Dodge CEO Still ‘Absolutely’ Thinks There’s Opportunity for a Sub-$30k Sports Car
Posted by silvergoldtopic@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 278 comments
Photo used is in the article is a 2002 concept car.
The Dodge Razor concept was introduced at the 2002 North American International Auto Show. Developed in partnership with Razor Scooters, this 2002 concept car featured a turbocharged 2.4L engine, rear-wheel drive, and a $14,500 target price, aiming to offer an affordable, lightweight sports coupe experience, though it never reached production.
Key Details of the 2002 Dodge Razor Concept:
Engine: 250-horsepower turbocharged and intercooled 2.4L inline-4.
Transmission: 6-speed manual.
Performance: \~6 seconds to 60 mph; top speed 140 mph.
Design: Rear-wheel drive (RWD) with a minimalist, no-frills interior.
Included Accessory: Two orange Razor scooters were stored in the rear in place of a spare tire.
2blivion@reddit
Okay but hear me out, anything a manufacturer puts out will be marked up out the a$$ by dealerships.
They could make a $15k car that looks badass runs quick and dealers will make it $30k.
It happened with the new Nissan Z
We need to get lawmakers on board with pulling back these dealer markups.
zarif2003@reddit
And it will get ripped apart by the community for being too slow, I hope they still do it though.
ShadowNick@reddit
"Listen if the 0-60 isnt sub 4 seconds I don't wanna hear about it"
SophistXIII@reddit
can you even merge safely on the highway in something with a 0-60 greater than 3.5 seconds?
Bonkzzilla@reddit
I have seriously seen BRZ drivers saying they can't merge on the highway because they're "so slow", and I'm like, child, you have clearly never driven a Chevette...
Welikeme23@reddit
My car has less than 100HP and I can merge just fine....people are ridiculous.
mist_kaefer@reddit
My car takes double that time to 60, so I just stay on the side roads and leave the highway to the big dogs with their v8 motors.
USS-Hellcat@reddit
Even my Hellcat is no match for Nissan Altima drivers.
benmarvin@reddit
Those rental Altimas are even faster somehow.
Training-Expert5598@reddit
The fastest car is always the one you don't have to pay for every month.
Lauzz91@reddit
less unsprung weight using the space-sizer spare, allows those front wheels to sping up faster, accelerating quicker. it's pure low credit score engineering
Schittt@reddit
You need at least 10 cylinders to keep up with traffic so I just go up and down my driveway so I don't get in anyone's way
Any_Sale2030@reddit
Germans manage to do that every day on the autobahn with cars under 2 liters. Better drivers there than the US for sure.
Pactae_1129@reddit
If the videos of them all neatly moving over for an ambulance are true and normal, then yeah, definitely
MisterDoctor___@reddit
With the amount of people I’ve seen in fast cars merging on the highway barely going 40, I don’t even think you need a car that can hit 60 in most places.
You actually need a car that can hit 60 in less than 3.5 seconds to safely pass those guys without someone going 80+ hitting you.
R_V_Z@reddit
The thing is, a car that has a quick 0-60 due to good launch control is not indicative on how well it does in the on-ramp situation.
SchnitzelTruck@reddit
What kind of piece of shit 90s turbo lag car has a good 0-60 and is incapable of merging on an on ramp?
MisterDoctor___@reddit
Sure, but a car that can hit 60 in under 4 seconds is very likely to also accelerate faster across the board than a car that hits it in 6-7 seconds.
Hoooooooar@reddit
That is correct. Where i live which has experienced massive growth my fast car has saved my life more then once when some fucking dumpster creature merges onto the highway going 25mph ON two lane 81 with truckers going 100mph+.
It blows my fucking mind they'll merge on at 25mph then slam on the pedal to also get up to 100mph but not before risking my life and everyone elses behind them.
TheKingOfBreadstix@reddit
Using mph and cm in the same post makes my head spin.
iHaveLotsofCats94@reddit
That's the biggest struggle in my truck. It has 200hp and weighs like 5000lbs. Slow people on an on ramp are a legit concern for me, but of course they wouldn't care anyway
tiagojpg@reddit
I just don’t even bother, with my 12s 0-60 time.
AtOurGates@reddit
Honestly achievable if it’s electric, and made in China.
The MG4 XPower/Mulan Triumph is 3.7s and goes for about $27k in China.
The BYD Seal AWD Performance is also 3.7s and around $33k in China.
And the Zeekr 007 Performance AWD is 2.8s and goes for about $31k.
The Seal and Zeeker are much more luxury sedans with high end features that also go fast, so no doubt if they wanted to do a stripped down lower cost version with the same performance, they could.
corn_sugar_isotope@reddit
shouted from a clapped out Miata
boner79@reddit
“You owe me a 10 second car.”
BWFTW@reddit
But I also don't care about hypercars because performance isn't everything.
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
You also don't seem to care about horrendous maintenance costs! I respect it.
ShadowNick@reddit
Yeah I really could give two fucks about the 0 to 60 time as long as it's fun car to drive or fits my needs like my 08 Silverado or my shit box 15 Terrain.
idksomuch@reddit
As someone who's never owned a car that has a 0-60 time under 7 seconds, except for an FK8 that had hidden crash damage that I returned for a week, that Razor concept sounds super duper quick to me^e^e^e
luke10050@reddit
Current weekend car is a 20 year old dual cab with a 5 speed and a 3l diesel making something like 120hp at 3600rpm.
fmjintervention@reddit
I drove an old Hiace 4x4 with a 3L and 4 speed slushbox in it and man that thing was slow. Genuinely foot to the floor trying to get onto freeways. Over 20 seconds 0-100kph for sure.
I'm very grateful for the turbocharger on my 3L-powered ute, it completely wakes it up.
Shallow_wanderer@reddit
I swear to fuck the internet and clout/hypebeast culture have ruined the car hobby for so many people
Like idk I sometimes wish there was a gatekept car event or online forum somewhere for those of us who have actual functioning brains and good taste
MaybeNext-Monday@reddit
I never got that tbh because it’s just less time you can use the loud pedal without getting yourself in trouble.
MisterDoctor___@reddit
It’s easy to get. Loud pedal isn’t that fun when all it does is make noise when you hit it.
MaybeNext-Monday@reddit
I think there’s pretty solidly a middleground between those things lmfao
MisterDoctor___@reddit
Obviously.
It’s all preference. The people buying or building high horsepower cars are likely not gonna be satisfied with the acceleration of a GR86 or Miata. You said you didn’t get it. There’s your reason.
lee1026@reddit
4 seconds is borderline economy car range, with how cheap used model 3s are.
r34p3rex@reddit
Yea but the m340i is way faster
Makeitquick666@reddit
what's the point of a fast car if the speed limit is slow anyway? And you'd be left behind by a Tesla SUV at the lights while we're at it?
might as well spend that money on making things light and fun to drive at slow speeds
MisterDoctor___@reddit
Empty highways and backroads exist and are common. I can regularly wring out my Supra even here in crowded SoCal.
Makeitquick666@reddit
good for you, ig, here where I live those are not common at all, and wven if there are a few patches of emptiness, speed cameras and undercover police are everywhere
CarsAreRad@reddit
You think so? Even it being under 30k I think that shit would be a bargain in todays car world. The problem is they also need to make an Auto to hit the mass market.
pridetwo@reddit
Yeah considering the miata and gr86/brz always get criticized for being slow and enthusiasts turn their nose up at the ecoboost mustang despite it being an incredible deal for sub 5 second 0-60.
CarsAreRad@reddit
Yea but to be fair anyone who knows cars and drives them know that the 86 and the miat are fun ass cars to drive. The problem is people are so obsessed with speed they forgot how to enjoy cars.
People too stuck in heritage man, if any JDM car did that type of power on a 4banger like the eco boost mustang at that price point the community would be all over it. Crazy how a badge makes the engineering behind it worthless to a lot of people.
Akutalji@reddit
The Elantra N in a nutshell.
CookInKona@reddit
the elantra isn't just because of the badge, it's ugly and generic, like a random background car in gta, made by a brand known for subpar at best vehicles. it also doesn't stand out compared to any of the other trim levels besides a tacky as fuck red stripe that doesn't look good on any of the body colors offered on it.
on top of all that it's still a boring front wheel drive car that, because of the added power, will handle worse and torque steer compared to lower power trim levels
Waste-Limit1644@reddit
Ok so explain the type r and si?
CookInKona@reddit
At least Honda makes reliable and engaging to drive vehicles, Hyundai, not so much
CarsAreRad@reddit
Probably thinks the type r is trash because it’s FWD also lmao.
half_regard@reddit
lmao at the downvotes
xXxDickBonerz69xXx@reddit
I can't really explain it but the Ecoboost Mustang just didn't feel right. I test drove it. I wanted to like it. It was fucking perfect on paper, in my price range, powerfulish, practicalish, efficientish, looks great, decent quality. But I was just let down. It just felt cumbersome and big. I know it's not. But it felt slower than other cars I tested that were much slower. Shit, I went with a Miata which is way way slower. But it feels faster. It feels more fun. It feels right.
I know it's so fuckin stupid, but I think if it was in a smaller, slightly lighter platform and called the Probe I'd have liked it more. It just didn't feel right.
Vhozite@reddit
In my experience weight, wheelbase, sound insulation, ride height/seat position all play a role in the sensation of speed, and the Miata is better in probably all those categories.
velociraptorfarmer@reddit
The Ecostang is about half a class size too big for the engine. That and the noises just don't fit the car.
Shallow_wanderer@reddit
James May was right all those years ago on Top Gear when he said that he wishes the Allied Powers would've bombed the Nurburgring during WW2 instead of all the churches and historical buildings, that way we'd all have comfortable cars and pretty buildings to look at
James May forever the best of all 3 of them idc what anyone says
anticipat3@reddit
Captain Slow was always the brains of the operation, he makes the other two look like a Hamster and an Ape.
Oo__II__oO@reddit
Keyboard comparos, usually because actually driving them is locked behind a dealership model that is excruciatingly painful and tedious process that should only take minutes, but can eat up a good hour as they scan your license and request collateral. Never mind the fact that to really drive the car like they are intended is a no-go on test drives, as the salesperson riding along will jibber-jabber in your ear about the wonderful Sirius radio and rich Corinthian leather as he guides you on the pre-set route through suburban traffic.
p_rex@reddit
Show up with a sterling credit score and a respectable paid-off trade and they let the leash out a lot.
CHBCKyle@reddit
to be fair, you’re comparing two very different classes of cars. i traded my s550 gt for a miata because even with a v8 the heavy weight and only ok handling made the car less fun in comparison. that issue would be even more pronounced on the eco boost
mist_kaefer@reddit
Driving a slow car fast is more engaging than driving a fast car slow. Driving a fast car fast leads to tickets or loss of control.
lee1026@reddit
That might be true, but then that flys against the need to buy any new car. Plenty of slow cars on the used car lots for cheaper.
pridetwo@reddit
Most people who talk cars in the car community dont know cars and complain about the 86 and miata being slow. Like this guy here, which is the whole premise of this comment thread.
RFK_Cum_Regimen@reddit
Just the marketing slop nameplate "Ecoboost" is so cringe, I can't.
Waste-Limit1644@reddit
I see only praise for the Miata and mostly praise for the 86/brz. The ecoboost mustangs are in a weird spot where they are under a historically muscle car name and muscle cars have always been synonymous with big loud v8s.
I think there is value in a sports car that doesn’t totally risk speeding tickets with any throttle input. People aren’t buying these lower hp sports cars for straight line speed and they have enough pickup anyway. If I hadn’t just bought an 80s sports car, I’d be right in the market for a sub 30k sports car.
Cessnaporsche01@reddit
All 3 of those sell well though - and they're actually great sports cars. As we know from every other piece of evidence, online automotive discourse <> market trends.
I, for one, welcome additional light sports cars no matter who they come from!
DickKravens@reddit
Yeah but the Miata and brz are slow
xXxDickBonerz69xXx@reddit
I don't know why you're being downvoted.
My Miata is slow as shit. Pulling away from a light I will be revving it up to 5k, so not all out but getting on it, and there'll be a hybrid Rav4 or Ecoboost Escape pulling ahead of me lol. Which is fine! The point of the car is you get to drive it hard everywhere all the time. Half the fun of roadsters is you can hammer on them all over the place without killing yourself or getting arrested. They're perfect if you like cars and not just going fast.
DriftingBadly@reddit
The miata is about a second faster to get to 60 than the escape and 2 seconds faster than the rav4 hybrid. It’s not slow you just drive like a granny.
fastbeemer@reddit
The issue with the Ecoboost is its a ripoff of the actual sport/muscle car. Nobody would care if Ford released a different Ecoboost sports car, but the Evo Mustang is like copying your neighbors work in school.
xXxDickBonerz69xXx@reddit
I know it's stupid and irrational, but if Ford kept the motor, made the wheelbase a bit shorter, made it lighter , slightly cheaper, and called it the Probe I'd like it so much more.
Mazda did it with the RX-8 and NC Miata.
SophistXIII@reddit
I mean, the original Mustang came with a v6 and was built on the ethos that it was a budget performance car - which is really what the ecoboost Mustang represents today.
Everyone gets hung up on the fact that a Mustang should have a v8, and that's somewhat fair.
But suggesting a muscle car requires a v8 to be authentic is bullshit.
Consistent-Throat130@reddit
I mean if we're gonna talk about muscle cars and authentic...
Large displacement v8 - done.
Performance by virtue exclusively of massive low end torque - complete miss.
The N/A v8 makes most of it's power when it's really spinning. That torque curve isn't really "muscle car".
I'd even argue a turbo 6 (inline or v) would do a better job of replicating that grunt
Oo__II__oO@reddit
It's not even a muscle car! Bring back "Pony car" to the vernacular.
CarsAreRad@reddit
I’ll always say this I don’t give a shit about the powertrain in a car a 4 banger a v6 or inline 6 or a v8 it doesn’t matter as long as it’s badass to drive. That’s literally my only prerequisite for cars.
pridetwo@reddit
How is it copying the neighbors work, its their own homework they copied and made more affordable.
Astramael@reddit
Absolutely. We’ve just seen it happen. People complained constantly that nobody was giving them just the spicy powertrain and saving money on the interior. Then that happened and those same people could not stop talking about how bad they think the interior is.
There is absolutely no point in building cars for enthusiasts, they don’t actually buy what they say they want. They need to make a product that sells into a market that actually buys new cars.
tujuggernaut@reddit
Except the Miata is still sold today.
Astramael@reddit
It survive due to non-enthusiast sales. That’s why it’s always been offered as an automatic and never been offered as a coupe.
nickybuddy@reddit
The irony of the fiat coupe that was based majority off the miata.
Sturmgeshootz@reddit
How does the Miata manage to generally avoid that criticism, while the GR86 and now the new Prelude are ripped continually for it?
Big44Wet@reddit
They’ll rip it apart because it’s a Stellantis product which automatically makes it garbage /s
mags87@reddit
This but not sarcastically
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
The RAM has less issues than either current Toyota pickup.
ButtfuckerTim@reddit
Toyota shitting the bed a few times a century doesn’t make the RAM good.
mags87@reddit
Now do the Pacifica and the Sienna
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
Don’t need to. I know Stellantis products can be unreliable. I’m just saying they can also be sturdy when they actually try.
ButtfuckerTim@reddit
To be fair,
Stellantis’ track record strongly suggests high odds that they will find one or more ways to make it garbage.
Main_Hornet8676@reddit
car enthusiasts when an entry-level sports car has entry-level performance
cubs223425@reddit
That criticism usually comes from selling an entry-level product for well over entry-level pricing. Were Dodge to really come in under $30K with this, the crying would be minimal.
If it's priced like a Nissan Z ($40K+), it will deservedly be flamed.
cubs223425@reddit
If they made it under $30K, which they certainly won't, the people complaining about slowness will not be relevant. It'll be an entry-level product for people who can't afford much of anything else faster. The only concern would be high supply of last-gen muscle cars that could be a better value.
With how pricey most sports cars are now, I think this would find a market pretty easily. People might call it slow, but if it's something gearheads can play with, they'll be happy as well.
peen_was@reddit
And a Chrysler product
DredgenCyka@reddit
"Its too slow, it doesnt produce more than 400 horses. This is an F tier."
My brother in christ this thing is gonna get scalped harder than Miata hardtops
cattywampus42@reddit
Yea Dodge is not a company that has a fan base that will accept what is has to be. Small, light, likely a 4 cylinder. Has to be small to make the price target. I hope they make it to, but if it were probably any other brand it would do better
hyoo82@reddit
*s2ks and Miatas enter the chat.
kilroy-was-here-2543@reddit
You know those automotive journalists are about to have a blast calling the economy sports car too slow and cheap feeling
Vhozite@reddit
If this were any other brand we were discussing I’d agree with you. But Dodge of the last decade seems incapable of making a fun car with anything less than 8 cylinders or 4400lbs of bulk so yeah I’d unironically expect their cheap sports car to be fast.
Global_Chair9652@reddit
Just buy the Delorean name and make it so. Light weight electric Miata based on the fiat 500. You’re welcome
pridetwo@reddit
Fiat already did that but internal combustion with the 124. It was a sales flop.
nonaveris@reddit
Aluminum Yugo?
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
The last 124 was basically rebadged ND Miata but with Fiat own engine.
RiftHunter4@reddit
Dodge would make a Cheap Speed option. Fighting the Miata and GR86 on handling is a lost cause.
makeyousaywhut@reddit
Bruh, dodge wants to make a mini cooper. Think about how people talk about those most of the time……
royalblue420@reddit
The razor would've been great. The modding community for the srt-4 was huge, and it was the same motor. Mopar even had a big turbo kit for, the stage 3. The engine could take 350whp forever without reliability concerns. Man I wish they'd build the razor. The engines were cheap, and built motors easily held 500whp. It was also a good-sounding engine for a 4 cylinder, though a matter of taste, I know.
As long as they found an appropriate transmission, and you could get tires wider than 225s under the rear fenders, I would love to see this car. I would have gotten one.
Just make itwithout the altezzas.
kirfkin@reddit
I for one would never drive a slow car.
My Fiesta ST still makes me smile almost 9 years later.
If this prospective sub-$30K car similarly speaks to me, I wouldn't be afraid to buy one. Of course I might prefer something other than FCA.
The other issue is that I don't have enough space.
mustangfan12@reddit
It has a similar 0-60 time as the Miata and also since its turbo hopefully the aftermarket will find ways to boost power
EC_CO@reddit
Not if they drop the Hurricane i6 in it
rudbri93@reddit
hurricane 6 powered 1/2 scale viper
Brazilian_in_YYZ@reddit
This could be a very nice combination!!
whatthewhat_007@reddit
It will get ripped apart because it will probably be a POS
Snoo93079@reddit
Who will then complain there are no affordable sports cars
N0Tbanned@reddit
It won’t get ripped apart for being too slow, it’ll get ripped apart for being a fucking dodge
r34p3rex@reddit
It's not a B58, pass
Zhombe@reddit
Well we all know Dodge’s for sure stop too slow. It’s called Dodge for a reason.
Kaylee-X@reddit
I think it would be welcome as long as it's at least comparable to the current Miata and Gr86 on terms of raw speed. Although, knowing Dodge, I imagine it will fail spectacularly In other ways.
TimeBandits4kUHD@reddit
Ask mini, Miata, and brz drivers if a 6 second 0-60 is fast enough for a daily.
It is, and it feels a hell of a lot faster when you’re that low.
And way more fun too.
Centillionare@reddit
Answer is always a… Dodge Miata??
zuneman@reddit
Well, there was the Fiat 124 that no-one bought
jse000@reddit
Because the Fiat 124 was a Miata with a worse engine
Specialist-Size9368@reddit
Eh, had an abarth and an nc club spec before that.
Fiat with the sport exhaust sounded wayyyyy better. It was easier to get power. It had the nc trans which didn't break like the nd trans did for years.
Its knock was the hill start assist randomly kicking in on flat ground and stalling the engine. Oh, and dealing with fiat dealerships. Few and far between and honestly not great.
pridetwo@reddit
Thank you! People act like automakers haven't tried to make a miata competitor but the reality is it's been tried many times and almost all of them flopped hard
Bamres@reddit
Tbf, while it dod look good, iy was a reskinned miata which most people thought looked better
aka_mank@reddit
It looked… what? No.
Bamres@reddit
I think my phrasing is weird but the miata looks better is what I mean
Daneth@reddit
I actually kind of like the looks of the 124 better. Not sure why. But if I had to pick one or the other, it would be the Miata without hesitation because I'm not sure about the Fiat powertrain.
Vhozite@reddit
I vastly prefer the look of the 124. It’s the only 2 seater I look at listings for even tho at this point in my life a 2 seater is definitely a no go lol
cheeseshcripes@reddit
I drove them back to back, the Miata drove better too, the FIAT was just super buzzy and slow feeling, crazy what a difference an engine will make.
Shallow_wanderer@reddit
Because automakers aren't trying because enthusiasts aren't buying the cars because automakers aren't trying because enthusiasts aren't buying cars and oh look everything is a turbo-4cyl crossover blob yay
Oo__II__oO@reddit
And before that the Crossfire, which was good.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
Or the MG MGF, Fiat Barchetta and Ford Capri, which were the original MX-5 competitors
DickKravens@reddit
Even as a Chrysler fan, the crossfire isn’t even top 5 for me
Eggith@reddit
Crossfire wasn't really a Miata competitor. It was more for the Z4 market.
Imadethosehitmanguns@reddit
Baby Viper
FreshestCremeFraiche@reddit
Call it a Fang and give it a turbo I-5
cubs223425@reddit
I like the idea, but not the name. "Dodge Fang" doesn't sound right.
Larcye@reddit
Nah just give it the Vipers engine. If some nutjob can get a Ducatti Pengale V4 engine to work with a Honda Grom's chasis, then I'm sure Dodge can figure out how to stick a V10 into a Miata sized chasis.
BlackZeppelin@reddit
Instead of a passenger seat, you’ve got the last 4 cylinders of the engine
OscillatingFan6500@reddit
“People like a real fire in their homes…I got one in my car”
DukeboxHiro@reddit
BMW once fit a V12 into the Z3, it can be done.
peanutbuttahcups@reddit
Nah, you guys don't get it. We need an actual shitbox, like the Neon. $14.5k is about $26.5k in 2026. Only way to do that is with a crap interior, manual everything (seats, windows, transmission) dial gauges, FM/AM radio w/ Bluetooth, rearview w/ a screen for the backup camera, enough safety to satisfy regulations, and that's it.
jokerzwild00@reddit
They have a 200+ hp NA engine (tigershark) and also a couple of turbo 1.somethings with around that much HP that they use in some Jeeps. Not much for a fat ass Jeep using that 10 speed transmission, but could be enough for a small, light manual transmission coupe.
breakbread@reddit
My buddy had a Neon R/T. This thing had power windows in the front and manual in the back.
Goku420overlord@reddit
Agreed
theknyte@reddit
That was the Copperhead concept. A baby Viper at a much lower price.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Copperhead
They also teased a Miata competitor back in 2007 with the Dodge Demon Concept.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Demon_(concept_car)
ShadowNick@reddit
Dodge Neon always.
zFlox@reddit
Yup, my 2005 SRT-4 I always regret selling now... I see them every now and then and always point them out to my wife lol and say I used to own one!
PassPanda@reddit
Saw this one the other day. Wife asked why I took a picture of it
zFlox@reddit
Hell yea! That one looks clean too. Rolled bumper and all! They sound so good too.
TimeBandits4kUHD@reddit
If you can Dodge a Miata, you can a Dodge a wrench.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
0-60 is pointless anyway when some half ton truck models can have supercar acceleration.
brianbot5000@reddit
Exactly. Electric vehicles have sort of rendered 0-60 pointless. It’s more about the driving experience. Or at least it should be. Not that acceleration isn’t desirable, it is, but it’s sort of been devalued a bit IMO.
iroll20s@reddit
Especially off a light. You have to go into launch mode, pinging off the redline like an asshole, to have a chance vs a 4wd EV that has instant torque at 0 rpm.
brianbot5000@reddit
But I think that’s the point - electric cars have made the whole thing rather boring. Fast, but boring.
iroll20s@reddit
I wasn't disagreeing. I was raising the point that magazine times assume a prepared surface and the ability to use all the launch modes, etc. Just stomping it on a surface street ICE is going to suffer a ton as it needs to get into the power band first and then it will struggle with traction where an EV can vary each wheel instantly. EVs are much better 0-60 in day to day life than magazine times would indicate. I don't know it makes it boring, but it certainly has commodified speed. It at the point that I think chasing HP is a fools game past something like 500-600 hp. You'll still get beat off the line and you can never use much more without being in instant felony territory. I look for other qualities now.
brianbot5000@reddit
Ahhh - got it. And I meant “boring” as in - push petal, go fast. No theatrics.
Jimbenas@reddit
Launching a gas car is infinitely more fun. The EV kinda just moves off without much drama.
isaac99999999@reddit
They have rendered 0-60 as a competition pointless, but a car pulling an 8 second 0-60 is still pretty damn boring.
SqueezyCheez85@reddit
My NA Miata goes 0 to 60 in like 12 seconds, and it feels like I'm racing around everywhere.
Glittering_Welder380@reddit
Until that mini hits 100k miles and falls apart.
Loved mine until the clutch went ($3.3k because it’s a dual Mass flywheel) blew and exhaust valve ($3.5k rebuild) and some other misc repairs that ended up being around $3kish.
In the course of 10k miles (from 100-110k) the thing fell apart
jokerzwild00@reddit
You could make a very long list of head scratching decisions that the Mini designers made. And I swear it's like when one thing breaks, you know that you'll be dealing with 3 more things going out in quick succession. So when tearing it apart you might as well look at whatever else is gonna be accessible during the repair and just go ahead and replace that too. So much damn plastic. Thankfully the aftermarket has come out with metal replacement parts. Their engines do not deal well with heat, at all.
Lost_Most_9732@reddit
I drive a fast car to get around idiots on their phones. These modern hybrid daily drivers can do 0-60 in 6s or less. If I was in one of those cars, they would be able to just speed up and deny me while they continue to text and watch tiktok. Wouldn't work for me.
IguassuIronman@reddit
My brother's FR-S is the strangest feeling car. Very similar numerical acceleration to my Golf but subjectively it feels much, much slower
I guess it's not that crazy given the turbo lag, but it's still a bummer it never got the FA20DIT
TurkeyPhat@reddit
0-60 in 5-6seconds is all you need to have fun in a daily. Probably anything under 7 really. Any slower and IMO it's a bit unsafe with how quick traffic is now, and any faster it starts to just be wasted in said traffic.
Word_Underscore@reddit
My BRZ reminds me of my 2005 RSX Type-S (but RWD, obv) which was a very, very fun car. I love driving it. 6.x whatever is fine to 60. The only time I wish I had more power is when I'm probably +20-30 over the speed limit so it's whatever really
zalcecan@reddit
Even if it was at 30 flat and most models at 35k it would be good in this market.
silvergoldtopic@reddit (OP)
💯 agree. The brz lost the base trim and now starts at $37k while a Miata w/ the retractable roof is $42k! Might as well get a new mustang gt base at that point for $45k...
Ut_Prosim@reddit
Can you actually get a GT for $45k? I thought they were all super marked up.
uberdosage@reddit
Yea all the mustangs are pretty heavily discounted. I got my dark horse for 11k under sticker
Ut_Prosim@reddit
Awesome. How is the Dark Horse?
A few years ago I was looking and even 10 year old 5.0s were like 25-30k. I guess I haven't looked since.
uberdosage@reddit
Its great! Just got it yesterday! Very comfortable as a daily yet also very fun and practical. Less sports car feeling then my c7, but no regrets.
Selling the c7 due to theft issues around these cars..... already been 2 attempts in the past 6 months
iroll20s@reddit
A ford? Mustangs are normally pretty discounted around me. Maybe its a new thing.
silvergoldtopic@reddit (OP)
Here's one $44,755
automation mustang gt link
xXxDickBonerz69xXx@reddit
Well, to be fair, the RF is dumb. It's a power targa and has horrible wind noise. The soft top is the superior option in every way except for how it looks parked.
cromagnum84@reddit
Base Miata is 32 with soft tip
Unsocialsocialist@reddit
I’m pushing 50 and have a soft tip myself.
zalcecan@reddit
Youre supposed to get the soft top miata anyways so they always are sub 35k cars for me.
PitchNorth3167@reddit
The 2026 Mazda Miata starts at under $31,000. I have a 2004 Miata and it goes really fast and gets to 60 mph In seconds.
_Thorshammer_@reddit
Design a small, modular platform with longitudinal RWD / AWD baked in from the start.
Focus on simplicity, reliability, and light weight.
Accept the NVH penalties for doing so.
Use the new 2.0 for base models and the 1.6 turbo for sporty and top trim models.
Use it to underpin 4 vehicles: a sporty coupe / cabrio, a basic transport sedan, a slightly lifted CUV, and a bare bones delivery vehicle.
Offer a $500 discount on the sedan and delivery to anybody who can prove $500 in ride share / gig delivery economy in the last 6 months.
Offer $1000 discount on the coupe / cabrio to anyone who trades in a month sale car or euro coupe.
Offer a $1000 discount on the CUV to anyone who trades in a RAV or CRV.
Advertising should focus on low cost - both in purchase price and total cost of ownership - and ease of maintenance and repair.
Accept the CAFE hit and put out a ridiculously overpowered AWD version of the coupe and call it either the Road Runner, SRT-4, or R/T, whichever the marketing wonks think resonates best with the kids.
zachm26@reddit
Agree with all of this, but the OP version should be called the GLHS
_Thorshammer_@reddit
Yeah, but I think the Omni / Horizon names are a net negative.
Given my druthers I’d badge these as Plymouths to emphasize the “budget friendly” theme and call the 2 door Barracuda or Fury, the four door is the Valiant or Neon, the CUV is the Caravelle or Cambridge, and the delivery is the Reliant or Voyager.
MotorcycleCar@reddit
I think those names are too outdated for marketing these days.
_Thorshammer_@reddit
Maybe.
Or maybe the market is tired of meaningless alphanumerics and wants something that references a better time.
MotorcycleCar@reddit
Doubt it.
smilysmilysmooch@reddit
Call them Chrysler's for all it matters. Not like they make anything but minivans.
Coupe/Cabrio: 6
CUV: 70
Sedan: 300
Delivery: 300D
I_AM_AN_ASSHOLE_AMA@reddit
I mean, if they use the motor from the SRT4 it'll crush a lot of shit out there.
vhalember@reddit
They'll use the 4-cylinder Hurricane engine being released this year. 324 HP on regular gas.
peanutbuttahcups@reddit
That's crazy power from a stock I4. Love to see it.
peanutbuttahcups@reddit
I think the niche of "shitbox car that can be better through the aftermarket" is the way to go. Give it good bones, an engine that can take boost, and shitty interior, and it'll be popular with the tuner crowd while being a cheap fun commuter car for everyone else.
sheep_duck@reddit
It sounds so easy on paper and I’d buy one in a heartbeat but for some reason no one wants to do it anymore lol
peanutbuttahcups@reddit
I think it's the stigma of offering a car that isn't loaded with features and being criticized for it in publications and online. But maybe if the price is truly mid-$20k, people would view it as a great deal. But yeah, easy on paper and I wonder if it's even possible.
royalblue420@reddit
It would've been incredible. Imagine 350whp all day reliably I a car like that. 350 was nothing for those engines.
SweetWaterSurprise@reddit
Perhaps a Neon comeback with a Hybrid configuration.
bikewrench11@reddit
That was the engine the prototype had.
AdministrativeBox449@reddit
I mean if Dodge make it after market friendly...
It could actually become a good tuner/project car.
tekniklee@reddit
Cars and coffee this morning (big one) and there was a HUGE number of N-line Hyundai there - many models. It’s what the sub 30 y/o can afford
alonjit@reddit
yeah, but dodge. nah.
dchap1@reddit
The might make one that is sub 30, but the spec that everyone will want will be 40s…..
Skywardly@reddit
How about a sub 30k car
XxNitr0xX@reddit
Imagine Dodge is the next company to put out a Miata competitor, of all people..
one_five_one@reddit
Just fucking make it then.
Averageinternetdoge@reddit
"Naw we can't be bothered. Here's another slop SUV for you tho!"
TechnicalReception@reddit
They can't even be bothered to do that nowadays, unless it's a jeep or a ram. (and even then)
one_five_one@reddit
CVT jellybean incoming!
DeTomato_@reddit
That car could have become the American Miata. Shame it’s never been put into production.
AWDDude@reddit
Am I the only one who remembers that dodge essentially did make this, it was the Chrysler crossfire, it was too expensive and no one wanted it.
pridetwo@reddit
Saturn sky, Pontiac solstice, fiat 124, Honda del sol, s2000, MR2
The list of direct miata competitors is a graveyard of dead car models
zerosystem03@reddit
s2000 was definitely not a miata competitor. more like a z4 competitor
xXxDickBonerz69xXx@reddit
GM had to agree to kill Pontiac and Sky as part of their bailout agreement with the government. Sales were solid prior to the recession and then fell off a cliff. They were nearing the end of a generation, their manufacturers were axed, and consumers who wanted an affordable sports car either couldn't afford one or were too afraid to buy if they could.
The S2000 was very long in the tooth by 2008 and was killed off for similar reasons. Honda went into full panic mode due to the recession and the 9th gen Civic they designed during that period was the first Civic in decades that didn't make every Car and Driver or Motortrend most recommended list and they refreshed it after a single model year. They went hard conservative and were absolutely not going to redesign an affordable sports car when there was no market.
Fiat was just trying to rejoin the US market after being leaving decades before with an abysmal reliability record. The 124 was a Miata, with an FCA turbo engine at a time where the general sentiment toward turbo reliability still being very skeptical. Why would anyone pick a Miata made by the least reliable manufacturer under an extremely unreliable umbrella that used an engine type many were skeptical of. People were more than happy to deal with the perceived reliability concerns of a blown motor if it was making big power. But a more expensive less reliable Miata? Why?
Del Sol was FWD and a targa. It offered a worse top down experience, was less practical, and less fun to drive than a Miata. The only thing that was better about it was that screaming B series. It had its time and place, and was great. But it's not really even the same type of car.
The MR2 got softer while staying mid engined for the 3rd gen. Its harder to work on, and thus more expensive. I maintain if the MRS got more powerful and performance oriented instead of less it'd have been better received. It was heavier, less powerful, more expensive, and harder to work on than the new NC Miata that was coming out. Who was it for?
All the cars you mentioned had awful luck with needing a new generation during the 08 financial crisis, and/or did the Miata thing, but worse and for more money.
Its not a difficult formula. And other automakers have had success with it. Its not a full 1:1 but the Z3/Z4 did it until it moved significantly upmarket. The Toybarus have been doing it without the convertible option for almost two decades and don't show any signs of stopping.
Honestly the biggest issue that is stopping anyone other than Mazda from doing it right now is the K shaped economy. The number of people who can afford a cheap fun toy car, but not a much more expensive sports car is extremely small. There's more 2 door sports cars >$100k than <$100k currently. Just look at year over year Miata sales and its bleak. They're barely more than a fifth of their peak, with less competition. The working class just doesn't have disposable income anymore. Recent college grads can't afford a newer car. Kids who went into a trade and are now journeyman can't afford anything new, and even if they can they've been brainwashed into needing a truck with big chrome wheels. 40 somethings having a mid life crisis can either afford a 911 or a $900 Lego set, there's no in between. The pool of people who want a $30-40k roadster and can afford it is so small, and Mazda has gotten so good at it it's just going to be so hard for someone else to compete.
Goku420overlord@reddit
This. I would love a miata. But I cannot afford it.
Goku420overlord@reddit
My roommate had 2 different generations of mr2. Such a fun car.
WetChickenLips@reddit
Sky and Solstice are the same. 124 was literally a Miata. Del Sol and MR2 weren't really competitors. S2K was decently more expensive.
So out of this list, only 1 car was a real competitor. And it, along with it's manufacturers, died.
Riverrattpei@reddit
People always vastly underestimate the S2000's price, it was one of the more expensive options around in the 2000's and like $10k more than a Miata
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
You forget Prowler too.
B-Diddy@reddit
The Crossfire was just a warmed over Mercedes SLK. Not exactly a Miata competitor.
reddit_lemming@reddit
Oh the 3000+ lbs Crossfire? Totally comparable to a Miata, sure /s
SAR_89@reddit
Unfortunately, the Crossfire had the fact that it was terrible working against it
pridetwo@reddit
Saturn Sky was the american miata. Lot of good that did saturn
smilysmilysmooch@reddit
It feels like the Saturn Ion Redline was a GM response to the Mini Cooper S.
xXxDickBonerz69xXx@reddit
Well the whole Great Recession thing really fucked the Sky/Solstice...
Would have loved to see GM keep it alive as a Chevy whatever but all the manufacturers were in panic mode, especially GM having to have us bail them out.
Rod_Torfulson@reddit
As long as it isn't made by Stellantis
travoltaswinkinbhole@reddit
Give me a cheap, sporty American roadster please.
Enough-Scientist1904@reddit
Would most likely be 4 cylinder challenger or something along those lines but in Dodges current state i dont think this would happen
costafilh0@reddit
Subaru and Toyota and Mazda do it. So Ford can probably do it too.
If not under 30, at least near 30.
Tricky-Ad7897@reddit
Ford used to kinda with the ecoboost mustang. A bit bigger than the aforementioned models, probably not as nice handling, but it did have 300 hp. Of course instead of comparing ecoboost mustangs to similarly priced sports cars people stupidly compared them to GTs so they were overhated as hell.
Mydickisaplant@reddit
The ecoboost is no longer a sports car. They’ve taken away your ability to manually change gears via the paddles or the middle column on their automatic vehicles.
You cannot call a car a sports car if you can’t control what gear you’re in.
hurricanePopsicles@reddit
So no modern Ferrari, Lamborghini. Corvette or just about any other high end performance car is not a sports car?
TrptJim@reddit
"Manually change gears via the paddles." The cars you mention all allow manual manipulation of gears. I still don't agree with the OP as the paddles in the Ecoboost were terrible and didn't switch gears quickly enough to be considered a real override.
iroll20s@reddit
It's basically competing with a BRZ. Though a turbo is a smarter choice as it is much much much easier to get some more power out of it than a NA engine.
I'm thinking something like the Neon back in the day that did pretty well. Just wonder how much on the nonsense equipment you'll be able to ditch and still sell. Hopefully they have a stripper trim that has none of the modern tech and make the typical 'base' equipment a premium package.
Plaineswalker@reddit
There is but not one made by Dodge lol
Dodoz44@reddit
I'd say scratch the under 30k, make it 35k flat for base. And actually produce something worthy, ie Murican Miata. Slightly heavier, but more powerful, but same formula overall. Murican looks, though.
kilroy-was-here-2543@reddit
It’s an economy focused sports car, price point is an important metric here
PersiusAlloy@reddit
Listen Dodge slams paper on desk
1st gen neon body - but modernized.
Offer a turbo 4 cylinder, Modern I6 Hurricane and a HEMI if you're ballsy.
Make it in FWD, AWD, RWD.
Offer direct to consumer.
Try to keep up with demand.
leaves the room
PurdueGuvna@reddit
I agree with his thoughts. As a comparison, a base WRX was $30k two years ago. Remove AWD, cheaper interior, cheaper wheels, etc. An inline 4 is cheaper than a boxer 4 due to one less head, less machining, fewer assembly steps.
TowJammer212@reddit
So another 124 but with a better motor.
Trades46@reddit
Can Dodge even leverage anything from Stellantis Europe to make this even remotely possible? A car this price range means it has to have some sort of platform or parts sharing to be even close to feasible.
JamesRawles@reddit
"Included Accessory: Two orange Razor scooters were stored in the rear in place of a spare tire."
Babe, we have a flat. But don't worry, I'll get us a ride home.
Dgp68824402@reddit
They’ll then never actually make one.
Ill-Train6478@reddit
Dont think just do it
GarageUpdate@reddit
so Nice!
RafflesEsq@reddit
To this day, I still want the Copperhead.
GolfCoyote@reddit
Bring back the SRT-4, make it compete with the CTR but price it aggressively.
wolfpack_57@reddit
It’d be great if they can get their new turbo-4 into it. 330hp would be incredible
mgobla@reddit
They should use the platform of Alfa Giulia and use the newest version of the same engine (Hurricane I4 they already use in other models). Just give it different looks while using an already existing car underneth. That would be much cheaper and easier than developing a new model that would be worse than Giulia.
Tricky-Ad7897@reddit
Bring back the fiata then slap a dodge logo on it when you send it to North America.
Glum_Winter2579@reddit
It's dodge. It'll be the size of a miata but 4k lbs
djsilentmobius@reddit
Fuckin make it an Apsen and play off pedigree
TyrannosauRSX@reddit
You mean to tell me there wouldn't be much protest from consumers for making a cheap car??
Wow. Wonder if Oxford or Harvard had to figure that one out.
No shit, people would favor a decently priced vehicle. Its the dealiver markups that piss consumers off
HalliburtonErnie@reddit
I want a Neon SRT4 please.
ohnosevyn@reddit
Nissan IDX for me please to replace my FRS
xxyer@reddit
A new Dodge Daytona inspired by the forty year old design? Retro 80s designs should make a comeback, complete with fwd. Dodge should relaunch their brand as a Kia competitor, including a new Omni, Aries K & Lebaron coupe. At least people bought those cars and they were reliable.
the_fools_brood@reddit
I would love an affordable car I can pay off in 3 to 5 years versus 8 to 10 years now with average price of 50k. Average is 6 years now, with some 7 year and more loans available. Its insane.
STDriver13@reddit
They could've easily grabbed all their Neon SRT4 buyers.
THEREALCABEZAGRANDE@reddit
It sounds like the Hurricane 4 cylinder is a little ripper, and it has the same bellhousing as every Dodge engine for the last 30 years so the lighter duty 8HP would drop right in. And the LX diff has to go somewhere now. So the big parts of the drivetrain are done. Make a nice little chassis to put em in and it sounds pretty fun.
Sumocolt768@reddit
Man, if only it weren’t dodge
HomeOrificeSupplies@reddit
As one does when they’ve been fleecing the customer for the last 6 years. What a joke.
NeatlyCritical@reddit
You know would would really sell?
A sub 40K competent and quality compact SUV, you could sell like 500,000 of those a year.
phatsackocrap@reddit
Give me a stripper coupe on the Giulia platform, with the Hurricane 6, and a manual. Crank windows and cheap plastic interior. Give me that for $30k. Call it a 'Cuda if you want. They couldn't build enough of them.
downbadmilflover@reddit
Maybe a baby Viper 🥺
Fragrant-Anybody0717@reddit
A little sport coupe/roadster with that straight 6 turbo motor could be sick. Avenger with a Vengeance
LastGoodKnee@reddit
And they probably could have made one if they kept the Charger gas and made a version that wasn’t a borderline luxury car with all kinds of additions
Oo__II__oO@reddit
A turbo-four Crossfire would have been on point
Fidel_Cashflows@reddit
Idk man, people love the BRZ/GR86. Maybe they could do a Fiat 124 comeback under Dodge. Those cars were surprisingly great in Abarth form.
silvergoldtopic@reddit (OP)
I like them too. But I prefer the looks of the brz and when they got rid of the base trim this year they went from 32k new to 37k and that 5k increase put me off as I didn't like the mid trim and now it's kind of forced on you. Imo something fun/new and under $30k would do extremely well in manual/rwd w/ any reliable motor if it looks good enough.
Tuxedo_Muffin@reddit
A little unrealistic on the price, but everything else could be done if they put their mind to it.
I think instead of aiming for Miata or 86, go for Mustang Ecoboost.
Is it possible to lighten the Charger and put in a Hurricane 4?
MisterDoctor___@reddit
I need a Kei car in my life.
tsukuyomi-r@reddit
I saw an online artist turn the current Hornet into a hatchback and it looks amazing, actually suits the body style more as a sport hatch than a crossover suv. Would be a great GTI competitor.
Zherkezhi@reddit
In China.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
I mean, I do think the demand is there for something like that. But I don't think it's really that possible to economically make, especially without repurposing the platform into higher volume segments and spread the development costs around as much as possible.
Seeker80@reddit
That gives me an idea. If they can rub a few coins together and get a decent sports car platform made, it can be resized to cover a few bases.
The small one will be like the Fiat 124, maybe a 2+2. Some 4cyls will be fine.
Next up is largely enough to use the Hurricane I6 or Hemi V8. Think of this being like a Mustang/Camaro competitor.
Last is capable enough to actually be a 'Viper Jr' and satisfy those who miss the FR Corvettes.
Bubcats@reddit
Is he talking about Mazda or something?
joe2105@reddit
This automatically competes with the Miata and 86....I don't see how Dodge could even dream of that.
silvergoldtopic@reddit (OP)
Sub 30k would be a lot cheaper... If it were any good it would be legendary
brianwhite12@reddit
There’s absolutely opportunity, but I don’t believe Dodge can build it.
Good_Housekeeping@reddit
My dream car would be a Dodge Dart with AWD and the 5.7L hemi.
cyberdude419@reddit
I would love a hybrid manual sports car that is fun to drive and gets 35miles a gallon
Seeker80@reddit
Cut down the Giulia platform, and see what can be done. The 4cyl Hurricane would be good for it at that starting price. The 6cyl can be an SRT trim.
If they want to play very, very loosely with the 'sports car' term, I think there's room for a sport compact as well. Something almost like the Hornet, but a hot hatch instead of a CUV.
thisisjustascreename@reddit
The Neon SRT-4, which used the exact same engine, was FF, and subsidized by trillions of other Neons sharing most of its parts, cost 33% more than the Razor's "target price".
shoethemaker@reddit
“I would love to see something happen, but it doesn’t mean we’re actually going to do it.”
CarsAreRad@reddit
That’s what I like to hear brother.
silvergoldtopic@reddit (OP)
Also 2 days ago on spikescarradio Spike,Farah and Liberman discuss a new Porsche 356!
Link to new 356 discussion idea