What will it take for major brands to ship computers with Linux?
Posted by ijwgwh@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 45 comments
I don't think it will actually be a real "year of Linux" until a major brand like Dell, Asus, HP, etc ships machines with Linux and they end up in physical shelves. What will it take for that to start happening? We already see governments like China and Russia pretty much shunning Windows, but now that Western economies like France are making the move to Linux, at least in government, will that be enough of a market for manufacturers to ship Linux?
Ancillary question: when they do, do you think they will all coverage on a specific distro (say Dell, Asus and HP all shipping Ubuntu), will they pick and choose (say Dell ships Fedora, HP ships Ubuntu and Dell ships Manjaro) will they give folks a choice, or (knock on wood) will they make their own bespoke distros?
npaladin2000@reddit
It already happens. Granted on a limited basis but you can order a Thinkpad with Linux pre-installed. Some Dell models too. And of course there's System76 and Tuxedo. But I think you mean being able to pick one up in BestBuy or something, and it's not in enough demand for that yet.
ijwgwh@reddit (OP)
Yeah the store appearance is what I'm getting at. Didn't know they made them already, but joe mainstream isn't going to scour the Internet for a Linux machine, they'll walk into a store and pick
johncate73@reddit
Mainstream doesn't want Linux to begin with. Those who want it know how and where to get it.
JamzTyson@reddit
If "the year of the Linux Desktop" ever happens, it may pose an existential risk to Linux as we know it. My concern is that mainstream Linux desktop then collapses into a proprietary-controlled derivative that kills open source Linux, much like the evolution of Android on mobile.
Bal79@reddit
A commercial organisation with deep pockets who build a Linux system not too dissimilar to apple does within macOS.
fleeter17@reddit
Pretty sure this is already a thing homie
KnowZeroX@reddit
It isn't, they said "physical shelves". Yes some oems have linux options, we have went from linux only on some corporate pcs to linux on some consumer pcs hidden on secret pages to now linux being sold publicly on the internet side by side with windows (and now eligible for promotions)
But it still hasn't hit the point of physical stores which is a crucial step, while yes these days people buy from the internet more than anything, availability in large local stores means people can actually try it.
natermer@reddit
ChromeOS is pretty commonly sold in stores.
It is based on Gentoo as far as I know. Asus sells those in stores sometimes.
As far as "Dell, Asus, HP" goes.
Both Dell and HP ship Linux preinstalled on systems. Selling "big" Linux workstations and developer laptops is reasonably big business for them. Used in a handful of industries. They are not consumer oriented though. Typically businesses lease those so they order them through their suppliers.
I wonder how many people actually go to stores anymore to buy laptops.
KnowZeroX@reddit
Yes, while chromeos isn't gnu/linux, it is linux and despite being crap hardware and a browser launcher, limited country availability, despite that, chromeos is the #1 desktop linux distro in terms of marketshare.
That shows exactly how big of an impact being available for people to try is. Albeit to be fair chromeos also cheats a bit through google making tools for easy school management as many schools have at best 1 person to manage all the tech, if not 0.
Again, the issue of stores isn't about if people will buy them in stores. The issue is people need to see and try them in stores regardless if they ultimately end up buying them online. While saving maybe 25 bucks on a windows license can make people interested, they are still ultimately buying a computer that can cost 1k or more. So many people don't want to risk it. I know people who pay Dell $100 to preinstall MS office on their pc despite them having dozens of ms office licenses from previous pcs they can move.
trying something in store can make people more comfortable with buying it regardless where they will ultimately buy it from
LvS@reddit
You mean like android, where they all ship their own ad-infested launcher?
Apprehensive_Milk520@reddit
Think I'm missing something here. If the concern is "try before you buy", then why don't potential customers just download a vm of any given GNU/Linux distro to try? You can obtain pre-built vms - and it's not exactly difficult to install VirtualBox on Windows and add a pre-built vm to it. They can even just try GNU/Linux with a live ISO images ripped to DVD or USB and boot it on their existing computers so they can play with it. Or do the same in VirtualBox. Once people explore different GNU/Linux distros and desktop environments, they will have a fair idea if it's for them or not, and/or which desktop environment appeals most to them. Then they can take the leap and order a machine online with GNU/Linux pre-installed.
Although, most companies which sell desktops and laptops with pre-installed GNU/Linux will cost way more, from what I've seen, than any budget Windows machine. So Windows defectors are likely to balk at the price, especially for something with which they are unfamiliar or a novice with at best.
Anyway, I believe if we are talking about people who will expect actual physical support for a GNU/Linux desktop or laptop from the brick-and-mortar where it was purchased? Hmmm. Really don't have a warm and fuzzy about that. Not likely to find highly skilled GNU/Linux techs working at the local big box store. Regardless how "user friendly" we perceive GNU/Linux to be these days, it's still a foreign concept to Windows users.
Then there's everything else that goes beyond just the computer itself, like getting weird cheap quirky peripherals to work... you know the drill...
LvS@reddit
How many Android VMs have you downloaded and tried before you bought a new phone?
MatchingTurret@reddit
ijwgwh@reddit (OP)
But in stores? Like walk in to best buy, see a Linux computer
General_Alfalfa6339@reddit
I honestly don’t know anyone under sixty years old who would go into a store to get a laptop.
KnowZeroX@reddit
It isn't about whether they will buy it at the store or not, it is about them not knowing what in the world linux is or thinking linux is only for tech people.
Many large stores have display centers for pcs where people can try it. Which would go a long way towards people giving it a shot if they see it in person, regardless of if they plan to buy it in the store or online.
General_Alfalfa6339@reddit
Stores don’t have the room or desire to stock that much. They aren’t going to roll the dice and stock it in hopes someone feels like converting that day.
KnowZeroX@reddit
Of course not, they put up what they want to sell. Often times stuff oems give them discounts on or etc.
You do see these stores stock chromebooks, so it isn't impossible for them to put up linux pcs. Most likely we will see them if Valve starts pushing SteamOS to oems.
Normal_Usual7367@reddit
I saw this happening in Romania. Most laptops that don't come with Windows preinstalled have Ubuntu on them. Although, I think only the one for showcase have them, not the ones in the back unopened.
MatchingTurret@reddit
OEMs made a deal with MS to only offer computers with an OS pre-installed to prevent piracy. That's why you can see laptops with 128GB memory coming with FreeDOS...
MatchingTurret@reddit
Why? Why would you do that? I haven't bought a laptop in a store this century.
blessedskullz@reddit
I saw some Nvidia ai computer with ubuntu at microcenter for like $4000.
Boomer_Nurgle@reddit
There's probably no demand for it. Most people I know buy their hardware online and I imagine the people buying it in person aren't the people that would want Linux.
Gizmuth@reddit
Respectfully the market for that does not exist yet, maybe it's getting close but that seems like shooting yourself in the foot as a business and would likely increase cost and lower profits. Slowly but surely Linux is picking up mainstream appeal but it's very slow still
Salt_Reputation1869@reddit
I bought an HP Dev One and I still use it every day.
Klowner@reddit
Dell has been selling Linux desktops for years?
ijwgwh@reddit (OP)
But in stores? Like walk in to best buy, see a Linux computer
Yupsec@reddit
Why though?
KnowZeroX@reddit
I think it needs to be closer to 10%, or if Valve starts promoting SteamOS to other manufacturers (maybe giving them % commission of steam orders)
onefish2@reddit
I bought two Dell XPS 13 9310 from Dell in 2020 with Ubuntu and it came with some Dell specific stuff. Even Dell repos. I have been running Arch and Debian sid on it for a few years now. It's an absolutely fantastic laptop for Linux
Tuxedo Computers ships with Linux. System76 ships with their Linux distro.
Lenovo can be ordered with Linux.
There is interest from enthusiast like us but for the general home user, no, not at all.
Fuck... most people have no clue what OS is on the mobile phone in their pocket, on their PC, what car make and model they drive etc, etc, etc
And you want people to want to have Linux on their computers???
Zealousideal_Hawk791@reddit
Most people I know can look at the label on their monitor and tell you exactly what brand computer they are using. Some can even read the splash screen when they turn on their computer and tell you it is running Windows. Mine has a Z the mark of Zoro.
Psionikus@reddit
Excellent consumer support, including the ~100bn USD per year cottage industry of support for the various programs made by ISVs. Basically multiply steam by about ten. Until grandma can get help with the two-factor and the solution is competitive with offerings born from Microsoft land, grandma isn't using Linux.
Zealousideal_Hawk791@reddit
I sold a Zorin desktop to a grandma about 8 years ago. She called me both times she had a problem. The last time, a couple months ago, I told her what to do to fix it, over the phone. And now being a grandpa myself, with a 38 year old grandson, I need help fixing my Zorin desktop. Finally decided to give up on Windows 11.
ijwgwh@reddit (OP)
Exactly
BranchLatter4294@reddit
Dell and HP have been shipping Linux computers for a long time. Not sure about Asus but would be surprised if they didn't as well.
When I need a new computer I usually get a Dell with Linux installed. No issues so far.
kurdo_kolene@reddit
Asus has some linux tools, to make their laptops work better with it. Hope they will soon start offering the option of pre-installed.
ijwgwh@reddit (OP)
But in stores? Like walk in to best buy, see a Linux computer
BranchLatter4294@reddit
I have no idea. Most of the Best Buys around here have closed. I don't want to buy an off the shelf configuration, so I always just have mine delivered.
DoubleOwl7777@reddit
thats a thing already. you can buy a lenovo or dell or i think hp with ubuntu.
CIS_Professor@reddit
Ummm... They already do.
ijwgwh@reddit (OP)
Are they in physical stores?
CIS_Professor@reddit
Absolutely.
In my area, I can just to to Best Buy and pick one up.
IEVTAM@reddit
Tuxedo Computers, frame work, system76
doc_willis@reddit
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/scr/desktops/appref=ubuntu-linux-os
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/tech-takes/hp-dev-one-developer-linux-laptop-review
inbetween-genders@reddit
If you make tons of money with it...they will come.