European needs advise for a 12 gauge

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moving0target@reddit

Remington 870 is my goto. For simplicity sake, I lean toward a pump.

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mikemitch38@reddit

Mossberg 500 security and field combo. Comes with both a 28” barrel for hunting and a 18.5” barrel for defense. You can swap barrels in 30 seconds.

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ElmoZ71SS@reddit

This....best of both worlds and a solid action.

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ChimuFCLG@reddit (OP)

I was tjinking about that or a 590 if i get a pump, but y read somewhere that mossbergs quality has lowered in the last years, is that true?

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AD3PDX@reddit

It’s Remington which has been shit for going on 20 years. Mossberg is good

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Mossberg pumps haven't lowered in quality. Remember that a pump shot gun has to meet 1 criteria: Does it keep running? As long as that answer is yes, the "quality" is fine. Mossbergs generally wont win any beauty contests, but they run and keep running.

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ChimuFCLG@reddit (OP)

Between the 500 and the 590 what would be the best option? Sorry about that many questions, but in my country there is really little info about this kind of stuff

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rednecktuba1@reddit

Whichever offers the features you want at a cheaper price point. The 500 is the same action as the 590 as far as I know. The 590 is the civilian market version of the pump that mossberg sells to the US military.

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REDACTED3560@reddit

The 590 is an older version of the 590A1. Both were intended for military service, but IIRC there were some revisions the military wanted that ultimately became the A1 version. Civilians can buy both versions, so the 590 isn’t simply the civilian copy.

Realistically, the 590 is the middle ground between the 500 and the 590A1. The A1 is a tank, but as such is heavier and more expensive than the 500. The 590 uses a thinner barrel and a few polymer pieces instead of metal to cut weight and costs while still remaining more durable than a 500 (an already solid gun).

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MarianCR@reddit

There are some improvements for reliability. I think dual extractor is one of them. But for OP, 500 should be fine

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ChimuFCLG@reddit (OP)

Good. My only knowledge about shotguns is the supernova tactical that i had to qualify for in my job.

Mossberg here cost half of the benelli prices, thats good.

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TacTurtle@reddit

For all practical and mechanical purposes the 500 /590 / 835 are the same gun, the 590 and 835 just use a magazine tube cap instead of a screw (allows for easier cleaning and adding a magazine extension) and the 835 is a 3.5" receiver instead of a 3".

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TacTurtle@reddit

Mossberg quality is fine; Remington quality tanked about 15 years ago when they were bought out by a Venture Capital group and has never recovered after the bankruptcy.

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snippysniper@reddit

19 years ago lol. 2007

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Ute_Swoop@reddit

Only the express models, police magnums have always been solid even during the buyout 15 years ago, they’ve always been made in a separate manufacturing areas at the plant with the highest QC possible, since most of them were destined for law enforcement agencies.

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Ok_Ordinary6694@reddit

590A1 is your boy. More expensive, heavier, more robust.

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Diligent-Parfait-236@reddit

I was going to recommend the 500/88 7rd 20", the the 590 is also a good option.

Barrel length for hunting is a personal preference thing, unless you're already practiced on swinging a long shotgun I recommend against the combo or long barrel version.

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il1k3c3r34l@reddit

This is the correct and only answer.

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preparedbassfisher@reddit

I'd get a traditional pump shot gun, semi auto shot guns while cool aren't good enough to justify the 2 round mag

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ChimuFCLG@reddit (OP)

The 2 round is only while hunting, when in the range or the "situation" there is no limitation. In the semiauto world, the only good option in my country is the 1301, the resto cost 3000 euros or are turkish low quality tools.

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ShireHorseRider@reddit

Is the 2 round mag one in the pipe & two in the magazine? American waterfowl hunters have the same restriction. We just remove the dowel to fit more capacity when we are not hunting. It’s no more difficult that unscrewing the cap on the front of the tube magazine & removing the dowel/spacer.

Having said that, I love my Benelli SX3 because it is a lot nicer to shoot that my pump guns.

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ChimuFCLG@reddit (OP)

Here the same, only while hunting

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preparedbassfisher@reddit

I'd still go with a pump

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ChimuFCLG@reddit (OP)

Thanks!

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AD3PDX@reddit

Normally I advise against a pump action but in your case it’s a much better choice.

Do have Mossbergs? If the model below is available it’s the best weapon for the job because you can use spacers to adjust the length of pull of the stock, and you can easily mount a flashlight so you can see what you are shooting at which is a fundamental safety rule.

The other reason to suggest a 590S is the “S” models can feed 1.75” mini shells. If shells like these:

https://www.federalpremium.com/shotshell/shorty-shotshell/11-SH129+RS.html

Are available to you then you’d have 9+1 rounds of capacity and very light recoil.

But a gun like this looks like what it is, a weapon. If you have to defend yourself is that going to get you charged with a crime (or convicted)? If yes then something traditional looking could be better. So you need to really think about how valid your concerns about the appearance are.

590S MAGPUL - HOLOSUN MICRO DOT #51606

Also any 590 (but not 500) can accept the magpul forend which allows for the practical and ergonomic use of a light. It’s possible to simply clamp a light on to the barrel but it’s not practical in use.

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ChimuFCLG@reddit (OP)

Is not that a kitted gun will make you guilty, but here guns and self defense are a very spicy topic. (for example, i hace a ccw permit, but i should only carry fmj ammo because is considered safer, what is crazy, if you carry hollow points it depends on the judges mood if you use it)

If the gun that gets to the evidence room is a benelli m4 full of hornady slugs with a flaslight and an aimpont t2... That doesnt make you guilty, but the average judge would think that you are some crazy killer. If its a pump or a double barrel with birdshot maybe he will be more inclined to think that you are just a poor hunter who panicked.

A buddy of mine owns 2 shotguns. A fully kitted 1301 that he uses in the range, and a 150 euros used double barrell. Guess which one he bought for security reasons...

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AD3PDX@reddit

In that case I’d go against suggestions for a field/security combo because having the 18.5” on is a deliberate decision and it doesn’t have it’s own sporting purpose.

I think that means choosing between a Mossberg with a 24’ slug barrel and an 870 with a 21” vent ribbed barrel.

Of course your options there might be different but what I’d want in your context is a 21’ vent ribbed Mossberg which as far as ai know doesn’t exist.

Either way throw a youth stock on it so you can shoulder it with a proper mobile tactical squared stance. Side benefit is shortening the overall length without having a scary tactical short barrel.

I’d still try to look at getting or configuring some sort of 590S in the mini shells are available because of the reduced recoil.

Oh and slugs or buck. Definitely not birdshot regardless of what a judge thinks.

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ChimuFCLG@reddit (OP)

Is not that a kitted gun will make you guilty, but here guns and self defense are a very spicy topic. (for example, i hace a ccw permit, but i should only carry fmj ammo because is considered safer, what is crazy, if you carry hollow points it depends on the judges mood if you use it)

If the gun that gets to the evidence room is a benelli m4 full of hornady slugs with a flaslight and an aimpont t2... That doesnt make you guilty, but the average judge would think that you are some crazy killer. If its a pump or a double barrel with birdshot maybe he will be more inclined to think that you are just a poor hunter who panicked.

A buddy of mine owns 2 shotguns. A fully kitted 1301 that he uses in the range, and a 150 euros used double barrell. Guess which one he bought for security reasons...

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lube7255@reddit

First choice is hard agree on the Mossberg 500-series shotguns, would follow that with anything in their 900-series for semi-auto. Beretta has the a300 in semi, as well as the 1301, but the a300 is easily as capable for less. Then there's the Turkish brands, Tisas seems to be trying their best to not make hot garbage, so if the first two brands aren't available, maybe go with them.

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uChoice_Reindeer7903@reddit

I think the pump is a no brainer here. What are your laws on lever guns?

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ChimuFCLG@reddit (OP)

Every rifle (bolt, lever, semi) require a gun safe and a hunting license. Each shot is more than 2 euros.

Because of my job and sport shooter license, a shotgun only requires paying it.

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uChoice_Reindeer7903@reddit

Sorry, what do you mean by “a shot gun only requires paying it”? Paying what? And why is different for shotgun vs lever, I would think a lever gun would be viewed the same as a pump action shotgun.

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ChimuFCLG@reddit (OP)

I mean that i only have to pay the shotgun and thats it, because im an sport shooter and my license covers shotguns.

Lever action shotgun you mean? I've never seen one in my country, so i thought that you meaned lever action rifle, that are more common.

Here, any rifled barrel gun requires a lot paperwork, unless is a 22lr, and i already own a cz 527.

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uChoice_Reindeer7903@reddit

Ah I see, makes sense. No, I was referring to lever action rifle, I didn’t realize it was separate paperwork for lever action vs pump shotgun, I figured they would be in the same class of gun.

As far as lever action shotguns, I know there’s quite a few options in 410 but beyond that I think it’s very limited. And if home security is your goal I’d stick with 12 gauge or 20 gauge pump anyway.

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ChimuFCLG@reddit (OP)

Yeah, the paperwork is a shame, i would love a good marlin in 30-30 for self defense, i would look sick with a bandoleer full of bullets and smoking a cigar...

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robertva1@reddit

Can't go wrong with a pump auction....plus it has the distinctive sound of chambering a round that sends most bad guys running with out you ever having to fire a shot

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sumguyontheinternet1@reddit

Pump mossberg 500

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ChimuFCLG@reddit (OP)

Thanks, everybody said that model, maybe there is a good reason.

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TacTurtle@reddit

The Mossberg 500 family is the fastest selling pump shotgun in the world with over 12,000,000 sold, and has been adapted by the US Marine Corps after passing a 10,000 round no-maintenance endurance test.

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sumguyontheinternet1@reddit

As someone who doesn’t maintain my 500 in any reasonable way, I can confirm it’s basically indestructible

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brucedodson@reddit

Mossberg 590RM ? You can get 10, 15 and 20 round magazines if legal in your area

https://youtu.be/gZKMIhstycc

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MarianCR@reddit

It decreases reliability over pump action

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plowdog46150@reddit

They can be hard to find basspro carriers these if the fall combo you might check Davison ot accusports

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plowdog46150@reddit

Most standard pump hold 5 shells for field model you still have to plug it in most states to 3 rnds to hunt with

The tactical holds about 8 rnds I would get a combo so you can switch between hunting and defense

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BurgersBaconFreedom@reddit

Another vote for the Mossberg 500. Great shotgun. Good on you for not relying on the state to protect your family. A lot of good people will unfortunately die that have that mentality.

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ChimuFCLG@reddit (OP)

Yeah, sadly that is true. I dont have anything against the monopoly of violence by the state, but that doesnt mean that citizens shouldnt have the capability to defend themselves and their loved ones.

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ilikecars2345678@reddit

Maybe a templeton t2000? Not technically semi auto but effectively one