Expats: How much has not knowing the local language affected your daily life?
Posted by UsamaBhai_101@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 57 comments
I live in Germany for more than a year now and it affects me alot hence Im trying to learn everyday and imporve. Even small tasks like going to the pharmacy has to be rehearsed in mind or needs a translater.
For you, things like bureaucracy, making friends, work, or even simple daily tasks, how much does language actually impact your experience?
And did you try learning it before or after moving (or at all)
Proof_Mycologist_220@reddit
I passed the German C1 exam only six months after I arrived in Germany, but honestly it didn’t help me very much. Of course, I had studied some German on my own at home before moving to Germany. But even after learning German, I didn’t have many chances to use it. A few years ago, I moved from Germany to a neighboring country, and because of my experience in Germany, I don’t study the local language here anymore. Even so, I found a job quickly in a place that has nothing to do with my home country or my native language, and I still get occasional job offers. I’m doing fine.
Flimsy-Calendar-7566@reddit
I don't doubt your words but I lived in Germany too (in Berlin, of all places) and used German all the time. I wonder what you spoke with your friends, when buying groceries, at the doctor's and so on.
ObviouslyASquirrel26@reddit
When did you live here? I've been in Berlin for 12 years, and when I first got here, I used my German a fair bit. These days, most people don't even start with German. And there's so many other foreigners here that you really have to make a big effort if you want to have German friends.
Flimsy-Calendar-7566@reddit
It was a long time ago and i was lucky enough to be accepted in a very big and active group of German people almost from the beginning. However, I used German all the time in all kinds of contexts. I returned about 10 years ago and again, just German. I was not aware that it had changed so much. Then again, I only use German when I am there.
Unlikely_Mood_2136@reddit
I’ve been in the Netherlands for ten years now and, though I passed all the immigration tests, a two year old speaks better Dutch than I do. About 20% of the time when I ask if someone speaks English I get, “Of course” as a response. Even those that respond with, “A little bit” have a much better command of English than I do of Dutch. One of my favorite jokes is there are only two types of Dutch people that don’t speak English: the very old, and the ones that are very angry at you. I know I’m “that guy” but it really kinda just rolls off my back at this point. In a strange way it is rather liberating in a strange way. I can effectively interact when I want to because of the Dutch populations high English proficiency, while at the same time be blissfully ignorant of the conversations going on around me. Kinda keeps me out of trouble because I never feel compelled to interject myself into something that doesn’t concern me. Should I learn the language? Of course I should. Will I? Probably not at this point
Rude_Membership_1578@reddit
Kinda disrespectful to the place you live in for so many years but ok
ObviouslyASquirrel26@reddit
Yeah we all said that until we moved and found out how hard it is to learn a difficult language while working full time and having a life. And I'm not sure about NL but at least here in Germany, the locals are not exactly helpful.
mp85747@reddit
I used to have a dream of retiring to a country the language of which I don't speak. Not at all! You don't know anything about politics and local corruption, you don't understand stupid and irritating conversations, you don't find out people's flaws... You're oblivious to everything and your life is a bliss! Just like the lives of 50+% of "influencers" on YT who pretend to "live" somewhere and mislead their followers with sugar-coated stories. Even though they might've been there for years, they're essentially on extended vacations.
This idea sounded, and it still does, even more so, like paradise to me! However, it's not quiet realistic... There are English-speaking doctors, but there's also red tape, technicians, staff in stores you may need to resolve problems with and just all kinds of things in daily life you can't navigate that make the dream impractical...
gina9481@reddit
And this is why the Netherlands has an increasing 'expat fatigue'. Living somewhere for 10 years and making zero effort to learn the local language and expecting everything to be available in English and people to adjust for you is just disrespectful and entitled.
muntaxitome@reddit
I am Dutch, honestly I haven't really heard much of 'expat fatigue'? There is some frustration with expats taking housing, but for the rest haven't heard much about it at all? Unless we are taking like refugees, family re-unities and foreign students as expats .
gina9481@reddit
It's defenitely a growing sentiment in my area, especially among the older generations who didn't grow up learning/speaking English to the degree that many people do these days. People taking their (grand)kids to a playground, store etc and barely hearing any Dutch being spoken or not able to order a coffee in Dutch, expats moving to the neighbourhood and mainly socializing with other expat families etc. It's not just about housing but also about social cohesion and not speaking the same language can be a big factor in that.
My husband works in a hospital and treating people who might already have have different views on healthcare systems or aren't familiar with the Dutch one, and then having to handle complex matters in English where it would be preferred to communicate in Dutch can also make healthcare professionals' jobs significantly more complicated. Many of his peers and other hospital staff has shared such experiences. I've seen also many posts on Netherlands related subs where people mention such examples from their workplace or just daily interactions.
aubergine-pompelmoes@reddit
Seriously. I’ve lived in the Netherlands for nearly 15 years and I speak Dutch. It’s arguably not a hard language to learn for English speakers. You don’t need to be perfect but I mean…make an effort.
Expats like this give us such a bad name.
Paranoid_Android_42@reddit
Yeah, three years in my case and while I still make some spelling mistakes when writing, I can communicate comfortably in oral Dutch in any given situation, including work, doctor's office etc. No otherwise healthy person can tell me they did not manage to learn the language in 10 (!) years.
Old-Administration-9@reddit
I moved to NL for university (BSc, MSc, PhD), so I've lived here for almost 10 years. I don't like it here - I think NL is bland, depressing and soulless - but the educational opportunities were too good to pass up. After my PhD defense, I'll leave. I didn't have an incentive to learn Dutch during my studies, as the university functions practically entirely in English.
Old-Administration-9@reddit
I'm in the same boat, I have lived in NL for almost a decade and can't speak Dutch. The thing is that I only moved here for university (BSc, MSc, PhD), and I never had any intention of staying here once I completed my education. After my PhD defense, I will leave.
demaandronk@reddit
Youre the type of dick everyone - everyone youre blissfully not understanding - wants out of the country at this point.
aubergine-pompelmoes@reddit
To be honest I find this really disrespectful
ObviouslyASquirrel26@reddit
I've been in Berlin 12 years and my B2 is wasting away because those interactions with the pharmacy or whatever are the only time I even speak any German. It's super hard to achieve or maintain here.
LiterallyTestudo@reddit
I was A2 when I moved to Italy and everything was hard af. I’m now studying for C1 and life is sooo much easier at this level.
UsamaBhai_101@reddit (OP)
Wow thats actually amazing. Alot of people mostly stop at B1 or B2 tbh. Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you. Im at A2 fo German now and Iv been learning on and off for about an year now.
salian93@reddit
Why would anyone stop learning the language of the country they are living in at B1? B1 means that you kind of understand the gist of things, if you concentrate really hard and people are accommodating you, but a lot of things will still fly above your head.
C1 is where understanding and speaking become effortless and second nature, so you can just start to live your life. This is really the minimum you should be aiming for, if you ever want to feel like you've arrived.
Chance-Ask7675@reddit
A lot of people stop studying at B1 or B2 and they learn by using the language.
machine-conservator@reddit
I studied a lot before moving (couple years in university, daily app practicing, fair amount of native written and video content) and it wasn't enough. Not knowing the local language to fluency makes everything, everything, a pain in the ass. It adds uncertainty and stress to everything you need to do outside your house, and many of the things you need to do inside your house. I'm a lot further along these days but still not anywhere near as comfortable as I would like to be with German.
Don't underestimate the challenge of learning and living in a new language, and don't underestimate its importance.
ProfileBest2034@reddit
For me not really at all. But I had a company helping me.
SellSideShort@reddit
I speak like A2 German, live in Switzerland, feels impossible. But also, people here are really quite different so doesnt bother me not to talk to them.
Rude_Membership_1578@reddit
Different?
SellSideShort@reddit
Yep. Google like “Swiss people boring” or “Swiss people cold” to get an idea for expats experience with the Swiss. The Swiss want nothing to do with foreigners, even Germans.
hibisciflos@reddit
I'm a german living in Switzerland and I get on with the swiss just fine since I am capable of basic manners. Germans are often seen as rude because many really really are can confirm (I work in healthcare). Other than that we're flooded with people who start every conversation with "ENGLISH!!!" even though they've been living here for years.
The novelty wears off really quickly when you're dealing with the 10th person in a row who couldn't be bothered to even attempt learning a local language and expects you to cater to them in a foreign one.
elevenblade@reddit
Most Swedes speak excellent English but I am so glad I got to at least a C1 level before moving here. I think it would have been very difficult if I didn’t speak the language. In particular making friends would have been tough.
ToiletWineSommelier1@reddit
C1 is quite hardcore no? You spoke advanced swedish before going there? I'm aiming to be B1 and that I'm already seeing as an achievement, you've got me worried!
elevenblade@reddit
I worked on it for a decade before moving there, plus I’m a physician and fluency in Swedish is an absolute requirement for getting a medical license.
ToiletWineSommelier1@reddit
Oh dang, that's some proper prep! Fair enough. You really had your mind set, hope you're loving your time there.
carapacito@reddit
I lived in Germany for almost 3 years without knowing German. But it was a fairly touristy region, and I didn't experience any serious problems in everyday life. I must add that I found myself in an unexpected trap. At work, there was an idea that I would learn the language while working. But work is when you need to do something quickly, so we communicated with our colleagues in English to be faster😁
Connect-Idea-1944@reddit
Anytime locals try to speak to me and im embarassed to tell them "sorry can you repeat that in english"
ExerciseTrue@reddit
Nearly everyone speaks English in Germany, except some other foreigners.
totobidet@reddit
Perhaps in the large cities but not everywhere. The younger generations studied in school but in many places they aren't confident in speaking it or listening. Without German one would suffer in all things from bureaucracy to socializing in the smaller cities.
UsamaBhai_101@reddit (OP)
Spot on 100%
UsamaBhai_101@reddit (OP)
No way bro, where are you getting your data from lol
ExerciseTrue@reddit
20 years first hand experience? Idk, maybe its you...
UsamaBhai_101@reddit (OP)
No way, I live in a small town and its undertandable there but I have travelled to alot of parts in Germany and this is not teh case. Even my tutor Lea would laugh at this lol
MaxMoanz@reddit
Where do you live? Ive lived in Köln for 4 years, and now live in a dorf in SH. English is far from being spoken by every German.
LimePretend299@reddit
Moved within the EU from France to the Netherlands and whatever people say, it's essential to learn the language. Here, almost everybody speaks English fluently, at least in cities, but there is always a preference for someone who speaks the language for work, dating, etc. So I really regret that I didn't work harder on learning the language.
MrJim911@reddit
It makes everything more difficult. I've been in Portugal for 3 years. I'm probably at a weak A2 level.
So I can do fine in cafés, restaurantes, making simple purchases, greetings, etc. But if I need to accomplish something more complex it can be difficult.
Thankfully many Portuguese where I live speak English, but I should speak better português.
binkkit@reddit
Pretty much my answer except I haven’t been here quite as long.
I know I need to talk to people more but as an introvert, it’s hard to force myself to go out and try to talk to people. I usually end up chatting with other expats. Portuguese people pretty much only talk to me to ask if they can take the extra chairs from the table I’m sitting at.
MrJim911@reddit
I'm also very introverted which does not help.
UsamaBhai_101@reddit (OP)
Yeah thats true. Doing more than normal tasks can be complex. I was in Figueira Da Foz, Portugal last year, wonderful place and alot of people were able to speak English to my surpise (coming from a small twon in Germany where no one mostly speaks english aprt from students lol)
winery_bound_expat@reddit
the pharmacy thing is so real. visited tuscany last fall and tried to ask for something for a cold, ended up in a full mime performance that definitely made the pharmacist's day. learning italian before a planned move now and honestly the gap between what duolingo thinks I know and what I can actually produce out loud is humbling. my italki tutor is patient but I can tell she dies a little inside every time I use the wrong auxiliary verb.
Old-Administration-9@reddit
I have lived in NL for almost a decade and don't speak Dutch. Aside from a few minor activities, it doesn't really impact my life, and I've even managed to make quite a few close Dutch friends.
I only moved here for university (BSc, MSc, PhD), and I never had any intention of staying here once I completed my education. After my PhD defense, I will leave.
ellytic@reddit
Language can significantly impact daily life, especially in a country like Greece where local customs and bureaucratic processes can be quite complex. Here are some thoughts on how language affects expat experiences in Greece:
For those considering moving to Greece, I recommend starting to learn the language before your move or as soon as you arrive. There are many online resources, language apps, and local classes that can help.
If you find yourself needing help with official documents or translations, there are services available that can assist with certified translations and navigating the local bureaucracy.
Full disclosure: I work at Ellytic (ellytic.com), which helps with AFM registration and certified translations, so feel free to ask if you have any questions about those topics!
young_twitcher@reddit
Lived in Warsaw for 2 years. I got to about A1 level which is standard pace for non-slavic speakers who learn casually (weekly classes with a bit of self learning). Even though it already took significant effort, it was rarely useful compared to not knowing the language at all.
Daily life was fairly easy as you don’t need to communicate much at all, Poland is very digitalized. Also, locals speak decent english, though they prefer to avoid it. But in the end, it just feels too draining that you can’t communicate with anyone unless you force them to speak their second or third language.
Ultimately, that was one of the main reasons why i chose to leave and move to London. My progress with the language was too slow and it wasn’t worth the massive effort to become fluent.
howdoesketo@reddit
Everything is more difficult and Im in a constant state of worry and panic over it. I wish I had more time to learn but working full-time and studying is hard. I cant wait to learn more and become fluent. Its nice seeing how far i came from A0 to B1+ and how much stres relief i feel knowing i can communicate.
I cannot wait for the day that Im fluent! 💪
Unlikely_Mood_2136@reddit
Okay
Lox_Bagel@reddit
100 on a scale from 0 to 10
Catcher_Thelonious@reddit
How would I know?
elysiancat@reddit
I live in the swiss french region. Not being fluent in french is not a problem regarding work or friends (Geneva is very international) but for bureaucracy yeah. It is useless for us to call our regie (they hang up if you request english) and even to call the doctor to set up an appointment we wait till our french friend is free so he can do it for us.
Otherwise for smaller stuff like going to the supermarket, pharmacy, basic interactions it is no longer a problem since I can speak and understand basic french, albeit brokenly.
I think its very very important to start learning the language early and practicing it, I don’t think I would choose again to move to a country where I don’t speak the local language because now I always have a lot of anxiety when doing even basic bureaucratic stuff or trying to sort out any problems, a lot of things just make me feel helpless.
UsamaBhai_101@reddit (OP)
For other stuff it is understandable but for doctor appointment, it is actually diaboilcal. But tbh thats true here in Germany as well. The palce where i live is a small town, I can get by with my broken english but with emergency stuff such as doctor or police, I have anxiety because its very rare that they would speak English. For bigger cities its better since they have more internationals but for small towns its just really sad. If I had to redo it, I would learn until B1 atleast before moving
elysiancat@reddit
Yeah I feel you. I loved driving back home but I never do it here because I feel panicked that if something happens I won’t be able to talk to the police. And I haven’t gone to the doctor in years haha. But I think most people manage :) I just have extra stress. just keep doing your best to practice and improve your german