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fatmanyolo@reddit

Scalding hot take: I have such a tough time feeling sorry for guys that took the “pilot shortage” narrative as gospel with little to no research and are now seeing what the industry is actually like.

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Kandranos@reddit

God forbid people follow their dreams.

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brucebrowde@reddit

There's a difference between a dream and a pipe dream.

It's far from being an aviation-only phenomenon. Some try with poker. Some try with stock market. Some try with multi-level marketing. Some try with lottery.

Feel free to chase your dream and I hope you make it, but don't try to make me sorry for you for not realizing it's a pipe dream from the start.

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Connortbh@reddit

We're just trying to get a job we've been deemed capable of by examiners to teach people to fly a plane until we can fly a bigger one, not trying to make it in the NHL.

[-]

That's a false dichotomy. There's no "ordinary job" vs "exclusive job" distinction that makes "ordinary jobs" automatically easy to get hired for. The job market doesn't work like that. It never has and it never will.

What you want doesn't matter. The skills or certificates you have don't matter. Whether you're applying to your local mom & pop shop or leading companies in the world doesn't matter.

Literally the only thing that matters is supply and demand at the moment you're applying for. There's a lot of luck involved because supply and demand changes based on a bunch of factors (timing, location, who you know, your age, sex, religion, race, how you present yourself, whether you have a family, etc.) but it's still supply and demand in it's core.

Currently, there are way too many CFIs and way too few positions to be filled in. That drives wages down and makes it hard to get hired. It's a race to the bottom. Unfortunately for current and wannabe CFIs, I don't see that getting better any time soon, if ever.

I'd love everyone to work their dream jobs, but matters zilch as well. It's very harsh, but ignoring that reality makes your dreams nothing more than pipe dreams. The sooner you realize it's a pipe dream, the better.

That won't stop people from trying and good for anyone that makes it, but way too many will be miserable for a long time chasing that pipe dream. If that's how you want it, then nothing wrong with that, but calling it a dream or complaining it's not working for you is misguided.

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coldnebo@reddit

boy I really used to buy that “follow your bliss” crap.

first I wanted to be a game developer, then I wanted to be an animator at Disney.

then I had friends who went into those careers and saw how thousands of idealistic kids were sold on endless hours of “deathmarch” production schedules, told to sacrifice their families and free time for peanuts while the studios raked in millions.

there is a large swath of destruction in those industries that is constantly fed by the hopes and dreams of young people. it should be criminal, but in corporate America it’s just business.

aviation should count itself lucky that there are psychological limits and safety culture stopping corporations, otherwise they would push towards “deathmarch” work schedules here too. they are already demanding more hours for ATC.

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NakedRaincoat@reddit

Getting downvoted by people who thought they’d be at Delta 3 years after starting at ATP

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BetAdministrative726@reddit

Many did.

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fatmanyolo@reddit

I will die on this hill

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BetAdministrative726@reddit

There still is a healthy amount of hiring going on, but not enough that everyone will get hired right away like it was back in 2022-2024. Its more competitive now and those that distinguish themselves are the ones who will get jobs.

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flyingforfun3@reddit

Take my upvote.

They are salty. Just wait and see who lasts the downturn. Jobs come and go, if you love flying you’ll stay. If you did it because an influencer sold you on top tier pay, good luck.

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Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit

Just be careful with this. Remember, guys doing this for the love of the game was the reason regionals paid food stamp wages for as long as they possibly could. I was in this subreddit when Great Lakes closed up, and hearing those stories made me glad I wasn't in yet.

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flyingforfun3@reddit

The guys who got into it for the money are just as able to take less than stellar paying jobs to pay off their 100k at 10% APR loans. I might even argue more desperate..

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit (OP)

The pay they sold was second. Being able to copy a CRAFT clearance via voice instead of data was first.

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Markaronrunt@reddit

Let people post. Feel free to skip the ones you don’t want to read.

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit (OP)

See my note about the megathread. Consolidate it monthly. Let people convene there to post

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Markaronrunt@reddit

See my note about skipping the posts you don’t want to read.

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit (OP)

That’s cool dude I appreciate your feedback

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brucebrowde@reddit

That's your solution, which I don't see anything wrong with, but I don't see anything wrong with their solution either.

See the post you don't like? Smash that back button, you don't even have to like or dislike or subscribe, go to the next post, spend more time glued to reddit. It's not that complicated.

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chonky348@reddit

I can't read im too busy can you find me a job opening for a cfi near central florida

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Rightrudder74@reddit

Willing to travel 2nm. Oh. And no 430 garbage. G1000 only

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__joel_t@reddit

Preferably a Vision Jet, but willing to train with SR-22 G7 and later.

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit (OP)

Best I can do is Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit course

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EnthusiasmHuman6413@reddit

You guys took a course?

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit (OP)

Yea there’s homework, a seating chart, and everything.

I got 3x detentions and an in-school suspension for fighting during mine

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EnthusiasmHuman6413@reddit

See That’s the kind of experience I needed. I just paid money and feel completely unqualified to operate a radiotelephone. If I’m being perfectly honest I don’t even know what a radiotelephone is! Probably why I have the restricted and not the unrestricted. I really need an instructor to berate me to drive the learning home.

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EmotioneelKlootzak@reddit

Best I can do is an unpaid internship cleaning the toilets at KSAA

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Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit

networking.

Make sure to make them aware you put in fresh urinal cakes.

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Mithster18@reddit

fresh urinal cakes with a strong handshake

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Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit

Was thinking Donnie from Ted 2

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Computerized-Cash@reddit

Yeah probably

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Kandranos@reddit

Disagree, removing someone's shout for help before flight loan collectors come barreling down onto them seem unnecessary. Its also a good way to keep two fingers on the job flow.

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit (OP)

I’m sympathetic to them. They got sold a bag of coal. It really does suck.

But at this point it’s like 900 people in the water splashing around the Titanic telling me they’re cold.

I get it. I get that it sucks. But everyone is cold. We can have the conversation in a more productive manner.

Or Rose can get off the door. One or the other.

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Pheighthe@reddit

Rose had higher body fat and would have lasted longer, she should have given him the door.

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit (OP)

Rose and Jenny are looking up at us from hell.

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KBC@reddit

You better not be a sleazebag ATP who got hired in the 2021 waves.

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit (OP)

Sleazebag, yes Hired in 2021, no

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wuzcoo@reddit

There’s two types of people in this sub. Those who are chasing the market and those who’ve made it. Your account is 4 months old and I see all them achievements you’ve got, maybe go touch some grass if you can’t handle a few questions?

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ALTSCAP_ALTS_ALT@reddit

Ok question to everyone, what is "good" content on this sub?

I can't find a CFI job

I can't find a regional job

I'm at a regional, will a legacy hire me?

How much did you make this month? (comments include: legacy pilot making 100k a month, CFI making 2k a month, "you guys are getting paid?", "laughs in Canadian" etc)

DPE gauge

I have x check ride failures (comments include "you should quit" if talking about persisting, "lmao quitter" if taking about quitting)

Got my PPL/IR/CPL

Here is my new Bonanza/Baron/Vision jet

Any posts I missed?

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Big_Assignment5949@reddit

Dont sleep on "so I made a mistake and I was pulled over for speeding. Will this affect my hireability?"

In the comments, reveal they blew a 0.25 and were in possession of cocaine.

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EmotioneelKlootzak@reddit

I can't remember if it was here or somewhere else, but there was a guy on reddit suing the federal government because they wouldn't issue a certificate/license due to "a conviction from some mistakes when I was young."

Everybody just assumed it was marijuana or underage drinking thing because that's how he kept phrasing it, but it was eventually revealed that it was a murder he pled down to manslaughter somehow and spent years in prison for.

The whiplash was unreal.

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lordtema@reddit

The cocain was only found AFTER the refused to blow, and blood work revealed a 0.32..

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Ok-Technician-2905@reddit

I’d prefer if there were a separate r/flying_careers sub so that this one could focus on actual flying (including GA, which had been mostly loss).

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YKRed@reddit

I requested /r/pilots be split back off but Reddit ignored my /r/redditrequest.

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poisonandtheremedy@reddit

Feel free to post on r/GeneralAviation

We could use more good content.

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Kandranos@reddit

What does focus on actual flying even mean?

"I flew 20 miles for a burger today. It was fun!!?!"

I care infinitely less about that then someone looking to find a job.

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Ok-Technician-2905@reddit

Sounds like a separate career-oriented sub would make both of us happy then.

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ThereIsYourProblem@reddit

My favorite is the “I have active warrants in 19 states, 3 DUIs, I’m on the TSA no fly list , but I was pardoned by T-Bag for the J6 stuff… what are my chances at a major?

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aguyfrom208@reddit

And it’s always like “Not very good, basically zero, but I know a guy who t-boned a cop car after eighteen drinks and is also secretly DB Cooper and he’s a captain at United so who knows”

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StalinsPimpCane@reddit

Yeah Jim, he’s great

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Worried-Ebb-1699@reddit

Oooh. I got excited to read that shit storm post… then I realized you were kidding :(

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ImmortanBen@reddit

I feel like when I first started visiting this sub back in 2016, there were a lot more posts about general aviation. Seaplanes, warbirds, cool trips, etc.

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Twarrior913@reddit

Forgot “i am from a 3rd world country, if I sign my life away will I be able to get a visa to fly in USA?”

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irishluck949@reddit

Or how about “can anyone recommend me the best school in my country?” And doesn’t even say what that country is

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit (OP)

It’s not that it’s “bad” content. It’s that it’s “heavily redundant” content.

We need to consolidate to either a monthly megathread or one person’s post.

That balances the ability of the sub to help without being overrun with the same doom post every 3-4 hours

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Honey-Entire@reddit

I don’t get your downvotes, but I’m a software dev trying to transition to a career in flying and my experience with the sub aligns with yours.

The job market in flying doesn’t change weekly but we get daily posts about how hard it is to find a job. Pay is easily searchable information on Airline Pilot Central but people are still asking. The number of “is it worth switching/starting” posts is comical

The answers are always the same with very little variance. Moderating the posts to be less redundant would have the added benefit of being able to engage with meaningful posts because the meaningful posts wouldn’t be swamped with the slop

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MinimumMammoth9920@reddit

Touch grass and you won’t even notice any of that shit

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PlanetMcFly@reddit

Just skip post that don’t interest you. At least those posts have to do with flying, or at least building a career flying. It may not apply to you, but it clearly applies to a number of pilots.

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SSMDive@reddit

I disagree. I'd rather people know what the market is doing rather than buy into the propaganda from flight schools trying to sell 100K+ programs to people.

One of the largest problems we have had is people didn't know that the job demand is cyclic and jobs have historically been very difficult to get.

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AlexJamesFitz@reddit

Reddit has a built-in mechanism to surface "good" posts and devalue "bad" ones. Just downvote the content you don't want to see, and let the community decide.

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sennais1@reddit

Don't dare mention that there are other ways to build hours than being a CFI in those threads.

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120SR@reddit

I just flew with a captain that told some kids “nowadays it’s easy to become a pilot with the shortage and all” I wish I could show them this post

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KindaJaded@reddit

It’s up to you to set him straight. He’s clearly out of touch.

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PlaneShenaniganz@reddit

Main character syndrome much? Downvote and move on with your life.

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pls_call_my_base@reddit

Let people post. I genuinely would not know how tough the market is for new CFIs if I didn't see these posts, and they may serve to dissuade some low-motivation folks from getting started with training and wasting money on something they were sold as a sure thing.

Bottom line, this topic is relevant to pilots. If it's not relevant to you personally, that's ok. If it bothers you that it's not relevant, you may be spending too much time online. Log off and go... do something outside.

Otherwise, it's not hard to find other topics on here that you may find relevant.

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit (OP)

I’d agree if someone could tell me the unique objective of each individual post. When it’s multiple each day, at what point is this just a sub of people screaming into the dark rather than having a productive conversation.

See my point about about the megathread r\NFA does for their approvals. They were getting multiple posts about people complaining about wait times. They consolidated it and it’s 100x more productive.

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LADR_Official@reddit

or you could downvote and move on?

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pls_call_my_base@reddit

And I would agree with you if this topic was clogging up the board. It's not. There are dozens (or more?) of posts a day here. And the posts on this topic get good engagement, which further refutes your argument that they are irrelevant or redundant.

I would suggest having some empathy and just not engaging.

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Connortbh@reddit

Ruthless. People can't find a job, can't talk about it with someone, can't come here for a sanity check/encouragement. Hard not to feel despondent about it all. I get it, it's probably annoying if you've "got yours" and I wouldn't make a post like that but it's tough out here.

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LADR_Official@reddit

same vibe as airlineapps boomer sending out an email to randomly kick people while they're down lol

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dopexile@reddit

Is it not beneficial for people to understand the truth? I mean we got people spending $150,000 a year to go to ATP and embry-riddle. At least they should be educated going into it with eyes wide open understanding what they are signing up for.

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Physical-Program-509@reddit

Hey don’t want to go against any narratives, it’s a great market out there don’t be a doomer!

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8636396@reddit

Yeah, imagine coming to a discussion forum to discuss something. The audacity!

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BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit

How many sanity checks are required every day? ARE WE SAIN YET?

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EnthusiasmHuman6413@reddit

I think it’s 3 per person.

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BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit

Per week?

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Fulcrum58@reddit

“How dare you ask aviation questions in the flying community”

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BandicootNo4431@reddit

Can they read the other 5 posts a day of people into heir exact situation getting a sanity check?

It's the same advice, because they're in the same situation.

They aren't bringing any new information to the table to be discussed

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TxAggieMike@reddit

And then there are folks like me and Chico Marx who do not believe in a sanity clause.

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hoosier_cub_driver@reddit

Dude if you're coming to reddit looking for a sanity check you're gonna have a bad time

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Flavor_Nukes@reddit

I like the 300 hr fresh commercial posts who want a lear sic job. Its pure entertainment in the comments

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AlbiMappaMundi@reddit

"But I'm the only person ever who isn't interested in being a CFI!"

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More_Drummer_3933@reddit

“Respect to all the cfis out there but teaching just isn’t for me”

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aguyfrom208@reddit

“Yeah it’s not for most CFI’s so the trick is to make sure the DPE can’t tell”

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cptnpiccard@reddit

"I just have to time build to 500, then I'll be marketable."

Seriously heard this from a guy this week, while I was out there hitting every school in a 100 mile radius asking if they had an opening.

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Dbeaves@reddit

They dont like hard truths here. They started with no respect for the industry and expected to be at Delta by now, give them a break😅

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Spiderkeegan@reddit

I dunno, I kinda like those "can't get hired" posts just for the occasional one that presents itself as if they have a perfect resume and must just be doing something wrong in the interviews and then, 50 comments of digging deeper later, they reveal they have 5 checkride failures and 2 felonies.

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Worried-Ebb-1699@reddit

Or you could… just not click on it? Repetitive? Sure. But what good is seeking guidance or support if you can’t discuss it?

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Stocksonnablock@reddit

A nice warm welcome to the Industry!

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85inchweener@reddit

Recommendation for anyone that’s not a CFI- do all, or MOST of your training at a school that is likely to hire you. Hint, if you’ve flown there, typically your odds of getting hired is significantly more than if you haven’t. I’m a CFI CFII that got my job interview within 2 months because I applied for the job at the place I mainly flew at. And this is another advantage of not going to a “fast track” program. But I’m not berating anyone that did a fast track earlier before the CFI job market collapsed. I’m talking about those that CAN make a change.

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More_Drummer_3933@reddit

This^ Got a CFI job in SoCal, specifically because I did all my training at the school, with the exception of my CFI and II

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85inchweener@reddit

Same I went elsewhere for my CFI & CFII. They definitely understand bc scheduling in my area (and I’m sure for the rest of the country) for CFI examiners are tough.

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21MPH21@reddit

I mean ya could just skip over the "offending" posts, right?

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fortinbrass1993@reddit

🍿

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derdubb@reddit

How about if you don’t like something you see on the internet, you put your big boy pants on and keep scrolling?

Like who fucking cares actually. Let people vent.

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Clumsymax@reddit

How quickly the conversation goes from please will anyone hire me. To every 135 is terrible and no one should ever work there.

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Cessnateur@reddit

If we're suggesting megathreads, I'd like to formally request a monthly megathread for DPE gouge.

Those posts are quite valuable, but only to a tiny subset of the sub. Each one is specific to only one small area (relative to the sub's reach), and among all the users in that area, it pertains only to a small handful.

To the rest of us, the threads are nothing more than visual clutter. They don't ruin the overall experience or anything, but a monthly thread would clean up that clutter and make the sub a little cleaner and easier to use.

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EliteEthos@reddit

I understand the need to want to remove them. I agree.

However.

It’s nice to be able to kind of check in and use the sub as pulse for what I going on in the hiring side of flying.

Is there a way to have an ongoing, pinned topic that people can get directed to instead of repeat, similar posts? It’s a place where people can get up to date info, maybe vent a bit but not clog up the main sub.

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit (OP)

See the above recommendation. Similar to r/nfa and their monthly megathread of approvals.

We implement a monthly CFI hiring thread with people getting hired. direct people to that instead

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EliteEthos@reddit

I dig it

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Final_Ad_5044@reddit

While annoying, the comments do give me minutes worth of entertainment daily

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EnthusiasmHuman6413@reddit

And why aren’t the airlines hiring me….

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RaiseTheDed@reddit

Maybe make a wiki post/pinned post to divert them to?

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flyingforfun3@reddit

Heres a few articles that show how far we have come, and a way of life that could come back.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pilots-on-food-stamps_b_319929

https://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2014/02/12/flying-your-plane-living-on-food-stamps/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/11/pilot-exhausting-hours-wages

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RaiseTheDed@reddit

That's a great reminder for those new in the industry.

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flyingforfun3@reddit

It really wasn’t that long ago. I expected to be poor as hell but got lucky meeting the right people. The market is great today, but only lasts so long.

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x4457@reddit

It's already there, I wrote it just under 2 years ago.

https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/1dve5ow/state_of_the_industry_a_catchall_post/

Nobody reads it.

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BandicootNo4431@reddit

Automod redirect?

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RaiseTheDed@reddit

Oh yeah, I do remember that now...

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AviatorCrafty@reddit

Who has time to read that? I’m too busy looking for a CFI job /s

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No_Advice_9017@reddit

get your CFII and MEI and stop bitching! I didn’t start sending out apps until I got all 3 and received a job offer with one week of finishing my training

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VileInventor@reddit

I’ve gotten a few different leads from interacting with people on reddit. That said, if anyone here has any contacts or is in the guard i’d love to talk. Officer and doing it for the next 40 years of my life sounds awesome.

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bootyhole_licker69@reddit

people do it cause they’re desperate and kinda panicking man, flying jobs are rough now

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Former_Farm_3618@reddit

Yup. This is industry is either booming or tanking. Gotta ride it out and just go with it.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

This sub is getting multiple posts/day regarding people that are surprised that they’re having trouble finding a CFI gig (market is saturated, called everywhere, etc).

Would urge these individuals to at least search the last week of posts on this sub to understand it’s the industry-wide standard at this point.

We get that you’re frustrated, but posting the same story that we’ve seen countless times isn’t going to change the story.

Additionally, petition to auto remove posts about “I have 300 hours and looking for a jet SIC opening somewhere near my house. I don’t want to CFI”

Please downvote this comment until it collapses.

Questions about this comment? Please see this wiki post before contacting the mods.

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