Do Albanian Muslims actually buy a Christmas tree and call it a "New Year's Tree" ??
Posted by iswhhrxi@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 229 comments
og video - alketagshi on tiktok
Ill_Chicken550@reddit
My Bosnian side of the family does this lmao.
Ha55aN1337@reddit
Whole Yugoslavia used to do this. And we had father winter instead of santaclause. It was a communist thing.
iswhhrxi@reddit (OP)
EVERYONE did this??? Wow! That's interesting. :D
but why do entire Balkans call it "New Year's tree" if I may ask?
furyca@reddit
We do that too in Turkey.
Ecce_Homo___@reddit
Here is why
No-Tomatillo-9217@reddit
We are asking you why do you call it a Christmas Tree?
What does a tree have to do with Christmas?
ippleing@reddit
It's a pagan thing from long ago, pulled into Christianity, like Easter eggs and bunnies.
Nothing at all to do with Christmas, in fact, nobody knows exactly when Christ was born.
Veilchengerd@reddit
It's a german tradition from the 16th century that got popular in the anglosphere (and after that in the rest of the world) thanks to Albert von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha, prince consort to queen Victoria.
cokywanderer@reddit
I internally just believed it would be associated with the Solstice (yeah, it's about 2 days later but I just figured they weren't very accurate back then). And the Solstice also marks the beginning of the new year. The tree was there to "encourage" mother nature (insert whatever God you want here) to give them back the days that were slowly "dying" before the solstice.
And wouldn't you know it... The tree worked! Right after, because they did this pagan ritual and of course for no other reason, mother nature listened and started giving them back their days.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
Greece doesn't.
it's "χριστουγεννιάτικο δέντρο" lol.
Late_Secret3480@reddit
Εμείς κανονικά το καραβάκι είχαμε
Cookiesend@reddit
Ποιοι εμείς ρε καραβοκύρη; Έχεις δει τα βουνά που παίζουν στο ελλαντα;
Late_Secret3480@reddit
Με τις μεγαλύτερες ακτογραμες παγκοσμίως κατι θα ξέρουν από καραβάκια
Cookiesend@reddit
Η γεωγραφία έχει ποικιλία στην Ελλάδα! Surprise!!!
Mijiale_VII@reddit
Καραβάκι στα νησιά και στα μικρασιατικά παράλια. Στα ενδότερα στόλιζαν Χριστόξυλο πριν να έρθει το δέντρο στα μέρη μας.
Late_Secret3480@reddit
Παραδόσεις της εκάστοτε περιοχής ...
nikolapc@reddit
Well you weren't communist. Almost, but you had to go with the Brits and now half of Greece is in their museums.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
England alliance "helped" us liberate the rest of Greece.
nikolapc@reddit
Communism. Basicly the gift givings of Christmas and Dedo Mraz moved to New Years. Xmas tree comes from the Yule tree and from the west, idk when it made it to the Balkans but it was made into a New Years tree. Still is. We didn't send Xmas cards we sent New Years cards. But at least Dedo Mraz was the one from Coca Cola, not the Russian one.
The Slovenians have all 3, St. Nick and the other two, don't know if they did under communism.
GrgaPrticRomanul@reddit
Romanian, same. Moș Nicolae (6 decembrie), Moș Crăciun (25) and Moș Gerilă (new year).
nikolapc@reddit
When did you guys switch xmas to the 25th? There's a few of us holdouts for the Julian calendar, hope they update it some day.
GrgaPrticRomanul@reddit
I think we kept Christmas on the 25th when those two weeks in October went missing. The last calendar switch? Sometimes in the 1910's?
nikolapc@reddit
Hm you may be unique in the Orthodox world. Most of the churches did not adopt the Gregorian or it's orthodox version, some did so much later like Bulgaria and Greece. Ukraine quite recently(to distance itself from Russia).
GrgaPrticRomanul@reddit
I rigged a bit, and found this article. It's in Romanian, but it's a starting point. Basically the earliest would be 1923, and I've found a couple of articles in Romanian press from 1929 that place Christmas on the 25th. So sometimes between 1923 and 1929, Christmas in Romania started being alligned with the new calendar.
https://ro.orthodoxwiki.org/Calendarul_iulian_revizuit
Otherwise-Drawer-169@reddit
I think that mos Gerilă ( old man blizzard) was used instead of Santa, not a name for the new years eve.
GrgaPrticRomanul@reddit
Yes. But we used all 3 of them.
IK417@reddit
In institutions like schools and kindergartens. But inside the families, unless one of the parents was a fanatic communist there were the three old men(Moși): Nicolae, Crăciun și Gerilă.
Otherwise-Drawer-169@reddit
We were still saying Santa at home, but school or kindergarten, ur wright... mos Gerilă. But in my family there were only 2, Santa and Nicolae.
xlondelax@reddit
I think we did, at least I remember St.Nick.
ZhenDeRen@reddit
tbf Russian Ded Moroz has gotten indistinguishable from Coca Cola Santa (or at least it was the case before 2022 – I still tear up watching the "holidays are coming" commercial in Russian)
nikolapc@reddit
But our communist Dedo Mraz was in red. Not decked out like the Russian one. Probably symbolic of us being influenced by both east and west.
ZhenDeRen@reddit
We do it in Russia because Christmas was banned by the Soviets but people had nostalgic memories so most of the secular traditions were transferred to New Year's. And since we celebrate Christmas on the 7th of January, the week between New Year's Eve and the 8th is the peak of the holiday season (and it's super convenient for my family because my grandma's birthday is the 3rd and my mom's is the 8th)
PerspectiveFull9879@reddit
"Christmas was banned by the Soviets" - no it wasn't, if your family wanted to celebrate Christmas, no one was stopping you.
Was someone arrested for celebrating Christmas? Are there court cases you can cite?
Veilchengerd@reddit
You have to keep in mind that for about half of the Christians in the region, Christmas is two weeks later than for the other half. If you have both Catholics and Orthodox in your country, having the big consumerism party right in the middle makes sense.
munchmills@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice?wprov=sfla1
Zajebann@reddit
Because thats what it always was before Christianity.. it was to commemorate winter, and new year.. it had nothing to do with Christianity..
Majorman_86@reddit
Not Everyone because Greeks don't and didn't do this. But there are 2 aspects to it:
Communism: small PP dictators tried to ban any religion because Jesus/Allah and Buddha mess up with their own cult of personality. How can you be Supreme Leader if God stands above you? Secondary benefit is that atheism would really help unity in multinational states like Yugoslavia.
There are Orthodox states that still selebrate Christmas in January (it Jan 7th I think). So, for them New Year's Eve predates Christmas. So they decorate the tree for New Year's Eve as it comes first. The reason for Christmas is that some Orthodox churches still use the Julian calendar. Greeks, Bulgarians and Romanians (I think) celebrate Christmas on December 25, but Serbs and Russians (and probably Macedonians) don't. Orthodoxy allows the coexistence of national churches with their own Patriarchs, so keeping holidays in line is impossible.
nikolapc@reddit
In the case of Yugoslavia, atheism wasn't really that much promoted. And religion not that suppressed. Rural areas were very much religious, but even in the cities it was present. It was just seen as a backwards way of thinking by the Marxists. Slavas was still a thing, Christmas and Easter still a thing, I was born in the 80s and christened, and Tito's trademark saying was "for the mother of god" lol.
ImpactX1244@reddit
cause some of us dont celebrate christmas
Sensitive-Mango7155@reddit
Yep we used to do this
vladedivac12@reddit
In ex - yu, three religions with different holiday dates + communist influence. Celebrating New Year's instead of religious holidays was inclusive (Tito was woke /s).
Gardares@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree#1935_to_present
Because soviets promoted New Year instead of Christmas.
Waste-Set-6570@reddit
Yes it was mostly based on secularising existing traditions
SEND_ME_FAKE_NEWS@reddit
We called him babagjyshi which literally translated to 'daddy grandpa'
Cali-Re@reddit
Babagjyshi and Babadimri, the first one sounds a lot more hilarious when translated
SEND_ME_FAKE_NEWS@reddit
Haha yes that's why I went with that one, the other one is just really straightforward
HotIron223@reddit
Literally translated yeah that's what it means, but a more accurate translation would be something like grand-granpa or similar. It means an elder grandparent.
MarrAfRadspyrrgh@reddit
Sounds like a porn category
blodskaal@reddit
It's not a communist thing. It's pagan mythos.
Ha55aN1337@reddit
Everything comes from pagan mythos. But there was already christmas before communism…
blodskaal@reddit
Winter solstice is where grandFather Ice (Дедо Мраз) comes from was my point. It's not because Communism. It's also disingenuous to call Yugoslavia a communist entity. As it wasn't that. Very different from what neighbors and the Soviet Union were experiencing.
Fromage_rolls@reddit
Novoletna jelka vs božična smreka.
-Against-All-Gods-@reddit
Grandfather Frost*
vbd71@reddit
Дед Мороз.
cile1977@reddit
Bringing a tree into the home for the winter solstice isn’t originally a Christian custom. People continued the tradition after becoming Christians, and the church accepted it because they didn’t want to lose followers and money.
equili92@reddit
In Herzegovina we called him grandpa frost (djeda mraz)
Ujemegaz@reddit
Baba Dimri is an ancient pagan figure.
Citaku357@reddit
Wait really?
Ujemegaz@reddit
Lene se e ngaterrova, ne mendje kisha Baba Tomorrin. Mesa lexova Baba Dimri eshte perkthim i Santa Klausit.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Lene se e ngaterrova, ne mendje kisha Baba Tomorrin. Mesa lexova Baba Dimri eshte perkthim i Santa Klausit.
phantomkh@reddit
Same in Mongolia, we call it winter gramps
OveHet@reddit
Used to? Still does, lol (Serbia)
NinoRasic@reddit
Nope, croatians catholics never did this
PurpleMclaren@reddit
Dedo Mraz
Frankie-Felix@reddit
Grandpa Frost / Deda Mraz
Excellent-Beach-4815@reddit
Albania was no Yugoslavia
WarmLeg7560@reddit
Gayyyy
tiga_94@reddit
brough to you by stalin
v4f3@reddit
Same in Kosovo, Babadimer - father winter :)
EnthusiasmOk1543@reddit
I believe this is done in the Soviet Union as well
Dapper-Meringue-8044@reddit
We still do this but we are Jewish living in America. My wife was a child refugee of the Soviet Union.
CostinTea@reddit
Yes. We still do. The New Year's Tree, and "Father Winter" (Santa Claus). We've somehow successfully laicised Christmas to be New Year's Eve, or non-specific end of year holiday.
Source: used to be Muslim, my whole family is Muslim. Lived around Catholics my whole life.
randomcvnt114@reddit
It's the same in Bosnia and many other countries. And it cannot be a Christmas tree since literally the holiday in question is stolen, it's called Jól (but let's use the word "absorbed" so nobody gets triggered ). And the tree on top of that isn't Christian as well. Ancient peoples ( Egyptians, Romans, and Celts ) used evergreen boughs to decorate their homes during the winter. It served as a reminder that life would return and that the " Sun God " was recovering from the darkness.
So, yes. People actually take a fuhh ahh tree and put it inside of their house regardless of religion here, not because of the birth of someone that most likely didn't even exist but for fun.
Ilkin0115@reddit
Same 🇦🇿
Advanced_Main8890@reddit
Not a Christmas tree. Hardcore Christians will tell you this is a pagan tradition
Taliskerhu@reddit
Never paused to think Turks or communist unbeliever Yugoslavs did or didn't set up Christmas trees.
So Turks do put up Christmas trees in their homes (under a different name) with baubles, decorations etc? But call it New Years tree?
auroralemonboi8@reddit
Yes, in turkey, not every household does it, but almost everyone i know does. I did it too with my family before i moved out.
Giving gifts is always fun, and decorating a tree is a fun activity for the whole family.
AstronomerFederal117@reddit
Is this a tradition common throughout turkey or only in certain regions or a class of people?
More_Ad_5142@reddit
Well no study was done on its prevalence but many people do it and sonetimes even conservative households do it for children’s sake. As for public decorations, many shops and shopping malls will put up trees and decorations. In fact we outright call Santa Claus as “Noel Baba”.
Advanced_Main8890@reddit
In orthodox tradition the " equivalent saint" of Santa Claus is a saint that was an archbishop from Keyseri Cappadocia
tatariko@reddit
You can see it commonly throughout Turkey, with some places not participating and calling it heresy. Overall, in western Turkey it's a pretty common tradition, and while I was growing up I almost saw no one without a decorated tree in the new years eve.
Advanced_Main8890@reddit
Does it depend on which city are you staying? And I guess it's more common for middle class - rich households ?
Taliskerhu@reddit
Interesting. I suppose the.prevalence of decorating will run along middle class/urban - poorer/rural lines, not so religious - very religious.
Do you do the whole Christmas thing too,. without the name? Putting up Christmas lights at home, watching Home Alone type movies, jingle bell music etc.
bodhiquest@reddit
Non-religious/state radio stations often play Christmas music and at least in my family we put lights on the tree. Definitely a middle class and above urban thing though.
Funnily enough, even my paternal grandmother, who's a devout Muslim but of the old guard urban variety (liberalized to a large extent and educated), loves putting up a Christmas tree and some decorations in her house. This behavior is a relic of older, much better times for Turkey.
Rich_Plant2501@reddit
Maybe they didn't believe in Christmas trees? Nonetheless, for Serbs and Macedonians Christmas is two weeks after Gregorian Christmas, decorating a tree before New Year and calling it a Christmas tree would be wrong. For Muslim, it would make even less sense.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Homestly tho isnt that just fair? Christmas wasnt even a christian holiday to begin with
sul_tun@reddit
nikolapc@reddit
Cereals are halal. So Beer is halal. Whiskey comes from beer also halal. Rakija comes from fruit which is halal.
Le_Fish_In_Lava@reddit
jokes on this, shellfish is only haram in some sects
vbd71@reddit
Shellfish is not kosher
shit_at_programming@reddit
Kosher shit is Jew thing not Islam thing.
vbd71@reddit
same shit tbh
delerium1state@reddit
I believe Illyrian Islamic custims are according to the mentality of our people. It's much different form middle East customs.
nikolapc@reddit
Ilyrian Islamic? All European muslims are lax on those as they should be, but it's first time I hear of Ilyrian Islamik lol.
vbd71@reddit
Found the yahoodi
GaylordYeetster@reddit
And that still wasn't enough for them. We compromised under the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, compromised under the Communists. By the 90s, the average Bosniak was a drunk who prayed a handful of times a year, and it still wasn't enough for them. To them, the only good Muslim is a dead one.
ZAMAHACHU@reddit
That was in Sarajevo
GaytheonCheck@reddit
El agua moja, but can you blame them?
Cali-Re@reddit
What, a man can't enjoy some apple juice during namaz?
iswhhrxi@reddit (OP)
non-Balkan Muslims seeing this:
Bagatr@reddit
Even though I love Balkan people in general, and I was born relatively close to Balkans, yeah, that's my exact reaction lol
sonicc_boom@reddit
WhoYaTalkinTo@reddit
Balkan Islam AKA Islam Lite/Diet Islam
ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit
😂😂
ACM96@reddit
It's done the same way in Turkey. No stress, just a different name for the same tree, totally unrelated to religion.
OptimusTron222@reddit
Yes the tree is called The New Year Tree and Santa is the New Year figure(Babagjyshi i Vitit te Ri)
MrSmileyZ@reddit
TBF, Serbs are Christian and also call it a "New Year's Tree"
a_bright_knight@reddit
i mostly hear it called just "jelka" though...
MrSmileyZ@reddit
Novogodišnja Jelka umesto Božićna Jelka
a_bright_knight@reddit
brt samo jelka
_BREVC_@reddit
Aren’t Serbs actually more insistent (than us) on properly calling the thing a “badnjak”? At least the rural Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia seem to use the word for the actual tree itself.
I think most Croats you ask on the street wouldn’t know why Christmas Eve is actually called Badnjak, because these old-timey words are less present in Roman Catholic use.
JebemNaSuvoNeVadimGa@reddit
Badnjak is a whole other tree. Badnjak= Oak ( not the whole tree just a branch)
Distinct_Travel6386@reddit
for xmass we have Oak tree
Max_ach@reddit
Macedonians as well.
Snirion@reddit
Can someone tell me how does decorating evergreen tree is connected to Christianity? They just stole pagan custom and dipped.
_BREVC_@reddit
I think this is just becoming a wider thing in the more developed Muslim-majority countries. Christianity has seasonal aesthetics that mainline Muslim traditions don’t (as far as I’m aware), so they get onto the “-mas” look without the “Christ-“.
tatariko@reddit
It's a bit of a controversial topic, but I don't really think there is any problem to be found with a Muslim celebrating Christmas, as Jesus is stated as a messiah in the Quran, and why would celebrating the birthday of one of your prophets be problematic anyway? Hate around Christmas in the conservative Muslim population seems to stem from a need to differentiate themselves from Christians.
_BREVC_@reddit
From a Christian perspective, Christmas is less of a man’s birthday and more the incarnation of God in the image of man, so there is a world of difference in the way Christians and Muslims view Jesus.
From a Muslim perspective, uh, I guess it is really easy for anything to be given the shirk moniker. I believe it is still a fairly common discussion among Sunnis whether or not is it even OK for a Muslim to come pray at Mohammad’s tomb, or is that already shirk. So a decorative tree celebrating the divine nature of Jesus is… edgy for most mainline Muslim denominations.
tatariko@reddit
Fair enough. Prophets being human and not being a thing to pray to is a pretty strong statement in Islam. It is also why making paintings and sculptures of Muhammad is a grave sin in Islam, as it reinforces the deification of prophets. That being said, decorating trees at the turn of winter is almost certainly a pagan thing that was later Christianised anyway :D
_BREVC_@reddit
Certainly, Christianity in general has always been very syncretic from the get-go.
But some of the “pagan” origins of holidays are overstated; Christmas and Assumption of Mary for instance can be mapped along parts of Roman tradition, but for instance Easter is often grouped into the same category, even though all of its “pagan” symbols are like 500 year old German protestant traditions.
Double-Aide-6711@reddit
It's the same for Muslim Roma all over the world: they don't say it's Christmas, and when they decorate the tree, they say it's for New Year's. Some Muslim Roma who are a bit salafist on the edges say, 'You're imitating Christians,' but nobody really cares
Agron7000@reddit
It was a communist attempt to reduce the religious tension between Christmas of December 25 and the Christmas of January 6.
New year was in the middle as a neutral celebration for the 2 of 3 religious in Communist countries.
The states mission was to destroy all religions but with explicit and public execution like Enver Hoxha did, but more n a discrete way.
Therefore by intensifying the New Year celebration and never mentioning Christmas, the Communist leaders of Yugoslavia, mostly of Serbian background, over shadow the real religious Christmas.
Anti Easter celebrations.
Anti Slava (anti Patron Saint) celebrations
- The state countered this by making Republic Day a multi-day feast involving the ritual slaughter of pigs and large family gatherings—essentially mimicking the format of a Slava but dedicated to the Yugoslav state instead of a Saint
Anti Confirmation celebrations
Strong-Geologist-187@reddit
My Jewish Croatian family did the same.
Young_Owl99@reddit
I don’t know them but we do that. We celebrate new year with few christmas traditions.
This cause the annual “Muslim don’t celebrate Christmas” debates that became a meme at this point. Nobody take it seriously.
tatariko@reddit
At least nobody west of Ankara takes it seriously :D
SecondPrior8947@reddit
turks do
lilylilyg@reddit
The Muslim village where I live in the Bulgarian Rhodopes certainly do this.
crivycouriac@reddit
I’ve never heard anyone call it new year’s tree. Always Christmas tree.
not_ok_username@reddit
In Ukraine and russia we call it (small) Spruce: Ялинка / Ёлка it is diminutive form of Ялина / Ель
crivycouriac@reddit
Yes, jelka is also used here
opetja22@reddit
In Serbia everyone calls it a New year’s tree. 😁
Rich_Plant2501@reddit
New Year fir tree, more specifically, just tree sounds somewhat Croatian.
K-Hunter-@reddit
I confirm we do exactly that.
camelBackIsTheBest@reddit
Speak on your behalf. I never did won’t ever.
Vyoin@reddit
Most of us do, also gurbetcis like you arent one of us
JackDauso@reddit
Ughh almanci, you are not one of us already
Separate-Worry7374@reddit
Sure, just don't bother people who likes to do it
inki471@reddit
Look at his username, he’s an Arab wannabe. Of course he will bother people who like to do it, just like those bearded weirdos going to Starbucks yelling at people drinking there
Both-Buddy-6190@reddit
happy hanukkah it is then!
thatMrGecko@reddit
🤫
K-Hunter-@reddit
😳🤐
Ok-Brief5764@reddit
I think what a lot of people fail to understand is Albanian Muslims are not Arabs 😂😂, the approach to religion is very different.
Ok_Newspaper_9696@reddit
Same in Bosnia, not many, but they do it.
Commercial_Handle418@reddit
I never knew this flair existed
cile1977@reddit
Bringing a tree into the home for the winter solstice isn’t originally a Christian custom. People continued the tradition after becoming Christians, and the church accepted it because they didn’t want to lose followers and money.
Far-Researcher2189@reddit
Would have been more accurate to call it a solstice tree or something, also sounds way better.
Grenagar@reddit
In Russia too, maybe in many ex communist countries too
iswhhrxi@reddit (OP)
RUSSIA?! LIKE РОССИЯ?!
So, I guess this is a general Eastern European tradition from what I am assuming?
Grenagar@reddit
Where communists came to power, they was changing religious holidays to secular, so main winter holiday became New Year instead of Chrismass, so Chrismass tree become New Year tree, and so on.
greenest_alien@reddit
Ah this doesn't apply to Czechia at the least, but we did have attempts at introducing Father Winter and so on, mostly didn't stick.
IlerienPhoenix@reddit
Despite people in comments telling you that it's a communist tradition, in Russia it goes way back to the 15th century, and Peter the Great did a lot to popularize it and made decorating fir trees specifically a New Year tradition. Its overwhelming popularity compared to Christmas in Russia does indeed stem from the Soviets' crackdown on religion - they realized people still wanted to celebrate a winter holiday.
Game_Studio_@reddit
Yeah, we basically celebrate New Year the way west celebrates Christmas meanwhile our Christmas is a lot different, more focused on the religious part. At least in my country
ivanesas@reddit
No, it is communist propaganda. In Lithuania officialy it was the same, but not officially - christmas tree. Right now - no father frost or new years tree...back to real lithuanian tradion. TBH there is no such thing as eastern european tradition it is geopolitical term.
Grenagar@reddit
Lithuania was less under soviet occupation than Russia, so you were able to save traditions better, especially most harsh anti-religious compain was in early soviet years - 1920-1930.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
Russian?
delerium1state@reddit
Most likely heritage thrue culture. Russian are descendants of south Slavs. It’s in our blood. The tradition of Christmas trees comes from pagan times (before Christianity and Islam), but instead of pine trees, oak branches were used. And oak has some strong connections from that times. Pine was used later
BadBasik@reddit
Bosnian muslim here, we put up our tree around the end of November and it doesn't come down till February. Kids get New Year's presents under it on December 31st. If Eid is around that time, they also get Bajramluk(we give money to kids for Eid, you would think we're Jewish🤣).
If your neighborhood has people from other religions, it gets even better. On Saint Nicolas(December 19th), we go eat fish with our Orthodox friends and neighbors, they bring out Rakija for us, they can't drink it since they're fasting. If it's Ramadan during that time, only the Catholics drink. During the Christmas, Catholics bring out traditional sweets, and for the New Years we all get wasted. Our livers recover a bit and then we get hammered again on Orthodox Christmas.
These neighborhoods are going extinct though, sadly🥺
Matty359@reddit
I wish the whole world could be like this. Having neighbour's from different religions and cultures and everyone sharing and having fun.
StGoran@reddit
I've grown up in a street like that. Great times
labubufxgg0t@reddit
even many turks do that lol
No_Bottle1069@reddit
If my neighbour celebrates and belongs to a different religion i celebrate too, it was like this in the past, it is still but now we have extremists on multiple sides and make it look like different religions hate each other, which is not the case for majority of Albanians.
Kroman36@reddit
Same in Ukraine. Not “father winter” but “grandfather frost” but basically same thing
Takadant@reddit
Decorating evergreens ritually is a prechristian practice, search up Yule trees
PineTree_2012@reddit
Yeah we do
Interesting_Yak9894@reddit
Turks are doing that too
KulshanStudios@reddit
Yeah, they do it in Georgia, too
And then they celebrate christmas on like Jan 6 or 7
Was a h*lluva trip adjusting to east european winter holidays after living in the US for so long
Commercial_Leek6987@reddit
Let’s be real, the “Christmas Tree” has nothing to do with Christmas and is not related to Christianity at all. Let people decorate trees however/whenevr they like.
Right_Resist309@reddit
I don't know about Albanians, but we Turks do this.
delerium1state@reddit
Most likle handet over thrue culture. It’s in our blood. The tradition of Christmas trees comes from pagan times (before Christianity and Islam), but instead of pine trees, oak branches were used. And oak has some strong connections from that times. Pine was used later
GuruVII@reddit
In Slovenia it is called a new year fir tree and like Grandfather frost was imported from the USSR. But they were made our own, seeing how they were not violently purged after informbiro. I like the new tradition of three good men (Miklavž, Božiček and Dedek Mraz) being friends and giving gifts.
Incvbvs666@reddit
Countries in Eastern Europe which imported the Western tradition of Christmas generally applied it to New Year's instead of 'Christmas.'
This happened either because the country didn't celebrate Christmas because it wasn't Christian or, as is the case in Serbia, because we already had our traditional Christmas on January the 7th with plenty of not just unique customs but an entirely different vibe for the holiday.
In practice, this worked out very well for us, best of both worlds.
honeydew-34@reddit
I remember Melania Trump saying she’s doesn’t care much for Christmas(American version) what’s the difference between how Americans celebrate vs Slavic people? Cause in Canada they go big for Christmas and I actually enjoy the spirit of the holidays.
jerrydrakejr@reddit
What makes a tree a Christmas tree? Do Christmistians (i believe orthodox Christians celebrate Christmas on a later date than the others) own gifts under tree tradition and can only be done on “Christmas”? How about Santa Claus? Given how pagan it is -with a magical sledge, flying deers, elves- is that still also reserved for Christians only too?
Where is the line drawn? Are new year’s gifts also Christmas gifts?
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
Greece "celebrates" it on December 25.
Adventurous-Couple63@reddit
And we don't have Santa Claus (or magic reindeers). Gift giving is in New Year's and gifts are brought by Saint Basil of Caesaria (who spent his life giving to the poor).
hero_in_@reddit
Bulgaria too
Few_Face_9224@reddit
Yup, we celebrate Christmas on the 25th too.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Christians adopted local traditions to replace old beliefs throughout the history. Santa Klaus eventually got commercialized and even in communism it was promoted for recreational activities for kids. Normally, such way of feasting has not much to do with Christianity.
ahmetonel@reddit
Many people in both Kazakhstan and Türkiye don't know what Christmas is
Blood_Prince95@reddit
I live in eastern Greece close to the border and every Christmas the shops are swarmed by turkish people who buy Christmas trees and decorations. I’ve never bought so many myself, it was unexpected. So I think it’s possible. For most people this represents joy, happiness, calmness. It’s a message beyond religion and in every religion as well.
blu_cucumber@reddit
it evolved, the christians took it from the pagans, and called it christmes, the balkan muslims took it from the christians and call it new year tree
PropJoe23@reddit
30 years after the death of Yugoslavia, I, and everyone in my family, still do that. And new year's is still definitely a bigger thing for us than Christmas (though TBF neither is particularly big, we just stay up longer for NY and watch silly movies, lol)
AST360@reddit
In Turkey that is quite common for Muslim Tursk to buy a "New Year Tree" unless you are conservative.
Mestintrela@reddit
Koreans also buy and decorate a christmas Tree. And you know why? Because they have turned Christmas into a romantic holiday like St. valentine's so you decorate your tree with your love interest exchange gifts and then have romantic dinner...
At least our muslim neighbours have kept the family theme.....
MetroDodoPasDeBoulot@reddit
A christian albanian said that chrismast tree is not religious thing,he said its for all religion,he really thinks its for new year,he is young btw
Ill_Potato2514@reddit
We do it too in turkey
Ok_Ice_4215@reddit
Celebrating yule by decorating the tallest white sprruce tree is an ancient tradition in Turkic tribes that practiced Tengriism similar to many other pagan religions. There’s nothing Christian about it.
Stealthfighter21@reddit
Definitely the way it used to be in Bulgaria during communism. New Years tree with presents from Grabdfather Frost. Once the regime fell, it all transferred to Christmas.
Bugatsas11@reddit
Do whatever you want. It is a Germanic custom anyway that was adopted by Christianity 1500+ years after the times of jesus.
In Greece up until a couple of generations ago people used to decorate a model ship not a tree
Jazzlike_Ad5823@reddit
Yugoslavians did the same during communism Muslims and those who were not Christian, Santa Claus was Grandpa Frost (Djed Mraz) and presents would be under newyears tree (novogodišnja jelka),
We would have presents for New Year officially, since Christmas was not a public holiday.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ded_Moroz#Former_Yugoslavia
Winter_Grand8693@reddit
nothing beats being christian in communist country, you get ur presents on Christmas AND new year. with st. nicholas, you get presents for most of the december :D
iswhhrxi@reddit (OP)
Oh! So it was state-mandated? It's okay. At least you guys had fun regardless :D
-Against-All-Gods-@reddit
There is a magnificent scene in the classic Croatian TV series Naše malo misto where the kids in the family of the local nomenklatura ask:
"Mommy, why are we not celebrating Christmas?"
"Because it's a regressive holiday, love."
"But everybody is getting presents today and we aren't."
"You will get presents on New Year."
"But the regressives get presents today and on New Year! It's better to be regressive then!"
Winter-Speech978@reddit
Its not related to Christmas for us Orthodox. Its just a New year celebration tree.
dimp13@reddit
What I find hilarious that Christians who adopted Germanic pagan tradition of decorating tree to celebrate winter solstice now not only calling it "Christians tree" but "find it hilarious" when people calling it something else.
Bloody_mary009@reddit
Yes my family did this 😂
bruin97@reddit
Lol Bosnians do this too
Affectionate-Row-710@reddit
Under the komunist regime religion was banned, so Christmas tree became new year’s tree and Santa became new year’s grandpa. FF to 1990 freedom of religion returned but the celebration remained more of a cultural celebration than a religious one.
Environmental-Pea-97@reddit
That's some first class cultural imperialism. We have the exact same bullshit in TR. The "seculars" defend the practice with their lives because we, Muslims, obviously oppose it.
Montenegirl@reddit
Not just Albanias. Ex-Yu Muslims do that too. Tbh as a Christian I also see it as a New Year's thing more than Christmas thing
Few_Face_9224@reddit
We just call it a Christmas tree. I never even realized people in other countries might call it something different.
Gideon14a@reddit
Unfortunately yes
_mayuk@reddit
I mean I was rise catholic … but that tree es pagan stuff so this meme applies for us to ..
Christians settin a pagan try ritual and calling it at Christmas tree buhuu xd
Geo_fan_Albaniqn@reddit
As a albanian muslim i never did that nor anyone in my family
milic_srb@reddit
I mean in Serbia we do that too, I've never heard it being called a Christmas tree
Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit
The Christmas tree was also known among the Turkic peoples in Tengrism.
It's also a kind of Saint Nicholas, called Ayaz Ata in Turkish, and is celebrated on December 21st: Nardugan Bayram.
That's why Christmas trees are decorated.
Ayaz Ata brings gifts.
hero_in_@reddit
Didn't Saint Nicholas lived in modern day Turkey? I remember his grave was near Antalya
Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit
yes but ayaz ata is not santa claus.
Ayaz Ata is a old Father Frost symbol far back in Tengrism.
st. niicholas of myra now demre near antalya was a greek monk.
iswhhrxi@reddit (OP)
Wow! I see :D
Teşekkürler!
No-Rain6792@reddit
Albanians actually don’t give a sht about many things except feeling cozy that’s why we are practical and never negative 🥳😎
Ujemegaz@reddit
If this is a post to shit on "muslim Albanians" i am afraid it is just pathetic attempt to bring religious topics. In Albania, back in communism, New Year became a big day because very other feast was abolished in the sense that religion was outlawed, so we were left with only one day. I bet you have a better story fo Yugoslavia and how happy they were with christmass trees 😂
iswhhrxi@reddit (OP)
no, no, no. I am not trashing on Muslim Albanians.
I just found this video, and I found it interesting.
Ujemegaz@reddit
When we were kids, we used to decorate classrooms with cotton sticked over the glass of windows, colorful strips of papers stitched together in the shape of loops as chains and even cut shpaes of fir trees and paste them on the window glass in the midst of cotton.
EvilInGood@reddit
We do this in Turkey as well
Turbulent-Ad1123@reddit
Absolutely we do
Substratas@reddit
It’s called ”New Year Tree” that because the communist regime was anti-religion, so people found a way around it. Albanians, especially, have historically been very creative at finding ways to turn their supressor’s harsh laws & ideologies into their own benefit.
iswhhrxi@reddit (OP)
Oh, definitely. Albanians are quite a clever people.
aliksavin@reddit
We couldn't care less
dardan06@reddit
This goes as far as setting up the tree as late as on the 27th or 28th, well after Christmas itself. My grandma used to do this when preparing for NYE.
PlayfulMountain6@reddit
Albanian muslims are not even 45%
Useful_Race_8313@reddit
Turks do the same
OkoMushrooom@reddit
This is actually a product of communism+calendar issues because we do it too. Since the entire world follows the Gregorian calendar except for us few Julian calendar followers we’re always 13 days late to the party so to compensate for the Christmas joy we don’t feel in December that the entire world experiences on December 25th, we ascribe Christmas characteristics to New Years eve/day (even if it has nothing to do with religion) to make up for that calendrical issue until January 7th rolls around, our Christmas, which ends up feeling joyless while the entire world already moved on and started a new year fresh, yet you’re sitting there listening to the rantings of your drunk uncle bringing all that negativity into a fresh new start.
nikolapc@reddit
Only we the Serbs and Russians are left with that calendar, so we can switch but then it means we have to start working before Jan 19, and that just won't do.
OkoMushrooom@reddit
You have no idea how powerful it is to play with dates and time itself, it controls more than you realize and shapes your fate accordingly. Celebrating Christmas on the 25th of December would be reason finally coming home instead of the warped reality we’re living in.
Over-Willingness-933@reddit
Albanian Islam is not the same as the Middle East. It's much more moderate.
BurgurluGenc031@reddit
Probably since noel theme became a way to celebrite new year in the world and in general culture over a time thx to noel or noel themed global movies/tv shows.
PayAdministrative436@reddit
Yes
_Nem0_@reddit
Yes, maybe not all, but a lot do. We at least did.
Popular-Shopping-591@reddit
I think Bosnian Muslims (Bosniaks) too. Not all, but many.