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WeeklyDelivery2000@reddit

Russia warned Ukraine several times before the attack. They ignore it, expecting other nations to die protecting them.

Only "one NATO country has ever been attacked and that wasn't even in Europe but in the Falkland Islands."

Pantolonun_Utulusu@reddit

I don’t think so - I think they will just send a lot of weapons, and maybe a little force for ‘training’ purposes. I cannot see Germany sending tanks and infantry to a war with Russians in Poland. If US sends troops in such a situation, so would Turkey.

And France - come on, they did not even fight for their own country during WW2. But I’m sure they would heavily protest, not only be deeply concerned this time.

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adamgerd@reddit

Oh I don’t think Germany and France will send troops but Turkey is even less likely, judging from this thread alone. Turks have a one way hate of Europe

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Dismal_Yam_1839@reddit

Firstly, start turning some cogs in that brain of yours and recognize that no generalization of any large population is accurate. Stereotypes, all of them, inherently are wrong and hurtful.

Then I would advise you to do some self reflection. You criticize Turkey for being largely negative towards Europe, which may have some basis that is worth discussing. But the only thing you've been doing in the entirety of this thread has been perpetuating the same behavior against Turkey. So maybe sort out some of your own prejudices before slandering others for theirs. Your actions, while not the sole reason, are a part of the problem you're trying to attack.

And, as a footnote, realize that the only war is the class war. You have no reason to inherently hate anyone from anywhere or any ethnic group without a fair reason, and neither do they. The only people to hate are the elite. And the elite aren't spesific to a country or an ethnicity.

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Our allies were: Poland, Balts, Finland, Moldova.

Impossible_Web_4332@reddit

Yeah, they're only threat for countries such as Estonia, Latvia,Lithuania and Poland. So not your problem I guess.

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Scared-Show-4511@reddit

Bro, he can't hold his front with Ukraine, wth are you talking about lol

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damien24101982@reddit

What European tech are we talking about here? Nowadays Turkey exports more weapons to Europe than it buys.

Finance, yeah but that can still be arreanged without a military commitment.

I do agree that Turkish and European interests are converging and that there is room for cooperation but the old fashioned relationship between us won't work anymore, EU has been downright hostile to Turkey on many issues, going forward the relationship needs to be more equal if there is to be any defensive commitment outside of NATO.

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Ok_Sprinkles_8968@reddit

Turkey just bought Eurofighter and is begging France to sell them samp/t

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thatMrGecko@reddit

well, they can always pay for it I guess

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strongestwill@reddit

they won't, they just want to leech

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int23_t@reddit

Puzzled-Leader1@reddit

“They’ll just complain” complains the Czech guy in a Balkan subreddit

A bit of self awareness might help, but I’ll ask, how long have Turkey and Czechia been in NATO? And what has the contribution been of both?

Which country is surrounded by active war zones - all caused by the head nation of NATO? How many troops of each nation have given their lives for the organisation?

We have more right to complain than you do to judge

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adamgerd@reddit

Ultimately the thing that actually matters for NATO is which country would support NATO

If NATO was attacked, Czech would support Eastern Europe. Would Turkey?

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stats_merchant33@reddit

Why would you think Turkey wouldn’t?

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adamgerd@reddit

Have you seen this thread?

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stats_merchant33@reddit

and you think people here on Reddit are eligbale to make such statements? None of us can actually know what will happen in potential future scenarios but fact is that Turkey and NATO had a functioning relationship for 70 years or so, for the most part I think. No one can say that the Turks didn't put in any work for Nato, that's disrespectful to the fallen soldiers. No need to speculate here about who are "good" NATO members and who are not and who wouldn't put in any work in an attack case etc.

It’s very easy from the comfort of Central Europe to moralise. You fear possible attacks from a country that is literally nations away. We fear attacks from across the border. The two interests are not going to be identical.

KuroNekoX3@reddit

You may not know this but let me give you a little secret. Turkey also borders Russia. I know it's surprising right? And what was the purpose of NATO again? To prevent Russia presence near NATO member states and defend Russia attacks against the members. Now is it okay to let Russia expand its influence and become a tougher country to deal with? That's what Turkey was dealing with for decades you ignorant. Because of Turkey's interference Russia can't extend its influence in Black Sea, Caucasus, Middle East and Africa. Can you count how many fronts are there? Turkey is fighting all of them with little to no help with diplomatic and military actions. Now despite the previous agreements you Europeans and the USA meddled with the buffer country Ukraine thus resulting Russia to act. Now you pathetic guys can't even handle one front together. From the day Turkey became a member of NATO, Turkey has been contributing beyond its share but you ungrateful pricks keep denying it. To hell with you and your entitled asses that Turkey will never protect.

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DarkWandererAmon@reddit

We ain't leaving, but thanks🙏

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adamgerd@reddit

Except you already are in the alliance

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samvarr@reddit

lol all of Europe wanted Turkey in SAFE. The only country that vetoed it was Greece.

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FantasticQuartet@reddit

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samvarr@reddit

lol you Greeks are insufferable.

The Greek Cypriots literally rejected a unification plan in the late 90s - early 2000s while the Turkish Cypriots voted to unify.
The Greek military marches around during your Independence Day parades screaming “we will free Constantinople” etc.
Greek Cypriots celebrate EOKA a terrorist organization that literally caused the whole Cyprus issue by doing an illegal coup and persecuting Turks.
The casus belli is literally because if Greece tried to destroy the status quo Turkey wouldn’t have any access to the high seas through the Aegean without having to pass through Greek waters. Thats ridiculous.

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Fatalaros@reddit

You can stop mentioning the Anan plan, that was literally undemocratic (not that you have any idea of what that means).
Soldier motivational slogans, lmao.
The Greek Cypriots celebrate EOKA, the people that fought the British for an independent Cyprus despite British bootlicking Turks. EOKA B was branded a terrorist organisation by the Cypriot state which Turkey illegally occupies!? Every country on earth agrees that your occupation is illegal.
Yes, that's literally a threat over another country's legal rights.

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Perfect-Nail9413@reddit

Turkey doesn't have a good relationship with Russia it has a working relationship with Russia built around compartmentalising it's rivalry with them due to economic needs constantly waging proxy wars against each other.

Why would they think we want to be part of an alliance against Russia

You are a turk leeching on denmark what are you talking about

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-Passenger-@reddit

and Christian

well its a Christian organization, ofc we belong there.

Turkey can make one with whatever shitholes are left in the middle east after Israel and the US are finished there

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Icy-Wasabi2223@reddit

Shut up Croatian 😂😂😂

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KakaoFugl@reddit

Nah you belong to Yugoslavia/Serbia.

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-Passenger-@reddit

haha, not triggered

try again

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bill_cipher1996@reddit

EU is not an Organization of any fairy tale.

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driftstyle28@reddit

He doesn't even live in Croatia, diaspora Balkaners are always the loudest, I bet he ran away as soon as they entered EU, when their population numbers completely collapsed.

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Fiery_Flamingo@reddit

Oh no, some Redditor from the country that generates 0.6% of European GDP doesn’t want us!

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strawberry2nd@reddit

gif

How is China gonna attack us? We dont even border them and they cant naval invade us. Besides we dont have problems with China or Russia, that is you guys's problems not ours. If anything USA and Israel attacking us is more logical statement.

Wouldve made more sense if you said Russia but Russia is not that stupid, it would cause civil war inside of Russia due to Turkic speaking groups inside Russia who not all but a large percent would join Turkey.

Not even close tbh. You are seen as an unreliable ally. And you think you are more important than you really are.

And while it's true you have strategic importance to the EU they won't keep tolerating everything forever.

Right now they can afford to do so but not forever.

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strawberry2nd@reddit

If Turkey were to leave NATO, it would become the biggest technological and military partner of the BRICS Russia-China alliance, and the Black Sea would become the playground for this alliance. This would mean the Russians running rampant in the Mediterranean. If Turkey leaves the Western alliance, it would lead to millions of refugees flooding into Europe over the next 20 years due to wars sparked by climate change, heatwaves, and water shortages in the Middle East and North Africa, and so on.

Europe is desperately in need of a strong and, most importantly, stable Turkey for its own security. Turkey is like the bastion and border of European security, and you have absolutely no idea how crucial this is. There can be no talk of peace, security, and stability in Europe without Turkey.

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kus-avci@reddit

Turkey involved in its borders.

you greeks are.so.full.of hate.

is it wrong to make sure your 5m next to.your land is not destroyed.

In the event of an attack, the US and Turkey could very well use the excuse 'Europe shouldn't have created a European army separate from NATO'.

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driftstyle28@reddit

"Europe shouldn't have created a European army separate from NATO" is a dumber excuse than what Putin had for invading Ukraine. But since the US, Turkey and Russia aren't that different (All genocidal, authoritarian, imperialists countries) I woudln't be surprised if you used that excuse to invade Europe.

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TurkOmbre@reddit

You have a very black-and-white view of the world, and I completely disagree with you. Every country is supposed to defend its interests, and that's not a bad thing.

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After all the NATO shitshows, I doubt that is how it would work, no one would run in front of Russian missiles if they invaded the Baltics and you know that, especially with the US in it's current state.

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Shaolinpower2@reddit

Not that easy. You cannot just take over a country simply by bombing the cities. You need to put your soldiers on every single cities and crowded districts, so that there wouldn't be any uprising.

Türkiye is surrounded by mountains. It's practicaly a castle.

Our economy is highly industrialised, so attacking us would harm European economy too, which means there would be global pressure to the attacker to seize the process.

Our population is 86 million, and we're nationalist as hell, that makes it almost impossible to beat us psychologically. Also whoever attacks a country which has these features cannot get anything without getting hundreds of thousands if not millions of casualties. Since the western hemisphere has individualised radically, this level of loss would harm them even more.

We may not be the strongest army of the planet, but we have decades long experience. And we produce 80+ percent of our gadgets at home. It makes it not only cheaper, but also directly related with our needs. This makes them even more usefull than just buying them.

If they're not planning to nuke us day and night, the only thing they can do would be harming us economically and industrialy, which is what multiple EU countries, USA and Israel have been doing since the late 2000's. We got used to it :)

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MardukPainkiller@reddit

I'm talking about a total war situation not something small or decentralized, I'm talking china unleashing everything on EU and Turkey and anyone who is western sided.

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strawberry2nd@reddit

If Turkey were to leave NATO, it would become the biggest technological and military partner of the Russia-China, and the Black Sea would become the playground for this alliance. This would mean the Russians running rampant in the Mediterranean. If Turkey leaves the Western alliance, it would lead to millions of refugees flooding into Europe over the next 20 years due to wars sparked by climate change, heatwaves, and water shortages in the Middle East and North Africa, and so on.

bro you think these are for trading?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6T-Ea5CfRE

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strongestwill@reddit

They look cool as fuck, which is why Atlantic countries should distance themselves from an ever-collapsing U.S, who will get more and more aggressive the more radical their politics evolve to be and align with China who we know to be predictable.

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MardukPainkiller@reddit

Absolutely agree, the US might even leave NATO soon.
Then this means we are on our own, and you are too.

No, we are not europes mercenaries.

You're the reason the problem isn't solved. It's an illegal occupation and illegal settlement.

It was 400 dead tcyp and 300 dead gcyp in 20 years in Cyprs

The only ethnic cleansing to have occured is when you eliminated the greek presence in north who were the vast majority of population then imported Turks from east anatolia.

The definition of ethnic cleansing...

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Outside_Resist_8319@reddit

Cope harder..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Christmas_(1963)

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Critical_Parking_671@reddit

Deaths 364 Turkish Cypriots 174 Greek Cypriots

Confirming exactly what I said. Intercommunal violence.

Proved me right

Turkish murders of their wives in 2024....394.

How extremely embarrassing.

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Outside_Resist_8319@reddit

It was 400 dead tcyp and 300 dead gcyp in 20 years in Cyprs

In 20 years or in a year?

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Critical_Parking_671@reddit

In 20 years. 80% deaths happened on bloody Christmas.

I'm glad you're seeing the propoganda fed every day to you is BS.

It's sold as completely one sided ethnic cleansing but it was intercommunal violence.

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Outside_Resist_8319@reddit

So, overall 36 Turks died from 1963 to 1974. Hmmm.. And we are not talking about atrocities of 1950s , 1960s and 1970s , yet. God what kind of Angels those EOKA Cypriots with Greek junta soldiers sent in civilian to the island..

Dude you are claiming that I am educated with propaganda but that is not me who is talking here with half truths. I can ofcourse start sharing some Quora answers with BBC documentaries and documentation from those years' which are not Turkish press. But I do not want to destroy your face. Better you back off.

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LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit

Does that apply in other aspects as well?
Say a location full of non-EU migrants in the Netherlands, would it be bad if the police force consisted of mainly ethnic Dutch? Or the other way around?

It wasn't me, it was you again. Have you forgotten the Janissaries?

The number of Turks killed by the Ottoman Empire in Anatolia is greater than the number killed in the entire Balkans (including wars).

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Critical_Parking_671@reddit

The genocide where over 10 years resulted in 400 tcyp and 300 gcyp died.

It must have been the world's worse genocide?

Vs

The 2500 killed by Turks in 2 weeks. With 1000 still missing.

gif

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EmreTaptukYunus@reddit

In the first case, there was a hate crime at the center of it, along with a policy of de-Turkifying the island. The core motivation was "to eliminate."

In the other, it was war. I don’t know if you can grasp the difference between the two.

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driftstyle28@reddit

De-Turkifying or liberating? Was Kosovo de-Serbed or "liberated"?

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Critical_Parking_671@reddit

You can't dispute numbers. How did almost an equal number of gcyp die?

If it were real genocide. All tcyp would be dead in a few months. You seriously need to use your Brain.

Hamas killed more in 1 day in israel than all tcyp an gcyp in 20 years.... You can't make that up.

Turks kill more Kurds in 1 week than all deaths in Cyprus in 20 years.

Raping little girls by Turkish soldier is war?

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EmreTaptukYunus@reddit

Most of what you’ve said consists of nothing but propaganda lies. It’s a shame they’ve made even you believe them.

We are talking about a war. The Cypriot Greeks faced the Turkish army with a force of 40,000 people. Just think for a moment about why there were so many casualties.

You mobilize 40,000 people to fight, and only 4,000 die? Do you even know what war means?

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Critical_Parking_671@reddit

No. The people you killed were POW and plenty of innocent civilians. You went to court and lost. You used premeditated killing fields.

You took pictures of tortured people before you killed them.

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EmreTaptukYunus@reddit

The people you killed were POW and plenty of innocent civilians.

Where's the 1000 missing cypriots?

Here's another funny statistics. Last year Turkish men killed their own wives more than all tcyp deaths by eoka in 20 years....you killed circa 400 of your own women.

What does that say about your culture? It's like south Asia.

I think turkey should invade and rape themselves.

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Monterenbas@reddit

Yeah, no reason to punish Cyprus for being invaded.

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EmreTaptukYunus@reddit

It was EOKA that started the events.
It was the Turkish army that ended them.
It is your own mistake to see the guilt as one-sided

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Monterenbas@reddit

Only one country is invading and occupying another one, and that’s not Cyprus.

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EmreTaptukYunus@reddit

There is no country called Cyprus. That state effectively collapsed when Greek Cypriots, backed by the Greece's junta, began massacres aimed at eliminating citizens of other ethnic identities.

In 2004, during the Annan referendum—which was intended to resolve the conflict and allow Turkey to withdraw from the island—the Greek Cypriots once again responded with “we dont want to live together with Turks.”

Viewing the problem as one-sided stems from a biased and ill-intentioned perspective.

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Monterenbas@reddit

There is no country called Cyprus.

Lmao, ok Putin.

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kus-avci@reddit

turkey is not occupying cyprus

its protecting its own peoplyou know they tried to kill them thats why we are there.

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Monterenbas@reddit

Sounds like what the Israelis are saying.

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kus-avci@reddit

just stop it you are delusional.

comparing that with israil your hate for turks.seeps through your comments.

the truth us the truth

just look at the facts and see that the greeks trier to kill.the turks and free the iland its documented.

you talk about the reaction on a genocide on the iland.

occupation has made you blind and deaf for the truth

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Critical_Parking_671@reddit

The only ethnic cleansing to have occured is when you're removed the native population from their homes and then brought in imports into their stolen homes ...

um don't they have a law that excludes gays from the mandatory military training !?

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Eldanosse@reddit

I've heard something about having to prove being gay to be excluded from the army service in Turkey. They might be requiring visual proof or something.

sashagaborekte@reddit

Doesn’t the Turkish army require you sending in gay porn photographs of you try to get out of military service?

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zeclem_@reddit

thats a specific way of getting out of the military service, but yes.

Virginity test are a myth. There is no way to tell if someone is a virign or not. You likely have taken bigger shits than a man's dick lol.

Czech has a professional military, we don’t involve peacetime conscription

Worried-Owl-9198@reddit

30,000 people live in my village alone, for God's sake. What the hell are you even talking about? LMAO

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adamgerd@reddit

Well Russia has a massive army, tell me how well theirs is doing against Ukraine?

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Worried-Owl-9198@reddit

Go visit the Sex Machines Museum in Prague or something, you seem way too tense. Off you go, champ.

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adamgerd@reddit

You have no actual points

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Worried-Owl-9198@reddit

gif

gif

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Darwidx@reddit

As a Pole Believe me ot doesn't come easy througth my lips, but Germany technically have bigger standing army and no imediate threats.

Also, I think Greenland situation kinda showed with countries will run with help no matter their own problems.

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driftstyle28@reddit

Whatever keeps the war machine running and whatever keeps the corporations rich.

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thatMrGecko@reddit

no, it'll be built on walkable cities, fantastic transportation systems, bikes, and 800 year old plazas /s

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Stormshow@reddit

Gotta give people good things to protect. I would risk protecting this but I wouldn't protect some billionare's glass cube or some dying village filled with traditionalists

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qwert2416@reddit

Why are then people from rural and underdeveloped parts of a country usually the ones most patriotic and filled with national pride? That you need to give people something they feel is worth protecting in order for them to fight is just not true.

PrizeSyntax@reddit

No, why would it? We are capable enough to build an army without Ukraine and Turkey

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Worth_Package8563@reddit

If we fully locked in i bet even Germany or France alone could do the Job

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Smart_Quantity_8640@reddit

Third time’s the charm

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PrizeSyntax@reddit

Poland must also be mentioned, which, by my humble opinion is starting to pick up steam the last few years and I think will emerge as a big and strong player on the scene sonner rather than later

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Dazzling-Session-181@reddit

Wow. That's some optimism. How would Europe build its military industry and stockpiles without cheap resources, rare-Earth minerals and military-oriented industry base? How would it recruit a motivated army after decades of demoralization? I am 33, I sure ain't fucking fighting for Europe anywhere for any reason. If Bulgaria is being attacked, I wouldn't lift my finger for our corrupt comprador foreign-serving politicians ever. If the enemy takes our politicians out maybe I'll consider defending my homeland, but then again - I should actually thank them.

etanail@reddit

He isn’t keeping quiet, but the situation here is somewhat complicated. Iran is an ally of Russia, and Iranian Shahed drones (which Russia is now manufacturing as well) fly and crash into residential buildings every day. Iran provides economic assistance to Russia. An attack on Iran would be politically advantageous for Ukraine.

On the other hand, high oil prices hurt everyone and help Russia make money, which it then spends on the war. Although Ukraine benefits by exporting defense technologies to counter the drones (which is why Iran has openly threatened it).

Mate Europe in this context is not a geographical continent, it is a cultural one.

Exactly why Turkey isn't a part of it, mate.

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Environmental-Pea-97@reddit

Yeah, so?

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CataphractBunny@reddit

So stop being butthurt and accept the truth.

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You a third tier Europian lol atleast Turkey is independant

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adamgerd@reddit

Enjoy your inflation in turkey

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Boring_Albatross3513@reddit

Enjoy the cold :) Putin is going to shove his boots your mouths while you wait fir USA and Uk

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BicycleAdditional360@reddit

No on multiple stages of figuring out what European Army can be and who can be a political power in Europe to lobby that army.

1) Europe is not united and the more times passes, the less united it becomes. In order for EU to form a united political subject they need to get rid if eurosceptics. So EU needs to get rid of veto right or create some kind of workaround. Broadely speaking, Europe needs to become akin to the Third Reich to do the european army.

Now EU can't even issue shared eurobonds. Not an exact comparison, just for you to get the picture.

2) Ukraine – no because of demographical reasons. You cannot build a long standing european army with a dying country. Ukraine had TFR of something like 1.16-1.20 at 2021. Before the war. Now it's worse.

Hence, in order to turn Ukraine into a EU army Europe needs draft all those refugees that flew there after the war. In order to do that EU, again, needs to become akin to the Third Reich.

3) Turkey – no. Why would Turks want that? They're getting profit from deals with both Russia and its allies and the EU. Why would they surrender this strong position and become cannon fodder?

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Next_League6403@reddit

Bulk of Russian forces melted in Ukraine. They can be a threat to countries with 30-40k soldiers. Not to us. I don't see them recovering from that soon. But in 10-15 years they will probably target another small neighbouring country.

United States / Israel is a bigger threat right now. If united states leaves nato, they can freely attack nato members, eu countries. Most eu countries infiltrated to the point where they cant even say ''maybe not kill civilians?'' without risking getting canceled.

I am not fighting for people who look down on us, I need a visa to enter but fighting on the front is visa free?

We are not the richest country. We had to develop our own weapon systems with our own resources all this while getting restrictions, sales bans from the eu. We pay crazy tax for everything. Sending all this equipment to rich countries doesnt make sense.

So being cordial and diplomatic with all sides while having a big army is the right way to go.

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Next_League6403@reddit

Bulk of Russian forces melted in Ukraine. They can be a threat to countries with 30-40k soldiers. Not to us. I don't see them recovering from that soon. But in 10-15 years they will probably target another small neighbouring country.

United States / Israel is a bigger threat right now. If united states leaves nato, they can freely attack nato members, eu countries. Most eu countries infiltrated to the point where they cant even say ''maybe not kill civilians?'' without risking getting canceled.

I am not fighting for people who look down on us, I need a visa to enter but fighting on the front is visa free?

Russia is indeed the weakest of the 3, but believing Europe can take on China and USA is grand delusion that I am willing to laugh at a bit. I'd laugh more if it wasn't tragic tbh.

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-aataa-@reddit

Russia is weaker than several individual European countries. They have nothing in common with the US and China.

Europe has an industrial base, economy, military strength, and population to compete with both China and the US. What Europe lacks is unity (there are more than 30 different countries). I'm not OVERLY optimistic on behalf of the future of the European project, but the potential is there

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VisibleReport5008@reddit

russia has energy though which keeps them relevant and EU industry tool huge damage since they dont use cheap russian oil anymore.

neither EU or America can compete with the china but America has the big tech giants wich EU doesnt have.

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how Europe is less dependent on energy what kinda cope is this. USA is self sufficent on oil and its the biggest oil producer, one of the biggest exporters. And china has crazy green energy investments and uses all that russion oil rn.

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Stverghame@reddit

Europe has an industrial base, economy, military strength, and population to compete with both China and the US

Looool, sure, bunch of German grandpa's will fight alongside Arab immigrant youth 😂

Nice laugh once again!

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Familiar-Weather5196@reddit

The US can't even invade Iran, with a population of ~90 million people. What makes you think they can invade the entirety of the EU, that has more people in it than the US? Delusion? The US failed in Iran harder than Russia in Ukraine. They may have the biggest army in the world, but the current administration is beyond incompetent. If they were to invade now, for whatever reason, I doubt they'd win.

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Stverghame@reddit

The US can't even invade Iran

And what can Europe do? Send messages of deep concern?

All the "forces" are paper forces. You, Russia, USA. All you can deal with is countries of less than 10 million.

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-aataa-@reddit

This is somewhat true. It's HARD to occupy foreign countries! If there is anything we should have learned since 1945 is that brute force is WAY to expensive to use effectively. The US should've learnt that in Vietnam, but they needed to be taught the same lesson in Iraq and Afghanistan, but they STILL hadn't learnt enough to avoid the debacle in Iran. Russia obviously didn't learn either when they attacked Ukraine. We'll see if China has paid attention...

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bill_cipher1996@reddit

Your talking of things 30 years in the past

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TurkOmbre@reddit

The Turks do not terrorize the population or destroy Bulgaria's infrastructure. They also do not speak of a nation with two peoples and do not question the Bulgarian nation-state. Furthermore, the Turkish population in Bulgaria is declining year after year (much more so than the ethnic Bulgarian population), while the Kurdish population is increasing.

Under these circumstances, it's too easy to give lessons, but if the Turks of Bulgaria behaved like some Kurds in Turkey, I can assure you that the Turks wouldn't even exist in Bulgaria by the 80s or 90s: all expelled to Turkey

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spisinus@reddit

Geographically speaking Turkiye it's in an unique position. I understand their current problems and limitations but they have some advantages that other countries don't and I think it's important to have them as allies, not as foes. In my option is that it's in Europe interest to help them overcome their problems and to make them a reliable ally than to just exclude them and push them closely to Russia, Iran and China

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Monterenbas@reddit

Allies is great, doesn’t mean they have to, or even want to, become a EU member.

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TheFennecFx@reddit

I haven’t said anything against alliance between EU and Turkey. My post was why I am not seeing them as members.

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SubjectNegotiation88@reddit

Not right now....and even if everyone wanted it, Turkiye needs at least 5 years to align to basic EU legislative standards....like an independent central bank.

Even if all the countries wanted it, wich they don’t, Turkey is nowhere near fullfiling the necessary condition to enter the EU, and probably never will.

Nevermind that the EU have absolutely zero interest in sharing a border with Iran, Iraq and Syria.

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TurkOmbre@reddit

I'm talking about Turkey's integration into the European army, not the European Union. Learn to read before posting; you're cluttering up the thread with pointless posts.

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Monterenbas@reddit

B. What that refer to if not the EU?

I hope you're right, because currently only Cyprus, France, and Greece are against Turkey joining. All the other Europeans agree. I really hope Greece never lifts its veto.

🤡

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TurkOmbre@reddit

The European army is directly the subject of this thread; that's what I'm referring to. Otherwise, I would have said 'European Union'.

yes, nice people call each other shitbag

I seem to remember another orange bear using similar language a couple years back

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Myriad_Apocalypse@reddit

Nice "what happened to the tolerant left" bs

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tabulasomnia@reddit

sorry, I don't do american politics. too childish.

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Myriad_Apocalypse@reddit

You just did.

Calling a dictatorial nation responsible for several genocides and being a bullwark for Russia in the UN a "shitbag country" is just accurate, there's nothing "not nice" about it.

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tabulasomnia@reddit

again, so misinformed.

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Myriad_Apocalypse@reddit

Again, can't say anything specific

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tabulasomnia@reddit

nope, just not bothering to. learned long ago not to engage with bad faith arguments.

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tabulasomnia@reddit

and I'm sadly proven right

Ukraine did support Turkey in the Su24 incident that the Turkish Air Force acted professionally as any civilised country should operate when its sovereign space is violated by another state's warplane.

JarJarBingChilling@reddit

Is it the EU’s fault that Turkey has done only one EU entry chapter?

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Perfect-Nail9413@reddit

Is it the EU’s fault that Turkey has done only one EU entry chapter?

the reason turkiye is on cyprus is to defend its people.

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WackyShirt@reddit

Let me try one:

If Turkey has learned anything from it's neighbors' perspective of history, it's that it's always Turkey's fault.

Yep. This sub in a nutshell.

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thatMrGecko@reddit

glorious.

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TurkOmbre@reddit

Absolutely, yes. The European Union speaks of an obligation to recognize genocide in the events of 1915 involving a non-EU member state (Armenia), and also the 1974 partition of Cyprus (a country that was not an EU member at the time). France still colonizes New Caledonia according to international law, yet it is one of the founding members of the EU. Germany has still not recognized its genocides in Africa, and neither has France. Economically, Eastern European countries were completely unprepared, yet the EU accepted them.

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JarJarBingChilling@reddit

Absolutely, yes. The European Union speaks of an obligation to recognise genocide in the events of 1915

adamgerd@reddit

Leave NATO then

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Michitake@reddit

I agree with that. If Türkiye and Israel were to go to war today, I have no doubt which side NATO would be on. They are unreliable. They've never made a decision in our favor or in our best interest. When it comes to war and defense, they suddenly make statements like "Turks are reliable," but in reality, they manage all kinds of anti-Turkish policies. For a long time, European funds have been supporting terrorist organizations lmao This isn't an emotional decision, it's a logical one.

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adamgerd@reddit

What anti Turkish policies has Europe done?

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Perfect-Nail9413@reddit

Harbouring PKK terrorist Turkey several times has reported several individuals to EU countries but was dismissed until the Russian invasion happened only after that did Europe treat Turkey's security has a major concern.

Before the invasion, the other NATO countries also put an embargo on military equipment to Turkey and condemned its efforts to protect its southern borders.

At one point, the French were working with the Russian to overthrow the UN recognised government of Libya and install a mass-murdering Africa warlord in power.

Several NATO nations set up a one-sided blockade to stop Turkey from helping the UN recognise the government.

Fun thing is the reason why Russia was able to kick France out of it's former colonise was because France was working with them against Turkey, which allowed Russia to set up a foothold in French Africa. Today, the only reason why Russia was able to wage war in Europe was because Russia was able to siphon resources from those former French colonise.

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adamgerd@reddit

Turkey had to protect its southern border by invading Syria and fighting the Kurds in Syria?

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When was the last time Russia did an attack that killed Europeans in the EU.

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mustafaby703@reddit

That does not constitute a major threat, that is precisely my point. Has your country, or any European country, experienced genuine terrorism? Allow me to answer, no.

There are still suicide bombing attempts in Turkey carried out by Kurdish militants, and there were also attacks by ISIS several years ago.

This is a foreign concept for Euros, you guys have no real understanding of urban and guerrilla warfare.

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adamgerd@reddit

Russia is absolutely a major threat to Eastern Europe.

And yes,

In the late 1930’s we did, Sudeten German terrorism supported by Germany

Also ISIS attacked Europe too, Paris 2015. Maybe not as much terrorism as Turkey but yes

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Oh please, the Americans forced a junta on Greece and it fell in 6 years due to the people.If the majority in Turkey wanted Erdofan gone,he would be long gone by now.

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thatMrGecko@reddit

pal, eu and us did so much to convince regular-ass countryside turks that erdoğan was the best thing since sliced bread, it was crazy.

if you still believe most people own their own minds and beliefs, there's nothing I could say that would wake you from that dream. but the reality is perception is everything and, in turkey, if a young leader with a conservative background has great relations with and financial support of all the western world powers, they will get the votes.

Not to mention given how recent middle eastern war is going , turkey needs independence big time.

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hgaben90@reddit

I won't lie and say I'm super involved but isn't this more about a "NATO breaks up because the USA is throwing a hissy fit, but something should happen after"-scenario?

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TurkOmbre@reddit

NATO will never collapse; Trump lacks the political capacity to withdraw Europe from NATO. Europe wants to detach itself from NATO because of Trump and the United States as a whole, which are becoming far too unstable, and because the interests of the two blocs are diverging, as well as out of a desire to form a bloc against Russia. In short, this has absolutely nothing to do with Turkey. Turkey is already pursuing its own policy and is not so radically opposed to Russia. Turkey doesn't need to get involved in all these changes; it remains aloof, as it did during World War II.

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userrr3@reddit

We do not need another country with a crumbling economy and an authoritarian leadership in the EU, we got our hands full with Hungary already. If Turkey manages to come around, get rid of Erdogan and become a democracy once more, and stabilize its economy, we can talk it out.

Turkey since its foundation has become a master in balancing between all powers. It is highly unlikely that they will ever commit to a pan European army.

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Perfect-Nail9413@reddit

Turkey since its foundation has become a master in balancing between all powers.

Learned it from the Eastern Romans empire.

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Routine_Pie_6230@reddit

Because it has a very strategic position in the area. Between Asia and Europe, between middle East and Europe. What hurts more about the old conflict between Greece an d turks, is that if they would shake hands, they could harvest goods out of those waters between them, oil and natural gas, and sell them to Europe, besides using that for they're own purpose. Turkey won't be dependent of Russian oil and natural gas anymore, and it will huld even more it's path to neutral country. On a second thought, I doubt Russia and America would agree on that ideea of harvesting resources. That would mean none of the two would sell oil and natural gas to Europe or Turkey.

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Outside_Resist_8319@reddit

Europe will be attacked by US before Russia or China if they will not handle northern oil, gas and precious element fields ( even at the center of Europe) to US companies for nothing. There is also one more thing maybe two.. Northern transfer passage and North Pole. Those two will be extremely important in the near future. This is my take. I may be wrong.

Elmalukat@reddit

Ukrainian Army is competent and the best when it comes to drone warfare.

It is not the army of before 2014.

Turkish army might be better but there is no need to downplay Ukrainians

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ChanclaTodopoderosa@reddit

“The best” sure buddy. The best at using European weapons

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kus-avci@reddit

suck hostility towards turkiye in the comments.

there are alot of people with chips on their shoulders

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adamgerd@reddit

Please this thread is Turks salty over maybe having to help Europe

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TurkOmbre@reddit

This proves once again that Turkey's independence is crucial and that it is necessary to be a united nation and people.

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kus-avci@reddit

Turkun turkten baska dostu yoktur.

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TurkOmbre@reddit

Kesinlikle ve bunu milliyetçi duygusuyla demiyorum, gerçekten öyle.

Hatta daha öte gidebiliriz : Türkiye’nin kendisinden başka dostu yoktur daha mantıklı. Diğer yarı bağımsız Türkî ülkelere de güvenmiyorum, Azerbaycan KKTC dahil, onlar bile kin kusabiliyor.

Is Ukraine and Türkiye more important than countries like Denmark or Belgium when is comes to military? Yes. But the major players that matter in European military is the UK, France, Germany, and Poland.

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BROkun55@reddit

No need for Turkish to understan this 😂😂😂😂

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HumanMan00@reddit

Play this right and we have Magna Byzantium opportunity here.

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Administrative_Fox0@reddit

Europe is like an elephant who had one foot amputated. They’ll agree on an army when the continent will unite in Pangea again

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IndustrialAndroid@reddit

There is no reason to think anybody in Europe is thinking about this seriously. Europe has started moving towards upgrading its defense capabilities while drawing wartime knowledge and now how from Ukraine and treating Turkey as a defense partner if and when interests overlap. That's it.

The idea that European politicians would want Turkey to fight for them is laughable, the idea that turkey would go with it is even more laughable.

Zelensky more likely means that Turkey with its black sea access is pivotal to dealing with Russia, not that turkey would fight in place of Europe. That is why he also mentioned Norway and the UK. So countries with good geography + the right capabilities are useful to Europe, that's what zelensky says.

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Impossible_Web_4332@reddit

According to this comment section I think Eu should consider kicking some of it's members for peace and I don't mean Hungary.

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Jaded-Ad-4675@reddit

You mean the EU should kick out the countries that say ‘no’, because, you know, Turkey occupies the land of another EU nation? Definitely buddy.

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Impossible_Web_4332@reddit

Country that constantly bankrupted in every 10 years and blames the EU is perfect example

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Critical_Parking_671@reddit

Europe is already incredibly powerful. It's capabilities are undersold. 2000 advance fighter, 100 subs, 150 destroyers and frigates.

This is a hell of a mass and that's without a war economy.

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MagnetofDarkness@reddit

Common Zelensky L

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FantasticQuartet@reddit

I don't know what Zelensky's goal is to mention Turkey so often, but he needs to understand that Turkey is kind of a red line for many Europeans.

Ukraine, for all of its obstacles, is a much more likely candidate to find sympathy for entry in the EU and they shouldn't try to lump themselves with Turkey.

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Ok-Club-7675@reddit

Why should anybody take what Zelensky says, seriously?

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We shouldn't need Turkyie or Ukraine because they have guns. It's my rather unpopular opinion that we need each other for vastly different reasons. Which have nothing to do with things that go boom - unless we're talking fireworks.

Most doomscrollers go haywire over how screwed the EU is. Weak military. Yada yada. Russia is a steaming pile of shit, humiliated for four years straight by the country it was supposed to steamroll in three days. Apparently the mighty gazillion billion trillion dollars military behemoth is getting it's ass kicked by Iran. And I'm supposed to worry about someone having the balls to attack us? And us somehow taking a d*** up our asses? And who's that unnamed enemy we should fear? Aliens?

Yeah, I'mma call bullshit on this one. I sincerely think there's not one single country on the face of this earth that can take Europe on. No country has the manpower combination of manpower and logistics to take on an alliance spanning an entire continent. This scenarios is dumb beyond words.

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