe me
I-Here-555@reddit
Iran is 2.7x larger than Ukraine with 2.3x lager population, and a far more difficult terrain. Despite all its military might and logistics, US is still half the world away.
It wouldn't be an easy victory like Iraq or Afghanistan, and we've seen how that turned out.
BendicantMias@reddit
I didn't say it would work, nor that it would be easy. I've literally characterized it as an all-in gamble to salvage the situation in my other comments here. He either succeeds and cements his legacy, or it turns into a disaster. But politically he's already facing a disaster, so he may be tempted to try. Tbh I don't really expect a full invasion, but he might try limited special forces operations either on Kharg Island or Isfahan. Those are also high risk, but he may view the rewards as worth it. I mention a full invasion cos I don't view them as worth it i.e. I don't think they would achieve much at all.
I-Here-555@reddit
Wouldn't salvage anything, but make for a much, much bigger disaster. If limited operations would have done anything, US would have tried most likely.
Trump doesn't exactly lack boldness and decisiveness, he lacks judgement.
splashbodge@reddit
I mean he could just claim he's won and ditch Israel and end all this, give Iran what it wants... But yeh he's too stubborn to do that.
Question is if he was impeached and removed what would his replacement do.. the entire thing is political suicide for the next president. Like how Trump instigated the awful Afghanistan exit
BendicantMias@reddit
He'd never be able to live that down. Too many people are already calling his acceding to Irans' 10 point plan as the basis for negotiations as a humiliation, which is why they've been walking back on accepting anything in it ever since (with the result of no agreement as we see here). It's not just American liberals and democrats i.e. the other side who're jeering at his humiliation, everyone outside of his hardcore base is. The left, the center, even disaffected right and former MAGA ppl like Tucker Carlson - and even people and leaders abroad. He's convincing almost no one, and accepting all Irans' demands would be such an utter humiliation that I'm not sure he'd even be able to convince his base about it (especially after claiming he's already won a million times over).
I don't expect him to be removed, I think everyone would be keen to see him burn up so much that his entire movement collapses. But if or when a new leader arises, I expect they'll probably do what Biden tried - forget about dealing with his messes wrt America's enemies and instead focus on reaching out and repairing ties with its allies i.e. countries like yours. Like how Biden kept most of Trumps' tariffs on China, but tried to forge a more multilateral movement against it instead. You would know better than me as to whether your country's would be willing to forgive and forget.
name20948234@reddit
I worked so well in Syria and Iraq when the EU got flooded with refugees then every major country got attacked by ISIS (except us allies Poland and Italy). The EU started sharing intelligence with the US and with some help from US social media anti EU parties started gaining power.
Nethlem@reddit
I love how 20 years into the same refugee crisis some people are still talking about the "possibility" of "another" one like the current one hasn't been a thing.
cambeiu@reddit
If the US does that Iran will retaliate by doing the same to all the infrastructure in the Gulf (which they demonstrated they can do). We would then be looking at a global economic depression and a humanitarian crisis without precedent.
Trump would need to be suicidal to take that course of action.
Beliriel@reddit
Have you looked at Trumps coherency and decision making?
BunNGunLee@reddit
It’s tough to say. Iran was in an economic nightmare already, so I suppose one could argue it was already teetering towards being a failed state.
But losing centralizing infrastructure would absolutely take it from a tipping point to a cascade failure that would have unforeseen consequences for the entire region, let alone the global economy that ultimately favors consistency over morality.
Altruistic_Guess3098@reddit
That's what netanyahu wants
RedTulkas@reddit
US doesn't need to take any more material losses
The continued economic pressure from the Hormuz fallout is infinitely more dangerous
MongolPerson@reddit
Iran denies there are US destroyers in the Strait. It is a fog of war issue, where US says they're there and Iran says they aren't. Most likely not there.
2dudesinapod@reddit
AFAIK the US Navy does not have any mine sweepers in the Middle East at the moment. Also it’s not even clear if the Iranians have mined the strait or not.
IlluminatedPickle@reddit
If it kicks off again, those destroyers will pull back from the strait. You do not want to be that close to someone throwing missiles and drones at you. It seems like a PR stunt more than anything else.
splashbodge@reddit
I wonder if the crew on the destroyer were shitting themselves knowing they were being sent into the strait. Unless they're really caught up with their American arrogance that they're untouchable, sailing into such a narrow waters where missiles drones or even artillery can be lobbed at you would be quite nerve-wracking, not to mention the concern if the mine threat was real
Bashin-kun@reddit
Iran did say the destroyers pull off quickly (30 mins iirc).
IlluminatedPickle@reddit
Oh I wasn't aware. I thought they had headed through to the cargo ships and did a "Cmooon, move" thing.
sulaymanf@reddit
Considering Trump bragged last June that’s what his negotiations were for last time, yes. He bragged that negotiations were a trick to distract Iranians while he sent bombers from the other direction to target Iranian sites.
BendicantMias@reddit
Those ships aren't meant for minesweeping. They entered under the protection of the ceasefire, were warned to get out and did. Unless Trump intends to actually invade Kharg Island, the only purpose that sailby served was to use the ceasefire to boost Trumps' PR campaign for his votebase. It lets him claim the Strait is open and he's control, conveniently without mentioning the ceasefire that let them safely pass.
PreviousCurrentThing@reddit (OP)
No, not directly, but these would likely be brought in to provide missile and drone defense for the assets which are.
Who's reporting this?
BigPapaSlut@reddit
Us and its leader Israhell jihannam want a smooth genocide, and use the ceasefire to regroup, and recall their sold munitions to countries worldwide with IoUs.
fontasia@reddit
Fun fact, the negotiations and signings of all the treaties related to the end of world war one took longer than the war itself. But giving up after a day is fine too I guess.
NetworkLlama@reddit
The people doing negotiations to end hostilities usually know what they're doing. Vance almost certainly does not, and even if he does, Trump is unlikely to have given him the flexibility he needs. It does not help that the State Department fired or early retired so many people, including a lot of experts on the Middle East in general and Iran in particular.
TripolarKnight@reddit
Vance, Jared and Steve know exactly what they are doing (pretending to negotiate while doing Israel's bidding). A random civilian would do a better job at ending hostilities.
ChillAhriman@reddit
Let's get rid of diplomats and send businessmen to do the work of diplomats. What could go wrong.
I-Here-555@reddit
These weren't negotiations, it was some kind of a show, but it's too early to figure out what kind.
People have lengthier and more complex negotiations with their spouse about who takes out the trash... and often to sleep on it, instead of breaking it off after 20h.
Kitchen_Letter8775@reddit
Talks = one-sided unreasonable demands by the US
The Americans are truly naive to think they can get what they couldn’t achieve by force through negotiations. Next time, when they are not delusional anymore, the Iranians will demand even more than what they asked during this round.
name20948234@reddit
My guess is that they ran out of interceptor missiles so a ceasefire and pretenses of wanting to negotitate gives them 2 weeks to restock. Also the good old ''bomb Iran- peace is imminent - bomb Iran'' stock market grift.
amineahd@reddit
well iran is not letting control of the strait anymore because trump not only reneged on past agreements he even order to assassinate those he was negotiating with... so FAFO?
Paradoxjjw@reddit
Even if he fell over dead tomorrow Iran wouldn't let go of it because they saw how high on their own exceptionalism Americans are, electing completely deranged lunatics like Trump twice.
ThevaramAcolytus@reddit
The U.S. demands were completely unacceptable non-starters so I'm glad that Tehran held its ground and defended its national interest in the diplomatic forum.
But unfortunately, as was predictable and predicted, it means that the countdown to the war's resumption and near-inevitable escalation has begun.
PreviousCurrentThing@reddit (OP)
Yeah, agreed. I can't really see much which would stop it at this point.
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