On April 10, 2010, Polish Air Force 101, a Tu-154, crashed near Smolensk, Russia, killing all 96 aboard, including Polish President, Lech Kaczyński, Polish officers & officials, and Katyn Massacre survivors; the plane crashed into trees in heavy fog while landing, & investigators found it was CFIT.
Posted by Shoddy_Act7059@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 65 comments
Read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolensk_air_disaster
Also, this is the second time I'm posting this (sorry about that), due to my first post, though unintentionally, furthering a conspiracy relating to this accident and how it was a deliberate act. I do not believe it was deliberate, for the record, but I do no want to further the conspiracy narrative in any way; so, again, I'm reposting this with that removed.
Also, this has been marked NSFW, as well, due to a torso (potentially) being visible in the middle of the first image.
223-Remington@reddit
Good god, the Russia Derangement Syndrome is on full display today!
It's just not possible that human beings make terrible errors! It always has to be politics! /s
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
There is a surprisingly amount of people here who say this was an assassination attempt, not Controlled Flight into Terrian.
Like, yeah, the country you mentioned has done A LOT of bad things (especially recently), but this is one of the few things I cannot see the 'deliberate' angle to it.
Lord_Master_Dorito@reddit
I just don’t see how Russia benefits from doing this which is why I don’t believe these conspiracy theorists. Accidents happen.
Tooluka@reddit
That's a very good test of the person in the internet. If they are peddling conspiracy theories for this flight, it's a clear red flag, since so much obvious evidence exist in the open. Same with MH17 and MH370.
Ok-Parfait-9856@reddit
I think the flight this thread is about was a genuine accident despite russias history of downing civilian aircraft but MH370 isn’t a conspiracy… the reconstructed route is identical to the flight sim route found on the pilots personal computer. And theres really no contrary evidence pointing to an accident. We can’t say for sure, but dismissing the evidence regarding MH370 as a conspiracy is just ignoring facts.
Tooluka@reddit
Regarding MH370, you are quite correct, there was that route and evidence of the suppressed mental issues, so it was a planned suicide, like the Germanwings disaster. The thing is that some fringe groups believe all sorts of things about it - that it flew to middle East and got hidden there, that aliens did it, that three letter agency bombed it because some guy was there who wanted to disclose aliens to the media, all manner of crazy things with zero evidence.
Ok-Parfait-9856@reddit
Ahhh I see I see, I didn’t know about all that, my bad man. No doubt the other stuff is crazy
Apprehensive_Pop4170@reddit
Dios que cuando accidentalmente de pequeño me apareció el cvr y lo escuché el grito final debe ser de los más perturbadores jamás captados
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
It is certainly up there as one of the most disturbing CVRs that got released.
Tooluka@reddit
Yeah. Also flight 612 Tu-154 CVR, they basically fell to their death for 3-4 minutes with no options. Depressing stuff.
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Oh, yeah, I know what one you are referring to. One of the younger guys in the cockpit actually said, "I don't want to die," and begged the other pilots to not let him die.
Believe it or not, there is actual footage. shot from people on the ground of the impact (well, fireball of the impact) on YouTube, and I think it's one of the oldest videos on YouTube to do this sort of thing. Also, you can hear the plane falling overhead in the background. Also, there is another video showing footage of people getting onto this fight hours before their deaths.
Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3fVkqk9MLw
Mogus00@reddit
Never heard about the Katyn Massacre survivors in the crash, imagine surviving a horrific massacre only to be killed in a plane crash
DestoryDerEchte@reddit
And in Russia of all places...
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Oh...I worded it poorly. It was RELATIVES of the victims on board, not the actual survivors (at least, from a quick glance at my sources again). It was the 70th anniversary of the massacre in 2010, too.
I may have to repost this again, ugh. My bad, sorry.
SlavaCocaini@reddit
You can say every slav is a Holocaust survivor like this too
covidisrealyo@reddit
The Polish distrust of Russia explains why conspiracies regarding this tragedy are so easily believed by many Poles. Russia’s never given us a reason to trust them.
However, the facts of the case are much easier to believe than any conspiracy. The pilots faced immense pressure to ensure that their passengers, made up of essentially the entire Polish government, arrived for the important anniversary of the Katyn massacre. Having the president and other officials breathing down their necks didn’t help. Landing in dense fog at an airport not properly equipped for such a landing attempt. Assuming the conspiracies are correct, how did Russia benefit?
It’s an absolute tragedy. Rather than letting the victims rest in peace, conspiracy peddlers (including the current president and leader of the Law and Justice (PiS) party) continue to baselessly claim that Russia was behind it all. Rather than argue, it’s better to just let the conspiracists have their own beliefs. Nod your head and move on.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
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kriskir2000@reddit
Actually, it was not CFIT. Newer investigation has proven, that actually it's been an assasination, made possible by Russians, who were responsible for constant airworthiness of this aircraft. I'll send the link to the investigation's results soon.
Also many Polish intelligence and investigation officials committed "suicides" soon after the event...
gusto_ua@reddit
Not a "crash", it was blown up in the air with a bomb planted on board by russians
iwlolwiwlolwi@reddit
Funny joke lol
ManufacturerLost7686@reddit
Is this the flight where they allegedly received incorrect settings from the tower for the altimeter and were flying lower than the instruments stated?
KSAWI0@reddit
Understanding each side is important, there is a reason why in Poland there is such a large cult of not believing that it was just an accident.
andis89@reddit
The only way to bring down a plane, is to shoot it out of the sky, or lead it towards a mountain.
daygloviking@reddit
How did Yoke Peter crash into the Mediterranean?
TruckyFurry@reddit
To be frankly, in Russia planes rarely crashing because of "just an accident".
sunsetair@reddit
Or Hungarian plane.... No report, no investigation.
Malév flight 240
ruskomate@reddit
This plane was shot down by Israel, that's 100%
TruckyFurry@reddit
I mean, it's just impossible to deny obvious lol.
sunsetair@reddit
Shhhhhhh.
ruskomate@reddit
They killed my peoples soo, I'll say what no one else will
dbratell@reddit
Depends on how you define accident. There was this pilot who accidentally let his teenage kid fly the plane...
TruckyFurry@reddit
Well, honestly, this case I wouldn't call "just an accident". Like, putting all high command in one plane after it got maintenance in Russia and flying to lead the mourning historical event, where Russia was guilty. AAAAAAND after President of Poland called Russia a "bitch" back in Georgia in 2008 (which I personally agree to). Well, it would be indeed weird if Russians let him live.
But yeah, Russia just dangerous to fly over or even nearby.
sunsetair@reddit
Well... Again. The word accident ally. The autopilot was accidentally got disabled.
mf104@reddit
Exactly. This wasn't CFIT.
sofixa11@reddit
Explain yourself. There has been zero credible evidence of anything else.
mf104@reddit
Make me.
Ok-Air999@reddit
PiS has politicized it long ago with their fraudulent investigations. For example in the most recent one they ordered an American report but the Macierewicz subcommittee purposely hid it because the report refuted the thesis of the attack.
Pancernywiatrak@reddit
I wish I could upvote this twice. It was crew error. PiS created outlandish conspiracy theories (like one saying that the wing was blown off by explosives)
Deadluss@reddit
I mean you haven’t heard what Russian soldiers for example did, for example looting bodies. Some phones for example were active 2 months after the crash.
KSAWI0@reddit
I'm more into to the subject than you think, there are too many things that don't fit together for it to be a typical CFIT disaster
Huberweisse@reddit
The pilots and procedures also had a massive share.
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
rybnickifull@reddit
Please don't give credence to deranged conspiracy theorists! Those people are indeed viewed as a cult here.
HolyBonobos@reddit
Obligatory link to u/AdmiralCloudberg article
pergatron@reddit
Cloudberg is the BEST.
dbratell@reddit
Fantastic article. Took a while to read but well worth it.
planeguy707@reddit
Definitely not an accident, it’s either a classic Russian interference like doing bad maintenance or it was poor atc guidance to deliberately confuse and stress the pilots more and increase chance of major errors which will lead to a crash.
Hot take: There is a possibility that the politicians onboard (including president) pressured the pilots to land despite the bad weather, not to get embarrassed like in Georgia (2008) when the pilots refused to land in Tbilisi citing safety concerns and landed in Azerbaijan which added multiple hours to the journey via land.
The same co-pilot from the Tbilisi refusal was also the co-pilot on the Smolensk crash.
Telepornographer@reddit
Have you read all the details about the crash? The airport they (the polish delegation) chose to use was a nearly-abandoned Soviet base that was re-staffed for this occasion only. It had no ILS, no VOR beacon, and its control tower was just a shed. Additionally, the crew of Polish 101 was inexperienced, had limited weather data of the airport, and committed a series of blunders that led to disaster. The Russian ATC isn't blameless, but they had a single Soviet era radar and made too many assumptions about the competencies of the Polish crew.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Tooluka@reddit
And the captain on that flight was the same person who was a first officer on a similar flight a few years back, when Kaczyński in a similar way abused authority and issued demands to the crew and later fired the captain for revenge, after he disobeyed. Imagine that you are now in the exact same situation but you are the captain and you 100% know that you will be fired for disobedience. It is no surprise that captain folded under illegal pressure.
covidisrealyo@reddit
Your “hot take” is the more believable, and likely correct take. Your conspiratorial take for some reason assumes that the pilots had zero control of the plane. As if ATC had remote control of the plane.
Squawk1000@reddit
Poor ATC guidance? If anything, the controller working the approach radar was the one trying to dissuade the crew from continuing the approach and was reminding them of the minimum descent height, which the PIC ignored despite having no visual contact with the runway (they also used the wrong altimeter for the approach, so really the MDH wasn't even properly monitored). It's a pretty open-and-shut accident if you know anything about flying aircraft.
52-61-64-75@reddit
Don't your two points contradict themselves? "It was Russia! Definitely not an accident, but yes the pilots were pressured to act super dangerously in a manner that would cause an accident"
nomisman@reddit
What’s your point?
covidisrealyo@reddit
You’re one of those “Grok is this true?” type of dudes, aren’t you?
ThePrussianGrippe@reddit
Never heard of an anniversary before?
bluelily216@reddit
To learn new stuff, maybe? I didn't know this and I'm of the mind that once you stop learning, you stop living.
rudedogg1304@reddit
What’s yours ?
Aksds@reddit
That it happened 16 years ago today…
rockintomordor_@reddit
The polish president and people inconvenient to Russia on the same plane within russian borders?
If the russians did the investigation I guarantee it was a cover-up for a shootdown.
LoseItLardy@reddit
tupolev when its time to kill heads of state in suspicious circumstances 👋 😁
i_spill_things@reddit
The Admiral Cloudberg on this crash is excellent! https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/all-the-presidents-men-the-story-of-the-smolensk-air-disaster-and-the-death-of-lech-kaczyński-590a3977f
Educational-Tone2074@reddit
What is a CFIT in aviation?
Controlled Flight into Terrain (CFIT) occurs when an airworthy aircraft under the complete control of the pilot is inadvertently flown into terrain, water, or an obstacle. The pilots are generally unaware of the danger until it is too late.
Staylin_Alive@reddit
There is a joke in Russia: The first thing every new Polish President does is to dig out Kaczyński to blame Russia.
SmartRooster2242@reddit
One of the biggest proponents of the conspiracy theory is the Polish Presidents own brother which really doesn't help the situation at all or put to bed the silly allegations either.