Regulate Jerks not E bikes
Posted by Any-Foundation5983@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 134 comments
I've been so frustrated with the discussion on regulating e-bikes/ e-motos because there's something I haven't seen addressed much. No matter what e bike regs you put in place, the same jerks who are zipping by at 35mph on the bike path are just going to break the law and do it anyway, e-moto or no. I really got thinking about this when I saw this guy and presumably his son riding dirt bikes on the bike path in broad daylight. I saw mopeds and small motorcycles on the bike path back home as well. The problem isn't throttles, or being capable of going 30mph, or anything to do with the bikes themselves. You don't need to tell an e-bike from an e-moto to know it's wrong to blow by someone too close going super fast. Or that you should not be going more than 15-20 mph AT ABSOLUTE MOST through shared spaces with bikes and pedestrians. Honestly we could probably get more safe spaces for bikes and other non car transport if spaces were built to include things like mopeds, light motorcycles and golf carts as well. More users, more dollars and vested interest to enforce things like speeding, recklessness operation, etc. You could even restrict the noise level or weight class on particular trail ways based on things like its location and width. I think it'd be easy if you just had the funding and political will to enforce it. It's hard to get that enforcement with the narrow base of just bike and e bike users. If we opened the types of vehicles we're allowing in these spaces instead of restricting it, we could widen the user base and actually police people who're being reckless and dangerous. Let's not alienate responsible people who want to get away from cars but need the ability to keep up with them in some cases. OK rant over.
SnuffyMcfluff@reddit
We can’t have the police killing civilians chasing these clowns. The safest, easiest solution isn’t great. But it is doable. Make all class 2 and emotos illegal on public property unless they have insurance and a plate. Impound them on site/grab them while parked.
Sadly, I don’t even like my own solution but I don’t have a better idea.
stormdelta@reddit
Class 2 have literally identical max power and speed limit as a class 1.
Lumping them in with actual dirtbikes like Surrons kills your credibility if you're claiming to care about safety.
SnuffyMcfluff@reddit
Anything with a throttle has to go. I am lumping them in because there are a lot of class 2's that literally can not be pedaled. The pedals are at best symbolic and they are easily hacked for additional speed. They are the primary vehicle of choice for the problem people who are going to ruin this for all of us. Maybe put on your thinking cap on or ask questions before going straight to a credibility attack?
stormdelta@reddit
None what you said here has anything to do with safety, it just sounds like you have a weird obsessive hatred of throttles for no reason.
Why? The biggest issue with safety is speed, not the existence of a throttle, and most of the (legitimate) complaints IRL tend to be about things like Surrons that have many times the power and weight and often nearly double the speed of class 2 e-bikes.
It feels more like you refuse to accept that someone might not pedal to ride an e-bike, which comes off as you thinking bicycles are only for recreation and fitness instead of actual transportation.
That would be equally true of any ebike, and without drastically more wattage they aren't going all that much faster even if someone modified it that way.
SnuffyMcfluff@reddit
The biggest issue is public perception. Did you miss what happened in New Jersey this year?
They had a handful of deaths of underage kids doing dumb crap on class 2 bikes. So they regulated all E-Bikes to the point where the tech may not survive in the state.
When you consider safety you can’t just focus on the metrics of the devices. You have to consider usage and demographics. How often do you see somebody on a class one or three bike doing a wheelie on the wrong side of the road?
How often do you see that shit with class 2 bikes and E-Motos? In my case, every day. And the feedback I get from non riders is, “We need to get those E-Bikes off the road.” New Jersey tells us they can and they will. Never mind that they don’t notice the majority of E-Bikes they see because they are being operated like regular bikes.
So yeah, I’m obsessing over throttles because throttles attract the worst users who put tech that could revolutionize American transportation at risk of being regulated out of existence.
Dook23@reddit
To be fair I have never seen anyone, even online, popping wheelies in traffic and such.. Only people I ever see doing that are basically all on emotos, maybe some mopeds, but not class 1-3 e-bikes. Many class 3 ones have throttles too so not sure why you feel the need to focus on class 2 ones. I don’t believe the kids in all the news reports in NJ were riding class 2 ones either, if I am not mistaken. They were on emotos.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
If you're referring to the news reports that led to the law in NJ, they weren't on emotos, they were on Class 1-2 ebikes, and they were run over by cars specifically. They were used as justification to extend Class 3's requirements (license, insurance, registration) to Class 2, and extend license and registration to Class 1, under the idea that since kids being run over by cars is bad, kids shouldn't be able to be in the road on ebikes.
SnuffyMcfluff@reddit
Class 1 and 3 are pedal assist only. I saw the bike of one of the dead kids on the news. It had dummy pedals and was clearly a class 2. E-Motos are expensive. Class 2s can be had very cheaply and are ubiquitous. I see stupid behavior by underage kids on class 2s every day (I live near a high school). Part of the problem is parents will shell out $500 for a class 2 thinking it’s a bicycle when it isn’t. Also do not underestimate how far hacks can take these bikes. Disabling the speed limiter is just the start. Voltage increases follow.
Also it is much harder to hack class 1s and 3s as they require pedal sensor and speed output to correspond.
Dook23@reddit
If it had dummy pedals or pegs it likely wasn’t an ebike at all, not even class 2. Many class 3 bikes also have throttles too but they cut out at 20 mph. They are extremely common. As for hacking or modding, that can happen on a class 3 as well. Not sure why you would think otherwise.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
ITT, "doing dumb crap" means being on an ebike at all when you have a stalker who has an SUV.
SnuffyMcfluff@reddit
Fortunately I don’t have a stalker.
I use an e-bike around town instead of my motorcycle. It’s functionally just as fast and gives me infinitely more parking options.
I’ve been bike riding on streets for a very long time. It’s about the same amount of risk as riding a moto. I accept those risks. I’m careful and avoid roads without decent cycling infrastructure.
So far I’m alive but that could change.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
Ah, of course, when two 17yo girls get on an ebike, they accept the risk that a crazy stalker will run them over going 70mph, smearing them all over the pavement without stopping.
Dook23@reddit
So if your ebike is functionally as fast as your motorcycle it’s sounds like you have an overpowered, out of class 1-3 bike and you want to ban them? Sounds confusing.
stormdelta@reddit
The issue in NJ is piece of shit corrupt legislators. The examples cited for the law not only had fuck all to do with legal ebikes, one of them involved two kids being murdered by a stalker in a truck that hit them on purpose. And the law specifically exempts the highest risk category of rider (rentals), while being impossible to legally comply with.
About as often as I see idiots on gas mopeds and normal bikes doing them actually.
Most of the time they actually mean e-dirtbike if you ask them to describe what they're talking about, and the exceptions tend to be the kinds of people who already see ebikes as "cheating" i.e. they can't handle the idea that bikes are actual transportation.
Appeasing the kinds of people that would just as soon get rid of all cycling infrastructure if you let them is a self-defeating fool's errand and a terrible basis for policy.
Optics only justifies compromise to a point, and I'd argue your attitude actually makes that worse too. Because you're conflating legal ebikes that are drastically lower speed and power with e-dirtbikes, which only confuses the general public more and plays into the hands of people who already want all e-bikes banned.
Razrgrrl@reddit
E-motos should be licensed and regulated like motorcycles. Instead they’re like “yeah let’s crack down on bike commuters going 18-20.” Like, make it make sense. There are literal children on non street legal mini motorcycles, and they keep threatening to further regulate those of us who are adhering to the laws.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
The end goal isn't everyone following the law, it's the destruction of the ebike industry. This same process happened before with mopeds. For all people throw 'moped' around as a word here, ones that actually fit the legal definition of 'moped' are EXTREMELY rare except in places where it includes ebikes.
VegaGT-VZ@reddit
A lot of the problems on the road stem from a basic collapse of traffic law enforcement. This guy feeling bold enough to do this speaks to that. He knows he won't get caught
blueskyredmesas@reddit
Yeah I don't really expect US cops to do anything anymore. At this point it's widely known they take like 40 minutes to come to a call. They don't ticket drivers for brazenly bad behavior and so, of course, they aren't going to try and catch a small, fast vehicle that can go 50+mph and fit on the sidewalk.
I think the real problem is that people are unconfortable that a high speed ebike that exceeds class 3 isn't immediately discernible. Dirtbikes, mopeds etc are all well understood platforms. People don't know what to expect with an e-moto even though people who post regularly could absolutely tell.
Of course if the police were serious about this, they could spin up enforcement. Cops on e-motos that are educated on how they look and work, all of them understanding how software level controls and limits at the hardware level work on known brands and, most importantly, they could easily follow lawbreakers since they're on their level.
457kHz@reddit
If the e-bike industry were serious about this, they would encourage and help fund enforcement. They'd offer training. Instead, they've opted to see what the Find Out phase looks like. See NJ.
sanjosethrower@reddit
People For Bikes as the largest bicycle maker lobbying group in the US, and the ones that did a good deal of the hard and boring work to legalize electric bicycles with fairly consistent laws across the country, are happy to work with local jurisdictions and law enforcement on the training aspect and on helping update laws for local needs.
They are actively arguing against the changes in NJ like they seem to anytime a state is proposing such onerous rules.
Just-Smart-Enough@reddit
Nobody is really working on the electric moped legal framework, though, which is a shame.
VegaGT-VZ@reddit
E bike companies are barely treading water, they don't have spare money for these kinds of initiatives.
Solid_Science4514@reddit
Those aren’t e-bikes.
Astr0Scot@reddit
100% correct.
I've no problems with emotos if they're used exclusively where motorcycles are also used.
As mopeds are. With mopeds generally being much slower and less weighty than emotos.
Here in Scotland ebikes are limited to 15mph with extra assist dynamically provided on hills.
subhuman_indep_777@reddit
E-motos are faster, but not heavier. A gas powered moped weighs 200-300 lbs. An e-moto is more like 150-250.
Astr0Scot@reddit
Google is telling me:
subhuman_indep_777@reddit
Google is giving you bad numbers. It might be including moped style ebikes. And counting full size electric motorcycles as e-motos.
As an example this relatively popular Honda moped weighs close to 300 lbs. https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/scooter/pcx
E-ride pro SS as an example of the larger end of e-motos is 167 lbs. https://www.eridepro.com/products/pro-ss-3-0
Just-Smart-Enough@reddit
That's not a moped. That's a scooter, which is treated like a motorcycle by law.
Dook23@reddit
Funny how his link even has the word scooter in it 😂
Just-Smart-Enough@reddit
Also looks like they're trying to differentiate Emotos from Emotorcycles - first time I've seen that - are people actually trying to make that distinction?
Just-Smart-Enough@reddit
Also, that E-ride is in no sense on the larger side of Emotos. Are you aware of the Stark Varg / Alta Redshift? Not to mention the Energica, Zero and Livewire?
The_walking_man_@reddit
Exactly. And That’s common sense and should be the law here (US) and limited to 15mph, but people get fuckin rabid over it. They lose their shit being told they can’t go as fast as they want.
There’s no need to go faster than that.
If you need something faster, then get a road legal vehicle and stick to the roads.
stormdelta@reddit
The US is not Europe, and adopting the EU laws here would accomplish little except killing off e-bikes as viable transportation in much of the country, pushing more people (especially people who should least be driving) back into cars that are wildly more dangerous.
Most US cities have little proper cycling infrastructure, meaning most people need to used mixed infrastructure to actually get anywhere. And 20mph is not fast enough to safely use as a road vehicle almost anywhere in the US.
Forcing bikes that only go 20mph into vehicular traffic isn't safer, it's only going to get people killed.
The_walking_man_@reddit
If you want to ride an e-bike on a pedestrian pathway then you should be regulated to a specific speed.
If you want to go faster, get a vehicle. Go on the road.
I’m not forcing bicycles into traffic but if you’re forcing yourself amongst pedestrians, then you should be regulated to a maximum speed of 15mph.
Period.
Your lack of concern for the safety of pedestrians is very telling what kind of person you are.
stormdelta@reddit
You're advocating that anything that goes faster than 15mph should be in the road. The slowest roads in my city are 25mph, and most are 30+. The number one threat to pedestrians and cyclists is cars.
Your argument is not on the side of making people safer.
Your tunnel vision on what constitutes real safety from a holistic point of view endangers far more people than anyone riding 5mph higher than you agree with.
Even the most reckless idiot on an ebike is less of a threat to other people than a mildly distracted driver, particularly given how oversized and unsafe modern American cars. It's already nearly impossible to hold bad drivers accountable as it is, and that will remain true as long as you keep crippling alternatives.
Astr0Scot@reddit
Exactly that.
I used a 15mph restricted mid-motor ebike here in the Scottish Highlands as my main bike for a few years. I've done loads of long hilly routes on it. It has the extra/dynamic assist on hills. An absolute joy and I wouldn't have needed it to be any more powerful.
The rides I was doing would cover the routes of even the most enthusiastic of cycle commuters.
Dream_walker_boy@reddit
Yes this, I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. Let people ride them where it's safe or even if you let them on bike paths just limit how fast they can legally go. and at the end of the day it's wayyyy better than everyone driving a truck around
Astr0Scot@reddit
I wouldn't be keen on such large heavy vehicles being used on cycle paths here in the UK.
Then you'd have them mixing in with all kinds of potentially vulnerable cyclists.
They're larger and heavier than mopeds, probably best to keep them in at least the same category and use them in only the same places as mopeds/motorcycles. Then there'd be no need to restrict them.
They're effectively electric motorbikes, hence the term emoto.
OrganicParamedic6606@reddit
Agreed. 28mph on a 70lb+ vehicle is very dangerous to mix with other cyclists and especially pedestrians on trails.
Dook23@reddit
I wish people would stop with this argument though because in the U.S. in many many places trails have speed limits, often 15 mph or lower. If anyone is riding a manual bike over 15 they are also breaking the law, which anyone who rides bikes frequently can do. Enforcement is most important.
fhwoompableCooper@reddit
Would you consider this an emoto? It's 67 pounds and hits 28 mph
OrganicParamedic6606@reddit
I’m less interested in what you call the categories and more interested in not sharing walking/biking/mixed use trails with something going 28mph.
“But you can have speed limits,” you might say. Sure, but e-bike riders have shown callous disregard for safety and a speed limit won’t stop that, so we’re back to regulating them off the trails as the best option
Razrgrrl@reddit
I think the caps on class 1-3 bikes make sense and it’s the unregulated e-motos that are dangerous. You have to factor in that assist only (for 1 and 3) is usually torque sensor, not cadence. Torque sensors are going to mean each assist level is actually more of a range. How much/fast/hard you pedal will increase the assist. I need to pedal hard at 95-105 RPM for higher levels of assist. I’m not doing that on multi use, it’s too busy and I have to slow down to safely pass people and kids and dogs.
So not only is it difficult to hit those max speeds, we can choose low (or no) assist. I choose none or low for MUP, or a bit higher assist if I’m towing my small dog. I think the class 1-3 and current caps are reasonable if people are willing to use common sense and follow the laws.
I will concede that my class 3 is a heavier bike, she’s 61lbs. Definitely could be dangerous at higher speeds. But I’m telling you that even on straight wide sections riding hard and fast with traffic? The very fastest I’ve ever gone is somewhere around 22mph. For extremely brief periods. I look at metrics after my rides. Let me find one for noodling around MUP.
Astr0Scot@reddit
All I could say is that it wouldn't be legal here in Scotland due to the speed.
These people seem to have put a lot of time into working out what constitutes an ebike or an emoto in relation to their local regulations.
https://www.rideillinois.org/awareness/micromobility-guidance
Astr0Scot@reddit
Yeah there's a willingness to ignore the reality of the very obvious differences between ebikes and emotos from people who are presumably emoto users. You'd think that might be because they don't want to have to license their bikes and lose access to certain trails/paths.
Astr0Scot@reddit
I wouldn't be keen on such large heavy vehicles being used on cycle paths here in the UK.
They're larger and heavier than mopeds, probably best to keep them in at least the same category and use them in only the same places as mopeds/motorcycles. Then there'd be no need to restrict them.
Razrgrrl@reddit
I do think it makes sense in the US specifically for our classification system to include higher speeds. It’s just a big country.
Bike commuters here often have segments that don’t have great bike friendly architecture and it’s safer if we can get to speeds closer to car speeds. I’m on a class 3 now so the max with assist is 28mph. I don’t get to that speed typically. I wanted more torque for hills, and assist with a long commute. My regular commute day is 20+ miles of cycling round trip.
Astr0Scot@reddit
In one way that seems to make sense. In another way no person is going to really look to commute more than say 30 miles each way on an ebike.
I used to do a 30 mile commute in my car here in Scotland. On roads that aren't at all cycle friendly. Realistically outside of the Netherlands and a handful of progressive cities Europe isn't that bicycle friendly. Certainly not for stitching together cycle paths that would cover a 20+ mile commute.
So if you rationalise it I suppose the size of the country may not be that relevant when the length of actual journeys could easily be the same and on comparatively cyclist unfriendly/fast roads.
In saying that, on a 20 mile commute having the extra power would indeed be ideal I agree. It's only once someone is regularly using their bikes in the inner city around pedestrians and other vulnerable road users etc that the extra speed becomes a problem. It's almost like you need a light and slower bike in the city and a faster more powerful bike for doing long commutes. Not practical.
Razrgrrl@reddit
I didn’t mean they should change the caps. I think the 20/20/28 caps make sense. I found it easier to accidentally go too fast on my class 2. (Up to 20 w throttle). I had to watch my speed on flat sections. My class 3 assist only, I have to actively work to hit 20. I have literally never gone fast enough to see that assist to 28.
I’m only getting to the higher assist levels (and higher speed) when pedaling HARD at least 95-105RPM on a straight section with no headwind. That’s a few select spots. That’s why I go as fast as I safely can in the areas where that’s possible. That’s
not the urban areas or the multi use paths. My average speed is around 15. The new bike has all sorts of metrics ;) it’s a Tern HSD if you’re wondering. And I LOVE her. So much nicer for hills. Look, here is yesterday. Something like 6.5 miles on each end are me getting to/from home to my train, the rest is in a crowded urban area where I can’t go that fast or even pedal all that hard in a lower assist bc stop/start traffic.
Astr0Scot@reddit
In one way that seems to make sense. In another way no person is going to really look to commute more than say 30 miles each way on an ebike.
I used to do a commute that's not too far off that in my car here in Scotland. On roads that aren't at all cycle friendly. Realistically outside of the Netherlands and a handful of progressive cities Europe isn't that bicycle friendly. Certainly not for stitching together cycle paths that would cover a 20+ miles commute.
So if you rationalise it I suppose the size of the country may not be that relevant when the length of actual journeys could easily be the same and on comparatively cyclist unfriendly/fast roads.
GatesAndLogic@reddit
The graphic is irrelevant, it has an exhaust pipe. That's actually straight up a dirtbike/ motorcycle.
Astr0Scot@reddit
Could you say where you think the exhaust pipe is as I don't see one?
GatesAndLogic@reddit
I'm talking about the bikes in the OP. The blue dirk bike has an exhaust pipe. Look at the back on the right side.
I agree with your post's distinction, but this entire thread isn't even about an electric vehicle.
Astr0Scot@reddit
Ah, okay I get you now.
I agree the blue bike in the op is a motorcycle.
jnyc777@reddit
Op was saying just that, but there’s a lot of hate to distinguish what is what and should or not be called an ebike, when there should be more focus on infrastructure for all bikes, places to be with speed and weight limits
Wide_Philosopher667@reddit
Yeah and know the difference between a LITERAL MOTOERCYCLE and and e-bike
lFightForTheUsers@reddit
Speed. Every time there is a complaint or debate against ebikes and emotos a lot is said, it's always speed at its core.
Speed kills. Higher speed means less time to respond to a hazard and more likely to cause an impact, and higher speed means more force in an impact that can have deadly consequences.
So how do we handle it on the roadways? We have speed limits. IMO pedestrianized areas such as parks and hike and bike trails should have speed limits. 25mph signs on paved trails in my area where there is lower traffic, and I could even see as low as 10mph in high traffic park/playground areas that the trails go through at points. Radar guns work on bicycles just the same as automobiles, and its easy enough to enforce via officer on motorbike or a souped up ebike.
There are times where throttle out 28mph makes sense, like when I'm riding down 45mph roads with no sidewalks in my area and I need to keep up better with mixed traffic. There are also times where I need to keep it at 10mph max because there are joggers everywhere and little kids running about with no self control on looking out for bikes. They don't know any better so it is on the cyclist to look out for those hazards and ride appropriately, in the same way that it is the responsibility of the motorist to look out for cyclists and drive appropriately. However for those that ignore those civil rules of society, there needs to be consequence of fine (or confiscation for habital offenders) if they cannot abide by those responsibilities. However those speed limits must be government backed and enforced to make any positive change in that.
Dook23@reddit
Well said.
trtsmb@reddit
Sometimes 15-20 mph is much too fast in shared spaces. On Saturday mornings in my area, you really have to slow it down to about 5 mph to be safe.
Mopeds/golf carts and light motorcycles belong on the road. Mopeds and motorcycles require having a license/plate and insurance. In my area, golf carts have to be registered ($10/yr with the town) and are restricted to a certain geographic area and roads with speed limits of 30 mph or less.
Dook23@reddit
Golf carts should be on roads? Seriously?? Most golf carts can barely hit 15 mph at best.
Bobby_Strong556@reddit
It's almost as if we should have thought about a regulation system for motorized bicycles and rules for driving.
It really frustrates me that the gov and others feel they need to regulate ebikes on a hardware level as if we should treat them any differently than any other vehicle.
My car can go 190, that doesn't mean I speed that fast, why should my bike be limited to an anemic 750w and 20mph? Because that asshole can't follow the rules of the road? Ebikes classes are bullshit.
You're right, it's as if we should have laws against endangering others.
buchenrad@reddit
Yeah. Just put a speed limit on the bike paths. 30mph is dangerous on a bike/walking path whether you're on an ebike, analog bike, scooter, or skateboard, and if it was possible for a person to run 30mph that would be too dangerous too.
Speed limits with enforcement are better than hardware regulations that limit all hardware even when it isn't being used in a controlled area.
Dook23@reddit
This is exactly the point I try to make here as well but people aren’t having it. The problem is most trails DO have limits, they just aren’t enforced, at least in the US.
sanjosethrower@reddit
Cara should have power and speed limiters.
fhwoompableCooper@reddit
They already do
sanjosethrower@reddit
Which US law sets this for personal motor vehicles?
fhwoompableCooper@reddit
It's not a law but many have top speed regulators for the safety of vehicle handling at high speeds even if technically you can push it farther
Whinke@reddit
When cars actually have one it's set to like 120mph? The equivalent ebike speed regulator would be like 45mph.
Point being, they effectively don't have speed limiters.
sanjosethrower@reddit
The ones you reference are entirely voluntary choices by makers. There should be speed limiters much lower than those.
Unusual-Scarcity6536@reddit
Hell no they shouldn't. There's no reason for it since speed limits are actively enforced.
Bobby_Strong556@reddit
Why don't we throttle your PC too? You don't need anything faster than a 1060.
ScoobyDooItInTheButt@reddit
That's a really bad analogy. How many people die a year because a PC can transfer data faster?
Bermnerfs@reddit
I agree, it's a bad analogy for e-bike restrictions. That being said, while PC's becoming faster may not have killed anyone directly, the indirect consequences of advancement in computing have resulted in immeasurable damage to the environment, economic stability, and humanity on a global level. High speed broadband access to a lot of places with poor education has also directly contributed to societal decline via social media. The rise of AI could finish the job sooner than we want to admit.
ShawtySayWhaaat@reddit
Yeah so everyone can be just as boring and soulless as you
Boo-Radely@reddit
If going fast in a car on public roads is your identity then you are pretty fucking boring.
ShawtySayWhaaat@reddit
Who said anything about it being my identity
I think you're projecting something on to me
Dude_9@reddit
Processing img es5r7v3ixlug1...
rattpackfan301@reddit
Cars aren’t racing down walking paths nor are they frequently driven by 13 year olds. This is such a false equivalency.
The_walking_man_@reddit
Exactly. The blinders on people in this subreddit are wild sometimes. They can’t put together or would rather ignore that the problem are that these e-bikes have access to pedestrians paths.
A mustang isn’t flying down my walking path. But that little shit who just flew by nearly clipping me as he flies by on the new “toy” mommy bought for him.
TrueNova332@reddit
Or certain groups of people could just ride normally and not be disruptive while riding because there doesn't need to be a law for people to have respect for others and if there were rules the disruptive people still wouldn't follow them it would just make riding ebikes harder for people who just want to ride them for fun or for running errands or doing gig apps
iceyconditions@reddit
Because my car has a plate that's registered to me. You couldn't deal with registering bikes
imbrowntown@reddit
Let the kids ride who cares
Dook23@reddit
Soooooo were this dad and his child going 30+ on the path/sidewalk or were they riding at a low speed and being respectful of others? I actually get it if the father is trying to teach his child how to ride safely and has nowhere else to take him but doesn’t want him starting on the roads with the cars. If he was trying to teach him right from wrong at least be thankful you found a parent who was trying to educate his child.
UmbraTitan@reddit
Why not both? And we probably have laws on the books against this BS, it's just not really enforced to any degree that makes a difference. Some guy was slowly pedaling a dirt bike looking ebike around our big dog park and I didn't care at all because he was being slow and polite. The guy doing 40 on his e-unicycle was a problem.
OrganicParamedic6606@reddit
Regulate both. E-bikes are motor-driven cycles and should be treated as such
Dream_walker_boy@reddit
Government overreach goes brrrrrr
rattpackfan301@reddit
Well what is your solution for the danger they create on the sidewalks then?
Dream_walker_boy@reddit
Not allowing them on sidewalks is fine, to me regulation implies more restrictions on design and specs of ebikes and e moto. And more intense permitting/licensing. I like emoto and ebikes when I do emoto I feel no need or desire to ride on cycle trails or walking paths
OrganicParamedic6606@reddit
If people didn’t act like shit, none would be necessary. But here we are
Dream_walker_boy@reddit
LITERALLY FUCKING THIS
kangol-kai@reddit
Yea idk, for MY safety, I ride on grass and sidewalks cause the drivers in my state wanna hit everything but the brakes. Not tryna get caught in 35mph zone while mfers doin 50-55 bending corners and blind driveways
Lordly_Lobster@reddit
You would have to have enforcement which isn't going to happen on multi use paths. No community is going to put officers on a bike path to pull people over. It's way easier to just regulate the sales. Requiring a license and registration at the point of sale for anything more than 750 watts is a more cost effective way of addressing the problem and won't affect the majority of law abiding citizens.
rvralph803@reddit
That ain't even an ebike. That's an ICEhole.
blueskyredmesas@reddit
Yeah OP was talking about that as an example, not an oversight. Basically; these people were even more obviously breaking the law and could just kinda chill and have fun doing it without fear of being interdicted and questioned.
Jonesmak@reddit
I mean the bottom line for me is that if I ride my (IC) dirt bike on a sidewalk I’m 100% getting the cops called on me….whereas we have kids with emotos gunning it across intersections on sidewalks going no less than 40.
Something has to be done about that….
krollAY@reddit
I had a conversation with a gov employee about accommodations for e-bikes on bike paths. The federal guidance is to build bike paths that are designed for about 12-15 mph and usually a max of 20.
If you just have to go above 20, just ride with traffic
buchenrad@reddit
That's fine, but don't ban all the ebikes that can keep up with traffic.
Pristine_Hunter_1065@reddit
But 28 mph is not safe for traffic
ItzJustAhhPotato@reddit
Ride next to the bike lane not on it. Many times their has been a driver making a right turn into the bike lane without looking or activating blinkers. Even while going 18mph.
Going 28mph+ on a narrow bike lane will literally launch you into the curb and be worse than sliding on asphalt. If you are next to it atleast they'll see you and won't be able to make that hard turn into bike lane where they arent looking out for
hezuschristos@reddit
This is just a gas bicycle. Same way a surron is an electric bicycle. And yes, this is how dumb the all “e-bikes” are bikes people sounds.
Sorry OP I know this wasn’t the point of your post. But it’s funny
trtsmb@reddit
OP's pic is not a gas bicycle. It's a gas dirt bike - aka motorcycle.
hezuschristos@reddit
Yah, that’s exactly my point. The pic is a dirtbike (aka motorized vehicle), and its is just as much a dirtbike as any of the surron style bikes that people live to argue are “just bicycles”.
No_Leading_5257@reddit
I mean if we want to be really pedantic here anything with two wheels is a bicycle
trtsmb@reddit
Tell that to the motorcycle shop that sold that dirt bike.
No_Leading_5257@reddit
What exactly is the 'bike' in 'dirt bike' short for?
IAmNotABot111@reddit
You can’t be stealthy on a dirt bike so it’s not even a good comparison. There 100x more kids on Surrons riding where they shouldn’t
DeadHeadDaddio@reddit
Yeah man i'm sure you see a half million dollars worth of surrons regularly.
Laserdollarz@reddit
During covid, Philadelphia had wild issues with dirt bike + quad rideouts. Literally hundreds of people would show up and wheelie through the city, literally leaving destruction and bodies in their wake.
You should look up those videos. The surron kids actually could be a lot worse lol.
WalkinTarget@reddit
This was happening waaay before COVID - Philly Hang Gang dates back 15+ years, hell, they even have a movie out detailing the lifestyle.
IAmNotABot111@reddit
Yea, I’ve seen videos about that and those Baltimore dirt bike crews are fat lol so much so that I’ve heard of dirt bike shops refusing to sell younger guys dirt bikes there.
Don’t get me wrong, dirt bikes have always been ridden dirty.
But I regularly see groups of 10+ teens on surrons. Like it’s constant. I see them in parks, on walking trails. I see them fuckin everywhere
iceyconditions@reddit
The surron kids have rich parents, they're not just wannabe gang member thieves
ChefButcherMan@reddit
It’s like this with almost everything, small group of people misuses something and vocal public opinion turns against said thing which leads to regulation on that thing and usually other things related to that thing.
darforce@reddit
This looks like drunkies. Seem to be a lot of people who lose their license and get smokes to get around
RoboticGreg@reddit
We have some jerk offs that love to run their surrond at high speed through a playground we got, doing wheelie and shit right on the handball courts and jumpscotcj areas even when a bunch of kids are playing. The other day they brought a friend on a Kawasaki 250. When he gunned it half the kids started crying. We don't have an ebike problem we have an asshole problem
The_walking_man_@reddit
At what point do you think people are going to start handling it themselves in the community instead of allowing this bullshit to continue and endless waiting on actual police enforcement?
I’m not advocating violence, but destroying a few of the bikes would be a great deterrent.
Buzzyear10@reddit
We had a bit of a spate of "darn kids on their ebikes zooming around our public parks" discourse recently in my small town.
I had to text into the local radio station where people were complaining about how dangerous these people were being.
I work in a public park and for the last 5 years ive seen the same amount of idiots doing the same amount of reckless and illegal bike riding in the park. They've just been on dirt bikes or modified 2-stroke engine push bikes up until now.
Motorbikes on foot paths are illegal.
rattpackfan301@reddit
I honestly wouldn’t be opposed to police flying a helicopter every now and then to figure out where these illegal dirt bikers head home to so they can be impounded without a chase.
The_walking_man_@reddit
Just get some drones out there. Easy and not invasive to neighbors (no noise) and get recorded video and photos. Some police are already starting to use them
MrTechRat@reddit
Worse than being on the street, on the sidewalk.
Faicc@reddit
Call the cops, don’t just take a picture
Relevant-Result3226@reddit
I will say i do use the bike/walking path sometimes but always slow down going past someone no matter what. I usually go down to just over walking pace maximum so i dont make plp angry or frightened.
Legitimate-Lab9077@reddit
I mean… That’s what we’re all trying to say but every time any of us or anyone else talks about E bikes when the vehicle in question is not remotely an E bike but is an e-motorcycle or in this case of freaking internal combustion motorcycle you’re only making that regulation more difficult because most politicians are morons
OmarionIan@reddit
I just got a e bike and I thought it was common sense too not go past people going fast Oo boy was i wrong some people are such cunts
Still i refuse to do it and will get off and walk past people every time or go offload if I have too
rattpackfan301@reddit
Even on a regular bicycle I try to slow down if I pass people.
Dream_walker_boy@reddit
I think they should just both be allowed, not only should the government mind their business but most importantly it's all better than people driving around collosal SUVs that guzzle gas, pollute, pollute noise, ect. Maybe make people get an easy to obtain permit or something if anything.
TrueNova332@reddit
That's a dirt bike and in most US states they're not street legal without modifications so those are already regulated
ominous_squirrel@reddit
In the Netherlands they have bicycle superhighways and small cars for people with disabilities are allowed on them too
https://dutchreview.com/culture/tiny-dutch-cars/
It’s fking nuts that we keep trying to reinvent urban planning and multi-modal transit when we have gold star countries that have been doing it right for decades but Americans gotta just keep being and encouraging assholery
IntelligentOkra41@reddit
I want a bike super highway. I'm tired of people putting my life in danger because they're impatient and don't know the law for bikes on the road here.
foghillgal@reddit
They also have rules about speed and bike types are heavily regulated. None of those things are done in the US.
demon_twink_gockie@reddit
Just throwing out that in some jurisdictions, mopeds are actually allowed on the bike paths.
Relative-Display-676@reddit
Those aren't mopeds...
hezuschristos@reddit
Not pictured: a moped
demon_twink_gockie@reddit
Pictured: the word 'moped', circled, in OP's post
DrunkVanDamme@reddit
Baltimore?