On April 11, 1996, Jessica Dubroff, a 7-Year-Old Girl Who Was Trying to Become the Youngest Person to Fly a Light Aircraft across the U.S., was Killed, Along with her Dad and Flight Instructor, when their Cessna 177B Crashed in Wyoming In a Storm; Among Her Final Words Were, "Do You Hear the Rain?"
Posted by Shoddy_Act7059@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 115 comments
The final words above were to her Mom on the phone as the plane began being revved up. Earlier that day, she told reporters, "I'll fly 'til I die."
She was also not at the controls at the time of the crash. Her flight instructor was, and the NTSB would later say the cause of the crash was his decision to fly in bad weather.
Read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Dubroff
DamNamesTaken11@reddit
A tragic case of get-there-itis.
Weather deteriorated below minimums even when they were still on the ground, but the instructor wanted to keep press coverage high and media was happy to oblige.
Sadly, this ended up costing a seven year old girl, her father, and the instructor their lives.
blightedquark@reddit
And her senseless death caused the FAA to write a new rule, so other kids wouldn’t needlessly perish in the hope of imagined glory.
https://www.congress.gov/committee-report/104th-congress/house-report/683/1
ironicmirror@reddit
"hope of parent's imagined glory"
ExpiredPilot@reddit
Yeah when people see child prodigies I see kids that were told by their parents that they’re going to perfect a skill whether they like it or not
blightedquark@reddit
Sounds like a post in r/TigerMom
Planeandaquariumgeek@reddit
My mom watches some child talent show constantly and always asks me “why can’t you be like them?” meanwhile the kids would clearly rather vacuum a beach then do another talent show. I don’t really think she’ll force me down some talent path because I’m already 15, so luckily she got into that stuff too late to do that
JJohnston015@reddit
The proper response to that question is, "Why can't you be more like so-and-so's parents?"
IdaCraddock69@reddit
eh, there are some kids who are very driven from a young age - absolutely it's up to the parents to moderate and guide them. Jessica's death was a tragedy and so preventable.
but I had a couple of kids I was in school with who grew up to become v successful musicians/composers (literally one rock n roll hall of fame and another grammy winner). Both were helped by their parents but the fire came from them.
BeefInGR@reddit
Yeah. I had a classmate who had a cup of coffee in Single A baseball. He didn't care about anything else besides baseball, except for when his Dad forced him to play basketball and soccer each for a year so he'd rest his arm in high school. Went to some small BFE college in the middle of nowhere Indiana and paid his own way so he could play. Got a tryout with our local A ball club, made two appearances and got cut after the draft. But his parents would've preferred he followed his grades to a bigger university.
There are a ton of shit parents, but then there are those who just support their kids the best they can.
SanibelMan@reddit
I think this is part of why Alyssa Liu's performance at the Olympics seemed extraordinary to a lot of people, or at least to me. Knowing that she'd already quit once specifically because of that pressure to perform and then returned on her own terms, and seeing how much she was enjoying herself while performing, really made her performance a stand-out.
mz_groups@reddit
I thought Guinness Book of World Records ceased to do "youngest to fly somewhere" records, but I see they still have a youngest to fly around the world record.
Blue_foot@reddit
They did.
Years before Jessica’s death. They foresaw the dangers.
https://www.southcoasttoday.com/story/news/1996/04/12/youngest-pilot-category-struck/50651325007/
mz_groups@reddit
I was going to say that (I thought I had remembered that they eliminated those records), but when I googled it, I saw this record . . .
https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2022/8/mack-rutherford-becomes-youngest-pilot-to-fly-solo-around-the-world-714440
RhinoGuy13@reddit
This was 100% on her instructor. The storm wasn't the issue from what I remember. They were overloaded and trying to take off at high altitude.
SeaMareOcean@reddit
It was child exploitation. The father and instructor were exploiting a 7 year old for some fleeting media exposure. Iirc Jessica was doing almost none of the flying, including the instructor doing all takeoffs and landings during all of the legs. These shitty fucking adults were the equivalent of our modern influencers and clout chasers. Fucking scum.
MikeW226@reddit
I remember wondering how much actual flying Jessica was actually doing, during the initial media circus of 'She's trying to fly across the country'. RIP.
Teavangelion@reddit
I forgot that this happened. At the time I wasn't into aviation, but now I question immediately how her feet could have reached the rudders, let alone manipulated them properly. The media conveniently ignored that, I guess?
battleofflowers@reddit
How did she even see out the window properly? This was obvious horseshit. The problem is that the media presented it at face value because it was a news story that got attention. The media were scum for promoting this. One of the biggest reasons they took off in shitty conditions was because they wanted to make sure they would be on Good Morning America the next day.
Upstairs_Fuel6349@reddit
I agree she wasn't flying and it was all a senseless tragedy but as a short woman who started taking flying lessons as a young teen -- they make these booster seats that sit you up and forward. I eventually switched to a school that had slightly smaller planes that were more my size.
battleofflowers@reddit
There's being a short woman and then there's being a small child.
Teavangelion@reddit
I never saw the deleted post. Was it some nonsense about women pilots? lol
Whatever it was, I am, in fact, a woman, and a small one. My comment had nothing to do with that.
Upstairs_Fuel6349@reddit
I was a 4'6" 12 year old, so more child sized. I think Jessica's parents claimed she used extenders to reach the rudder pedals.
mkosmo@reddit
I was about her age the first time I flew GA, in the right seat of a Mooney.
I certainly couldn't see over the panel on the ground.
Sad-Umpire6000@reddit
The kid didn’t do any actual flying. Navigating, controlling the entire plane - flight controls and engine, communicating is flying. Her dad wanted to claim she flew the plane so he could ride her coattails because he was a no-achieving lop. And the instructor didn’t have the balls to say no.
AdPsychological790@reddit
She actually fell asleep for a portion of 1 leg. That’s how much flying she was doing.
Telepornographer@reddit
Yep. Per the NTSB report:
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR9702.pdf
rhineauto@reddit
From the wiki link OP provided:
Deep_Science_5170@reddit
I get the sentiment of wanting to set the record, but at some point a responsible adult needs to remember that she was 7 and can’t make fully informed decisions…
Ancient_Narwhal_9524@reddit
Set a record for what though? A 7 year old is in no way qualified to be the pilot in command of an aircraft.
It’s no different than strapping a 2 year old in the back seat of a car doing a Cannonball Run. It’s meaningless.
Mist_Rising@reddit
She wasn't the PiC, ever really. She was essentially the copilot.
Ancient_Narwhal_9524@reddit
People way younger than 7 have sat in an airplane doing nothing. So, again whatever record they thought they were setting was meaningless anyway.
anonymoo5e77@reddit
It was the flight instructor’s decision to fly into weather, not hers.
Mist_Rising@reddit
I guarantee he was under pressure to keep things moving, the media frenzy at the time played a massive role in these kid records and you had to maintain the pace to keep the frenzy rolling. Even reporters and news groups who knew better got caught up, like 20/20.
Since the FI job was essentially to keep her flying towards her goals, he would have been under the same problematic issues she would, if not more since it's money and people do stupid shit for money.
StarrieScars@reddit
I think they're talking more in general about what pushed her to make the decision to want to start flying that young
asavgasucanbe@reddit
Ironically, it sounds like it was the flight instructor who crashed the plane. Not only did he decide to take off in a storm, but he was actually the one controlling the plane.
MikeW226@reddit
Possibly the push to get to the next airport, where local media would pick up and keep the story rolling. Whatever that phenomenon is called where a pilot (Jessica's instructor) pressures themself to go in marginal or downright dangerous conditions.
Maelstrom_Witch@reddit
“Get-home-itis”
Telepornographer@reddit
Her father was also trying to "get ahead of the weather". But the flight instructor ultimately should have known better, especially because at the time of departure the field was IFR but the dude somehow got special VFR clearance.
Deep_Science_5170@reddit
Fair enough, but the sentiment remains about undue risk for a 7 year old to meet media commitments.
HereticYojimbo@reddit
Her father was not a responsible adult. He was the one pushing Jessica into fame as a child and by all accounts was pressuring her and her instructor to fly into dangerous weather conditions in order not to disappoint the media. He had Jessica with a woman he was 33 years senior to by the way (Jessica's mother was 19!) so make of that what you will.
Typical story of a strange man with too much vanity, money, and power over others.
thePostChorus@reddit
You have some of the details confused. It’s even weirder than that. Go read the “Civil litigation” part in the Aftermath section of the Wiki. The dude was a weird man.
AnalogFeelGood@reddit
I clearly remember that he had the kid actually make the furniture in her bedroom, for some weird self-reliance reasons.
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
I mean, the youngest, Vicki Van Meter, was only 11 when she made her coast to coast flight, so...
Also, yeesh, Vicki's story also has a terrible ending. Google it if you want to, but...yeah.
flyguy60000@reddit
These kids were pretty young. You have to wonder if it’s something they wanted to do or if their parents pushed them into it.
AdoringCHIN@reddit
The kids might've had a genuine interest in flight but it's absolutely the parents that forced them to go for these ridiculous records
a_scientific_force@reddit
It's absolutely the parents.
directheated@reddit
Even more so now with social media parents. I follow mountain bike content on Instagram and always get recommendations for these parent's kids MTB accounts. Mountain biking is a dangerous sport, especially with the current trend of fast, flowy jump lines getting the most attention.
ShittyLanding@reddit
I don’t wonder at all.
Marinlik@reddit
It's like when you have the "youngest person to climb El Capitan" and similar stuff. It's essentially always the parents dragging the kid up the mountain for some media attention and the kid doesn't actually climb, just gets hauled up a rope.
Skrompin@reddit
FI was in control, not the 7-year old.
Mecca_Lecca_Hi@reddit
They’re talking about the decisions that put her in the plane in the first place.
flyguy60000@reddit
I remember that…..just awful. RIP.
Mediocre-Telephone74@reddit
Wasn’t this around the time kids were trying to top each other on this record. Also so much news coverage over this made the tragedy worse.
Mist_Rising@reddit
Yes and this particular incident led to Congress putting an end to that with the Child Pilot Act
sunflowerads@reddit
kids parents were trying to top each other***
NoKatyDidnt@reddit
I do too. This one genuinely made me cry.
Lexxias@reddit
??? Maybe I'm screwed up but I thought this is hilarious for many reasons
sonic_syntax@reddit
You are screwed up, for many reasons.
Lexxias@reddit
Hahaha, perhaps, but also, it's screwed up to have a 7 year old try to fly across the USA in a light aircraft
JustConversation7847@reddit
Uhhh she wasn't even at the controls for this incident?
Lexxias@reddit
So, everyone thought it was a good idea to put a 7 year old in imminent danger and still thought it was a good idea to move forward?
I guess money can buy you planes but not smarts.
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JustConversation7847@reddit
I mean this goal was stupid but people bring their minors on flights all the time
CashewAnne@reddit
How is that “hilarious”?
Rubber_Knee@reddit
Ha ha ha, a 7 year old innocent girl died because her dad was a moron, ha ha ha.
This is how people see you when you write something as retarded as what you wrote above. You suspicion that you might be screwed up is correct. You are!
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SelectAirline7459@reddit
She would be the same age my daughter, who is happily married to a wonderful man and they a cute little son.
What a shame this little girl didn’t get to live her life.
Silver_River9296@reddit
Let me add this. The Cessna 177 series was a move by Cessna to combine several high performance features but as usual with a small engine. The wings had a feature where the thickest part is well aft in the airfoil (about 1/2). This feature was made famous by the P-51. Faster cruise and better speed with less power . . . But, it will fly at less speed if you continue to raise the nose resulting in a condition where only a lot of power will get you flying again and a wing stall will take LOTS of altitude to recover.
Then they installed a flying Elevator, a one piece elevator that (supposedly) gives better response but can be stalled if pulled back suddenly or too much, resulting in sudden nose drop.
Lastly they built the aircraft with a 150 hp, then 180, then maybe more, each trying to make the aircraft safe.
I contend their choice of this aircraft model and flying out of a fairly high airport led to a crash that would have been difficult to avoid no matter who the pilot. And that she was merely a passenger in the pilot’s seat.
Silver_River9296@reddit
As for letting a young person fly, both me and my son probably had enough hours at the wheel that when we reached 15 we were ready to solo. Result of growing up in an aviation family.
randytc18@reddit
I just read "Human Factors" and they had a small blurb about this in the "exhaustion" chapter(I think). Her CFI had told many people he was exhausted. The fbo manager at their previous stop in Rock Creek said they all looked exhausted. They crammed so much into this trip with media interviews and such that they were just focused on going.
shadygroveisay@reddit
which book is this? would you recommend to someone exploring getting a license?
randytc18@reddit
It is called "Human Factors - Enhancing pilot performance". It is an ASA book. Great content. I love aviation so I liked it. It is a lot of content at over 1500 pages.
yawara25@reddit
Would you say it's a worthwhile read for dispatchers as well?
jazzeriah@reddit
Sad really. That is also exactly the time when people start making huge lapses in judgement.
sd_software_dude@reddit
Still a better pilot than TNFlygirl
mermaidpaint@reddit
It's been 30 years? I remember this.
The whole endeavor shouldn't have happened. Her father was monetizing it. Her parents failed her.
battleofflowers@reddit
Her parents were nutcases. Her parents were divorced.....but then her father, in his 50s married a 19-year-old girl and her got her pregnant. Then his ex-wife moved in with them and he got HER pregnant. They were weirdos who were using their daughter in some weird game they were playing in their polygamous "marriage."
black_cat_X2@reddit
Poor girl never had a chance.
Hardoffel@reddit
I have a surprisingly clear memory of the news running footage of her getting into the plane as it was raining. I was the same age then.
gkaplan59@reddit
Would have been called an influencer today
WetCoastCyph@reddit
I'd argue 'failed' is more passive. Her parents put her in harm's way with teglagic consequence.
NoKatyDidnt@reddit
I agree, it wasn’t right.
Fine_Suggestion674@reddit
I had a 6 yr old daughter when this happened, and was horrified that a parent would take away the childhood of their own child to attempt this record, and then be so narcissistic to not have canceled the attempt when it was clear that circumstances weren't favorable. Had the same thought about people being overly confident about their abilities to win against all odds a few years later when JFK Jr. made a similar poor decision to fly even though the weather was awful. Private plane situations are beyond my experience, and I'm glad for it. Being able to access them seems to lead people to an optimism bias.
I2iSTUDIOS@reddit
My girl is 7 years old. She is smart in pretty responsible but no way in hell is she mature enough for critical decision making that could impact her or other people's lives in any significant way.
IGoUnseen@reddit
That's not really the story here. She wasn't the one making the decision to go. It's all on the flight instructor (who was actually doing the flying) and her father who may have put pressure on them.
Her story is sad and tragic, but the accident itself has nothing to with her being 7.
cheetuzz@reddit
does anyone remember an incident from a few years with an older teen girl solo pilot? I think she may have been trying to solo across the US.
She ran into some kind of engine trouble, was radioing ATC to find an emergency airport. They told her the nearest airport, but it was just a grass field, so she couldn’t locate it.
Apparently, she just ended up ditching it somewhere. The details were scarce at the time, but I think she survived the crash.
Anyone remember that incident? Were there ever more details in followup articles later?
IGoUnseen@reddit
She wasn't flying across the country, she was a student pilot flying one of her solo flights you need to do to get your private pilot license.
rooplstilskin@reddit
Lived a few blocks from where they crashed when it happened. It was big news in Cheyenne.
For those debating, it was, is, and will always be the Instructors fault. The weather was shit that day, and they should have waited 6-12 hours.
Planeandaquariumgeek@reddit
The reason why they didn’t wait was media interviews. These interviews were already scheduled for their respective dates and weren’t gonna be able to be rescheduled for 6-12 hours later, because reporters already had a schedule.
No-Improvement-1507@reddit
God damn it.... We don't let kids drive cars, so why on earth do we let them fly planes?
RedditReader4031@reddit
But she wasn’t flying at the time of the crash Ave reports are that she flew very little at all. The landings and takeoffs were all made by the FI who did nearly all the things flying.
Lexxias@reddit
Careful, you might get your comment removed my the mods. Your talking to much sense
TinyCopy5841@reddit
Explain how that comment makes any sense considering the instructor was the one who was pilot in command and did most of the actual flying?
Lexxias@reddit
Because we must be super sad. Don't bring in logic to this conversation! A 7 year old died!!! Emotion only!
Ok_Influence7223@reddit
She wasn’t even the one flying when it crashed. It’s clickbait.
TXWayne@reddit
Did you even read the article?
rygelicus@reddit
At 7 the human brain isn't working properly yet. Far, far too young to be handed that kind of responsibility. Would they be as willing to give the kid their car keys and drive across the country? Well, these might, but not responsible parents.
Of course, if the CFI had access to the controls this crash is on them, not the kid.
anoeba@reddit
It's on them either way, but that kid was barely flying anyways during the trip, and handled none of the critical phases (takeoff/landing), neither in this instance or in general.
TinyCopy5841@reddit
Why don't you read the article first?
Express-Citron-6387@reddit
Reminds me of that horrible video I saw of the news of that kid who was trying to break the record of being the youngest skydiver at the age of 12. They think the shock of the jump paralyzed him into inaction or he fainted 'cause he just tumbled down. His family were yelling, “Reserva Reserva”.
the_beat_labratory@reddit
I remember this event very well. I was on a trip with my airline in a layover hotel in Oakland when the news broke.
Of all the infuriating “hot takes” being peddled by people who knew nothing about aviation and tried to paint this media stunt as a great thing, the worst (IMO) came from this child’s mother. She said something to the effect of (this is probably not word-for-word accurate, but I’m confident it’s close):
“My child died doing something she loved. What more could a mother ask for?”
No, you evil dumbass. A mother should ask that her child was still alive because she was protected by adults who had her best interests at heart.
I still feel my blood pressure go up thinking about that statement.
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
The plane just crashed itself?
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
The aircraft was overloaded, the flight instructor was kinda exhausted and chose to fly in bad weather and also flew it too slowly.
So...kinda? But, also, not really.
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
A plane rarely crashes on its own
ScallywagBeowulf@reddit
I remember learning about this in my aviation meteorology class. Horrible story.
Punched_A_Bursar@reddit
The Women Fly hat always makes me angry. Yes, women fly. She was SEVEN.
Lexxias@reddit
oh man, what a tragedy!! I wish there was some adults that could have corrected this behavior!
PoppedCork@reddit
Good, awful father
MikeW226@reddit
The tragedies ya forget about, and then are reminded of and 'it's like' ....damn.
whathaveidoned@reddit
This accident was the reason my mother pulled the plug on my birthday flight lessons. Was supposed to start 3 weeks after this happened.
Icommentwhenhigh@reddit
This was around the time I was getting my own pilots certification. We were all following along with envy, then confusion, seeing a series of very questionable decisions. Sad all around.
TheKingofVTOL@reddit
In David Soucie’s book “why planes crash” he has a chapter or so dedicated to this event. Heartbreaking. A really good book though, I recommend it. It details from his time as an Air Ambulance mechanic and subsequent time spent as an Air Accident Investigator.
balsaaaq@reddit
She wasn't wrong
clattygobshite@reddit
That was some great parenting right there.