Why do you think so many people have children when they are struggling to get by financially?

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AudioLlama@reddit

The idea that humans should be priced out of having one of the most basic things in life by capitalism is utterly repugnant, and I say this as someone who absolutely does not want children. It's utterly dystopian that only the rich should be allowed reproduction or the joy of having children.

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QuirkyFrenchLassie@reddit

Given what the others are commenting on this post, I'd hold on to your karma because it might well take a hit.

I do agree with you. And the fact that folks here don't means this dystopian like system is clearly working. Brainwashing for the win.

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crooked_magpie@reddit

Is that what people are saying though? People aren’t saying you’re not allowed if youre not rich, they’re saying get financially stable first, so that their kids don’t suffer. I don’t think kids should be just for the rich, but I do think people who have no income and are struggling to keep the electric on, shouldn’t be planning more kids at that time. Get yourself in a better financial situation first, so that your family doesn’t suffer.

That is fair for people to say and isn’t dystopian. It’s a basic right to a safe and happy home. If you see how many kids are in care because their parents couldn’t give them the life they deserved you’d probably support the view of holding off til you can support your existing kids first, before adding more to the household.

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ReddereDonum@reddit

To be fair I think the point is, this is a choice we are making. If we really wanted to we could reorganise society to support children better so they don't suffer. If the government has 12 billion for PPE that was simply thrown in the incinerator it shows there is money if we really prioritise finding it. We just don't.

Biology doesn't care about the economy. My friends were not financially secure until their late early to mid thirties.

Some are now struggling a lot with fertility.

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crooked_magpie@reddit

I get what you’re saying but that is the society we live in. I put off having kids til my 30s too, because that is when it was financially viable for us to do so. Would we liked to have had ours earlier? Sure, but we didn’t want to struggle. My husband was on the poorer side growing up and didn’t want that struggle for himself or for our own children. And I wouldn’t want a child to miss out on what I experienced, because I had kids before I could afford them.

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LambonaHam@reddit

That doesn't fix the issue though. Giving envelopes of cash to parents doesn't build schools, and dentists or doctors.

Society should work for the benefit of everyone, not just those who choose to reproduce and force their decisions on everyone else.

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BakedGoods_101@reddit

right, like ask any kid who had to grow in poverty which generally leads to many types of neglect if they are happy their parents didn't let capitalism change their minds about having them

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Iveneverbeenbanned@reddit

it's complicated though because what if you see no exit from your financial situation that's kind of bad? Imo the situation should be that people can have as many kids as they want and then society as a whole guarantees the kids grow up in a good environment- we need birthrates to go up from what they are now so ideally having kids should be rewarded

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crooked_magpie@reddit

I think this is nice in theory. But I think the reality is somewhat different. If you talk to kids from poor backgrounds they often describe being worried when they’d eat next, cause there wasn’t enough to go around. They mention how they’d have to wear 3 sets of clothes to bed as their parents couldn’t afford to heat the house. They often dont describe this as “it was tough but we managed”. They generally say, I don’t know why my parents had more kids when they couldn’t even look after me.

I think you can be as well intentioned as you like, but doesn’t mean you should have kids just cause you want them. Kids deserve a happy healthy home. They shouldn’t be scared of when they’d eat next or when they can get clean, cause the water has been cut off again.

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Iveneverbeenbanned@reddit

ok that's fair i guess i wasn't thinking of a situation this extreme - it is bad to just continually have a lot of kids if you can't support them but it's also a bit sad to imagine many people only having 1 or no kids when they'd want more just because they can't afford it. I also think the ethics of bringing people into existence is kind of weird though and I don't think it's always as clear cut as parents having done something wrong by having a kid when they don't feel fully financially secure

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DarthKaboose@reddit

Agree with this, and also financial situations can change. We were doing well when I was pregnant with our third child. Stable jobs, enough discretionary to be comfortable, stayed put in our older house in a not-so-great area rather than upgrading to keep mortgage low. I left my workplace as the environment became toxic, thinking we’d make some adjustments and be fine, then my husband’s hours got severely reduced. I think we worked out we would have had £60 left each week after mortgage and bills, not even enough for a food shop. It was a real ‘oh shit, we have a baby on the way, what on earth are we going to do,’ moment. Luckily someone in my network was hiring and didn’t care that I was pregnant as she just needed dependable help and needed it quickly, and by the time baby was due, my husband’s hours were back to normal. But man it was scary, a real eye-opener to how fast circumstances can change.

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LambonaHam@reddit

It's not brainwashing , it's just basic critical thinking.

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Successful_Buy3825@reddit

You know karma doesn’t actually do anything, right?

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Derries_bluestack@reddit

I don't necessarily think you need to be rich. But due to the cost of living, if low earners, then it requires two working parents and some savings to get through the baby years. So not rich, but parents with incomes and a home.

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Squeak_Stormborn@reddit

In many parts of the world, including most of America and the UK, you do need to be incredibly well off to be able to own a home and save enough to live comfortably with a child, and then afford to pay for luxuries like special experiences, put them through university, and pay for their driving.

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crooked_magpie@reddit

I don’t know about incredibly well off. But comfortable. You need to have a good income for sure. I suppose it depends what incredibly well off means to each person to be fair.

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mononoke2024@reddit

It’s not capitalism. It’s common sense. It’s never a good idea to have kids when you can’t afford to give them a decent life. One should not rely on the society (ie taxpayers) to finance their desire to reproduce. This is such a first world problem.

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sixtydegr33@reddit

I couldn't have said it better myself. Societies, particularly rich ones, should prioritise people having children - or should I say prioritise children above anything else.

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

Um, what do you mean by that though? People should be enabled and supported to have children if they want them, not pressured or punished if they don't!

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jay_bee_95@reddit

I'm reading it as society should support all children regardless of their parents financial position and not that we should pass any judgement on whether adults do or don't want to have children

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LambonaHam@reddit

We 100% should be judging people who choose to have children.

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LongBeakedSnipe@reddit

They are saying to demographically encourage having children. Without mentioning authoritarian policies, no reason to think that they would want that.

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LambonaHam@reddit

We absolutely should not be prioritising having children. We should be prioritising quality of life for those who are already here, not encouraging people to make more people.

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maersyl@reddit

I’m neither here nor there on the whole have kids thing but you’re bang on. A society that doesn’t support or make it more capable for people to have children is absolutely ridiculous.

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PharahSupporter@reddit

Everyone is entitled to have a child, the issue is when one simply cannot afford it and the rest of society ends up picking up the tab through benefits etc. That is unfair on others and unfair on the child themselves.

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LambonaHam@reddit

Exactly. Which is worse, telling people not to reproduce, or forcing society to pick up after your terrible decisions?

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LambonaHam@reddit

Not having children you cannot support is not "repugnant". It's basic common sense and decency.

Blaming capitalism is childish. No matter whether you live under capitalism, or a cave hunting for deer and berries, having a child you are ill prepared to support is narcissistic and "repugnant".

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SearchLightsInc@reddit

This and I believe statistically the rich are now, on average, having more children than the poor.

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

Parents shouldn’t have to suffer for the economy. But neither should the children they are bringing life to. Two parents with even minimum wage jobs can provide a fulfilling life for their children, I’m not saying they can’t. I’m referring to parents who are perhaps unemployed, and bringing children onto the earth in these scenarios, which is becoming very common unfortunately.

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pretty_pink_opossum@reddit

I’m referring to parents who are perhaps unemployed, and bringing children onto the earth in these scenarios

The children in that scenario have an incredibly privileged and good standard of living

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

Sorry… Explain further??

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pretty_pink_opossum@reddit

https://www.sos-childrensvillages.org/where-we-help/asia/laos

https://www.unicef.org/protection/children-recruited-by-armed-forces

https://www.unrefugees.org/emergencies/venezuela/

Look at your compliments

"No days out"

"no financial help driving"

"no financial help with university"

These are incredibly privileged complaints

Complaints that most people across the globe wouldn't make and people throughout history would wish they were well enough off that was the challenges they faced

I would much rather complain about mummy not paying for university than I would about not getting to go to primary school because I had to work and walk for water.

I appreciate things haven't been "easy" for you on a personal level but in the the grand scheme anyone in the UK has it pretty good.

It's like hearing Bill Gates complain he's poor because he isn't as rich as Elon Musk

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

I do understand your point. However, I think people have the right to complain about certain things. Just because people are worse off, doesn’t mean you can’t acknowledge another wrongdoing. You could say the same about abuse - telling children who have been mentally abused they are “lucky” because they haven’t dealt with a physically abusive household. There is always worse out there unfortunately, and I’m just trying to bring up something I’m genuinely curious about.

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chocklityclair@reddit

Mummy and Daddy not paying for your driving lessons is not abuse.

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

Never said it was. I provided an extreme example as the comment above also provided an extreme example with kids starving and travelling to get their own water. Don't contribute if you are making false claims on what I’ve said.

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chocklityclair@reddit

Don't push it! Your extreme example also doesn't match the facts. I guess this is your controlling and judgemental nature at work again.

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bills6693@reddit

I think that on balance, bringing kids into the world in the UK even if you have very little is not the worst thing in the world. Life will indeed be much harder for the children than if they had more money ie were working in this example. But as the other person pointed out it is all relative to their peers not to the global norm.

And the alternative is them not having kids which on an individual level is sad and on a societal level is also an issue. On an individual level, given your original post - do you think it’d be better if you hadn’t existed? You had a harder upbringing with less help than your peers but you still have your life. On a societal level, we have a falling birth rate, ageing population, it’s causing lots of issues, those are only going to get worse, and the stopgap is immigration which has its own set of problems. Having more kids is one of the things that can try to alleviate that, and is good for everyone (I mean we could go down a lot of rabbit holes and this isn’t necessarily a universal view but not out there either).

It’s certainly an individual decision if you want to have kids when you have few resources and the sacrifices you and they will make but if the alternative is you don’t have kids and those potential kids never get a shot at life at all, it doesn’t seem the worst thing ever to do. Maybe being a dad myself has changed my opinion on that though.

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pretty_pink_opossum@reddit

I did acknowledge your personal "difficulties"

But you also need to give people a reality check sometimes, no you aren't hard done by because you need to get a job

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

I never said I didn’t want a job? lol. You’ve completely taken my post in the wrong way unfortunately.

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pretty_pink_opossum@reddit

I added an edit to specify that last bit wasn't aimed directly at you.

But it does fit the general vibe of the hardships you faced, having to pay for your own driving lessons, not going to private school, not having uni paid for you, not going on fancy holidays etc

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

I get that.

I also never mentioned feeling a need to go to private school lol.
by mentioning not going on holidays, I meant that this meant NO trips. As in not ever going somewhere else in the UK and seeing any more of the country, and just generally being cooped up in my poor town.
driving and uni are BIG expense prevalent now with the younger generation and the prices are only going up. I could in no way afford a car//lessons//tests when I was younger, this later put me at a disadvantage for finding part time jobs as I couldn’t travel to them out in the country.

What I’m complaining about is my parents CHOICE to not work and not support me or my siblings. I’m not referencing parents who work full time and CANNOT get by. I’m mentioning my very specific case, which is common for a lot of other people.

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pretty_pink_opossum@reddit

So first of all congratulations on getting a job, paying for your own lessons and putting yourself through uni. That's not easy and you deserve a pat on the back for it. (That was fully sincere by the way)

And yes it did put you at a disadvantage compared to someone more privileged than you but those are privileged hardships to have, that's not to take away from you managing to do it for yourself but it's definitely not a good enough reason to stop a child being born.

Its Bill Gates saying he's poor because he isn't as rich as Elon Musk.

I'm not going to speak badly of your parents but experiences don't need to be expensive,. going to the park, pitching a tent outside for the evening (even if it's just a tarp or old blankets), going for walks and just spending time with your kids are all experiences it doesn't need to cost to be an experience.

I also never mentioned feeling a need to go to private school lol

I know you never but does fall on the same category as your other complaints and it did disadvantage you compared to better off children.

If you don't feel you should have been born then you must think most people in the southern hemisphere shouldn't have been born, you must think most people throughout history shouldn't have been born.

I suppose my real question is, are you suicidal?

If you aren't or you haven't always been then doesn't that answer your question?

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AodhanWrites@reddit

Can I ask what age you are? It's just coming across as very bitter toward your own economic situation and strikes me as someone who is young blaming their parents for "forcing them to be born".

Many rich people pay nannies and don't even raise their kids while people in poor economic situations often sacrifice massively just to give their children as much as they can.

It's also our responsibility as a society to help children with their basic needs e.g child benefit payments and free schooling. It used to take a village now it takes a country.

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

I am 20, and not in a bad economic situation anymore. I’m also not saying paying for Nannie’s is morally right, I could make a post about how much I disagree with that too. Both are wrong approaches to supporting your children and there isn’t one of the two “better” than the other.

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LongBeakedSnipe@reddit

Im confused why you think the employment status of an individual is relevant to whether they have children tbh.

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chocklityclair@reddit

Wow. They're both wrong? Imagine so many people doing things in a way you don't approve of. I think te problem here is not that you were poor as a child, but that you have somehow developed an incredibly judgemental attitude and a belief that your opinions are the only ones worth having.

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AodhanWrites@reddit

As a parent I disagree, one is definitely worse than the other.

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chocklityclair@reddit

You don't know how common it is. What statistics are you using to make this judgement?

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Defiant_Ad_4088@reddit

How is it “becoming very common” (with facts and data please)?

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baciahai@reddit

See figure 6.3 for example

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/child-poverty-trends-and-policy-options

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Defiant_Ad_4088@reddit

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you can read, but that graph shows relative child poverty, not unemployed parents who have children. Relative child poverty can happy to parents both in employment and out of it.

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baciahai@reddit

To give you benefit of the doubt that you can read, the comment you were responding to stated "parents who are perhaps unemployed" so the figure fits perfectly well.

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Defiant_Ad_4088@reddit

There’s a second part in that sentence and the concept of sub-text exists.

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Quelly0@reddit

How very 1980s

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MirabellaJean962@reddit

Yes! Very big difference between a working parent duo having 1-2 children, and a single chronically unemployed mother having 4 from multiple sources...

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Defiant_Ad_4088@reddit

I can also invent scenarios that would agree with my point of view.

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Free_Ad7415@reddit

What about the multiples sources (fathers)? Why mention the mother specifically? At least she’s taking care of them

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Loose_Avocado4670@reddit

This. 100%

Having kids just isn't financially feasible for so many reasons for loads of people. I'll name a few

. General cost of living. Many couples are barely getting by, let alone having to feed and provide for another person.

. Maternity pay is £187 a week. Oh, and that's for the 8-9 months, then you're very welcome to take 3 months completely unpaid, which a lot of people can't afford.

. Finding a job that fits around school hours. Work day is 9-5, but school day is 9-3. Otherwise, it's grandparents/friends, which, again, not everyone has or after school club until 6 pm, which is pricey and you have to pay for. School from 8:30 - 6 pm 5 days a week is a lot for a child. They need time to be a kid, yet jobs that fit school hours are gold dust.

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chocklityclair@reddit

No it's not. It's 90% of your salary for 6 weeks, and then £194 (or 90% of your salary, if that's lower!) for the other 33 weeks.

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North-Ruin961@reddit

No one should be ‘priced out’ but no one should be forced to pick up the bill either i.e. the taxpayer

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Dazz316@reddit

While you are right, we can't just be ruled by our hearts and urges. The brain has to come into play and say "I shouldn't have a child". If you aren't in a position to properly care for and provide for a child, you probably shouldn't have one.

As a society, you are completely and utterly correct. But on an individual level, a child deserves a proper chance at food, shelter, everything and regardless of whether the situation of the potential parents is just or not, they shouldn't have that child.

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GooseyDuckDuck@reddit

What utter bullshit, if you can’t afford to comfortably raise a child - please don’t.

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Lorry_Al@reddit

Fine, but you can't say that and complain when child poverty rates go up.

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ACanWontAttitude@reddit

Okay but a lot of families dont have a second child because they cannot afford it. Whereas others can do because they know they will afford it due to the benefits they will recieve.

And dont tell me its rubbish I work in an area where I help these people. I couldnt afford a second child but they can because of the social net they have.

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Lorry_Al@reddit

Fine, but you can't say that and then complain when child poverty rates go up.

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ALA02@reddit

Also capitalism needs kids anyway, especially poor ones - it flourishes best when you have a large pool of broke young people to do the hard labour for low wages. If only rich people have kids, then most of them become the new “poor” because capitalism always needs a poor majority to function.

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IansGotNothingLeft@reddit

I had honestly never considered it this way. God, what a horrible idea. Thank you for the reality check.

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Valuable_Setting_172@reddit

Incredibly Reddit take

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LeopardNeat899@reddit

Tell this to the whole of the Middle East who thought the same. These forums are just soo short sighted.

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questions4all-2022@reddit

Can you explain what happened there?

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gagagagaNope@reddit

The only reason their parents had a place to live, food to eat, clothes to wear and children born in a hostpital and educated was because of taxes levied on 'capitalism'.

The number of ill-educated, indoctrinated kids now squeeling about capitalism on Reddit whilst clutching their iphone that both only exist because of it is beyond pathetic.

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jake_burger@reddit

It’s only one or two generations in a couple of places in the world would could genuinely afford to have children and a high standard of living, and even then there were still poor people.

Everyone else in history and in other poorer countries just got on with it. I’m not saying that’s good I’m just providing a bit of perspective.

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Hame_Impala@reddit

Everyone else in history and in other poorer countries just got on with it. I’m not saying that’s good I’m just providing a bit of perspective.

I think a big thing is changed expectations around raising kids, some of it good and some bad.

Plenty of the people who just "got on with it" often weren't good parents, kids have tough upbringing, would live two or three to a room, and leave school early.

So it's good we don't have that now...but by the same token I think there's sometimes an expectation for parents to constantly entertain their children or give up every aspects of their life for their children to a degree that's unhealthy.

Seen it suggested a while back a lot of kids don't know how to bored now. Growing up wasn't uncommon to go to a family event/family friends home and there wasn't much for you to do, you were just expected to entertain yourself without constantly nagging the adults. I know some parents my age, meanwhile, who barely ever seem to socialise.

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ZestyMonstera@reddit

Conversely, before capitalism people had children to have more hands on the farm or make social bargains... i.e. what their kids could do for them rather than what they could do for their kids. That people are now putting the interests of their potential children first and choosing not to have them if they can't provide for them isn't necessarily due to capitalism, but a shift in how we view life and our responsibilities over it.

Not a fan of capitalism but also not sure it's so simplistic. People in poverty have always had kids and probably always will, it's just more people are now taking into account the quality of life for those children... and the concept of quality of life is constantly developing.

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AodhanWrites@reddit

Thank you! Say it louder for those in the back.

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FiendyFiend@reddit

I don’t think the message is that only rich people can have children, I think it’s the realistic view that people should only have children if they’re working and in a position to financially support themselves and any children as well.

Obviously life is unpredictable and someone could get pregnant while in a fantastic financial position and end up losing their job, partner becomes disabled, all manner of hypotheticals after the child is born, but it’s not unreasonable to question why someone who’s on benefits and never worked would think it’s a good idea to bring multiple children into that situation. The poorest people I know, with the most lacking work history have the most children.

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Phat-Lines@reddit

Well said

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Abject-Hope-1493@reddit

Yeh exactly, what do they want? To go back to only rich people having families, with their servants (that would be us) without a family. The wealth gap is the largest it ever has been, I hate to think of a world we’re only a certain class of people can have a family. Also people are so judgmental, you can have a stable career then get disabled tomorrow. Anything can happen and unless you’re seriously rich you’re at most 6 months away from not being able to afford bills etc.

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Samuraisheep@reddit

Part of it is our dire maternity pay. It's a c.80% paycut for a year for me which is a lot in their economy! Obviously ideally youd save up but who can afford to save that full drop of income especially shortly after having a first child (and then paying nursery bills) if you want a second. Also mad that we'll be fine (I think!) with the day to day once back at work but it'll be a struggle before/after maternity leave.

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

Also firmly child free and completely agree.

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MrMonkeyman79@reddit

Many people feel a pretty strong biological urge to have children, and figure they'll find a way to get by. And in fairness most manage to do just that.

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Illustrious-Divide95@reddit

I get that and it's fair for one or maybe two, but there was an interview with someone on the radio who has 6 children between 2 and 15 and all with complex special needs. She was broke and complaining about the amount of help she gets

I'm a bleeding heart lefty but even I was thinking 'after 2 or 3 kids, no money and special needs for them, at what point is another one or three a good idea?"

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Hame_Impala@reddit

It's difficult because it's typically the way society has functioned for much of human history, and for all the hand-wringing you get about birthrates one reason is the average person actually has become much more sensible on this front.

A big difference now obviously is there's more of an expectation for the state to support families and kids aren't expected to basically be in full-time work by the time they're about 13 or whatever.

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plukhkuk@reddit

I don't know if I agree with this.

I only have one and despite being slightly better off than most, I was clearly able to make a decision that one is enough. That any more children would put me under both mental and financial strain AND would mean I can't offer any additional children the same level of love, care and material support (quality childcare, activities, resources).

It seems to me there is a kind of compulsion some people have to just have more children that is quite selfish in nature.

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Brilliant-Maybe-5672@reddit

Totally agree. We only were able to have one but we were able to give him the best, lots of travel, private education and lots of attention. Hate the old wive's tales about selfish only children.

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NixyPix@reddit

The only child I’m married to (who enjoyed plenty of travel, private education and attention) tells a different story about what it was like. Your experience is not blanket and as the parent you cannot see it from your child’s perspective.

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shin-chan@reddit

I grew up quite poor and I wouldn't trade in my sibling or our incredibly tight bond even if it meant my parents would have been millionaires.

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SituationOk7734@reddit

My mom had 12 and wouldn't have stopped if she didn't have to. She craved something that was completely dependent on her, and when it grew, she ignored it and needed another. I bet there are more people like her, than would admit it.

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ignoranceandapathy42@reddit

I watched a BBC archive video on YouTube recently, titled tenants Vs landlords. There was a lady who was formerly homeless with 12 living children out of 14 and complaining that the house she was given was not good enough. It was admittedly below our standards of living but the fact is this, a healthy replacement population does not come from the well off elites. It's the working poor who have more kids than a rational person can provide for who provdided the growing workforce the welfare state requires.

We previously managed to house a family of 13, now you are complaining about people having 2 or 3 kids. 3 kids is the minimum a family needs to ensure replacement of population as we can't have fractions of a child. Frankly I'd rather more kids from British families who have learned the value of the state rather than more non integrated foreign nationals, but I'll be called an entho nationalist.

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No_Masterpiece_3897@reddit

This is possibly the most unpleasant way to put it, but some people keep trying with the sole aim of getting a 'normal' one.

They might ’love ’ their other children, but they also want a regular child, and sometimes the reasons behind that are just foul.

Things like -they want a "healthy normal kid " to be a bundle of living spare parts for a sick one. Their existence is to be some sort of living tool kit. That is a motive I find so vile I believe it should be illegal to use minors as living donors.

The other is a built in care plan, to take care of the special needs sibling after the parents are gone.

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chocklityclair@reddit

This is about as common as trans athletes in professional sports.

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okiadmit@reddit

But even their normal kids are shit? So what the point??

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360Saturn@reddit

Hard agree, but I can only think such a person was raised in a culture that viewed abortion as morally abhorrent, and possibly contraception the same.

Plenty people walk among us who genuinely believe we have a duty as humans to procreate as many as possible.

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VolcanicBear@reddit

I agree. My wife and I are unable to have children. IVF failed.

It's only when we've been forced to take a step back and accept that regardless of what we do it probably isn't happening, that we've been able to realise that they probably weren't the right choice for us.

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Cynical-R3alist@reddit

Sorry to hear about your difficulties with fertility. As someone currently on year 3 of fertility treatments, with my hope slowly diminishing after each attempt, I’m not a fan of people saying ‘you can adopt!’ I don’t know about you but I feel they belong in 2 separate camps and I hope you and your wife take the time and space you need to grieve your ‘what could have been’ and come out good the other side. Take care of yourselves and be selfish for a bit now, book holidays, eat crap, spend a ridiculous amount on something ridiculous!!

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pibandpob@reddit

I care. I got pregnant easy as pie, but have a daughter who struggled for a loooong time. We all just assume we'll have babies whenever we're ready... until we don't, and that's really hard to come to terms with.

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Brilliant-Maybe-5672@reddit

I hope you don't say 'easy as pie' to your daughter, it's awful. My MIL said 'i never tried to get pregnant, it was just meant to be'. She doesnt speak to me after i told her 'with all due respect i couldn"t give a fuck'

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pibandpob@reddit

Of course I can say that to my daughter. We have a fantastic relationship - I'm not sure that would ve harmed by her knowing I fell pregnant easily?

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sewpants@reddit

My mum got pregnant easily and quickly with both me and myself. I've no idea why I or my sister would have an issue with that.

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pibandpob@reddit

Indeed - thank you. Both of my children were planned, but I fell pregnant pretty much as soon as I'd planned to do so! I don't understand why anyone would consider this an issue.

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Ranger_1302@reddit

Adopt.

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TinyDinosaursz@reddit

Adoptions purpose is to give a child a home, not to give a child to parents. It comes with trauma, as does infertility, and it's not for every person.

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Aglyayepanchin@reddit

Adoption isn’t just to house a child…it is to give them a family and security. Most children in the system do come with trauma and difficulties, namely attachment related difficulties, which require more than simply housing…they do need love and parental figures.

No it’s not for everyone, but it makes sense that people who want to be parents should adopt. Not simply those who have a spare room…

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ManicTonic22@reddit

It doesn’t make sense if those who can’t have biological children see adopted children as “second best” or as a way to mask their grief. Adopted children will have a lot of needs, whether it’s cultural, emotional or trauma related. So it needs to be a deliberate decision for the good of the child and not just as a solution to infertility.

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catmatix@reddit

No, it's to give a child a life. I should know.

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silentv0ices@reddit

It's reddit people are nuts.

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catmatix@reddit

Just bizarre isn't it.

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TinyDinosaursz@reddit

I am also an adoptee boo boo

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catmatix@reddit

Good for you.

You'll know the difference between a 'life' and a 'home' then.

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Adventurous-Idea1473@reddit

adoption shouldn't be a plan B just because you cant have children.

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AlternativeBody1904@reddit

As an adopted child, we'll take what we can get, anything is better than care or fostering. Luckily I was adopted as a baby.

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Adventurous-Idea1473@reddit

probably has higher likelihood of success if the child is a baby..im glad it worked out for you though. but i think people need to consider their intentions/motivations before adopting.

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kmp633@reddit

This is such a baffling take. People pay very little consideration when having their own children, other than following the entirely selfish biological urge to have them, or fucking up and not bothering with contraception. Or combining families together after breakups and new relationships. As a society we think that is completely normal and acceptable. Why do people wanting to adopt need to be on some higher pedestal? Obviously there will be checks and interviews to ensure you're not starting a child labour camp, or just fancy a toddler to dress up for a bit. There are thousands of kids in temporary placements, homes, fosters who get to 18 and get sent out into the world with nothing behind them. We should be encouraging people who clearly want kids but can't have them biologically to consider adoption. There are very few situations less preferable than non-permanant homes for kids growing up.

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TinyDinosaursz@reddit

Because adopted kids have largely disproportionate rates of mental illness and death by suicide.

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pibandpob@reddit

And children raised in LA care have much higher rates of mental health issues and suicide.

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kmp633@reddit

I'm the current climate, yes. Perhaps we could make this better? I'm not saying this can be fixed overnight. But how about we take more of a communal approach to raising kids, rather than "othering" the kids currently in the care system. That stuff sticks.

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Adventurous-Idea1473@reddit

realistically, people are not lining up to adopt the thousands of kids in care homes. they all want babies. who do think would be more appropriate - a couple who understood the trauma of adoption and wanted to provide a stable life for a child or one that tried to have their own but couldnt so resorted to adoption.

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kmp633@reddit

It's entirely possible for two things to be true at the same time. And more likely if we educate and encourage.

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Lady_Marshmallow@reddit

For the love of God, why? There are SO many children in need of a home - we don't need parents having to go through some existential epiphany when choosing whether to adopt; 'Will I do right by the child and give them the best life I can?' Is the ONLY question that needs answering.

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thismyseriousaccount@reddit

Because the child suffers if the parents are dealing dealt with the resentment and grief about not having biological children.

Adopted children are not consolation prizes

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Lady_Marshmallow@reddit

The children are suffering anyway. Nothing about the adoption process is ideal - it's all about mitigating the damage caused by irresponsible people. Perfect is the enemy of good in these scenarios; how many people are out there, not wanting to have their own biological children, wanting to adopt just for altruistic purposes, who have the knowledge and temperament to allow for children with issues who also have sufficient resources to do so?

Simply not enough.

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New_Ask2287@reddit

How many did you adopt?

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Lady_Marshmallow@reddit

None. I don't meet most of that criteria, and I was lucky enough to be able to have bioligical children. What does that have to do with anything?

[-]

Adventurous-Idea1473@reddit

...adoption is trauma and being a good adoptive parent goes beyond the usual 'i really want a baby and i can feed and house it' it can require more work, effort, emotional intelligence etc to ensure the best outcomes for the child. and sorry but people who have exhausted all avenues of having their own biological children probably do just want a biological child and an adoption is not going to fix that. there's also the potential complication of the relationship with the birth family. i know this because i have direct experience.

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NoDeparture3374@reddit

Statements like yours should come with credentials

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Lady_Marshmallow@reddit

So leave the kids in overcrowded group homes then? Is that really a better situation than a loving family who may not be perfect, but truly want to do their best?

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Adventurous-Idea1473@reddit

well the fact that people typically adopt babies kind of shows its not done out of concern for the poor children in the care homes.

care homes are another issue, and the conditions and staff are absolutely shocking in some parts of the country but yes potentially being in a care home or foster home can be better than being some infertile couples plan B.

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banwe11@reddit

Yeah but the point is that adoption can be very challenging (for the parents) compared to having your own children, and it's not necessarily the right choice for everyone. Note I am not saying it is always challenging, just that there is statistically a higher chance of the child having emotional/behavioural/developmental issues and prospective adoptive parents need to accept this.

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Lady_Marshmallow@reddit

Of course - not everyone who can't have their own children will want to take on an adopted child, I'm just saying they shouldn't be turned away simply because they wanted biological kids. They should be able to go through the screening process and potentially be allowed to adopt. It's a different path, but it won't necessarily be the wrong one just because they envisioned something different initially.

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banwe11@reddit

Ok sure. Equally (on a slightly different subject), adoption shouldn't just be seen as an option for those who can't have their own kids - there are lots of fertile folk out there who would make great adoptive parents.

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kmp633@reddit

Exactly. Kids are put into all sorts of weird and wonderful positions when growing up in biological families - families breaking up, new step parents, off to live with grandparents, back again, new step or half siblings. That's all apparently fine. But heaven forbid a couple would want to bring up a kid without the same chromosomes, that'll obviously be a disaster.

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Blue-flash@reddit

I’ve read a lot recently from people who feel traumatised by adoption, and felt that they didn’t belong with their adoptive family. While I realise that adoptive parents will differ as much as biological parents in their skill and emotional availability, I think I feel worried about the possibility of real conflict with an adopted child as they get older.

I’m not in a position to foster or adopt, so this is purely academic. My friends who were adopted, and now in the 40s don’t seem to have poor relationships with their parents at all - but I wonder how the impact of DNA genealogy is changing things.

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BrotherClive@reddit

Fucking great idea. They probably haven't considered that.

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VolcanicBear@reddit

we've been able to realise that they probably weren't the right choice for us.

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OrangeChevron@reddit

I'm sure they've never even heard of or thought about adoption, so glad you're here

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okiadmit@reddit

No one cares

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Suspicious-Case3861@reddit

I'm sorry you couldn't do this. But you can consider adoption.

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MonkeyHamlet@reddit

Wait. No. Really?

What is this A-dop-tion of which you speak?!?

[-]

LucyThought@reddit

Just so you know. This is an inappropriate suggestion.

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IcySetting2024@reddit

Do they?

My cousin said they would figure it out , they have time to make money!

6 years and 2 kids later she is still in the same minimum wage job and her husband hasn’t changed his job either.

She’s still not stressing but he is and they argue everytime she buys them a treat or new clothes he doesn’t feel it’s absolutely necessary

Most ppl I know don’t just materially Jump between salary brackets

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Aggressive_Cream_188@reddit

Do you think the kids changed that. Or would they still be in the sameinim7m wage job now anyway?

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IcySetting2024@reddit

They would still be in the same jobs even without kids.

But they would have less arguments and they wouldn’t have put TWO people on this earth who will soon have to do adult life without any support.

As a compromise I think ppl should stick to one which is more manageable financially.

This is what I did so I can still afford nice things for my son like a holiday abroad a year and extracurricular activities and later on funds his uni etc.

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ManicTonic22@reddit

holidays abroad, and extracurricular activities are nice to have not essential. The majority of the world are not well off, most are working class. Your child would still be able go to uni without you funding it, they’d just have to take a loan out like most people do. It doesn’t mean they had a derived childhood because they can’t keep up with the Jones’. Many of the comments are very classist and sound like they come straight out of eugenics rhetoric. I understand how western governments were able to get away with forcibly sterilising the institutionalised, disabled, Black, brown, and poor white people who they didn’t think were fit to be parents.

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External_Violinist94@reddit

Most of the world absolutely are struggling financially and absolutely do manage just fine. It's not the exception m, it's the norm.

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Doomergeneration@reddit

I think I’m missing that.

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ScreamingDizzBuster@reddit

I missed it too right up until the day my girlfriend gave birth then my god did it kick in.

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kliccit@reddit

Found out my partner is pregnant a couple of weeks ago. Can't lie, its been nothing but stress and arguments since. Im praying that when she does give birth it kicks in.

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ScreamingDizzBuster@reddit

Well I should clarify. All the way up to the birth I was doing the right thing for my girlfriend as you should, very nervous etc. but just could not picture myself as a father.

The birth was emergency cesarean so I wasn't there for it, but when I was invited to wash the baby I felt no emotion at all. All I was thinking was "where should I put my coat" instead of anything else. And she looked alien, like a plucked chicken. It was weird and awkward and I'm sure the nurse thought I was mental.

Then mother and and baby had to stay in the hospital for two nights so I went home, had a kebab and a few beers, thought "fuccccckkkk what have we done?"

Then eventually they were discharged and we brought the baby home and I put her in her chair in front of the front door and took a picture of her, then lifted her over the threshold and brought her in and felt an overwhelming rush of love and protectiveness, then in the madness of the months that followed the feeling solidified and clarified into "I will die for you if I have to". An extraordinary thing that made me realise that I hadn't understood love before then. It's magical.

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Fit-Case-7857@reddit

it wasn’t just the die for them without thought, it was the realisation that I would kill for them without thinking if someone harmed them that got me, I’m not violent by nature, but hurt my kids and I’m prepared to end lives

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ScreamingDizzBuster@reddit

True story: took my baby for her first vaccination. All was well and good, all smiles, chatting to the nurse, hello hello how's your day going, is this your first, bla bla bla, she got out the syringe, then moved the needle towards my baby's arm and the moment she got near her arm, my fist moved to punch the nurse in the face.

I had to physically restrain myself. Like you I'm not violent at all, only been in a couple of fights in my entire life and that was only to defend myself. It was the weirdest fucking thing ever, presumably coming from some deep reptilian instinct, completely beyond rationality or thought.

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mightypup1974@reddit

Hope you don’t mind me butting in but if it doesn’t seem like it does, it isn’t unusual for it to take time to build a connection with a new baby and a lot of new parents beat themselves up about it amidst the exhaustion, filth and stress. Could I recommend you check out r/daddit if you feel like venting?

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Princelysum@reddit

Damn right - don't blame yourself if you don't feel an instant connection to your newborn - I wish someone had told me this. It'll come in time! I appreciate I'm just repeating your comment u/mightypup1974 but I couldn't help myself

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scoringspuds@reddit

God more people need to talk about this. I had no connection to my newborn for around 3 months. Thought I had made a huge mistake but now I couldn’t imagine life without him. I love him so much

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FujiLightstalker@reddit

Agree with this. I was just support crew for the first couple years. Tiring, but then they notice you and all of a sudden you’ve got a new bff. Awesome.

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pretty_pink_opossum@reddit

I've seen a lot of folks grow up very quickly once they had a kid. (i.e it kicked in)

Don't get confused though it's not some magic thing that will just happen, it will still take effort from you, and you will often be stressed and there might be arguments as well but there will be a lot of good times as well.

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justdolife@reddit

It's does kick in straight away it took about 3months in my experience especially for the dad to create a bond. Once it's there it is amazing no amount of money can buy that.

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NarrowOwl4151@reddit

There's nothing missing here. You just don't feel the need to, like lots of us. The world is massively over-populated. There's no shame in not reproducing.

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ManicTonic22@reddit

Overpopulated yet we hear a lot about the declining birth replacement rate in many countries, including here.

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Substantial-Bug-4998@reddit

I do feel like im paying for a lot of unemployed dossers to have kids though.

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jake_burger@reddit

Not being funny but without those children growing up and working, and if you don’t want to have kids or that many, how do you think the country continues into the future?

How do we retire if there are no young people to work to provide us with pensions and care?

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Al89nut@reddit

Do they grow up and work? Isn't there evidence that generational unemployment aka benefits is significant?

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SituationOk7734@reddit

Just from my family alone, out of my 11 siblings, only 2 have ever worked. The rest never plan to.

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No-Jellyfish-177@reddit

Some do but the odds are stacked against them

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MoleWhackSupreme@reddit

The children of lifelong dossers often become lifelong dossers themselves.

It’s dossers all the way down sometimes for generations

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Rose_Of_Sanguine@reddit

And yet the money they receive in benefits is spent in the community, not nestled away in offshore shell accounts.

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No-Jellyfish-177@reddit

And yet that somehow makes it acceptable?

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Final_Flounder9849@reddit

Let’s just import young ‘uns from “abroad” and set ‘em to work down the mines when they’re able to hold a pick axe.

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WoodSteelStone@reddit

Then they get old and need more importing to look after them and so on. Like a massive Ponzi Scheme.

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Prof_Hentai@reddit

Did you reply to the wrong person? I agree with you

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Defiant_Ad_4088@reddit

But when you need support from social support system, like access to the NHS, that’ll be different, right? Notwithstanding the fact you’re just saying things with no data or facts.

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Substantial-Bug-4998@reddit

Sure...its anecdotal but 3 doors down from me my neighbour has 7 children...7! They have never worked in the 9 years we have been here and live in an £900k house.

My wife and I however have paid 90 grand in tax last year and deem that we cannot afford to have kids.

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JohnLennonsNotDead@reddit

Do you feel the same way about the billions and billions of tax shipped offshore?

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will0593@reddit

No because those billionaires are deserving

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Full-Suggestion-1320@reddit

Really some of the billionaires are descended from the very worst people in our countries history and have inherited the wealth and connections that got them started.

Those children in poverty given a better start and education would do well, some of them have already made incredible contributions to our society becoming great scholars, scientists, educators etc. We also shouldn't forget we need people with a wide variety of skills and professions for a functional society.

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CicadaSlight7603@reddit

Yes I’ve volunteered with really clever kids from deprived backgrounds. Often the parents are long term unemployed or very ill and on disability benefits. The benefits the family receive mean the kids I volunteer with go to school with a full stomach, have a separate room from their siblings, or share with only one other, so they can study in the evenings, the benefits help care for their parents so my kids don’t always have to leave school halfway through the day to help their parents. With a bit more help and support from charity and mentors the kids I mentor end up studying to be doctors and nurses and scientists at top universities, repaying society, supporting their families, and often going on to mentor themselves.

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slimboyslim9@reddit

If it helps, look at it as you’re not paying for the dossers, you’re helping out the kids who had no choice about who or what they were born into.

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rynchenzo@reddit

Those kids will also be dossers though and no net benefit to society. Statistically speaking.

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Aggressive_Cream_188@reddit

Seems a bigoted way to phrase it.

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AmeliaOfAnsalon@reddit

Net benefit to society? How many people who are working even actually benefit society though lol

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roha45@reddit

The taxpayer ones?

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RiverGlittering@reddit

And in what way do they benefit society?

Seeing as a British person earning the median salary for full time employment is still an economic burden, it can't be financially.

So they must be contributing something other than money. So what is it that only taxpayers provide that others don't, that isn't money?

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Rose_Of_Sanguine@reddit

And yet, if there was support networks, like Sure Start, and extra educational and social support, those kids would have a better chance at life.

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Prof_Hentai@reddit

So? I’m a heavy tax payer and I am fine with that, my tax money gets spent in considerably worse ways.

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swilyi@reddit

They manage to do, but at what price? As the daughter of poor parents I think it would have been better if they stopped right before me.

We all had miserable lives, specially my parents. They’ve been working and sacrificing themselves non stop, and for what?

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ImportantAd6193@reddit

For you. It’s the most basic human instinct.

Not getting at you because I hear what you’re saying. My family is a shit show and one of my problems is that I’m bitter that I’ve been left to deal with the consequences.

None of us asked to be here, all we can do is make the most of it now that we are.

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Professional-Fig3168@reddit

I can relate to that. Is the bitterness from other family you now need to take care of?

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Aromatic-Story-6556@reddit

It’s weird but you do just get by. We were pretty financially stable, but then an unexpected pregnancy and the rising costs of being alive over last few years have made it a bit less fun, but certainly doable

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okiadmit@reddit

Unexpected, or you're just thick?

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VerbingNoun413@reddit

!dick

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ZebraShark@reddit

What the hell, man?

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ribenarockstar@reddit

And also lots of people seem to regard it as a ‘fait accompli.’ I remember about 10-15 years ago there was that pair of BBC documentaries following first 16-20 year old boys and then 16-20 year old girls who were out of education and employment, and by the end of the filming period all the girls either had babies or were pregnant. If I compared them to my friends at the time, a huge difference was that if any of us had got pregnant at that age, we absolutely wouldn’t have kept the baby,

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PsychologicalLayer57@reddit

The thing is that the less good you believe your prospects are, the less you have to lose by having children. If you are a student who expects to get a degree and then a professional job, you have a lot to lose by getting pregnant at 19 and you will actively try not to and/or terminate if you become accidentally pregnant. If all you've ever really known is just about scraping by and you don't expect that to ever change, why not? A baby is something to be excited about, something hopeful. From a harsher perspective, it also brings with it attention and more benefits. The shittier your economic and practical circumstances, the more appealing the excitement of another baby can look in comparison.

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360Saturn@reddit

And not just benefits in a financial sense. Having a baby might also net a teenage girl who doesn't think she has any prospects:

independence; if she's old enough to be a mother then she's old enough to be seen as an adult and can't be controlled by mum or dad
a bunch of presents for herself and/or the baby
space - she needs it for the baby but if she lives with siblings in a small house this might be a way to get her own room for her + baby
community - as a mother she has reason to meet other mothers in the community through mum & baby groups etc.

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PsychologicalLayer57@reddit

Very true. There can be both financial benefits in the literal sense and emotional benefits in a very real sense if you're starting from a low baseline.

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Icy_Bit_403@reddit

This is the answer to this post tbh

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glassfury@reddit

Absolutely this. Education and prospects raises the opportunity cost of getting pregnant early.

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PsychologicalLayer57@reddit

They (you know, they) used to say, "Ambition is the best contraceptive", and they had a point. When women are a) educated and b) exposed to the potential for a higher standard of living, they have fewer babies.

I would recommend the incredible nonfiction book "Random Family" by Adrian Nicole LeBlanc to anyone who actually wants to understand what it's like to grow up in poverty and deprivation and what it does to your expectations. It's set in the Bronx from the 80s to 00s, but the mindset is the same anywhere there's poverty, crime, and drugs.

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chocklityclair@reddit

You don't really have any idea what you would have done because it didn't happen to you.

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PharahSupporter@reddit

The government rewards being pregnant, council house, benefits etc. It makes financial sense for them to do it.

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Defiant_Ad_4088@reddit

And you know that for a fact?

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Aggressive_Cream_188@reddit

It's just the usual bullshit, seems to be a day of it.

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Aggressive_Cream_188@reddit

I have a few friends who had kids whilst at school. A surprising number of them went on to good careers and ate pretty well set up. Sometimes things work.

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okiadmit@reddit

GRIM

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VerbingNoun413@reddit

It runs in my family apparently.

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Buttscicles@reddit

Pretty much everybody had next to nothing for most of human history, yet here we are

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pjkm123987@reddit

and put a burden on the economy

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SignificantBoss8445@reddit

This

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HairyRazzmatazz3540@reddit

I agree.

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BaBeBaBeBooby@reddit

Everything living wants to reproduce. It's the way of the world. Not having kids is going against all instinct.

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SlicedUpChicken@reddit

It's not even a financial thing (though on many occasions it is, but it's one factor amongst many). With low income often comes with lower education, lower education often comes from a household that doesn't value education, a household that doesn't value education often don't raise children that have ambitions, goals or self identity beyond having children. The cycle repeats. I'm a psychologist working in the NHS and we see the damage families do on their children and it's only getting worse, so many were set up to fail (including the parents).

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JCGMH@reddit

Spot on this. Reminds me of a line in Philip Larkin: generational issues “deepen like a coastal shelf”.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Yeh this resonates from what I observed around me growing up

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

So true… I’m doing my BSc in Psychology now and hope to go onto being a clinical psychologist. This is probably why I’m so intrigued/frustrated by the topic. Thanks for your input!

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SlicedUpChicken@reddit

I qualify in September - It's a long road but well worth it! Good luck, you'll smash it! :)

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citrousredux74@reddit

Because they are lazy and selfish

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Left_Set_5916@reddit

Bring up one child is hard enough I don't think it's laziness, selfish maybe.

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citrousredux74@reddit

I am of the seemingly rare opinion that this country provides enough that the average person can make good money if they work hard and sacrifice a little bit. So I do think it’s laziness and perhaps some people should put the beer down and get to work.

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lankymjc@reddit

Maybe true for the average person. What about the half of the country below the average?

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citrousredux74@reddit

You got me there. I meant most.

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lankymjc@reddit

All the people who fall outside of that are the ones we're talking about. It's not laziness, it's a human right to procreate.

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citrousredux74@reddit

The lack of money is the lazy part and the last thing you said is the selfish part.

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lankymjc@reddit

You're willing to just label every poor person as lazy?

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citrousredux74@reddit

Most. Not literally every single one.

You are confusing my point with the cause of their situation which is irrelevant. The cause is one thing and the result (lazy) is another. There are obviously bizarre circumstances. A lot of what flushes young peoples lives away is the alcohol/drug/sex culture and corrupt parents (I am not religious).

Either way the end result is a lazy useless bugger.

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lankymjc@reddit

So when you said the lack of money is the lazy part, did you mean lack of money causes people to become lazy?

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citrousredux74@reddit

x -> state of laziness (defined as some measurement of effort) -> less money

x is a bunch of factors including what i mentioned earlier and, potentially yes money too.

The arrow is a statistical inference (not a scientific relationship)

less lazy = more effort -> more money

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lankymjc@reddit

Okay so we're just going with very different definitions of lazy. I don't think it applies to all instances of someone putting in less effort (e.g. I don't think someone on sick leave is being lazy, but your definition would).

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

Working full time on minimum wage is not enough to live in stability in large parts of the country.

And before you say people should just get better jobs, bear in mind that the country would literally fall apart in a matter of weeks if not days without its minimum wage workers. If they all get better jobs the rest of us are fucked.

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citrousredux74@reddit

There is no fixed % of British people you need in minim wage jobs because you can import labour for that

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

I just think it’s laziness in a different way. Yes, they are going out of their way to have kids, but a lot of the time these same parents are not involved in their children’s lives. Nor do they support them and provide enrichment. It’s an unhealthy circle the parents get trapped in I believe…

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peterchekhov@reddit

"there aint nothing sure but the rich get richer and the poor get children"

Lyrics that a satirical song, in 1921...

https://youtu.be/uF6DMubhiLE?si=sEeIUJEB-IJ3tsc0

[-]

RagingMassif@reddit

Free money from the Govt takes the sting out.

Imagine how much smarter it would be if it was a tax rebate instead.

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Laurenamy_p@reddit

Speaking from my own personal experience (currently 34 weeks pregnant, have moved back in with my mom) I have endometriosis and have had previous miscarriages. My endometriosis was getting so severe it was likely that I would not be able to fall pregnant/ if I did it would result in a miscarriage. When I unexpectedly found out I was pregnant, and further along than any previous time, I knew instantly regardless of my situation I would be keeping the baby. I will say though I am EXCEPTIONALLY lucky to have incredible family support, friend support and knew that I would not be doing it alone even though my daughter’s father has not been involved from the start.

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Jewellgem74@reddit

I've noticed I've not seen a teen pregnancy in a few years now. I remember the data was quite high for it 20 years ago. The stories were always in the newspapers and magazines.

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Own-Sherbert-9090@reddit

My mum used to say it takes all sorts of people to make the world go round and she is right. Everyone is different, has different experiences, urges and ideas of what the right way looks like. I'm one of 6. My mum and dad were fairly poor, we received no help financially.l Myself and siblings are the best of friends, I couldn't have wished for a more idyllic childhood.

I now have 4 boys, we're not poor but we have very little spare money for fun. My boys are spot on young people. They care about connections and the world. They are open and honest. They are the least materialistic people I have met, and I absolutely love that. I couldn't be more proud.

You just need love.

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argumentativepigeon@reddit

If you just have love, your kid gonna be a gg

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theoneandonlyvesper@reddit

Love can’t feed you

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

You don't just need love.

As a kid who had instability, uncertainty and poverty growing up .. you absolutely, as a child, need more than love to be a well adjusted adult.

It's not about being materialistic. Money isn't about buying stuff, that's what the working classes don't understand. As Stephen Hawking argued, money is about choice.

poverty traps individuals and limits their potential. Choices might not be the worst, but they are always more limited. Money provides the "choice" to escape those limits.

Some working class people have a limited world view, and are content with the limited set of choices due to ignorance. But for those of us who aren't, it's hellish.

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pretty_pink_opossum@reddit

Haha I haven't seen the "I'm sad because I'm so smart, I wish I was ignorant and happy take" in about 15 years

Of course then they used a less PC word than ignorant

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Huh? What are you on about?

I think the point of my comment bypassed you.

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pretty_pink_opossum@reddit

Some working class people have a limited world view, and are content with the limited set of choices due to ignorance. But for those of us who aren't, it's hellish.

Yes ....yes, you are very smart and living a hellish life because of it, if only you could be happy like those ignorant plebs

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

No that's not what I was saying. I'm not sure why you're projecting, you should probably think about that though.

I was talking about how difficult it is to break into roles and access opportunities beyond your class.

I have a job in a prestigious sector, but it took me years to break in and a difficult meandering route in because I didn't have as much access to cultural capital.

I had ambitions that were severely hampered because of lack of family support, lack of choice and lack of opportunity.

I worked doubly hard as some of my middle class peers to get to the same level. That's why it's hellish if you want to carve out opportunities. That's why having limited choices is hellish if you want something different.

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Agile-Performance834@reddit

unsubstantiated nonsense

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Own-Sherbert-9090@reddit

Ahhh man.....was I being called a pleb. I didn't even realise 🙂

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Own-Sherbert-9090@reddit

The post doesn't state about instability and uncertainty. I agree as a child we had a very stable life, which has bought me up as a very stable adult.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

You're probably an outlier.

Poverty always comes with a degree of uncertainty and precariousness.

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pretty_pink_opossum@reddit

Some working class people have a limited world view, and are content with the limited set of choices due to ignorance. But for those of us who aren't, it's hellish.

Yes ....yes, you are very smart and living a hellish life because of it, if only you could be happy like those ignorant plebs

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quister52@reddit

Well said. I think people are seriously out of touch with what it means to have a family. I've seen first hand people in India and Africa how unimaginably happy and fulfilled they are even while lacking basic necessities that we take for granted in the west.

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MightySquishMitten@reddit

This is such a dystopian question.

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Demiboy94@reddit

You could have kids and a high paying job. Then get sick or face a reduncy- then loose said job. You think at the start of having kids your job would always be there. Also some people have an innate need to have children. I don't have that. But I get other people feel they need to have children as a biological must. Or you could have an unexpected huge expense and then struggle to care for your children. Let's not judge shall we.

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argumentativepigeon@reddit

Im judging.

The unexpected redundancy one i dont judge tho.

Kids aren't a toy. They are human being you are obligated to provide for in various ways. If you can't provide those ways, then you shouldn't have kids.

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IcySetting2024@reddit

Yes but it’s a little bit different when there is a slim chance everything will go tits up, and when everything is already tits up

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jake_burger@reddit

I agree don’t judge anyone. I did the opposite, I accidentally had a kid when my partner and I were 18 and we were very tight for cash, neither of our parents helped much at all either, we were always in debt and couldn’t always afford food.

Now 17 years later we both have good jobs, cars, a house, holidays.

I’m glad the welfare state exists, even though we could have fallen back on family - many can’t. If we only let rich people have kids the country would have died out long ago.

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Agitated_Ad_6774@reddit

This. Life never pans out in a nice, straight, predictable line. Lots of judgement from ppl who haven't been dealt an unexpected blow yet.

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Queasy-Airport2776@reddit

I don't think people will like my opinion. I think people choose selfish interests over themselves than the need of their own children. Hell, I wouldn't want a child brought into this world where it's a mess. We are too overpopulated, the world is becoming dire and we can't beat capitalism.

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TerpzArmy@reddit

Odd games. One in 4 is a better chance than 1 in 3,2,1 in creating a genius/fooballer/actor

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Acrobatic_Page_2800@reddit

Low IQ must be a factor

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FeedFrequent1334@reddit

Why do you think so many people have children when they are struggling to get by financially?

Sex is fun and absolutely free.

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panic_attack_999@reddit

It's not free though is it? You can either pay for birth control or you can pay for the consequences of not using birth control.

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FeedFrequent1334@reddit

No birth control is 100% guaranteed anyway, but regardless, the actual act of having sex doesn't cost anything at all.

If you're broke it's probably the most fun things you and a partner can do without even having to leave the house.

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panic_attack_999@reddit

Obviously I understand why people have sex, but that's not what OP was asking. He asked why they have children they can't afford to raise. In that context, sex is not free if it leads to pregnancy.

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FeedFrequent1334@reddit

See now your falling for OPs obvious bait and leaning into the same rhetoric yourself, which is framing the idea of people who are poor going through with having children as inheritantly irresponsible. The real question here is why do poor people take risks knowing what the consequences might be?

And the answer is to that is for the same reasons wealthy people take risks knowing what the consequences might be.

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panic_attack_999@reddit

Having children you can't afford to raise is irresponsible. I'm not sure how anyone can argue that it isn't.

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FeedFrequent1334@reddit

That's such a lazy and blatantly classist trope, typical of Daily Mail columns by right wing blowhards. Here's a question, how do you quantify if someone is wealthy enough to have kids? Give me a figure.

I've got news for you, poor people have been having kids since time immemorial. Most of them turn out to be perfectly decent, well rounded members of society.

I've got other news for you, there's plenty of kids that grew up in very wealthy families who were just as (if not more) miserable childhoods than OP describes.

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panic_attack_999@reddit

Whatever the cost of raising the child is, that's the figure. If you need money from other people in order to provide the legal minimum support for your child, I believe it was irresponsible of you to have that child.

Call me a right wing blowhard if that makes you feel better. In fact I'm not. I just happen to believe that the social safety net is not wide or deep enough for people to act like they have no personal responsibility and that the state should pay for them to have as many children as they like.

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FeedFrequent1334@reddit

whatever the cost of raising the child is, that's the figure. If you need money from other people in order to provide the legal minimum support for your child, I believe it was irresponsible of you to have that child.

Ah now we're getting somewhere! So let's take that exact logic to the next step. What if that child was born with profound disabilities, limiting the parents ability to both work and provide the necessary levels of support specific to their child's profound additional needs?

Was it irresponsible for that parent to have had that specific child, even if they couldn't have been aware of the levels of additional care the child would have needed before they were born?

This is why I say it's such a lazy and classist trope. You say "whatever the cost of raising the child is, that's the figure". But that's impossible to quantify ahead of time, chilren can have a range of different support needs, and economic factors can make something which was very affordable for someone at one point completely unaffordable just a short time later in life.

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panic_attack_999@reddit

I think you're moving the goalposts here. I do believe that the state should step in where needed. I also believe it's disingenuous to suggest that every childcare cost is unpredicable. Nobody can know if their child will be disabled, but everyone knows that kids aren't free.

OP describes his parents having 4 children and no job. Do you think it's unfair to describe that as irresponsible?

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FeedFrequent1334@reddit

I think you're moving the goalposts here.

I'm just quoting your own words back to you and pointing out the obvious flaws in your logic.

OP describes his parents as as having 4 children and no job. Do you think it's unfair to describe that as irresponsible.

I was suggesting it's unfair for you or I to assume parents like OP described are simply irresponsible without knowing a lot more about that actual families situation and how it came to be that way.

What you did was take OPs anecdote of their childhood and run with the usual right-wing reactionary trope of "poor people are irresponsible for having children". The reality is that we know nothing about OP, their parents or siblings besides OP short anecdote that says they didn't work in OPs lifetime, OP felt they grew up poor which limited their opportunities.

We don't know why it came to be this way for them, or anything else about OP, the parents or the other siblings. But you're choosing to take the reactionary path that these talking points are designed to drum up to create division in the working and middle class.

Here's another anecdote. A friend's of mine had to leave an incredibly well paying job short after his youngest was born where his wife suffered some massive health complications. He has gone from earning 6 figures to being a full-time carer for his now disabled wife. His older kids enjoyed a life for several years of their childhood that their youngest will never get to edperience The youngest, like OP, might grow up to think "My parents never worked, I missed so many opportunities. Were they just irresponsible?".

The problem with your rhetoric I'm getting at, is that people like OPs family might be people like my friend. And if they were to move onto your street right now experiencing hardship, people who gobble up that rhetoric are likely to see them and brainlessly regurgitate lines those lines like "all those kids and neither parent works, those parents were clearly just irresponsible".

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panic_attack_999@reddit

You really are desperate to avoid saying people should have any responsibility whatsoever aren't you? It's bizarre. You're arguing for the existence of a welfare state which couldn't exist if everyone took advantage of it the way some families do.

You keep trying to paint me as right wing. I'm actually very left. I believe the social safety net is so essential that people should try their hardest not to be a burden on it, so that it can be there to provide for those who truly need it.

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FootballUpset2529@reddit

There are still a lot of Catholics in the world and won't use birth control so I don't think they really consider whether it's good for their finances, they just be fuckin'.

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ConsciousGap6481@reddit

I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer. It's something allot of people think, consider and maybe have an opinion on etc.

I was born to young parents, my father left quite early on. Leaving me to be raised by a single mother, on a cleaners wage. When I was growing up, we went without compared to other kids. Far from a glamorous life, though I was always fed, had a roof over my head and spoilt.

That being said, it has been motivational for me, to ensure that money is no object growing up - I have semi-achieved that. And it has made me happier, not having to endure the conditions I grew up in.

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RegularCriticism1493@reddit

I just found out I'm pregnant with my third child. I already have 2 children aged 2 (almost 3) and 1. Both my second and this child were unplanned. We used protection too. By the end of 2026 I'll have a 3 year old, 2 year old and 1-2 month old.

Getting an abortion is out of the question for me so we're going to roll with it and embrace this new baby.

The main thing I want to get across is that two things can be true at the same time. I'm ecstatic and sooo excited. But I'm also still in shock and a very scared. I love being a mum and having babies. It's also stressful managing such young kids without a "village" at my beck and call, especially whilst being a working mum.

I always wanted at least 3 kids so the number isn't the issue. But I planned to space them out a bit more. Life happens.

Financially things are tight right now but my husband and I will soon step into new roles that will put in a better position. We're trusting that that will cushion the blow. Either way I know we'll be fine somehow.

And before anyone says the obvious We'll definitely take contraception WAY more seriously after baby arrives.

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Ready-Fox-3264@reddit

It’s the easiest thing they (anyone) can achieve.

A degree, a career, happiness, you name it, may or may not materialise even after years of struggle, leaving a person unfulfilled. But for those who are young and healthy, getting pregnant is a sure way of finding a path that gives instant meaning to their entire life without having to think too much.

Once they have a child, people have a role to play - a mother or a father and it’s not something you have to pay for or study or get qualified in at all. Yet it’s a respectable role to have.

This doesn’t mean being a parent is easy though. That’s an entirely different discussion.

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OCDannyJJ@reddit

It’s very sad to me that people decide not to have kids due to financial issues. I get it, we all want the best for our kids but honestly as long as they are fed they tend to be happy. Also,after 3 they tend to start looking after each other.

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OCDannyJJ@reddit

It’s very sad to me that people decide not to have kids due to financial issues. I get it, we all want the best for our kids but honestly as long as they are fed they tend to be happy. Also,after 3 they tend to start looking after each other.

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OCDannyJJ@reddit

It’s very sad to me that people decide not to have kids due to financial issues. I get it, we all want the best for our kids but honestly as long as they are fed they tend to be happy. Also,after 3 they tend to start looking after each other.

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OCDannyJJ@reddit

It’s very sad to me that people decide not to have kids due to financial issues. I get it, we all want the best for our kids but honestly as long as they are fed they tend to be happy. Also,after 3 they tend to start looking after each other.

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Global_Chance_7318@reddit

Why not? You know millions of people all over the world have kids when they aren't rich. Having a family isn't just for wealthy people. Should all the poor people just sterilise themselves?

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NarrowOwl4151@reddit

I also don't get this. I think a lot of people just see it as a list of things to tick off on the bucket list of life. I hate it when people have kids and then just don't bother to raise them properly.

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Primary-Cloud-6810@reddit

This is something I wonder all the time. I grew up as 1 of 9 siblings. My parents were on benefits and had no job growing up. They got extra money from some of my siblings having special needs. I consider myself a lucky one that grew up, broke the cycle and went to university (even if my parents didn’t want me too). Now I have two kids of my own and I look back at my parents and wonder what went through their minds. I had nothing growing up. Lived on frozen food, no holidays, no new clothes, didn’t do anything on weekends due to the size of the family. I want to give my kids everything I never had! But two is enough..I can’t afford more!

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

Oh gosh I can’t imagine having 8 siblings! That is insane and so unnecessary to everyone involved. I do think it’s only understandable if you lived it - having parents growing up with no desire to “do better” in life and just growing up on benefits, not doing their best for their kids. It does mess with your view on the world mentally that’s hard to understand.

So glad to hear you break the cycle and get a career for yourself and your kids!!

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flamingoray@reddit

I’ll put my 2p in here. I work full time. I’ve got a chronically ill partner who doesn’t work. The only option I would have for childcare is my mom who’s physically abusive. I can barely afford to support myself.

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cariadbach64@reddit

A lot of people's finances change. Plus biological urge.

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whodunnit20@reddit

My parents both worked full-time and always have but my sister and I grew up in a home where money was limited. We never had a car the majority of our upbringing, we never went on holiday until my parents got a car and it was just camping. My parents cycled everywhere and I had to walk or cycle if I wanted to get around. There wasn’t a lot of money, we didn’t have luxuries but I loved my childhood, great family time, playing games, picnics, visits to the library. They worked hard, but life was simple and I loved that.

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ashleycawley@reddit

Ignorance and the fact that sex is free and fun.

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Intelligent-Mine-868@reddit

To be fair I had four children and didn’t have any money. Using disappointment as a contraceptive was clearly not working for me.

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NebCrushrr@reddit

Because it's a natural, human thing to do

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theprincelucas@reddit

Traditionally, of the three core classes in the United Kingdom, only one class has children for the joy of it: the middle class.

The upper class have children because they've got more money, more land; more things than they know what to do with. They've got rooms to fill and they need someone to leave it all to when they die.

The working class have children for service. They see children as a short-term investment that will pay long-term dividends. When they start working, they can pay board and start contributing to the household both financially and through domestic labour. When the parents are old, they'll pass the burden of caring for them onto the children because they can't afford private care, or the children will be expected to pay for private care.

In the middle class, they're monied enough and comfortable enough not to need children for service and their name isn't noble enough or their fortune large enough to bother about who'll inherit it when they're gone because there won't be much to inherit. They're the only ones who can purely have children for the love of a child.

Times move on and things change, but like many Victorian values, the value of a child is one that's still very much with us, it's just a bit less obvious nowadays.

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Responsible_Joke9371@reddit

Religious and cultural reasons. Societal pressures. As someone who was raised with unemployed parents on the breadline, children is the LAST thing on my mind…

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slha1605@reddit

There’s a lot of people here arguing that people make a decision to have kids when things are good, then something happens that changes circumstances. Few people are answering the question on why people who are already in poor circumstances continue making the decision to have more kids, sometimes repeatedly. As someone who comes from a situation like this, the romanticism of having kids anyway because you want them and you’ll work it out is pretty selfish. Bringing innocent children into a struggle environment makes them vulnerable. I’m sure there’s many people with good intentions but good intentions don’t make a child suffer less.

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Doomergeneration@reddit

Personally I don’t understand this either, I wouldn’t have kids unless I could financially afford it.

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jake_burger@reddit

This is why every country in the EU + UK is currently dying out. Plus many other developed countries.

The birth rate is below 2.1 per woman, so if that continues long enough there will be serious population decline. Which is great as long as you don’t plan on retiring or having a healthcare system.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Dying out lol

Dude, relax and go outside for a bit.

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Iveneverbeenbanned@reddit

it's a real phenomena you can look at countries like south korea that are already suffering for it. It won't be an extinction event but it's a genuine problem we'll need to reckon with

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

It's mostly a problem to our capitalist overlords who control the media narrative telling us it's a problem.

They are worried they'll run out of people to exploit as part of the capitalist grind.

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Iveneverbeenbanned@reddit

There are a lot of genuine economists that aren't controlled by anyone that also argue it's a problem. Specifically, with an ageing population the young will have to work a lot harder and pay a lot more taxes to keep healthcare going and with fewer and fewer people born every generation kids will grow up mostly alone without many their age around them.

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ImportantAd6193@reddit

Infuriating how many want to keep their heads buried in the sand about this. How do these dipshits think the ‘capitalist overlords’ are going to deal with this when push comes to shove? Bet these pricks are in favour of assisted dying too.

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a2021username@reddit

Lots of people financially can afford it and then what happens something life changing happens such as the mum or dad passing away?

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Prudent-Pool5474@reddit

Precisely. Some people here lack thinking skills. I have 2 kids, I own my own business. We were not well off, but comfortable enough not to worry for nearly a decade. Only this last year has my business took a huge downturn due to people not spending much anymore because of the cost of living, and now? Financial struggles have begun. Business will close, will look for new work. It's difficult. It's a huge impact.

It doesn't take much at all for it to happen to anyone. Judging is very easy to do and by the comments here, everyone seems to be a professional at it.

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Whole_Necessary2040@reddit

I think he refers to those who are poor and have no future prospects before kids.

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DreamsComeTrue1994@reddit

But deciding to not have one more kid because if something happens to you or your business, you won’t be able to afford raising it up to your standards is a completely valid reason to not have that kid.

In the best case scenario everyone can afford everything, but in the most probable scenario (like one’s business stop generating profits at some point of their lifetime) they might not, and in the worst case scenario definitely not. It’s where you put the line on risk tolerance.

But I think OP refers to people that won’t even think about all that.

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No-Jellyfish-177@reddit

Tbf being judgemental off the back of a minuscule sliver of context / info is a core tenet of Reddit lol

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Abject-Hope-1493@reddit

yeh why does no one ever consider this, you can be financially stable and become disabled tomorrow, no one knows what’s in store for them so people should be less judgmental.

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LavenderClouds6@reddit

Because the majority of parents living on benefits, not meeting their child's needs etc knew they were not stable for kids. They had them anyway. Most of those parents were not the example you give of "stable but then unfortunate circumstances changed that".

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XihuanNi-6784@reddit

You have absolutely no way of proving this. I know it 'feels' like this is obvious and can be taken for granted, but without evidence this is just meaningless conjecture.

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ALCATryan@reddit

Wrong.

“The negative relationship between fertility and income is well known to economists and demographers… We assembled a country-specific dataset on birth rate and socio-economic factors for 171 countries, using data integrated from publicly available data sources. The regression model shows that the negative factor with the greatest impact on female fertility is represented by the level of income per capita.”

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9024718/

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Clarac94@reddit

Scrolled way too far to see this comment. Circumstances change a lot over 18+ years. The pandemic ruined a lot of previously successful businesses. People get sick and can no longer work or they have a child with additional needs so they cannot manage full time employment.

AI is also going to come for some of those ‘good jobs’ as well.

There are some irresponsible people out there, but even 50% of them could be helped to break the cycle with better education.

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Raisinsandfairywings@reddit

Or we can afford them in general but the baby/toddler/preschool bit is tough enough financially that it probably looks to people like we can’t afford kids.

Like in order to have babies, I have had to stop working because I would be earning less than I’d be spending on childcare. So we have a pretty tight budget, use the local food pantry and receive universal credit to top up our household income. But this period won’t last forever. I’ll be back in work when I can, and my partner may well be earning more than he is now.

We’re not about to deprive ourselves of the lifelong decision to have kids just because we need a bit of support in this short-term bit now.

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BlueFlowerWallpaper@reddit

Yes, but the question is, why do people have children when they can't already afford it.

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LavenderClouds6@reddit

Those people deserve sympathy and support.

People who knowingly have children when they dont have the circumstances to care for them properly, do not. They are just cruel and selfish.

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Effective-Cash7286@reddit

I think they are on about people who cannot afford to have the kids who they already have and then pop out more...

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Agitated_Parsnip_178@reddit

This sort of answer is an interesting thing people say.. but what does 'financially affordable' look like? What's the actual number? Is it the same number in 18 years? Does the number correlate to parenting style? Love to give? Aptitude and intellect?

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BlueFlowerWallpaper@reddit

what does 'financially affordable' look like?

No days out/experiences because it was unaffordable, no financial help with university, driving, or basic necessities.

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pretty_pink_opossum@reddit

Days out and experiences don't need to cost much or anything, you can get those by just spending time with them.

I think you're pretty privileged if you just expect everything to be paid for you, being able to pay for holidays, driving lessons, and their university would be nice things to be able to do but definitely not a requirement

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BlueFlowerWallpaper@reddit

No, having children is a privilege. You as a parent owe them everything, because you bring them into this world out of pure selfishness. If you have kids just so they can barely finish school and live a miserable life working minimum wage, paying taxes and struggle in an increasingly dangerous world, don't.

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pretty_pink_opossum@reddit

Expecting mummy and daddy to pay for your private school, driving lessons, university is very privileged.

If you could barely finish school you probably would have struggled at uni anyway.

You might be miserable but it's not just because you're working a minimum wage job, plenty of folks earning more are miserable and plenty earning as much as you are happy.

That's before we open up the whole can of worms about your views on Africans and folks from 3rd world countries having kids

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Hame_Impala@reddit

Ultimately unless you're solidly middle-class or really wealthy, there's often never a "right time" in terms of finances, you've eventually got to go for it provided it's not an actively stupid decision.

From a purely financial POV having a kid is a terrible idea, they're very expensive. But it obviously ends up being about much more than money.

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ok2888@reddit

And there's so many risks outside of that as well. I'm mildly autistic so there's a much bigger chance of one of my children being severely mentally disabled. Hell, even if they were just mild like me I wouldn't want them to experience the childhood of mockery that I had.

When I was about 10, a guy living on my street accidentally reversed over and killed his 5 year old daughter who had been playing in the drive. I think hearing the mother's screams subconsciously made me not want children, so that it wouldn't happen to me.

It's lucky I don't want children though, because it's very unlikely I would ever find a woman that would agree to have my children.

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jasminenice@reddit

Even if you think you're in a position where you can afford it, can you guarantee that same level of security for the next 18 years minimum? Very few can.

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MissingLink101@reddit

This is why most who are able to afford it are having them in their 30s now, which would have been old by past standards

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Cosmicshimmer@reddit

Prevalent issue right now?! Please. It’s been happening since forever.

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-TheHumorousOne-@reddit

As long as you have loving parents, it's the main thing. I grew up poor, but I know they did their best.

In your case OP you had parents who potentially(?) decided to go the lazy route and just claim benefits. 'Council Estate Mums' is a thing unfortunately.

Ultimately being in a good financial position is good, but things can change in the futur as well.

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omniwrench-@reddit

At the point where you’re asking why humans can’t “afford” to satisfy an innate instinctual drive to reproduce, you’ve gotta question whether the system is the real issue

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Brettstastyburger@reddit

I had no financial help with University and didn't learn to drive until I had my own job. I don't think you need to provide those things to your children.

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

I most definitely will be providing that to my children. I think it’s important to support as much as possible whilst teaching discipline. Making their life easier should always be the priority

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Brettstastyburger@reddit

Why don't you sort their pension and by them a house whilst you're at it.

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whodunnit20@reddit

I think there are many answers to this question. There is in society families that grow up in a cycle of unemployment and bringing children up in hardship, this is passed through generations over decades. It is all they know and in areas of high unemployment, housing crisis, the one happiness they feel they can have is children. They don’t think of the consequences of poverty because they are doing what their families did, breed into hardship. You also get those that married, had children but end up divorced. Whoever ends up with the children can end up trying to get housing, claiming benefits because they can’t work with no help from their husband/wife. It’s not their fault they are in this situation and financially struggling. Everyone has their own situation and it’s easy to judge, but you don’t know what they are going through to be where they are.

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apple_kicks@reddit

Some people love children and really want to raise them. Theres time limit before you get too old or tired to have energy to raise kids. Theres sometimes no right financial time

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MaxMouseOCX@reddit

Because finances aren't an evolutionary driver (or, they are just it's more complicated than that), you are alive, and you will probably reproduce, as far as your genes are concerned (as much as genetics can be concerned about anything) you're a success.

Alive + reproduce = success.

Your struggles are important to you, do you know of the struggles of one of your ancestors from 700 years ago? No, you don't... But they lived long enough to carry on - and that's all that mattered, and all that ever will matter as far as any and all life is concerned.

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Jerico_Hill@reddit

Because there's never a good time to have kids. For some, the biological imperative overrides any notions of waiting.

My parents thought that all a child needs is love. I disagree, growing up dirt poor was pretty difficult.

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Wrong_Duty7043@reddit

Your finances might improve later down the line but your fertility won’t.

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pm_me_your_amphibian@reddit

Lizard brain.

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Jeffuk88@reddit

I mean, people were having even more kids before we had electricity and all 9 of them surviving was seen as a win.

My only gripe is when those struggling financially have kids AND expect to raise them to lower middle class standards. I was happy with my blackpool holidays but I know parents with no jobs who complain theyre struggling to afford their sky package and go to majorca this year

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HoGyMosh@reddit

Some of us need the motivation to work hard.

I'd be stacking shelves in Aldi if I wasn't a parent at this point.

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shelfside1234@reddit

Need to have kids to perpetuate the species; the successive governments taking decisions to slowly eradicate support for having kids were all too short-termist to realise that.

You’ll note that the same people who cheered on the implementation of said short term thinking are now panicking over birth rates and that Mohammed often tops the polls for boys names.

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Karklayhey@reddit

I wanted kids. I had kids. I'm figuring it out. I refuse to not do this because I will struggle financially. It would be like refusing to live because I'd get cancer at some point. Fuck that, have kids, figure the rest out as you go.

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kittycakekats@reddit

Same here. Figuring it out. Happy as can be. We struggle financially but it’s not that bad if we budget correctly for what we want or what our children love.

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HoGyMosh@reddit

You will figure it out.

We have five children. We were in receipt of tax credits and only one of us working due to childcare in 2018/2019. Now we're both higher rate tax payers and the eldest is at an RG university.

Ultimately, family is everything. Don't let the terminally online who haven't even had a shag with a real person in the last two years convince you otherwise ✌️

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JCGMH@reddit

👍🏼

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LocalObelix@reddit

Have you had sex?

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No-Jellyfish-177@reddit

They’re possibly not the type of people to think long term or even medium term.

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Brave_Assumption6@reddit

And yet they still survive whereas anti-child doomsters stay depressed about life and complain about it online.

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foxfunk@reddit

Definitely this with my cousin who has 6 kids between 4 dads and went back for 2nds on dad number 3.

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PharahSupporter@reddit

More children, more money, especially now the two child benefit cap is lifted. It's just a business to them and the state encourages it.

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Derries_bluestack@reddit

This

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Many-Disaster-3823@reddit

Human nature to want to have sex and have your own offspring and that urge is still there regardless of global economic crises

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Brave_Assumption6@reddit

As it has been for millenia. We're humans and it is natural instinct.

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Usual_Box9920@reddit

Life isn’t about money. You, in all likelihood, have skills and experience which are very valuable to you in adulthood as a result of your upbringing. Someone who is raised with wealth, may still be subject to abuse and neglect. Instead of having parents available to them all the time, they have physically and emotionally absent parents but lots of money. They may have parents who are absorbed by work and permanently exhausted/ stressed/ unavailable There are definite cons to having parents pay for everything. We live in societies where money has been given such huge status and significance but it’s actually not the answer to happiness

If you were materially poor but raised in a happy and loving family where your parents wanted the best for you, you’re actually much better than someone who is rich but abused or emotionally neglected etc.

Be kinder to your parents. It’s your prerogative to live your life differently but there’s no need to judge them. They’re just a getting through life. You should focus on making sure that you get through your life, y

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Whole_Necessary2040@reddit

They are not as smart.

E.g. can't understand the consequences and responsibility, could be selfish, lack selfish restraint etc.

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Agile-Calligrapher10@reddit

Surely you're trolling. Certain communities are incentivised. It's literally the most obvious thing in the world

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GroundbreakingRing42@reddit

Wanting to have kids and a family are fundamental good things. If no one has kids, we do not have a functioning society.

We're having a crisis of extended adolescence in the west at the minute, full grown adults describing kids as "gross" or that parents are selfish.

No. Disney adults, people that would rather rack up credit card debts to go on holiday are selfish. The country has fundamentally crushed a generation out of wanting to have a family, everything costs so much that its hard to justify it, but it shouldn't be this way.

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yorkspirate@reddit

More and more people are realising it's a choice to have kids or not now, it's not an extended adolescence (granted, the peripheral and often the ones cited in the media make it seem this way)

Adults choosing to enjoy their lives how they see fit wether that's Disney or holidays is hardly selfish either

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GroundbreakingRing42@reddit

You don't see any problems occurring if people en mass stop having children?

Where do new people come from if people aren't making them?

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yorkspirate@reddit

I think a smaller global population is less of a problem than people who don't want children bringing them into the world.

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GroundbreakingRing42@reddit

Right, I would argue people "not wanting to bring them into the world" is the problem.

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Harry98376@reddit

Because they are generally thick, uneducated white trash that expect the taxpayer to fund them!

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AskUK-ModTeam@reddit

Don't be a dick to each other, or other subreddits, places, or people.

Don't be a dick to each other, or other subreddits, places, or people. AskUK contains a variety of ages, experiences, and backgrounds - consider not everyone is operating on the same level or background as you. Listen to others before you respond, and be courteous when doing so.

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FamousCFC07@reddit

Bit of a generalisation there buddy

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Harry98376@reddit

Why have 4+ if you can't even afford 1?🤔

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Alert_Cap_2931@reddit

Omg that's so funny like literally reading all the comments these two hit my funny spot.

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realViewTv@reddit

Because you only get one life. Money is just something fabricated by current civilizations. One day it will all be gone.

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dbrdh@reddit

They’re not. That’s why the birth rate is in free fall.

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IamlostlikeZoroIs@reddit

It’s easy to get a lot of benefits by having children.

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dippedinmercury@reddit

Selfish reasons. It's what they want so it's what they will do. There is little consideration for what is best for the child or wider society. It's just selfishness and entitlement.

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pineappleshampoo@reddit

Selfishness and lack of foresight pretty much covers it.

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violxtleader@reddit

Birth rates all across the board are dropping so actually I don’t think many people are having children as you think.

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PigneySnoo@reddit

The lowest since data was first collected nearly 100 years ago.

Probably because people realise the can't afford them.

Years ago, women went to work and took their kids with them. Can't do that now.

Then there was a brief period of time where being a stay at home mother was sold as an ideal lifestyle. Even then, children were outside playing with other children for most of the day.

Fast forward to today, we have a society where both parents (typically) have to work to afford to live AND the expectation that children are constantly supervised by an adult for at least the first ~12 years of their life AND childcare that is both lacking in supply and extremely expensive as a proportion of the household income. That'll explain it.

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Willing_Parsley_2182@reddit

I think they did some research on this, looking at different countries with differing levels of maternity pay and childcare.

The drop in fertility rate essentially was across the board in all developing countries, and these measures didn’t meaningfully reverse the effects.

The end conclusion was essentially people don’t want to raise kids (at least more than 1) since they can enjoy their life in a different way. A thought point was that we’re getting older as first time parents and th hypothesis was that this causes us to be more reflective and view it as a decision, rather than a given. Also, other societal changes influenced it too.

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chocklityclair@reddit

My kids had no help with university, driving or basic expenses. They all managed just fine. If you're well-off, great. But there's no law that says kids can't get jobs and pay for their own driving lessons.

I had no help with uni in my 40s, I'm paying off my student loan. I'm a free childminder for my grandkids and I spent half my life driving my own children around to their clubs and outings and picking them up late at night.

Everyone has the right to be a parent. Some people aren't very good at it, but in most cases that's nothing to do with how wealthy they are.

In any case, I'm pretty sure you have no idea about most people's finances, and you're just choosing to be judgemental about those whom you see as being substandard humans because they're poor.

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Ok-Sherbet-3519@reddit

They do it for the same reasons rich people do. Poor people are children of the same evolution and biology - but in 2026 it feels like we're starting to doubt that.

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BobTheCosmonaut@reddit

I've always thought that if the taxpayer is expected to be financially responsible for peoples children, the kids should be raised by social services. The parents get zero money for just having kids & learn to masster their irresponsible biological urges. That doesn't quite seem to fit with the rest of my progressive liberal sensibilities though 🤔

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Charming-Ad-6293@reddit

Most people are entitled lol

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ConclusionNervous770@reddit

It’s very well documented the link between education, class, income level and birth rate

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Lee-Malone@reddit

I never had a strong urge to be a father. If it had happened with my first wife, I might have felt different. When we broke-up, I ended-up in a relationship with a divorced single mother. So then I didn't want children with her because we already had enough to deal with. That relationship ended, and I did the same all over again. Problem solved, the women already had the kids they wanted and I never had to deal with being a biological father.

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dreadwitch@reddit

It might have something to do with the biological urge to reproduce the species.

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smellyfeet25@reddit

Because they like what makes them

they also get priority with housing and i think they seem to get more benefits especially tax credits

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Pan-tang@reddit

Some women are just born to have children. They seem to love it and it is obviously a sensible and natural urge. Finance doesn't come into it,you can see that in third world countries even.

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idontlikemondays321@reddit

I think when people have lots of children and can’t afford to provide for them, it’s to fill an emotional hole. Maybe they weren’t loved as a young child and a baby depending on them makes them feel wanted for a short while. Interestingly, both parents of Britain’s biggest family were adoptees themselves. I don’t think that’s a coincidence

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croftfan@reddit

Im the oldest of 8 kids and i will never understand why they had so many that they couldn't afford or mentally deal with. they would constantly say we had no money then next minute mum would be pregnant again, her whole identity is based around having 8 kids so i dunno if for some people it's that?

Im now pregnant with my first child, me and my partner of 10 years have waited untill we were in our 30s and financially stable before even trying, we only want 1 kid as well as iv expirenced first hand what its like to be in a family with too many and i don't want to repeat it

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MatooMan@reddit

I know a woman who was abused and beaten by partners, used to be on the game as a teenager so she could leave her parental home etc. She told me sadly that she wanted to have children so she knew what it was like to be loved by someone unconditionally.

She had 5 kids altogether, 3 of them ended up in care. The 2 that didn't, one was her only girl and she has 3 kids now herself she can barely afford. And the 1 leftover - who she describes as the best achieving of the lot - has nothing to do with her, lives in another country and cheats on his partners.

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

It’s sad that the “best achieving” is the one who basically gets far away and makes a life for themselves - despite moral issues (unfaithfulness) lol. I’m hearing a lot of these scenarios and it is upsetting, but a reality for a lot of families

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AbaloneStrict6196@reddit

You only get one chance at life, and most just find a way.

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ReddereDonum@reddit

No days out/experiences because it was unaffordable, no financial help with university, driving, or basic necessities.

Standards for children's wellbeing have gone up. To them the above is probably not that bad.

My mum was raised on plain boiled rice and plain yam. Day in, day out. No running water, no central gas system (was gas canisters). Was expected to help around the house way more, started bringing money to the home aged 13/14.

So for her, my life probably looked blessed even without days out, uni help, experiences etc.

Now if I say I "can't afford kids" I mean I can't afford to raise kids by what I consider to be acceptable standards. I have way more money than my mum ever had so it's obviously possible, it just wouldn't be acceptable to me.

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SnooozeFezt@reddit

This is exactly how I feel to a tee. My mother doesn't understand my reluctance to havd children because "I can't afford them".

I grew up poor, but she grew up poorer.

I remember the struggle or having less than everybody else and just don't want to go through that again.

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Hame_Impala@reddit

Now if I say I "can't afford kids" I mean I can't afford to raise kids by what I consider to be acceptable standards.

Also there's inherently a lot of stuff you're potentially expected to pay for your kids to do.

You don't have to let your child go away on a school trip, or join a hobby-related club that costs money, or anything like that, but you'd be considered a pretty rotten parent now if you restricted all of that on the basis of cost.

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ScreamingDizzBuster@reddit

Excellent perspective.

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FakeyName88@reddit

It’s amazing how much things change in a generation. My dad had a paper round aged about 12 and from then on contributed financially to the household. Ice creams were a treat and dependent on how much change had been saved in their treats dish. My kids would be shocked to their cores to live it for a week

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

Really good points! I do agree. Theres definitely a generational factor at place.

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Strange_Cranberry_22@reddit

Given that the day to day actions of literally every other species on the planet is driven by survival and proliferation of its genetic material to the next generation, why would humans be any different?

Just because we have more complex civilisation doesn’t mean we’re able to just override millions of years of evolutionary pressure. We are the descendants of those who “won” the game when it came to reproducing, after all.

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WickedWitchofTheE@reddit

Have you asked your parents?

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Sea_Photograph_3998@reddit

Because they’re idiots… is my short and I suppose insensitive and inconsiderate answer. But then again I do firmly believe it’s categorically stupid for people in this situation to have children, so I stand by my opinion - they’re idiots.

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Successful-Tune2225@reddit

Well strangely having children can actually provide you with stability and money. A homeless woman could be living on the streets or in hostels...and then she gets pregnant and once the child is born she immediately has safe accomodation (B&B for example), lots of help from social care....she would eventually be provided with housing. And then full benefits, free school meals, free childcare etc etc

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Fromasha@reddit

Because we only have 2 biologic imperatives that drive everything we do, to survive and to procreate. Everything else is just noise. If you don't procreate you are failing/have failed biologically unfortunately.

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dinkidoo7693@reddit

Sometimes things are going really well and then suddenly stuff happens like job redundancies and relationship breakdowns.
Sometimes people don’t know they are pregnant. An old colleague of mine was nearly 7 months gone when she found out, hadn’t missed a period and didn’t start showing until then. She Went to the docs for a total different reason.
A lot of people only plan for one child. My friend didn’t plan for twins and was shocked when she saw the scan.
It can also be difficult to find a job that works around childcare hours that isn’t in a school type setting and those jobs aren’t for everyone. Not everyone has people nearby who are willing to help out with babysitting and school pick ups.
A lot of parents also don’t want to work in schools because they need a break from the kids and want more adult conversations.

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Traditional-War-7360@reddit

Was she massive?

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Those are all pretty exceptional, outlier circumstances though

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Kiss_It_Goodbyeee@reddit

Having children is not a financial decision. If it was most people would be childless.

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Regular_Check9898@reddit

As Jarvis once said "and then dance and drink and screw, because there's nothing else to dooooooo"

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Educational_Walk_239@reddit

Sex is the most fun thing you can do for free.

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DreamsComeTrue1994@reddit

It’s not free if you’re popping children afterwards though. It’s have fun now, pay it in 216 instalments.

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Rusty_Tap@reddit

Those installments get larger far quicker than your typical credit interest does, too.

Mine are just reaching the age now where instead of asking for cute cuddly toys and stuff they are after electronics.

I so much look forward to the remaining 140 installments.

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SnooCakes1636@reddit

I must’ve been having bad sex lol

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Hame_Impala@reddit

You've clearly never watched a Premier League 2006/07 best goals video compilation of YouTube.

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supergleneagles@reddit

Gotta pay an internet subscription for that bliss

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fatwoodburner@reddit

Because people want to have families, and there's a clock. If you put off having kids over and over again until "the right time" you just never have kids, or you end up being an old parent. Also sometimes kids just happen and not everyone is ok with abortion.

Btw, people have been having kids in poor circumstances forever, medieval peasants and so on, even people who live in shanties in Africa have kids, because having a loving family is one of lifes greatest joys, people shouldn't be priced out of that - that's a very materialistic way of viewing things.

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okiadmit@reddit

Kids suck

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fatwoodburner@reddit

Didn't ask

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okiadmit@reddit

Grim

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MoleWhackSupreme@reddit

It’s gotta be partly down to selfishness at some point surely

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UnfortunateWah@reddit

I mean does anyone have kids for any other reason than they (the couple) want kids? Pretty easy to argue anyone having kids is selfish, I think you would struggle to find anyone having kids for reasons other than their own desires.

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MoleWhackSupreme@reddit

I more meant that it’s selfish to continue to have children you know you can’t afford to give a good life.

So someone who could’ve provided well for 2 kids but then decides they’re going to have 4 etc.

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UnfortunateWah@reddit

Oh, fair enough.

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Effective_Topic_4728@reddit

I think its selfish if you have no desire to pay for the kids yourself.

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pretty_pink_opossum@reddit

So most People in Africa shouldn't reproduce?

I don't think British people realise how good their standard of living is, these conversations show how privileged even the worst off British person is

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Glittering-Round7082@reddit

Instinct. We would be extinct without it.

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budgrummur@reddit

Children learn to get buy the way their parents do. What is inconceivable poverty for one, is doable for others.

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dirtytoyfantasy@reddit

lack of education and support systems

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FourArtifact@reddit

My partner and I are (i guess) financially stable. Not rich by any means.

We have cars, rent currently but saving to buy, dont need to live payday to payday, but we arent able to splash cash either.

We also have 2 boys, because we wanted them. They are my best friends and I would do anything in the world for them, and it breaks my heart when I have to tell them that we can't go on holidays or buy new times for them all the time, but that's all part of growing up.

The problem isn't having kids when you're not financially able to, the problem is living in a system where basic necessities are becoming increasingly more and more expensive, while wages and pay only increase enough to ensure companies aren't breaking the law.

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okiadmit@reddit

Or just stop making shitter versions of yourself?

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okiadmit@reddit

Your kids suck

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FourArtifact@reddit

Nice ragebait man 👍🏻

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becpuss@reddit

This again 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ boring repeated post 🙄🙄🙄

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Grouchywhennhungry@reddit

Personally I went into parenting married with 2 full time wages.

He decided he didn't like parenting and left. He also didn't like paying maintenance and ive never had a penny.

So yeh we can't afford much. Hadn't planned it that way. Life happens.

My kids are fed and warm. We have days and afternoons out. Free ones. Walks and picnics, meeting up with friends and family etc.

We try to go away once a year, our holiday is 2 nights in a tent rather than 2 weeks on a plane. Completely different vibes but equally fantastic as a child. Museums, library etc are all free.

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Mountain-Distance576@reddit

by accident. sex feels good and it can make you think ‘fuck it yeah let’s have a kid’. it’s painful and sad to not have children, especially for people who really want children too - it can be devastating to choose not to have them because you don’t have much money

i’m fortunate that I don’t want children, even if i could afford them. if i wanted them it would be devastating probably to not have any because of money, there is a chance I would think ‘let’s do it, we’ll work out the finances later’

it’s a big reason why as a childless person i’m really passionate about making sure that society (including me) funds free schools and childcare

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munchbunch365@reddit

It is not a prevalent issue - UK birth rate is 1.4 children per woman. More people will die in the UK than are going to be born this year. If people want to have 4 kids, then that's great. It's in everyone's interest for these kids to be fed, clothed and educated so let's give them the cash for that as well.

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Gauntlets28@reddit

Because ultimately there's a biological ticking clock, and eventually you have to ask yourself, do I want kids or do I not?

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1HeyMattJ@reddit

Because life is short

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imcheddarbeard@reddit

Fuck me there's a lot of Reddits anti child attitude going on here lmao

Because for a lot of people, it is THE goal in life. Not only that, but even if you dont care, biology is likely to take over and MAKE you care at some point in your late 20s.

I think a lot of people think prospective parents think of it as a "nice to have". Whereas its often a scale between that and "i have literally failed life if this does not happen" for some.

If you care in any capacity whatsoever, there comes a point when its too late, and even if its not too late, it gets less likely with time. This puts a lot of pressure on you on top of the already existing desire.

Its something where theres often not a right time, and it can take a year or so to happen even before accounting for pregnancy times so whether your situation is good or bad now, its probably going to be different by the time the baby is born. Best you can do is have a plan and hope it works out.

Finally, even the best protection isnt perfect. 1 in 50 women will become pregant within one year when using condoms perfectly (source: https://www.nhs.uk/contraception/methods-of-contraception/condoms).

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mumwifealcoholic@reddit

They’ll be begging for you to have kids within a decade.

Ignore the thickos who get their daily thoughts via DM headlines.

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imcheddarbeard@reddit

I suspect my sons class at school is gonna be a very empty one

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mumwifealcoholic@reddit

Schools are closing up and down the country.

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Parker_Borders283739@reddit

Because they'll never have them otherwise, then they'll die.

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Cool_Professional@reddit

I do not have money to enjoy lavish things and spoil myself. I do not have luxuries from wealth. I do not have the satisfaction of doing something well and being recognised for it.

But I can make babies. Maybe then I will have something fulfilling in my life.

Thats my theory anyway.

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Yallow_Bonerholder@reddit

If you think life is hard now you would have hated it 500 years ago. Or 1000 years ago. Or 5000 years ago. Or 15000 years ago.

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

I think anyone would have hated life 500-15,000 years ago? We’re talking about modern society

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localmansayshello@reddit

Tbf, we've got some of the highest childcare costs in the world, a cost of living crisis that's actually not a crisis anymore and has just quietly become normal, and our benefits system is designed to be dehumanising. If money was the only consideration, nobody would have kids.

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Cupidindisguise@reddit

I've been wondering that, too. When I had a talk with my father years ago, like, who in their right mind would become parents now, for example, in Russia, which is at war, he said that "it doesn't matter - people gave birth dung WWII; so war, so what? It doesn't mean people should stop reproducing." My guess is that people with this type of mind do that. They don't actually care about wellbeing of their kids and what they can actually give them. They have kids because they were taught to.

You know, in Russia they have a very weird idiom: if God gave you a bunny, He'll give you grass (to feed the bunny). Which is, of course, erm... wishful thinking at its stupidest.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

People didn't have a cess to contraception during WW2 either I'm guessing

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dazed1984@reddit

If you keep having kids about 4-5 years apart you keep getting benefits and are not expected to look for work as you have a pre school aged child. People also say things like theres no good time to have a child, they’ll manage, and love is enough.

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gagagagaNope@reddit

Stupidity, selfishness, immaturity, entitlement.

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rising_then_falling@reddit

Because if you have no job prospects, no money and no hobbies life is pretty shit. You are a person of no consequence doing nothing.

But if you have a child you are now someone import, you're a parent. You have stuff to do that matters. Somebody cares about you and thinks you're great. And the government pays you to do it, to a large extent.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

And the access barrier is low. You don't need to work hard, or be smart or talented to get knocked up/knock someone up.

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JCGMH@reddit

I’ve met a few single parents over the years who I concluded were continuing to have children mainly because they were lonely. I get it. Being alone is shit, and people need a purpose.

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stellfox-x@reddit

The flip side of your narrative is that only those on high incomes should be able to start a family. It's a narrative that's been conditioned by tabloids and certain politics.

The reality is we have a low birthrate in the UK and it's why we need high levels of immigration.

In my view the right question is how can we help those who want to start a family give those kids the best start in life so they can become productive members of society.

Because guess what without those kids nobody is paying for your pension and healthcare in old age.

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

But this is exactly my point. I want these children to be bough up in the best way so they CAN be successful and have that support in place. My point is, a lot of parents are not setting them up for this. I think slowing down and having children at a later time in life when everything is solidified is the best thing to do.

I totally get your point about the birthrate issue in the UK. There are many many issues this country needs to face.

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Nyxrinne@reddit

To be clear, I'm not strictly disagreeing with your point, but there is another side to consider: if you wait to have kids, you may struggle with infertility. You run higher risks of birth defects. You may suffer social costs if you end up out of sync with your friends having kids, which sounds minor but can be extremely isolating. You interrupt your highest earning years if you have kids in your late thirties; you may not have the same ability to rebuild in your fifties. You may find you're dealing with infirm parents just when you thought you'd be stable enough to become a parent yourself. If you go on to have kids late, you become the elderly and unhelpful grandparents for your kids' kids. If your relationship breaks down in your mid thirties, you have very little time biologically to find a new partner and thoroughly vet them before you run out of time to have kids.

There are compromises inherent in either choice.

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Adventurous-Idea1473@reddit

raising children in poverty just to make sure that we have a future generation of workers to pay for our pensions doesn't seem that ethical.

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kbwe1@reddit

I understand that some people have that urge to have more that can’t be ignored, for others having more children is a higher priority than finances. But for me money, or lack there of, is a big reason why we’re sticking with one

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CobaltBlue389@reddit

Because there is far more to life than financial security.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

Like what? Basic security is essential to human wellbeing. Especially a child's.

I grew up without financial security, it was traumatic.

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Yallow_Bonerholder@reddit

But you’re here now aren’t you? This is life

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babadeboopi@reddit

Stigma and social pressure. People get judged if they decide not to have kids

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craigybacha@reddit

The same reason people have been having kids for hundreds and hundreds of years.

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nat_urally@reddit

I mean we’re biologically programmed and honestly, I am the same level of poor now as I was before. It didn’t really change much. My kids have all they need. I truly think kids slot financially into our lives a lot easier and cheaper than some of you think

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Just_Two8441@reddit

More kids bigger council house and more child benefit.....

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spannerintworks@reddit

If we don't have children we die out. My generation (millenial) need to bite the bullet and accept that it is OK to have kids in a flat, it is OK to have kids whilst renting. It's not what we grew up thinking we had to do, but it is the reality many face if they want to have children this side of 35/40.

Otherwise, it'll only be those who really 'shouldn't' be having children having them, and that won't be ideal.

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skilledbiscuit1@reddit

Because fucking is free and when your unemployed you have more free time to fuck, chances of accidental pregnancys increase dramaticaly. Can you really bring yourself to abort evry time there is an accidental pregnancy. I not condoning large benefit reliant family's but choice is not always there.

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cwright017@reddit

Many people don’t think about their actions and or think they have the right to do things.

It’s the answer to:

Why do people get themselves in debt to study obviously non-valuable degrees

Why do people buy houses / things that they clearly can’t t afford

Unfortunately we live in a society where they will be bailed out so really there is no reason for them not to.

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magic_spurtle@reddit

I had a very similar childhood to op in terms of financial circumstances, but I would strongly argue that poverty does not equal bad parents. There are also many ways in which families can find themselves in long term difficulty and not having luxuries is not a big deal.

Franky the unfettered hatred of poor people in a lot of these replies upsets me. I was homeless from 2-5, then a council estate, never went on a holiday except camping occasionally, never had a birthday party or an expensive present etc etc. I had a great childhood, I felt loved and safe and intellectually and socially stimulated, and any criticisms I would have would not be about lack of material things

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

That’s lovely to hear! And I get your point - finances are a small part of it. I think I just felt my parents were selfish for specifically having children whilst not working. Not working led to an unhealthy circle of - not even taking us to the park, complaining about taking us to school, feeling entitled to my wages once I started working etc… One (financial instability) definitely doesn’t cause the other (bad parenting) but they can often go hand in hand.

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magic_spurtle@reddit

I'm sorry for that, and that's not good of them at all. Honestly I feel like a bigger part of the issue is people having kids they don't really want, or at least act to their kids like they are an inconvenience or burden. I certainly grew up on the estate with kids whose parents were awful. But I think bad parenting exists across the financial spectrum. Some of the best off (in childhood) people I know have terrible relationships with their parents, and their parents get annoyed because they feel like "you had everything any child could want", but what they needed was presence, not ski trips and house ties.

We also must humanise our parents, struggling and feeling like you're not doing enough for your family is depressing, and terrible mental health was a big part of why my dad especially struggled so much with getting or staying in work.

Not to say it's an excuse for not taking you to the park etc because as a parent myself I can't understand that. But I do see that my child gets far more joy from being pushed on the swings or taken for a bike ride by me, than from being bought things.

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ToeRevolutionary4810@reddit

I think the question should be why the uk government doesn’t support parents better so that it is manageable to have children if you’re not wealthy. Other countries do it and we should too. As a country, we need people to have children and need parents to be able to continue working after they have children, rather than be forced to give up work because they can’t afford ridiculously expensive childcare.

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Sezyluv85@reddit

Because it's a natural thing to do. Unlike the System we live in which goes against nature/biology.

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msrch@reddit

Yeah my parents were the same. Grew up in poverty, emotionally abusive, had nothing, everything stunk of smoke and yet my parents were massive snobs and refused to claim benefits etc. and looked down on people who did. They absolutely should not have had children, I think they were just young and stupid.

I was the first in 4 generations not to be a teenage mum and the first to leave the area.

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MrsMigginsOldPieShop@reddit

People have always struggled and have always had kids. Most (all?) of us wouldn't be here if some our ancestors had decided not to have kids. And most of our ancestors will have struggled in far worse situations than now. I've been looking at my family tree and most families in the North of England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales etc, prior to WW2, seemed to have pretty difficult lives, yet they all continued to have kids, even knowing that a some of their kids would likely die horribly before reaching adulthood.

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

They didn't have much of a choics. They were indoctrinated to reproduce, and birth control wasn't available.

That doesn't apply now.

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DeifniteProfessional@reddit

The benefits system is designed to assist families with young children as a priority. That's why two girls I know have no job, a kid, a two bed house/maisonette, and all the food they need. But they're kinda just surviving, one of them uses the food bank for most of their meals.

But that's not the question, and they're not good examples. I think most people would point out to you that your question doesn't really hold merit. Not every "poor" person has lots of kids, and not every person with lots of kids is poor. It's a stereotype that benefits families have lots of kids.

But on the other hand, there is a correlation that can be seen with people who are more likely to have lots of children, and not holding a proper job. Similarly to my earlier example, I know multiple women who have children with multiple fathers/unknown fathers, and do not work. There absolutely is a correlation where people who mix in with bad crowds, crime, and live inside a hookup culture, are less likely to avoid getting pregnant, as well as less likely to be low income. And it's one of those things you just can't explain, but everyone knows what you're on about, and probably knows at least one first hand example of such a person

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Winter-It-Will-Send@reddit

Less likely to be low income? Surely the opposite?

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Distinct-Quantity-46@reddit

Because if you wait until you are ‘financially stable’ no one would ever have children apart from the very rich

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No-Taro-6953@reddit

I mean that's not true

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Workshymassiv@reddit

Sense of entitlement

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No-Pack-5775@reddit

I know

Imagine being so entitled that you think you deserve to fulfil the main meaning in life

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Workshymassiv@reddit

I don't have children because I can't afford a family. Many people have children regardless of whether they can provide a good life for them, simply having children without having a clear vision on how to support them

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

Are you sure its not because you don't actually want kids that much?

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No-Pack-5775@reddit

That's your prerogative. A lot of the world has children born into more poverty than the UK

You telling all them to not bother too?

Good luck on your mission

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Itadakimasss@reddit

Imagine being so entitled you think you deserve to have the taxpayer finance the upbringing of your child(ren) lol

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No-Pack-5775@reddit

So they should opt out of children because the system exists?

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Adventurous-Dog-3786@reddit

Ok I’ll say it as no one else has…….They get more money from the social then , especially if they can get a ‘label’ attached to the child, get bigger houses and sometimes cars ! This comes from my wife who works in Primary School Education and comes across this regularly. The above reasons have come straight from some of the kids when they know mum is pregnant (again).

There , I’ve said it…. Now bring on the downvotes 😂

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CPD1960@reddit

It is said that only the very rich and the very poor have large families.

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mu5tbetheone@reddit

Making kids is free. Living on benefits come with added bonuses such as very affordable or free days out, free prescriptions, dental care, school meals, they even get discounts on bus fairs, so having children isn't as big of an issue as you might think.

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Bennjoon@reddit

Sometimes it’s an accident. My sister was on meds for another condition and it made her bc malfunction and her and her husband swear they used protection too 😭 they have no reason to lie since they were pretty set up life wise with a kid already.

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Junior_Apple2678@reddit

Children give meaning to life and they bring love and joy. People who are unable to find this in other areas of life may seek it through children. I think this is why you see lots of children amongst rich and poor people but not the middle income earners.

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xxdavidxcx87@reddit

The first year was pretty tough tbh, especially with my wife on reduced maternity, but it's absolutely worth it 💯%.

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Moment_13@reddit

If you're already unemployed, on benefits and have child(ren), having another doesn't add much to your outgoings. For working people, they have to factor in loss of earnings whilst on maternity, nursery fees, school holiday childcare for older children. If you're unemployed, you don't have those outgoings, only the cost of an extra mouth to feed and child benefit at £80 per month will cover that.

If you can't better your situation, at least there's another child to love.

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smellthecoffeebeans@reddit

Everyone deserves to have children. Look, as someone who went hungry as a child, I know it was hard on my mother, but we found ways to have joy. Little picnics at the park when all we could afford was sandwiches for dinner. Saving up our change to buy everyone an ice cream at the end of the month.

Sure, it was hard, but i for one will always be grateful not only that i have the mother i have but that is am alive.

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RoutineAbroad3486@reddit

I’ve got one daughter that came along unexpectedly. I wasn’t in the financial position or grown up enough (or so I thought) to have her but we’ve got along just fine.

In hindsight, I don’t think I’d let the idea of a rat race or the bullshit society were forced to be part of rob me of the amazing journey we’ve been on.

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JCGMH@reddit

Yeah exactly. A lot of the replies in here are very Reddit, even for Reddit lol

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New-Process-52@reddit

The bloodline is important

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mampiwoof@reddit

Conscious thought and planning rarely is able to override basic instincts. Humans like most animals have a tendency to reproduce more in times of hardship. This is an evolutionary trait which increases the chances of survival.

Also, we evolved as hunter gatherers. As far as our instincts are concerned, if you are able to feed children enough that they don’t die you have enough resources. In times in history or places now where even feeding children is uncertain humans have even more children. For most of our history it was normal to have 5-10 children with the chances being most of them would die before becoming adults.

Also, we didn’t evolve to live in nuclear families, actual human nature is that all of society is responsible for the survival of all children. Pretending that children are the sole responsibility of their parents is a cultural phenomenon introduced relatively recently by rich and powerful people.

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MrD-88@reddit

Theres never a perfect circumstance to have kids, and lots of people who are struggling financially are families where both parents work and still struggle.

Some people may have come into difficulties after the kids were born, there are some who just spit them out for fun while depending on the state.

My mate got custody of his 3 when they were all under 10 and relied on the gov for help. Now they're older in secondary school and a bit more independent, he can work.

Everyones circumstands differ, there isn't really a definitive answer to this question IMO.

Anyone who screams "wah scroungers" is ignorant and judgemental, though there definitely are some who play the system.

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ninja__girl_@reddit

If we all waited until we could comfortably get by financially, there wouldn't be that many people having kids 🤷‍♀️

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derekclysdale@reddit

Because they like the sex bit.

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divorcedhansmoleman@reddit

It was much harder to be poorer in the decades before now. Nowadays not just the benefits, free school meals, vinted, Facebook marketplace, free kids entry to attractions for UC claimants. Before there was sky or nothing. Now you can have freeview or Disney plus etc.

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MPD1987@reddit

Many reasons. A lot of them don’t realize how much kids actually cost, sometimes it’s the old “well we didn’t have much growing up, and we were just fine!” argument, and it’s often a myriad of other things. Never any winners

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mumwifealcoholic@reddit

That’s not a prevalent issue other than in the minds of dimbulbs.

Within a decade we’ll join other nations who are begging their people to have children.

We are not having enough kids.

Stop shaming people for having kids.

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goblinpeets@reddit

Is not having kids as a nation a bad thing, though, if those kids are born into poverty? 4-4.5 million kids are living in poverty. The government needs to be doing more to pull people out of poverty of course but ultimately having kids is a selfish choice for a variety of reasons - and I say all this as someone with a 10 month old

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FujiLightstalker@reddit

If they followed your logic you perhaps wouldn’t be here to comment. How does that sit with you? My take on it, having two kids and having experienced both fairly high and very low earnings is that kids don’t seem to affect your budget that much. When we were on the bones of our arses holidays etc were out of the question with or without kids. Strange how it works I’ve often thought. Not sure if that scales up to 5 or 6 kids though.

I also had none of the things you mention, but I’ve been able to carve out a half decent adult life, have travelled the world and have two awesome kids.

I would feel much poorer without them.

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Willing_Parsley_2182@reddit

I am 1 of 6 kids, and was born in a council house where my parents didn’t work. This gives context to the below, but now I’ve seen the other side as I’ve had a decent career so far. I’m 31 for reference.

To be fair, I think most people care more about having kids and that being the thing that brings their life joy. Lots of people just take the plunge and get by. It’s really down to what’s more important.

Even if you don’t have money there are plenty of things to do which are free / near free. Many free museums, national parks, picnics, family gatherings… the library was also a big feature and street festivals / parties. It doesn’t have to be doom and gloom. That’s what I did as a child and have fond memories.

For the life after 18, I’ve had a tough go (no house deposit, no university help, no contributions, etc). That being said, university gives you a loan to go - I had to choose a university which was a lower cost of living (definitely not London), to make it work and I worked all summer and saved for the year. Additionally, if you’re poor, you have maximum loan which you can just about get by on.

I’m glad to be here. I didn’t think it was all that bad. It was what I was used to and it don’t irreversibly damage me that I had one pair of jeans I had to keep repairing. I’m glad my parents didn’t overthink and decide against it.

Does it need to be more complicated than that?

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CreepyTool@reddit

Because people have a huge urge to have kids and then muddle through. Has always been this way for the majority.

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UKAOKyay@reddit

Well because being rich shouldn't be a precursor to having children, that's some weird eugenics shit you're chatting about there.

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PercentageNo3843@reddit

Why not you just make it work. It’s better than spending your days on Reddit

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Sea-Still5427@reddit

A lot of people grow up in circumstances where they don't learn to make a connection between the two, or even see not having children as a choice.

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Naive_Product_5916@reddit

Because if you think abortion is easy and acceptable in the UK, you're wrong. You still have to get two doctors and society is against you.

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JCGMH@reddit

I have 2 kids and a 3rd on the way, which in our case has all been planned and thought through short/medium/long term since the start. (We have a mid level income.) But even if our family had been “unplanned” I am sure we would have figured it all out in the end. People have been having children for quite a long time.

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Total_Fly_2628@reddit

I don’t know. Life isn’t always about money.

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MelodicSeaweed-@reddit

The problem is.. there is never a right or wrong time to have children, there never has been & sadly, for most, there never will be. I was discussing this with a friend the other day, she’s older than me (in her 60’s), I’m about to turn 40 in August. I made the difficult decision not to have children of my own after 2 miscarriages in my early 20’s, & finding out I not only had PCOS, but in my mid 20’s I had a genetic chronic disability that was not only degenerative, came from my mum, but there was a 50:50 chance of passing it on, & I simply didn’t want to take that risk (mum knew nothing about having this condition). We’re so fortunate in this day & age to find so much stuff very cheap second hand or next to nothing, I’m talking brand new clothing, cots, furniture, books, everything a child may need, when once a upon a time almost everything had to be brand new & you relied heavily on gifts or saving as much money as humanly possible. There are many, many opportunities now to take children on completely free days out, I watch quite a few frugal living individuals from pensioners to the disabled (which is my category) to parents just getting by due to circumstances changing, & their kids have never ever gone without, they make it work every single holiday from school, plan it all out, give the kids choices, etc. You can make anything work if you put the time & effort into it, just like many parents on the breadline have done for decades. You can’t stop people procreating, it’s a natural instinct for many, not to mention ‘accidents’ (for lack of better wording) happen, circumstances change, you may be in a really good financial position one minute and everything goes to buggery because of an unexpected health issue, businesses going into administration, etc. We as humans have been through so much worse & have always come out the other side. How we ourselves were raised should be no reflection on how we raise our kids due to financial strains, the world is everyone's oyster. What i will say though is that far less people are deciding to have children than ever before.

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Knowing_Eve@reddit

It’s our most natural automatic path. A desire. It’s quite literally built into our biology as a main function. Reproduction.

Just because society has been created in a flawed illogical way that doesn’t facilitate a main part of our being, doesn’t just mean that that drive is erased. It’s a part of us. Would lions stop mating because a currency created by some random lions once upon a time meant stuff? No. lol.

Humans, weirdest animals ever

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Sackyhap@reddit

There’s many animals that literally kill off their runts as resources are scarce and they want to improve the raising of their strongest offspring.

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FiendyFiend@reddit

Humans are actually more or less the only species that continues to reproduce during food shortages, stressful situations etc.

Almost every other animal has the ability to halt reproduction, prioritise their basic needs and stop breeding when the conditions are wrong.

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XihuanNi-6784@reddit

Well said!

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raquille-@reddit

Certain type of person. We waited until we were financially sound and owned property and had good jobs plus I wanted to party in my 20’s and early 30’s. No idea why pelel have kids so young or can’t afford them/ don’t you want to go travelling and see the world? I was 39 and my wife was 34 when we had our first kid.

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goblinpeets@reddit

What I find a bit curious with it most of all is having children so, so young which a lot of Brit’s do. A lot of times these young parents (18/19) don’t have jobs either. So not only why have a child that young when you don’t have a job but why have a child so young when your own life is really just beginning? There’s a whole world out there to explore and you’re just accepting that for the next 18 years you’re not going to get to do much, if any, of that.

I work in benefits and it’s genuinely shocking to me how many people I meet who had a child between 16-21 and they’re my age (33) with 4 kids, not working or working part-time. I just don’t get it.

I’m one of 4 as well, my parents did have jobs but we struggled a lot. I’d a lot of friends whose families were flush, one in particular went skiing a lot, holiday to South Africa and Christmas in Oz. I would have been so lucky.

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Reeelfantasy@reddit

When you have nothing, you’ve nothing to lose. It’s also a way of punishing the government

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Plenty-Spell9353@reddit

Did you have food and a roof over your head? Then they made it work. Having children is a natural biological urge. All this money and materialism is manufactured.

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

No actually… We were being kicked out of flats/houses as my parents couldn’t afford the rent to put a roof over a 6 person family’s heads… And we were lucky to have 2 meals a day for most of my younger years.

It’s not “materialism” to question why we were put in that situation, as no child should be born into that.

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Adventurous-Idea1473@reddit

right! i was raised in a similar situation and no i did not always have food or basic necessities. its cruel to bring children into that.

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

It is unfortunately super common. I don’t mean for my opinions to seem cruel, but I have experienced it first hand. Especially given the area I lived in was one of the poorest in the UK, I saw a LOT of parents like this. And unfortunately that meant a lot of children with no support in life, going down rough paths. It does mildly infuriate me after living it.

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SignificantSleep68@reddit

So in that case it can sometimes be an issue of going along with what everyone else is doing. Then the children end up doing the same as the parents. They don't always know that there's a way 'out'. People became reckless or they are uneducated or accidents can happen. People don't always see the possibility in the long term of getting a job and gaining freedom from benefits and in the long run being better off. Then once someone has been out of work for a length of time it can be difficult for them even mentally to look for and gain employment. Imagine thinking along the lines of 'I could get a job but it needs to fit in with nursery/school hours (very limited) but then I will miss out on x,y z benefits. Or I would like to do that job but I don't think I can, I'll just get by...' I would also say there is a benefit trap, where people just can't justify going out to work, paying childcare, transport etc just to earn a tiny bit more than what they are paid from universal credit or whatever. So they just have another child because they enjoy it but I do agree that continuing to have children when struggling is irresponsible especially if basic needs are not being met.

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Mendel247@reddit

This is a really insensitive comment. Not all families have stable housing and that's been shown to have lifelong impacts on people. I agree everyone has the right to have children, but don't pretend some people haven't suffered because consecutive governments have stripped away social support while continuously allowing the cost of living to rise.

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LucyLovesApples@reddit

Because they know they’re entitled to benefits especially now they’ve scrapped the two child cap.

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CraigTheBrewer12@reddit

I was the third child of parents on benefits and we struggled like hell, I was regularly bullied at school for wearing hand me downs amongst other things, it was horrible.

To be fair though, I don’t think it’s as prevalent an issue as the press and media would have you think. The media love to pick up on those occurrences so they can further demonise people on benefits, “LOOK AT THESE SCROUNGERS, TAKING HANDOUTS AND POPPING OUT KIDS SO THEY DONT HAVE TO WORK” is the type of headline they love to run.

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snowdrop0901@reddit

Religious reasons....personal reasons....sometimes its not as easy a choice.

Theres no perfect method of not having children beyond abstinence, which can also be easier said than done.

Sometimes the world just fucks you over. You may be perfectly set right now, decide on kids, 2 years down the line, you lose your job and then bit fucked. Similar to how someone doesnt choose to be homeless.

Finaly....sometimes it loops back to being personal reasons, if you were braught up that way, and so were your parents and your partner, and so on....it makes no difference to you. Not going away or having days out ect is normal family stuff for you. Just like how some familys go out every weekend and go away 3 times a year. Thats just how things are for them.

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gogul1980@reddit

can't afford the condoms

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Serious-Top9613@reddit

My friend has several kids and doesn’t have a stable income. Her mother was the same (had several kids, never had a job, and lived on benefits). Her father was (and still isn’t) in the picture. Not going to say too much, but he legally wasn’t allowed to be around kids (iykyk). And my friend’s mother didn’t want him around because of it either. Hence why she left him.

(She also gave me permission to post this, before anyone asks).

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kb-g@reddit

The urge to have children from a biological point of view is really strong for some people. I think also for some people a relationship isn’t “real” unless they’ve had a child. There are also lots of people who are terrible at planning ahead or just assume things will work out. I also know plenty of people who have more kids because contraception fails or just isn’t used and they can’t stomach a termination.

There’s also a big cultural thing for some people- you have kids because that’s just what you do. There can be a huge external pressure on couples to have children. There are plenty of people who think others are selfish for not having children- a bonkers perspective IMO- or consider anyone who’s childfree to be judging them for their decision to have children.

Also, children bring a lot of joy. If life is very hard and you can’t ever see a future where you are financially stable, what’s the point of denying yourself the pleasure that children bring? Finances will never be good, what does it matter if they’re worse? I’m not saying I agree with this, but I can see if you’re someone with minimal qualifications and skills, limited ability to improve either, you know you’ll always be on minimum wage in crappy jobs that give zero satisfaction, your future will never include even renting a home in a “good” area and you’re only ever going to have whatever crumbs the state pension offers if you ever even reach retirement then wouldn’t you want to do something that brings you joy? I’m not saying these are circumstances in which I’d want to parent, but I can understand the logic.

There are excellent parents and happy families at every income level, and terrible parents with dysfunctional families at them all too. I think it’s harder to be a good parent and offer a good childhood under financial stress, but it’s certainly not impossible. Children can still have a very empty and neglected childhood even with very wealthy parents.

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mccninja@reddit

Unprotected sex + the govs will pay you when you have kids

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GeorgianGold@reddit

I asked my Mum why they had me and Mum said, " The world needs poor people too you know!"

I thought she was wrong then and I'm damn sure she's wrong now!

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Accomplished-Sky8768@reddit

Yeah, in my eyes that is selfish to do. And people say not having kids is selfish...

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Environmental_Peak43@reddit

The birth rate in the uk is actually going down. There may be misinformation about contraception. Girls and women worry about weight gain even though pregnancy makes you gain more weight. Abortion isn't an easy choice and not for everyone. It might not seem like a big change of lifestyle if you are already poor. There's more people though postponing or not bothering becoming parents as it's too expensive. Very bad news for the overall future economy. We need need new tax payers to pay for pensions and services we need.

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AdonisCarbonado@reddit

Biological desires. To find purpose. To correct mistakes. In the search for unconditional love. The belief or thought that conceiving isn’t possible. Understanding that there is no other reason for our existence as humans other than to create more life.

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Remote-Pool7787@reddit

Because for the majority of people, there’s never going to be a good time to have children. And economically, we need people to have children! Statistically it’s better that your parents had 4 of you than 1 of you

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BroodLord1962@reddit

It's called selfish stupidity

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Dull_Conversation669@reddit

Because it is the literal purpose of life. To pass genetic information to the next generation.

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Superb_Literature547@reddit

kids = benefits.

especially if you can get them into a special school hence why that is also growing massively .

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LeopardNeat899@reddit

Because they believe every one else should pay for them.

Childcare - Tax Payer

House - Tax Payer

Child Benefit - Tax Payer

Part Time Job - Salary Topped up by Tax Payer

Sick Pay for Childcare - Employer

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jake_burger@reddit

Funny that you think it’s working people who get all that money, because what I see is

Childcare businesses getting billions.

Landlords getting billions

(Child benefit) shops getting billions

Employers getting subsidised wages.

Parents aren’t sitting on mountains of wealth are they? All that money goes into the economy and the only people really benefitting are the rich, who then convince everyone to blame the poor for “costing” too much money.

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LeopardNeat899@reddit

Explain how these two are benefiting from tax payer. the same...

Single, Female, No Job, 3 Kids, Renting.
Single, Male, Full Time Employee, No Kids, Mortgage.

I'll help you out, omg 25% discount on council tax. Whopee Do.

I can give you an endless list of what Number 1 can claim.

Number 2 can 'jog on' as they say and continue paying tax.

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minadequate@reddit

Because when you can’t afford entertainment and holidays sex is free, especially if you’re not buying any condoms.

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Mundo7@reddit

where do you get this free sex please, asking for a friend

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XihuanNi-6784@reddit

It's free after you get into the relationship, sorry, mate. We should have been clearer.

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ButterscotchTop194@reddit

Some people do it for the child benefit payments. Means they don't need to work.

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Nowayafter@reddit

Do you know how much child benefit actually is? £27.05 a week for the eldest child and £17.90 a week for any subsequent children. It’s paid every 4 weeks which would work out as £323 for 4 children. That wouldn’t even cover two weeks worth of food shopping for that many kids so I doubt people are having that many babies for the child benefit payments!

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ButterscotchTop194@reddit

Yeah, that's fuck all. I dunno, am just relaying a common answer in my neck of the woods.

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jonschaff@reddit

The Giggiddy

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MaltDizney@reddit

Changes in life circumstances after conception (e.g. employment, divorce)
Unplanned pregnancies, drunken flings, teenage mishaps and accidents etc.
Getting older so it's "now or never"
Strong support network + "we'll figure things out" mentality.

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Neo-Cobra@reddit

Benefits

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pretty_pink_opossum@reddit

I wonder what the overlap is between people that moan about people having kids being benefit scroungera Vs the people that moan about there being too many immigrants and "British people should just have kids"

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R0gu3tr4d3r@reddit

Sex is free.

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Pitiful-Ad5290@reddit

Is it not a case of the more kids more benefits these days 🙄

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40something_milf@reddit

I find it bizarre that benefit only households continue to have children since the child benefit ban of having more than 2 children came in to play a few years ago (UK). Knowing that not only are the kids you already have are going to suffer, but the child you are bringing into the world is going not going to have their basic needs met, blows my mind!

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BellendBuilder@reddit

People like shagging

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Agile-Quail-3679@reddit

Are you one of my many siblings? You've almost described my exact upbringing lol. I think more often than not the children growing up in that environment (no holidays, no extra-curriculars, no financial support with driving or further education etc) grow up and repeat the cycle as the struggle is all they know, until someone says FUCK THIS and breaks the chain. Late 30s here, no children and no plans to.

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

It’s SO common isn’t it! Only now being at university, surrounded by (respectfully, higher class individuals) others I realise how not normal it all is. I will work hard and break that circle, just like all of my siblings are working hard to do. I have no plans of having children until around 30, when I have my doctorate and a secure job.

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Plane-Trip-3928@reddit

People want children, regardless of their socio-economic status. You might as well ask why do poor people want to eat food.

If only the affluent and middle-class had kids, then our already low birthrates in the west would become next to non-existent.

People should always be working and contributing. To the family and society. If work was rewarded with a livable wage it would not only incentivise more people to do so, but give their children a higher quality of life.

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pingusaysnoot@reddit

Someone I know comes from a generation of people who have lived their entire lives on benefits. It's all they've ever known and have been allowed to make excuses to not work.

He's just got his girlfriend pregnant who hes only been with for 5 months - and he has no intention of going to work to support the baby. His reasoning is 'well I won't be much better off going to work than I am on benefits' instead of saying 'I'd like to lead by example and show my child how to be responsible and stand on their own two feet.'

Makes me genuinely so angry at that attitude. There's nothing wrong with him but he's happy to start a new generation of claimants.

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ultraboomkin@reddit

The human race would not exist if most people didn’t have the biological urge to reproduce. Personally, that gene skipped me, but people like me who don’t desire to have kids are the minority. Most people will have kids, regardless of economic or societal factors.

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LavenderClouds6@reddit

We are more advanced than animals though. We dont just succumb to primary instincts to breed. We think of outcomes before we make decisions.

People who are clearly not in a state to have kids but do so anyway, arent a victim to "biological urge to reproduce". They were just careless and selfish.

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maersyl@reddit

I have no real urge to have children and, I know I’m in the minority here so I do apologise, I often get a bit weirded out by people who make their entire existence about having kids etc. probably because they’re the same people who question me about my nonchalance to the whole thing.

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TheUnSungHero7790@reddit

My ex has 4 kids (aged between 2 and 8 at the time) and I found her house chaotic and yes she was always struggling for money.

I think most go for this situation if they themselves grew up in a similar situation and she did.

She didn't grow up going on nice holidays, days out etc etc but she is part of a large family that are all close, all live nearby each other and help with the unlimited amount of kids in the family etc which is actually nice and cosy in alot of ways despite it having it's down side.

I love my family but we don't live in each others pockets, quite the opposite intact, we would be at someone's side in an instant in an emergency but can go weeks without speaking, and growing up our house was quiet, we didn't have guests and wider family round all day everyday.

I prefer my situation but it is what I am used to, my ex prefers hers and that's fine too.

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thattrailerguy@reddit

yeah this is a really good way to look at it.

what seems like a struggle from the outside can feel normal or even positive, if that’s how someone grew up. if you value close family, community and having people around, the trade offs might not feel as heavy as they do to someone with a different upbringing.

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highrouleur@reddit

Sex is fun

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DarthFlowers@reddit

For Facebook likes

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jimmywhereareya@reddit

When you're skint and can't afford to go out and enjoy yourself, an early night with your loved one is free, plus you're probably distracted by the financial worries and forget about contraception... Possibly

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Hunter037@reddit

People don't consider how expensive kids are or only think about the short term cost of having a baby, not long term of having kids, teenagers, young adults...

People don't take into account loss of earnings from maternity leave and working part time.

People fall pregnant accidentally and don't want to have an abortion

People assume the state will make up the shortfall

Social pressure / family pressure.

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MirabellaJean962@reddit

Hard agree with your 1st paragraph, I genuinely think many people (I will have to say mainly women in this case) only really focus on "having a BABY" without thinking that the baby will be a todder, kid, teenager etc. And the financial sacrifices that will involve later.

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Hunter037@reddit

And while the baby stage can cost a lot in terms of lost earnings, the actual cost of having a baby is pretty low (especially if breastfeeding). But having a kid at university costs a fortune!

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Internet-Dick-Joke@reddit

I mean, if your parents grew up with no days out or leisure activities, no financial help for university (or just not attending) and no financial help for driving or financial help for necessities, then they likely wouldn't have though about being able to afford those things for their own children.

The costs of raising children haven't exactly been static, either. Just to use your example, if you're old enough to be worrying about university then your parents likely grew up at a time when university was free, and had kids at a time when it was either free or £3K per year, with generous student loans and bursaries that you could genuinely live on and far more opportunities for part-time work for university students. They also would have grown up in a time where you could get a decent job straight out of school with no need for university. Your parents would not have been able to predict higher education becoming as expensive as it is, or the job marker becoming as strained as it is. Similarly, they would have no way to predict that the housing market would become so strained that their adult children would struggle to pay rent while working full-time. If they grew up with reliable public transport and no burning need to drive, then they wouldn't have been thinking about whether or not they can support you to drive.

A lot of the costs of giving your kids a good start in life have either increased exponentially in recent years, in a way that has been hard to predict, or are things many people now raising children did not get growing up and so often don't think about for their own children. As a result, people just don't factor them into the decision.

This is all before we factor in that sometimes kids happen by accident, sometimes people are subject to social or family pressure to have children, sometimes people's circumstances change after having kids, or just the fact that the whole economic climate right no is so volatile, nobody can really plan around it if they want to have children.

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

Really insightful points which I appreciate!

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antc6249@reddit

I guess it’s because people believe you can’t put a price on family. Rich or poor, having your own family is a wonderful thing, despite the challenges that come with it. Are you suggesting that having a family should be reserved only for rich people?

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Insideout_Ink_Demon@reddit

Reserved for the rich? No. Have a level of resposibility to decide if the life ou create will have a good quality of lfe, yes

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Adventurous-Idea1473@reddit

as someone who was raised in poverty, it was definitely not a 'wonderful' thing

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EscapeSuitable9579@reddit

Sex accidents lol, benefits, the dreams of having a large family and not letting things hold you back from doing so.

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WordWizardx@reddit

1) You’re too broke to do anything else, but sex is free 2) Oops, preggers. Surely we can make this work. 3) Damn, babies are expensive! But I love the little gremlin so I’m gonna do what I can 4) Damn, now there are four of them 5) What do you mean my teenager is pregnant?

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RandomPi31@reddit

Because they can't keep their pants on. If you can't pay for my hobbies don't expect me to pay for yours.

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LavenderClouds6@reddit

Immaturity or selfishness.

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Squeak_Stormborn@reddit

I'm not saying it's okay - I waited until I was 37 for this reason - but being broke doesn't take away the desire to have children. Not everyone gets the intense biological urge to do so but when you do, it is STRONG. We also don't want to be in a place where only rich people can procreate.

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Glittering_Vast938@reddit

Same I was one of four as well. Left home at 17 and have supported myself ever since. Always worked.

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Broken_Woman20@reddit

Unplanned or ill thought through, maybe? When you’re in late teens or early 20s it’s difficult to know how financially draining it is having a child.

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Curious_Procedure606@reddit

because they don’t have any other goals, achievements or aspirations therefore they have a child to fill that. and they continue to have more children so their excuse for not amounting to anything is “well i had my children to look after so i did it all for them”

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c19isdeadly@reddit

Without meaning to be funny, have you asked your parents?

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

She only answered in reference to my youngest sister, who has a 10/15 year age gap with the rest of us. She said she always wanted one more child, and as she was getting older she didn’t want to miss the opportunity. So she had her at 45… With no job, and no job on my dad’s side either. She now has no interest in raising my sister, spends no time with her etc.

It’s almost like she wanted a baby/toddler, but not a child/young adult to care for. Although my experience with my parents is definitely why my opinions on this are so harsh.

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DollySheep32@reddit

Honestly, lack of adequate sex ed in school. Not just "use a condom" but "here is the reality of having a child".

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Technical-Badger-Esq@reddit

Ya mum likes cream pies. Dunno what to tell you 🤷

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mh1ultramarine@reddit

Are you familiar with the plot of idoitcrazy?

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Interesting_Log_4050@reddit

Next time, we'll make sure you're not born.

To answer your question, you might go to any third world country and start ranting at them.

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WelshBen@reddit

I don't think they actually put that much thought into it. They just go ahead and do it.

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Sirlacker@reddit

Fucking is free and makes you feel good. The consequences don't come until you find out you or your partner is actually pregnant and then ethics get involved.

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Legitimate-Soil7109@reddit

The urge to have children isn't dependent and economic intelligence or safety

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Snoo93102@reddit

Because people persue sex rather than stability. Its no real mystery this one. The system is not designed for humans.

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MirabellaJean962@reddit

Idiocy, simple as

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Reasonable-Isopod736@reddit

Having kids isnt actually that expensive.

Raising them well is though.

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Warburton379@reddit

Because like all life we have a primal urge to reproduce.

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Mald1z1@reddit

If you dont work, having an extra child doesn't cost you any extra money apart from food.

I hate to be curt, but alot of days out in the UK are free for kids. Especially if you live in a city. Alot of parents claim they cant take kids out due to expense when actually its because they dont want to or dont know how to plan these days within a budget. I know alot of people from impoverished backgrounds who claim they cant take their kids out due to expense but then won't take them to the library, museum, beach, park, farm etc which are all free.

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Derries_bluestack@reddit

I think that a lot of sensible, cautious people have delayed having children or are not having children because they can't afford them. We see it here on Reddit anecdotally, they can't buy a house and are reluctant to commit to children unless there are two salaries and maternity leave.
Sadly, I think that many of the people having lots of children don't care about the consequences. They're following a biological urge without knowing how they'll provide for them. Or they are feckless with contraception. Which can't be justified in a country where contraception is freely available and widely encouraged.

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clutchnorris123@reddit

Me and the misses got drunk and 9 months later we had our daughter and I wish we were more financially stable and managed to plan it even though I love my daughter more than anything. I'm a depressed, undeducated cunt with no prospects and the misses has a masters degree in international law but can only find work as a carer where we live and I can't find anything to fit around our daughter. We can barely afford anything tbh and it isn't an enjoyable way to live but thankfully our daughter is too young to understand at the moment I just hope it gets better because no one should have to live like this kids or no kids.

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Randster78@reddit

Because we're told to both by society and to a certain extent by your bodies (at certain ages). The "game of life" checklist of school, job, mortgage, kids just gets reinforced generation upon generation. You're at school "what do you want to do when you grow up", you get a job "when you going to buy a house and settle down" you get married/in a relationship "so when you having kids?" - this default small talk just keeps hammering it without looking at any of the details.

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AJ_Stangerson@reddit

How do you think children were brought up for most of human history? Even indoor toilets weren't a universal thing in the UK until the 1980s.

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RepeatButler@reddit

Either they are addicted to sex, addicted to having having more children, are not particularly bright or want benefits.

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EconomicsAfraid7880@reddit

Maybe they think child benefit will plug the gap, maybe they just dgaf and want kids.

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Reckless3gg@reddit

Ngl you have just said my childhood. My parent s had 4 kids. Everything that could be pawned in would, but only my stuff weirdly. Getting bullied at school because my shoes had holes in them, or because i didnt play the latest COD. No money mostly due to being stood by my dad at the arcade and then get blamed for when he lost.

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BeneficialJuice2878@reddit (OP)

That is awful to hear… Gambling addictions in any form are a horrible thing and really destroy families more commonly than people think. Unfortunately just that put a major impact on your childhood. I’m sure you will do better to break that cycle and do everything you can for your future kids. Good luck!

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Truthandtaxes@reddit

Kids to folks on benefits are more free money with no need to work and better leverage on housing.

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Early_Enthusiasm_787@reddit

Some times it’s a cultural thing. Don’t believe in contraception or abortion.

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L-0-T-H-0-S@reddit

The existence of any species isn't dependant on perceived ideas' of some ideal paradigm - nature deals with uncertainty by outnumbering disadvantage in the hope at least some of our genes will survive.

Just because we wear fitbits and use the internet, it doesn't mean we've so much as touched the sides of breeding that imperative out of ourselves, even though it may seem a hiding to absolutely no where - this is how we as a species were made. It's what we do.

We breed.

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nintair@reddit

The twin forces of Patriarchy and Misogyny alongside the expectation of the nuclear family as a sort of benchmark or status symbol. The default goal almost, very much tied in as an expectation of manhood. Also abortions are non-trivial to access and the power imbalances in some relationships will prevent the use of contraceptives which arn't always available. Also generally poor sex ed and lack ofaccess to family planning services

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Glittering-Round7082@reddit

Reproduction is a very strong urge.

Sex is also a very strong urge and it's only recently where we could control birth medically.

We would go extinct without reproduction so it makes sense that we make it a priority in life.

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shopinhower@reddit

Mixture of stupidity, selfishness, and an inability to predict the long term consequences of their actions.

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