Popping sound in speakers
Posted by b4rf3r@reddit | buildapc | View on Reddit | 6 comments
Hi everyone! I have two Monitor Speaker shooked up to my pc via speaker wires and an extra aux cable leading into my guitar amp modeler (Axe FX II). Whenever the amp modeler is connected to my speakers, I have this incredibly annoying popping sound in the speakers that also seem to somehow be connected to what I do on the pc (?). Like if I move my mouse, the sound intensifies, or if I scroll or something. Also if the fan strength rises in the PC, the sound gets worse.
All three of them, the PC, amp modeler and the speakers, are hooked up to the same extension power strip which should by my very limited knowledge and research deduce the problem somewhat.
I would really appreciate some help here, as I am losing my mind over this sound!
Ill link to a recording of the sound if I can.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/x0zr3im004zopj8i79g6m/Sound.mp3?rlkey=if9yfb2myciii5d671yngviaa&dl=0
[](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/x0zr3im004zopj8i79g6m/Sound.mp3?rlkey=if9yfb2myciii5d671yngviaa&dl=0)
postsshortcomments@reddit
It's what's called EMI (electromagnetic interference).
Let me give you an ELI5 rundown of what's technically happening here:
You have two types of signals: digital or analog. An analog signal is much like a real sound wave, think of that bouncy and pointy visualization of music that you see on a TV commercial. I'll call this a wave. A digital signal is more boring. To oversimply a digital signal, a very basic digital signal basically has two states - a 1 or a 0. Think of a camel's back. You either have the normal back (a zero) or the hump (a one). It's very hard to mistake one for the other.
For practical purposes, all consumer grade audio equipment eventually converts over to an analog signal. That is just required for playback on something like speakers or headphones. But all digital sources (spotify, a music file, a video game) exists in a digital signal. Eventually that digital signal arrives at what is called a DAC (digital-to-analogue converter).
When a signal transmits digitally, it's easy to tell if it's the camel's back or the hump. Its still prone to EMI (electromagnetic interference), but because a zero and a one are magnitudes greater than each other.. the device can estimate "this is a camels back, this is a hump, done, done, done reconstructed - OK now let's convert to analog." With analog signals, or that wave, it's a lot harder to reduce the EMI noise (there are ways to do it such as a separate cable measuring just the noise - but this isn't exactly a setup you see with most consumer grade equipment).
So DAC (digital-to-analogue converters) are the way we convert a digital signal to analogue. Everything needs one. Your 1990's Gameboy has a DAC, your blutooth headphones have a DAC (wireless signal is sent digitally, they convert it to analog), your motherboards soundcard has a DAC, etc., If EMI is a problem, the goal can either be to reduce EMI, shield things from EMI, or preserve the digital signal as long as you can to get it as far away from EMI sources as possible (basically, use a USB device that's a DAC to push it down the foodchain). Motherboards and soundcards sometimes come with good EMI shielding, but it can be sketch especially if there's a grounding issue in the case.
EMI comes from a lot of things. Your computer case is an absolutely massive source of it. Bad wiring in the walls can be a source of it. Any USB device like your mouse uses electricity to communicate with the motherboard.
So with that all out of the way what troubleshooting steps would I take here? Isolate all of your analog audio cables and run them in ways where they do not intersect with any other cable. What's likely happening is that your mouse cord and speaker wire OR motherboard audio output are "crossing." When you move your mouse, an EMI signal is sent through the USB cable and a speaker wire overlapping and that speaker wire is picking up the EMI signal from the mouse. This is extremely common.
A lot of desks have cable management holes which are great for digital signals. As I explained: yes interference is happening here, but it's rarely enough to confuse a camels hump with the camels back. If you run your analog audio cables through that same hole, you'll likely have degraded audio quality.
One fix can sometimes be a standalone DAC. This is a little box with a USB cable that basically takes over the role of your motherboards soundcard (you're now bypassing it and a USB device becomes much like the soundcard). The downside of standalone DACs is that they're typically intended for headphones or 2.0 setups. For 5.0/5.1/7.0/7.1 your DAC is often either a home theater box or a quality motherboard with EMI shielding (make sure those cables don't cross or run them through something with more EMI shielding).
I don't know your exact config, the pipeline, and where things are in the food chain - but I'd bet you being strategic in running any analog audio cabling it may solve it. If you don't add a DAC in an EMI safe part of the pipeline, you'll probably still have some EMI interference on your analog signals.. but you can usually get it sounding 'good enough' without it.
Sorry if I explained that bad or there are typos. I did a quick writeup and didn't proofread it. If anything doesn't make sense, I can attempt to explain it better.
b4rf3r@reddit (OP)
Hello and thank you so much for this thorough explanation. I do believe I have a better understanding now! Extremely grateful. I have some questions about this all, if you have the time and energy for it.
When you say that for example my cords are "crossing", do you mean litterally? Like the cables data or whatever are crossing over and interfering with eachother because they are touching or too close?
Someone else mentioned that I should get a 1:1 audio isolator, do you know what kind of cable that would be for the aux cable between the speakers and the amp modeler? Because that does seem like the culprit here, as the noise disappears when I unplug it from my amp modeler.
postsshortcomments@reddit
Yup! That might be why when you move the mouse and scroll you hear the buzzing. When idle, a mouse doesn't transmit much information. But if you start moving it around or possibly clicking, a mouse USB cord with poor shielding or an audio cable with poor shielding can pick up interference. If an analog cable is close enough, it can sometimes pick up EMI from this 'activity.'
Remote controls can do it, too. I have a remote control for my ceiling fan and light. I usually keep that remote right in front of my keyboard, which is about a foot away from my DAC. If I use the remote when it's too close to the audio cable, my headphones will start buzzing while I'm holding the button. If I have an aluminum can on the desk, that typically extends the range even further as it acts kind of like an antennae extender.
Your modeler isn't directly sitting on top of the tower by any chance is it? I ask because it could explain it picking up the case fan noises. If an aluminum can = antennae a case with poor EMI can be too. Try moving the modeler a bit further away from the desk/setup for trouble shooting purposes and see if it continues.
Touching cables yes. There could be an other or different issues causing the popping, but "picking up the sound of the mouse" definitely sounds like a mouse cable & analog cable crossing issue. If the mouse is wireless, the analog cable may be too close to it on either the case tower I/O side or on the desk top.
I've never used one before so I am unsure. Cables crossing definitely sounds like the first diagnosis that I'd look for though (given "picks up mouse noises" there's a good chance that this potentially part of the issue). Move the actual modular away from anything emitting EMI (things with batteries, other cables, case etc.,) Make sure that especially the aux cable & any analog devices plugged into it do not intersect with any EMI emitters.
If a guitar or something plugs into the modeler, also make sure that does not intersect with a mouse cable, other USB cable, or any EMI sources.
Sorry I can't be more helpful on the more specialized devices. It does sound very similar to issues that I've encountered with home theatre/DACs/cable management that I've encountered.
This could make sense if we assume fan strength is associated with peak loads and peak loads = higher wattage and higher wattage = more EMI.
If my solution is correct what I may expect to see is your modeler is sitting directly on top of the case or under the case with is a massive bundle of cables running out from the motherboard I/O directly over the modeler. Or possibly your guitar cable draped over the computer case, directly into the modeler.
b4rf3r@reddit (OP)
Thank you so much again for the reply. Ill post an image link here to my real setup. My modeler isnt on top of the case, as you will se.
I do however bundle my cords and cables together a bit on the back since i really have a problem with not having cable management, which im guessing can be a problem. Maybe a good thing for me to do is 1. try to physically separate the things that Im hearing is giving the noise and 2. by process of elimination try to bundle cables together in a way that doesnt make the noise?
postsshortcomments@reddit
Sounds about right, yup. Unbundle your speaker wires and the modeler AUX cable and let them hang free. Ideally they'll all be free, but you might be able to bundle them together (technically they could get what's called "analog crosstalk."
Same rule of thumb for any analog headphone cable.
b4rf3r@reddit (OP)
Oh and also, i made a super fast schematics layout here, if it will help you. https://imgur.com/a/3NSYeTg