How worried should i be?
Posted by Aggressive-Yam-2511@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 111 comments
So i just started renting from this place and this was my second flight from here. Flight went smooth. Was trying to align the airplane with the hanger but there was another plane in front of the next hanger and i was too focused on that plane and trying to align that i struck my left wing on the hanger wall. This is the first incident in my 260 hour journey and i was completely disappointed on how i disregarded taking a look at the wing. So now how much trouble am i in? How bad does the damage look like? Will my rental insurance cover it or school’s insurance? Do i pay anything out of pocket? They told me they will get back to me in Monday? Any suggestions?
adventuresofh@reddit
Should be able to just pull the wingtip off and use a former to pop it back into shape. We had a worse dent from a bird strike on the Stinson years ago and the mechanic was able to fix it through an inspection panel - only took an hour or two of labor.
Shit happens. Between the two of us, my CFI and I have managed to scrape paint on both airplanes - our hangar is pretty tight. I’ve also watched someone clip the nav light right off the wingtip on a hangar door that wasn’t quite open far enough. You learn from it (I always triple check my hangar doors now and don’t let anyone else open them, and always move airplanes with multiple spotters or the airplane will spend the night on the ramp)
Be honest and upfront about it and you should be fine.
Working_Football1586@reddit
Ive seen birds do that much damage, I wouldn’t worry about it. Biggest lesson is if unsure it clears just shut it down,
MediumAltruistic4817@reddit
Did you do it, or just find it during the walkaround?
CockbagSpink@reddit
What does the SRM say?
Midnight-Willing@reddit
Absolutely pull the panel on top of the carry through spar and have the spar inspected for cracks. A hit in that area could potentially create a crack where the wing connects to the fuselage. I know that because I bought a plane back then and while doing an annual they told me that most likely my plane was hit in the same spot as yours as some point because of different rivets in that panel. They suggested to inspect the spar. When they opened they called me and showed me that the spar not only had a crack but the owner tried to hide it with bondo and paint. Eventually did the proper repair as noted by Cessna for about 5k. Worth the money if you ask me.
C130_is_a_Cessna@reddit
Only thing to worry about is what the flight school will say and what your renters insurance will say in the matter, the plane is still perfectly airworthy. I dont have a photo right this second but the 172S rental i flew had a bird strike on the right wing that has a bigger dent than that and its still flying without any problems, not even any gain in fuel burn/hr. It doesnt look big enough to cause any real issues. You should be fine
Wemest@reddit
The proper repair is to the replace the panel. Sheet metal work like this is pretty routine in GA. Remove the wing tip, drill out the rivets. Buy a new panel from Cessna, fit it, rivet and paint. Probably $500 in parts and about 10 hours in labor. Or the school may collect on your insurance and fly as is.
Hfyvr1@reddit
FWIW if you were to “buy a new panel” from Cessna you actually need to derivet a huge section of the wing to do it. That panel spans the entire length of the wing from wingtip to left strut and its $2500 or so last time I checked. More like 30-40 hrs of labour with wing removal. You can splice in a one or two foot section but you need to make new inspection holes on the bottom of the wing to buck the backside. Either way it’s not cheap.
joebbrown@reddit
Yeah, these new Cessna leading edges are glued and one piece. Not like the earlier "breakaway" wing tip. Those are easy
Remarkable_North_999@reddit
The dents and scratches add character.
Whirlwind_AK@reddit
Not to worry; that’s considered “hangar rash”. Will not meet the threshold of reportable under NTSB rules.
Don’t worry.
There will be some sheet metal work - I doubt the wing will even need to be removed and jig’d.
Learn from it and move-on.
Neither_Success_3139@reddit
Sorry, how can i learn the necesary knowledge to give an answer like that?, i'm really interested on the way of aviación and i want to learn even the small concepts
Whirlwind_AK@reddit
Many (40) years of experience, my friend.
You’ll learn along the way.
I’m modest. Don’t brag. Kinda a joker.
But - ATP, A&P, MSEd, 5 heavy types.
hmasing@reddit
Psshhht. You're not even a whale biologist.
CeznaFL30@reddit
This is what’s great about Reddit. People with incredible bits of knowledge sharing knowledge for knowledge sake. Casually dropping pearls of wisdom. THAK YOU. Hope to have stories like you one day.
Various-Blood-3902@reddit
What types? And Whats MSEd?
limeburner@reddit
Masters degree of science in education?
Various-Blood-3902@reddit
Idk, why are you asking me?
CaptainSmallz@reddit
So only you get to ask questions, but not others.
Got it.
Don't be so entitled.
Various-Blood-3902@reddit
Username checks out
CaptainSmallz@reddit
Just stop u/Various-Blood-3902...you deleted the comment where you tried to double down, and then posted a link that's now deleted, and you keep deleting your comments. Just a little tip, Android notifications save the reply and it's really easy to see and save what people comment.
You really need to rethink how you use social media. Not a good look...
Various-Blood-3902@reddit
Well I know when I’m beat, random redditor.
Various-Blood-3902@reddit
I thought you were asking me if that’s what it is.
CaptainSmallz@reddit
I didn't ask you anything. Look at who are you replying to.
Maybe just don't comment until you can figure this whole thing out.
Various-Blood-3902@reddit
Oh im sorry Theres a question mark at the end of your sentence. In English grammar that means a question.
Maybe you dont type until you can figure this whole grammar thing out.
Old-Trouble-8830@reddit
Just studying and learning regulation NTSB reporting law is highly important to understand and know
kkingsbe@reddit
Some A&P selfstudy wouldn’t hurt I bet
blacksheepcannibal@reddit
Ultimately the call on what kind of maintenance that needs will eventually fall on an A&P/IA to make that call, so you'd need about 2 years schooling or 3 years OJT, a battery of 9 tests you'd have to pass covering over 2,200 pages of text, working as a mechanic for another 3 years, and then another test.
OracleofFl@reddit
You learn from experience and finding other, more experienced, pilots to talk to. You should start with your CFI.
THICC_ABRAM_RIKKA_MF@reddit
49 CFR part 830.2 and 830.5
Theytookmyarcher@reddit
I don't think there's any level of damage it would be NTSB reportable, the pilots already disembarked.
Hfyvr1@reddit
That’s not necessarily true. The minute you get any outboard leading edge damage you need to go look at the aft upper and lower rear spar, right where it attaches to the aircraft. A lot of times Cessna’s spars get damaged there. Telltale sign is when the upper wing skin over the flap alcove bends up.
Ok-Door-4991@reddit
Yeah man honest accident, just report it, apologize, I wouldn’t fly it until you have talked to someone to avoid any issues.
skyHawk3613@reddit
Not worried at all.
UrsaMaxima@reddit
Somewhat unrelated but is that KDTO the hangars look familiar?
Aggressive-Yam-2511@reddit (OP)
No but nearby
b3anr@reddit
ha i did the exact same thing on my ppl xc trip. shi happens man. i completely forgot about that incident until i saw this pic. i did feel like crap about the whole situation tho. felt so disappointed in myself
Aggressive-Yam-2511@reddit (OP)
That’s what i’m feeling even-though i know it’s a small thing😭
BandicootNo4431@reddit
I'm no expert, but I have pulled some dings out of my car. That looks like the perfect ding to either give a little squeeze to, or a little pull to, or both.
Don't do it yourself, but a skilled A&P might be able to pop it back out?
EagleE4@reddit
Not possible with an aluminum wing. Aluminum fatigues differently than steel and you can’t just pop a dent without causing serious problems in the metal
BandicootNo4431@reddit
It's been a few years since I took an aerospace metallurgy class, but IIRC, aluminum has a higher ductility and is thus more formable than steel.
Steel and iron are both stronger AND more brittle, and if you look at their stress strain diagrams you do see that. So you get infitie cycles in the elastic region and then very clear fracturing at a defined point.
Aluminum does crack differently than steel though, even within the elastic region so there may be some permanent damage here, I just don't know if this non-structural, non-stressed part will be a limiting factor.
It's why I said ask your A&P.
(I am an engineer but I am not YOUR engineer. This is not engineering advice. Please don't sue me, I don't have insurance. /s)
iamkolya@reddit
I agree with this as an aerospace engineer. The fatigue on that part is minimal due to aluminum’s properties. Practically we use aluminum in aviation because it is light and malleable unlike steel which is stiff and brittle, at the expense of pure loading strength. Additionally, the leading edge it’s not a very large load bearing component, so structurally I would argue it’s not compromised. Sure some more drag now on that wingtip, but this is a Cessna, not a U2.
OP if you read this, from an engineering perspective the plane will be fine, flight characteristics won’t change. From a CFI and pilot perspective, you made a mistake, reported it, and learned from it. You’ll be just fine, just be more diligent when moving planes around!
Aggressive-Yam-2511@reddit (OP)
Thanks for engineering insights. Will definitely do more clear left clear rights from now on as this will always kind of haunt me
imnotcreative4267@reddit
So, you seem to have an on paper understanding of how aluminum behaves. Have you ever worked with aluminum? -like physically, in your hands?
BandicootNo4431@reddit
Just a little bit, have done some aluminum welding and heat treatment prior to forming.
It's literally why I said I'm not an expert and to consult an A&P.
Not sure I could have made that any clearer.
FiberApproach2783@reddit
Should've done it in all caps man.
BandicootNo4431@reddit
Guess so.
x4457@reddit
With the FAA? None. With the business? You're almost certainly no longer a customer.
Normal hangar/ramp rash. Happens all the time.
Ask them and ask them.
Read your policy.
Read your policy, and Monday morning call your renter's insurance provider.
PrestigiousFee7072@reddit
I think you owning up to this dent is a sign of professionalism, cool!, you probably could've just parked it and let the next customer fly a plane of which you already had your doubts
Aggressive-Yam-2511@reddit (OP)
Yea I thought that for a second as someone was flying right after me. But again had a second thought that i just started renting from this place and if they know somehow, it wouldn’t be good and being honest in aviation is a good way to go. Had it been a rental car, i would most definitely do that. ( checked flight aware later, the next block flight still happened)
theArcticChiller@reddit
No longer a customer? Might happen, but it would say a lot about the reporting and safety culture of that place. Good way to stop people reporting anything at all. At my rental place you need to be honest about what happened, pay the deductible and it's all good.
slpater@reddit
Yeah if the plane is fairly easily fixable and OP is upfront and honest about it. That seems like the kind of person you want around your airplanes. Now if OP does this repeatedly then something may need to happen.
ContributionHour8356@reddit
It is easily repairable. I just did it recently!
x4457@reddit
One of your customers, the first time they use your business, damages property because of their careless handling of it.
Yeah, I’m firing them as a customer. Has nothing to do with safety culture or reporting or anything like that, it’s a business decision. You can both do the right thing, be encouraged for doing the right thing, and still no longer be welcome to do the right thing at that business.
Aggressive-Yam-2511@reddit (OP)
Would it be a good idea to call my renter’s insurance provider early Monday morning? Or i was thinking of maybe waiting till I hear from them and if they want me to pay small deductible(say anything less than $1000) then i was thinking of paying out of pocket and not involving insurance to not have anything on my record and possibility of increased premium next time?
Zen-Ism99@reddit
Report the damage you caused to the AC owner ASAP.
DanThePilot_Mann@reddit
This is almost certainly less than 1000 to repair.
Based on the picture, only a dent to the sheet metal, no evidence of damage to a rib, (obviously a mechanic needs to confirm this).
galloping_skeptic@reddit
Aviation adjuster here. Report the incident to the school first and then call your insurer on Monday. This is an extremely common thing and should basically be a non- event.
The flight school might gripe about lost revenue, but your policy will probably cover some of that too.
makgross@reddit
Deductibles are usually a LOT more than that. Especially if they require a certain amount of renters insurance coverage (Thats a big hint what the deductible is).
Sunsplitcloud@reddit
Most rental insurance policy requirements are designed to cover the deductible of the main policy. When a school requires $20,000 of rental insurance, they carry a $20,000 deductible on their policies. That’s how that works.
nhorvath@reddit
I don't think that's true. it also covers lost revenue.
Sunsplitcloud@reddit
The main policy usually covers that too. If your incident damage is $200,000 and you as a renter have $20,000 in coverage, the main policy likely has a $20,000 deductible. However if your incident is $5000 of damage and you have a $20,000 of coverage, some other claims relating to that incident may be added that make the payout more than the exact damage fixing.
Just read your policy. But that’s exactly how rental insurance works. Otherwise you’d be having to cover the full hull value of the plane you are flying.
FiberApproach2783@reddit
Deductible is $5k at my school. That's about how much their issuance covers I believe
Embarrassed_Dingo313@reddit
Holy shit, I’ve only rented from the flight school I trained at way back when, but that’s good to know lol
Number1atp@reddit
This advice is for all insurance whether it’s your car, home, or airplane renters policy. Insurance is there to pay. That’s why you have it. So don’t involve them until you have all the details and it’s time to pay. Rest easy knowing you have it but don’t call them first and start a claim. When you start a claim it goes on your claims record even if you determine that it’s not worth it in the end to use the insurnace you have still filed a claim and your premium adjusts accordingly. Hope this helps.
Festivefire@reddit
It is actually amazing how often reddit in general gets insurance related questions, and all the answers anybody can actually give them are "Ask your provider".
Why do people think strangers on the internet are going to be able to help them with their insurance questions when we don't have access to the documents and THEY do?
MikeOfAllPeople@reddit
I have to imagine most insurance are very similar and the posters are hoping there are some insights based on past experience.
Jacrifice@reddit
Realistic answer here
RadarKontactLost@reddit
Haha I had reported a similar issue on a rented 172. It’ll buff out
rwilkins74@reddit
Not much of a worry if it were me flying it. You’ll encounter a slightly higher drag penalty, but I would fly it. The drag penalty probably won’t be noticeable.
ContributionHour8356@reddit
I mean.. I’ve flown with worse.. Is it good? No. Is it bad? Also no.
JimTheJerseyGuy@reddit
It’ll buff right out. 😁
I’d have it checked before flying it but I’ve seen a C172 come back after a midair with a Canada goose with way worse damage to the leading edge. The student flying it said it handled normally.
Mike93747743@reddit
That’ll buff right out.
Robinsmjr@reddit
Always wondered if you can have an avation specialist advise an automotive paint-less dent repairman to pull and hammer it out then confirm if you were in a pinch and wanted to fly back home
FisterR0b0t0@reddit
Call a mobile paintless dent repair guy
No_Committee_9274@reddit
Honestly dude, if you don’t say anything it will probably not get noticed. Worked in a hanger that was split with a flight school we serviced
Those planes came in so savaged it was hard to even understand all the damage and incidents. If you don’t say anything it will just go until the next 100 hour and then it still won’t get fixed. Youll probably be looking at that dent 3 years from now when you go to rent a plane from that place thinking “whoops”
Zen-Ism99@reddit
Report it. Let them check and repair as required. Be prepared for some out of pocket expenses.
tms2x2@reddit
That looks like 2 or 3 hours of labor to fix. Remove wing tip. Push out dent with formed block of wood. Inspect area for cracking. Reinstall wing tip.
Creative-Grocery2581@reddit
I wouldn’t fly that
Imlooloo@reddit
Throw some blood on the spot and say you had a bird strike.
Remarkable_North_999@reddit
This is the way.
RDRNR3@reddit
It’s on the leading edge
Remarkable_North_999@reddit
Ahhh it is, so bird strike.
Skipper07B@reddit
Or, you know, honesty
PrestigiousFee7072@reddit
Bird was over taking from the right, typical 😞
3greenandnored@reddit
Not very.... those C172 wings often fly with much more damage!
pattj91@reddit
If someone damages a plane at my school/club and report it, we just file on their insurance and move on. If it’s a serious accident they have to complete a remedial training program before we clear them to fly again. As long as you’re honest and report it, it’s usually not a big deal.
deltamoney@reddit
Just pop it out with a suction cup. 😂
PrestigiousFee7072@reddit
Golf bals have'dents' so they fly further, so maybe this dent isn't so bad😜
Correct-Secretary-63@reddit
It’l buff out!
TheRealGmalenko@reddit
Send it. My cessna has a similar dent in thr same place. It works just fine
BravoCharlieZulu@reddit
I'm assuming you got the dent putting the plane back in the hangar. How did you get a dent on the leading edge? I could understand scraping the wing tip or the trailing edge of the ailerons, but not sure how you dented the front of the wing backing the aircraft in the hangar...
Zeek204@reddit
I used to work at a flight school as an apprentice AME early in my career. This would happen about every 2-3 months. The student/renter would pay their deductible and we would fix it and that was that. No big deal
320sim@reddit
I have an A&P friend who was working on I think a Challenger. He was in the cramped avionics compartment in the tail and didn't want to get out while they pushed the plane back into the hangar after a test. They didn't chock the wheels before disconnecting the tow bar. The plane rolled back until a wing stuck a pillar, sending the plane pivoting around the pillar until the tail smashed into the back of the hangar (all with my friend stuck in the tail). Insane amount of damage but everyone involved came out alright.
Moral of the story is this happens more than you think and people have done far worse. I've heard so many stories about this. I'm sure you learned a lot and this isn't a regulatory issue so nothing will go on your record. It'll all turn out okay
PrestigiousFee7072@reddit
And I always tell people worrying abouthigh speed tape that they should come on a walk around vwith me and see how many dents or paints catches, popped screws and alike are on an airliner, they are tools, probably got some other dents on your rental, because not everybody is so gentle with those
PrestigiousFee7072@reddit
That's it!
whoaitsjello@reddit
It’s not that big of a deal.
RecentAmbition3081@reddit
Nope
runnymountain@reddit
My most irrational fear... 🫣
bdc41@reddit
It is but a scratch.
Slow_Friendship_6738@reddit
What kind of stress can a hit like this place on the wing’s root? Would this be inspected or just ignored by maintenance?
DCMadSurfer@reddit
In terms of mosquitos, it is pretty bad! Wax Wash All and you are good to go.
Hyperious3@reddit
just pop that bitch out with the hot glue trick
TheVoidIsDark@reddit
Unrelated, but do that place ever clean the wings? So many dead insects...
Blorglue@reddit
Eh. I’d make sure its documented and AMEs know about it. Personally i’d still fly it
AK_Dude69@reddit
They can pop it and bondo it. Doubt they even have to drill
SkippytheBanana@reddit
Don’t sweat too much over it. Shit happens, just try and be a bit more diligent in the future. Which I know you will be now because shit happened to you.
I completely ripped off a nav light doing the same thing and the most I got was a bitching out by the lead mechanic. A six pack and some assistance repairing my own mistake helped to mend the fence.
This is not reportable to anyone and falls way under the NTSB substantial damage definition.
New-IncognitoWindow@reddit
Nothing money won’t fix.
armovetz@reddit
that's why we usually dont suck on a stall horn, it's very easy to overdo it..
aftcg@reddit
Good grief just squeeze the dammed thing. It'll just pop out. Sauce: long time line boy
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
So i just started renting from this place and this was my second flight from here. Flight went smooth. Was trying to align the airplane with the hanger but there was another plane in front of the next hanger and i was too focused on that plane and trying to align that i struck my left wing on the hanger wall. This is the first incident in my 260 hour journey and i was completely disappointed on how i disregarded taking a look at the wing. So now how much trouble am i in? How bad does the damage look like? Will my rental insurance cover it or school’s insurance? Do i pay anything out of pocket? They told me they will get back to me in Monday? Any suggestions?
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