What was the perception of statutory rape in the 1990s?
Posted by hotmamaspimpdaddies@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 257 comments
I was watching a soap from the 1990s and an adult woman slept with a fifteen year old boy and they were all congratulating the boy saying he scored. I obviously know this is a product of it’s time, but it’s difficult for my brain (I was born in 2002) to comprehend that nobody understood how wrong that was. I am asking if during this time, there were some people (even a minority) who had caught on, or if nobody at all saw a problem with this at the time.
Only-Savings942@reddit
In the early 90s my best friend at school, who was 14 years old at the time, was going out (and having sex) with an 18 year old. I didn’t think anything of it at the time but as an adult now I can’t believe we all just accepted it… including her parents. We’ve discussed it as adults and she didn’t see that it would’ve been seen as grooming today
Level_Engineer@reddit
Is she ok now or has it affected her mentally?
DrFriedGold@reddit
Do you think these girls aren't having a good time being with a guy with money and a car?
Boys their own age with mere paper rounds can't compete.
zerumuna@reddit
I was 15 and was groomed and went out with a 19 year old, I'm now in my 30's and still negatively impacted by it. How poor is your view on life that you think it's fine because the men in question had shit cars and shit jobs?
Level_Engineer@reddit
At what point did you decide it was grooming?
zerumuna@reddit
I had to attend therapy and worked it out with a therapist.
DrFriedGold@reddit
If boys your own age had cars and money would you have still been 'groomed' by slightly men?
zerumuna@reddit
What is this even supposed to mean? 😂
thespanglycupcake@reddit
How little do you think of young women to think that they can’t have a relationship because they want it and assume they are being groomed? I went out with a 19 year old when I was just 16 - there was no grooming. He was a great bloke, completely respectful and treated me well. When I was 17, I also dated someone in their late 20s. Again, I knew exactly what I was doing. It never really occurred to me in either case that it could be considered grooming (probably would now) because it was nothing of the sort. I’m now happily married to someone 2 years older than me. I remember most the boys my own age being self absorbed at school - it’s a fairly well known fact that girls mature faster than boys. It’s not a great surprise that girls often look to slightly older boys.
zerumuna@reddit
You were over the age of consent in both of those circumstances, I was under and was actively groomed.
Did I say anywhere in my comment that every single girl who dated an older man was infantile and couldn’t consent?
On top of that, I was 27 before I was ready to accept and understand that I was a victim of grooming and abuse, prior to that I was of the opinion that I made my choice and it was consensual so what happened to me was my own fault. These are complicated issues, one size doesn’t fit all, some of these relationships are harmful and some aren’t.
thespanglycupcake@reddit
If you’re trying to imply I haven’t realised I was groomed yet, I’m nearly 40. A lot of marriages are harmful, too. I’m sorry that you had that experience but the de facto assumption these days seems to be that anyone in a relationship with someone older is/was groomed…my feeling is that completely belittles the ability of young women to make their own choices.
ch536@reddit
At 14 I was going out with a 17 year old. I honestly don't think it's that big of a deal really
Sername111@reddit
In the early 1980's one of the guys in my class was having sex with the mother of another of the guys in the class (he was 15 or 16, she was mid-30's). I thought it was a bit weird but it never occurred to me at the time to describe it as rape, but because she was hot pretty much everyone else acted as though he'd won the lottery.
thisthrowawaythat202@reddit
Did the mother know that everyone at school knew?
Rhubarb-Eater@reddit
The poor son!
NessaGuin@reddit
My best friend became my best man at my wedding and now he is my step son.
bibonacci2@reddit
I think that would have been a fair reflection. By the 90s, I would say we had moved somewhat past the point of older men and underage girls being ok (which was definitely more acceptable in the 70s).
For teenage boys, any sex was lauded. It wasn’t seen as abuse, and the boy would’ve been considered lucky, and most of the time would have considered themselves lucky. It wouldn’t have been the norm to consider it abusive.
THXORY@reddit
Except if it was sex with another male. Unbelievably, the age of consent for gay males wasn't equalised until 2001, and "Section 28" was still in force in England until 2003.
bibonacci2@reddit
Oh yeah. Older men and teen boys would definitely have been considered rape. The 80s was very homophobic, though it got a bit better in the 90s.
THXORY@reddit
Took a very long while for the law to catch up. There's a good podcast on BBC sounds about the "Bolton Eight" - a group of young gay men in Bolton who were convicted under the ridiculously homophobic laws that were still in place - unbelievably in 1998. As I recall, one of them got put on the sex offenders register because he was about 19 or so and had slept with a 17 year old (the age of consent for gay men at that point was an unequal 18), and another pair got convicted for gross indecency because they had had sex in their bedroom while someone else was in the house. Unbelievably, it was still illegal then for two gay men to have sex anywhere but a private home with nobody else in but them.
Needless to say, none of them would have broken any laws if they had been straight and done the same. The law didn't fully equalise until 2001.
ekke287@reddit
I’m not sure a UK soap opera is the best evidence for what’s acceptable in society.
glasgowgeg@reddit
Whenever something like that happens more recently in real life, you'll get men in the replies saying they wish they had a teacher like that, etc.
It's absolutely not something specific to soap operas.
seshwan33@reddit
It’s actually perfectly good as those soaps are long running so you can get a really good comparison of what the content in them was then vs now and the publics response to that content.
wildcharmander1992@reddit
I mean it kinda is but in the opposite way
Usually the storylines will be things that are uncomfortable topics/problems to bring up in real life but that do occur in real life
So to put it in say EastEnders and throw in a splash of sensationalism will get people talking about the storyline and in turn the problem ( this is why EastEnders in particular adopted the tagline "everyone's talking about it")
It's hard to see signs that a loved one is being domestically abused - boom little mo is showing all the signs and we see them but the family miss them
Etc etc.
Point is if the soap they're watching is focusing on a topic then the opposite to that topic is the nom 9/10 the other 1/10 is something that's unfortunately the norm but they want to show why it shouldn't be ( early seasons of grange hill with corporal punishment for example )
g00dbyem0onmen@reddit
Ironically they are doing the story about a teen boy sleeping with his teacher in corry atm.
SellItCheap@reddit
Emmerdale did that story 8 years ago and now tye victim is involved in a bullying story at the hospital where’s he is training to be the doctor, while he and his new wife are having a kid with her grandmother as a surrogat, but the kid is actually the surrogate’s biological kid with the bad man who she had her 3rd biological kid with 10 years ago
DrFriedGold@reddit
Is he being high-fived to death?
spannerintworks@reddit
I'd have thought it was a very good way to judge what the mood at the time was. Soaps are actually great for this sort of thing.
Hairy-Lingonberry-41@reddit
And I'd imagine that's the reason why they're asking others on here
glasgowgeg@reddit
Look at the comment section on any article about that happening now, and you'll see a bunch of middle aged guys saying the same now and how they wish they had a teacher like that.
Many men will still glorify abuse by women against young boys.
ShinyHeadedCook@reddit
I was born In 1980. At school in the 90s a lot of girls in years 10 and 11 had older boyfriends picking them up in cars at the end of the day
melanie110@reddit
Yep. My best friend at 14 was pregnant by a 28 year old. My cousin who was 15 shacked up with a 45 year old.
All the girls in my year who were 15 were all dating 23/24 years olds.
Nobody batted an eyelid and teen pregnancy was rife in our village. All these girls are now grandmas at 44/45. This was in the 90s
TeamOfPups@reddit
Yeah it's weird being mid 40s. Some people from my school year have young babies, some are grandmas.
DiamondL0st@reddit
I was at high school from 2006-2010 and this was very common then too.
They were seen as losers who couldn't get girls their own age rather than predators.
Warburton379@reddit
I had a (highly religious) teacher around 2010 who tried to justify to our class his 14 year old daughter having a 22 year old boyfriend when we all told him it was fucking creepy.
hairychris88@reddit
My RE teacher left his wife for a girl who'd just finished Year 11 (so just turned 16). Proper fucked up but nothing happened to him.
spik0rwill@reddit
The age of consent was 16 back then, wasn't it?
Specialist_Archer771@reddit
Still is
MrLewk@reddit
I thought it still was?
Alternative_Head_416@reddit
The age of consent is still 16, unless you’re in a position of trust (eg. Teacher, religious leader etc.)
drastic2@reddit
Eh. It’s based on state law. The only federal law has 18 as the age, if the action involves crossing state lines or other trafficking /exploitation issues. The states themselves: 27 are at 16 years old, 7 at 17 yo and 17 at 18 yo with a bunch modifying the rules based on age or position of the partner.
Warburton379@reddit
Check which sub you're in
drastic2@reddit
Shoot.
pineappleshampoo@reddit
Ironic.
spik0rwill@reddit
Oh i thought that they changed it to 18. My bad.
THXORY@reddit
The only western country that has an age of consent of 18 is some states in the USA. The very religious states. They're also outliers with the age you can drink alcohol. It's 21 in all of the USA but 18 or lower everywhere else in the western world.
Level_Engineer@reddit
What is it now?
THXORY@reddit
In the UK for gay men it was completely illegal until 1967. It was then set at 21 in 1967, and was reduced to 18 in 1994. Unbelievably, it was not equalised with the heterosexual age of consent at 16 until 2001.
The age of consent for everyone now is 16, except in certain circumstances with a person who has a position of power over them, such as a teacher.
crucible@reddit
Yes. Now there’s a “position of trust” clause so it’s 18 for teachers.
DameKumquat@reddit
And there's now clauses in contracts to say teachers,.lecturers, social workers, police etc can't have sex with anyone who they're working with.
In 1993 it was considered wackily right-on for Cambridge University to have a policy that if a lecturer or tutor had any relationship with a student, even a one-night stand, that had to be declared before exams happened, to ensure they didn't mark that student's script. Loads of piss-taking about exactly what level of contact when, might have to be declared.
To be fair, most of the tutors involved with undergrads were post-grad students only 2-5 years older, who didn't set exams nor moderate the results... but not all, by any means.
crucible@reddit
It’s kind of worrying there has to be a clause written into contracts now…
It’s about the first thing you’re advised during interviews if you work in a school… also told to report it if you feel a pupil is trying to get close to you.
DameKumquat@reddit
It is now. It sure wasn't in the 90s!
When I started secondary in 1985, there was a scandal because (posh boarding school) a prefect got pregnant by a lad who worked in the kitchens. If it had been a male teacher,. no-one would have cared, but the class barrier was too much and she refused to have an abortion, so she got expelled.
Englishmuffin1@reddit
One of our art teachers did that 3 times with girls leaving 6th form and still got to see out retirement at the same school.
His second wife was teaching at our school whilst he was grooming his third wife. He left her a few months after girl number 3 finished her a levels. His ex had to quit her teaching job out of embarrassment, which was a shame, as she was a really good teacher.
stpizz@reddit
Did you go to my school? :D
kaneofmoh@reddit
One of the lads in my year ended up having a relationship with our History teacher after school. Some old school friends said that they remembered seeing them being quite over friendly when speaking to each other in school. I dont even think he ever had her as a teacher 'cause he was a top-set student and she was one of the junior teachers that they gave all the bottom-set classes to 'cause they are the trouble kids that fucked about in lessons. Senior teachers didn't wanna put up with that shit lol. We left school in 2000
Level_Engineer@reddit
These days though that's 100% pedophile
On_The_Blindside@reddit
Paedophile describes someone who is attracted to pre-pubescent children, i.e. Ian Watkins. It's a really horrible, evil, thing and I don't think it's something we should be diluting.
Level_Engineer@reddit
I agree, but nowadays the definition has been expanded
smelliepoo@reddit
I agree that it is thought to have been expanded, but the correct term for an adult attracted to teenagers is a hebephile.
Level_Engineer@reddit
So and 18 year old adult who is attracted to a 19 year old teenager, for example?
Get off the fence and be specific.
smelliepoo@reddit
A hebephile is an adult who has a strong, persistent sexual interest in pubescent children, typically aged 11 to 14. This term is distinct from pedophilia, which refers to attraction to prepubescent children, and ephebophilia, which refers to attraction to older adolescents aged 15 to 18.
Google is a thing, you can even search on other engines.
RunningDude90@reddit
The only people who seem to say this are those who are attracted to 12-18 year olds.
On_The_Blindside@reddit
I always assumed people who make your exact comment are projecting
smelliepoo@reddit
And those who have worked with exploited children and have to have some of the proper terminology in their work place.
mostlybaffed@reddit
Nowadays, the discourse has flattened
QAnonomnomnom@reddit
I think the reason we don’t make those distinctions is because it’s very hard to explain the difference without sounding like a pedophile
https://youtu.be/nu6C2KL_S9o?si=jhic73X2wuOdJVPx
Level_Engineer@reddit
OK so what age is an adult?
smelliepoo@reddit
Well a legal adult is 18 years of age, however the brain is not fully formed until 30/31 (and some studies suggest even later - the brain is a funny thing and can change throughoutlife thanks to neuroplasticity, and when you add mind into the mix you have a whole metaphysical bag of worms to open) adolescence finishes around 25 and personality is more set around 30.
Take your pick as to what you believe, but an 18 year old is allowed to be with whoever they want - ehebephile or not! I don't suggest that the legal age of adulthood should be any later than 18, but i look back at that age and I know i was still just a child brain in an adult body and any 25 year old was trying their luck because women their own age wouldn't put up with their crap.
QAnonomnomnom@reddit
I think the reason we don’t make those distinctions is because it’s very hard to explain the difference without sounding like a pedophile
https://youtu.be/nu6C2KL_S9o?si=jhic73X2wuOdJVPx
Straightener78@reddit
Remember the News of the World were doing this? They were putting the names, locations and photos of all known paedophiles in the paper every week. But there was no distinction. They would show a man who abused a toddler and right next to him would be a photo of a man who slept with a 15 year old. Not saying it’s right but it’s definately not the same
medphysfem@reddit
Very similar time period to me, and a friend of mine was dating a 23 year old at age 15. From memory, he either worked for the police or wanted to work for the police. I thought he seemed like a loser and we drifted apart.
Very very wrong, but I'm pretty sure they ended up getting married.
Level_Engineer@reddit
How old was the boyfriend you had at the time?
cloud__19@reddit
What does that have to do with anything?
Level_Engineer@reddit
In a conversation about age, ages aren't relevant?
cloud__19@reddit
To that person's anecdote about their friends? No not in the slightest. Why do you think it is? Why do you think they even had a boyfriend?
medphysfem@reddit
Haha thank you for responding, I only just saw this. As it was, I was queer but still in the closet so I definitely didn't have a boyfriend!
ExpensiveNut@reddit
They thought the 23 year old was a loser because of their age and dating choice. Take a wild guess.
Beautiful-Joke-7089@reddit
I went to school 2013-19 and it was really common then too. Concerning i mostly saw this happening at a youth center for 14 to 20 year olds in the center of Bristol. Dont let your kids go to The Station, otherwise you'll definitely be sending them to Brooke upstairs (under 18s sexual health clinic)
Wretched_Colin@reddit
When I was 15-16, I was bemoaning the fact that the most pretty girls in our year in school were going out with 21 year olds. Talk of them going to restaurants, holidays to Spain, drinking wine etc.
I remember a mate saying to me “don’t worry, when we’re 21 we will have our pick of the 16 year old girls.”
When I got to 21, the last girls I’d want as a girlfriend were those under 18.
The guys they tended to go out with were in work, rather than uni students. They would have had a car, maybe even their own place, and a few quid in their pocket. But they must have been a bit sub-normal to have a school age girlfriend.
s_polaris@reddit
I was in secondary school in the early noughties, and two of my classmates had 25-26 yo boyfriends at 14. Even back then, I thought that it’s not right, and there must be something wrong with the guys when they’re not with women their own age. But the adults around us did nothing, and the students in my class quickly silenced the ones who tried to speak up.
Dadda_Green@reddit
Yep, I can remember in our early 20s we had someone on the periphery of our social circle (someone’s ex) who was a little older and had a 15 year old girlfriend. It definitely wasn’t thought well of but he wasn’t ostracised. One of my wife’s friends had a boyfriend 10-12 years when she was 15. It was in the Dales and definitely not seen as a bad thing. I’m glad that now my daughter is that age that views have changed.
hauntingruby1975@reddit
There was also the scandal of the maths teacher dating 3 lasses in 6th form. He was eventually fired when one got pregnant by him
ATSOAS87@reddit
I thought this was weird at the time, as an adult it's creepy as fuck
hipposaregood@reddit
When I was 17, I told a teacher that there was a 20 year old 'dating' a 14 year old girl in his class and she'd asked me if I knew where to get condoms. The teacher kind of acted like I was being a little jealous stick in the mud about it? So jealous of child abuse. The recent past feels like a fever dream sometimes.
Cautious-Carrot-1111@reddit
Yes! At 16 I was going out with a 23 year old and he’d pick me up from school in his Vauxhall senator, and this was the norm, there would be loads of stupid souped up cars parked along the road at 3:15 (cosworths mostly ha!) with early 20s lads in them picking up their 15/16 year old girlfriends. I’ve told this to my 21 year old son before and he thought I was winding him up
spittingparasite@reddit
I was one of those girls in the late 80s. We were expected to be flattered by the attention, rather than repulsed by men who pursued underage girls. I think - hope - that attitudes have changed. My own kids have far better boundaries and parents who give a shit.
givesyouhel@reddit
Same here. There were girls sleeping with teachers regularly too.
Melodicmat@reddit
Same!! We had loads of girls getting pregnant at school at around 15. They would be picked up from school by their boyfriends who were around 22+. The teachers saw/knew. It was a complete 'non issue'. Nothing was ever said or done. It was considered normal. Mad how times change!
THXORY@reddit
The playwright Andrea Dunbar based "Rita, Sue and Bob too,_ on her experience of having a baby at 15. There's an interview with her from 1981 where she says so many girls back then used to get pregnant out of sheer boredom. "There's nothing else to do". It reminded me of just how crushingly bored we used to get back in those days.
Raychao@reddit
I was born in 1979. When I was 15 I was dumped by my girlfriend of a few weeks because she wanted to go out with a Uni guy that she met out clubbing. The girls would all go out and try and meet older guys. There was this myth that 'girls mature faster than boys'. The age of consent was 16 and people would openly joke about 'becoming legal' and 'losing your v-card'.
People didn't think of themselves as victims and predators. People were just matter of fact about this stuff in the 90s.
THXORY@reddit
The age of consent is still 16
TeamOfPups@reddit
A 79er here too!
From my perspective, we'd look at the 16 year old lads around us at school who we'd known since they were 11 and they were still like wee puppy dogs kicking footballs about and pinging bra straps and flicking wadded up balls of paper and dicking about never bringing a pen to school.
But in those days we had freedom to be out clubbing and having Saturday jobs, and the slightly older 18/19/20 year old guys we met there were just that bit more grown up. We didn't see that puppy dog side of them, they were willing to have a chat and treat girls like people.
At the time we talked about it in terms of girls being 'more mature' than boys and I see that's a tricky concept now as predators use it to groom younger girls.
But at the time - for some of us at least - that two to three year age gap simply felt like it evened things out a bit.
AdAffectionate2418@reddit
Born in 1986 and I feel like I saw the very end of this. When i was in year 9, there were lots of year 9-11s dating guys in upper sixth/leavers, but we definitely found it strange.
By the time i was in U6th there always maybe the occasional U6th/y11 relationship, but it really felt like both student and teacher perceptions on the age gap had shifted significantly over the 4 years
sin0shine0@reddit
Yes I remember this too, I was 14 and my boyfriend was 19, I felt it was normal, we dated for 2 years. Although now I think it's weird, it wasn't weird to me then.
the-green-dahlia@reddit
Same. I was 14 and my boyfriend was 19 and it seemed totally normal at the time. I wasn’t the only girl at school with an older boyfriend. We only dated for a few months, but now I have a niece of that age and I’d be horrified if she was dating a 19 year old for any length of time.
sin0shine0@reddit
Well my dad wasn't happy at first, he went round to the boys house and threatened to beat him up! 🙈 Although in the end he just accepted I wasn't going to break up with him 😆 like I was convinced I would marry him and he was the love of my life as you do when you're a teenager 😂
000000564@reddit
I was born in the 90s. 13-14 year old girls in my class had 18 year old boyfriends.... I was in an area with a lot of teen pregnancies too so not totally surprised in retrospect.
highrouleur@reddit
I'm 3 years older. In my local town the boy racers used to drive round in the fiestas and novas while picking up very young girls.
Always in third year (now year 9) English one girl was talking to her table mates and everyone was being loud. For some reason everyone else was quiet just before she blurted out "I hate shagging in cars, you get carpet burn on your arse"
crucible@reddit
I could have written this exact comment…
OK, so I didn’t exactly have a chance with the ‘fit’ girls in my year, but it did stick out that a lot of them had older ‘boyfriends’ who collected them in clapped out VW Golfs and Vauxhall Astras at 3:15 pm every day.
And to the 19 year olds I’d now ask “what is it about the 15yo in school uniform that first attracted you to her?”
GoldenGolgis@reddit
Born mid 70s. By secondary school (aged 11-12) a handful of girls in most classes were sexually active with boys from final year, sixth form & even older. By the time we were 14 this was more common, by final year (aged 15-16) if you were still openly a virgin you were considered frigid.
My parents left me at home alone with older boyfriends from age about 13, with a nod and a wink.
Lot of social pressure on boys to lose their virginity as quickly as possible and an older, more experienced girl was often the way.
An absolute mess in every way.
ThatNiceDrShipman@reddit
At my school in the 90s we had more than one professional footballer picking up their year 11 girlfriends after school...
NurseAbbers@reddit
I was born in '83, there were girls in my year who had older boyfriends in years 10 and 11 and those men were... Odd.
I knew of a girl when we were 13/14 that was dating a 21 year old. Very few people knew about it. She got pregnant by him at 15, and they split up when she was 17.
Catface2069@reddit
When I was in Yr 7 (2001) one of my classmates had an 18yr old ‘boyfriend’ some of us thought it was creepy and gross but broadly speaking no one really batted an eye
PerditaNicolette76@reddit
I was year 11 when I first started seeing my future ex husband and dad to my kids. This was 1991. I was 15 and he was 22. He didn't drive but we found ways to meet. We didn't become official until I ran away from home when I was 17. My mother was a narcissistic Sociopath my therapist said that is what she would of been diagnosed with if she was ever honest with her psychiatrist. We also waited till then to lose our virginities together. I think i was his second girlfriend. He was actually one of 5 brothers and the youngest and the shyiest. We split when I was 29. We remained friends until he passed suddenly last year aged 56.
hyperdistortion@reddit
A couple of years older, and yup, I remember that kinda thing.
A girl in my class (well, she’s an almost-40 woman now…) got a job in a Toby Carvery not long after turning 15, and not long after started dating one of the cooks. He was 20-22, as I recall. And her friends’ reaction was to congratulate her on getting with an “older, mature guy” - rather than asking why a dude old enough to have graduated uni was picking up a girl studying for her GCSEs.
I’d like to think that 20+ years later, that kinda thing would be seen as it is: seriously creepy and a literal crime.
SeesawOk1776@reddit
I got my first 'real' bf when I was 15. He was 21 and used to pick me up from school on his motorbike! TBF, he refused to do anything sexual with me (besides snogging) until a few months after my 16th birthday, which must have been difficult for him as I was totally ready and up for it!
*as an aside, I used to think I was THE SHIT, going into school in leathers and a crash hat.
SeesawOk1776@reddit
This was 1990 BTW, I was born in 1974.
Fyonella@reddit
How old are years 10 & 11?
Snowey212@reddit
14/15 & 15/16 year olds
joeythelips46@reddit
15/16
CaptainMcClutch@reddit
I was in high school at the start of the 00s and this was still happening. I knew someone who was 13 or 14 getting picked up by her 23 year old boyfriend, the other people in her year all thought it was "cool" and we were a year or two above thinking it was a bit weird but it wasn't uncommon.
There was a guy who was like late 20s early 30s infamous in our town for just driving round town in a souped-up Red Honda Civic dating high school girls. Everyone just assumed these guys were losers.
Open-Tip6407@reddit
I remember a few of my friends had older boyfriends who picked them up in cars after school. They all met them in nightclubs.
daneview@reddit
I remember one of the boys in my school Was about 16 or 17 and had a 28 year old My old boyfriend Which we took the piss out of Briefly but no one really cared
ODFoxtrotOscar@reddit
Statutory rape isn’t a term used anywhere in any of the British legal systems
Predatory behaviour, including but not limited to, sexual contact with those under the age of consent was in generally looked down on, and depending on the age gap sometimes prosecuted
dreamponies@reddit
I was at a girls’ secondary school in the 1990s, then uni towards the end of the 1990s. I and plenty other girls at school had advances from male teachers. There were some girls that actually went for what they believed to be “relationships” with teachers. I was also hit on repeatedly by uni professors (sometimes with various promises for grades attached 😔). None of this was scandalous, it was just the norm. We used to warn each other about which lecturers to dodge at end of term drinks etc. Obviously I was over 16 at uni, but it was still someone in a position of power putting pressure on for an inappropriate relationship. The thing that makes me most sad now is how normal it all was. That said, I have teenage girls and I really worry about spiked drinks which isn’t something we really thought about.
Misogyny was rife and accepted back in the 1990s, but somehow it feels worse now. I think it is because we have moved on and we should know better, but there’s still that strong incel/real man/Andrew Tate culture. I haven’t watched Louis Theroux’s Manosphere yet as I think it will be depressing.
charley_warlzz@reddit
I think it wasnt as frowned upon, but it wasnt totally okay. There was an actor (ironically a soap actor) who lived where my mum grew up and dated one of the girls at her school (he was over a decade older) and they generally disliked him/thought he was a bit of a creep. It was definitely more forgiving back then, but there was some acknowledgement of it being weird.
Funny_Tank8531@reddit
Can’t think of hearing the term statutory rape growing up, social / sex education definitely never taught age difference relationships, I knew 16 was age of consent but don’t even know if that was discussed, pretty much just use condom so don’t get STDs and guess hope the girl is preventing pregnancy.
Started high school 96, my perception was as long as the boy was 14 a Mrs Robinson relationship was fine, maybe 16 for girls with those men 19-20 and older as it’d be more than just sex for them.
Moop_the_Loop@reddit
I left school in 1995. Noncing was normal both ways. We complained to the head about one of the science teachers being gropey. We got told that we know what he's like, stay away from him. Some of my friends shagged teachers in year 11. My boyfriend was 22 when I was 15. If any of the lads got anywhere with an older girl it was high fives all round. One of my brothers mates shagged his mates mum when he was 17. All seen as normal. The mate wasn't happy though!
Melodicmat@reddit
we had a male teacher who would sit at his desk whilst all of the girls (maybe around 12-13?) got undressed for PE, and he'd stare at them and drool. Some of the kids complained. Nothing happened.
I also remember another teacher who would let a girl called Stephanie (RIP) who was about 15, sit on his knee and read a book in English class. She would massively flirt with him as she sat on his knee, say suggestive things in between pages, grind on him, make sexual noises etc. He loved it. He was about 50 I'd say
It's all insane to think back on now!
Moop_the_Loop@reddit
That's so creepy. I'm so glad it's less acceptable now.
tacticall0tion@reddit
I mean even when I was in high-school/collage around 2010 you'd still have been a legend for that
WorcsBloke@reddit
The attitudes surrounding this kind of thing have really, really changed in that time. I'm almost convinced I can remember an edition of Top Gear magazine from roughly that era wherein the author of the article (not sure who) was test driving a Lamborghini or something. He drove past a secondary school at home time, and there was a line about how he had thoughts about the 14 year old girls that he shouldn't have, or something like that. Treated as a slightly edgy line and as what you'd expect to find in Top Gear magazine. It was wrong and sounds horrifying now, obviously. But back then it was clearly intended as no worse than pushing it a bit. This was a magazine with the BBC name on it, remember.
It's possible I am misremembering, given how long ago it was. But the dates are possible (the magazine was launched in 1993) and it's stuck in my mind for many years.
Short-Bee1550@reddit
‘Statuory Rape’ isn’t a thing in the UK. It’s part of the penal code of California, and the rise of Hollywood probably explains the changing perceptions.
In the UK it is a crime to have sex with someone below the age of 16. This was true in the 1980s for heterosexual intercourse, however until 1994 the age of consent for gay men was 21. This means anyone having sex with a 15 year old would be committing a crime, regardless of consent, even if they are 14 themselves. Both teenagers in fact commit a crime if they have sex with each other.
Rape is a separate crime, so if they do not consent you’d be charged with that. These days the sentences for both are similar, but prior to 2005 it was much lighter with consent.
The idea that children under 16 can’t consent seems to be a recent internet statement, full of contradictions when you consider two 15 year olds. In the 1980s we knew teenagers had sex.
Having the age of consent for gay men be 21 highlights this starkly. Nobody thinks 20 year olds can’t consent, but it’s the exact same law. Queer As Folk in the 1990s included a 15 year old having sex with a 40 year old as the main character, this was illegal but would have also been true at 16, and was there to make a point about equalisation of ages of consent, but looks dodgy in hindsight.
THXORY@reddit
The Queer as Folk fifteen year old was also there to reflect the realities of what the writer, Russell T. Davies had seen in the 70s and 80s. It was far from uncommon to see 15 year olds back then out and about, not only on the gay scene, but also girls in straight bars and pubs.
It was a complicated issue in the gay world, because a lot of kids of that age ended up on the gay scene because they did not have any other possible outlet for their sexuality. Their schools and families were often grossly homophobic, and many of them had actually been thrown out by their families. So the gay bars became a kind of sanctuary for them. They'd often be protected by regular punters, but the police also often knew about it and didn't always clamp down on it because they viewed it as a useful means to track the whereabouts and well-being of a lot of those kids.
Looking back, it's absolutely astonishing that the age of consent for gay males wasn''t equalised until 2001. It's amazing how much attitudes have changed.
northerncodemky@reddit
I cannot watch that scene where Stuart brings him to the birth. Like ‘here look who I’ve just raped!’
THXORY@reddit
It's all a bit of a distant memory to me now. I remember though just how groundbreaking it was at the time, but over the years I've come to really dislike Russell T. Davies stuff. You can tell he used to write for kids TV. One of my friends said that Russell T. Davies "writes in primary colours". I think that's a good description.
I've started listening to a podcast called "The Log Books" which is genuinely interesting. It looks at notes that were taken on the Lesbian and Gay switchboard in the early 1980s, and which have been preserved in their filing system. It's an absolutely fascinating look at gay life back then. There's one episode about the advent of AIDS and sadly one or two of the people contracted the virus when they were 15 or so.
There's also a very good documentary about the early days of AIDS in the UK on YouTube called "After82: the untold story if the AIDS crisis in the UK". It features among many others the surviving boyfriend of Terence Higgins. He actually got HIV in Germany when he was 16, before he met Terence Higgins. Amazing that he survived. He became a virologist.
https://youtu.be/m7vaP_lrlxU?si=7z5rbCZNbTAzIe-Z
zerumuna@reddit
This is not quite correct. In England and Wales Statutory Rape refers to sexual activity with someone under 16 by someone who is over the age of 18. It is a Strict Liability Offence meaning you simply need to have committed the offence physically, it requires no mental element which is something like intent.
As the legal wording requires the offending party to be over 18, this would not capture two 15 year olds having sex, as is the intention of the law.
This is then further clarified under the same law stating any sexual activity with a person under 13 is classified as rape and is a crime, regardless of the age of the other party.
You're correct that the laws around gay men / sodomy were more complicated than this though.
Farsydi@reddit
Well, you're wrong, but you're at least confidently wrong. You seem to have taken this from the top answer on Google, which is an unsourced solicitor firm website. Here is the relevant law:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/9
As you can see from 1.c.(i), if the over 18 has a reasonable expectation that the person is over 16, that is a defence. Therefore that's the opposite of a strict liability offence.
The term statutory rape also does not appear in English or Welsh law at all.
zerumuna@reddit
I‘ve taken it from the dusty memory banks of my law degree, which admittedly is now very old. I always remember it being the main strict liability offence, however I must have been thinking of s5 which is under 13s, thank you for the correction :)
Statutory rape is not the correct legal definition but was used colloquially all the time throughout my degree as it’s found throughout legal journals often.
crucible@reddit
You are also missing the ‘position of trust’ clause we have now, so the AOC is 18 if the person they’re seeing is in a position of trust over younger people, eg a teacher or college lecturer.
ICantBelieveItsNotEC@reddit
The thing that you have to understand is that the cultural perception that 18 is where adulthood begins (I've even seen some people claiming that it's 21) is a very recent development.
Until the last decade or so, it was fairly normal for people to leave school at 16, get a job, and move out. At that point, there was essentially no visible distinction between you and any other adult - you were in exactly the same life stage as people in their mid twenties.
The perception started shifting as further and higher education became more common. At this point, most people essentially aren't seen as "real adults" until they graduate from university.
johnnycarrotheid@reddit
This is where the cultural perception and Scotland clashes heads tbh.
Still leave school, get a job, get married at 16 up here. Still have the adult at 16 perception, but a lot of influence from England/US where it's 18.
The Uni thing, I started at 17, could have went at 16 if I had my Highers (our A-levels) as they only take 1 year instead of 2. Every English/NI student there was at least 18 some 19.
Thankfully wasn't too much of a pain to get into clubs as a 17yr old student back then lol
DameKumquat@reddit
Totally. And you only have to go back another generation to when leaving school at 14 was normal - the 1933 kids who had to hang about at school for another year got blamed for a big crime wave in 1947-8 - eg my uncle.
My grandparents were expected to leave school at 12. They were then working adults. The entire concept of teenagerhood and extended childhood is a modern luxury - if you told my granny in 1990 that a 15yo was a child who couldn't decide who he/she could go on a date with, she'd call you mad. And given women were generally expected to give in to their husbands (and legally allowed to be raped), and to be financially supported, it was expected for men to be older - ten years older was considered perfect, in the 1920s.
TeamOfPups@reddit
Yeah I think this is a really important point.
I went to a failing comprehensive where fewer than half got 5 GCSEs. Even in the late 90s most kids I knew left school and started adulthood at 16. It does alter your perception of the boundaries between childhood and adulthood. I went on to university, but even so I thought of myself as an adult from 16.
And my parents treated me as an adult at 16 as well - I went to nightclubs, could have a boyfriend stay over, travelled about the country without adult supervision to go shopping in big cities or go to a gig. At 16 my parents went on holiday for a week and left me in charge of their shop.
It would've been absurd to me at the time to think I didn't have autonomy from age 16 to make decisions for myself including who I had relationships with.
CatsChat@reddit
I was a teen/early 20s in the 90s. For one thing there was a double standard where a teen boy who slept with a mature woman would be seen as scoring and the woman seen as liberated in her sexuality. Of course there are no homogeneous views in any age but this wasn’t uncommon to think like that. Teen girls dating guys over 16/18 (16 was the age of consent in Australia and the U.K. in the 90s) was pretty normal. I remember girls in my year at school going out clubbing (fake IDs), meeting a couple of footballers who were take with them and sent flowers to the school. So they knew they were younger (though plausibly 16+). Older people had a different attitude and side eyed larger age gaps more. I don’t think that’s changed too much. It was pretty normal to date guys 2 years older, 3 was not unusual. A few of my friends dated people who were a bit older, generally the girl grew up and outgrew the manchildren they were dating.
THXORY@reddit
The age of consent is still 16
CatsChat@reddit
Thanks, forgot I was in the U.K. group for a moment. I’m used to USians in groups getting funny about 16 year olds having sex
Soggy_Tangerine9340@reddit
I can remember a teacher at school explaining why we shouldn’t judge the 14 year old girl in our class with a 27 year old boyfriend. Her reasoning was she was mature for her age.
Bounty_drillah@reddit
In secondary school from year 9 onwards, there'd be girls in my year going out with grown men. Getting into their boyfriends Saxo at the school gates most days. I don't remember anyone kicking up a fuss or the school getting involved.
Things is when I turned 18 I was only interested in girls my own age, definately wasn't chasing schoolgirls.
hhfugrr3@reddit
There was a girl at my school in the mid-90s who was dating a 26 year old when she was 16. Seemed a bit weird, although I never thought about it much beyond "how am I - a 16 year old boy - supposed up compete if the girls are into adult men".
Solid_Western_138@reddit
I "dated" a 31 year old man for a few months when I was 17. So wrong looking back.
Level_Engineer@reddit
Have you considered reporting him? He might still be doing it
Snowyrunt@reddit
Report him for what? It's legal. Questionable, but entirely legal.
Wretched_Colin@reddit
It seemed normal to me as a 16 year old boy.
Seemed all sorts of wrong to me as a 26 year old man.
Can you imagine the conversations?
Andyrhyw@reddit
Paedo
SnooTomatoes1958@reddit
Depended on the age gap. Teenage girls and men (anywhere) in their 20s was common and acceptable. 30+ and people started talking.
EastisSE@reddit
It was normal for men of all ages to say “old enough to bleed, old enough to breed” and not feel ashamed
THXORY@reddit
Exactly. The other phrase you used to hear was "If there's grass on the wicket, let's play cricket'
JohnCasey3306@reddit
Not withstanding statutory rape (of course), the furore around age difference, among consenting adults, is an entirely recent phenomenon.
skankyone@reddit
I started secondary school in '81 and I recall the PE teacher was boning one for the sixth formers, the staff knew, so did the kids but nobody gave a shit. Just took the piss. But this was the same school where my geography teacher was a die hard commie. You'd see him blast in, on his BSA, German WWII helmet and trench coat...the guy was a real fucking nutter. Dangled my bro out of the second story window for talking and you'd regularly get one of those wooden board erasers bounced off your head lol.
Dadda_Green@reddit
I don’t think that depiction would be wildly far of the public mood at the time. You only have to look at some of the comments aimed at 15/16 year old Charlotte Church at the time to get a sense of it. She was named “Rear of the Year” at 16 and has made public statements by Chris Moyles who offered to take her virginity when she turned 16. The attitude towards boys targeted by predatory women is still very different now. Back then I can’t imagine very many condemning it at all.
THXORY@reddit
I remember back in the mid 1990s, the Sunday Sport ran a countdown until a girl turned 16 so they could show her topless. The law wasn't changed until some years later.
Throughout the 1980s you had the likes of a then 16 year old Samantha Fox posing topless in the Sun newspaper. And all with the encouragement of her dad. Some of the articles that were written are truly vile and have an almost incestuous tone from her dad. It's stomach churning.
hyperdistortion@reddit
Not forgetting the countdowns in national newspapers (and websites, etc) for when Emma Watson turned ‘legal,’ and similar for the Olson twins. Seriously sketchy stuff, and that would’ve been in the 00s.
THXORY@reddit
Our concern for these things really is a relatively recent thing. It wasn't uncommon at all in the 1970s and 1980s for teachers to be sleeping with pupils, teenage pregnancies were absolutely rife, and the whole attitude to blame was almost the wrong way round. The victims were just as likely to be blamed for "being promiscuous". It's also worth noting that kids were viewed as being more adult at an earlier age. At 16, working class kids in particular were often expected to finish school and go out and go into full time work. Many of the generation before that had done it at 14 or 15.
I remember one court case from the early 1970s where a man had slept with a 14 tear old. The judge gave him a lighter sentence because he said he was going to marry the girl as soon as she turned 16 to protect her honour (!!!). It's like the crime was viewed as having had sex outside of marriage and the shame was all the girl's.
If you want to get a good idea for social attitudes, I'd recommend watching the 1987 film "Rita, Sue and Bob too". It was viewed as a comedy. It's about two 15 year old schoolgirls who end up having sex with a man twice their age that they're babysitting for. It was based on the life of the playwright Andrea Dunbar, who had a baby herself at 15. The actresses who play the schoolgirls are much older than the characters they're meant to be playing.
In one scene, the wife of the man confronts the two girls and blames them for what's happening. She says that it's their fault for "putting it on a plate for him" and "he wouldn't be much of a man if he did anything else".
That very neatly sums up social attitudes back then. Men were almost expected to be predatory and hypersexual (hence the reason why that 15 year old lad was congratulated) and any girl who slept with such a man was to blame because of her stupidity and loose morals.
Key-Seaworthiness227@reddit
Friends and I used to hang out with people older than us. When I look back I think how immature they were - and whilst I don’t want to say predatory - that’s what it was. This was mid 90s. We were underage, they weren’t (and some of them were old enough to buy alcohol) so there was definitely a power dynamic. None could drive (thankfully). Several of the girls got pregnant before or at 16. The lads scoffing that they “didn’t like to use condoms,”. It gives me the ick now - both how we were and how they were.
Cheese_Dinosaur@reddit
I remember in the late 80s a girl in the year below me, so around age 14/15 had a ‘boyfriend’ who was 32. Nobody batted an eyelid! 😳 I also look back at my middle teens and we were 14/15/16 and were hanging around with men in their early 20s!! I’m mortified now as a woman of 53!! I was talking to my friend about it who was around at that time and she was too, her boyfriend was 22 and she was 15!! 😳
Melodicmat@reddit
same as gaps as I remember. All the girls in my school (14 and 15) were getting picked up by their 23 year old boyfriends and some getting pregnant. Teachers would literally walk past them getting picked up and even watching them kiss, and didn't bat an eyelid. It just wasn't a 'thing'.
Cheese_Dinosaur@reddit
100%! There’s a girl I was at school with whose son is 38..!
Visa5e@reddit
South Park nailed it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Teacher_Bangs_a_Boy
this-guy-@reddit
We thought his dad was a creep. We thought his mum was a kind of fallen angel.
DandyLionsInSiberia@reddit
Ew. Thankfully, that particular nonsense passed me by at school.
That said, as an LGBT, you quickly realise the dating pool isn’t so much small as basically invisible, so yes, older men it was.
Before anyone clutches their pearls, nothing happened until I was 18 - and even then it wasn’t exactly scandalous. He was only a few years older, fairly handsome in a low-key way, a bit “worldly” without being insufferable, and if anything it was more companionable than anything else. Good music, stable job, shared nerdy interests, and the novelty of someone actually having their life vaguely together. Decent kisser, humour, respected boundaries, no drama.
I didn’t come out of it feeling slighted or anything grim like that. It was actually a pretty solid first experience, formative without being intense. Would I have preferred someone my own age?,yeah. But in Northern Ireland at the time that was more of a theoretical option than a real one.
Most LGBT people my age were either closeted, half-closeted, or dealing with enough chaos that dating them felt like signing up for a full-blown soap opera.
Hopefully things are a bit better now, less secrecy, less melodrama, and more actual choice between peers. It's definitely better to date a peer closer in age and experience+ navigating things together rather than leapfrogging..
Some of the responses here are a bit concerning though.. a 15/16 year old dating men in their twenties sounds a bit.. well.. questionable (to put things mildly).
Farsydi@reddit
By the way you have used the term statutory rape which has no meaning in UK law. It's just sexual contact with someone below the age of consent.
And the answer is, no one really cared on either end. The understanding of grooming has developed a lot in the last 20 years.
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
The situation you describe isn’t statutory rape
bex9990@reddit
Is it not? That's exactly what I thought it was!
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
Nope. We don’t have statutory rape law in the UK
bex9990@reddit
Thanks for the edit to explain!
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
I haven’t edited my posts
bex9990@reddit
Ok. I'm probably just imagining 'edited' written next to your post. Thanks anyway.
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
Where?
bex9990@reddit
Next to your name on the first post you made in this thread.
When I asked the question, all I could see was:
'The situation you describe isn't statutory rape'
After I asked the question, there was an explanation, plus 'edited' written at the top.
highdon@reddit
r/confidentlyincorrect
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
Think that might be you rather than me. There’s no statutory rape law in the Uk
highdon@reddit
It’s a technicality. The law still exits, it’s just not called “statutory rape”. The law defines age of consent clearly.
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
Right. But it’s not something you can be charged with in the UK. So let’s not normalise American legal phrases. People are misinformed enough as it is
highdon@reddit
Let’s not go the other way though and say such law doesn’t exist though which might give the wrong impression that it is legal. At the end of the day engaging in sexual activity with someone under the age of 16 is a criminal offence.
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
No one thinks it’s legal. Everyone knows 16 is age of consent
WhatWeHavingForTea@reddit
Should have tagged yourself in that, or at least done some research first. OC is correct, there is no statutory rape law in the uk.
Targettio@reddit
15 year old is under the ages of consent. Therefore is statutory rape.
DameKumquat@reddit
Statutory rape requires a statute (law) calling it rape.
So no, statutory rape didn't exist for under-age sex then, and doesn't now unless the younger person is under 13 - though there's a range of crimes that are popularly lumped in under the American term 'statutory rape'.
The concept of teachers etc being in positions of power and thus banned from sex with those under said power only dates back legally to the Sexual Offences Act 2003. A few schools might have policies against it in the 90s, but generally it was considered a perk of the job.
On_The_Blindside@reddit
Because people will no doubt downvote this as some sort of tacit moral approval of the acts described, I'm going to get ahead of that and express right here that it is not approval in the slightest, this is an explanation of the Law as it applies in England and Wales. Nothing more.
There is no crime under the Sexual Offences Act 2003, there are legal defences available to those who have slept with children between 13 and 16 in that the accused must have reasonably believed the child was indeed over 16. For example, if an 18 year old went home with a 15 year old from a nightclub, they would have reasonable grounds to claim they thought they were over 16, as they were in an 18+ environment.
This defence is not available to those who have committed an act against as child younger than 13 which is covered under Section 5 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003.
electact@reddit
The situation they described is the literal definition of statutory rape
On_The_Blindside@reddit
Not nesscessarily, because we don't have that classification in the UK more than anything. It comes under the Sexual Offences Act 2003.
If the victim was 13 or over and the purportrator had a reasonable grounds to believe they were older than 16 (i.e. they met in a place only typically accessible for 18+) then that legal defence is available to them.
GrumpyOldFart74@reddit
The person you’re replying to is technically correct.
There is no such offence as “statutory rape” in UK law - that’s entirely an american thing (assuming it even is there - my knowledge of US law is limited to TV and movies)
In UK law the offence is “sexual activity with a child under the age of 16”
Undefined92@reddit
In England & Wales 'statutory rape' only applies if the child is under 13, having sex with someone aged 13-15 is illegal but not considered rape.
Odd_Ingenuity2883@reddit
My mum was 15 when she got pregnant with my sister, my bio dad was 21. I am the only member of my family who considers her to be a victim.
presterjohn7171@reddit
I was a teenager in the late 70s and early 80s the idea that a 30 year old woman who was having sex with a 15 year old boy going to jail was absurd. That was most boys dream and your father would have been delighted for you most likely. If the sexes were reversed there would have been a beating involved a scandal and depending on the individual criminal proceedings. It was very much a different time. I remember 16 year old page 3 girls in the newspaper and famous middle aged men dating 16 year old girls. It caused sneering and gossip amongst some and jealousy amongst others. 40 years later and it's a different world.
Pleasant_External871@reddit
It seemed so normal then. I was a teenager in the 80s. At 13 I had a boyfriend who was 20. My mum and stepdad knew. Looking back now, it seems wild and I can see he was a loser. I can't fathom it now. Without condoning it, it was a different time completely. And I remember the page 3 girls being so young too. When you think about the whole picture, it is so wrong.
presterjohn7171@reddit
It's social conditioning I suppose. I genuinely don't ever being turned on by page 3 girls but we did all have favourites so I can't pretend we didn't like them. I had a boss who was 24 and for a short while went out with a girl in the sixth form. Frankly she looked and acted like an adult. I do wonder if anyone has studied how perception changes the harm done. Nobody thought twice about being caned either back then but I think my kids would be traumatised if that happened to them now.
SnooObjections3103@reddit
The adults used to sexualize the hell out of us teenagers and kids in the 90s. Look at any Brittany Spears video.
Royal-Sock-IV@reddit
Someone I knew was 16 and slept with his girlfriend who was 15 at the time, he obviously thought this was fine as there was only a year difference but her parents thought otherwise. He was prosecuted and was charged, obviously not only did he get charged but they broke up.
I think a lot of people only see the age difference rather than the actual age, I'd like to think nowadays there is a lot more consideration involved.
paulmclaughlin@reddit
The definition of the offence of Sexual Activity with a Child (who is over 13) requires the perpetrator to be 18 or over.
Royal-Sock-IV@reddit
Well now I have no idea why he was taken away, I might need to ask someone and see if something else actually went on. Weird.
Level_Engineer@reddit
He wouldn't have been 'charged and prosecuted' for that lol.
Did he 'serve time' for doing what literally every single teenager does?
Royal-Sock-IV@reddit
Fuck knows, it was none of my business, we all just saw him get arrested at school. Only telling you what I know, don't shoot the messenger!
Level_Engineer@reddit
The worst part is they broke up
daneview@reddit
That is ridiculous tbf and shitty parenting
fussyfella@reddit
Firstly the offence for an adult having sex with a 15 year old in the UK is "illegal sexual intercourse" not "statutory rape". UK law (in all jurisdictions) acknowledges someone under 16 is capably of making autonomous decisions about their body, but has decided there are some they should not be allowed to make, and similar that there are things other people should not be doing with them.
For it to be considered "rape" the person has to be below 13 when they are seemed not capable of making that decision.
As someone who remembers being a randy 14 year old, that all seems like a pretty sensible way to arrange the law. My wife tells a story of when she was 14, throwing herself at a very well know popstar she had a crush on - as it happened she did not get to him, but as she puts it she absolutely would have had sex with him given half a chance. Calling that "rape" seems to me wrong, although having a law that stops people going out to seduce young teens seems pretty reasonable.
zerumuna@reddit
It is still referred to as Statutory Rape within the UK all the time, and the specific offence is sexual activity with a person under the age of consent. It is deemed within the law that a child under the age of 16 is not capable of giving informed consent to sexual intercourse, however the law is written in such a way that it is not an offence if it is two people both over 13 and under 16 years of age, as policymakers believed this to not be within the public interest to prosecute.
MrPejorative@reddit
I'm a male, but when I was 18 an older woman (mid 20s) that I worked with figured out where I lived and let herself into my house and bed. She'd seen me at the nightclub that night, but I was really drunk so my friends took me home. We once shared a taxi home after a nightshift, but I lived in #300+ in a maze of housing estates. Think of when you play Sim City and you just go crazy painting all the residential blocks. I lived somewhere in there and I have no idea how she remembered it unless she was some kind of Rapist Rain Man.
I was new to drinking, pretty innocent and black out drunk so my only memory is being naked with her and just mostly confused. I asked her a bunch of times why she was there and how she got there. I remember her saying "I wanted to be here, and I always get what I want". I also remember her smoking in my bed and blowing smoke in my face, making that stupid face smokers make when they exhale.
She left a bunch of lovebites on my neck for some reason too. I asked her to promise not to tell anybody and she agreed, but I walked into work with everybody asking to see under my collar. It was the big joke of the week.
Even my friends knew there was something weird about the situation, but we were still very much in that phase where it was "Well you're the first of us to get laid, so Good for you, right???". I never told them how I really felt about it, because how could you? You got laid right?
Well I was humiliated later by it and left that job, but that's "my fault" for not being social enough, or at least that's how I wrote about it in my diary at the time. I never saw it as a bad thing happening to me, but me reacting badly to what "normal people" do. There was a slow realisation over this period of time that normal people were often quite bad people, particularly people who saw alcohol or drugs as part and parcel of those kinds of behaviours.
Does that answer your question? That was how people reacted to any kind of sexual assault. The idea of even calling it a rape never occurred to me until years later.
GMoI@reddit
Even now, the perception of an adult woman with a teen boy and the perception of a adult man with a teen girl is very different.
It is still very difficult for people to see men and boys as victims. If I remember correctly in America they have ruled that an 11 yo child is responsible for paying child support to the babysitter that assaulted them. Despite the fact no one disputes the fact that it was SA.
Also specific to the UK under law women cannot rape men as rape specifically requires the perpetrator to have a penis.
People will argue that the Sexual Assualt law does cover it and has the same theoretical maximum but it doesn't work that way in practice. The SA law covers everything from cat-calling on up so it's a catch all where the minimum is no where near the same.
Those same people will say that the amendment to the 2003 SA law for specially 'upskirting' was necessary despite it already being covered technically. Now don't misunderstand me, I agree with the voyeurism act amendment, I also think that rape of men by women should also be called rape and treated the same under the law.
Unfortunately, in regards to being seen as victims men and boys have a long way to go. Not the UK but pertinent, look up a documentary film called 'An Open Secret' from 2014 about the exploitation of boys and young teens in the film industry.
depressedblondeguy@reddit
The newspapers were waiting for Charlotte Church to turn 16 hoping she'd get her tits out
jolittletime@reddit
Also Emma Watson. And Lindsey dawn mackenzie did her first page 3 on her 16th birthday i think. Sam fox was also 16 when she started doing page 3 in the 80s.
jcmush@reddit
Quite a few of the page 3 models who just turned 16 will have had their photos taken when they were just 15.
jolittletime@reddit
Ugh. Disgusting
GlitteringBryony@reddit
I remember in the late 90s, being a 14-year-old boy and trying to broach it to my Mam and a couple of my aunties that I thought it was a bit... Weird? That there were girls in my year at school who had boyfriends in their 20s, and the only response I got was a jokey "Oh haha you're just jealous that you have to compete with lads with their own cars and a bit of cash who can take them out to nightclubs without worrying about getting IDed!" And me being really distressed that nobody older seemed to find it... Wrong. As a kid, it seemed obvious that these adult men weren't having meaningful, equitable relationships with these girls, they were exploiting them.
But then, when I was 15 I was going to gay bars and hooking up with much-older men, and the big difference was a) That they would never have dreamed of being seen in public with me and b) They would have been outright lynched if it became public knowledge. People can be smart about other people's lives and stupid about their own.
witchestoscarebairns@reddit
I think attitudes have changed a bit, but I'm afraid (as previous commentators have said) if it came up today there would still be people saying "I wish that had been my neighbour!" or something along those lines. I'm afraid when it comes to women abusing boys, there is still a large group of the population who don't consider it abuse.
Agitated_Ad_361@reddit
Speaking as a male who was raped multiple times by an older girl, (I was 6, she was 15), it doesn’t get taken even a fraction as seriously as if the roles were reversed, even though it fucks you up just as much.
Wretched_Colin@reddit
Without wanting to get too personal, does a six year old have the anatomy to engage in sexual activities ?
eraserway@reddit
What a braindead question. Do you think sexual abuse can only occur if the victim has fully matured genitalia?
Wretched_Colin@reddit
No, but female on male rape conveys a specific act which tends to require matured genitalia.
eraserway@reddit
It really doesn't. The word rape used as a colloquial term covers all acts of sexual assault.
Agitated_Ad_361@reddit
That does get a little too uncomfortable to discuss tbh.
daneview@reddit
I think a lot of men can picture still being 15 year olds and thinking "I wpuld have loved it then, and looking back as an adult I'd still be pretty chuffed about it" so dont see the harm in it.
I think its so case dependant, and depends so much on of grooming or coercion were involved, but the law cant be that open to interpretation.
Wonderful_Formal_274@reddit
People still have this reaction now. The media coverage for a man and a woman sleeping with a teenager is markedly different.
shamalamadingdongfam@reddit
I'm around your age and no one cared that I was speaking to much older guys as a teen. Not 20-somethings either, full on middle aged men. I wasn't broadcasting it to everybody, but it wasn't a red flag to the people I was closest to. They just thought it was amusing.
starsandbribes@reddit
Boys have been seen as “men” for thousands of years when you think about, the idea almost being across both sexes that if the parts start functioning, its biologically okay to do it. Pretty fucked obviously but its no surprise that was the logic back then.
I do think as well people project their own insecurities when it comes to sexual discourse. You could look at an 18 year old dating a 40 year old and say its gross, but you’re imagining yourself as that 18 year old, who are all varied and have different level of experience, maturity and confidence. I was shy when I was young but I don’t pretend that other guys my age were perfectly willing and ready to have lots of sex and not be scarred mentally twenty years later from it. I think we make the discourse worse by almost prodding people into being sad about their sex life when they were young.
Monkeyboogaloo@reddit
It wasnt until 1991 that a man could be convicted of rape if it was his wife.
So society has changed a lot.
Sexual abuse to boys was hushed up as seen in the church.
OldEcho@reddit
Media normalized/normalizes this shit all the time yeah. I still see anime coming out in 2026 with some fucking horrendous shit.
Quentin "hire an actress to like her feet and choke her" Tarantino isn't in prison.
And you know, our entire half of the world is ruled by paedophiles.
Living-Bat7647@reddit
I was a kid in the 90s, a teen in the 2000s. My mother told me to date men who were at least 22 when I was 16 because otherwise they'd be too immature. My mother considered herself a feminist too.
I didn't, but I did date someone who was 18 when I was 15, realise there was a reason they couldn't get a same-age girlfriend, then reach 18 myself and realise the thought of dating a 15-year-old was nasty.
twofacetoo@reddit
It still happens to this day. There's multiple cases of female teachers sleeping with underage male students, which the media treats as a big joke or as something the kid should be proud of.
It's never called 'rape', which it is, it's called a 'sexual incident'.
justdont7133@reddit
I'd say it was pretty normalised in the 90s. At my school, loads of the girls would hang around the takeaway and chat up the staff and delivery men. There was more than one "takeaway baby" born over those couple of years and at the time it just seemed vaguely funny and pretty normal. Looking back it's horrifying and I'm pretty sure some of those girls were being groomed, but that didn't occur at the time
Dadda_Green@reddit
There’s a slight irony in the OP’s name. Hot mamas, MILFs or an older woman preying on younger men was a central plot line of the massive 90s hit films American Pie.
ChelseaMourning@reddit
I’m mainly upset that OP is referring to the 90s as if it’s the historical period of the late 1900s.
Also, the Gen Z assertion that everything that happened before the year they were born is ancient history that they couldn’t possibly have any knowledge of.
hotmamaspimpdaddies@reddit (OP)
When did I assert that
yorkspirate@reddit
Go to the comments section on any modern day news article of this happening and an uncomfortable percentage of comments are congratulatory.
In the 90's when I was a teen I'd say statuary rape wasn't ever considered to f consensual unless the genders in the original post was reserved.
ASpookyBitch@reddit
Ive had people fight with me in comments sections when ive pointed out a similar age gap with “well me and my partner are… it’s not weird”
Like just cause you were successfully groomed doesn’t make it okay!
bettybujo@reddit
I had only just turned 16 and had a "boyfriend" who claimed to be 24, but a lit of things added up to make me think he was much nearer 30. I bumped into him again when I was 19 and he was snogging another girl in school uniform
NessaGuin@reddit
That guy from Dazed and Confused "I get older they stay the same"
SdanoG@reddit
When I was 14 ish I was often sleeping with a 21 yesr old female, at the time I thought it was great but when I think back nope that was abuse
CarpeCyprinidae@reddit
Context: In the mid 1990s there was a TV documentary on the Beatles going through their history as a band and their music and its impact. The surviving members gave detailed and extensive interviews that were interlaid wit the story
they all admitted to sleeping with early-teens fans who'd sneaked into their hotels in the 60s.
Today, pop stars might not have the sense to say no but they certainly know its a risk to admit it - in the 1990s nobody felt they should be prosecuted for statutory, not sure they'd take that risk now
DameKumquat@reddit
Didn't exist.
Sex with one party under age wasn't considered rape unless there was actual force involved - the concepts of coerced or pressured sex being rape hadn't been invented yet, so e.g. it was still perfectly legal and normal for schoolkids aged 16 to have sex with their teachers - though a few right-on schools had policies against it. I grew up in the late 70s and 80s just assuming my first boyfriend would likely be a teacher, because I was a shy swot.
And 14 and 15yos having sex was probably the most ignored law in the land, after speeding.
No-one cared, except the odd parent, usually only if both parties were male. 13 was considered a bit off (Bill Wyman and Mandy Smith), but from 14 - basically society hadnt yet caught up that now 14 and even 15yos were meant to be in school, they weren't adults and shouldn't be treated as such. And the concept of the protector/provider husband meant that a 10-year age gap was still seen as desirable, not creepy.
So round 1990 you'd have kids (mostly girls) going clubbing age 14-15, acquiring older boyfriends, and getting into the weekly Evening Standard magazine, with their boarding school and parents in full knowledge, if not exactly consent. My leavers ball included a 17yo getting engaged to a chap in his 40s - her parents weren't enthusiastic, but because of his lack of wealth, not the age.
Rape in marriage didn't exist because it was legal until 1993. The concept of 'date rape' was controversial because society thought if you'd accepted a meal from a guy you owed them sex. And no-one believed that a teenage boy wouldn't be permanently up for it with a woman.
And yes, it fucked up a fair few lads my age. And the girls. Everyone, really. And people wonder why we're protective of our kids now...
NessaGuin@reddit
"He got an erection" was often said, yeah I'm sure you can get hard even under duress because the brain and the knob think different things.
Bella Emberg giving you head and you are screaming no no no but the other brain is going "hey that tickles"
Full-Suggestion-1320@reddit
Back in the late 1980's teacher relatives of ours introduced us to a colleague aged around 30 and his wife of around 21.
The 4 of them happily told us the "romantic" story of how the couple met when he was a newly qualified teacher and she was at school aged 15. They apparently waited to start a full relationship when she was 16 and had just left school, she was quickly pregnant and they married.
Our relatives just couldn't understand why we were horrified and didn't want anything to do with their good friends.
ArcTan_Pete@reddit
dependent on whatever country the film was set in.
statutory rape was part of the law in the US and UK at that time - that should indicate the legal definition - and the greater part of the public perception
the age of consent in the USA depends on which state you are in - I think the minimum is currently 16 in some states. I dont know the history of age changes in the US
even now, if someone has sex with an underage person there will always be apologists for them - and exponentially more people will go 'full apologist mode' if it's an adult woman with a boy
NessaGuin@reddit
I mean, when I was a teenager in school, there were a few teachers I'd love to bury my face in their chest, so guys being the predator will always be bad, but if they are the prey unless it's a same sex relationship, then it's always going to be seen as something to rug sweep and double standards.
A woman recently got put "under investigation" in the USA yet if a male teacher did that, straight to jail.
Films like Rita Sue and Bob too would be a hard sell to remake or perhaps just broadcast, but IIR the teenagers were doing the 90210 method of hiring 20 year olds so they can film adult themes without running into trouble, but if they actually hired the cast of Grange Hill, even though it was fake, there would be an outcry.
Some crime show had an OAP who was into kids have his house stoned and the daughter was killed by one such rock. Later on, we find one of the mob is the father of an unborn kid, the mother was just 16, so he got her pregnant at 15 and no one around him thought that was bad, I can't even remember if they actually took him away in the show, sure there are different age ranges people go for, so he was just skirting below the age of consent, but it wasn't stated that I recall how old the pensioner was going after.
If both went after 15 year olds, then both were doing the same thing, yet only one was seen as the bad guy in the community.
setokaiba22@reddit
Tbh you would still get this reaction for the most part today I think
But if the role was reversed in genders the opposite affect
Society (especially male) views them totally differently
DustInTheMachine@reddit
I think it was seen as an achievement from both sides.
At my high school , early -mid 90s, they built a new theatre. We all fancied the builders. Especially the 2 weeks nicknamed Robson and Jerome (they were Geordies and that's where the similarities ended!)
2 of my then 14 year old friends ended up dating/sleeping with them. These lads will have been early to mid 20s. I was so jealous. The girls social status shot up to "Legends".
A few years later Queer as Folk was on TV and showed the sexual awakening of a 15 year old gay boy. There was at least one very explicit sex scene of him receiving oral sex from the much older (think he was in his 30s) main protagonist of the show .
From memory,the age gap was never questioned but the detail of the sex scene was scandalous at the time .
So as someone who entered the 90s as a 12 year old , I don't recall a big deal being made of "age gap" relationships. I certainly wouldn't have viewed it as Statutory Rape.
Appalling really.
archaeofeminist@reddit
I tried to write a novel in the mid-90s where this had happened to a young male character and it was because I was so angry how flippant the media was. I wanted to show the damage and trauma it caused - how cruel and exploitative it was. I have completed many novels through my life but that one proved too hard to write.
It was inspired by support in magazines and stories for extreme age gap relationships where the male was younger and not yet 16 when they started. One was a middle age mother who kept selling her 'love story' to the media about how she fell in love with her son's teenage friend, they got married, she had babies - and imo she stole everything from him. He missed out on education, independence, dating, the chance to grow up and to me he looked like a cult victim. It was also inspired by 'lucky' schoolboys being seduced by teachers. These were also spun as positive in the media.
Eventually a male victim of a female teacher, who had talked to the media about how great it was at the time, how he thought he should have the right to be with her and how it was real love, spoke out years later about how massively it damaged and traumatised him. People were surprised (they shouldn't have been) and it did start to change the narrative, I think.
DisMyLik18thAccount@reddit
I Recently found a subreddit all about this r/whywereweokaywithtthis
Different-Employ9651@reddit
Aged 17, I had a 24 year old friend (f) who was in a relationship with a 15 year old boy. They had a kid before he turned 17. His parents would take him to her house. Everyone knew. She already had 2 other kids herself. I think it's fair to say that had this been a 24 year old man preying on a teen, it would have been viewed very differently.
remmy84@reddit
It’s still the same on social media. Saw a story last week, 2 female teachers slept with the same 15 year old boy and all the men in the comments saying he’s a legend and where were teachers like this when I was at school. Pretty sick if you ask me
CaptainMcClutch@reddit
It was still common but seen as "weird." My generation were raised by parents who this was a lot more common for. I have relatives that were married at 18 to their older husbands, so a lot of them had the attitude, no biggie.
When I was in high school you'd see older guys picking up girls in their cars and think he was a bit of a loser who couldn't find someone their own age. There were others who definitely thought it was cool, a bunch of 90s comedies have plotlines like the popular girl is seeing a "college guy" she's so cool for that.
Pedantichrist@reddit
It was fairly normal. Sadly.
SignalTransition5@reddit
You can't really pass judgement on things that happened in the past by the morals of today. In 30 years time some things that are considered OK today will be frowned upon or even illegal. When I was a young teen if anyone managed to "score" with a woman of any age he would have been high fived so much his hand would be bruised.
Reasonable-Cat5767@reddit
I had a boyfriend who was 28 when I was 16, though this was early noughties. It wasn't seen as being too shocking back then, though there's no way I'd be happy with my kids doing the same.
Azyall@reddit
I (F) was fourteen in the early '80s and in a relationship (for well over a year) with an eighteen year old guy. No-one worried about it, no-one criticised it. Both sets of parents were fine with it (though you can safely assume they genuinely believed we were not having sex, which we were).
Different times, different attitudes.
Remote_Development13@reddit
My sisters first long term boyfriend was in his mid-20s, she was 15 when they started seeing each other, this would have been ~1999 as he was definitely with us for the milennium new years eve. I dont remember anyone finding this particularly strange. I really liked him because he was good at football and would have a kick around with me
She did tell me a few years ago that he was insistent on not sleeping with her until she turned 16, so thats something I guess
sidblues101@reddit
I had a friend (we grew up in the 90s) who admitted to losing her virginity at 12.....to an 18 year old. She had no regrets but even by the standards of the time that was too much for most of us. We told her she had been raped but she didn't see it that way. What could you do?
Flat_Development6659@reddit
We're going a bit pre-90's but my mum mentioned when all the Epstein stuff started going on that it used to be very common for pop stars to be with young teenagers and nobody really thought much of it back then.
Although it's far less common for it to be an older lass sleeping with a younger lad, I think even today it'd be less likely to be perceived majorly bad that way around.
Braylien@reddit
It was definitely different back then. There would have been some condemning it, but less than now. Quite how different is difficult to judge because we didn’t have social media, so the only way to get a sense of the broader opinion was through newspapers or radio phone ins etc. it was very different in certain regards
deyterkourjerbs@reddit
The thing about Savile is that the girls he raped told their teachers, parents, friends, police, social workers, hospital staff etc. And they probably called them sluts and asked what they did to encourage it. Years later, the Rape Gang victims were told the same thing.
Society was beginning to change in the 1990s but we had a real victim blaming culture. Adult women sleeping with boys was definitely hand waived away. There's an episode of Friends where I think Ross slept with an elderly librarian when he was at school. It was funny because she was so old....
Delam2@reddit
You only need to read the comments on articles about real cases similar to this to know that many people from that generation take a relaxed view of noncing when it’s an attractive women taking advantage of a teenage boy.
The same people who would beat the shit out of a guy who raped their daughter, were the roles reversed, they’d pat their son on the back and say well done.
I would say cases like this were quite common in the 90s and rarely treated as a crime. Obviously children can’t consent but that wasn’t as well understood in the 90s as it is now.
GrumpyOldFart74@reddit
I think this more reflective of sexist double standards than anything particularly of the 90s
Male teacher shagging 15 year-old girl is a disgusting criminal pervert, then as now.
15 year-old boy shagging a female teacher (and I deliberately said it that way round) is seen as a lucky twat that other boys/men are envious of
It’s the same crime and should be viewed with equal disgust, but across much of society it just isn’t.
bananajoker@reddit
Hollyoaks?
Fuzzy_Cantaloupe6353@reddit
Still happening now, it's definitely more 'normal' in some groups than others though.
You see it all the time In comments on news articles and stuff. Congratulating the boy who was groomed by his teacher etc.
Conscious_Analysis98@reddit
I mean, plenty of people would have the same reaction today in real life let alone a tv show in the 90s!
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