CFI with all qualifications looking for regional airline job - no luck after a year+
Posted by HotBackground5187@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 93 comments
My husband was in a plane crash in a Cessna in Sept 2024. He was the instructor when the engine went out and got them down as safely as possible. Neither were hurt at all but plane was wrecked. There is a preliminary report that states mechanical failure, but the NTSB has not yet published the final report. For context he is a CFII with \~2000 TT but only 25 multi. He got an interview with SkyWest that went very well and they reviewed his application for 2 weeks post interview, then asked for more info about the crash. The only other document he could provide was a letter from the chief mechanic stating what happened and that he made safe and correct decisions to save them. Skywest reviewed this for another 2 weeks, but then ultimately rejected him for liability reasons.
Will he be able to get any job before the final report is published? Are any regionals actually hiring candidates with 25 multi or do you need more? Wha other options does he have that pay more than instructing? Any help and advice is very welcome - my husband feels very defeated and says there’s nothing he can do except wait, but I want to understand more about what’s realistic. Thank you so much in advance.
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Your husband doesn't have "all qualifications." He has the bare minimum experience with an incident on his record.
The market is tough. There's nothing from what you've given us that makes him stand out to a hiring manager.
the_devils_advocates@reddit
On top of that, I don’t get these spouse/SO posts. Why isn’t the dude himself posting…
BlimpDriver1@reddit
She needs him to get a paycheck, he needs to realize he wasn't at fault, that takes more time.
scaledandIsolated20@reddit
There are people out there (my fiance as one) who absolutely hate Reddit or just don’t care for it. I don’t use X for example. I know people who don’t even have instagram or facebook. Not everyone is chronically on social media asking for others opinions.
BoboTheLhasaDog@reddit
BC he told her in 2021 that this aviation gig would be easy as pie.
Found out.
HotBackground5187@reddit (OP)
This is so accurate 🤦🏻♀️
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Probably some single dude pretending so he doesn't get flamed.
HotBackground5187@reddit (OP)
Sorry, I guess I meant minimum quals. He does have an ATP certificate though.
As a disclaimer, I do not know everything, only what my husband has told me and what I’ve gleaned from research. Totally understand that the market is tough and he doesn’t stand out. What would make him more hirable though, just more multi time? And is the only way to do that by renting a plane and doing it that way (expensive) or becoming an MEI? Which, most flight schools around here don’t really have MEI opportunities (and he says they’re hard to get?) to actually gain time so he’s hesitant to pay to become a multi instructor if it doesn’t lead to a job.
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Are you talking about his ATP-CTP certificate, or does he hold an actual airline transport pilot certificate? If so, he should be looking at 91K like NetJets, or 135s in the area.
boobooaboo@reddit
Spirit FO’s took jobs at regionals. Hard to compete with that
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Anecdotal. A lot of them came to the legacies...a lot.
boobooaboo@reddit
I know. But ask me how I know about NK FO’s going to RJ’s
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
HOW DO YOU KNOW?!!?
boobooaboo@reddit
I’m one of them
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Boooo I don't like that story.
I'm sure you don't either.
boobooaboo@reddit
It was boring, my apologies
SirDarkStar@reddit
It started strong, maybe workshop the ending a bit, personalize it, people like a relatable character. :)
boobooaboo@reddit
TMAAT…
Funny_Yesterday_5040@reddit
Oooh I love these... how do you know about NK FOs going to RJs?
boobooaboo@reddit
Coz I’m one of them
Funny_Yesterday_5040@reddit
Welcome!
Penaple01@reddit
Just because I am not educated on this-
Assuming everything about the incident is true (mechanical failure, letter of rec that PIC acted appropriately, and no live lost) why would this act against him?
From the outside looking in, the fact that he appropriately handled a (non pilot-induced) emergency would be a vote of confidence that he can react to real emergencies appropriately.
Could you elaborate on this for me?
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
The final report hasn't been released. So everything is conjecture until that point. Having an unresolved incident on your record is not a good thing.
Just like getting in a car accident that's not your fault...your rates might still go up.
Penaple01@reddit
Thank you!!
After the report comes out, assuming there isn’t anything negative about the pilot, would this still be a negative? Or would it just be considered inherent to the risks of GA?
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
It will still be a negative, but not a big deal. He has to check yes to the "have you had an incident or accident" question on any job application. There's usually a space to talk about it, and it will come up in a future interview.
But if you're an HR hiring manager or a computer sorting applications...who are you going to pick? The guy with 3000 TT and a clean record, or the guy with 3000TT and an incident?
FAShamShield@reddit
FO with 900 hours. Military guys don’t take this advice
de_rats_2004_crzy@reddit
Maybe unpopular opinion but not having ATP experience when applying to (and expecting to be reasonably competitive to) FO job doesn’t sound unusual at all.
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
Ehhh depends on timing. Having an ATP certificate already in hand to get hired at a regional has never really been a hard requirement, and certainly hasn't been necessary (though varying degrees of preferred) for like ten years at this point. Your first type rating legally covers that base anyway.
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
I never said it was unusual. I said it was bare minimum. Always has been.
minfremi@reddit
I was expecting an airship rating
Temporary-Map6470@reddit
I was in basically the same situation except the plane had no damage. I interviewed with SkyWest a couple months ago and got the same email after the interview. I gave them the FAA inspectors name and phone number and told them they could contact him and it seemed to be good enough for them since I got a CJO a week later. I asked the inspector if they ever reached out and he said no. I was a cadet and I had about 80 multi time at the time. I think if he gets his multi time up or stands out in some other way he can find something! Maybe look for a 91 op in the meantime
Salt_Examination770@reddit
Barely any multi engine time, no Jet time. I’m sorry to tell you, but that won’t hold a candle in the hiring pool. Why does he have 2000hrs single engine but only 25 multi and no jet experience? Not getting hired in today’s climate. Plenty of ex-Spirit pilots with thousands of hours on Airbus will get the job first.
UnluckyCucumber0@reddit
He definitely needs more multi engine time. At least 75+ hours ideally
HotBackground5187@reddit (OP)
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. Did you pay to rent a plane for hours or did you somehow find a job as an MEI? It just seems like there’s no simple way to get them - ie, most 135 jobs require more multi hours to get hired in the first place, MEI jobs are hard to come by, and renting a plane for the hours is so expensive.
BlimpDriver1@reddit
I had an accident as a CFI. The FAA interviewed me, has your husband been interviewed by the FAA? After the interview with the FAA, I asked for a copy of their report. The report stated I probably was the reason myself and the passenger survived. We both had skeletal injuries, nothing internal.
Once I had the copy of the FAA report, it became part of my application packet. Get the FAA to give you a copy of their report. They are not the NTSB, their report is finished.
HotBackground5187@reddit (OP)
Thank you for this, and for being kind. He was interviewed at the time of the accident, that would have been the FAA right? Does their final report count for as much as the NTSB?
BlimpDriver1@reddit
The FAA are the enforcement wing of aviation. They determine any actions that may be taken against an aviator. The NTSB covers all forms of transportation, the FAA is the only voice I'm going to listen to when hiring or deciding whether or not a pilot should be reprimanded.
bootyhole_licker69@reddit
regional hiring cooled off a lot and they can be picky now. 25 multi is rough, he’s on the low side plus the accident hanging out there. i’d look at 91/135 cargo, pipeline, banner, anything to build multi while waiting. finding anything decent now is just insanely hard
Goop290@reddit
I second the 135 stuff
Wedge_Donovan@reddit
Which 135s are hiring people with 25 multi?
Goop290@reddit
Ones that fly single engine...
HotBackground5187@reddit (OP)
He’s had a hard time getting 135 that hire with only 25 multi. Do you mind sharing some examples of places fly single engine with a path to multi? Also, he claims if you go down the 135 route it’s hard to get back to airlines, is this true?
Goop290@reddit
Take a look at the cargo feeders. Many have a path to a twin. Or start in a twin. At this current time in the industry I believe if you arnt in a cadet program at an airline, then 135 time will boost you above other cfi level candidates. Even 135 single turbo will make you more appealing to an airline as 135 training is similar amd turbo time is always a good thing.
takeoffconfig@reddit
Any 135 with Argus/Wyvern won't pick them up due to their rules on incidents in the past few years regardless of fault. Kinda dumb, but the way it is unfortunately.
Wedge_Donovan@reddit
Plus Argus & Wyvern usually require at least 500 multi.
Elegant-Process-3063@reddit
In 2011 it took me 3000TT and 1000 ME to just get an interview. That’s with a CFI CFII MEI.
Go get some time instructing in multi’s.
HotBackground5187@reddit (OP)
Getting time instructing multi’s is easier said than done, no? I know I seem naive (i am) but what’s the process to be able to do this?
jtyson1991@reddit
Obtain the multi engine instructor ("MEI") rating, and then start teaching in multi engine planes, like a Seminole.
HotBackground5187@reddit (OP)
That’s what I thought, but are there many roles instructing in multi engine planes? It seems like those are hard to come by. I’m guessing it’s better to have the rating and at least start looking than do nothing though.
jtyson1991@reddit
Yes, there are fewer roles than for single engine, and the flying is more dangerous as well.
Ted_Striker02@reddit
Are you me? Lol. 4 years of CFI-ing just so I could get hired at a regional to make $22/hr lol. And I only got that job because a friend personally walked my app in. Who knows how long I would have waited if it wasn’t for him.
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
But ATP promised me I'd be a legacy captain in 2 years!
ltcterry@reddit
Waiting isn’t going to fix anything. It won’t add competitiveness to his logbook.
No one is going to hold an engine failure against him. I can’t imagine someone told him any reason for not hiring him, let alone that.
He does need to work on getting “all the qualifications” for employment that one or both of you seem to think he has; 2023 was a long time ago.
HotBackground5187@reddit (OP)
Correct, they did not tell him that. A recruiter who works for SkyWest told him that’s was the most likely reason because they’re risk averse.
I should not have said all qualifications, I meant minimums to apply I guess. He does have a bachelor’s degree and ATP certificate. It sounds like more multi is what he needs?
ltcterry@reddit
He doesn't have an ATP if he only has 25 hours multiengine experience. It requires 50.
Or, are you talking about the ATP-CTP course? It has a graduation certificate.
hanjaseightfive@reddit
There is something he can do except wait; he can add an MEI while working on his 4 year degree (assuming he doesn’t have one).
HotBackground5187@reddit (OP)
He has a 4 year degree. Does having MEI help even if you can’t get a job as one?
us1549@reddit
Are you sure this is related to his accident and not the tough job market?
M2K-throwaway@reddit
If they actually told him it's because of liability then yeah
us1549@reddit
I'm not saying OP is lying but very few employers will outright tell you the reason you didn't get the job.
Too much liability for them
HotBackground5187@reddit (OP)
You are correct, they didn’t outright tell him. He is friends with a recruiter at the company who told him that’s the most likely reason. I also feel like if they didn’t think he had enough hours why would they waste their time interviewing him then?
Rangeexpert3@reddit
If the employer didn't like the accident, they wouldn't have wasted time inviting him for an interview in the first place.
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
They would never say that
They don’t give a reason why they won’t hire you
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
I'm suing them for telling me why they won't hire me!
Rangeexpert3@reddit
I would assume the accident was disclosed on the application. If that's the case, then obviously they would never have wasted their time interviewing OPs spouse if the accident would have prevented him from being hired.
RoodysRun@reddit
Bet GoJet would hire him.
Sweaty_Delivery_2750@reddit
Curious why GoJet?
RoodysRun@reddit
Because they are hiring.
Euphoric_System7883@reddit
Has he tried Netjets?
Wedge_Donovan@reddit
Lol, wut?
Several-Village5814@reddit
😂With 25 multi
Simple_Match_1815@reddit
Not likely and at a bare minimum they required 50multi and ATPCTP/ written complete back when they were hiring 1500tt guys. 1-2 sneak in every other class or so but ive heard 2200tt prior 135/ turbine is heavily preferred if neither 500+ multi. Throw on he had an accident with no finished report chances are slim to none.
LikenSlayer@reddit
CBP Hiring pilots. Have high school friend flys for them living in the Caribbean he gross over 200k. I know it's not the most desired salary. But its honest work & better than CFI
https://www.airlineapps.com/jobs/details.aspx?emp=U.S.-Customs-and-Border-Protection&job=Air-Interdiction-Agent-(Pilot)
fender8421@reddit
I remember mentioning this in my 141 program in college. Never felt so shrugged off and disregarded in my life. Stilll don't get it
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
Because you won't be making 200k in the Caribbean, you'll be making like 70k living in Yuma AZ. Maybe even relegated to drones depending on several things you have zero control over.
fender8421@reddit
Fair enough!
Seeing it as a career never sounded appealing, but was always curious how it worked as a "foot in the door" position
LikenSlayer@reddit
141 programs have tunnel vision to get you to 121's that it. There's a huge aviation industry besides airlines. So big its nutts!
brongchong@reddit
Need a few hundred multi
nolaflygirl@reddit
I'm struck by the fact that your husband isn't on here asking the question.
And while he's waiting on the NTSB report, he already knows what else he needs to be competitive -- ATP, MEI -- as others have said.
Does he have any volunteer hrs.? He can fly missions for the CAP (Civil Air Patrol) where he might make valuable connections. Since it's the civilian branch of the Air Force, it will certainly look good on future résumés!
I also agree w/ looking for other flying jobs like corporate or charter.
legitSTINKYPINKY@reddit
He definitely told her “idk why I can’t get hired I have way more than the minimums”
nolaflygirl@reddit
You're right bc she wrote, "...with ALL qualifications..." (emphasis mine).
Imperial_Citizen_00@reddit
She’ll go to the interview for him to, maybe she’ll get hired 🤣
nolaflygirl@reddit
Right! 🤣
BRZMonkey@reddit
Did they specify it was due to liability?
legitSTINKYPINKY@reddit
Almost certainly they didn’t.
VileInventor@reddit
He needs 50 hours of multi. Among other things.
Historical-Pin1069@reddit
Why do you need to post this instead of him doing it?
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
Hiring is really rough now. A lot of people can’t even get cfi jobs. Given he has the bare minimum of multi and no atp that would already put him at the lower choice for hiring. The crash probably didn’t help even if he is not deemed at fault by the Ntsb report.
If he can, he should continue instructing, maybe get his Mei or atp written done. Part 135 ops are also an option.
bhalter80@reddit
If the accident was in 2024 the report should be out any day now. A club I'm.in had a gear up which substantially damaged the plane and the report was out within 9 months.
The only thing I could see slowing this down to the point that we're 18 months in is the owner of the plane fighting the conclusions of the report.
Your husband should be able to point to the preliminary report either way that's usually out in a month or two
Negative_Swan_9459@reddit
He needs to do the opposite of sit around and wait.
Go bang down doors anywhere that has an airplane with two engines. The last time things were remotely competitive at regionals 500ME, jet/turboprop time, 4 year degree— were all looked at favorably and common in new hires.
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
They can be picky now unfortunately
KehreAzerith@reddit
He's gonna need 135 time to be competitive, also will likely have to wait for that final report so he has certified proof that the accident wasn't his fault
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
My husband was in a plane crash in a Cessna in Sept 2024. He was the instructor when the engine went out and got them down as safely as possible. Neither were hurt at all but plane was wrecked. There is a preliminary report that states mechanical failure, but the NTSB has not yet published the final report. For context he is a CFII with \~2000 TT but only 25 multi. He got an interview with SkyWest that went very well and they reviewed his application for 2 weeks post interview, then asked for more info about the crash. The only other document he could provide was a letter from the chief mechanic stating what happened and that he made safe and correct decisions to save them. Skywest reviewed this for another 2 weeks, but then ultimately rejected him for liability reasons.
Will he be able to get any job before the final report is published? Are any regionals actually hiring candidates with 25 multi or do you need more? Wha other options does he have that pay more than instructing? Any help and advice is very welcome - my husband feels very defeated and says there’s nothing he can do except wait, but I want to understand more about what’s realistic. Thank you so much in advance.
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