Vaughn Gittin Jr. Accuses Car And Driver Of Using AI After A Negative Review Of His 800 HP Mustang That’s Slower Than A Mustang GT
Posted by DJMagicHandz@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 128 comments
dragonitexy@reddit
Oh he's hurt badly. Lmao
carpenj@reddit
To be fair, it's "ready to rock!!!!!" which doesn't necessarily mean it's fast at all. Just means they...can rock, I guess?
GoBSAGo@reddit
“The Mustang 🤘”
And it’s slow and expensive.
R_V_Z@reddit
Ready to buttrock, then.
Adjective_Noun1312@reddit
Nickelback intensifies
"... but don't actually look at this graph, because we're really mad the article contains measured data rather than subjective feels about the car"
Huge_World4801@reddit
Hahaha! Creative!
RunninOnMT@reddit
What I think of every time I see his RTR badge
“Are we ready to rock??? Okay!! Everyone on the left side of the car, push! And everyone on the right pull! Okay! In rhythm now! Push! Pull! We’re rocking it guys! We’re doing it!!!”
DONTuseGoogle@reddit
ReTaRd?
Noobasdfjkl@reddit
c'mon man...
Dirty_Pee_Pants@reddit
Agreed
Greengiant304@reddit
I hate the stupid RTR grille lights. Every time I see them I think Really Tacky Rice.
dragonitexy@reddit
They're a lil tacky but by far not the worst mustang mod (coughcoughLOUVREScough)
Lucreth2@reddit
I actually kind of like them :( I feel like they're borderline tacky but if the rest of the car is appropriately aggressive, I think they work.
aquariuminspace@reddit
I have them on my '19 S550 (facelifted). They're thinner and less nostril-y than the S650 ones and imo work with the car a bit better. I actually liked a lot of the cosmetic RTR stuff for my gen of Mustang, with the S650 I feel like you gotta go all in to make it work and preferably in an attention-grabbing color. Not a fan of the new Spec 5, doesn't do it for me at all tbh.
All that being said, RTR has definitely moved in to where Shelby was with Ford and is charging similarly ridiculous prices while performing similar antics. This response from them is completely out of line and is reminiscent of Shelby getting flamed last year over their defensive posts. The truth is they put mid tires on an 800 hp car, didn't upgrade the clutch, and didn't do enough to help a mostly stock Mustang put the power down... also similar to some Shelbys. I was excited to see RTR get closer with Ford and be more present, so this is really disappointing to me.
GymLeaderMatt@reddit
The exterior mods are as bad as Eleanor and people like that car god knows why.. 🤢
NaGaBa@reddit
Count me amongst your upvotes. The LED nostrils are highly dumb.
START DOWNVOTIN FOLKS, THIS ONE DON'T LIKE DUMB SHIT NEITHER
Greengiant304@reddit
I'm actually surprised how unpopular this opinion is. I thought those lights were universally hated.
NaGaBa@reddit
I'm not sure why they're popular but I think they're gaudy AF. Then again, I'm not much for flashy LOOKIT ME stuff in general
TheAsianTroll@reddit
Return To Rebuilder
Penguinho@reddit
Ready To Rock.
samurai1226@reddit
I don't quite get it. Does the 300hp addition all go up in wheelspin to go sideways or why does it fail to be faster than the regular GT? It's not like the GT is super fast, it actually quite stumbles to get the power down compared to a M2.
ZannX@reddit
Tires. The bane of all car reviews.
AZAnon123@reddit
What makes magazine reviews absolutely useless. Head to heads mostly test OEM tire selection and then they make up a bunch of bs about chassis dynamics when it’s just a bad or good tire.
Noobasdfjkl@reddit
They test the car they're given so they can test the car as new. Manufacturers bleat on and on about how they do specific chassis tuning for the tire they put on the car. If they put a control tire on the car, then OEMs complain about how the tire picked doesn't suit their particular chassis tuning if they lose.
The only way to meet journalism standards while being as fair and objective as possible is to test the car with the tires that come on it. Manufacturers are free to pick a better tire if you feel like the tire is bad. That's not the car mags' fault.
bigev007@reddit
But even the average enthusiast isn't going to go out and put a different set of tires on their brand new car to try and make it handle better. Unless it's for something specific like tracking it (or hard core off road)
AZAnon123@reddit
Sure but you have to take into account how big of a difference tires make. Or makes the 0-60, slalom, track times all a joke. I’d beat most modern sports cars/sport sedans in a Honda Odyssey on track if you give me Hoosier A8s.
Often they’ll get a review car that happens to the “summer 20 package” and it’ll have some cheater tire, head to head with some very similar car on the worst all seasons they sell. Car 1 wins the
yobo9193@reddit
It’s because they gave it summer tires that are objectively a downgrade from the OEM tires, but see to be loved in the drift community (Nitto NT555 G2, specifically)
Pyrochazm@reddit
Might be a camber issue as well. Drift spec cars tend to run a lot of negative camber, which is going to limit contact patch in a straight line.
snollygoster1@reddit
At that point I would say that the car should be coming with alignment recommendations for different scenarios. I believe the Corvette does.
Bonerchill@reddit
They don’t run a lot of negative camber anymore- they’re too powerful and entry speeds are too high.
It makes the cars look terrible, IMO. Drift cars should have fairly obscene camber to be low with good fitment.
Harry_Hardlong@reddit
They never had high camber in the rear, only in the front for grip while drifting.
InitialDuck@reddit
Street style cars definitely had a lot of cancer in the rear as well. But that was back when people had like 350whp SRs n shit.
Harry_Hardlong@reddit
350 wheel is very generous lol. That's what early pro guys where running and they had very little camber. Guys that had a ton of rear camber were like on stock power or like 200whp.
When_hop@reddit
Function > form
Always.
peaked-at-7@reddit
This isn't a drift spec car.
Pyrochazm@reddit
Ohhhh I thought it was.
PalmSizedTriceratops@reddit
I have no idea why they wouldn't leave the PS4S on the car lol
NT555s are a way worse tire, especially in the rain.
snollygoster1@reddit
It's even weirder because the Spec 5 does use PS4S's, and that kind of removes the "sponsored by Nitto" apparent need.
ChuckFinley_is4Ever@reddit
Just looked it up and the GT performance pack cars seem to have PZeros and the Dark Horses have Trofeo Rs. I have no experience with the TrofeoRs, but the PZeros suck. PS4S are quite a bit better imo.
FMJoey325@reddit
Trofeo Rs are basically a semi slick. People seemed to like them on the Z28 Camaro and funnily enough it was the track tire for the McLaren P1.
PalmSizedTriceratops@reddit
Oh I admit that I'm not up to date on what tires they run. I had bought a new S550 performance pack a few years back and it came with PS4S tires so I assumed they still did.
ChuckFinley_is4Ever@reddit
They started with Pirellis, switched to Michelins around 2018 iirc and then back to Pirellis around 2021/2022. I really wasn’t a fan of the Pirellis on my first S550, but loved the PS4S on my second S550 and my now 5BW. Just seems like a downgrade to me, probably saves them a few bucks tho. Think of the shareholders!
Penguinho@reddit
Which is interesting because Gittin specifically says they're using the NT555s because they're good in the rain.
dumahim@reddit
And claims to be less snappy when going beyond the limit. With the Mustang reputation, that could be a good thing. Still embarrassing to straight up be slower than a stock GT.
FurryHolocaustof2049@reddit
Because Vaughn is sponsored by Nitto.
PalmSizedTriceratops@reddit
I mean, yeah. But still lol.
Acting like that tire is better in the rain than the stock tire is WILD.
Penguinho@reddit
I think it's also (less so but still) because they're using the stock clutch so they don't void the factory warranty.
samurai1226@reddit
Then why aren't the tires some optional package? It sounds insane to pay Z06 money on a pure drift car. You don't need 800hp if you never get the power down anyway
JEs4@reddit
Yes. That was C&Ds conclusion regardless of what the tried to mitigate it. The car does trap higher than a GT but is slower in all timed metrics.
kevinatfms@reddit
Nitto NT555 G2's on an 800+hp car is flat fucking terrible. Im guessing RTR has some stupid deal with Nitto to supply the RTR cars with the rubber.
Put some sticky Pilot Sport Cup 2s or PZero Trofeo R's on it like they have on the PP2 or Dark Horse and i would bet it would be a different story. Turn it into a track monster.
peakdecline@reddit
Nitto is a long time sponsor of Vaughn Gittin Jr. RTR puts Nitto tires on all of their vehicles, including Nitto Recon Grapplers on their RTR Broncos (which is also by the way an absolutely terrible values at best).
Noobasdfjkl@reddit
Recon Grappler is a good tire as long as you don't drive in adverse conditions. For the task it's specifically designed for (rock crawling), it's great.
kevinatfms@reddit
Just looked it up...the 555 G2 debut was in 2015. Its an OLD tire with an outdated compound. Nitto isnt known for updating its compound over time.
The Mustang GT OE PS4S is a few years newer and is constantly updated for OE applications as Michelin is a Tier 1 supplier.
RTR shot themselves in the foot for a sponsor that isnt very good at what they do.
ChuckFinley_is4Ever@reddit
Did Ford start using Michelins again? They had gone back to the shitty Pirellis a few years ago, but I haven’t kept up with the S650 that closely.
kevinatfms@reddit
It does seem like they are all Pirellis now. I havent looked at the S650 either. Was just going back a few years for a better tire than the Nitto that was stuck on the RTR. As much as i hate Pirellis they are still worlds better than the Nitto G2.
Im guessing according to Tire Rack that the P Zero PZ4 is the OE tire for the 2026 Mustang GT w/ 255/275 staggered setup(which i believe is the performance pack?). So its a 220tw rated tire.
ChuckFinley_is4Ever@reddit
Yeah looks like they’re still with Pirelli. I wasn’t a fan of them at all when I had my first S550, and have loved the PS4S on both my second S550 and my current 5BW.
yobo9193@reddit
It still wouldn’t be a track monster; it would overheat on the first lap and then you’d pop the hood to see the same cooling system as a stock GT
megacookie@reddit
Also wouldn't grippy tires just fry the stock clutch all that much quicker?
Really all this is is a dyno queen and an appearance package
mallette1@reddit
If he’s more about developing a car that feels fun to drive instead of just generating good numbers, the MX-5 would like a word.
racer_24_4evr@reddit
The fact that he accused Elana Scherr of using AI is laughable. She is an excellent journalist.
bigev007@reddit
You can even see her on TV/YouTube. Lol
yobo9193@reddit
Dude gets mad that a magazine reviews their car with the same methodology as every other car they review, which shows how bad of a deal the car is.
He also ignores that they do, in fact, talk about the driving experience, which is worse than a Mustang GT, because Ford did a good job with the OEM chassis dynamics and going to a more drifting-friendly setup makes the car worse in every area that doesn’t involve drifting (surprise!)
Can someone who’s involved in the drifting world tell me if any of these RTR cars have a real purpose to them? Like is there some spec series that these cars are a ringer for? Because most drift cars that I know of start with a beat up car, not a $100k car with an expensive appearance package
SwissMargiela@reddit
I always thought RTR was like a Brabus for Mustangs like they just make them souped up and a few of them happen to be drift cars but I was never under the impression that was their main focus
DooceBigalo@reddit
Oh wow, not even close to the Brabus level.
SwissMargiela@reddit
You know what I mean, like they don't build their own cars. They take existing cars and build on them. It's just the first brand that popped into my head along with Mansonry because I don't really follow those types of cars and I thought Brabus was a better fit than Mansonry lol
Nhojj_Whyte@reddit
This is a weirdly common thing for Mustangs specifically. Even before Shelby America stopped their partnership with Ford for the GT500/350 they were also offering customized cars like this. As are Saleen, Roush, and RTR (and maybe even another whose name I can't remember rn). Pretty much every one of them boils down to an overpriced body kit and a supercharger (kudos to Roush that at least makes their own instead of just using a Whipple like everybody else). Now that I think about it, RTR may actually make the most actual performance changes of any of them with at least a widebody and camber...
They each have individual aspects of the design that are pretty cool, but I'd consider every one of their total packages to be a net downgrade, especially for the price and compared to choosing your own mods.
ETA: I may be thinking of Steeda as another one of these, but I don't know if they do packages like the rest. They're definitely more performance focused and don't deserve to be lumped in with the rest.
TopHatTony11@reddit
The Saleen and Roush mustangs actually performed better than the stock cars. Steve and Jack were actual racers and their cars were legitimately steps up from the OEM.
kc_kr@reddit
Meh. That was only because there was so much room for growth above the stock car and now that Ford has improved the performance of it so much, it’s harder to make it better.
lockpickerkuroko@reddit
I might be wrong but I vaguely recall Saleen (and maybe Roush) had different VIN numbers as they were registered as independent manufacturers. Kind of like RUF for Porsche, Alpina for BMW back in the day, or Nismo complete cars like the 400R/Z-Tune.
RunninOnMT@reddit
I agree with all of this, but also I saw a convertible s281 (?) from about 2005 on the freeway yesterday and it absolutely made me smile.
Which I think also supports what you’re saying here. Basically yeah, spot on.
Nhojj_Whyte@reddit
Saleen is a weird one for sure. I guess I can respect that at least they completely change up the bumper instead of just tacking stuff on like RTR or Roush (I say, with some stuff tacked onto mine). Saleen isn't really to my taste though; at best their version of the s650 is a side grade of a model that already doesn't look very pretty.
hoxxxxx@reddit
i see there's a lot of companies that do this now
biciklanto@reddit
Except that Brabus has made downright phenomenal cars and has a history of turning Mercedes into absolute monsters. To say nothing of wild projects like their crawler or 6x6 G-Class pickup.
I see what you’re saying, just pointing out that Brabus is well-respected, even if definitely not my style.
WPI94@reddit
I think people are confusing brabus with masonry
mkrock93@reddit
Was that intentional? Would not be easy but possible. „What is this countertop, granite? - nah its brabus g class black on black with red leather”
SwissMargiela@reddit
Yeah once again, y'all are putting waaayyyy more thought than I did into this. Literally was the first thing that popped into my brain like legit the first synapse that connected and I started typing.
biciklanto@reddit
Fair. :)
lique_madique@reddit
The 6x6 wasn’t even their invention. They just put a body kit and some tuning on a Mercedes 6x6.
No_Study3788@reddit
RTR had a moment 15 years a ago. Now I don’t really know who the customer is. It’s too millennial of a concept for the boomer money required to purchase one.
Also it feels like the ‘monster energy’ appearance package imo, not my cup of tea
Fundabz@reddit
They are that old??? WHAT
Eggith@reddit
Yeah, I think they really rose to prominence when Vaughn had that RTR-X made in 2010. That thing was everywhere and to his credit it was a pretty cool Mustang
RevvCats@reddit
They saw what Shelby American was getting away with and wanted a piece of the action.
peaked-at-7@reddit
The packages RTR sells are not drift focused in the slightest.
yobo9193@reddit
I’m being charitable because I don’t have the full details of what they did to the car. The front camber looks very pedestrian, so if they didn’t even include camber plates, Vaughn should be tarred and feathered
IMI4tth3w@reddit
The whole thing just reminds me of when Cleetus bought that drift spec mustang from him and could literally never get it figured out. Plus drift content wasn’t very hot with viewers (🙋♂️). Not that it wasn’t perfectly capable of doing cool stuff, it’s just that the reality is there’s more practical options that work better for the majority of people.
randeus@reddit
It’s not meant to be a drift friendly car. The tires are just absolutely garbage for a 800 hp car and it put its power down worse than a Hellcat.
Scazitar@reddit
RTR made some insanely terrible decisions to put themselves in this situation.
That being said the review is also kind of... silly?
Like I know they follow a methodology but it's certainly a ton of information that you don't really learn anything from exceptlike "if you buy the car you'll have to change the tires because they put ridiculous slippery track tires on it. God only knows how it drives without them."
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
Its not car and driver's responsibility to find good tyres though, they are reviewing the car as you'd get it from RTR, and the tyres single-handedly kill it
Totallyness@reddit
Goes to show that going fast isn’t just about maxing out horsepower.
Secksualinnuendo@reddit
I learned that in Forza
megacookie@reddit
My D-class cars with 1500hp would agree. They'll do a 6th gear burnout all day long but aren't going anywhere in a hurry.
lawszepie@reddit
That sure is my favorite challenge in Forza though, try to win races with a lower class car that has a billion horsepower engine swap and no grip, and TC off.
amaROenuZ@reddit
The ol' fifth gear start eh?
Marshall_Lawson@reddit
hello, we need to be friends on forza
GoldenState15@reddit
Tbf RTR does make some of the worst products for the money on the market right now
abattlescar@reddit
They follow after their dogshit drift team too. They're among the least interesting cars in FD and their suspension is fundamentally jank, but they'll go and bitch to the judges to get a win under literally any circumstances.
GoldenState15@reddit
Yea I've never understood their brand as a concept lol
Foolgazi@reddit
Funny thing is their second corporate response is the most AI-looking thing in the whole article.
Centillionare@reddit
0-60 in 4.7??? What?? I have a 2018 Mustang Ecoboost, and I’ve gotten 4.9 on mine, and on test tracks with professional drivers it’s a bit better than that. lol
The new Ecoboost Mustangs are 0-60 in like 4.5. So a new 2026 Ecoboost Mustangs are faster driving around town than this 800 HP monstrosity.
cameronfry3@reddit
More importantly, who the hell pays over $100K for a high-performance Ford Mustang that’s been enhanced by a tuner who’s known for DRIFTING?
Pretty idiotic.
I know people sh!t all over the Mustang GTD’s price point but you can’t say that the car isn’t worth it l, unless you have no idea who Multimatic is and what it is they do.
megacookie@reddit
Unfortunately I think a lot of these overpriced tuners are using the GTD's insane price tag as a way to highlight their car's "value".
"Can't buy a GTD? You can get our 800hp Mustang for half the price, and with a manual!"
cameronfry3@reddit
Entirely possible.
But, buyers (and occasionally, reviewers) aren’t stupid.
KillerKittenwMittens@reddit
Goes to show you everything is meaningless without a good tire and the nt555 is well, not that.
I know they fit nittos because they sponsor rtr, but a good uhp all season would realistically have more grip, lol.
Maximilianne@reddit
The problem is structurally accusing them of using AI is dumb, think about it,part of the appeal of being a journalist is driving the cars,and once you've driven the cars you can always just report on how you feel about it,and in fact to report anything else but how you feel opens you up to accusations of manipulation,and AI doesn't really help you cause your productivity is bottlenecked by the number of cars you have booked to review not by your writing speed
abattlescar@reddit
I think the only reason the use of AI would be a valid complaint here is if the journalist didn't actually drive the car and just had AI make up an entire generic-ah review.
84UTK07@reddit
What are these cars designed to do well? Drifting?
AutoimmuneDisaster@reddit
They build drift cars, or street cars you can slide. Not sure why people are expecting this car to outperform the factory car in straight line or grip performance. The results are the results, but you have to caveat that by saying how it performs at what it’s built for.
Imagine if they took a Lamborghini to a 4x4 testing ground and said “it’s pretty bad at off-roading”.
RTR mustangs are not built to break 0-60-0 records.
Previous_Platform718@reddit
People are expecting this car to outperform the factory one because they say it does on their website.
https://www.rtrvehicles.com/en-ca/pages/mustang-rtr-spec-3
It's built to be an all-around car, not a drift car. Their own marketing material says this.
"Whether you're looking for a comfortable daily driver, carving through canyons, drifting, or achieving optimal grip for track days"
"Whether you're on a spirited cruise or at the track, the Mustang RTR Spec 3 offers an exceptional driving experience for anyone behind the wheel."
"We took to the track with Billy behind the wheel of our 2024 Mustang GT in both stock and Mustang RTR Spec 2 trims. This testing, combined with nearly 20,000 street miles, allowed us to shave nearly 2 seconds off our lap times!"
"And for those searching for the ultimate thrill, dial it in for full-blown drift or grip on track day."
AutoimmuneDisaster@reddit
None of that goes to the 0-60 time or 60-0 time.
Anyway, as others have said, the car is just a good set of tires away from outperforming the factory cars.
It’s not outrageous to believe this car with its suspension setup did shave 2s off the stock 5.0 time around the track, even in the same form that had slower 0-60-0 time than the 5.0
Previous_Platform718@reddit
It's not just 0-60 and 60-0. The RTR has a slower 0-60, slower 60-0, slower quarter mile, and isn't capable of pulling as many lateral Gs as the GT that C&D tested. So while you might believe it shaves 2 seconds from a lap (on which track? not specified) It's otherwise worse in every metric.
I can agree with you there. Plus if I need to dial in the suspension on my own and buy a brand new set of tires on my already 110k car wtf am I doing with my life.
AutoimmuneDisaster@reddit
I just don’t think these cars are built for everyday consumers. I think it’s for the people who are going to put trofeo tires, and tinker with suspension adjustment to make the car right for their use case.
Will that be what most buyers do? No. But I think that’s the point of what they’ve built.
You can drive this car on the street comfortably, but you can also change the setup on the fly to be a great drift car, or track car.
East-Independent6778@reddit
"We have chosen the tires we chose because they are good in the rain and very progressive when it come to the limit, they also won’t require a tire change after a few donuts in my opinion they are the best all around Mustang tire."
Sounds like Mr. Gitten could stand to use some AI tools to help him with his own writing skills.
snollygoster1@reddit
Ah, I guess the Spec 5 must be worse "all-around" because it uses Pilot Sport 4S tires.
snollygoster1@reddit
Reading the review it appears like the car struggles due to the tires, and on the Spec 5 the tires are swapped out for Pilot Sport 4S. The tires feel like a huge oversight, and obviously with the Spec 5 having Michelin's rather than Nitto's as on the Spec 2 and 3 that means that RTR could've selected different tires if they needed.
costafilh0@reddit
"he used AI"
Ffs, how old are you? 5?
furrynoy96@reddit
How does a 800hp Mustang accelerate slower than a stock Mustang GT? Is that driver error or something wrong with the car?
snollygoster1@reddit
Bad tires it sounds like, which makes sense because the RTR swaps to Nitto NT555 tires which are about a ten year old design.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a70917527/2025-mustang-rtr-spec-3-test/
747WakeTurbulance@reddit
Wish they would tell the truth about Hennessy cars.
iatekane@reddit
Henry Catchpole did a pretty good review of the spec 5 RTR
https://youtu.be/c90c740zfH0
jrileyy229@reddit
So much nonsense and word vomit to just simply say that it had drift tires and not Michelins.
sioux612@reddit
Dude knew theyd test like that
Dude knew how unimportant longevity of the tires is
Either you put grippy tires on it if you want good numbers, or you ignore all the numbers bits because its not relevant
You cant get pissy at something you supposedly dont value
SaigaExpress@reddit
And this is why reading spec sheets and random test numbers, and other peoples opinions for that matter are irrelevant when it comes to ANY enthusiasts automobiles.
If all you care about is 0-60 and how many g’s a car pulls on a skid pad thats fine. But imo you arent a car enthusiasts if you can’t appreciate other things for what they are.
BassWingerC-137@reddit
Who?
Historical_Cable9719@reddit
The AI comment is laughable. Tires suck and getting 800hp to stick is not a guarantee. That response is just blah blah blah
TrueSwagformyBois@reddit
Sounds like they made a choice that fundamentally limited the capability of the car - they they have modified for performance, and don’t want to own that. I feel like the baseline of any modification company is that performance has to be better than what comes from factory.
If this is entirely down to tires, RTR should have been aware of this, and provided a set of tires for testing and a set for the road.
Major whiff.
didimao0072000@reddit
You know you're on the wrong side of the argument when, instead of addressing the valid issues, he resorts to an ad hominem attack. Asking people to pay more for less performance is a legitimate issue and absolutely deserves to be called out. By the way, his response looks AI-generated too.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
No rage bait, memes, trolling, copypasta, or low-quality joke posts or comments.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.