Do you guys think QA is a dying field?
Posted by False_Secret1108@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 278 comments
It seems like there are becoming less and less jobs for QA. When I say QA, I am not only talking about manually testing software but also automating end to end tests with integrating tests into CI/CD pipelines, SDET kind of stuff. Software developers are increasingly testing more while having to code less, effectively cannibalizing many aspects of QA. There is a lot of skill overlap between QA and developer especially when it comes to the programming side of things, so it's not much of a leap. Also companies are increasingly adopting the mindset that end users should be testers for better or worse.
What do you guys think in terms of QA dying?
No_Comedian7332@reddit
With all the vibe coding mess out there?? No way, they are going to be highly demanded any time soon.
Fabulous-Possible758@reddit
We’re all QAs now.
Prime624@reddit
Which makes total sense, to make high wage developers spend a collective full time hours on something that a QA could do for slightly less money, and be better at it.
Part of me feels like this trend is caused by managers getting sick of QA holding up releases and slowing things down by finding bugs.
adilp@reddit
Every team ive been at with QA. Engineers would throw shit over the wall. Every team where engineers did qa/DevOps/design etc had way better quality and faster release cycles.
Strangely with more QA quality was worse from engineering and much slower.
pydry@reddit
IME the cause and effect is reversed: management hire QA for teams that push out shit.
Teams that had poor engineering quality didnt magically get better because their safety net was taken away.
Lonsarg@reddit
In our company we were 10 years without QA, now we have it and number of bugs is prettty much the same, testing is A LOT longer.
Crespoter@reddit
I removed the brakes and the car went faster.
RoyDadgumWilliams@reddit
I think the biggest reason is that dedicated QA teams simply don't provide enough value in many companies. At least that has been my experience in a couple jobs. QA tended to attract less talented or less effective engineers. Most who were talented and motivated eventually switched to the dev side for better pay. Both QA and dev overall didn't do a good job of communicating and establish processes that would make sure QA is actually testing the right things and understands the systems they are testing.
All of these problems could be fixed in theory, but solving the talent problem is the hardest part. If you pay QA engineers similar to SWEs that gets you part of the way there, but it's still better for an individual's overall career prospects to go into SWE. And if you're going to pay them the same, it's easier and simpler to just hire more SWEs and have them do their own QA
46516481168158431985@reddit
I have been doing QA for a while now and follow trends, job market etc all the time. This thread is either focused on a few very specific companies/type of companies or plain clueless.
Plenty of jobs where QA is embedded in scrum or similar teams and just do testing and automation, QA teams are rare but also still exist. Can earn comparable salary to dev at least in better companies. Expectations have been raised a lot.
RoyDadgumWilliams@reddit
In the case of the two companies I worked at, QA engineers were embedded but still report up to QA managers rather than the EM. And EMs were generally not as devoted to integrating the QA guys into the team and working with them closely.
I'm not saying QA can't be done well, it absolutely can and should. But my experience has been that the relationship between QA and dev teams can be very dysfunctional in practice when not managed carefully and end up in a spot where QA isn't able to catch many bugs
quantum-fitness@reddit
The reason for its is that if devs and QA are different functions or at least different teams they have a conflict of interest. QA are rewarded for having 0 problems and devs are rewarded for shipping features.
Thats at least the idea behind DevOps
Prime624@reddit
Finding 0 problems or shipping 0 problems?
quantum-fitness@reddit
Shipping 0 problems
Prime624@reddit
What's the issue with that?
quantum-fitness@reddit
Nothing if the feedback loop is fast, but you need to be interested in both the shipping part and the zero bugs. The problem was that QA was only rewarded for the 0 bugs part and not the shipping so they slowed things down.
Just like ops was rewarded for up time but not deploying so they would slow down releases etc.
endurbro420@reddit
I think you are correct. My company just did a big round of layoffs in the UK. Almost all the QA tried to get a voluntary lay off with a better severance because they were tired of being told they were holding up releases.
I can’t even understand how management thinks that when they are the ones signing off on the pr’s multiple days after code freeze.
pydry@reddit
If Amazon is anything to go by they start thinking about making a press release blaming "human error".
lastberserker@reddit
Engineers are lazy, comparatively, so in a longer run getting rid of QA means better engineered validation frameworks and coverage.
endurbro420@reddit
“Quality is everyone’s responsibility!”
😜
jldugger@reddit
You joke but I saw an executive go on stage for his all-hands and more or less declare that years ago. No additional headcount for QA, just "you all need to test software better."
endurbro420@reddit
I say it jokingly but I have heard many execs say that exact thing.
69f1@reddit
I honestly never understood scheme where you have developers build software while not being responsible for its quality. We had features cycle back and forth between dev and QA, and it was always fault of someone else it was still in that loop.
throwaway1847384728@reddit
I agree that it in theory makes sense. It solves a principle agent problem.
That only works if management gives developers extra time and headcount. In reality, most QA re-orgs have been soft layoffs.
The QA work just don’t get done by dev teams since they weren’t given any extra time to work on it in most places.
Sure, maybe this sometimes incentivizes better automated testing practices. But mostly testing just stops happening.
TiddoLangerak@reddit
YMMV, but in my experience it's the exact opposite. When QA is responsible for quality then feature development tends to take longer, both in absolute time and in just engineering time, because of much slower feedback loops, constant back and forth, and constant context switching. The highest velocity teams are those that managed to shift feedback left as much as possible, i.e. rely heavily on automated testing on the dev side.
I think most teams are better off not having QA than having QA, but in specialized cases QA can still be useful. This is mainly for products that deal with very messy real-world situations, e.g. if you're a credit card issuer then a dedicated QA team to build elaborate automated tests for all sorts of esoteric real-world devices and set-ups would be very useful.
nemeci@reddit
If the QA feedback loop is too long, why isn't the QA done in the team then? Solves the hand-off overhead too.
TiddoLangerak@reddit
That's still a much slower feedback loop then directly getting your results in your IDE while developing.
nemeci@reddit
True. But never trust a developer testing their own code against the specs, there may be something missing or something vague in the specs that didn't get caught in the refinement.
pigeon_from_airport@reddit
I'm sorry but that's the most idiotic take I've heard and I've heard this plenty of times - every time from a PM or an aspiring architect who's having budget constraints because the didn't allocate for testing when creating the pricing model. if you are unware, the devs usually do a whitebox testing before pushing things with or without QA. Without a dedicated QA team, you're just delaying the inevitable. the bugs will surface soon either during a demo or during UAT.
if youre asking why cant developers do the testing - there isn't enough time. otherwise we will have to give devs that same amount of time given for QAs - at that point it becomes more expensive because devs are billed more than a qa per hour.
this is simply trying to cut corners. there's no excuse on it. you want a good quality product, you need proper testing. and every application unless u don't intend for it to be in production long enough will have messy, complicated usecases.
note: this kinda became a rant, but I've seen enough morons from the functional team hoping to unload the QA work on devs only to see the project velocity take a hit, blame devs causing a teamwide burnout or the project see shutdown because the client doesn't want a shitty product.
hiddenhare@reddit
If you don't have staff members dedicated to quality assurance, you'll cause a diffusion of responsibility. Individual developers will maintain quality when that's undeniably their responsibility (testing code they've authored, fixing bugs they've been formally assigned), but if it's nobody's job to do cross-cutting stuff (e.g. aimlessly testing the entire product and prioritising the resulting flood of bugs), then it just won't get done.
Few-Impact3986@reddit
Yeah. It is a different mindset, they tend to also be cheaper resources.
The problem with the qa loop is a cost, but in my experience that loop gets longer because you basically just ship the feature and wait for a customer to complain.
The other loop cost is when they offshore qa, which is more of a offshore problem, not a qa process.
uns0licited_advice@reddit
Back before software was delivered through the internet and you had to go to a store to buy physical disks, the software companies had no way of fixing a bug that made it to production. So we had these giant QA teams that were often larger than the dev teams because the software had to be perfect.
69f1@reddit
Yes, it depends on whst you do make. In our case it's an online service. If we had anything that's installed, things start to look a lot different.
blacktide215@reddit
At least at my company - it's not so much that as much as it is about having a separation between the people doing and the people checking.
You don't want the people doing the work to also be the ones that sign-off that it's good. It's good practice to have that separation. And I can tell you if we had the devs at my company also do all the QA it would a bad time.
Now, that's not to say that we don't have to do some preliminary testing so we're not handing QA a pile of shit.
(Note I am not a "senior/experienced", I have about 2 years of experience)
Ma1eficent@reddit
Good instincts, checks and balances are the reason indeed.
strongfitveinousdick@reddit
Um.. are you in my company?
SnugglyCoderGuy@reddit
It really is.
VP-of-Vibes@reddit
QA didn't die. It got redistributed without a title change or a raise.
rothwerx@reddit
I’m a programmer who is now just QA for AI.
MillardFillmore@reddit
Manual QA is so important these days, it's like 80% of the work involved in maintenance coding. There are so many times now where I get a bug report from our manual QA team, and feed it directly into GPT5.4/Opus. When I work, so much more of my time is spent testing. It sucks though because this isn't the job I signed up for...
NewFuturist@reddit
Our PM was given QA duties and it has worked pretty well. It ensures they are across features and how they are working compared to what they were expecting. It's improved the deployed product already.
drew8311@reddit
If you are profitable enough or have an ecosystem people are stuck in the customers sometimes take on the QA responsibility.
lastesthero@reddit
QA as a role is shrinking but the work isn't going anywhere — it's just getting absorbed by devs who don't have time for it.
The part that actually gets dropped is visual and regression coverage. Most teams are fine writing unit tests and integration tests because those live next to the code. But nobody wants to maintain a screenshot baseline or manually check 40 pages after a CSS refactor. That stuff just... doesn't happen anymore once the dedicated QA person leaves.
The irony is that's exactly where AI tooling is getting useful — not replacing QA judgment, but automating the tedious comparison work that devs won't do manually.
ShiKage@reddit
In my company, I am the only developer. We recently hired 2 QA peeps.
They tell me that building unit tests is purely a dev job.
They tell me that manual testing is a dev job.
They tell me that setting up automation pipelines with Github for testing is a dev job.
They tell me that finding problems or opportunities with the existing applications I have built and maintain is a dev job.
They only thing they do is set up Selenium or Playwright and test tools we didn't build internally.
Honestly, I have no idea what they do. Neither one of them even seem remotely competent with computers in general, given that they need their hand held for every single thing they do.
...Not saying this is representative of all QA peeps, but unfortunately this is the only impression I get to have. If I am going to be doing everything as the sole dev of the company when QA out numbers me, I don't see why they exist. A good QA should be taking charge of these things, in my opinion. That's kind of the point.
False_Secret1108@reddit (OP)
It sounds like you work at a very small company
CodelinesNL@reddit
It sounds like he works at a non-tech company seeing that he's the only dev.
ShiKage@reddit
Yeah, we're about 500 employees. We had a bigger dev team, but our business people decided to hire a data contractor and lay off or move the development team to different positions, with the exception of myself, who is the unfortunate one that knows too much to be moved out. It's good for the current market, but it has definitely pigeonholed me.
Thankfully, I only build internal tools, so it isn't too bad so long as the data contractors leave me alone.
st4rdr0id@reddit
Yep the role has been emptied of meat because it's too difficult to hire a Java QA or a Python QA. Its oo difficult for them to set up a dev environment and commit unit tests. So there is just the generalist QA role since many years ago. They wont touch any code, they just do Selenium and paperwork.
iComplainAbtVal@reddit
You’re getting corporately played. It’s crazy to me how smart engineers are supposed to be yet they’re so oblivious to the obvious.
They definitely report a different story to their managers and are offloading work onto you.
ShiKage@reddit
Don’t be so quick to judge!
I work in a small enough and quiet enough office that you can hear every conversation everyone has. There aren’t many secrets to be had on my team.
Management has been frustrated with how little our QA team seems to be able to accomplish. Unfortunately, they are just bad hires. I just have to deal with it until other opportunities arise.
Scottz0rz@reddit
Yes, it's been dying for years as-is and AI is making it worse.
It might come back to life more when they realize slop needs more heavy QA / end-to-end verification to cross check AI code IMO.
bman484@reddit
My dev job has shifted to a QA person who can fix things when needed
NoCardio_@reddit
My company laid off most of its QA department two years ago. I could say that it backfired spectacularly, but honestly, we haven’t noticed a difference. Shift left actually works in some situations.
Alwaysafk@reddit
My QAs were rubber stamping everything so when they got axed and devs became responsible for shit getting to prod things slowed way the fuck down amd stability skyrocketed.
NoCardio_@reddit
We had people who tried to justify their jobs by breaking the app anyway possible. Things that no normal user would do, they insisted that we fix.
Head-Bureaucrat@reddit
The problem is a threat actor or atypical users could do those things. I'm not saying just because QA found it, it should be fixed. Far from it, priority and severity should be taken into account. But back when I was in QA (I'm a dev now) I found instances where I could add so many records to a field that it would break the DB when saved, my coworker found instances where he could do SQL injection attacks, I could lock myself out of an app in a way that ended up being done by an elderly person in prod, and I cratered app performance for a mission critical flow (the CEO ended up encountering that one in prod!)
aeroverra@reddit
I get away with far too much by removing the disable attribute on pages lol
Qwertycrackers@reddit
If you ever want to buy steam gift cards in a weird amount you can edit the values in the html and it works.
trembling_leaf_267@reddit
When I did medical QA, we had so many arguments over this. Sometimes we lost.
Over time, most really were trivial. Most of the rest just caused unacceptable faults. And a few of them would have injured people. One (hardware) shocked the surgeon during a test. One (software) set the hardware units on fire during procedures, that was fun.
But it was really hard, from the QA perspective, to know in advance which was trivial and which was not. So we argued them all.
Zealousideal_Cup4896@reddit
I got dinged once a long time ago by them because in my documentation I placed a period at the end of a message and when the message was displayed on the vfd of the device there was no period. So I’m sympathetic to this situation :) but I worry about getting rid of them entirely.
Head-Bureaucrat@reddit
That's one of those things I don't mind if QA documents it, as long as they understand it might not be fixed.
EliSka93@reddit
Most bug-labeling software has a "won't fix" label for those kinds of errors.
Leather_Cable9208@reddit
Who do you guys work for? So I can remove your apps from my computer…
space-to-bakersfield@reddit
Yeah I feel like I'm in some intermediate developer twilight zone in this thread, with commenters climbing over eachother trying to boast how one of the most useful safety nets a dev can have is not neccesary. Da fuq!?
Head-Bureaucrat@reddit
Right? I replied with more specifics, but atypical users, situations, and threat actors are still realities (hell, threat actors probably moreso with AI.)
I get severity and priority should still inform fixing, but oofta.
skidmark_zuckerberg@reddit
At my last job our QA did this. I rejected so many QA bugs, at least 50% of them because they were doing things that no user would ever consider. Huge time sync fixing these super niche bugs that user would realistically ever encounter but a QA with deep product knowledge poking at the system for a full shift. These bugs would be so far outside of a users workflow that I had to straight up ask multiple times what they were even doing looking for bugs like this.
SnugglyCoderGuy@reddit
I work with a QA like this. Create issues by doing things the service cant do with the database and then doing things only someone with access to prod secrets could do and then acts like it is a ticking time bomb wairing to blow the company up and needs fixed asap.
shared_ptr@reddit
I think this is the reality of why QA as a role is fading: the ridiculousness of having a team shipping things and a totally separate team with different motivations finding bugs that they then have to request the original team do the work to fix is crazy.
So much better to have a product team own it end to end including in production. They own what they build and can make decisions on how fast to move/how much to fix based on their operational load and user feedback instead of political sniping.
Current-Fig8840@reddit
So annoying when they do this
SnugglyCoderGuy@reddit
Yeah. Some of the more 'motivated' QA people I work with come up egregiously convoluted scenarios that require manual entries into the database that the service cannot make and they then demand we spend hours talking about how to fix it when it isnt possible to begin with unless we have a malicious manager
nanotree@reddit
Mine laid off most of them and got rid of the job title. Shifted to QE instead, and were pushing for full automated testing. But then not every team got a QE to help build that testing... and devs aren't given the time to build anything themselves. So we're just stuck testing our own shit manually. It's fucking stupid.
blindsdog@reddit
You weren't already doing this...?
minimuscleR@reddit
im sure they were but you miss so many things when doing it that way.
We have a QA team and the number of times they catch bugs I just didn't think about is enough to justify their job. Its never things like "numbers in a text field" its always "at this resolution this looks out of frame but only on safari". and as i dont use safari i didn't think to test that myself.
zaibuf@reddit
You can run browserstack locally. If Safari is in your list of supported browsers you should be able to test on it.
minimuscleR@reddit
Sure but I don't have an account for that via my company, only the QAs do, and secondly its still a pretty niche bug that I might miss. The point isn't that I can't test. I can also just load up safari and run it. The point is when you have 10000 other things to think about having a QA double check your work and submit bugs is nice.
HettySwollocks@reddit
Playwright is free, does the same thing.
minimuscleR@reddit
Sure, but we have only started using playwright last year, and have screenshot tests for only a few key locations so far.
HettySwollocks@reddit
Checkout visual diffs as well, that's very cool
minimuscleR@reddit
Thats what I meant by screenshot tests. We do this only for a few key places at the moment, though are working on increasing them. We don't want to do every page else it would be more annoying. And we don't put many bugs in prod as it is.
zaibuf@reddit
Well, then its a company problem and not "QA find things I don't", because you literally can't find them because of company constraints lol
SnugglyCoderGuy@reddit
Manual testing is the dumbest way of testing and should only be done if it is required, and that requirement window should be as small as possible. Everything else should be automated tests.
NoCardio_@reddit
Not being given the time to test is the real issue.
Bderken@reddit
Yup, that’s happening to my client companies too. Devs don’t have that QA loop. My FAANG clients still have it, but a lot of F500/100 companies that aren’t really tech based are moving towards that. It’s so stupid. All their software is shit
guareber@reddit
I don't get this take. With agentic flows basically making PR reading a nightmare, I'd say QAs are likely to be more important in the next few years.
throwaway1847384728@reddit
I think you have cause and effect reversed.
The industry is moving towards more agentic coding and less QA because they’ve decided that software quality doesn’t affect the business.
Most software companies are a monopoly at this people. People are more or less forced to pay to use the software (even if the payment is indirect like ads) and companies are able to use their monopoly power to extract rents.
It doesn’t matter if the software actually works. Or if it’s high quality or buggy. Those details no long impact the core businesses of these companies, so they don’t care.
FoolHooligan@reddit
software is going to shit and the bar is being lowered for software engineers entering the field.
do you think they're going to do a better job at testing their own code now that they can write code at a million miles per hour?
my thought is that no, they'll do worse, and QA will be coming back with a vengeance once the AI hype cools down
Pandas1104@reddit
Wow news to me, I guess those 80 competitors I have must be imagined.
pydry@reddit
MS teams has enough competitors and if software quality were its USP it'd be dead.
oiimn@reddit
I 100% agree with this statement and I would add on to it that downsizing QA hasn’t happened because of AI. I worked in QA before and this shift was happening around COVID and even before.
Most companies top management think that the product quality is not worth investing into, as users can take a lot of enshitification of the product until they actually leave. And honestly, I agree with top management on this even if it hurts me to do so.
guareber@reddit
Until your product starts getting bad press due to outages and you need to start offering compensation.
Let's agree to disagree on "most"
CowboyBoats@reddit
It would probably make more sense to say "Most good-paying software jobs are for companies that are monopolies" than "Most companies are monopolies" since by their nature monopolies are huge and unary rather than numerous.
For example even if 1 billion people worked for Google and the last 25 people worked for six tiny companies then "most companies are monopolies" might sound true but would be emphatically false.
jameson71@reddit
Agentic flows sound like something a pill could solve.
Spider_pig448@reddit
Nah. QA survived automated testing somehow, it can survive AI
Condex@reddit
Yeah, this right here.
The problem with QA is that you don't notice their disappearance for a couple of years. The industry as a whole has been dumping QA for a while. IIRC didn't Microsoft start in ~2014? It took me until 2025 to switch to Linux.
However, LLMs might be paradoxically making things better. It just had to make everything worse first. A few years ago, I spent 6 months with a client trying to find a way to convince them that their codebase is an existential threat to their business because they have 10 years of updates that they refuse to do. I got word that apparently the mythic release is scaring them into greenlighting a much needed rearchitecturing.
In the past you could design your crappy service full of third party dependencies with unknown supply chain vulnerabilities in them and it doesn't matter because the internet is full of vulnerabile targets more interesting than you so, statistical, you'll never be attacked.
Tomorrow there'll be a fully autonomous out of the box solution for trolling through the web looking for targets to ransomware. Just plug it in and your Bitcoin wallet starts to fill up.
I hope that convinces the powers to be to consider QA as an asset again, but if it doesn't then I'm fairly sure their successors will have learned the lesson.
baganga@reddit
it comes back in the way of automating QA massive tests and pipelines, but classic QA testing stories in messy ways is going away. and I'm kind of for it honestly, the QA teams I've worked with just end up raising fire alarms over inconsequential stuff to fill a quota.
Devs should handle edge cases and base quality and QA should focus on a more holistic approach
anonyuser415@reddit
While the slop from some of my fellow SWEs is pretty atrocious, the stuff coming from our QA team is just ridiculous.
No one understands how their new automation system works. A manager vibe coded it and the process for them to fix a broken test is to ask Claude to make a new test. No one reviews their code. It's madness.
Meek_braggart@reddit
I think QA is going to be the only place with growth in the next few years.
steampowrd@reddit
I disagree. Instead I think AI will be doing a lot of QA work. That’s something it actually might be good at
Meek_braggart@reddit
If a company just copies Claude Code output to their production server then maybe. That might happen in the short term but it will shake out in the end.
Knock0nWood@reddit
Based on what
False_Secret1108@reddit (OP)
Why do you say that? I don't think testing is dying. I just think people with special labels as "QA" will be gone.
Meek_braggart@reddit
What else would we call them other than QA? Do you think that the need for people who do testing is declining or simply there is a movement to rename them for some reason?
False_Secret1108@reddit (OP)
I mean it says it in the post... devs doing the qa work...
iJuicyDev@reddit
All of software engineering is a dying field
Standard-Pen4307@reddit
I never understood the QA Role in a modern business anyway. It is best practice to write the tests while implementing the functionality, even better to the write the test before implementation if possible. With AI this is even more present, as we all will test more and implement less. So what is the point of a QA Person, i don‘t need someone that is writing tests only. That is also some knowledge that is not hard to learn anyway.
ShiroNii@reddit
An entire office of ours who had most of our QA got shut down, and we've been our own QA since. 🙃
Konanan@reddit
It is not only QA experiencing this, but the entire software development sector. AI has already dramatically changed software development, and essentially, it's going to own these jobs 100% in a few years. Senior Software Developers, like me, have been transformed into AI Orchestrators and the 'guardrails' until AI is completely ready to take over the entire thing.
valkon_gr@reddit
Devs are doing everything.
martiantheory@reddit
I really wish QA would come back. My career is almost split in half. The first half I had QA engineers that were almost my closest friends (at least in corporate life). I was able to concentrate on making the core functionality work and then I had a whole, separate brain that was only focused on finding edge cases for me to consider. In my opinion, the software was much better.
When you have to focus on delivering the software and then imagining all the things other people might do you are limited. Generating a list of things that other people might do with software, is easier to create by an another person. I feel like I naturally just think about what the software does so it’s hard for me to imagine what other people might click because I just spent two weeks building software to do one thing.
I understand the perspective of people that think why don’t you just make “good” software? But building good software for millions of people is hard for one person to do.
I hate that we have moved in this direction of maximum productivity. I’m sure there are people in the world that can build a car by themselves. They can build it, they can’t market it, they can test it for safety, they can do all the things. But that doesn’t mean that we need to push our engineers to be a one stop shop. I don’t think that’s efficient. And I think the world is suffering for it.
There was a time in the 2010s that I feel like software was much better than it is right now. I feel like that “happy path” is getting better for all apps. But if you diverge from the “happy path”, it’s all going to shit. Because corporations are trying to squeeze every single penny of profit that they can, all of our experiences with software is getting worse.
Bring QA’s is back. Software takes human minds, and effort, to build. I will die on this hill.
lardsack@reddit
the need for QA will increase as AI becomes more adopted, but that doesnt necessarily mean corporations will start hiring more QA engineers. QA skills will be valuable in the future
Qwertycrackers@reddit
Yeah companies dont care about the Q so why would they want to A it?
ultimagriever@reddit
In my last two companies, we actually hired SDETs because of quality issues stemming from heavy AI usage and review overhead. At the one I’m working atm I personally hired one and the difference in quality is like night and day.
I’d say it’s not dead, but most companies’ priorities are fucked up
jimmytoan@reddit
honestly the SDET/automation side feels most at risk - when devs are using AI to generate tests anyway, the specialization gap shrinks a lot. curious if pure manual QA was already declining before AI or if this is just accelerating something that was already happening
Puggravy@reddit
No, it's just that developers are being forced to QA a lot more than previously, with predictably disastrous results.
Organizations that cannot tolerate frequent regressions and breakages still have dedicated QA engineers (at least the competent ones), and realize that QA and Development have two competing domains (responsibility for delivering code, and responsibility for making sure code is free of regressions).
In fact I would be shocked if we don't start having savvy orgs shift more resources to QA as AI tools become more useful and get more adoption. AI isn't particularly good at understanding the concept of regressions, and it's not just a lack of context window or instruction files issue, it is a fundamental quality of probability derived code!
pacman2081@reddit
QA is dead in USA. Maybe in places like India, there are a few openings. I see a few Device companies having QA engineers
ProfessionalLimp3089@reddit
The fear isn't wrong. But the diagnosis might be. It's not QA dying. It's the "execute pre-written test scripts" version dying. The judgment layer, knowing what to test, what edge cases matter, what failure modes nobody thought of, that's never been automatable. And it's about to become the most valuable skill in the room. If you're the person who knows what to test and why, you're not getting replaced. You're getting promoted into the role QA was always supposed to be.
TheTacoInquisition@reddit
Personally I see a lot of value in QA being embedded in the teams and working closely with customer experience. They can help be a first line of support and develop observability and replay systems to make it easy to spot issues and determine what paths users take etc.
QA as a separate team might not survive, but QA as a role could be very central going forwards
ProfessionalLimp3089@reddit
The observability and replay angle is where I've been spending most of my time lately. Building agent systems that monitor what users actually do vs what they report is a different problem than writing test cases, and it's the part most teams underinvest in. If you're working on anything in that space I'd be curious to compare notes, we've hit some interesting walls around what to automate vs what still needs a human eye.
buildsquietly@reddit
The demand in every field will erode. The only people who will survive are those with deep vertical knowledge in their respective domains.
solidad29@reddit
We call them QEs (Engineers).
Not they aren't dying. Necessary sila kasi may bias ang developers when it comes to testing, and even with AI yung business domain knowledge ng QE is important. AI can help them generate test cases pero reviewing and tweaking them still under the responsibility of the QAs.
NeonQuixote@reddit
"There is a lot of skill overlap between QA and developer especially when it comes to the programming side of things, so it's not much of a leap."
I understand where this comes from, but I am going to disagree a bit. Testing is a very different mindset from an app developer's. Developers tend to think about the happy path of a piece of code, and maybe a few possible failure scenarios. A tester's job is to try to break the code, and they will think of things developers won't.
And even if they don't, at the very least developers should not be testing their own code. The test should be done and performed by a different set of eyes. Also, QA might read the requirements to the user story and understand it differently - and a possible issue that wouldn't occur to the developer may surface by that different understanding.
QA is out friend - they find our screwups before the customer does. For that reason alone I do *not* want to see them go.
PM_ME_SOME_ANY_THING@reddit
As a lead dev on a team of supporting an app with a 40k user base, we would be ice skating up a hill without our QA team.
That’s not even a huge user base. It’s relatively small compared to anything FAANG. Our QA team finds so many bugs between releases. Even with all the bugs they find we get prod issues reported by users.
Our higher ups mentioned cutting QA a while back, I’m really glad nothing came of that. I think I need way more money before I deal with our mess of a system without QA.
scientific_thinker@reddit
I hope not.
I need my QA. I use TDD. I have unit tests. I do my best during dev testing to catch everything. Despite all of that, I miss things. I think most if not all of us need a fresh set of eyes to look at our code. Authors need editors. Developers need QA.
BucketsAndBrackets@reddit
I really hate and avoid doing manual testing and it is not really good that I do that on my own code because I know what I was thinking when I made it so most of the times it is better to have fresh mindset when testing instead of knowing what you made.
edgmnt_net@reddit
I test my own stuff (if it works, foreseeable corner cases etc.), but it's nice to have extra validation done by QA.
scientific_thinker@reddit
I completely agree.
lost12487@reddit
Yes. We folded the SDET role onto regular engineer’s duties about 3 years back. It’s not as good as having a dedicated specialist doing it, but it hasn’t been a complete disaster.
R2_SWE2@reddit
Sadly for most of my career it’s been like this: “if we eliminate X type of role, do we lose an acceptable amount of quality?”
st4rdr0id@reddit
This only happens in unregulated, "wild west" industries like tech. Imagine if in healthcare someone said: "if we eliminate the anaesthesiologist, would we save money?" or "if instead of disinfectant we use just running tap water, do we lose many lives?". Imagine if in architecture some manager said, "if we use cardboard beams, do we save on steel?". It would be unheard of because these professions were born in a different era and they still retain some discipline.
AffectionateTune9251@reddit
Well, 99% of tech jobs are nowhere near as important as jobs in healthcare and architecture, so cutting quality does not have as serious of an impact.
bbaallrufjaorb@reddit
we did the same but except for one solid guy. the responsibility is spread throughout the eng team but he kinda spearheads high level direction if that makes sense. writes a lot of integration and e2e tests, maintains the infrastructure and CI that runs them, that kinda thing. gotta say it’s been working really well, but probably because he’s good at it and enjoys doing it.
subma-fuckin-rine@reddit
guessing no backfill if he leaves tho?
bbaallrufjaorb@reddit
it’s possible! he’s actually quite new to the company, so, maybe more like him are out there.
once all the QA and SDET responsibilities were folded into the eng team, a clear frustration point for the team was the lack of ownership on this side of things. no one really wanted to manage releases, fix e2e test environments, backfill tests, etc, so we hired this guy into this role hes killing it.
Smart_Signal@reddit
This is my view, the QA becomes more of a consulting role supporting the Devs who actually do the work (with a bit of AI support!). It is consulting, supporting,. leading, not policing though
fame2robotz@reddit
Why even have the role then? Devs can just figure it out, it’s not like testing is hard
thelochteedge@reddit
Sounds about the same as the place I’m at. Not all of them are gone but certain departments are phasing them out or converting them to devs.
schmidtssss@reddit
We have offshore testers and it’s working pretty well in the scheme of thingsn
st4rdr0id@reddit
They are also having to do design, deployment, cloud things... many hats for the price of one. That's what the AgileTM movement was mostly about: corporations in the late 1990s wanted to work faster at the cost of quality and engineerish practices.
Notice that while devs now have to do many roles at once, they are essentially just qualified to write software, and they botch all the other activities because nobody taught how to do them professionally, and corporations refuse to pay for training. This means they don't do any design or architecture ("just start writing code lol") and the test they write are not adding value or catching defects, because they are biased tests (testing independence principle violated, lack of skill in devising useful tests)- In case of problems (very likely) the higher ups will just blame the "developer". The role was probably named after something like a photography studio where you get chemicals in and get a developed picture out. Similarly you get a list of wishes in and a developer will magically get some working software out.
chunky_lover92@reddit
QA should die and that work should just become everybody's work.
SomewhereLatter4337@reddit
I have never in my life met a developer than can do as good of a job as a decent QA.
deafgamer_@reddit
Yep. Plus, QA is a full time job and believing otherwise is just halfassing it or accepting a lower quality product.
oldDotredditisbetter@reddit
developer = "happy path + 2 edge cases work. ship it!"
Which-Meat-3388@reddit
I worked at a company like this. We'd waste 20 engineering hours per week doing the worst possible job. Everyone hated it and the product was no better for it. Further, you cannot QA your own work. Otherwise it would have been perfect when you landed it and require no QA at all, right?
Pleasant-Cellist-927@reddit
Spoken like someone who thinks QA is just equivalent to 'Tester' as a role.
Manufacturing industries still have inspectors, but that doesn't absolve everyone else of their responsibility towards ensuring quality, nor does the inspectors' jobs boil down to just walking down with a clipboard and pen and idly repeating the check over and over. If an inspector finds quality to be lacking, they recommend safeguards in the process to ensure better output going forward. Software Dev QA is no different.
lawnobsessed@reddit
Everyone that I know in QA is out of a job right now.
deafgamer_@reddit
What are they pivoting to? Anywhere I look, there's already zillions of laid off workers with exactly that experience competing for the same jobs. Very hard to pivot right now and start as junior or mid level for any other job title.
Adept-Result-67@reddit
Dude i’d say it’s the most important role now with AI. Is QA really not in demand? My experience has been the opposite and a good QA is very worth the money
deafgamer_@reddit
I'm a top notch QA and cannot find a job for the life of me. QA is absolutely not in demand... very few jobs are posted daily.
Substantial_Baker_80@reddit
Twenty years in AI here. QA is not dying. What is dying is the specific flavor of QA where a person manually clicks through a checklist of features and reports whether they work. That has been dying for 10 years and AI is just accelerating it.
What is actually happening is that the QA function is being absorbed into engineering (shift left) and also evolving into something harder. Both of these are true at the same time and that is what makes this confusing.
The part most people in this thread are missing is what testing looks like when AI is generating the code or when the product itself uses AI. Traditional QA assumes deterministic behavior: you give the same input, you get the same output, you compare it to the spec. AI breaks that assumption. Models produce non deterministic output. Code generated by LLMs has different failure modes than handwritten code (subtle off by one logic, invented API calls, confident looking code that does the wrong thing). You cannot test this with the old playbook.
The teams I have seen handle this well have someone whose job is essentially adversarial validation: fuzzing AI outputs, building regression suites around edge cases the model handles badly, monitoring for drift over time, catching hallucinated function calls before they hit production. That person used to be called QA. Now they might be called an ML engineer or an evaluation engineer or just 'the person who makes sure this does not blow up'. The title is changing but the work is if anything harder and more important than before.
If you are in QA right now, the move is to learn what it means to test non deterministic systems. Build fluency with evaluation frameworks, property based testing, statistical assertions (does the model get the right answer 95% of the time, not 100% of the time). That skill set is not going away. The person who can certify that an AI feature actually works reliably is going to be worth more in two years, not less.
deafgamer_@reddit
What job title would this AI QA Engineer be targeting? I scroll daily but I don't really see much of anything for QAs testing AIs.
PM_40@reddit
Any resources to learn non determinstic testing.and everything else you have listed here.
E-R_A@reddit
QA as a field is not going anywhere, and it's becoming more necessary by the day, because we write a LOT more code every day, and all code is imperfect.
But as a specific position, its future looks kind of bleak right now. Devs often shoulder this responsibility, and coding agents make it a lot faster to write tests, so I wouldn't be very optimistic about the prospects of QA engineering.
irespectwomenlol@reddit
Let's face it, if we live in a world where AI agents can continuously verify software correctness, most QA employees who focus on these kinds of repetitive tests are eventually cooked.
I think there's still a role for QA, but maybe it's more about figuring out if the spec is right, analyzing User Experience, user flows, and design taste. You'd be doing less of "Does this software work right" and you'd be doing more of "Should it work this way or is there a better way."
6f937f00-3166-11e4-8@reddit
I'm a contractor that has worked with 20+ clients over the last 15 years. Haven't had a QA on the team in at least 13
marssaxman@reddit
It died a long time ago, as far as my experience goes. I haven't heard of anyone hiring SDETs in over a decade; didn't know that was still a thing anywhere.
mistyskies123@reddit
I don't agree with it, but I observe it happening with a number of companies I've joined having axed their entire QA functions.
With more automation and AI, I don't see that trend changing - if anything, it's more likely to accelerate.
Choperello@reddit
Qa has been dying for 20 years now dude.
_mkd_@reddit
And it shows.
Choperello@reddit
Yes that’s why technology is underpinning even more of our daily life because QA has gotten worse.
hipsterdad_sf@reddit
The irony is that the teams cutting QA to save money are the same teams that will need it most in two years. Right now the industry is generating code faster than ever thanks to AI, and the ratio of "code produced" to "code understood by the people shipping it" is getting worse. That gap is exactly what QA exists to catch.
The shift left movement made sense when developers wrote all their own code and understood the full context. But when a significant chunk of your codebase was generated by an LLM that your team accepted without deep review, you actually need more verification, not less.
What I've seen work well is a hybrid model where QA evolves from manual testers into people who own the testing strategy and the automation infrastructure. Not writing individual test cases but building the systems that make comprehensive testing possible. Think contract testing across microservices, chaos engineering for reliability, visual regression testing. That kind of work requires deep product knowledge combined with engineering skills and it's genuinely hard to automate away.
The teams that killed QA entirely and shifted everything onto developers are discovering that developers under sprint pressure will always prioritize feature delivery over exhaustive testing. It's not a character flaw, it's an incentive problem.
ether_reddit@reddit
QA became DevOps years ago, but even that is dying. I really wish it wouldn't because a good devop person takes so much load off the rest of the team, and futzing around with config files is very much the opposite of what I enjoy doing.
Which_Extreme325@reddit
When I first started we did not have QA and it worked fine. Later they added QA. I think it made the programmers less accurate. They tend to not do their own testing or only brief testing and this makes their code less sound, relying on QA. QA also often test areas that were not changed extending timelines. They need to do negative tests, but not positive testing in unchanged code. +- both ways.
shill_420@reddit
my company moved to daily deployments a couple years back and they still have manual QA test each card as they get to them, even if the change has been in prod for days.
so that's always fun.
Empty_Kaleidoscope55@reddit
Honestly I just have an LLM that triggers after each LLM finishes its task. It runs the E2E tests and sees what changes in the last release does an exploratory test then writes E2E tests for next run. I found this way bugs dropped. I haven’t quantified bug reduction. But I do know the bug reports I get are more detailed than any qa gives me
star_dust88@reddit
I recently switched from qa to dev and 2 things shocked me. 1. How little qas testing my code understand the feature, the full scope of it and everything it touches. 2. How little other devs test their code.
PokeRestock@reddit
Dead field. When I started in 2017 I was Software Engineer in test within one year started doing feature work and then became SWE. Everyone expected to do features, unit testing, integration testing, functional testing, infrastructure etc. Everybody became everything for the same pay. Was good for my resume but its become too mainstream where SWE are expected to di everything
Dreadmaker@reddit
At my first job, there was no Qa. All of it was on the Dev’s shoulders - you break if you revert and fix it. At the end of that process I thought I was pretty good at the whole testing my own stuff thing. Spent 5 years doing dev work there.
My current company is in a higher stakes industry, rather than just your typical SaaS app. They have as many if not more QA than devs. It has saved my ass so many times. I love working with (good) QA at this point.
There’s absolutely bad and low effort QA out there that I think will be gone soon. But the good QA teams are rare and also critical in an age where we’re going to be doing more and more ‘trust me bro’ coding. I think they may end up being more valuable than devs, where the skill floor will continue to rise due to ai models getting better and better at what we do.
Early_Rooster7579@reddit
Dying? I feel like it’s been dead for years. No where I’ve worked has used onshore QA. Its been Africa or Philipines forever
ThroGM@reddit
Then why FAAG companies have test lead engineers?
Early_Rooster7579@reddit
They write tests, not manual QA
Rymasq@reddit
it's only a dying field because end users are more accepting than ever of being QA for bad developers and incompetent PMs that want to look good to a few investors and C levels so they push out any random feature as quickly as possible because "faster delivery is always better"
As the consumers continue to accept this enshittification of modern software, nothing changes and testing merely becomes a thing they mention in textbooks.
Evening_Pause_9763@reddit
What latest QA skills they are being asked by companies hiring for QA roles, especially with respect to AI/ML? Looking for honest opinion, experiences, feedbacks. Thanks.
tjsr@reddit
Absolutely. As with anything there's a bell curve so don't try the "hurr dure not all QAs are bad", but holy hell most are - it's usuat where the failed and drop out softeng students end up, the ones so incompetent you can't let them write code. So just like junior engineers being replaced by AI, it's the same with QAs.
OkSignificance4533@reddit
QA is "dying" not because its not important, its because organization haven't realized its importance till shit hit the fan.
kyroshd@reddit
it shouldn’t since creating all the slop is so easy, somebody needs to test it properly before reaching prod imo
lawd5ever@reddit
We have devs doing that. The person putting up the PR and the person reviewing are responsible for QA. Been working pretty well.
kyroshd@reddit
people reviewing PRs with thousands LOC made by AI is verification enough
i don’t think so
sure the dev is responsible of the code being pushed but not handwriting makes it even harder to check
just thinking out loud
lawd5ever@reddit
My point is that you do the manual QA as well, not just code reviews.
I am also a firm believer that you should aim to not put up PRs with thousands of lines. Break them down into logical smaller chunks. Makes reviewing that much easier.
drumnation@reddit
Agentic engineering feels like the job is almost all QA after you get past planning. Not sure if that means you need a QA person specifically but it does feel baked into my role now.
SeniorIdiot@reddit
Testers are one of most important role in an organization. QA is a process, not a role, team or phase. Why would the tester role or QA process end because of AI?
https://developsense.com/blog/2024/01/quality-assurance-and-testing
92smola@reddit
We have qa’s just hired a new one, the ratio is around 1 qa per 5 devs, they help a lot if they are good, now with AI even more so, cause we increased the number of bugs defects and regressions to at least the double what is was pre AI
buphmin@reddit
In the context of software development yes. IMO one of the qualifications of being a senior engineer+ is being able to being able to do a QAs job to a high degree of automation for the code you write. Thus you are extremely rarely shipping broken features and very rarely shipping without practical test coverage.
This is true with or without AI.
xelah1@reddit
In the industry I'm in (some of which is safety/mission critical) QA as an activity is unlikely to disappear, and for at least some projects it makes sense to have some people doing mostly doing QA.
In those cases it's quite formal. For example, they might need to create a test plan early on in the project, get it approved, design tests traced to requirements traced to higher level requirements, get them approved, and then carry them out manually sometimes even with a customer sat with them watching (which is why they have to be manual). There may be system-wide automated tests as well but developers will be involved with those as well.
Some parts of the industry integrate tightly with hardware and other systems - eg stuff that goes on spacecraft. It's not the bit I'm in but I can't see QA disappearing, though I imagine there's a lot more systems engineering QA than pure software engineering. They're not, after all, making a software product but rather a system which has software as a component.
ltdanimal@reddit
Hopefully so and good riddance. Unless it's QAs that are actually good software engineers that choose focus on testing AND they are part of the same org structure.
Having a separate org where "testing" is the responsibility of another group of people who are mediocre to bad devs is such a bad setup.
Always a horrible bottleneck and not fair to anyone. QAs slow things down because they feel all bugs reflect horribly on them and so are incentivized to over scrutinize. And the business sees it as their only responsibility. Almost impossible to not form silos.
SchemeMaterial2877@reddit
Yes, also developers should be self organised, but for some reason managers still exist...
LawnJames@reddit
Often they are on the same pay band as developers too.
phillythompson@reddit
Definitely.
Literally, all of our QA was laid off a big project in the last 2 months.
Replaced with automated tests (gherkin , service to service integration tests, etc)
Frostypawz@reddit
Been dead fot a while
IHoppo@reddit
We started to enforce good testing practices, unit, integration and UI, all built into the CI/CD. QA soon stopped finding bugs
Secret_Jackfruit256@reddit
Killing off QA seems to be an extremely shortsighted strategy when we all know code quality keeps going down, now accelerated by AI.
But again, this whole industry is all about shortsightedness
Expert-Reaction-7472@reddit
has been dying for years as more and more uptake of automated testing and pushing as much as possible onto devs - Fullstack DevSecOp Product Engineers is a mouthful but it's also what people want - why pay 5 salaries when you can pay one?
Interestingly with AI I feel like QA as a field/skillset becomes more important - but the expectation will be on the dev team to pick it up rather than hire a specialist.
Comfortable_Ad7513@reddit
Dead, not dying. The purpose of SDET is to push them towards SDE, but the comfort of remaining in the same place…
HettySwollocks@reddit
Personally I think their absolutely is a need for QA's, it's a different skill set to a developer. QA's need to be:
A dev in my option is:
However, as the others have said, CI, test coverage tools, complexity analysis, linting all mitigate a lot of these concerns. If they are correctly implemented you wont even get as far as a next gating, merge requests. (Entire idea behind DORA etc)
AI can be tasked to 'Fuzz' code and generate tests. You can ask it to validate common scenarios given my acceptance criteria, is anything missing etc etc.
Whilst it'll never be as perfect as a QA, it gets you 80-90% of the way there. However, if I had my way we'd still have a QA team - but often that task we delegate to a nominated user (they want the feature to work!)
mmcnl@reddit
The demand for QA will only increase. AI needs a lot more automated QA because it's relatively dumb compared to a human. AI only works well with clear feedback loops so the agent iterate without supervision. Automated QA is an essential part of that. But it's not a separate role anymore if that's what you're asking, the developer and QA role will merge.
Ok_Many_989@reddit
Has been for a while now, but personally I think AI has made it more important, as long as the QA is able to do their work without AI
satoryvape@reddit
QA, Mobile, Frontend are dying fields
so-that-is-that@reddit
I haven’t worked with a dedicated QA team since 2010. There’s been a shift where SWE write automated tests and perform manual testing.
I think the adoption of automated testing ties into more teams using automated CICD pipelines. The unit tests and integration tests can be run as part of the build & deploy process.
iComplainAbtVal@reddit
Dedicated SWE to write and perform manual testing IS QA you fucking moron.
Re7oadz@reddit
Exactly
leakingpointer123@reddit
For the last ~5 years I haven’t had a dedicated QA - explanation: we don’t have the resources, we expect devs to add integration tests and do a „sanity check” in staging.
seattlecyclone@reddit
I dunno. With more people "vibe coding", releasing software without even looking at the code and just trusting the AI to do it right, it seems like the need for someone to go through and make sure it actually works if you want a high-quality product is going to be higher than ever. At the same time, it seems that the willingness to pay for such quality checks is declining, so we're going to be stuck with a lot of buggy software.
mpanase@reddit
More vibe coding --> developers review more and test more
Developers testing more --> no need for QA people
seattlecyclone@reddit
If the developer is actually testing edge cases as rigorously as a dedicated QA person of old would have done, great! There are reasons that it was often thought smart to have a dedicated specialist doing this work, because it's not actually the same work as writing software and different people have different strengths.
Gaunts@reddit
The main issue is it’s been a back door for non technical middle managers and people who want to coast to get into software.
iComplainAbtVal@reddit
Devs have always tested. This is a horrible opinion. The focus of a dev shouldn’t be on testing, albeit, they definitely do what I call “dev testing”.
This subreddit gets more and more stupid by the day.
tms10000@reddit
Where have you been? Software engineers have been co-opted to do QA, Business Analysis, Delivery, Project management for a long time now.
FireDojo@reddit
With AI building code at so much faster, QA needed to test that for edge cases.
throwaway_0x90@reddit
I'm betting my whole career that demand for SDET/TE/QA will grow in the future,
Godunman@reddit
Largely, I think at this point if you have QA they should be creating test plans instead of manually testing. Which means they are more heavily into learning business requirements than both grunt testing and development.
Odd-Investigator-870@reddit
I'm still shocked companies even have it as a role still. Managers don't want quality, developers either know how to do it themselves or aren't allowed to do it. Anyone with a QA title is on borrowed time from the industry being slow to adapt. I recommend bailing on that career path fast like how database admins pretended to be engineers
ice_dagger@reddit
I hate the term QA. Yes you can have teams setting up e2e testing infra but they are still SDEs imho.
farzad_meow@reddit
to me it is a growing field. thanks to AI there is so much code being created that QA has high demand for testing every little thing
DigThatData@reddit
I have never in my entire career (~16 years) had the luxury of working alongside a QA team.
Kolt56@reddit
QA isn’t dying. Companies are just killing dedicated QA and pretending devs and customers will absorb the flack.
I worked at Amazon for years and never even met a QA person. “QA” was your TPM forwarding customer anecdotes and escalation emails to your EM after something already broke.
SnooSquirrels8097@reddit
Yes
TheMightyTywin@reddit
Yes. Claude code with a browser extension is a better at QA than a human and it can run nonstop
mpanase@reddit
When money was abundant companies added QA to everything. Even when they very well suspect that they are not being very useful.
Having a mix of manual testers and not-great-developers building massive test suites that don't really catch many bug (but do create quite a lot of maintenance work) didn't help either.
They were meant to disappear from non-critical projects, and that's what's been happening for years now.
phoenix823@reddit
QA as a job description for a person? Yes, that is going away. QA as a role that needs to be played by developers on a team? That will remain.
recycled_ideas@reddit
I don't think we can really say one way or another.
What is clear is that when cost cutting cycles happen, specialised roles are often the first to go.
Dedicated QA is better than getting a dev to do the same work (most of the time), but it's additional headcount and additional defects may not actually affect the bottom line, at least in the short term.
It's the same cycle which has cut into dedicated front and back end development and pushed forwards full stack. One dev that can do whatever you need at the moment is better than two that might not be fully utilitised and a crappy UX can still result in sales.
I don't think QA is going to disappear, but it's probably going to keep shrinking until and unless lower defects start resulting in higher sales.
Ironamsfeld@reddit
Qua…. Qua something.
oldDotredditisbetter@reddit
no.. it's marijuana
doctorDoakHead@reddit
I've been at the same job my whole professional career and all I have EVER see QA do is catch nit picky stuff in reviews. Missing date updates, tabs instead of spaces, indentation etc. They also catch failing builds in CI and sign off on stuff but it seems the whole job is a waste and could get rid of it.
Is this just my company? What does QA normally do that requires a brain?
travelinzac@reddit
QA was dead 3 years ago
Pandas1104@reddit
At my company we still use them but they are transitioning from manual QA to utilizing AI to test. We have QA separate from the Devs because we feel it offers good checks and balances. Having multiple people look at a ticket and feature and think about it in different ways it has created better more comprehensive features. Product ends up being the tie breaker.
binarycow@reddit
Considering my CEO recently said "Developers, do your own QA. The QA folks are now developers".... Yeah, I'd say so.
Jinga1@reddit
Manual has been slow dying, AI will probably end it. Qa automation powered by AI/specialized agents will like become a thing.
nneiole@reddit
Most of my Uni mates, who originally were QAs, are now PMs or POs. Interestingly enough, I interview software engineering juniors for an internship program, and more often than before, I meet juniors, who already did an internship and their duties was writing automated tests only, no feature development.
Afraid-Street-3859@reddit
any data on QA job trends?
thecodingart@reddit
It’s already dead…
adambkaplan@reddit
I see two trends, especially with agentic SDLC workflows:
The days of QA being “I manually test the application and write bug reports” have been going the way of the dodo for a decade (or more). That sort of work is being taken on by product managers who have the high level/holistic view of the software.
Odd_Perspective3019@reddit
Yes it’s dying i can get my AI to write all my unit tests integration tests in 1 day we don’t need QA and if that wasn’t the case in your company that means u didn’t have a good testing framework in place, all code engineers merge should have proper tests at all levels we don’t need special QA for that unless you work with physical devices
False_Secret1108@reddit (OP)
Just fyi qa never did these kind of tests. E2E is a more advanced than what you're talking about
Odd_Perspective3019@reddit
bro it’s never that advanced i did QA before i moved to Dev half the time you’re arguing with them to put quality time or half the time arguing with dev because their upset at you for the bugs you logged, no one in that field is doing anything so advanced an engineer can’t do, i can have agent setup selenium and do it all
ZukowskiHardware@reddit
I’ve never used QA, I think it is the responsibility of the developer to check their own stuff. I’ve had some interesting API testers, but nothing they found was that valuable to me. I think QA creates a “throw the shit over the wall” mentality where you are just trying to get your garbage past the goalie.
Mundane-Charge-1900@reddit
Yes, it has been dying for decades. Both big tech and startups have largely gotten rid of it except for low paid, off shore contractors years and years ago.
hojimbo@reddit
I thought it died like 8 years ago.
drcforbin@reddit
I think the roles are splitting. We really need QA and testers (dedicated V&V people) that know software and can write and run tests, but the automated testing, CI/CD, and devops parts are rolling into developer roles. I'm in medical devices and for us it's about compliance, the more-V&V teams need to be separate from the development teams and responsibilities shift
purplepinkpotatoes@reddit
We haven't had a dedicated QA in our company for a while. It's workable since quality should be everyone's job and devs make their own Unit and Automated tests but I still think a dedicated QA is a plus.
thepaddedroom@reddit
I think QA as a field has continual struggles not for lack of need, but because it's an attractive segment to cut when the money folks are short-sighted. It doesn't help that "QA" covers a wide spectrum of ability from manual clickers to automation SDETs.
I don't think increasing the velocity of developer output is going to reduce the need to check the quality of that output. It sort of depends on the appetite for risk. Some more highly regulated sectors (healthcare, insurance, law, etc) have larger consequences for flawed output.
Anecdotally: Last month, the CTO pushed a multi-thousand line vibe-coded change directly without talking to anybody in QA, going through a PR, or really any of the gateway processes. He was very excited about the new UI and was very angry afterwards when it turned out his big change broke a lot of shit. There wasn't test automation in place for many of the things he broke. Not that it would have mattered if there was because, again, he side-stepped all the gateway processes and didn't tell anybody what he was changing. There's now a lot of new work for QA in trying to get tests going for the new things he introduced and old things which ideally should have already had tests. I imagine those tests are tech debt that somebody punted on in the past to keep up the appearance of high output.
The QA person who caught the majority of the shit in the fallout from that put in their notice. Didn't want to work for a jerk.
I work on a different part of the product as a SDET and I'm relatively new to the company. I'm hoping the dude who put in his notice finds something decent and quick. I'm also hoping that his departure doesn't become new work for me.
thebig77@reddit
I'm a former QA person turned software developer. I do think "QA" as in people who just manually tested software for adherence to business requirements is definitely out and probably should be.
More niche quality assurance roles that are industry specific or require deep domain knowledge will always be needed IMO (thinking of stuff like video games) or software developers who specialize in testing.
ledatherockband_@reddit
Our QA team is having to get more sophisticated.
SnugglyCoderGuy@reddit
Yes, and it should die. QA is just part of the development process. There is data to suggest that having dedicated QA is a negative force and results in outcomes that are inferior to those without dedicated QA.
Mountain_Sandwich126@reddit
I feel like im taking crazy pills where asshole leadership are dying on "manual qa" hill.
Big banks are so far behind its laughable, im working at a "scale up" that took all of their leaders from a big bank.
Here is the kicker. They are building claude "frameworks " to essentially replace qa. I can't fucking make this shit up.
mudskips@reddit
In the past several years, developers, QA, and ops roles have folded into the SWE role. You rarely see QA engineers anymore.
imdshizzle@reddit
There seems to be less demands for manual QA now. SDET roles are becoming very technical to the point they have to be a junior developer. As a SDET myself I was asked about Graph traversal and algorithm interview questions. I consider myself technical, i write UI and performance tests using TypeScript. I also write tests in Python and maintain the CI/CD pipeline. I built an internal app that shows the automated test reports from the pipelines in a centralized place now. I built the app myself using JavaScript and Python. I’m enjoying writing programming so much that I’m considering a switch to become a backend engineer for my next role. Let’s see how the market plays out in next few years.
norse95@reddit
We still have QA/QEs but its a non-coding position. Basically end to end tester plus 3rd party vendor expert (salesforce in this case). Super lucky to have them on my team
GaTechThomas@reddit
QA died a couple of decades ago. It just keeps on stumbling around and approving things after a few weeks of poking.
Velvet_thunder9@reddit
Yes it was dying before AI now it’s a dead field with AI. My skip level told my manager to introduce better test automation suites for our product so that we can get rid of our 1 QA, its pretty brutal
RoadKill_11@reddit
Most big tech companies (FAANG) make all devs write their own tests. The idea is that since you’re the one building something, you understand it better than anyone else so you would be the best person to test it too. And learning how to test your code well makes you a more reliable developer as well
magichronx@reddit
In my position as a contracted software engineer, I technically have a QA person but honestly I wonder what she does other than copy and paste bullshit into a spread and create jira tickets with the exact same C&P content.
activematrix99@reddit
Yes, it's dying.
chain_letter@reddit
Honestly yeah. The industry is embracing slopping it up and also cutting headcount. Along with weakened regulations for lower risk of consequences, when that's relevant.
QA as a role is doomed imo.
Mediocre-Pizza-Guy@reddit
I feel like QA has been dying for decades. It's really a shame too... Especially with AI the way it is, QA would be more valuable than ever.
QA was always kind of looked down upon, IMHO. Like 'If you weren't good enough to be a dev...consider QA' but I always hated that and a good QA person could have such a huge impact on the product.
Oh well.
Responsible_Month385@reddit
It’s possible that QA will have a huge rebound once more services start experiencing frequent downtime due to abundance of AI slop.
Anecdotally, my org still invests in QA. Less so than years before (not unlike engineering) but it’s still really valuable. I don’t see them completely removing it here.
Early_Rooster7579@reddit
I think it will too but most QA is outsourced to Africa or the Philippines now
False_Secret1108@reddit (OP)
I mean for the most part that kind of QA is very manual
mltcllm@reddit
dev needs to be QA, PM and now with the AI we also need to be manager. crazy why we allow this to happen.
newcaravan@reddit
It’s something that is nice to have, but tends to not be life or death. In this world of cut throat cost cutting businesses, those are the first to go.
CallinCthulhu@reddit
Its in hospice.
Bitter-Apple-7929@reddit
Absolutely not
imLissy@reddit
I haven’t had anyone besides the devs on our team test my code since 2011.
Teh_Original@reddit
Not many seem to care enough about quality to push back against management, so it will probably keep reducing.
Dangerous-Sale3243@reddit
Yes, been that way even before AI. There’s barely such a thing as a “good at testing” skill, so any software engineer should be able to write tests. Youd still see it at legacy shops or contractors that had to serve a contract based on a template written in 1998, but even that is washing away.
tuna_safe_dolphin@reddit
Yes, and I did it for years. I moved on to infra/cloud + backend development about 10-11 years ago (should have started much sooner) and now I'm like everybody else - agentic AI agenticist.
However. . . it might be possible to swing into a niche AI QA role. One (of many let's face it) big problem with AI code generation, you really need good tests in place. And yes, the tools make it easy to generate tests really quickly too but. . . just like regular application code, you need someone with a brain, a human, to keep the agents in line.
I've seen Claude do some really sneaky shit just to make tests pass. I also caught Claude adding backwards compatibility to keep old tests passing, in other words, some functionality had changes, but Claude kept the old code too, so the old tests would still pass. Instead of you know, updating the fucking tests along with the new target code.
EyesOfAzula@reddit
I think companies that focus on precision will still value automated testing even more now.
Software engineering can do basic automation, testing, and work with AI, but skilled SDETs can take it to another level and educate engineers across the company into better testing practices than what those engineers can figure out themselves while working on their normal work.
Spare_Helicopter4655@reddit
Bro it's been dead.
mq2thez@reddit
Yes, but it has been for a long time. CI/CD made QA a lot less critical, because fast deploy/revert means it’s cheaper to monitor production for errors than to exhaustively prevent them or slow down rate of deploys.
In environments where it’s expensive or slow to revert / roll forward (mobile dev, payments platforms, government stuff, embedded deploys), QA will remain present.
But everywhere I’ve worked in 16 YOE has laid off QA first. If there’s a layoff, QA is going. Shit sucks, because they’re often underpaid and super high impact, but it’s hard to show the value of preventing things from breaking.
lightmatter501@reddit
I think so. You used to be able to hire people on for QA and promote them to engineering after they had proven that they know what they’re talking about, but at this point people can’t trust companies to keep them around long enough for that kind of pathway to work.
brrnr@reddit
Just made this transition myself and it really feels like I caught the last chopper out of Nam. My company is no longer hiring SDETs and placing the burden entirely on engineers under the guise of "shift-left." I assume there won't be any QA left within a year or two, tops.
Nezrann@reddit
I think in the vast majority of applications it is getting absorbed by dev - some fields still value having true SDETs for verification and build pipelines, mainly embedded.
I started as a full-stack dev on a product that failed and got turned into an SDET for embedded hardware and have good prospects - our team is expanding and I'm going to be leading it.
That is to say, I'm in a tech hub that is almost all embedded lmao.
endurbro420@reddit
I suspect this could be a cyclical type of thing. It is definitely getting cut in many places for the reasons you described. I think you are correct that many companies are letting their customers be the testers and relying of fast follow releases to patch.
We may see it come back around if enough customers complain that they are getting shoddy releases (It is already happening at my company). But even with that said the emphasis is still to release fast vs ensuring what is released is quality. The execs can say “shift left” until they are blue in the face, but with many devs pushing code they didn’t even write nor understand, serious bugs will likely become more common.
When ai is told to test things it currently seems to accept whatever the current behavior is as correct and can’t determine between a regression and a feature change. I just tried to have ai convert a test suit from one tech stack to a more modern one and it decided that instead of actually converting the steps, it would just create stub methods that write to the logger and return passing. Naturally that doesn’t work.
If companies actually go back to focusing on releasing quality is unknown. With everything else following the enshitification model, I am not overly confident.
kagato87@reddit
Certainly seems like it with some of our vendors...
Rich_Plant2501@reddit
Technically, shift left testing is going to be more prominent if developers delegate more menial tasks to AI.
Vinen@reddit
Its been dead for a decade
Independent-Newt2009@reddit
I thought it was already dead
Pleasant-Cellist-927@reddit
There's been a push to offload the QA onto the developers themselves. This fails to account to for the fact that most developers are actually pretty shit at thinking of edge case scenarios, points of failure and both mitigating them in advance as well as prepping runbooks for what to do in the event that it goes wrong. AKA actually thinking like a QA and not just being able to write automated tests and call it a day.
SkullLeader@reddit
I think even before AI started taking hold there was a shift away from QA towards more reliance on unit testing or devs creating their own automated tests. QA is seen as an expense that does not directly produce value especially for internal, non-customer facing software. From management’s standpoint, Its easier to not pay for QA, let errors happen and blame the devs when they do. Just whitewash away the fact that developers tend to not think of everything that can go wrong and blame them for being imperfect, instead of acknowledging that they’re getting exactly what they (did not) pay for.
allknowinguser@reddit
My company culled 90% of SDETs about 4 years now. They moved them to devs role and those were go couldn’t meet dev standards were let go. They had about 1 year assimilation period. Senior SDETs moved to SWE2s and similar for other roles. SDETs that did remain provide what I believe is almost no value. Glorified messengers
MrEs@reddit
Yes I've not worked in a business with qa in 12 years. It's so been automated