Why is the railway network so underdeveloped in the Balkans?
Posted by TurkOmbre@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 70 comments
Railways in Western Europe are very developed, with a much denser network and high-speed trains, while in the Balkans they are clearly lagging behind. There are almost no major projects to improve or modernize the lines.
The only Balkan country that stands out from this weakness is Turkey which, not surprisingly, is probably the least “Balkan” of the Balkan countries. It already has a relatively advanced railway network, with high-speed trains and several projects underway. Even so, as a Turkish person, I still find the railway system insufficient: it’s quite shameful that some of the most touristic cities in the country (and in the world), such as Antalya or Muğla, are still not connected by rail.
In the Balkans, rail transport still seems to be underestimated, both for freight and passenger travel, even though it is one of the most effective ways to connect an entire territory.
In contrast, in some countries, railways are subsidized by the state to maintain connections between cities, even when they are not profitable. It’s a strategic choice, because without it, some regions would quickly become isolated.
A large part of the Balkans is mountainous and difficult to access, and not everyone owns a car. A well-developed railway network would be especially useful in countries like Montenegro, Bosnia, or Albania. On top of that, these regions are very beautiful, so rail transport could also become a real asset for tourism.
So in your opinion, why are Balkan countries still not developing their railway networks more?
branimir2208@reddit
Poverty and communism
LibertyChecked28@reddit
99% of those rail lines ware build by the communists, lmao.
branimir2208@reddit
I do not know about Bulgaria but in Yugoslavia they didn't.
pinkman-alb@reddit
Ottoman empire started the industrial revolution too late and unevenly compared to say the Habsbourgs
7elevenses@reddit
First, this map isn't a good illustration of railway density, it's missing many lines, including major ones, both in the Balkans and elsewhere.
Second, the mountainous terrain is a large part of the reason. It also make roads expensive, but railways are even more sensitive to height differences, and require even more tunnels and bridges to be built than roads.
Third, the low population with large distances between dispersed population centers in branching valleys makes railways less economical and less useful in general, and the destruction of bus networks since the 1990s has made railways even less usable for most population.
And fourth and worst, since the 1990s, Balkan countries have invested all their money in building roads and highways and buying (overwhelmingly imported) cars. There's a lot of sunk cost there, and it makes it hard to snap out of the vicious circle of road building and car dependency fueling demand for more roads fueling more car dependency.
NightZT@reddit
What's often the case in Austria is that regional lines get reduced intervalls due to cost cutting which leads to less people using them because it gets less practical. Then the line gets replaced by a bus because less passangers but the bus is much slower than the train so even less passangers. In the end the bus line gets shut down. Is something similar happening in slovenia as well?
no_hay_dinero@reddit
actually in Croatia now it kinda happens but in oposite direction, since roads are kinda finished except for couple of very expensive add on or improvement projects which are being planned or built. There are a couple of regional railways being refurbished and bus lines are mostly okay.
NightZT@reddit
That's very good to hear, I've read about those plans and they seem very promising. I think our problem is that almost all the budget for railways gets spend on the fancy high speed lines connecting to other countries or large urban areas while the regional lines are the bad sheep and get killed to finance those projects. Also politicians just act strange, all the stops of my closest regional line were renovated, got new signage, new platforms etc. and after the renovation was done they closed the line permanently
no_hay_dinero@reddit
to be clear croatian railways are BAD, so bad that there are several lines that had shorter travel time in Austro-Hungarian Monarchy bad... but things are improving sort of
8NkB8@reddit
The map is missing historical railroads in Albania and southern Greece/Peloponnese, and probably others as well.
The main culprit is geography and lack of investment capital.
Failed_General@reddit
Sadly the peloponnese network, other than the under construction patras line is as dead as it gets from 2011 due to the crisis and comical amounts of corruption on the now dead state rail company
NoBluejay4723@reddit
Where did you get the map? Missing many lines
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
We can do this with just about anything lol
Why is _________ so underdeveloped in the Balkans?
Take your pick. Railway, infrastructure, politics, healthcare, logistics, technology, etc.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Yes, but the weakness of the Balkan railway network is truly an endemic problem. Many of the problems that exist in the Balkans also exist in Turkey, but when you look closely at the map, you clearly see that the Balkans stand out due to their weak railway network.
OmeletteDuFromage95@reddit
Right, I don't disagree with you. What I'm saying is that the Ballans are generally fairly underdeveloped compared to other European nations and honestly I think it's moreso to do with corruption and misalocation of resources than anything else.
LittleBigBaws@reddit
Eurovision *
Substantial-One1934@reddit
Not always had the same position. For a pity the change of the regime, brought as good as bed things.
NoSync22@reddit
There used to be a lot more in areas which were under the Habsburg. Vojvodina had a very developed network back then, for example, but lots happened since.
Legitimate_Kick_5628@reddit
Mountains and hate against one another
jschundpeter@reddit
there are also a handful of mountains in the center of europe
NikobasNiko@reddit
Because we get bombed all the time by cowards.
Kreol1q1q@reddit
Rail is expensive. Especially, very, very expensive in mountainous terrain with a lot of height variance. It makes sense when connecting large population centers, when a country has multiple of those. It also makes sense for transporting goods between manufacturing hubs.
The Balkans are poor. The Balkans are very mountainous. Nearly ever Balkan state is small and overcentralized with just one or at best two very large population centers. There’s not much manufacturing left in the Balkans, or that many extracted resources to transport.
coleto22@reddit
The Bulgaria railroad map is simply not true. We have a lot more lines and connections than shown here.
We are currently making new lines, as everywhere this is slow and expensive.
cameliap@reddit
I agree, it is not true. For example, this map shows a connection between Sofia and Nis, which simply doesn't exist any more.
SantisimaTrinidad550@reddit
Obviously its only showing major connections.
Germany & France for example both have roughly 30.000km of railroads.
SoulEkko@reddit
Romania has 10.000 km of railroads as well. I think by "underdeveloped" they meant High Speed Railways, since the map shows HSR lines.
justsamo@reddit
It’s a map of mainline railways, by nature it doesn’t include branch lines because the map would be unreadable.
7elevenses@reddit
It's also missing many main lines. It's not entirely clear what the criterion for inclusion is.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Is there a high-speed train in Bulgaria?
chaotebg@reddit
Bulgaria is approximately 400km by 250km. We do not need high-speed trains. We need reliable, lower cost trains that travel at 140-160 km/h which is also the current plan with railway infrastructure upgrades.
High-speed trans are great, but also very expensive to build and operate. The cost simply doesn't add up for a country with the size and population number of Bulgaria.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
But Bulgaria also needs better connections to other countries: a high-speed rail line between Sofia and Belgrade, or Sofia and Istanbul, would be a great idea.
zpetar@reddit
Turkey is one big country with large population and more or less one very centralized government. In Balkan every single politician would ask how much is in it for me. Personally for me. Not just for my country, for me.
fusand@reddit
Bulgaria doesn't have HSR and likely never will because the cost of tunnels and viaducts is astronomical for their budget. The country hasn't even finished the main highway linking Sofia and Varna yet, making a multi-billion euro rail project completely unrealistic. Plus, the population density and demand simply don't justify that level of investment.
maximhar@reddit
Not really, we are upgrading some tracks, but they will only be 160km/h after the upgrade, so not really “high speed”.
mvt90@reddit
It is a high speed map (so still not accurate lol)
mvt90@reddit
It’s a high speed railway map (so still not accurate lol)
toastwithoutagun@reddit
My local line suffered a landslide, instead of fixing it, they just abanfoned as they figured it was not worth it.
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
First off, the accuracy of this map leaves a lot to be desired, and second if you think that west Europe and turkey have well developed railway networks you should first sit down and then look at China's railway.
CryptoStef33@reddit
Ottoman rule
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
The first railways during the Ottoman Empire were built in the Balkans, and many projects were discussed in the Balkans before the end of the Ottoman period (like in the Serbia) Your hypothesis doesn't hold water, especially since the heart of the Ottoman Empire was Turkey, and today Turkey is significantly more developed than the Balkans in this area.
CryptoStef33@reddit
Ottoman railway construction in the Balkans (late 19th century) was slow, financially dependent on foreign capital, and focused on strategic connectivity, while Austro-Hungarian development was rapid, systematic, and aimed at economic integration and control. The Ottomans struggled with technical expertise, resulting in fewer, delayed lines, whereas Austro-Hungary built extensive, modernized networks.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Whether it was during the Ottoman period or in the 1980s, the Balkans had a more developed network than Turkey. Today, Turkey is ahead. In my opinion, the Balkans' lag has nothing to do with the Ottoman period.
CryptoStef33@reddit
Turkey, yeah, is ahead; I don't doubt it. It's a major trading hub between West and East.
AcanthocephalaSea410@reddit
They did that and then connected it to the other line. It will be a hassle, but build something more on top of this in 100 years; don't expect everything from us.
Beautiful-Dish-6275@reddit
Low population density that in western Europe.
cleaner007@reddit
Belgrade to Budapest should be yellow line very soon
Ok_Landscape_3587@reddit
Because of the Tuuuurciiii
Various-Barber-7162@reddit
yeah I was looking for this.
Stormrage44@reddit
They didn't have enough Jews to be transported to concentration camps
vukgav@reddit
Because when you're a peripheral province of an empire you simply don't get development priority.
IcyLemon3246@reddit
Cause we bought all the 10 years old cars from west Europe and we taught we stroke a bargain so the governments never built any railways since everyone owns some busted cars…. That’s the most of it….
Spiritual_Pear_5024@reddit
Why it is underdeveloped? Because we can afford cars and gas….
baxulax@reddit
It costs money
jaleach@reddit
You'd think the EU would be sending funds to upgrade the railroads in the member states. Or matching funds, however they do it. They should have an interest in improving transportation and moving resources via rail in that area. Bosnia and Serbia aren't in the EU, so they wouldn't get anything. Albania isn't either, but I heard they're getting close.
Substantial-One1934@reddit
It was developed well before the change to democracy, it was neglected for the bus transport and lack of money and care
Motostivuitorist@reddit
Here’s a natural English translation:
From what I can tell, for Romania only the international routes are shown — the connections with neighboring countries. In reality, Romania has a much more developed railway network. The fact that the tracks and stations haven’t been repaired or modernized for many years is another issue — corruption, neglect, etc. However, the railway network itself is far more extensive than what’s shown there.
criztu@reddit
Rome was once the wealthiest place in Europe.
But then Constantine the Great made Constantinople the capital of the Roman empire.
Constantinople controlled the traffic of merchandise between Asia and W.Europe and N.Africa.
Constantinople became very wealthy, everybody wanted its treasures.
Constantinople was in the Balkans.
The Balkans are between Asia and W.Europe.
Barbarians from W.Europe and Asia and N.Africa invaded Constantinople for centuries.
Constantinople was destroyed.
Barbarians from W.Europe observed, and made sure to use their new found advantage to keep the Balkans in chaos, to prevent them from making themselves great again.
danieljamesgillen@reddit
Last time I Got the train in southern Greece it was a bus, did they finally build the actual rail line?
Archaeopteryx111@reddit
Romania has a much more extensive railway line than this map suggests.
seat6105@reddit
Probably because they were poor for so long
SoulEkko@reddit
Radusili@reddit
Corruption Corruption
PreWiBa@reddit
Your map is a bit incomplete, i'd argue that Croatia and Slovenia have decent railway network per se.
I can't speak for Serbia, but Bosnia got a bad deal from Yugoslavia when it comes to railways, or transport infrastructure in general.
The first railway was built by the Ottomans, and then later on, Austria-Hungary built a railway network that was a bit bigger than what we have today.
However, it was built on a narrow gauge system, so in the aftermath of the Second World War, it had to be updated - think of tunnels needing to get bigger, new tracks...
Instead of doing that, the Yugoslav state just killed most of the railways and built 2-3 railways that go through the Bosna and Neretva Valley and some that can be used to connect the big industrial base in the northern part of the country.
However, most of it was abandoned and left to rot, they are entire villages that died in the 60s and 70s when the railway was abandoned there and the villages were basically cut off from the world.
Today, most politicians don't care about the railway network, and i'd argue it's the same for a big chunk of the population.
But in general, from an economic standpoint, it doesn't make sense to built a very dense railway system in a country that has both a very rough geopgrahy and a very low population density.
I'd argue about 70% of the country lives in five regions: Bosna valley, the Neretva Valley, the Tuzla basin, and Greater areas of Banja Luka and Mostar. Any projects that goes beyond that is very very expensive, and they are bigger priorities at the moment.
PreWiBa@reddit
Bosnia also has a much more extensive railway system than in your picture, albeit even then it's coverage is mediocre at best.
nefewel@reddit
If you are just going off this map you should know it's pretty much shit since it only shows somewhat random railways instead of having an objective criteria of what it shows and what not.
RevolutionaryFeed259@reddit
Mountains and money. Making railways in European Plain, Pannonia, Po valley or other such places is easy and cheap. Making it up in the mountains is hard and expensive. If you have coffers of Switzerland and the like, you can invest in it, but if you don't, you're stuck with what you have. Until infinite money glitch is uncovered around here, we can play only the cards that was dealt to us.
Happy-Hour88@reddit
In Bulgaria the lobby of the bus transport companies has big connections in the parliament, while the railway company is state-owned.
It's really painful to only have one stop for a break and WC in Veliko Tarnovo going from Sofia to Varna and back. The train is better suited for such big distances as you can stand up, walk around at most times. It's just that the train is too slow.
I agree, we need to do more. It's a shame I have to use a damn bus to go to Belgrade and Central Europe or Thessaloniki. I think in the commie era at least it was possible to go to Belgrade and further to Budapest and Vienna by train. Nowadays one can only buy an international ticket to Bucharest, Craiova and Istanbul and that's it. Greece and the Western Balkans are not currently connected to Bulgaria by an international line. I know there's an Istanbul - Vienna train but you cannot take it from Bulgaria.
vangos77@reddit
Money.
NoReportedTaxes@reddit
Albania used to have a network. Now its a mostly dicontiniued mess.
They are trying to rebuild one lane but it's taking ages.
For your question: Balkans are rocky and sparsly populated. This means the system its more expensive(tunnels, bridges, rubble safetly) and less effective because of lack of people. Only
MaxDrexler@reddit
Due to hostile policy towards each other