Do you think there is gender inequality in the Balkans?

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Elias_Sideris@reddit

No, I wouldn't say there is, at least not here in Greece. To anyone reading this and thinks otherwise, please let me know a right that men have and women don't (or if the case is different in your country). I'm just curious. I'm not looking to argue.

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the_big_man2@reddit

also greek, not too familiar with legal system but some basic things thatd effect ones life:

significantly less likely to get hired for certain things, likely to get paid less if hired, likely to not be taken seriously / have skills continuously underminded, likely to be sexually harassed, asaulted, or raped, likely to not be believed / supported when this happens, etc

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Elias_Sideris@reddit

A woman might be less likely to get a job that needs physical prowess, but in general, you'll see "woman wanted for hire" much more often than the opposite. Regarding being SA'd or harassed in some other way, it's true, I'd just wouldn't categorize the higher chance of being targeted by horrible people as an equality thing. No matter how strict the legal system, the person who weighs 60 kilos will always be a more likely victim than the one weighing 80. The same it's true with children and the elderly. As for the last one "likely to not be believed/supposed when this happens", I honestly think men have it much worse.

Well, I said I wouldn't argue, so my bad. Just wanted to add some nuance to the conversation.

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Additional-Gur7915@reddit

In Kosove (and I believe it is the same anywhere), women are over 80% of the teachers. However, those in menagement positions in the education system, are mostly male. E.g. school directors are mostly male.

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Elias_Sideris@reddit

Do the people who decide who's going to get a manager position have a bias against women?

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Additional-Gur7915@reddit

Ofc. Everyone is biased against women. We do it unconciously. Even women are biased against women.

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Elias_Sideris@reddit

This is unfortunate to hear.

Btw, I think It's important to know how many women and men apply for manager positions. If women apply less, I'd like to know what discourages them from doing so more. That could be an interesting survey.

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Additional-Gur7915@reddit

There's no application here. They choose the person, then prepare the process to fit them.

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Elias_Sideris@reddit

They choose the person without them having expressed they want the position? That's weird.

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Additional-Gur7915@reddit

No, they discuss who's gonna get the position. E.g. the son of a friend, a cousin or someone they can control or bribe. They discuss it with the person beforehand. Then they open the position and accept the person... that's how it goes.

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Elias_Sideris@reddit

In this case, nepotism is the main issue. It's a problem here in Greece as well.

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Additional-Gur7915@reddit

Yes. But they know women, just as well as men. Yet, higher positions always go to men.

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ZhiveBeIarus@reddit

💯💯💯

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Usual_Improvement_43@reddit

People confuse sexism with inequality in the legal system. Although admittedly it can influence that

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Elias_Sideris@reddit

I like this take.

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Envinyatar123@reddit

Sadly yes, I mean we are almost equal today but systemic discrimination still exists. and it starts early. Boys are pushed towards ambition, leadership, engineering, or politics, while girls are guided towards appearance, and family roles, basically limitations are imposed on them, and boys learn that as well. There are still clear areas where inequality shows, especially how women’s concerns in healthcare and reproductive rights are not taken seriously enough, and dismissal of female voices in politics. Some women too go against their own gender, because that is how they were raised. Plenty of men understand this and treat women with respect. But many still see women as inferior or as supporting characters in their lives. Things are better than 15–20 years ago, but there is still a long way to go.

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driftstyle28@reddit

I think Montenegro is one of the most misogynist countries in Europe at least, I know of situations where a father dies, his son inherits everything and his daughter gets nothing, also how forced girls are into traditional household jobs or roles. I know girls, 30+ that are still scared of their fathers and treat them as some sort of god.

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Envinyatar123@reddit

Yes. Before, that was generally accepted. However, now it’s more common in the north, while in the south and central parts it is becoming less and less so. If there was no brother, women would even give up inheritance in favor of the closest male relative. Simply put, a woman was considered “someone else’s dinner or someone else’s house.” families with all girls' children are just considered less important within families.

Still, I have to say, a lot of Montenegrin women are now significantly more assertive and no longer allow anyone to mistreat them. I think many people would say they are a bit more aggressive nowadays. But behind us lies a long history of humiliating women, abuse, and enforced silence. We were raised one way, and later life shows us how wrong that was and how different we have to be.

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Additional-Gur7915@reddit

I see. You have the same social norms as we (Albanians) in Kosove. It's the same situation here.

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

think Montenegro is one of the most misogynist countries in Europe at least, I know of situations where a father dies, his son inherits everything and his daughter gets nothing,

This is law or cultural?

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driftstyle28@reddit

Definitely not law but cultural, they go by the logic "the girl will get married and leave the household and the boy will stay to make his own". I inherited 3 houses and a grave place from my Montenegrin granfather while my two female cousins got nothing, I split the property into 3 and gave them a house each.

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

Oh ok because if it was law it would really be completely surprising to me that it still exists in an European country. But yeah definetely still bad.

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driftstyle28@reddit

Albania is even worse by such things, especially the North. If you are a woman born in Albania you are first treated as property by your father and brothers and after that by your husband. And as I mentioned in a comment above, something called "honor killing"... Horrible horrible fate.

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Crypto-KeeperALB@reddit

Balkan man are retarded. But the younger ones just gamble play soccer for a few years and the young ladies finish school and actually do something so I see a big shift in the near future

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Eymael-78@reddit

Search how the educational model beneficts women and punishes men. There is also all that feminazist nonsense

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Crypto-KeeperALB@reddit

Yeh being smart and learning punishes dumb men that are easily tricked by lies and people like trump or Putin. But education is great for normal human beings in the Balkans most men don’t fall under that category because they have been fed alot of lies and believe them very stubbornly. Doesn’t matter to me it just is what it is

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Eymael-78@reddit

Why when women have less in anything it is men's fault but when it's the opposite it is also men's fault? Feminism is really schizofrenic.

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

A Slovenian tour guide told me "back in the days the guys would go to the bar and drink and women would go study. Now those guys are still in the bar and the women are leaders and prime ministers" 🤣

I would add they are in the bar miserebly complaining how feminists took their jobs when in fact its because they are lazy idiots who don't do shit.

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ZhiveBeIarus@reddit

Balkan men aren't retarded at all, i see you are Albanian, i have many Albanian friends and they're all completely normal and not sexist in any way shape or form, you are probably just an Americanized feminist.

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SwimmingHelicopter15@reddit

Time to brag with Romania.

We are on second place in gender wage gap in a Europe. After Luxembourg.

We are one of the few countries that allow the father to take childcare leave, meaning almost 2 years.

In stem jobs we have one of the highest rates of women.

Contrary to what other Redditors believe, a man can file for domestic violence against their wife and file a protection order.

More men are implicated in childcare then 10 years ago.

Things were we need to improve:

-household chores. Still a lot of men expect the women to do all. And Frankly knowing basic cooking skills, doing laundry should be universal skills

-custody of children. There have been cases where the women had mental health issues or were violent and still got full custody even if men wanted to have joint at least.

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driftstyle28@reddit

Romania the GOAT

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morphick@reddit

Still a lot of men expect the women to do all.

How many men expect their wives to change brakepads, fix a faucet or a broken socket, carry the groceries, fix a roof, fence or gate, build a patio, shed or garage etc?

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SwimmingHelicopter15@reddit

How many times do you fix a faucet and how many times to you do your laundry? How much time it takes on average per year?

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morphick@reddit

How many times do you fix a faucet

Every time it's needed. Just like I do every one of the other tasks I've mentioned (of which you conveniently chose to cherry-pick): when there's a need for them. And I'm neither expecting nor gasslighting my wife to do them.

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

If its needed you call a plumber you pay and they do it. Do you call a person to do your laundry and pay them, everytime you need it? Because otherwise its unpaid labour.

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morphick@reddit

I DIY as much as I can, except for things that I either:

can't
won't
don't know how

to do it myself.; in which case I definitely pay for parts and labour to have it done.

What's this got to do with anything?

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

Dude, if your faucet breaks everyday what you need to do is move to a different house.

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morphick@reddit

Dude, a homestead has lots of things to be done other than fixing faucets.

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

At this point I am just very concerned about your faucets.

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morphick@reddit

They're being taken care of just fine, you'd be better off concerning yourself about your reading comprehension.

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

But if they keep breaking you should call a plumber because maybe you ain't fixing them right!

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morphick@reddit

Either you can't read, or you can read just fine but have trouble understanding.

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

Or I just have a sense of humour.

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morphick@reddit

Hardly

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SwimmingHelicopter15@reddit

Fine. Tell me how many times it usually breaks something in your house or car and how much time you spend per year versus how much do basic household chores take per year. Do you come every evening after work exhausted and fix the house? Damn your house seems odd

As for carry groceries. I don't recall seeing only men doing it. Mostly women do the shopping alone. Nice try

Of yeah gaslight, favorite excuse when the thruth is harsh and can't accept it

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morphick@reddit

Damn your house seems odd

It is what it is. I'll take a better one if you're paying for it.

It seems like you're the one sitting around doing nothing around the house, and you're trying to make yourself fell better about it by guilt-tripping everyone else that actually does stuff. Grow up and get busy, your wife isn't your personal servant.

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SwimmingHelicopter15@reddit

Yeah sure try to immagine things when you can't win an argument.

Stop writing on Reddit than. By avoiding my direct answer you seem to have a house that requires 4 hours of respairs per day

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morphick@reddit

You have precisely ZERO idea what a household requires in maintenance and upkeep, no wonder you're doing nothing at all. I'm not trying to "win" anything, Internet isn't a game and I've outgrown that minset cor a longer time than you've been around. Like I said: grow up and start being productive for your family. Nobody likes parasites, and washing your underwear every now and again won't compensate for that.

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SwimmingHelicopter15@reddit

Still avoinding to answer directly and just trying to Attack me. Ah classic power less move when you want to try to win an argument. Because you see, you keep answering me and avoiding my questions because your ego wants to have the upper hand.

If you have such a good life fixing your fence every day go on enjoy

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driftstyle28@reddit

Yes, especially in rural areas and in Albania, Montenegro etc.

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

But not in Serbia 🤣 loved the examples 🤣🤣

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driftstyle28@reddit

Not that much in Serbia, Albania and Montenegro though still have a very tribal mentality, very traditional family values and are very religious still. Montenegro and Albania are very hick hillbilly countries in general.

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ZhiveBeIarus@reddit

Albania isn't sexist at all, i have been there multiple times and it's clear that women have the exact same rights as men there.

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driftstyle28@reddit

You haven't been born an Albanian woman in Albania, especially not in a household where you have a brother. You haven't seen how Albanian men treat Albanian women. Very traditional and one of the rare places in Europe where beating your wife is normalized.

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abandonedtulpa@reddit

Yes, Mount Athos is a prime example /s

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

Tbh as a feminist I wish there were more mounts where a bunch of men would live away from society. 🤣🤣

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Flaky_Specialist1143@reddit

I mean it's true

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

Joke's on them I am a trans man and want to make a pilgrimage there with my little brother when we are older

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the_big_man2@reddit

yooo fellow greek trans guy 🤝

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ifudontstfu@reddit

I still don’t think they’ll let you in though unless you are max out on testosterone and trick them

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Flaky_Specialist1143@reddit

Tbh how do they check? It's purely based on looks right? No ID or anything

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ifudontstfu@reddit

I have heard of them asking for ID but I don’t know if they do it all the time. I’m sure if somebody looks and sounds masculine enough they might be able to get in.

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

I am lucky enough to be able to transition young and already have a beard growing in and my voice is starting to drop at 24 so I think I'll be fine by the time I'm 50+

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Flaky_Specialist1143@reddit

Yeah you'll be able to go on, as long as you look stereotypically masculine

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GayOver@reddit

yes, against man

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

yes, against man

I saw a lot of discrimination in Kosovo against Tito the man, can confirm.

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PhantomO1@reddit

you are literally from the balkans, did you even ever have a doubt as to that OP?

like the answer is obviously yes lol

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ZhiveBeIarus@reddit

you are literally from the balkans

There is no sexism in the Balkans, women have the same rights as men and most men aren't abusive.

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PhantomO1@reddit

lol

lmao even

insanely low tier bait

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ZhiveBeIarus@reddit

Not bait, answer my questions straight instead of crying.

A) Are Greek women allowed to work?

B) Are Greek women allowed to vote?

C) Can Greek women inherit property and money?

D) Is it socially acceptable for a Greek man to slap his wife?

E) Are there ANY rights that Greek men have but Greek woman lack?

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

It might no for all but

A) Are there greek men who'd like it to be Yes for all?

I would say Yes, and you are probably one of them. Hence why feminism must exist because social conquests are not irreversible. It can always regress due to certain people, if others don't stop it.

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Big-Vegetable4550@reddit

Looks like he’s pretty good at it. In fact, I’d say he’s a master baiter!

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ShelterIndependent44@reddit

If men still pay the check, no

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

I pay all my checks, hence I no longer see use for a man in my life. I wish more women can feel this freedom one day.

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morphick@reddit

If you only see men as "useful tools that pay the checks", that's more telling about you than men.

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

Not really because when I did not have money I did not rely on men either, it just sucked lol

A lot of women specially in poorer countries, need to get together with men (if they are hetero) because its the only way they can have a house, otherwise it is hard to pay rent or buy with just one income, specially because women make less. So I believe a lot of relationships would not exist and women would not put up with so much shit if they were financially free. Ofc religious brainwashing also has a role here. It took me a while to detox from the patriarchal propaganda I've been exposed since a child but its completely doable and having financially freedom ofc helps a lot.

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Similar_Post7690@reddit

That would be gender inequality against men

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ShelterIndependent44@reddit

Corrected

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RustyCaffeine@reddit

I did not say that, but Balkan people being mainly more conservative than western and northern Europeans is a reality

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Beautiful-Dish-6275@reddit

I think we are in the upper part of the eu when it comes to women in high positions so i guess no.

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Flaky_Specialist1143@reddit

Better means perfect? Is representation in leadership positions all gender inequality is about?

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morphick@reddit

Better means perfect?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

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Flaky_Specialist1143@reddit

So it is unrealistic to have gender equality?

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morphick@reddit

Gender equality is idiocy. Different gender exist precisely because they're not the same. What we should be striving for is equal rights and equal opportunities and equal freedom of choices, not equal genders. The difference might seem small, but in fact it is paramount.
Just because "we're not 100% there" does not mean "we're in a bad place". Simply because (a) we're in a better place than before, (b) we're in a better place than many other places are now and (c) we're heading in the right direction.

Criticism for the sake of being edgy is no good at all.

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Beautiful-Dish-6275@reddit

Idk bro, not educated on the topic, but i think its pretty equal here.

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Flaky_Specialist1143@reddit

"not educated on the topic"

got it, no point in a debate then

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Beautiful-Dish-6275@reddit

Well, do you disagree with me?

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Flaky_Specialist1143@reddit

Absolutely. I laid out two counterpoints. Just because statistics of female representation in senior positions are better than those in other countries, it does not imply they are perfect. It does not imply that equality has been or is nearing achievement. Then, I asked you if gender inequality is all about female representation in senior positions. What about other sociocultural aspects?

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Beautiful-Dish-6275@reddit

Idk, i have 2 sisters and a mother who im all very close with. They generally dont face inequality in everyday life or when trying to get a job or something. Paired with statistics in general looking like women and men are equal here, i derived that they are.

Thats abt it. Croatian men are not sexists either. Atleast the ones i have met and seen online.

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Flaky_Specialist1143@reddit

As I've said, let's leave it there

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Beautiful-Dish-6275@reddit

Works for me

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TurdEye69@reddit

Nope

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ZhiveBeIarus@reddit

Correct, all the comments are so woke lol.

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Eymael-78@reddit

I know that this is Reddit but I expected more of the Balkans

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TurdEye69@reddit

It’s full of bots and propaganda. Our Reddit community is not a realistic representation of our reality.

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SunnyTheMasterSwitch@reddit

Legally no, socially yes.

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Lonely-Sunbed-2508@reddit

Yes

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ZhiveBeIarus@reddit

Not true

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Lonely-Sunbed-2508@reddit

So there’s gender equality?

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shogunlazo@reddit

legally there isn't ... but culturally there is a lot depending on the region, especially in rural areas

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the_lonely_creeper@reddit

Legally as well. Plenty of laws discriminate based on sex

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shogunlazo@reddit

in the ex yugo countries we dont really have that problem thanks to the communist party, most of which was written into the new countries

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ZhiveBeIarus@reddit

I doubt that, i briefly passed through Resen a few years ago (i think it counts as rural?) and as far as i remember women had the exact same rights as men.

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shogunlazo@reddit

Resen is a small town, on the road to ohrid ... not a good comparison

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Foreign_Thought_5252@reddit

Unfortunately, there is inequality for both genders in the Balkans. Women suffer more in the countryside, but some men suffer as equal in the urban areas

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Paws_n_Pixels@reddit

1000000000000%

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Substratas@reddit

gif

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Technical-Motor5944@reddit

Undeniably. We are definitely not the worst place for gender equality but we aren't the champions of it either. In Greece misogyny is very real and pretty much a part of our society, i mean we literally have Mount Athos which prohibits and denies all entries made by female visitors

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ZhiveBeIarus@reddit

Nonsense, misogyny is nonexistent in Greece, Greek woman have the exact same rights as Greek men and Greek men don't usually hit their girlfriends.

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Eymael-78@reddit

Women and men aren't equal and feminism is a cancer.

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RedScarySpectre@reddit

Oh lord, found the only Brazilian in the world I dislike.

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

Lol someone's a virgin. Who rejected you young mallard?

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itsismini@reddit

Are you like...blind? YES!

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EpicStan123@reddit

Yep. In some aspects the gender inequality is better than some Western Countries, but in other Aspects it's worse. Kinda a mixed bag.

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Couchfar@reddit

in what aspects do countries have worse gender inequality in the west?

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ZhiveBeIarus@reddit

Not at all.

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Istar10n@reddit

Legally, yes. Practically, probably only in urban areas and with educated people. I still see lots of stories of domestic abuse where the police doesn't do much or anything. Or sexual abuse of teenage girls in villages.

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MrSmileyZ@reddit

There is Gender inequality everywhere, to deny that would be idiotic.

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Many-Rooster-7905@reddit

Žižek standing on Sava bridge in Ljubljana

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AppointmentQuirky960@reddit

Bro is this even a question?

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ujore@reddit

Yes.

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zeisme@reddit

I'm just gonna say this. Any country that you live in, it doesn't matter.. You have TV shows right? Probably with really nationally popular female and male leads. Just do a simple google search on how much they make and compare.

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Thrusher1337@reddit

There is and always will be inequality, since it isn't a problem that can be eliminated (kinda like unemployment). The goal is bringing inequality to a minimum and the Balkans are definitely a bit behind the rest of the "civilized" world.

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

In this place ain't no such a thing as civilized. It's man so in love with greed he forgets himself and finds only A P P E T I T E S

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Eymael-78@reddit

It literally is not a problem.

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Third_Rate_Duelist_@reddit

Absolutely, like there is everywhere in different degrees. I'd say in the balkans it's more than in America, but less than in the Middle East.

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Glittering-Most-4124@reddit

is grass, green?

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MysteriousIron5798@reddit

I personally think gender equality is one of the strange side effects of socialism. Women have been part of the workforce for a longer time and in many Balkan countries like Bulgaria and Romania, they make a large part of financial, STEM, IT and overall white collar positions. I also think a lot of the "gender norms" we have in the Balkans actually balance things out in a strange way, we expect that a woman cooks, cleans and takes care of the kids but we also expect that a man drives, takes care of the car, does maintenance around the house and yard, cooks when it comes to meat (because for some reason that is a mans job) and pays for dates. The main issues we face are linked to violence and that impacts both genders. Unfortunately violence towards women is still prevalent in older generations, at the same time violence towards men is laughed at and not taken seriously at all which is also an issue.

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