At what point does a daily driver become unpractical?
Posted by Bigrat445@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 86 comments
With the prices of cars right now do you let go of the devil you know for the devil you don't or face a higher cost of ownership because of worse mpg's?
So I have an old 5-speed 4wd Tacoma that is very cheap to insure as a young male driver and is easy to fix. It's sturdy with a rust free frame and it drives fine other then the 540k mile engine and trans feeling worn and tired. It's been reliable in the past 2½ years and hasn't costed me much money to repair since I do it all myself.
But.. Since it's a toyota truck my 4 cylinder gets around 18mpg average and it washes out any savings I get from reliability and insurance. It's a single cab and needs a lot of money put into it to make it comfortable such as new seats and fixing the a/c.
Anyone else with a sturdy vehicle that has bad mpg's or is unpractical for whatever reason what's your reason you keep driving it? Should I just get a minivan or TDI and stop whining?
Zestyclose_Panda_886@reddit
I think most people use a car payment compared to repair bills for a litmus test.
Objective-Hotel6514@reddit
It's all about your personal goals and finances I think. Gas can be a flexible spending category to some degree and since you do the work/maintenance yourself I'd say keep the car.
Tbh you won't get much better mileage from a minivan, my 06 Sienna gets 22 mpg.
packerjj@reddit
You are living the good life. My 2006 Sienna gets 19 usually on average with a 50/50 mix of city and highway miles.
Objective-Hotel6514@reddit
Damn, I really am because I think I drive mostly city miles too.
Have you tried a bottle of cataclean? I put some in all my older/high mileage cars and it's done good for me
packerjj@reddit
Being from Chicago, the winter weather does not help. Also, a lot of my highway is heavy traffic, and my lead foot certainly doesn’t help.
Objective-Hotel6514@reddit
Haha well I can't offer any advice for all that. Sounds like she's holding up well though with wet/salty weather conditions
Upstairs-Result7401@reddit
You have to factor in cost of the vehicle vs miles driven
I drive a 73 C10 that get 15 city and 20 highway. I drive about 150 to 200 miles a week.
There is no truck that could replace what I got that won't kill me on payment. Then like cars these days will need a few thousand dollars of work at around 100,000 to 125,000 miles. Thusly keeping my truck cheaper except in the use of gas. As any usual repair to my truck i can do myself easily.
Fakeone040@reddit
This. My friends gawk at my 8mpg then complain how their car payment is so high and their cars go in the shop every few months. I pay less in fuel than they do just for their cars. They swear up and down they’re “saving money” by spending more than me.
Dinglebutterball@reddit
18… I get 10 and need 91.
Fix your junk and put a million miles on it.
Fakeone040@reddit
Both of my trucks need 91 and I get between 6 and 8 fml. For me that’s still cheaper than a new car though, and f build quality and parts cost on most things post 2010.
lumpiawrappers@reddit
Aaron is that you lol
Fakeone040@reddit
Kinda depends on how much you drive. My only vehicles are a 1969 Chevy C30 with a big block and overdrive transmission, and a 1970 Chevy half ton with a small block and no overdrive. In the 69 I average 8mpg unloaded and 6 towing. I can drive over 1200 miles/month before I spend in gas what someone would on the average new car payment, not including their insurance and fuel costs. I work from home, so my driving is groceries and errands, and occasionally a trailer full of hay. There’s absolutely no way I’d get a new car even if it got 100mpg because I can’t justify the payment.
If I were driving 100+ miles a day then I’d do the math and see how it works out. You should really crunch the numbers and see how you come out with your own details.
I’ll take your truck. All of my shit is 2wd and finding an intact truck to rob parts from for a 4wd conversion is difficult.
taidizzle@reddit
So you need to look at it this way. Transportation shouldn't cost more than 15% of your debt:income ratio
if you make a million then dont let your yearly expense pass 150k. if you make 150k dont let it pass 15k. If you make 15k dont let it pass 1.5k etc. etc.
that includes gas, insurance, maintenence, and repairs.
This is why most adults go to Japanese reliable cars in the states; math mathing
UnderTheFrozenSky@reddit
Ok lets say you double your MPG to 36 with a switch to a different car.
Gas prices vary place to place, lets say it is going to average $4 for the future.
Right now it costs you 22 cents per mile, without double MPG it would cost you 11 cents per mile. So you save 11 cents per mile by doubling your MPG.
So now the question is how much are you willing to spend on a car? If you get a $10k car, it would take you around 91k miles to "break even" assuming all other costs between the cars are the same. Will your insurance change with a different car? If it goes up even just $50 a month, that will add another 500 miles a month (6k a year) to your break even point.
In general it is almost never worth upgrading a car to save on gas costs. Most of the time the math never works out in favor of a new car purchase.
This isn't to say that it is a bad idea to get a different car. But the economics doesn't really favor you doing so to save money on gas.
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
That's not accounting for maintenance - he's mentioned busted AC, interior needs repaired / replaced You also have at those miles - worn out suspension, ball joints, tie rods and tie rod ends and more...
UnderTheFrozenSky@reddit
Any inexpensive replacement car is going to have similar (but unknown) issues. If he spends more money to get a newer car it just puts the break even point out further
RYDSLO@reddit
My uncle was spending $800 a month commuting in his v8 Tundra. He bought a civic for $450/mo that cost him $200/mo in gas. He kept both vehicles, so his insurance did go up. In the end, he didn't save any money vs just driving the Tundra, but he essentially got a "free" car to commute in and keep the miles off the Tundra.
Traditional-Tune7198@reddit
I have a 2007 mustang i drive 2 hours a day. I spend about $500 on gas 135 on insurance and let's say $50buc a month for maintenance. I do it all myself. So that $685 a month. If I sell this and buy a used tesla it will cost me out of pocket 15 grand. Insurance will be 250 gas will now be only about 100. Now saving 335 bux a month. Car paid back in 3.75 years. And then it makes me 335bucks a month. I put aside 150 per month of that in a high interest account and thats my battery fund incase anything happens. And ye live happily ever after. Even better get solar ND make ur own gas. All im saying is upgrading to an ev from ice is the way. Upgrading from ice to ice is never the way.
jules083@reddit
The math never works.
Interestingly enough it rarely works even if you do the math for a motorcycle. I have a few bikes, they get excellent fuel mileage, but there's zero financial reason to keep them.
The only way motorcycle math works is if you get a little scooter. Any full size bike is going to get roughly 50mpg, not enough to offset the purchase price. Also tires do not last nearly as long on most bikes. On most bikes you're lucky to get 5-7k miles out of a back tire, and if you have the bike shop change your tire you're in the neighborhood of $200-$300 just for the rear depending on what bike you're on.
Drop a fullsize Harley off at the dealer for tires plus oil change and it'll be around $1k.
DaChronisseur@reddit
To say nothing of insuring a young male motorcyclist.
alphawolf29@reddit
I have a 1100cc ktm and its mpg is almost identical to my hybrid corolla.
Bigrat445@reddit (OP)
Damn great way to put it. Definitely gonna write the math down
inaccurateTempedesc@reddit
This. I was able to pull it off, but that's because I was going from a 2014 Yukon XL to a 2010 Prius that was only $3800 lol
GearsAndSuch@reddit
This is what I was thinking. I saw "young" and thought, if I was in my 20's I would not be paying $10,000 for a car, I would be in the $500 to maybe $5000 bracket. A running taco is probably in that same bracket, OP would probably be in for minor repairs on the new car but the overall switch would be a wash.
acEightyThrees@reddit
That's a hell of a switch.
inaccurateTempedesc@reddit
Yeah the Yukon was my first car, it was a hand me down. I felt baller as fuck pulling into the high school parking lot, it was a little bit less baller in college when I had to actually pay for gas and maintenance 🤣
YD099@reddit
This is something Reddit and Caleb Hammer repeatedly teach.
Don't buy a new car for gas savings, even if it is an EV.
I, however, am looking to swap to a hybrid, not because of fuel savings, but because I want it🤣
WingZombie@reddit
This is the issue I see a lot. People have a want that they try to justify as a need. It’s okay to want something and buy it. It’s not okay to lie to yourself to justify a bad financial decision.
What hybrid are you looking at?
YD099@reddit
Civic.
Because it is an import here, plus wages are not as high as Japan, it is difficult for me to afford the Civic Hybrid that quickly
Tasty_Cod_7354@reddit
Your math isn't factoring how much he can sell his current car for though. Which probably isn't a lot but it should be factored in. If he buys a $10k car minus $3k for his current car then he only needs to make $7k in difference in pricing
Plus, his current car is likely to need some probably significant repairs in the near future based on what he is saying. He isn't just doing it for gas savings.
Apptubrutae@reddit
Just assume the math is a $10k differential then.
Tasty_Cod_7354@reddit
Why not just assume it's a $20k difference? Or a $50k difference? That way he will never recoup it and we can convince him to drive his half a million mile Tacoma forever.
UnderTheFrozenSky@reddit
He can calculate this cost based on whatever value he is willing to spend on the car. It is getting hard these days to get a well running car with 100k miles left in it for $10k however so I thought it was a good base.
human-in-a-can@reddit
This is a great answer. Unless you drive hundreds of miles a week for a job, just keep it until there’s a big repair that will cost over a thousand.
Or unless you land a well-paying job with lots of spare money and just want something nicer - which is still generally an impractical decision.
Live_Lychee_4163@reddit
When it can’t do what you need on a daily basis? I daily a small v8 manual German sedan that gets 16mpg, so I’m not a good role model lol.
Emergency_Tennis_167@reddit
Getting a new car for mpg is foolishness. Monthly car payment and insurance wipes out any savings. Maintenance for new cars are also higher due to increased labor and price of parts.
-_NaCl_-@reddit
Best advice I could give you would be to keep driving the Tacoma and put the car payment amount of money into a safe, boring investment account. Do this each month until you absolutely can't stand driving the Tacoma anymore. Then you should have enough to put a large down payment or possibly pay the full amount for a newer replacement vehicle. You would be paying this anyway if you bought a newer vehicle today, so if you can make that lifestyle change, you will absolutely benefit from it in the future.
polkastripper@reddit
You won't break even for a long time, and that's if gas prices stay high due for years to President Brain Damage. Pick up a cheap motorcycle if you want to save on gas money, but due to insurance, maintenance costs, etc., you'll lose money overall.
My advice is wait for this situation to cool off and just weather the higher prices in the short term.
philadelphia_fRee@reddit
18 mpg doesnt wipe out all the savings of buying a car with a payment though id start looking for another beater to buy in cash
VegaGT-VZ@reddit
Whatever you save on gas will get more than eaten up by the purchase price, unless you get a similarly old car which is gonna be a complete gamble.
You would really need to get something like a new hybrid on a killer lease deal and still come out ahead for this to make sense. And I dont know if 18 MPG is low enough for that
overheightexit@reddit
r/Unnecessaryapostrophe
Bigrat445@reddit (OP)
mpg's...
Tasty_Cod_7354@reddit
The 's is completely unnecessary. MPG is miles per gallon
Miles per gallons and miles per gallon's don't make sense.
Bigrat445@reddit (OP)
Yeah I know I was just pointing out the mistake
Consistent-Day-434@reddit
I always understood it as Miles Per Gallon... IE a single gallon of gas.
You generally don't measure how many gallons it takes for 100 miles. Instead you measure the distance a single gallon gets you.
Tasty_Cod_7354@reddit
Yeah, exactly. It's a rate, so there's no plurality with it, because it is fixed to the per singular gallon value.
Same reasons you wouldn't say miles per hours.
Apptubrutae@reddit
Mpg’s what?
ShitMcClit@reddit
Tacoma hypermiling
TrainDifficult300@reddit
Between the insurance, interest rates, and sticker price of upgrading your current car, I would just keep your tires well inflated, accelerate slower, and be more efficient about your daily trips to save on gas.
jckipps@reddit
My philosophy of vehicle ownership is that as long as the vehicle is kept rust-free, still meets your needs, and you can DIY the necessary repairs, there's never a case to be made for replacement.
I'm driving a 1992 van. Even if I swapped to a new van of equivalent size, I 'might' increase my fuel milage from 11.5 mpg to 15 mpg. That's not enough difference to justify buying something new, so I'll be keeping the old girl on the road for a few more decades yet.
htraenolleh666@reddit
And the insurance savings vs new as well.
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
Rust being a big problem anywhere the roads get salted, then at best you are only delaying not halting corrosion
Apptubrutae@reddit
Yeah, mileage just doesn’t justify a new car unless you drive an absolute ton.
GearsAndSuch@reddit
I daily drive a Volvo 740 5 miles to work. If I had to drive 30 miles I would be selling it. Easy to fix? Cheap to insure? Reliable enough? Yes and Yes and Yes. Fuel savings? Brick shaped.
Ok_Pipe_1365@reddit
Keep the truck and only use it for truck things and get a 2008-2012 Honda Accord with a 4 cylinder engine and automatic transmission.
elmo-1959@reddit
Instead of mpg think of dollars per mile to operate…I had a little g3 to get back and forth to work in… then one day a wheel fell off… cost to fix much more than a 16 year old car was worth…needed rack, control arms ,rotors and so on… I stopped counting at 2000…
toybuilder@reddit
Nearly 20 years ago, I had a coworker who had a long (insane, IMHO) distance commute to work. Bought a brand new Mini Cooper and the gas savings over his Suburban paid for the new car payment. (He kept his Suburban because it was paid off, and he needed it for his rural living lifestyle.)
I've seen a few people recently talk about getting an econobox for commuting. Depending on the how things pencil out, it actually might make sense. An inexpensive 2nd car will need insurance, of course, so that needs to be part of the calculation.
A used heavily depreciated EV can be had for under $4,000 -- sometimes closer to $1,000. As long as you can plug it in at home and it meets your range needs, the cost per mile can be quite low. At $0.33/kWh, it's about 8 cents per mile for most EVs (4 miles/kWh). If you live where electricity is cheap, like $0.10/kWh, that's 2.5 cents per mile. At 18 mpg, with $6 gas, that's 33 cents per mile. At $3 gas, that's still 16 cents per mile.
If you drive 50 miles a day, that's anywhere between $4 (16-8) to $15 (33-2.5) a day in fuel savings.
At 100 miles a day, that's $8 to $30 a day.
So, depending on where you land on the savings on fuel vs added insurance and cost of the vehicle, it might or might not make rational sense.
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
This is why ford should NOT have killed the fiesta and focus.....
If not for the truck/megabehemoth size arm's race, then offering an affordable model that's
"perfect for the city commute, so easy to park with ford park assistance as standard, front and rear cameras, great on gas, peppy mild hybrid drivetrain with new cityshift automatic transmission , standard satellite navigation with roadworks/construction zone awareness and automatic re-routing to help you avoid time wasted stuck in boring traffic jams, a range of trims including ST Line for those who want sporty handling but without sports car running costs, Active+ - built to handle even the roughest pot hole laden streets with raised ride height and higher sidewall tyres giving you a comfortable, quiet, ride quality so you arrive feeling calm and refreshed, also featuring Ford BuiltTough black polymer armor to protect your new Ford against dings and scrapes from those other careless motorists in parking lots, not to mention those errant shopping carts, keeping your new Ford looking good no matter."
"For those demanding drives from city to country, ford brings you the FIesta Raptor with all wheel drive with variable drive modes - tarmac, dirt, snow, mud, electronically adjustable ride height and damping, allowing you to switch from city to sporty to trail at the tap of a button, 2.0 turbo engine delivering snappy performance"
Or "is your teen about to get behind the wheel? Are you concerned about them getting in an accident? Are you skeptical about the safety of older vehicles and want something tested to the latest standards? Do you wince at the cost of used and poorly maintained cars? Well from only $$ biweekly with no money down, your local Ford dealer can put your teen in a new fiesta, gen Z / A on trend colours and features, 7 speaker sound system, air con as standard to keep things cool when driving lessons get heated, autonomous emergency braking, lane keeping assistance, fordpass online dashboard to give you an overview of your teens driving and highlight any areas of concern for your peace of mind, and all for one low biweekly worry free payment, Ford serving American motorists young and old since 19xx"
Shit I should write advertising copy lol 🤣
UncleSlayton77@reddit
It will take you a LONG, LONG time to break even in fuel savings by buying a newer car. Stick with the devil you know until something major happens with it. In the meantime start saving for a newer car so when that time comes you'll have a good down payment ready. Plus by doing that at a set amount every month you'll get a feel for what your new budget will feel like later.
OldeWorldWays@reddit
My tow vehicle is my 7.6L V8 bronco......offset by my faithful tdi wagon of the last 17 years.
10mpg vs 52mpg
One_Evil_Monkey@reddit
Stop whining.
Is the Toy Taco paid off? Yes.
Cheap to repair? Yes.
Useful for your needs? Yes.
Continue to own, drive, operate.
ajm91730@reddit
How much do you drive?
Bigrat445@reddit (OP)
Like 12k miles a year. Likely to double within a year or two
ajm91730@reddit
That's a good bit, but still, do the math.
12,000 /18 is 666.6. let's say fuel near you is $5 per gallon. That's $3,333 per year on fuel. $278 per month.
Now say you get a car that gets double that, 36 mpg. Your fuel cost becomes $1,666 per year. So can you find a 36 mpg car for the difference? Maybe.
Having 2 cars, it gets more complicated. You have double insurance, double maintenance. Double registration.
People focus on fuel expense because it's visible. But 1. It's never zero. Even a more efficient car still has fuel costs if you actually drive it. 2. For will take on huge debt and car payments to "save on fuel", when that car payment would have bought tons and tons of fuel.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
sarahenera@reddit
Plus known general maintenance and unknown/unplanned maintenance.
HowsMyBuddy@reddit
An “old 5-spd 4wd Tacoma” is already one of the most valuable vehicles out there, pound for pound. If you can work on it yourself, this is a million-mile truck. If you can swing it, get a small little used car with 30+ mpg just to keep the miles down on the Tacoma, if nothing else. But don’t get rid of that truck yet. They’re already working on federal mandates that put cameras in all new cars pointed at your face, with kill switch ability. You have bloodshot eyes from working a double? Car won’t start, assumes you are drunk.
Dieselfumes_tech@reddit
I have quite a few vehicles, but my daily driver since 2020 was a 2020 F250 diesel. Very high cost of ownership, maintenance is expensive. But I have needs that dictated this type of vehicle for my lifestyle.
I decided to try an EV, got a crazy deal on an id4 at $162/mo zero down and I can charge it for free at work. EV insurance is expensive, and my total cost of ownership became $250/mo.
Moral of the story, I’d keep driving your clapped out truck, it’s still cheaper in the long run.
At the end of the lease, I returned the car and bought a 98 ranger in cash for less than the total cost of the two year lease. I now daily drive that and it’s a 4cyl 5 speed that gets around 22mpg. But it’s dirt cheap to insure and register.
Sig-vicous@reddit
I think you're in the wrong sub. Car guys do not compare a Tacoma vs a minivan vs a TDI. Ever.
Parking_Abalone_1232@reddit
I have a 24 Prius prime XSE as my DD so I don't have to try and DD my 97 F350 diesel
HerefortheTuna@reddit
I upgraded my daily from my 1990 4Runner to a new to me 2014. I definitely feel safer with my infant in a modern car.
Apptubrutae@reddit
You wouldn’t just feel safer, you’d be quite a bit safer.
nickp123456@reddit
There two reasons to buy a car. The first reason is financial where the cost to repair could be higher than the value of the car, or the cost of an old car isn't that different from a new car. The second reason is not financial (although everyone has financial constraints) where there is a need for a reliable vehicle (young family and Highway trips), or a strong preference for current technology, or a need for current safety standards. Usually it's some combination of both reasons supporting the decision to move away from one vehicle and to another. Financially look at the total cost of ownership per mile/kilometer (depreciation, maintenance, insurance, gas).
u3b3rg33k@reddit
I think the "value of the car" factor only matters sometimes.
if you have a car you don't plan on keeping, it doesn't matter what it's value is, just the opportunity cost. reliability can be a red herring - history only means so much and luck/probability seems to be a factor, too. you can get dud new parts, or a newer car that has a defect that isn't well known.
_EnFlaMEd@reddit
I had a 3rz single cab Hilux which I loved. I ended up selling it due to a change of job where I was doing a lot more driving and bought a 2015 Mazda 2. It literally costs me half as much to run in fuel and has a 15,000km service interval. So instead of doing all my own maintenance and constantly chasing niggles, I pay for one service a year and that;s it. Never have to think about it the rest of the time.
I miss owning a cool ute, being able to go off road and pickup whatever I want whenever but for the other 90% of stuff the Mazda is so much better to live with.
LAM678@reddit
my daily is a tdi and i absolutely love driving it, it has low-end torque for days and the turbo sounds great, but it's probably not worth selling something you know is reliable over a (hopefully temporary) increase in gas prices
noladutch@reddit
Dude get over the mpg bullshit.
I drive a 96 f150 with a 300 six and a manual transmission. It gets 20 to 21 on the hwy. The best you can get with a new one is four mpg better.
To get those four mpg they had to make things complex and unreliably at that. A remanufactured ten speed costs as much as I paid for my whole truck.
So in essence my 35 to 40k buck cheaper truck gets 4 mpg less that comes to around 350 to 400 bucks more a year at 15k miles to drive or 30 bucks a month.
I will take 30 bucks more a month and not full coverage and no 800 to 1000 buck payment.
If you want something different get it.
But if you ever break down the cost of your rig in mpg it will never ever look worth it.
Guy2700@reddit
Hate to be that guy, but it’s “impractical”
osmiumblue66@reddit
When you can no longer rely on it to fulfill its stated purpose. If it's having chronic expensive oopsies, it's time to retire it.
Appropriate-Bell-807@reddit
Diesel is going to keep getting pushed out by electric so no TDI
Regardless, my dad made me think of the math of how long it would take even a motorcycle getting 50-100+mpg to pay for itself, several years at best. Small fuel efficiency gains take a long time to make it worth offset of and increase in insurance/car payment/maintenance on a newer or "more efficient" vehicle.
Since you have so many miles as it is it sounds like you can keep going for a while with that thing and honestly 18mpg avg is not bad imo. Used to drive a 2000s truck that read 10.4 avg when I sold it.
foolproofphilosophy@reddit
Gas is a lot less than a car payment and given the number of miles on the truck it’s probably worth about nothing. You’re solidly in “drive it into the ground” territory. Save money until your commute doubles, don’t buy anything before then.
mckenzie_keith@reddit
I have a 99 4wd extra cab tacoma. Also a 5 speed. It is pretty beat up. I have owned it since it was new. I will never sell it. But you are right about the fuel economy. I have even thought about trying to lower it or at least put in an air dam in the front.
Rough_Cancel7265@reddit
Something I'd recommend you do is add up the cost of repairs (not regular maintenance) and divide that number by the number of months you've owned it. See if that number is comfortable for you. I did this for someone with a 4th gen 4Runner. The math worked out that a $275 a month car payment would have broken even.
Opening-Ad8300@reddit
“Nahhh, make the Tacoma squatted with some bright LED underglow and pitch black window tint! That’ll make it sooo much better to drive, and make it worth the gas price” /s
Do you need a truck/really want a truck? Then stick with what you got and watch your gas pedal usage, or perhaps look into an older Ford Ranger (I’m pretty sure the 80s era ones got like an average of 14-15 MPG, though I might not be correct. Look into on your own as always.)
Don’t need a truck? Get yourself an I4 car, something light and as usual; go easy on the gas pedal.
Fun-Bathroom8103@reddit
To me, it only becomes unpractical when you stop enjoying it. I have a 92 toyota hilux with no AC thats miserable to drive in the summer, slow, and not fuel efficient. I also have a GR Corolla that’s an arm and a leg to insure, and even worse on gas (premium only to top it off!). But, I am by all accounts a “car guy” and that means I’m willing to make those sacrifices to drive cars that I love.
If I were you- I’d get a dieslegate TDI as a daily- but do NOT sell that truck. At 540k you wont get much out of it even with the Toyota tax, but you’ll be missing that old 5spd pretty quick if youre anything like me.
All of this is space dependent though, not everyone is blessed with enough space for two cars.
Bigrat445@reddit (OP)
The smiles per gallon is a real metric imo. Hiluxes and GR's do well in that aspect. Space is a big problem unfortunately. In an ideal world I'd have an 03 vw tdi and the taco but I'll have to figure it out when my commute gets longer.
Unlucky_Employee6082@reddit
When I realized it was costing me $14 a day in gas and bridge toll for the right to go to work.