"EU needs more countries" Zelensky calls on EU to accept Turkey. What do Balkans think?
Posted by SOHONEYSAME@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 238 comments
ESC-H-BC@reddit
EU everytime: "Turkey is not Europe, we don't that islamic mongols camel ridding with us"
EU when their butt it will be kicked: "Turkey, you can join us, you're one of us, pls send your army!"
NoBluejay4723@reddit
I am starting to lose respect for this guy. I will always support UKRAINE but this guy is riding around on a high horse telling people what they should do.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
I really like Ukraine,
but I dislike the current regime, for sure.
riquelm@reddit
Ataturk's Turkey yes, Erdogan's no
Forward-Rub-8187@reddit
not even that one. turky is completely incompatible with European values.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
What are those European values?
Botanical_Director@reddit
The fundamental values of the European Union, as enshrined in Article 2 of the Treaty of Lisbon, are respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law, and respect for human rights (including the rights of persons belonging to minorities). These values form the legal foundation of the EU and define a society where pluralism, non-discrimination, tolerance, justice, solidarity, and equality between women and men prevail.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
You have multiple member-states that undermine each and every single one of these values.
Human dignity, how many support Israel, USA, Russia, Saudi?
Democracy, isn't the democracy undermined in Hungary? Romania?
Human rights? Aren't Bulgaria, Poland and Greece infamous for migrant pushbacks (regardless of whether it's justified or not)?
Sounds to me, once you make it in the club, you can be quite selective with these values.
-Kerrigan-@reddit
Help me see the connection between human rights and immigration policies
LarsMatijn@reddit
Well you see as unfortunate as some might find if immigrants are still humans. Wich means that putting them in cramped camps with bad access to food and water or subjecting them to violence is still frowned upon in polite society.
-Kerrigan-@reddit
The words "migrant pushbacks" doesn't clearly imply that. I asked for more information to understand what OP meant.
Someone can say "migrant pushbacks" to talk about stricter immigration policies, for example.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
https://www.ohchr.org/en/universal-declaration-of-human-rights/illustrated-universal-declaration-human-rights
Can you tell me what article 3 and article 14 say? Furthermore, can you explain whether pushing someone in the Mediterranean sea conflicts with the right to life? Or pushing someone back at the Bulgaria-Turkey border conflicts with the right to seek asylum? Or maybe how they're not getting a fair process?
I'm also against asylum in general but don't be obtuse
-Kerrigan-@reddit
Yeah, don't be condescending.
It's much easier to say what you mean from the get go than, I just asked to see the link, because "human rights" and "immigration" encompasses so fuckin much that I don't know what the hell you are talking about specifically, just the examples would have been enough, no need for passive-aggressive "gotcha" questions.
I'm not arguing against the right for asylum, I'm just saying that immigration policies aren't incompatibile with the right itself. Something like "Someone has the right to request asylum, but the country doesn't have an obligation to grant it to everyone indefinitely". Naturally, they want to do screenings. I don't see it as a human rights violation to ask that an immigrant integrates or else they aren't granted the nationality.
So yes, unfair treatment can be and intentionally leading to loss of life is a human rights violations, never even implied otherwise.
Botanical_Director@reddit
No I think what they meant is the way that illegal immigrants are treated when they are stoped, put into detention or detered.
There have been cases of overuse of violence. And I can absolutely see their point.
However bringing in favor of Turkey I don't see it, they are also know to be consistently brutal with immigrants.
Botanical_Director@reddit
All the more reasons to be drastically selective before accession because Turkey is statistically & consistently performing way poorer than all the problematic countries listed.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
There is no reason to be more or less selective. There is an objective accession process which is supposed to take away emotions and feelings. Though this discussion always comes down to consolidation of power. I don't see it any other way.
Temporary_County1838@reddit
😂😂😂😁
Hour-Promotion-2496@reddit
being European
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
Being European is a European value?
Man sometimes I forget I'm debating retards here
Hour-Promotion-2496@reddit
Triggered Middle Eastern Turk
sayinmer@reddit
you are a fucking idiot
Temporary_County1838@reddit
Is Cyprus European?
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
culturally, yes.
solor84@reddit
Don't genocide.
antinatalistkitty@reddit
White and Christian
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
Guess that's why UK left
zeisme@reddit
Just some liberal stuff if you ask them but they're still racist lol but yeah Turkey shouldn't want anything to do with the eu it doesn't make sense
zeisme@reddit
Tbh it's not even about the european/turkish values. Turkey, in its entire history, always fought with european countries. I don't see why people think it makes sense to join the eu because some part of Turkey is in europe geographically. Even if the values matched, it sounds weird. It's like Russia and US uniting.
chrstianelson@reddit
And people get mad when I say people in this sub are ignoramus knobs who know nothing about history yet somehow always feel competent enough to make judgements on it.
That's what happens when you get your history from a state-sponsored nationalistic indoctrination scheme, I guess.
Turkey had economic and military alliances with England, with Germany and other European powers throughout its history. Both Turkey's and France's longest alliance in their entire history is with each other, lasting over 260 years. The Renaissance was funded in no small part by Genoese and Venetians making themselves richer than Midas, trading with the Ottomans.
"Turkey always fought with European countries" in a sentence to support the idea that Turkey should be excluded from Europe is such an idiotic thing to say honestly.
So did England, France, Germany, Netherlands and Italy. Turkey fought with and against European countries because Turkey has always been a major European power. That's what major European powers do. They fight with each other.
zeisme@reddit
I'm not a nationalist and haven't consumed any nationalist-local media in a long time.
I'm not crazy about history but I know about Turkey having alliances with eu countries especially France because of Suleyman but that doesn't change the fact that they don't get along in general. Some alliances born from mutual benefits can't change that.
Netherlands and Germany are not racist against eachother but most of europe is racist against Turkey. EU obv doesn't want Turkey. Turkey wanting to join EU is therefore ridiculous. Turkey shouldn't join them if they need Turkey to do so.
jerrydrakejr@reddit
Europe has always been at peace other than fighting with Turkey.
zeisme@reddit
simply no
jerrydrakejr@reddit
What do you mean? Except for Cold War, WW1, WW2, and the wars in the previous two thousand plus years no European country or nation had any hostilities or war with each other.
Bilmemkineyapsam@reddit
Are we going to ignore European infighting and the fact that most of the European countries that form the EU were each other’s biggest enemies in the past?
Almost like things change..
zeisme@reddit
You're right but if Turkey has any pride they shouldn't want to join the eu. They obv don't want it, why are we fighting for it? They might need us one day and we should simply just refuse
shockfella@reddit
Didn’t every European country fight other European countries in their entire histories as well?
TXDobber@reddit
I don’t see how it could even be worth considering until they end the occupation of northern Cyprus. Turkey cannot credibly claim to be angry with what Israel is doing in the West Bank in terms of settler colonialism when they are doing the exact same thing in northern Cyprus.
PembeGandalf@reddit
Whats are the european values
Agron7000@reddit
What?
Turkey before Kosovo?
Never!
sarlatan747@reddit
EU countries are democracies with elected leaders. Mr. Zelenskys term has been over for years and is basically a dictator at this point.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
it's a regime.
RandomPersonYouSee@reddit
Thanks, see you in a couple decades.
Delicious-Gap1744@reddit
I think Turkey should be more than welcome in the EU, if it heads in a more secular and democratic direction after Erdogan.
-CSL@reddit
Even then it would be difficult. Accession requires unanimity; both Greece and Cyprus hold veto power.
gvstavvss@reddit
Turkey has been strongly secular for a hundred years now while Denmark still has an established church by the way.
LarsMatijn@reddit
I would agree but it's not happening.
Their population would put them immediatly at #1 for EU representatives and give them a massive amount of influence. There is no way that either Germany or France are going to want that.
Delicious-Gap1744@reddit
They would be tied with Germany, the number of MP's for each member state is capped. And smaller states are over-represented. They would just be one of several large members, no matter how much their population grows.
And coalitions of smaller countries like Benelux+Nordics would hold more power, because of the over-representation of smaller members.
Jumpy_Conference1024@reddit
We weren’t accepted before Erdoğan, why would we be accepted after?
EliRed@reddit
Yeah there's also the tiny detail of them invading and still occupying part of a european country, but we don't talk about that.
overstandingduck@reddit
So turkey invaded a EU member country ? OR eu fked up its own rules and made cyprus its member even when its land disputes continued
Delicious-Gap1744@reddit
Cyprus would have to be resolved diplomatically. It's optimistic, yes, and very difficult. But possible.
Interesting_Life249@reddit
second one
Delicious-Gap1744@reddit
I am well aware. Cyprus would have to be resolved for Turkey to integrate with the EU.
If Turkey headed in a more secular and democratic direction, that would at least by my definition also include a willingness to find a diplomatic resolution to the division of Cyprus.
lovinGamin@reddit
We definitely don’t biting it, its Türkiye’s red line too
Delicious-Gap1744@reddit
I think a diplomatic solution is possible one day. It will take time for people to forget the invasion, and for tempers to cool.
Everyone would have to make compromises. Maybe reunification of Cyprus, through some bicameral legislature, a slightly complicated federal state of sorts. Like Bosnia and Herzegovina, Belgium, or Switzerland. Or a permanent split.
A true compromise, is something no one is really completely happy with, but it's enough to avoid more fighting.
RandomPersonYouSee@reddit
North Cyprus can and wants to re-unify, and that talk will happen someday.
Accomplished-One5765@reddit
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Delicious-Gap1744@reddit
He's 72 years old. There is going to be an after. And he hasn't even been in power *that* long relatively speaking, all it takes to remove someone like Erdogan is him becoming unpopular enough that the people are going to do something about it.
Lots of wanna-be autocrats in democracies that have seen democratic backsliding, have been overthrown. Of course some have also remained in power, and turned their nation into an autocracy. We don't know the fate of Turkey yet.
I'm just saying that Turkey could be a very different country 10 or 20 years from now.
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
In reality, Turkish bid for EU membership was stalled before Erdogan, and lets be honest here, partially due to it being large and Muslim.
A lot of prejudice hides behind supposedly neutral, procedural process of accession. Every single wave of EU expansion was in part political. Greece threatening to veto expansion in 2004 unless Cyprus got it meant that Cyprus got in without settling its Northern Cyprus issue. Apart from six years, all of Hungarys time in the EU was spent under Orban Victor, hardly a beacon of democracy.
Serbia was also stalled in part because its different. Autocrats are just a convenient excuse.( But yes of course rule of law must be improved, and no I am not denying the corruption.)
enesasc@reddit
Yeah he is old and already is preparing his son to replace him and eliminating all the bureaucracy who likely against his son. And also putting his rivals into prison, who knows what future brings but unfortunately the country is going somewhere basically sultanate / supreme leadership ruling model.
Delicious-Gap1744@reddit
Like the kings of old, it still all relies on the ruler maintaining enough popular support, that people don't revolt. Turkey isn't a full autocracy yet.
And Turkey has democratic and secular roots, people still remember Ataturk. In the end, it's up to the Turkish people. Right now, a major election upset might still be possible, Turkey's in a weird place, to my understanding there isn't vote-packing or outright lying about election results, the opposition is just snuffed out.
A major popular movement is needed. I'm interested to see what happens in Hungary this Sunday. If Orban is toppled, it could inspire others.
MidnightVintage@reddit
You know, I'm actually scared of what will happen..
tragick693@reddit
I mean, he has to die at some point. Probably not in the immediate future tho.
the_reeee@reddit
Bro doesn't know the eternal supreme leader strat SMH
MerTheGamer@reddit
We still would not be accepted. It was EU and US that pressured Turkey and supported his campaign when we literally jailed him for religious extremism. He is their lapdog.
Delicious-Gap1744@reddit
I don't think the EU and US are going to be in the same geopolitical bloc going forward. I don't even think we are anymore, other than on paper.
My country, with the support of several European allies + Canada were literally preparing to go to war with the US over Greenland back in January. We sent blood for potential wounded, and explosives for blowing up landing strips to make it difficult for the US to bring in troops. And our allies were ready to commit potential thousands of troops. France was ready to send warships, and helped us rapidly deploy fighter jets with their air-tankers.
Tides are turning, the world as you know it won't be around for much longer.
RandomPersonYouSee@reddit
It can (and probably will), and most democratic instutions can come back. However EU membership will be a long way to go, especially considering the political climate now.
Delicious-Gap1744@reddit
Oh for sure, EU member ship would be decades way even optimistically.
But alignment of some sort isn't unrealistic. I frankly find that possible even under Erdogan. Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure NATO is already dead behind the scenes, I mean we were literally preparing for war with the US back in January over Greenland, sending explosives to blow up landing strips to make it difficult for them to send in troops, blood for potential wounded. Several European allies + Canada were willing to send a total of possibly thousands of troops. France was ready to send warships, and helped us rapidly deploy fighter jets, with their air-tankers as support.
What alignment makes the most sense for Turkey when this all falls apart? Even under Erdogan I'd say European alignment, or a balanced 'neutral' approach. Several of European countries, especially France, like Erdogan's government, are skeptical of US-supported Israel's actions for instance. European alignment could make sense geopolitically no matter who's in power.
Ok_Confusion4762@reddit
If we were able to stay secular and democratic, we wouldn't need EU
This-Wall-1331@reddit
Sure but back in 2004 Hungary was secular and democratic, and now it is what it is.
jojaibranjainvestt@reddit
Lol
LaVeriteEstDansLeVin@reddit
Bro wants to drag Europe into a war with Russia. No thanks but good luck, sending you our sincerest thoughts and many many prayers 🙏
Bilmemkineyapsam@reddit
Russia has been at war with Europe, and European countries are well aware of it, which is why they are funding the Ukraine vs. Russia war, as they benefit from its prolongation since they will need to intervene at some point.
LaVeriteEstDansLeVin@reddit
No it hasn't. No one has declared war against Russia.
The eurocuck bureaucrats can dream about a war but that doesn't mean that they're going to get it. Nobody wants to die for Ukraine.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
They do everything in line with that of nations at war.
Espionage, liquidations, cyber war, theft, etc. They likely hired Dutch youth to carry some bomb (more like hard firework) attacks.
LaVeriteEstDansLeVin@reddit
None of those things are equivalent to war. War means soldier A fights against soldier B.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
War just means open conflict between (at least) two parties. Legally it probably needs to pass the political processes to 'officially' be at war.
But that's beside the point. I said they move like they are at war with certain EU-member states. What peaceful country endorses cyber attacks against the EU?
chrstianelson@reddit
Yeah because Ukraine not joining the EU is what's stopping Russia from attacking the rest of Europe.
"Hey guys, we don't want war with Germany. Let's give them Austria, Sudetenland and the rest of Czechoslovakia.
LaVeriteEstDansLeVin@reddit
They can't even get passed Ukraine and you think they want a war with countries like France who have nuclear weapons?
chrstianelson@reddit
No, I think they want to fight the smaller countries like Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Georgia, Moldova, Romania etc. and your kind of "oh we don't want war with them, let them do whatever they want as long as they don't bother us" appeasement bullshit is the exact kind of thing that helps them achieve that.
LaVeriteEstDansLeVin@reddit
1)they won't attack an eu or nato country
2) it's very stupid to get involved in a war when it doesn't concern you
BorisCot@reddit
A Greek sucks a Russian dick, classic
PhantomO1@reddit
imagine not wanting to fight in war, must be a russian dicksucker!
nah man, im all for sending the ukranians aid despite the economic hit we took, but if anyone wants to risk their lives to fight in war, they can simply volunteer
ordering troops, our men and women, plenty of whom are conscripted, to fight for another country, is something i will never support
material support and volunteers will have to be enough
BorisCot@reddit
No European country will send troops to Ukraine, and everyone, including Zelensky, understands this. Even if Ukraine is accepted into the EU through some special procedure created specifically for them, no one will send troops anyway. Ukraine is a country that prevents the possibility that the Greeks will have to fight the Russians, because until Ukraine falls, Russia will definitely not attack the Baltic countries.And you are indirectly helping Russia by spreading propaganda narratives, although you probably don't do it on purpose.
PhantomO1@reddit
the eu has a mutual defense clause
ukraine can have a special relationship with the eu, but no full membership until the war ends
what else could ukraine even get from entering the eu if its not to call upon eu troops? they already get financial and material assistance, as well as volunteers... do they want free movement of goods and people? they can join schengen... and somehow i doubt they wanna contribute to the eu fund, so why would we allow them to have a say in our matters?
never mind the euro, joining the euro needs to be mandatory for future eu candidates, and ukraine cant do that with a war going on
BorisCot@reddit
The EU means even more financial aid, even more material aid, and no Orban or Fico will block it.
PhantomO1@reddit
the defense clause is currently being looked at, after all the issues with the US and natos potential unreliability
ukraine joining would not stop rogue countries from blocking more aid, thats an issue with the veto power, which is another issue that the eu needs to solve before any more countries join in general
BorisCot@reddit
Don't change the subject, my point is that Zelenskyy is not dragging the EU into war, not that Ukraine should join the EU.
PhantomO1@reddit
im not saying it will definitely drag the eu into a war, i just dont see what ukraine hopes to gain from it beyond dragging the eu into the war, because everything else it could gain in other ways
when i asked, all you said is "more aid" even though i dont see how it is necessary for them to join to get more aid, or how it would even make it easier to get more aid, considering the veto is still in place
i furthermore dont think any more countries should join the eu as it is right now
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
eh?
u think Greeks would "fight Russia" over the Baltics?
delusional.
BorisCot@reddit
Then what are you even afraid of, lol? If Greece won't even fight for the Baltics, then no one will drag you into a war in Ukraine
LaVeriteEstDansLeVin@reddit
When the war started, zelensky was talking in the Cypriot parliament via video call. When he finished, the president of the parlement started talking about how Cyprus understands their situation because they suffered the same with the turks. You know what happened? Zelensky fucking «disconected» ahahahaha
So yeah, as I said, many thoughts and prayers to Ukraine.
BorisCot@reddit
Even if it wasn't a technical error, Zelensky clearly didn't want to anger Turkey, because at that moment Türkiye was helping Ukraine, and Zelensky was supposed to save the country. In your case, you are harming your country too by spreading Russian propaganda
LaVeriteEstDansLeVin@reddit
I'm spreading Russian propaganda? Lol
Stop talking to me then or you might get brainwashed !
This-Wall-1331@reddit
Russia: invades Ukraine.
Ukraine: fights back and asks Europe for help.
Random Reddit user: how dares Ukraine to want war?
CouchTomato87@reddit
In case you haven’t realized, it’s basically already at war.
Environmental-Bit383@reddit
Europe will have it, since it was so stupid to trust the ruzzibazouk.
abandonedtulpa@reddit
In reality, he’s bringing up other countries so it doesn’t come across as just pushing for Ukraine
lupi64@reddit
What I thought. Israel and Turkey is an issue and maybe this is also why.
DebtCollectorForMami@reddit
Well obviously Ukraine is the Centerpiece of his argument, he’s the leader of Ukraine. It is true though, if Russia decided to invade any country in Europe , without the US they actually do not have the power balance to deter war potential. Also it’s likely without the US in nato, there may be a shift in a new ‘Alliance’ depending on what US decides to create.
morbihann@reddit
Are you hearing yourself ? The EU, even without the UK has 3 times the Russian population. Many time the purchasing power.
Russia is not in a position to have an open war with an rntity like the EU, not even including close allies like UK.
Suspicious-Cap7415@reddit
The problem is that, meybe we have purchasing power, but we don't have much production capacity yet. And replenishing losses, in and outside the EU, could be a problem.They can recover their losses much faster if they are determined to bear them. For now, Russia still has greater production capacity. Ukraine is actually saving us by eliminating Russian equipment.
Because with expensive European equipment, without them, after initial successes at war, as losses mount, Russia could overwhelm us by prolonging the conflict with cheap mass production.
This will obviously change in time, but that's why we really need the time that Ukraine is buying us.
LarsMatijn@reddit
Russia barely has the GDP of the BeNeLux region of Europe.
Their strength is their manpower but as a whole the EU outmatches that as well.
This-Wall-1331@reddit
Do not have what?
The EU has 450 million people, with France having nuclear weapons. If that isn't enough, the UK brings an additional 70 million people and even more nuclear weapons.
Russia has 146 million people and has been unable to defeat a country with 30 million people for four years.
Why are people even afraid of Russia? Russia is SMALL. If anything, you should be afraid of the fact that most EU leaders refuse to criticize Trump, a maniac who has threatened to invade Denmark.
Downtown_Ikea@reddit
They still have a large military, even if it is ineffective and they don't make too much progress invading europe in a hypothetical war they will still inflict so much death and destruction upon the continent.
StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit
Mate, only the EU has like 450 million people, do you think everyone is going to surrender and it's easy to maintain control of a region once occupied? Imagine a galvanized EU, in the face of an enemy.
That's why Zelensky wants to make us part of this conflict (we just invest economically for our own interests) with troops.
The longer the war lasts, the better the situation is for Europe (which is unfortunate for Ukraine).
CaptainRice6@reddit
If war lasts long enough, the EU can mobilize enough men to counter the massive and seasoned Russian army at which point the overwhelming European industrial might would win. But what happens for example if Russia invades the Baltics in a lightning fast campaign without anyone having the time to do something about it? Would the Western European countries be willing to continue the war without US assistance if Russia is willing to make peace with them? I think the EU would throw the Baltics under the bus. I don't see the Russians considering such a gambit without a resolution in Ukraine and tacit US approval but who knows what happens in the future.
quantricko@reddit
And, in your hypothetical scenario, would Turkey save the Baltics?
This-Wall-1331@reddit
Not to mention mutually assured destruction. The moment Russia attacked a EU or NATO country, its main cities would get obliterated by nuclear weapons.
Nano_needle@reddit
lmao if ruzzia decides to invade any EU country their factories are getting instantly obliterated by European long range missiles
Open-Investigator-52@reddit
What missiles? Lmao, they couldn't even destroy one bridge 🤣😂
abandonedtulpa@reddit
Yeah, I get your point, but mentioning Norway is kind of weird. If they wanted in, they’d already be in. And I don’t really see Erdogan being a good fit for the EU either.
EpicStan123@reddit
If Turkiye gets it's shit together I don't really mind them in the EU. He has a ulterior motive but he isn't wrong. In future a bigger EU is better. Ukraine, Turkiye maybe the UK. We have Iceland joining soon.
EvilInGood@reddit
Some parts of Turkey are suitable for EU, some parts are debatable. That's what makes things complicated for us. For an example, Edirne could be in EU with no issues.
EpicStan123@reddit
I mean tbf the same thing can be said about Bulgaria. Just go to a rural area and you'll get a whiplash.
EvilInGood@reddit
I saw Kapitan Andreevo. It was... Interesting.
EpicStan123@reddit
Kapitan Andreevo is fine-ish.
If you end up in the Northwestern Part of the country it gets really bad. The entire region(Vidin Vratsa Montana etc) is the periphery of the periphery kind of situation - poor, underdeveloped and largely abandoned by governments since the 19th century.
YngwieMainstream@reddit
I don't think zelenski really wants a well armed Europe and especially not a well armed Germany, lol. Cause they may want to make a deal with Russia and he cannot fight on two fronts.
oldnr1@reddit
Lol what deal with Russia would he like to make aside from a possible truce? Do you think Ukraine will ally with Russia against the EU? Why would a well armed EU bother Ukraine if they want to join the EU? Complete nonsense bordering on Russian propaganda.
YngwieMainstream@reddit
Are you a child? Do you think Germany-Austria-Hungary will side against Russia whatever happens? Do you not remember the first weeks of the war, or the first months, when Germany was on the fence?
Don't be an idiot.
Few_Face_9224@reddit
Mai bine te-ai abține de la a emite păreri și a face judecăți de valoare, pentru că ai coeficientul de inteligență mai mic decât numărul de la pantof.
YngwieMainstream@reddit
Vezi că te-ai murdărit la gura de judecăți de valoare. Nu mai manca de pe jos lucruri fara sa știi ce sunt.
Few_Face_9224@reddit
În primul comentariu sunt două judecăți de valoare directe, dar probabil, fiind redus mintal, nu știi ce reprezintă o judecată de valoare.
oldnr1@reddit
At least remove the flair if you're gonna post pro Russian stuff, you're embarrassing us in front of the Balkans....
YngwieMainstream@reddit
What's pro-russia? Again, are you an idiot? Who centered Europe's energy policy around Russia? Germany. Who made putin a trillionare? Germany. Who moved shamelessly from being a pro-russia politician to Gazprom? Again, Germany's Schroder. And Austria's Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
So yeah, let's count on Germany for protection, lol.
oldnr1@reddit
You're already firmy in idiot land pall. Germany alone has provided bilions of military aid to Ukraine up to this point. I think its safe to say they're very invested in Ukrainian success. People like you still keeping the magic alive that Russia can win. I think you're speaking from experience when telling me not to be an idiot, couse you certainly are. Probably one of those CG curul 2 anapoi dudes. We will see who is right...
Nano_needle@reddit
dumbest russian bot on this God's green Earth
YngwieMainstream@reddit
Sure, bro, like you''d give a fuck if Romania was invaded. Wasn't Hungary your best friend?
DevilBySmile@reddit
iIiiiiIlIillliIilliI@reddit
What are you talking about, why would a well armed Germany bother Ukraine?
Ok_Cover_2484@reddit
Since when is Zelensky deciding expansion policy, or any policy for that matter, of the EU? Who is he to say who is needed to face Russia? It is beyond outrageous by now.
TwNuOn@reddit
Dude, he doesn't decide, he's just tweeting, expressing his opinion. You might agree or disagree with it, but it's not a crime and definitely not a reason to get angry.
Ok_Cover_2484@reddit
Your take, but it comes across as arrogant and from a position of too much strength. Really hope they win the war and he loses the elections, otherwise you'll remember this and how you thought it's just an opinion.
MoneyLaunderX@reddit
The beggar should shut his mouth. Fuck him.
PhantomO1@reddit
i dont think the eu needs more countries, its already becoming dysfunctional due to too many countries all having absolute veto
the eu needs to abolish the veto and start integrating more; talks about extra members will have to come after these issues are solved, at which point, i would love for all of them to join if they want
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
The veto itself is not a problem, it's just that it should be reserved for the key countries. Could be founding members or top contributors.
There's zero reason an Ireland or Czechia (just two examples) should have a deciding vote, with all due respect.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
lol, no.
(Cyprus would never have joined EU if it wasn't for the veto, or rather threat of the veto, just 1 example).
newbikesong@reddit
Cyprus should not have joined anyway.
Half of the country is either unrecognized or occupied (depending on who you ask.)
PhantomO1@reddit
then maybe it shouldnt have joined
the eu is moving forward, and it needs to integrate
thats impossible without abolishing the veto because requiring consensus for everything with so many countries becomes increasingly hard
im not against having a high consensus requirements, something like 80% of countries agreeing even, but an absolute veto is too much
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
lol.
it's never happening.
PhantomO1@reddit
maybe
im just saying what i think should happen, im not declaring prophesies
you asked what this people in this subreddit think, and i gave you my answer
PersuasiveSalesman@reddit
We complain about Orban's Hungary being a thorn at the side of the EU, but Turkey is openly hostile to fellow member states and the only criteria it meets is geographic proximity. It's a match made in hell.
scutarion@reddit
Like them or not, Turkey is a force to reckon with, second largest army in NATO behind US. They have invested heavily in military tech, especially with drones, and they are building an industry. But it will be difficult to see for example Turkey and Greece fighting side by side unless the very existence of both countries is on the line if they don’t cooperate. In the end he is right, EU countries should join forces, otherwise they are going to get picked apart.
mermigas6@reddit
In the Korean war they fought side by side.
kirdan84@reddit
Are you delusional? Turkey is accepted to NATO in the first place because of Bosfor strait. And what Turkey has to offer militarily vs France and/or UK?
France has aircraft manufactory like Rafals, 80million people, navy and nukes. UK has nukes, navy, versatile military in general and 65 million people. What does Turkey has comparing to that?
Both these countries are significantly stronger than Turkey. And Turkey is strong regional power comparing its neighbours. But dont forget that middle east is full of countries which are broken, failed countries with broken armies.
samvarr@reddit
If you think the UK is stronger conventionally than Turkey you’re delusional lmfao
kirdan84@reddit
You can say whatever, UK has modern arms, stronger navy, better inteligence, strong military tradition and they are proven strong opponent to any enemy they ever had in the last 150 years.
Turkey from Ataturk, in the last 100 years have not been formidable army. In fact, in that timeframe they strongest years are in last 10-15 years.
TXDobber@reddit
Britain has nukes lol
scutarion@reddit
The moment it comes down to nukes, it will be game over for everyone.
samvarr@reddit
I said conventionally
newbikesong@reddit
Turkey also have 85million people, navy and army, manufacturing and econony that is actually in some metrics, half the size of those countries.
And Turkey has better recent military experience.
zbamtastic@reddit
i'm not gonna argue on the rest, but why would you bring populations in this? Turkey has a bigger population than both France and UK, just saying. :D
TXDobber@reddit
Which is why Turkey will never be let in. You think the EU is going to admit a nation of 75 million Muslims in? Especially when the European Parliament is proportional to population? No chance. Unless Turks become atheists, which is not going to happen.
scutarion@reddit
A strong nation like Turkey if it was out of NATO it would be a big big security issue for Europe itself. If US itself is ready to negotiate with them about F35 and defense systems just to not let them align with Russia, is enough for you and everyone else thinking differently to understand the importance and influence they have. To be an ally to someone, does not mean you have to agree on everything. If US leaves NATO, it is in EU interests to keep Turkey close so they can curb Russian influence.
chrstianelson@reddit
Has their very existence been threatened in Korea? In Afghanistan?
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
volunteers.
Greek Turkey relations were "good".
Greece never sent combat troops/soldiers, there.
Spoonerism86@reddit
Turkey is led by a dictator so I don't fucking care what they have, we have enough authoritarian regimes in the EU, we don't need another one.
ekostasy@reddit
How about side by side with a friend?
StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit
Yeah, no thanks on Turkey.
I feel like Joe Kent was spot on, on why the US wants to get out of NATO.
Cristopia@reddit
We could create an ETO, European Treaty Organization, and then Turkiye wouldn't be in EU, the main worry is that Erdogan and EU disagree on a lot of stuff so EU membership isn't a solution.
StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit
I feel like in the next 10 years, Turkey will be involved in a conflict with the Kurds (nothing to base my prediction on other than feelings). I like Turkey, but the US won't support Turkey (remember the coup d'etat against Erdogan?) in that scenario.
We'll see what happens with the geopolitical situation in the region. Hopefully there won't be any expansionist goals by Turkey to be exploited by their enemies.
roxellani@reddit
Let me add some context to shine some light on what you are missing.
Civil war in Turkey is incredibly unlikely. There are many Kurds, but a fraction of them support armed seperatism. TSK is too strong for any guerilla war, hence why PKK was operating out of Iraq and Syria for decades. Right now, political climate is one of peace, on paper Turkey and PKK are not at war anymore, and while Kurds are free to speak up of independence, support among Kurds are quite low for many reasons. Turks and Kurds coexist in peace, and everyone is aware that there is no need to disrupt that. Those who do are too small in numbers to be relevant.
The coup on Erdoğan was staged by Erdoğan himself. Our government was more or less under control by Gülenists, a rival religious cult that put him to power in the first place because he was an image of moderate islamism. Erdoğan realized they were far too powerful, so he only solution was to fake a coup and regard them terrorists, and root out anyone who'd still remain loyal to them.
Turkey has no expansion goals, just lol. Yes we took 1/3rds of Cyprus but in the long run you can see that it resulted in a lasting peace and secterian violence never re-occured in Cyprus. We also don't hold any Syrian territory as we once did. We have military bases remaining in Syria and parts of Iraq (as well as many other countries, mainly in Africa). But no territorial expansion of any kind. There is no internal struggle to legitimize such a claim, as we do not have any territorial claims outside the borders Atatürk has set.
StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit
What I'm trying to say is: You don't know what financing they will receive, who will betray your national interests as you see it and what greed will become your rulers.
What if the partition of Syria comes into the picture? What will happen then in face of this Trojan horse (to be used to dismantle Turkey and to involve you in a losing conflict?).
I'm just posing questions, as everything can change in a matter of years (just look at the political scene in Romania).
Alternative-Tie-4970@reddit
Is he glazing Erdoğan
konkurrenterna@reddit
Doesnt turkey have millions of kurds and arabs? I dont know if you balkaners know about the kurds. But they are albanians on steroids.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
Kurds r liked, here.
Thrusher1337@reddit
And by here, I assume you mean greece specifically, since not every other balkan nation shares that opinion.
yns1899@reddit
especially approximately 5 million gypsy 🫣🫣
_zurik_@reddit
No(r)way?
Avtomati1k@reddit
well, it does make sense. turkey for the army, norway for oil, ukraine for wheat and uk for nostalgia
GRIG2410@reddit
France-shaped elephant in the room:
FantasticQuartet@reddit
He lost me at Türkiye.
EvilInGood@reddit
Why? Greece and Turkey are best friends. Having freedom of travel between two countries would strengthen the relationship.
FantasticQuartet@reddit
Adding Turkey in the EU would make Greece and Cyprus lose a lot of leverage in diplomacy and I'm not at all convinced it would help our countries solve their issues.
EvilInGood@reddit
It is a predicament where Turkey can't join EU because of Cyprus while Cyprus can't join NATO because of Turkey. But once the Cyprus issue gets resolved it should be easier.
Dry-Peak-7230@reddit
TXDobber@reddit
Drake is Turkey
Dry-Peak-7230@reddit
If we start to act like we can enter EU yeah you are correct but for this post it is Ukraine. It is both impossible and inefficient for us to integrate into EU anyway so it is pointless to argue.
Imaginary-Librarian7@reddit
He is taking too much drugs
MrOphicer@reddit
So in the end it will be realy 3 axis, like in 1984? We should start over
HuckleberryUpbeat518@reddit
Zelensky is competing with Trump who is going to drop the biggest bullshit.
CipherTheDude@reddit
how about fuck that shit
DanielDimov@reddit
The best will be to admit Russia - this way the EU will have the strongest nuclear deterent in the whole world.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
unironically.
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
Why not invite the mighty nation of Kazakhstan?
Apart-Persimmon-38@reddit
Controlled by Russia
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
No no, no Russia. This-a my country of Kazakhstan. It locate between Tajikstan, Kyrgyzstan and assholes Uzbekistan.
Top-Tomorrow-8336@reddit
Why do you hate Uzbekistan?
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
I say this because I had a very bad Uzbek attack...they stole my wife, plow...and they touch my horse in a very bad way...he got very depressed.
Botanical_Director@reddit
The French will probably be favorable
Suspicious_Menu_7137@reddit
I actually support Turkey tehehheehe I am sure they would improve stuff for the Kurds aswell
Public_Individual823@reddit
Zelensky please stup
ExpatHist@reddit
Turkey's economic situation is no where near where it needs to be to joining the EU.
There are reforms that would be required that Erdogan will never make.
bobo6u89@reddit
Why not Chad?
GameXGR@reddit
Romania has the same flag and is in the EU, so close enough
Poseidwn@reddit
this guy is on some heavy drugs.
ok he is a marketing mastermind, this is pure pr. he knows well that if eu start looking officially into ukraine and how the place is run, there is not even 5% chance they are ready/elegible for eu partnership of any sort.
europe is just using them to fight off russia and funnel tax payer money into 'defense' loans
Zealousideal_Low9994@reddit
The same Turkey who didn't sanctiom Russia and is now a top 3 trade partner of Russia? lol
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
right, lol.
spezigotten@reddit
He just wants Ukraine in
tiga_94@reddit
I am sure he'd be happy to see UK in the EU as well for many reasons
Orangoo264@reddit
Breaking news: Ukraine’s president pushes for Ukraines self-interest 😱😱
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
sure.
but then, same Zelensky when countries (one obvious example is India) look out for their interests,
"how dare u!".
CucumberWisdom@reddit
Welcome to politics
plamck@reddit
and? you said "sure," but it doesn't look like you agree at all. It makes sense for country a to condemn country b for doing things that harm country a.
Dry_Imagination2535@reddit
Never. The EU is a Christian only party and the whole shit about freedom and human rights are some fairytales
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit
So tired of this nobody ass clown cosplaying as president 🤡
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
right.
Sakaashvili, 2.0 shit.
LostEndimion@reddit
Fuck no we don't need erdogan zombi club. Maybe if Ataturk was here yea I'm in.
Bari_Baqors@reddit
Oh, yeah, give all of em veto too! /s
Sorry, the EU gotta reform first, kick out Hungary from the club, and maybe do something fucking real!
Yeah, its definitely a good idea to give fucking Turkey a veto. Definitely /s
Urayami@reddit
Thnx we have our own problems 😅
Unfair-Frame9096@reddit
Ukraine can join any time after 2050. Balkans countries deserve it more, have been waiting longer and have made many more reforms. Plus, they have always been Europe while the same can't be said about Ukraine.
This-Wall-1331@reddit
Why would we accept an "Hungary" that has 86 million people?
Elgecko123@reddit
If we have turkey we won’t be hungary anymore
palladium2@reddit
The UK, Ukraine, Turkey and....Norway? Am I missing something here?
ThunderEagle222@reddit
Norway is not part of the EU.
palladium2@reddit
Their army is weak.
Botanical_Director@reddit
They have good equipements, their navy is really not bad and they can be usefull against Russia in their north operation especially since they are so close to Murmansk.
Forward-Rub-8187@reddit
He is a good manipulator.
Botanical_Director@reddit
His only job right now is to not loose the war, of course he's going to say anything to that effect.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
well,
he's a "experienced" comedian.
(a clown, some would say).
morbihann@reddit
EU is not free buffet.
You dont get in just because. The EU has had several questionable enlargements and yes I include Bulgaria too.
dobik@reddit
don't think the EU needs to expand much further. We already have three times the population of Russia and are fully capable of defending ourselves; we just lack organization and funding. What we really need is to get our shit together and expand our military industry to become completely self-sufficient.
Each country should specialize in specific areas so that, collectively, we can produce all our own hardware-from knives and jeeps to planes, missiles, satellites, and even nuclear ICBMs. We should not be dependent on any other nation for parts or shipments.
Currently, Russia is the only real threat to the EU. Looking at the situation in Ukraine, I doubt they would be capable of taking even the Baltic states. Aside from Russia, the EU is safe - but only if we have all our production and resources fully secured.
Beautiful-Dish-6275@reddit
That is very hard, every country wants to be the military producer and have everybody eose buy from them, right now its the french and they had a fallout with the Germans over the new jet fighter they were collabing on.
dobik@reddit
True. But rather we buy from ourselves and subside the military or be dependent on the USA. I think military and energy security should not be debated. Countries should cut the social programs spending and divert the money into energy and military security.
BissmarkMC@reddit
No, we just need the mighty forces of Montenegro!
sqjam@reddit
Most def no!
We do not need another dictator in EU
Botanical_Director@reddit
I think this is politicall speach to attract sympathy from the listed countries, I think it's bullshit but I don't blame him for it, it is the situation he's been put in sadly
RaviDrone@reddit
Why not Egypt, Japan.
Beautiful-Dish-6275@reddit
He didnt mention our bosnian bros
Tenchi_Muyo1@reddit
EU should accept Lebanon
krsCarrots@reddit
Too much wodka
Primary-Dust-3091@reddit
Lol
rawarg@reddit
As a Turk I dont want Türkiye to join EU at all. OECD is mlre than enough..
hzv420@reddit
Yeah we not gonna fight your wars moron
Dear_Wrongdoer7271@reddit
Absolutely yes.
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
I don't really understand his point - he's saying it's entirely about the EU, then mentions that the UK and Turkey (both NATO members) are both fairly strong.
Surely that's contradictory
Accomplished-Tap-172@reddit
Come on.. why not invite all 200+ countries.
Born-Till-1738@reddit
Add Singapore pls