A whole lot of this phraseology around social media today. Thoughts?
Posted by wasraelx@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 525 comments
Posted by wasraelx@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 525 comments
dcmathproof@reddit
Good luck earning a living wage from jail...
oofx99@reddit
honestly from what i've heard, prison is a hell of a deal with the barely living wages of this day and age. it's like living with ma and pop. you get fed, you get to socialize, and you get a roof over your head for the low low cost of free (unless you use the commissary stuff) but the only catch is you have a strict schedule and can't leave for a long long time.
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
Kimberly-Clark Distribution Center in Ontario, 29yo employee arrested over the arson, no casualties, no released damage assessment. Source
Shoddy-Childhood-511@reddit
It's funny, there are so many people arguing insurance will cover this, but that's only the owner, probably Kimberly-Clark.
This guys employer NFI has no insurance for their lost income. And NFI has long running disputes with the Teamsters, so this seems positive. lol
Also, insurance does not always cover damage by an employee. Kimberly-Clark might claim insurance coverage just to placate stock holders. Insurance rates shall increase regardless.
Around why the fire suppression failed. He lit one fire first. Fire Dept came, put it out and turned off the fire suppression, which is protocol. He then lit more fires once the Fire Dept left.
In other words, he double tapped the fire suppression, like the US, Israel, and Russia double tap first responders when blowing up bridges and schools.
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
Double tapping fire suppression is crazy work hah. Probably why it’s listed as ‘multiple felony arson-related charges’
CrimsonBolt33@reddit
Probably getting a charge for each small fire he lit which in the video I saw was at least 5 or so
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
Yea but he’ll get this as evidence of throughout planking and intent on top of that imo. Like, he’s probably getting a life sentence
pinkyepsilon@reddit
Life because he fucked with the money. Manslaughter is a lesser crime compared to fucking with the money.
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
Running a pedophile ring for decades is a lesser crime to fucking with the money
pinkyepsilon@reddit
Idiots put that pedo in the White House twice
hair_brained_scheme@reddit
I voted against that pile of slime 3 fucking times. For people not from the US, just know that many of us did not want that disgusting maniac near the White House and we honestly feel trapped in a burning building. A burning building in which we were not paid enough to live.
cant_be_me@reddit
And for those of us who saw and understand what was going on, part of the educational sabotage in this country meant that any effort to point any of this out to the people around us was usually met with “you’re just a smug asshole who thinks you have allllll the answers, huh???” or being dismissed as weirdo conspiracy theorists or paranoid agitators.
mikerbt@reddit
People will come demonize you for some reason, as a Canadian I see you as just as much a victim as the rest of us. You didn't choose this, or the decades propaganda and social engineering that led to it.
terrierhead@reddit
Thank you. I’m an American, too, who voted against all of this, warned everyone I could, and is horrified by it all.
ultrachem@reddit
European Turkish guy here. I curse those who plunged you and us into this abyss and I am sending my love and support to those Americans who stand for the values our countries used to exhibit. Turkey, like the US, was founded after a bloody liberation war for democracy, freedom and justice. Its undoing in Turkey due to democratic backsliding should act as a warning to you from us.
CatarroTitubante666@reddit
Bro, it was clear as day what kind of a criminal dirtbag he is at least since the 80’s, so fuck you
C-Redd-it@reddit
Idiots and cheating put that pedo in the Whitehouse
prudentWindBag@reddit
🗣TWICE, BRUV!!!!!
Falikosek@reddit
Soon it might turn out to be even more
MowieWauii@reddit
Wait- is that a crime?
TheQuietOutsider@reddit
put this man behind the Resolute Desk!
AtomicBearFart@reddit
Only if you don’t have money yourself though! And only if you fuck with rich people’s money. See: Bernie Madoff
guardedDisruption@reddit
Damn. This is a crazy way to think about it. (Not saying you're crazy, just that this would be the way that justice would be served in comparison.
kitsum@reddit
No, you're absolutely right, it is crazy. We live in a world where a dollar is a dollar. It's numbers, it's quantifiable. Everyone can agree. It's all there in black and white, written down, and those with a lot of dollars have built systems so they get more and more.
A human life though, what's that worth in this world? Well, that's a tougher question and it entirely depends on who you ask since nobody can agree on that one. Are you black? Brown? A woman? Are you wealthy? Who are your parents? What country do you live in? What religion? Can your death be exploited by someone for some of those dollars that we all agree have value? To a lot of people, plenty of others have no value at all.
CatarroTitubante666@reddit
Even dollars’ actual value shifts constantly (because of inflation and many other things), so we just don’t give a shit about other people’s lives (let alone if they’re non-human animals that we don’t consider worthy enough to potentially become our pets).
GarrisonWhite2@reddit
I actually disagree with your premise. Yes, numbers are quantifiable, but in practice the dollar doesn’t mean anything. It’s too fluid because it means whatever the powers that be say it means. It isn’t something that we agree on as a society.
Ragfell@reddit
I mean, when we can argue that someone isn't a person based on facts beyond "they're a human being", it's not surprising.
eresh22@reddit
It is crazy, and we need to remember how crazy shit is. I keep reminding people that it's not actually radical to want people to be able to survive on their pay. Make yourself a list of things you know aren't radical, so you can tell when the propaganda is starting to weasel in your brain.
BigHobbit@reddit
Child molesters and rapists rarely serve full sentences. Some serve no time and work in politics instead.
Da_Question@reddit
Only if your poor and fuck with the money of the wealthy or wealthy and fuck with the money of the wealthy (madoff). Absolutely not if you are wealthy and fuck with the money of the poor. Ridiculously low time served for refusing to pay wages or withholding wages, or embezzling from charities, and then you have Trump pardoning these assholes, which only costs them a portion of what they stole then they keep the rest.
Logridos@reddit
All it takes is one person on each jury to stand their ground. Jury nullification is how we send the message that we're done taking their shit.
forget-spaghet@reddit
Jury nullification is a totally different thing than a hung jury.
One person standing their ground means a hung jury and a new trial.
Jury nullification means the whole jury says: yeah we aren’t stupid we see that they did the thing, but it’s fucked up to sentence this person for this crime. Either the law is messed up to begin with and this shouldn’t even be a crime, or the punishment is way out of proportion, or for whatever other reason/circumstance etc we are unanimously saying not guilty anyway because they shouldn’t be punished for this.
wildwalrusaur@reddit
Yeah. You're not gonna be able to find 12 people who would get through voir dire who would vote to acquit here.
Best he can home for is a good plea deal
Ragfell@reddit
Well, the problem is that the jury's job is to determine if, beyond reasonable doubt, the person committed the crimes with which they were charged.
I had to serve on a jury for an attempted murder case. Based on the footage we had, 10/12 of the jury didn't think it was a premeditated murder but was a crime of passion, so we opted for the lower alternative offered by the judge (which iirc was attempted manslaughter).
But he absolutely committed aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. He slashed his vic 10+ times with a box cutter. (She lived, thankfully.) After everything he got 30 years, at which point he'll be in his 70s.
If the jury just blatantly looks the other way when this guy goes to trial, it means that they can no longer be trusted, which means that there will be less peace. That's not good for the fabric of society, even if we can agree with this guy's principles.
DorianGre@reddit
As an attorney, I am perfectly fine with a jury that decides a law is unfair or a prosecution is wrong and refusing to convict. Remember the four boxes of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box, ammo box. Use in that order. We don’t want to get to number four.
Ragfell@reddit
There's nothing wrong with prosecuting the guy for arson, especially when he literally recorded the proof himself. He did it. He committed arson.
You can say his motivation was good but ultimately what he did was a crime.
Candid-Mycologist539@reddit
You're right. There will be less peace if this guy is not sentenced.
But it's also not good for the fabric of society for things to continue as they have.
Voting is just not doing enough unfortunately. We can't keep up with the laws of fuckery passed and corrupt judges appointed between one ballot box and the next.
We 100% prefer a political solution, but after 40+ years of this shit, I'm running out of hope for that miracle.
pseudonym-161@reddit
Nobody should get a life sentence for property damage with no casualties.
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
Look at ELF too - they blew up a few ski lifts, always made sure there are no injuries, and got put on top of the FBI most wanted list for decades next to actual mass murderers and terrorists. In the UK, Palestine Action got proscribed as a terrorist organisation for smashing Elbit property and throwing paint at some RAF planes. And thousands arrested for just holding signs saying ‘I support Palestine Action, I oppose genocide.’ The High Court said the proscription was unlawful, yet it’s still being enforced :)
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
Whatever happened to the ELF? I haven't heard of them or about them since, IIRC, the early 2000s.
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
Most of them either went underground (Sunshine was never found) or did lengthy prison sentences. Dibee got an incredible ending. There’s an AMAZING podcast Burn Wild (BBC) by Leah Sottile and Georgia Catt going in depth about the whole saga (the acts, the years in between, and the trials, as well as the social change since)
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
Okay! That answers my question. I didn't even know anybody was tried and convicted. I will check out the Burn Wild podcast. Thank you for the recommendation.
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
You’re super welcome 🫶
Alive_Education4454@reddit
There's a documentary called 'If A Tree Falls' about one of the guys who did time after his mate grassed him.
pseudonym-161@reddit
Oh I’m well aware of the government’s of the world over prosecuting so called eco-terrorism.
Mochrie01@reddit
It's resistance.
JustThall@reddit
This is BS take. Those BBQ goods are products of labor of multiple people. The society will eat the full cost of damages. And it won’t be just “the rich” who will foot the bill, it would be middle class working families.
It makes total sense that the penalty would fit the crime here
pseudonym-161@reddit
Life in prison doesn’t meet the crime like at all. People get less time for murder.
gc3@reddit
Call him a terrorist to add another 20 years
CougarBacon@reddit
It’s time to teach the fine people of San Bernardino County what jury nullification means.
Insect1312@reddit
If anyone can find his information we should do prisoner support
Shoddy-Childhood-511@reddit
It maybe planning, but it maybe just dumb persistence. If he planned knowing the fire dept would turn off the fire suppression, then he could've figured out how to turn off the fire suppression himself. And some fire suppression systems could be reactivated after use without manual work replacing heads.
3lettergang@reddit
People are giving the arsonist so much credit.
Hes not an evil mastermind that outsmarted the dumb engineers and the incompetent fire department to complete is complex multi-stage plan of attack.
Its just a guy who kept setting more fires until the building burned down. More fire = more fire was his only thought process.
Considering how little non-fire people understand about life safety systems, theres no way this guy planned it out past this.
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
The thing is they don’t need to prove any high end masterplan - this is enough for them to claim it. Intent is also fairly clear, I mean legally he’s fucked
AcrimoniousPizazz@reddit
A life sentence for this and six months for Brock Turner. Crazy work.
kalkutta2much@reddit
Widely known rapist Brock Turner apparently uses the name Allen Turner now fyi for anyone still interested in holding him accountable
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
Really glad that at least Brock Turner the rapist is still remembered as Brock Turner the rapist
nokplz@reddit
DONT FORGET #JESSE MACK BUTLER# WHO RAPED AND RECORDED HIMSELF CHOKING A TEENAGER while raping her, to the point she needed reconstructive surgery on her throat, AND SINCE HIS DADDY IS A BIG SHOT HE GOT OFF WITH 0 TIME SERVED.
Slight_Cat_3146@reddit
Brock Allen The Rapist Turner
mickeyaaaa@reddit
yea but he'll probably get praised in prison....
hookydoo@reddit
This did happen in Canada though, idk how they're legal system works, unsure if you'd get a life sentence over there.
Rattygirl87@reddit
No it didn't. This happened in California
hookydoo@reddit
Oh my bad, Ontario, California. I'm gonna delete my first comment so that my stupidity doesn't help spread misinformation. Thanks calling me out.
Fickle_Stills@reddit
Ontario, CA is such a troll city for stuff like this :)
Hinaloth@reddit
They'll call this terrorism to get the insurance coverage, or at least national help, and to make sure the employee gets the worst treatment possible in hopes of dissuading others.
Corporations wanting to be treated like nations is what will come out of this sadly.
cooking2recovery@reddit
just sent a shiver down my spine. I thought corporations having the rights of people was bad enough, but you’re absolutely right that’s the next level.
Grace_of_Reckoning@reddit
Financial gain isn't a "linear function" when a certain point is passed. In short, there is no way the cost for repairing the damage from arson as shown here will be any kind of dilemma for those who will handle it.
The lie that money isn't virtually infinite for those who posses all of it is such an obvious lie that in requires the modern American economy to distort that basic truth.
I would bet anything this was a stunt orchestrated by those with higher power and not the work of a single genuinely furious individual, presumably a sentient human whose actions (or else purpose) is at least partially supportable in the sense that they were a victim and their "hand was forced".
Liveitup1999@reddit
They had to shut off the sprinkler system until someone could come in and replace the sprinkler heads that had already popped off.
Shoddy-Childhood-511@reddit
Yup, so that protocol cannot be changed without some hardware change, although they could've other protocols, like leaving cops at the scene of fires.
TheCheshire@reddit
Not trying to be an asshat, but this isn't how you use the contraction "could've". I could copy most of what's posted here, but I can just let you read over it yourself:
https://www.reddit.com/r/grammar/comments/179x5et/question_about_wouldve_couldve_shouldve/
Shoddy-Childhood-511@reddit
Interesting thanks! I've sadly never read my copy of Fowler.
Actually, we do not contract at all in formal writing, so not sure if Fowler would even discuss this.
Alteredbeast1984@reddit
What about you all the employers that aren't now out of a job job?
Pelzwick_WMD@reddit
The people I feel bad for are his coworkers, I know they weren't making a lot of money but they definitely still relied on those paychecks and now without warning they don't have a job to go to, through no choice or fault of their own.
Would insurance cover lost wages for us regular folk, or is everybody here just SOL?
SixGunZen@reddit
Kimberly-Clarke likely didn't own the building. Almost all of these big commercial warehouses are leased. Also, what the fire department does when they arrive depends on what the fire supression system did before they arrived. If the sprinkler heads went off and drained the system, they shut off the water flow and reset the fire panel without clearing out any existing faults. If it didn't, they just check the notifier device and reset the panel. In either case, monitoring isn't interruprted unless the panel is left in a state of test mode or full alarm bypass, in which case a physical fire watch is required by law.
notislant@reddit
Man I must have heard about 20 different 'reasons the fire suppression system failed'.
'A part of the roof collapsed which is why it failed.'
'Many lit fires is too much for the system to handle.' (This is pretty believable if its regular spirnklers with glass caps). Only so much water spread out over an absolutely massive warehouse.
bobthecan@reddit
Wow, lmao
LittleLostDoll@reddit
whats the idea behind turning and leaving it off? I can understand it being off while firefighters are there. but after?
Yamochao@reddit
Fuck that last paragraph got my chin quivering.
Marigold16@reddit
You need to be careful not to cut yourself on all that edge.
Burning an unoccupied building full of TP is the same as bombing a school during class?
Using high explosive, long range missiles is the same as a Zippo lighter?
The USAF is the same as a lone arsonist?
You're trying to be an edge lord, a troll or a bot.
withnailandpie@reddit
They’re referring to method, not scale
Karasu-Fennec@reddit
Thanks comrade that’s the most cartoonishly evil thing I’ve ever heard
Zirgy@reddit
Far from cartoonish, it’s damn near a daily occurrence these days lol
Karasu-Fennec@reddit
Takes a special kind of psychopath to come up with something like that though, especially for use on a school that children go to
Eren Jeager-ahh behavior
thePsychonautDad@reddit
lol, spot on
Zirgy@reddit
Double Taps for the Swampire
Remarkable-Okra6554@reddit
Big fan of your narrator skills. 👏 👏
QueefBeefCletus@reddit
Now this is goddamn hilarious. Get fucked, NFI.
_branchoftheVine@reddit
God damn.
dashingsauce@reddit
Very sensible explanation
redditismylawyer@reddit
Serious question: I wonder what is more oppressive, the miserly wages for labor in the US or the non-linear increase of extraction: health insurance premiums, median home / rent prices, vehicle coverage, college costs. These are making reproduction of daily existence especially difficult. Oh, I guess there’s also the ballooning costs of food and water.
Need a living wage for sure. Also need to make sure the parasites driving the wealth transfer don’t IMMEDIATELY capture the marginal difference.
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Variable_North@reddit
More and more people are starting to have nothing to lose. Change is coming as that escalates.
StrongShallots@reddit
I hope you're right cuz I've been waiting for something to change for decades now, and so far, nothing has...
holistivist@reddit
You don’t wait for change. You make it.
Variable_North@reddit
We need to be the change we wish to see, the majority of America is in the position of waiting for someone else to do something.
Change through sacrifice, comrad!
AcidaliaPlanitia@reddit
The other people that worked there who now won't be getting a paycheck at all had something to lose.
Variable_North@reddit
They didn't start the fire.
ragdollxkitn@reddit
This right here
xpingux@reddit
You guys are fucking insane.
MysteriousSelection9@reddit
Go cry to mommy and daddy.
xpingux@reddit
Just gonna contribute to society and not cheer it's demise.
WhytSquid@reddit
To be fair, they were driven that way.
xpingux@reddit
Dude, no.
Carlozo72@reddit
I think this is just lovely
ILikePort@reddit
So recent firsts.
Luigi, and now, this guy.
Honestly surprised it doesnt happen more, much more.
Are there others who are less publicised?
fiach1447@reddit
There are. I remember hearing about another ceo who got shot a few months ago.
HarveyMushman72@reddit
A living wage is cheaper than a revolution.
bristlybits@reddit
they used to understand this, but the rich need to be reminded every once in a while
HarveyMushman72@reddit
Blair Mountain and The Battle of Athens.
RadiantWarden@reddit
Wanting better pay is fair. Burning down a workplace isn’t a statement, it’s just hurting innocent people. If the job isn’t enough, the answer is to level up or move on, not destroy it for everyone else.
bristlybits@reddit
people snap. people can only take so much. at least he didn't hurt anyone; just stuff.
lycanthrope6950@reddit
It's twofold - we need to be paid adequately but we also just need things to be affordable. If all of us got a 50% pay raise tomorrow, I guarantee the cost of literally everything would jump by at least that much within 3 days, and we'd be in the exact same position.
bristlybits@reddit
so prices haven't gone up in places where the minimum wage hasn't gone up?
246ngj@reddit
This is a fallacy mindset. There is a gap between current wages and what the wage should be. Closing that gap would result in less profits for companies, but those companies will STILL be making billions every year in profit without raising the cost of products and services. Only after that gap is closed AND then further increases in wages will you see wage based inflation.
To expand further, what are your opinions on debt? Should people who aren’t paid appropriately be living off of loans and credit cards? They already are. That credit is still money supply through the system. That spending supply and demand inflation is already built in. Assume spending levels stay the same and prices stay the same. Wouldn’t a world where working people are able to maintain their lifestyle, pay off debt, and have money left over to save and invest be a better world for us all?
The core issue is corporate greed and the wealth class vs working class. (Remove thinking of middle class from your mindset. If you make a million per year and still paycheck to paycheck you’re not middle class you’re working class).
Dodge sued Ford and the end result was the court proclaiming a companies responsibility is to provide profits for investors. Literally dividend increases and payouts for some companies exceed what those companies paid workers. Workers are not the priority but we are all screaming because we are being casted aside as a tool rather than a human being.
Higher ups such as C level employees will take a $1 “salary” and get paid in stock which propels them from working class to wealth class. Once you own wealth you’re good. The rest of us are wage slaves, especially if we took on debt whether willingly or otherwise.
True wealth redistribution and greater equality starts with appropriate wages. Inflation is here whether you like it or not, I can talk about that for hours too.
The wealth class wants the workers divided amongst themselves. Don’t buy in.
SubstituteCS@reddit
The main argument is corporate greed won’t allow them to have less profit, thus they will immediately raise prices to keep the gap and keep their margins.
I don’t subscribe to that idea as they do it anyways, regardless if people are making more money or not.
Ragfell@reddit
The law of supply and demand...
xThomas@reddit
Social contract gone? Propaganda time from everything and everyone
Hot take for this sub: burning buildings down is bad. Maybe this one has a happy ending but sometimes fires kill a hundred people
bristlybits@reddit
yeah especially if the ceo decided not to install a sprinkler system huh
Jumpy-Silver5504@reddit
What was in the wearhouse
bristlybits@reddit
no sprinklers were in there.
cliffhngr42@reddit
Toilet paper
Jumpy-Silver5504@reddit
That wouldn't stop fire depts from putting out the fire.
HeathenAF@reddit
Having seen a toilet paper production factory actually catch on fire in Australia, roughly 30 years ago, I can assure you, that shit burns and burns and burns some more - they certainly didnt put it out
zero-point_nrg@reddit
While I support the sentiment, OP had no way to know if someone might be in this 1.2 million SF complex that could have died and that shit was reckless.
Also, for the love of god, how does a toilet paper warehouse not have automatic sprinkler heads?
bristlybits@reddit
i wonder who is at fault when there's no sprinkler system in a place like this. who made the decision to cut that corner
zero-point_nrg@reddit
Yeah that’s completely insane and negligent for the staff working in the building
jacscarlit@reddit
If any company pays the federal minimum wage, or a wage that cannot guarantee four times the cost of a one bedroom apartment, then I agree with this person.
We got our workers rights from far worse. Lots of lives lost in union vs company paid police forces. Lives lost in company town exploitation. Companies move factories out of small towns at no notice to the workers and the towns lose their income yax. Lots of women burned in clothes making factories because managers locked the door so they wouldn't take breaks. Far worse has happened to get us here and wages for both the reduction of the CEO and the increase of the employees are the next greatest hurdle of the working class.
bristlybits@reddit
the workers in the place that burned down were in danger every day; there was no sprinkler system.
and they didn't know it.
Tumbleweed_Chaser69@reddit
Back when workers didn't have many rights workers bled and died for their rights, even to the point of fighting the damn military.
Whalephant2K17@reddit
Most have forgotten the coal wars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Wars?wprov=sfti1
GroundbreakingPin913@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre
TheGriffonMage@reddit
Forgotten? Most were never taught. I sure wasnt. This is the first ive heard of it, and my vyvanse is kicking in. Time to research instead of work.
thinkB4WeSpeak@reddit
Definitely never taught because people now are scared to protest/strike because they might lose a job. While these people lost their job, company house, and were shot at. It's not taught in school for a reason. We teach the wars but not the labor wars.
Safe-Adagio5762@reddit
Don't feel bad, I'm from West Virginia and wasn't even taught about this in WV History class. Of course, it WAS taught by the basketball coach, so we did see a ton of game films. :)
9mackenzie@reddit
I grew up there too, in Charleston. Graduated in 2000- we learned about it, but not in context of the widespread workers rights union. Are you younger than me? I always wondered if they cut it fully out later on.
Safe-Adagio5762@reddit
Much older than you, I graduated in 1983. Born in St Albans, moved to Elkview in high school (Herbert Hoover HS, ironically) before escaping to the Air Force. Now living in the Philippines, where the squatter shacks remind me of the old coal towns back in WV.
TheGriffonMage@reddit
Based Baseball Coach. Absolutely stellar.
jiggjuggj0gg@reddit
Every now and then you have to take some responsibility for the things you don’t know. Schools can’t and won’t teach everything that has ever happened, and you have the entire wealth of human knowledge at your fingertips.
TheGriffonMage@reddit
Every now and then? My dude. I had to teach myself how to file taxes
In a proper society, focused on the longevity and happiness of their people, there are multiple topics that could at least be introduced to students. How is someone supposed to research a topic they dont even know about?
jiggjuggj0gg@reddit
How are you imagining schools teach about everything under the sun? There will always be things you don’t know about.
TheGriffonMage@reddit
There's a solid 13 years of education for public school students in the united states. Youre gonna sit here and act like its impossible to squeeze in a lesson or two on the history of labor movements in the US? Im not saying the entirety of human history be taught. I am saying that our education system is intentionally lacking. Introduction of a topic, allowing opportunity for further research, is vastly different from "teaching everything under the sun".
Do you believe that our schools are working perfectly as it is? Assuming you went to a US based public school, you really think you walked out sufficiently educated?
Hell, this doesnt even touch base on areas with the problem of tying school budgets to property values which intentionally keeps certain areas poorly educated
If I can sit in my elementary school and dedicate 30 minutes a day to the history of my hometown, it isnt hard for teenage students to have 2 or 3 classes in their civics semester touch base on issues that should be categorized under "things the US has done that shouldnt be repeated" or "your rights as a future worker in this country"
jiggjuggj0gg@reddit
I mean, nobody is going to argue that US schools are fit for purpose.
But yes, every time literally any topic comes up anywhere, someone is screaming ”nobody ever taught me this in school!. At some point you do need to take responsibility for educating yourself and not expecting your government, which is a world famous propaganda machine, to spoon feed you everything.
TheGriffonMage@reddit
But that isnt what ive been arguing, at all. You seem to be projecting personal experiences onto my statements.
I didnt know how to pay my taxes, so I taught myself. I didnt know about the coal wars, so I edcuated myself. I didnt know about the endocannabinoid system, so I educated myself. I didnt know about Tardigrades, so I took a deep dive. I didnt know about the destruction of Black Wall Street, so I learned about it.
That doesnt detract from the fact that we should be educating our up and coming youth on the topics that are vital to their livelihoods. The whole reason we arent taught these things is because, like you pointed out, our government is a world class propoganda machine.
You and I agree on this topic far more than the force youre placing onto disagreement. Im not arguing for the full entirety of human knowledge be implanted into children. I am saying that we should be providing more foundational courses that actually matter . Education on your rights as a worker and how people earned those rights for us, a proper civics course that teaches us how our government works on a local level as well as national.
Ignorance is not a shield from criticism, and we should take every opportunity to remove our ignorances. But when the educational system reinforces ignorance and fails to teach students how to research properly, the weight of the failure is on the system, not the individual. Especially as the consequences for not educating the masses begins to result in a massive brain drain.
fuck-thisapp@reddit
I’ll never forget my fourth grade teacher showing us a clip of the documentary Harlan County, USA. Saw years later and holy fuck that movie is crazy no wonder he only showed us a small clip. More people need to know how hard workers fiought for their rights.
mountainbrewer@reddit
I legit had to go to college and learn about it in an Appalachian studies class. Crazy.
Qlide@reddit
I learned about it in a activism class in college.
Ponderputty@reddit
All kids should burn down an abusive warehouse or factory during their education, it would be a highly informative class field trip.
Ragfell@reddit
I was fortunate that my civics class taught about many of the topics pursuant to workers' rights. The Coal Wars weren't one of them, but the rail barons' race to the pacific was.
Horrible, horrible conditions. They're still pretty bad, too. My friend's dad worked for Union Pacific and got really injured, and was in an 8-year legal battle with them. He eventually won a multimillion dollar settlement, and I can think of no man more deserving of that cash.
Gloomy_Industry8841@reddit
And we should always be voting for candidates who support workers’ rights and who support regulations and enforcement.
Interesting_Fly_1569@reddit
Yep there’s a reason it’s not. Freedom schools during civil rights movement get very little press in school textbooks either bc it was radicalized students educating ppl in rural areas about their history and their rights so they could vote informed. Teaching literacy, civics, how to hold your power as a citizen. Instead books written to make us feel weak, passive like ppl not been rising up through history to day wtf.
kingrobin@reddit
my bet is they are doing everything they can to be sure the exact opposite happens..
nowimnihil13@reddit
“History” in school growing up is “civics” based for a reason. Grade School is not the place in America for real history.
TheGriffonMage@reddit
Nah, cause then The People would be aware of more.
Our entire education system has been kept intentionally neutered for the sake of creating soldiers and worker bees.
9mackenzie@reddit
And the single best way of doing this is cutting out real history lessons. I am 100% biased, my degree is in history lol, but history is the best subject to not only teach why everything is the way it is in the world, but also critical thinking and research skills. When you get a primary source, you have to understand who wrote it (including the background and beliefs of the person, intent in which they wrote it and audience is was written to. This imparts in your brain to always question whatever you read. It is also just the study of humanity/ it’s fascinating.
Which is why the subject is taught in the most boring possible manner, usually by football coaches that don’t give a shit. It’s infuriating
TheGriffonMage@reddit
Im severely adhd with a dash of autism for flavor. My dad was a historian by hobby and some of my favorite lessons with him were sitting down eith the history channel, and then he would sit down and give additional info. And the kicker? He would then ask lil me what I thought about it. How the pieces fit together. If the pattern was shown anywhere else in history weve learned about.
History really is a spiral. Might not be a circle, it may never truly repeat itself, but it sure as hell looks familiar and loves to rhyme.
9mackenzie@reddit
Absolutely. I did the same with my children, specifically using the Socratic method to teach them a lot of the times, which is a great way to teach kids to think and question.
TheGriffonMage@reddit
Whole heartedly agree. My old Art History teacher frequently held Socratic Seminars in regards to pieces of art we could select from a given period. We would then discuss the social environment at the time, what prompted the artwork, and the impact it would've had when presented.
Case and point, the self portrait of Artemisia Gentileschi beheading her rapist in her rendition of Judith Beheading Holofernes.
Or Michelangelo including his least favored priests at the churchs he was comissioned at in his artwork, my personal favorite being The Last Judgement, where he painted the priest Biagio de Cesena as King Midas, complete with donkey ears and a snake biting his junk. All because Biagio said the nudity of Michelangelo's work was distasteful and not meant for a church.
HelpfulSeaMammal@reddit
"Helen Keller is an amazing story of how never giving up can make you overcome some seemingly impossible hurdles. Just you kids stop learning about her as a young teenager and don't you DARE read about her adulthood."
OptimusPrimeval@reddit
Not neutered. We adopted the Prussian model of education meant specifically to create compliant soldiers and foster unity to the state. It's not neutered, it's specifically designed that way.
TheGriffonMage@reddit
I would say this comes down to semantics, purely because my argument is that it is designed in a neutered fashion, based on my personal idea that Humanity's entire purpose is to Learn and Grow Together. While your argument is that it isnt neutered because it is intentionally poorly designed. Which I do agree with, it is intentionally done to keep the masses uneducated so that we remain blindly loyal to a state that would sooner poison our water supplies than do anything for us.
Gloomy_Industry8841@reddit
This, right here. The destruction of education is a feature, not a bug.
jaymickef@reddit
There’s a pretty good movie called Matewan directed by John Sayles you might want to check out.
gnostic_savage@reddit
A great movie. I always recommend it to people for insight into the era.
mootmutemoat@reddit
Amazing movie, grab a copy before they are gone.
9mackenzie@reddit
Search “WV Battle of Blair Mountain” I grew up in WV so we did learn about it - a little- but I doubt this is even taught there anymore. It’s one of the most important workers rights moments in this country.
BayouGal@reddit
I recently read A People’s History of the United States by Howard Zinn. Eye opening stuff.
Ethanextinction@reddit
I have never heard of it until now and I was born in Kentucky. They don’t teach this at all.
trench_welfare@reddit
Well yeah, they don't want to give you any bright ideas that might lead to standing up for your rights.
PTSDeedee@reddit
Yup. In my Oklahoma history class they didn’t teach us about the Tulsa Race Massacre where they burned down Black Wall Street.
But that isn’t surprising since the textbook industry is corrupt too: https://time.com/6316978/conservative-textbooks/
Petroldactyl34@reddit
Yeah I didnt learn about Blair Mountain until my mid 20s.
livin4donuts@reddit
Most were intentionally not taught about those events, just like they intentionally weren’t taught that the FBI literally leveled an apartment block a few decades back, while civilians were still inside.
Haja024@reddit
Y'see, they can't have us knowing the precedent of people fighting for better working conditions unless it's a really distant history.
They also can't have you knowing it's possible to be a terrorist and have zero casualties. It's very important you learn that all terrorism kills people, so you're less likely to use the tools of terror to fight for your rights.
_pm_me_thong_pics@reddit
Check out the book "The Devil Is Here In These Hills" if you havent already
fbcmfb@reddit
First time I remotely heard about this was on Guilded Age, a show on HBO, they were about to shot at miners.
Thank you for sharing!
coumineol@reddit
"The coal wars, which I'm sure most Americans still remember..."
pourtide@reddit
If you read up on John L. Lewis, you will find fascinating parallels to today ...
Once the miners united against the coal barons, they had power. Which is why, today, they keep us at each other's throats. Divide and conquer.
If you want more horrid conditions for workers, look up the steel mills in Pittsburgh and Andrew Carnegie, one of the worst.
PurpleCableNetworker@reddit
There is a reason it was never taught…
The same reason that the billionaires basically rule the public schooling systems.
coconutpiecrust@reddit
History sure does repeat itself. There are always enough deplorables “just following orders.”
Ragfell@reddit
Didn't the Pinkertons originate in this fashion, too?
pourtide@reddit
These don't mention northeastern Pennsylvania, anthracite country.
The worst was the Avondale Mine Disaster, which was ruled an accident, but surviving miners all believed it was intentionally set. Avondale miners were unionizing, and belief was the fire was a warning the miners throughout the area.
Official proceedings ruled accidental. Well, paid-off legislators didn't just start recently
The Lattimer Massacre was a sheriff's posse.
Soooo many other fatal conflicts, tide finally turning with John L. Lewis, who organized miners across Appalacia.
Kaining@reddit
each instance of the population rising up against the ones in charge of where the money goes is not taught anywhere in the world.
Especially if it worked.
You can't upset the fanatical religious narative that capitalism good, proctecting the environment and degrow lebad other wise, you're a dangerous terrorist.
captstinkybutt@reddit
File that firmly in the column of shit I wasn't taught in school. Absolutely appalling.
WiretapStudios@reddit
I live fairly close to the area. I remember about 20 years ago I was making out on a date and eventually after the lady said she was writing a book. She wouldn't tell me what it was until I swore secrecy. She told me the whole story about the coal wars. Somehow I ended up never seeing her again, but have thought about this story ever since. Feels like she was possibly a ghost in retrospect, spreading the story via OK Cupid.
delilahw1109@reddit
I love that idea 😆
UnicornMeatball@reddit
Learning about the Appalachian Coal Wars radicalized me lol
orincoro@reddit
Sabotage refers to workers throwing their slippers, called sabot into the machinery.
Burial@reddit
This is apocryphal.
It actually derives from the word "saboter" which means "to walk slowly or noisily" which then developed the connotation of "working clumsily or inefficiently," which then turned into "sabotage" when it became something that workers did on purpose.
Mickmack12345@reddit
What’s crazy is that this is just one guy standing up for his own perceived injustice, the proportionate damage a single person can cause is huge
Tumbleweed_Chaser69@reddit
Imagine if millions of people did that, costs would rack up into the billions.
ashvy@reddit
https://youtu.be/YFrUB6KuGY8
Teqnique_757@reddit
Yeah, now this person just messed up the livelihoods of everyone working in that building. What a real champion.
Mochrie01@reddit
Churchill is a saint to many people. But in Wales they don't forget that he sent the army in against striking workers.
rnobgyn@reddit
Americans have pacified.
NorthReading@reddit
r/writteninblood
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
Yo this is amazing
jiggjuggj0gg@reddit
There have been a couple of very brave people now who Americans could follow in the footsteps of.
But instead they will sit at home, praise them on the internet, while saying they couldn’t possibly even strike because they could lose their job.
nokplz@reddit
Employers forgot that the alternative to collective bargaining is burning down their house and beating them to death in front of their family....
ThnkWthPrtls@reddit
I think a lot of Executives have forgotten that unions and labor laws are supposed to be the compromise so that the people don't have to do things like this to get their attention
nowimnihil13@reddit
Remember the Battle of Blair Mountain!
RelevantMetaUsername@reddit
Which side are you on?
nowimnihil13@reddit
Unfortunately, I can’t find an avatar with a red bandana around its neck.
WTFOMGBBQ@reddit
EAT THE RICH
exposethegrift@reddit
❤️
WartOnTrevor@reddit
I ashamed that my fellow humans think this is something to celebrate.
ZealousidealEnd6660@reddit
Unionizing is probably better than burning things down but this guy's got the spirit
Conscious-Magazine50@reddit
Read up on union history, we didn't get unions by nonviolent means alone.
ZealousidealEnd6660@reddit
It's always a good day to learn labor history!
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
Funny how hard they fought against unions huh, they probably wouldn’t if they knew this is the alternative
Soze42@reddit
If you look at how labor rights were obtained in the past, this was always the alternative. If they didn't see it, that's on them.
Roganvarth@reddit
“Unions were the compromise and alternative to labourers dragging capitalists out of their homes and beating them to death infront of their families.”
There’s a reason the billionaire class has been making themselves fortresses in hard to access places recently.
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
They’re all getting bunkers these days lol isn’t that funny. Zuck got like a $200 mil underground one in the ring of fire in Hawaii recently. Like dude - that’s sweet, but your bodyguards will drag you out into the mob the way things are going
HomeWinter6905@reddit
All fun and games til the Boston dynamics dogs on your ass
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
Lmao yea
TemporaryUser10@reddit
I wish those were the models we were fighting. Pneumatic actuators would be so much easier to take out
Conscious-Magazine50@reddit
Yup. The drone footage of soldiers being taken out now may come to be and of us one day.
Botched_Euthanasia@reddit
Anyone can buy one with a flamethrower now for less than $10k https://throwflame.com/products/thermonator-robodog/
Ezekiel_29_12@reddit
The servants will have remote detonators implanted as a condition being hired.
Roganvarth@reddit
Dragon sickness is a funny ol thing.
It’s wild to me that people sitting on functionally unfathomable wealth can’t just pay their workers a living wage.
kingsuperfox@reddit
Cope caves.
wakeupwill@reddit
Learn from history?
We don't do that here.
GarrisonWhite2@reddit
They wouldn’t have and still won’t.
IcyBookkeeper5315@reddit
Look up the Battle of Blaire Mountain. Look at just how far people will go to keep us under their boot
pm_me_fibonaccis@reddit
Unions are the compromise in place of having this. This is the consequence of preventing unionization.
merikariu@reddit
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." President JFK
mrblahblahblah@reddit
"Don't lecture me about unions, I'm a marxist"
Lee Harvey Oswald
AlwaysShittyKnsasCty@reddit
“Sometimes the tree of mothafuckin’ freedom requires the blood of billionaire bitches.”
— President Thomas Jefferson
Evening_Grass_8073@reddit
Didn’t know Tommy-boy was chill like that
ThnkWthPrtls@reddit
^* except for the slave stuff that was pretty unchill
crazy_cat_broad@reddit
While writing about how OF COURSE slavery is bad!
Evening_Grass_8073@reddit
Yeah… That’s probably not mentioned as much as it should be
LarryCrabCake@reddit
Ding ding ding
Unions are the peaceful alternative to this. All they had to do was hear the employees out!
ZealousidealEnd6660@reddit
Agreed. We still need to organize in our communities and workplaces if we want things to change on a systemic level.
No-Candidate6257@reddit
Unionizing isn't enough, either.
You need Marxist-Leninist organization, Marxist-Leninist mutual aid structures, and - most importantly - a Marxist-Leninist vanguard.
You need an armed and fully committed core that will lead a serious revolutionary organization and if you don't want to participate in such an organization you should at least support and promote an organization such as this.
Workers must start seizing the means of production, disowning the parasite class, taking control of their local and - eventually - federal governments, and actively supress the reaction by whatever means necessary.
Workers must build class consciousness, recognize that they make up >90% of the population and that the bourgeoisie and labour aristocracy are a staunch minority and, therefore, should have less than 10% of all influence in society. Workers must take full control over the government, the political and economic system, and all decisions in society.
Don't tolerate the power of the 1%. Don't tolerate their existence and ensure they can only earn and own stuff as a direct consequence of their personal labour. All money made off of the back of others (e.g. all passive income, income generated from unsustainable environmental practices, etc.) is STOLEN from workers and future generations.
Botched_Euthanasia@reddit
One issue is the so-called freedom of speech. I have comments I'd like to respond with, but the autobots will roll out if I did, and then my account would be suspended or banned before anyone even saw them.
There are very few places on the internet or in meatspace which could be used to organize. Cameras are everywhere, all internet activity is logged and geofenced, It's forcing any resistance into small, disorganized cells largely incapable of achieving much of anything.
To top it off, there's a large movement of ACAB people that don't realize that the local police are the last defense we have if we could convince them who the thin blue line should side with, along with maybe the national guard but both groups like thier toys too much and are easily paid off so they aren't too keen on joining the right side of justice in many, if not most, areas of the country.
The only other combat unit that really exists that might be for the people, is the one inside the prison complex and I don't think the people are ready or capable of opening that pandora's box.
So the people are outgunned, can't communicate, can't defend themselves, if they do rise up they will be annihillated by their neighbors in uniform, flamethrowing robot dogs, lethal injection carrying mosquito drones, and supersonic completely silent sword missiles, fired from space that lock on to unique heartbeat signature audio, all tracking anyone who shows the slightest hint of resistance on social media or voted the wrong way 30 years ago.
ZealousidealEnd6660@reddit
Right there with you!
jim45804@reddit
I love unions and I support them, but they are antiquated and mostly ineffectual in the modern age. Employees are expendable and easily replaced. Strikes are impotent when most commerce is automated and happens virtually.
We need another, possibly more direct, path.
CLTVD@reddit
This is one reason I believe the childfree life will be a critical component of a revolution that gives real power to the working class. Revolution requires sacrifice in some form from the majority of people in the society. For some, not having kids would be their sacrifice for the long term good of society. People who decide to go ahead with kids due to social pressure need support to stand firm. People like me who are willingly and happily childfree can make our sacrifices in other ways.
Employees will not be expendable when society stops producing excess labor. This will be extremely painful for the generations that live through the transitional time, and it will bring up other social issues that need to be addressed now but we’re kicking the can down the road. The lack of excess labor will force us to create new solutions to pensions/eldercare, and so on.
We can have the pain of being treated like crap or we can have the pain of rebalancing. Of course, the decrease will have to be more drastic now that they have AI, robots, and whatnot available to offset. I don’t know if this made sense written out, it’s a notion I am still working through in my head.
ZealousidealEnd6660@reddit
I agree. I think that's still going to require organizing workers (solidarity unionism) but the bureaucratic model is failing us. In the US, no strike clauses are written in to contracts, largely defanging unions. But volunteerism has limits to its efficacy. There is something to be said for the inspiration though.
Elevated_Dongers@reddit
He's got the spirit, but now he's going to prison for a long time. Was it worth it for the brief social media fame? I dunno. I personally wouldn't trade my freedom for something like this. Will it make big corpos pay more to people that could do a lot of damage? Also unlikely.
Guy martyr'd himself for basically nothing IMO
Karambamamba@reddit
Unions only exist because people did shit like this. The current administration would do nothing more than strip workers of their right to unionize. Hell, your unions are a joke already compared to their European counterparts.
orincoro@reddit
I’ll take it.
RPM314@reddit
Por que no los dos?
ZealousidealEnd6660@reddit
You're right. Diversity of tactics!
Comrade_Compadre@reddit
This is what happens when the unions fail.
IIRC Amazon doesn't have a union... Soo.....
Coward-____@reddit
Just vote too!
OYeog77@reddit
Work, work, work, and what do I get? Burying my dog this morning because we (dual incomes) couldn’t afford treatment for Parvo. No internet, just enough food to keep us alive, and a 30 min drive to work. The “big guy” is becoming complacent. We won’t hold up our end of the social contract if they don’t hold up their.
gnostic_savage@reddit
Unfortunately, it's just not true that all that was needed was a living wage. What is necessary, and this has been the case for centuries upon centuries, is people must prevent wealth disparity. We know this. We know about egalitarian societies and societies that are highly stratified and unequal. Societies with significant wealth disparity will always, and it cannot be emphasized enough, always have the most ruthless people in charge and the most ruthless people accumulating wealth.
And how do they accumulate wealth? By exploiting other humans, other animals, and the environment in ways that are harmful. That's why we have this subreddit about collapse of the whole place. The only way great wealth is acquired is through egregious harm. The larger harm must exist for wealth to exist.
Americans simply do not seem to be able to understand this. We believe in wealth accumulation. We believe that we, or that some of us, "deserve" wealth. Because we're talented, because we "contribute" to society, and because we have abilities and we work hard. I know dogs that have abilities and work hard and contribute to society and are literal heroes. They save lives, they have jobs, they sniff out bombs, they perform search and rescue, they save little children lost in the woods, they protect their families faithfully, they take down criminals, detect illness, and many other noble tasks. For some reason we don't think they "deserve" wealth, but we do. Humans don't deserve wealth anymore than dogs do. Humans deserve to have their real needs met, and they deserve freedom from oppression.
We worship mammon, and it is our doom.
Ghostwoods@reddit
All very true -- except for your first sentence.
If you want to stop the population going feral, a living wage is always going to be all it takes. Bread and circuses pacify us to the point where we just grumble, and always have. Humans gonna human.
gnostic_savage@reddit
While you are correct that most ordinary people would be satisfied with a living wage, the problem remains that the wealthiest among us are never satisfied with their own wealth. They cannot stop taking. They must have more. It's not enough for them to have as much wealth as a hundred million ordinary people, like Musk and Bezos, Musk who wants to take Social Security from old people and the disabled, and Bezos who makes employees pee in bottles, or the Waltons who have billions but their employees are on public assistance. They are bottomless pits. And they are smart. And they spend their days conspiring how to have more while ordinary people spend their days getting by. It's literally their job to get together with each other and collude as to how they can get around any limits or boundaries, something all narcissists and sociopaths loathe. That's what rich people do with their time, and they burn the midnight oil doing it. If you don't think so, you've never been around wealthy people.
And that's why I wrote exactly that. It's not enough to pay a living wage. We would absolutely need to stop the wealth disparity also. But we're too dumb. We think we can have wealth and also regulate or manage wealthy people, but there is zero historical evidence for that supremely stupid belief. So, the only possible answer is that a society cannot allow wealth to exist to any significant degree. If they do, they will be owned by the wealthy people among them, and those will be some of the worst humans in their society.
OldSpiceSmellsNice@reddit
Yep. Nothing impressive about extreme wealth in a world that still has poverty.
gnostic_savage@reddit
Nothing moral about it, for certain. But extreme wealth requires poverty.
FastPraline3322@reddit
Lots of basic ass comments here. Thank you for this one. We need something far more than "more money" or "less taxes". We need a social construction that is resilient and adaptable and doesn't exist simply to enrich and empower the ruling class so they can frolic around the world raping and pillaging.
gnostic_savage@reddit
Seriously. But I do fear it is much too late. This culture is unsalvageable. Its very foundation of anthropocentrism, which is human entitlement, that objectifies and commodifies the whole of the rest of the world is so profoundly wrong. We would need to have Nature cultures, much more like tribal people around the world had. We think we're too good for that "primitive" stuff, but really we're just much too psychologically and morally fucked up for that.
BirdBruce@reddit
When you spend your entire life subsisting on crumbs, you only know how to beg for more crumbs.
gnostic_savage@reddit
I think it's more than that. It's our supremacy. I would like to say it's our supremacy biting us in the ass, but it's actually ripping our throats out. Our supremacy, along with our greed, is the reason we don't have a national healthcare system; we refused to provide healthcare to Black Americans.
We are brainwashed into believing that we are the pinnacle of human evolution, more of our superiority. We are the most democratic, most free people who ever existed, we are told. It's total nonsense, but we believe it. So, why would we give up what have that is so superior to everything else ever created to be like anyone else? We can't do that. It keeps us doing the same things over and over believing we can create different outcomes the next time. We never create different outcomes. But we keep trying because, we think, there are no alternatives to our way of doing things.
Cosmonaut_Cockswing@reddit
Only YOU can prevent toilet paper factory fires!
geekspice@reddit
When the poor shall have nothing more to eat...
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
On a related note
Hypollite@reddit
I'm French, and honestly your ruling class is lucky that there is an ocean between us.
Suspicious-Shift1684@reddit
I mean this with full respect, but isn't France/Paris still inundated with what French nationals would consider 'unwanted immigration'?
I grew up wanting to visit Paris, but in the past 10-15 years, all I've heard or read about it is how it's unsafe and completely different to what people used to romanticize Paris as.
Based on context, it seems to me that the French would have also burned down Paris by now because of these unwanted people they keep allowing in?
roytay@reddit
Maybe they punch up instead of punching down.
We were in Paris in '24 and it was lovely as usual.
Suspicious-Shift1684@reddit
Thanks for your insight, but along with the other person who commented--you guys aren't likely from there, and it an incredibly stark difference between travelling somewhere on vacation than to live there day-to-day.
geekspice@reddit
As someone who has been to France at least annually for the past couple decades, this is absolute horseshit.
Suspicious-Shift1684@reddit
And this from someone living there:
My country (France) is dead… and it is supposed to be fine for a part of French people ?! : r/TrueUnpopularOpinion
Suspicious-Shift1684@reddit
I mean, this is from Google's AI overview just now:
France is navigating a major immigration crisis characterized by high asylum requests, strained public services, and intense political debate. The country saw over 145,000 asylum claims in 2023, with the foreign-born population reaching roughly 14% by 2024. Issues include failed integration in some areas, security fears, rising far-right sentiment, and attempts to tighten immigration rules.
WartHogOrgyFart_EDU@reddit
Hey just wanna say you guys definitely know how to protest and it’s fucking amazing. We may have to give you guys a call again to help us gain our independence back. Maybe another Lafayette or someone?
But yeah we could definitely learn a lot from you guys. Just an aside. I saw a video a year or two or something during one of the really big protests and the the protesters hooked up a grill to the tram tracks to keep feeding people during the march and I was blown away. I
Thanks again for the help the first time.
Southern_Air3501@reddit
Yes I saw a video with a bunch of tractors (was it?) blocking roads and maybe manure? Impressive. 👍🏽
Hypollite@reddit
Ah ah, thanks
I'm only learning myself.
I'm sure there are a few groups in contact internationnaly, learning from each others!
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
I’m a European & I legit thank God for that every day fr
co_upe@reddit
Society is 3 meals away from anarchy.
Ekaterian50@reddit
You're thinking of chaos
CatarroTitubante666@reddit
I wish we could mean it as actual anarchy🥲
Ekaterian50@reddit
That would require humanity to be united for mutual aid rather than competing for finite resources by trying to out-breed each other.
Candid-Mycologist539@reddit
I would qualify this as 3 children's meals from anarchy.
A lot of parents are already skipping meals. Heck, I knew one mom in the early 1990s that lived that way to feed her toddler son while she was a single parent and student.
But if your children had nothing to eat all of yesterday...and if today looks the same...
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
Yea, they want 1936 Germany but seem to be getting 1793 France instead huh
valas76@reddit
Blessed be are the disciples.
Diligent_Activity_92@reddit
I think the statement by the gentlemen combined with the video is a pretty solid rallying call that the likes of Paul Revere, Patrick Henry and Marines yelling Oorah would all give a tip of the hat to. The rallying cry helps to solidfy the ownership classes war against everyday people and gives options to fight back using commonly available everyday materials in what also is a handy little instruction guide /s.
The US is in desperate need of class consciousness due to the declining living standards of everyday people since tax reform favoring the wealthy starting in the 1980s. I say this as an American living in Norway and you probably would not understand how good I have it if I told you, but I will make an attempt*.
While of course it is hoped that social change can come about peacefully generally most successful movements require civil disobedience waiting in the wings in case being nice fails.
Hopefully the rallying cries can be used for strikes and get everyday people to organize collectively and start fighting back to truly make America for the people and by the people. The difficulty is creating enough mutual aide to be able to support an ongoing strike as people are so dirt poor and dependent on healthcare at their jobs they are very coerced into working.
The world will know the US has a real democracy when the Marines start invading tax havens and using the spoils or war to pay for universal healthcare, housing, food security and education.
*Norway has 0 debt. The largest sovereign wealth fund in the world at about 350,000 dollars per person. The US has a debt of about 250,000 dollars per taxpayer in comparison. We do not have ongoing wars we fight even though we spend an ok amount on the military. Our media is not full of polarizing issues that distract away from the material conditions. We do not ostracize one group of people as being responsible for all of our problems nor fear monger that there is some danger in a trans person reading books to kids. Although there is debate but the debate is usually won by rational people....
....It is won by rational people because we have lots of democracy and education in our society. We do not allow homeschooling by religious fanatics because we want our kids to know how to function in the greater society and that we are all a part of it. We have 8 political parties with seats in parliament and they all pretty much agree that we should have a welfare state. Bullies here are quickly dealt with and everyone is the same under the law except a few billionaires and very savvy people from the political class but having said that, we have people under investigation for Epstein relations.
Here is something you don't here about Norway or any other country with social safety nets to various degrees. If I get sick, with a doctor's note, anyone gets 100 percent of their salary for up to a year. If still sick without any means testing, people can receive 66 percent of their salary for up to three years. If someone cannot go back to work they get a disability payment equaling 60 percent of their salary for as long as needed.
In Norway, I live in a safe, secure, stable and solidaric society more or less. Our murder rate is 1/10 th per capita as the US. The Norwegian police are the nicest police I've ever met and all have to go through three years or rigorous schooling.
In sum, social democracy builds societies that invest in its people who in turn willingly support the welfare state. I have a slightly above average salary and pay 27 percent in income taxes....its money so well spent I see the payback every year.
If everyday people in the US rule the country you can have the same things as us.
Ragfell@reddit
The key there is 8 different political parties.
When you have two, they bow to money, not ideals.
FastPraline3322@reddit
Nevermind that 50% of the current government is legit neo nazis and the only reason even the social democrats are able to have a majority is because they aligned with the centre party which is also a historically nazi aligned party. But hey. All we need is a King and a little fascism and we can call ourselves social democrats, too.
Far-Government-6551@reddit
This is a very uncomfortable truth. There is no clean wealth. The comfortable West sits atop a mountain of suffering in the Global South
ILikePort@reddit
No it's not. Its all of it.
PrimalSaturn@reddit
So all those people who worked there now don’t have a job/income?
TentacularSneeze@reddit
This is not at all surprising. A meager but stable existence was adequate incentive to maintain order. Take away that stability and few pleasures, and what reason do people have to conform?
Did this guy somehow not know this was illegal? That it would lead to his arrest? I mean, it’s possible. But I’d bet this guy did not have a house with a white picket fence to go home to. I’d bet his housing situation was precarious to say the least, to the point that three hots and a cot didn’t seem bad in comparison.
When the loaf of bread costs an hour’s wage, and when the circuses are locked behind advertisement-riddled subscriptions, going apeshit and burning this bitch to the ground is the least bad of few options.
JKastnerPhoto@reddit
I literally said something like this to someone I know a few weeks ago. I told them people are going to start doing crazy things when they can't take this anymore. When they feel they have nothing to lose. Of course this person doubted it but I told them when they can't even enjoy a simple meal or feel entertained because it's too expensive, people are going to just lose it.
Candid-Mycologist539@reddit
I also think that once the population sees individuals doing this, it becomes likely that more and more people could/would be willing to take action like this.
And once people have committed a violent act to achieve their goal, they will carry that within themselves as a possibility for the rest of their lives.
The 1% need to agree to a political solution sooner rather than later.
JKastnerPhoto@reddit
I'll just leave this here.
https://youtu.be/fW8amMCVAJQ?si=9Vvj8j155gUWEBqf
Opposite-Peak5020@reddit
"Give them bread and circuses and they will never revolt"
JKastnerPhoto@reddit
Yup. I always felt that quote was so simplistic but it's true. Even sports fans are getting pissed. Most people are being priced out from attending games and need every streaming service to watch all the games. I think having sports keeps people from revolting. Make it impossible to afford participation and we'll see some crazy stuff.
Ragfell@reddit
I mean, the Coliseum was built to distract people from the decline of Rome lol
JKastnerPhoto@reddit
Sorry that's not true. The coliseum was built in 80 AD, long before the empire declined or collapsed.
Minute-Operation2729@reddit
Yes yes to everything you’ve said.
Barnacle_B0b@reddit
It's interesting how in the whole conversation of this event, nobody is discussing the crime of wage-theft, or not paying a liveable wage.
Not paying a liveable wage ought to be a crime.
orincoro@reddit
People with nothing to lose are dangerous.
musical_shares@reddit
“When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War, ≈2500 years ago
eliquy@reddit
"Slow death by starvation and despair is an out, right?"
CEOs
musical_shares@reddit
“I wouldn’t bite the hand that feeds me if I wasn’t starving to death and you weren’t made of meat.”
Ragfell@reddit
Especially when they have social media and PS5s in prisons lmao
Mastotron@reddit
Well said. While I don’t completely agree with burning it all down, your last paragraph paints a vivid picture of current society.
Madness_Reigns@reddit
Well they went back on their part of the social contract thst would have prevented this. It's how we got labour rights in there. Your forefathers fought st Blair mountain for this.
kingrobin@reddit
unfortunately, being that it has been made clear by our leaders that no positive change is coming, and indeed may be impossible under the systems they've built, burning it all to the ground may be all we have left to salvage anything at all.
imboomshesaid@reddit
When AI takes 50% of white collar jobs within three years, they’ll institute a UBI that’ll keep us in rags, Soylent green, and perhaps a VR headset to opt-out of reality. The social contract is imploding; once all entry-level jobs are taken by AI, the American Dream dies. There’s more wealth inequality in the US now than there was during the French Revolution, yet most people are too burned out to care, never mind actually organize. We need to fight back before it’s too late.
CremeAcrobatic1748@reddit
Something very wrong with a society where people work full time, but can't afford a place to live and end up living in their car.
Any job should give someone enough money to live somewhere. That seems pretty fucking basic
TheIrishWanderer@reddit
It's very true. Fuck the Epstein class.
hunkyleepickle@reddit
much more than Luigi, this is the kind of power that the people have. Its not right, but it is effective.
Candid-Mycologist539@reddit
It's Milton from Office Space, who, BTW, also was abused by management
ILikePort@reddit
Isnt it right?
Why does the image spark both hope and hopelessness?
melack857@reddit
it’s Wa(rehouse)luigi!
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
YOOOOO i hope this one sticks
cominguproses5678@reddit
This is the best comment. A+ play on words.
GarrisonWhite2@reddit
It’s most definitely right.
Pisces93@reddit
Can you share why you think it’s “not right?”
orincoro@reddit
I agree. This is actually better than Luigi.
Obvious-Hunt19@reddit
BURN
Accomplished-Art-301@reddit
I wonder how many incidents like this will happen before they realize that paying workers a livable wage is cheaper than revolution.
CatarroTitubante666@reddit
Let’s hope they don’t realize it before the revolution (I wouldn’t expect anything different anyway)
Polyzero@reddit
People are calling this guy an idiot but when your so poor and financially trapped by a system that expect you to be hungry and watch your loved ones die helplessly of sickness with poverty it makes you question what exactly is this life good for?
Do I just work endlessly under the burden of crippling taxes, fees, fines, only to hope for a good life insurance payout when you die so your beneficiaries have a brief spree of financial relief? That’s what our OWNERS expect us to do. Work until you die and OWN NOTHING.
Fuck em all. They made the world this way because they expect no consequence for it. People forget north America used to incentivize people to actually work hard. We know now there is no dream worth pursuing now. We’re all cogs in a giant death machine with child raping oligarchs ruling us.
freedcreativity@reddit
Yep, that whole 'I expect my daily wages to cover my housing and food and clothing and saving enough money for when I'm unable to work while having enough left for an occasional simple luxury' is rapidly deteriorating. Single people who worked full time used to be able to 1) save money 2) live without roommates and 3) maybe improve their lot in life. None of those are true anymore, a lot of low-wage workers can barely afford rent and food.
Candid-Mycologist539@reddit
My grandparents paid off their house in 4 years.
Did I say HOUSE? My mistake.
It was a house...on 160 acres, and it was 100% paid off after 4 years. The FARM was paid off in 4 years.
BadFish7763@reddit
What do you call a burning TP warehouse?
A good start.
Indigo_Sunset@reddit
Incense
CzIitz@reddit
Was that a very subtle Stalker 2 reference?
BadFish7763@reddit
Its a riff on an old joke:
What do you call 1,000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea?
A go0d start.
gta0012@reddit
Think it's crazy everyone is jumping to defend this guy that destroyed the livelihoods of 100s of fellow workers.
I've seen 0 information on what he was paid, what they were requesting etc.
I get that everyone wants to rah rah burn down the big bad capitalist company but we have no idea what the situation is.
They could easily have been paying well above market rates, an extremely livable wage and the guy could just be crazy.
I think it's hard to jump to omg he is right burn it all down when we have no idea the situation.
Everyone is taking general knowledge on workers being underpaid and things sucking and just applying it to this situation even if it's not accurate.
PenaltyFine3439@reddit
The people praising the guy on Reddit are keyboard communists. Pay no attention.
The adults in the room want this system to change for the betterment of everyone but this isn't the way.
Guess he got his free room and board, healthcare and armed security at our expense anyway.
wogwai@reddit
I want a t-shirt with that first image.
Doridar@reddit
It's a Luigi sequel
transitransitransit@reddit
Oh I just know the admins are gonna start banning people for saying this now
krazykat357@reddit
It's a distillation of the broken social contract, right? Like, we don't even get bread and circuses anymore, wtf did you expect to happen?
Supernova_Soldier@reddit
It’s the truth. People are less likely to do stuff like this when their needs are being met
Pay your employees livable or thriving wages, or this will start to happen more often, or worse, you’ll create your personal Luigi
Dangerous_Forever640@reddit
Now none of these people are working…
victor4700@reddit
Is this the spark?
Urshilikai@reddit
This gives me a little hope for this sub. Cast out the doomers and let's get to work
dripainting42@reddit
This guy needed a union.
seraphinth@reddit
This will result in them paying for more humans, human security guards to shoot people trespassing
DocWallaD@reddit
No, Insurance will pay out, dude will go to prison for a long time, and they will rebuild the warehouse with automation and robots. Now a bunch of people are out of a job and the rich get richer.
ImpDoomlord@reddit
They were automating already, replacing all human workers as fast as physically possible no matter how good or obedient they were, doesn’t matter. Insurance WILL pay out, but insurance company won’t be happy about it, their premiums may increase and it will still cost them in lost opportunity and delays in restocking inventory. Dude will go to prison, but making such a public demonstration will defiantly inspire other workers to make demands and the company is likely to listen more now that things are literally burning than they ever would have in fair weather negotiations.
OctopusIntellect@reddit
The guy wasn't trespassing.
Prestigious_Wrap_932@reddit
Actions like this won’t lead to the collapse of the system, but they may help deepen the misery of the proletariat in a way that brings the collapse closer at hand.
Most people who are cheering for the revolution aren’t prepared for how bad things will get when it comes, and many won’t survive it.
Eldariasis@reddit
That or dying of hunger on a scorched miracle of a planet. Choices are narrowing and the "powerful elites" are narrowing them down by lacking any empathy or good sense or listening to actual solutions.
Prestigious_Wrap_932@reddit
I don’t disagree. But Capitalists will happily slaughter millions before they let go of their control.
SixGunZen@reddit
It doesn't matter what your employer pays you, the landlord class is the problem. If there was an increase in pay, the landlords just raise the rent and the problem comes back. This always happens, as a matter of course in real property asset management. They raise the rent. It's what they do. Ever wonder why the rent is higher in San Fran than in Omaha? Higher in Seattle than in Houston? Higher per capita income = the landlords eating it up like cake. Capitlism as a whole is a problem, but as parts of that, landlord greed is one notch above corporate greed on the symptomatic severity scale. Imagine what a relief it would be if tomorrow, everyone's rent and mortage payments got a grand knocked off of them? Credit would loosen up, rates would fall, a boom would happen. But that's not in the cards because landlords are miserly little grey skinned fucks.
cool_weed_dad@reddit
It took violence and bloodshed to secure workers rights and adequate pay.
Now that those things are disappearing there’s only one way they’ll be won back.
madcoins@reddit
Right wing: “all you had to do is not eat avacado toast”
kingfofthepoors@reddit
I think you all are bunch of fucking idiot celebrating this jackass. How many fucking trees died for that toiletpaper, how many jobs were lost because of this asshole.
notislant@reddit
I'll be honest my first thought was:
'Well thats a fuck ton of people out of work now.'
I do like to see people finally getting fed up to this degree, drastic shit is what actually works. We saw wealth hoarders freaking out when the healthcare CEO got shot. How many government agencies surrounded the suspect for photo ops like he was behind 9/11? Absolutely wild.
That warehouse fire has fucked up all sorts of transport plans and paths, it's going to take a long time and a lot of money to rebuild, going to be quite a bit of revenue loss for a while.
I feel for anyone who had a job there, but I do think more of this is the only chance the U.S. has of clawing back a fraction of worker rights that have been stamped out over decades.
VeryDemureAndObscure@reddit
I live like ten minutes from this warehouse. And I just saw that someone might have set the store True Religion on fire at the local mall. I mention that the planet Mars (war) just entered the sign of Aries (fire) in the sky. So I expect this to be a major theme in the world for a few weeks. In fact a lot of stores might close down and go strictly online.
HybridVigor@reddit
They shouldn't have taken away his Swingline stapler.
MarshallMarks@reddit
Looks like a title card from the next Adam Curtis project
LowBarometer@reddit
This will rapidly accelerate the move to robotics and automation.
jim45804@reddit
And more stuff will catch on fire
barpredator@reddit
You’ve perfectly described the Luddite movement. How did history end up viewing them?
jim45804@reddit
They're understood and appreciated now more then ever.
barpredator@reddit
Did their tactics work? No. What makes you think it will work today?
jim45804@reddit
I don't know learn from their mistakes?
barpredator@reddit
Do you think arson is an improvement?
GN0K@reddit
Being mindless drones was the compromise. Break people out of that rhythm and a lot of people are going to snap once they realize there is no real point to this anymore
moocat55@reddit
Point to this? Having a wage to buy food? I heard a good explaination of why American don't protest the way Europeans do. Europeans have far more social benefits and have more time off. This fire won't fix our system and won't get anyone's wage increased. It's just a sign of collapse.
GN0K@reddit
I never said this single fire would fix the system. Dolt.
moocat55@reddit
Close, but not quite. This will help break the system. After its completely broken, something else will be rebuilt in its place. There is absolutely no guarantee what follows is better. It might be. It might be worse. The French Revolution and the resulting power vacuum that was filled by Napoleon is a good history lesson to help understand what's happening here now.
GN0K@reddit
With the climate out of control there likely will never be a better. Like Office Space every day will be most peoples worst day of their life until most life is snuffed out.
absolutmenk@reddit
Anymore insinuates there was an incentive for the workers in a capitalist structure to begin with. Always have been undervalued so profits get skimmed off the top for the people that already had the wealth.
GN0K@reddit
Fast food and flashing screens is incentive enough for most
Madness_Reigns@reddit
Fast food is too expensive and the flashing screens are shittier than ever.
GN0K@reddit
No shit, that's why people will start to wake up. Won't be able to afford not to
Coasteast@reddit
Yeah, hence bread and circus. When you take away circus, people get fidgety. When you take away bread…
HanzanPheet@reddit
Well there really is no point to it all as it is. We all just stay alive instinctually whatever way we can. The primary fight in my opinion is distraction. Keep people distracted so that they don't actually think much about how they live. Watch Netflix or be pissed at the 1%. Most people choose option 1.
curlofheadcurls@reddit
Will they?
GN0K@reddit
Umm dude burned down a warehouse. So yea, some will at least.
curlofheadcurls@reddit
I don't see more warehouses burning down. So I don't think so lol. This shit has always happened. People are too scared. It's a one off thing as long as everyone is complacent nothing happens.
GN0K@reddit
Sure thing bud
hazmodan20@reddit
When the social contract is broken, and people realize it, they don't feel like they need to abide by anything.
Vipper_of_Vip99@reddit
Easy. Thermal camera monitoring of all the workers. If an anomaly is detected you deploy the robot firemen, they scoot around with thermal cameras and fire extinguishers. This is the inevitable conclusion for a profit/driven corporation seeking to lower their insurance premiums. Just a matter of time.
Madness_Reigns@reddit
That's a band-aid. People will adapt as they have in the past. I won't say more because reddit would ban me.
AustEastTX@reddit
🤷🏽♀️
Pisces93@reddit
This is exactly what they’re banking on. The minute they get militarized robots and drones is the minute we’re all cooked
netanator@reddit
Rapid acceleration to the FO phase, eh?
cepukon@reddit
Already full speed ahead bud
token-black-dude@reddit
I wonder if data centers can burn?
Impossible_Past5358@reddit
That will indeed affect way more people, at the same time
03263@reddit
Quite hotly
darkvaris@reddit
They were already going to do that
DestroyTheMatrix_3@reddit
Your burning down my warehouse? Well, I was about to give you a $10 raise and a 3 months all expenses paid vacation to the Bahamas, but now I'm not. Ha!"
TanneriteTed@reddit
Both things are true.
justprettymuchdone@reddit
I don't think it will accelerate it any more. It's already been moving at an accelerated pace.
kexpi@reddit
Yeah, but people need money to pay for automations and stuff.
Defortis@reddit
While i'm against arson, I'm for "All you had to do was pay us enough to live"
Strong-Inflation-776@reddit
All he had to do was get a different fucking job
st_jimmy2016@reddit
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"
lazycrone1@reddit
Wondering how many people lost their jobs
exposethegrift@reddit
Unemployment insurance will kick in. And various other social nets.
dunadan235813@reddit
This is 1 guy... Imagine what some colletive action might do.
Sen-oh@reddit
For a sec I thought this was another bombing run and it was like, us saying it to foreign poors
No-Candidate6257@reddit
Nope.
All of this should belong to the workers.
This is being burned because it's being owned by parasites.
Parasites aren't something you accept to live with.
Parasites are something you destroy by any means necessary that don't kill the host.
cimocw@reddit
And how many of these parasites have you destroyed? It takes balls to deliver such a message with fire, and here you are from your screen deeming it not enough? Let's see your achievements then
No-Candidate6257@reddit
What an idiotic question to ask on reddit. Also, you don't go ahead and take action individually. You foment support for the cause, then organize, then take collective action.
Frubbs@reddit
Can you convince a room of ten people that one thing is true? -- I'm willing to wager if I went into a room and I asked if everyone in the room believed climate change was real, I'd get varying responses. As long as people vary wildly in opinion, especially in regards to what is fair and unfair, and as long as we have the core character flaws of the seven deadly sins prevalent all throughout our species, and as long as scarcity exists (which it does, oil, time, etc.) communism & marxism cannot function. Oil has acted as a torque amplifier for the human species for the past 100 years but we are treating energy as limitless and when it proves not to be, we are royally screwed. The only answer for me is Christ and He is the only thing that has brought me peace in a world swiftly devolving into chaos (relatively speaking)
Ragfell@reddit
Did the worker buy the gear necessary to make the TP?
No.
Did the worker risk their initial property on the business venture?
No.
You can talk about "owning the means of production" all you want, but until you do it yourself, you don't understand the realities behind why the owner of a business should make more than his employees.
Note: that doesn't mean he should exploit them. They deserve a good wage. But ultimately, if everything tanks before it's turned a profit, the responsibility to the banks or wherever the owner got the loan...rests on the owner.
No-Candidate6257@reddit
Did the worker have the money to do so? No - it was stolen by the parasites.
Did the worker have the money to do so? No - it was stolen by the parasites.
But the owner of a business doesn't do anything themselves. They used money made by the workers and the workers do all the work.
Does Jeff Bezos personally deliver 1.6 million parcels per day? Did Jeff Bezos build any of the storage buildings? Did Jeff Bezos build the streets? Did Jeff Bezos invent any of the technologies? Nope.
When a company fails, the workers suffer the most. The business owners usually stay rich. They paid themselves handsomely with the money made by the workers.
Ragfell@reddit
You can get a loan for starting a business from a bank, or what some friends of mine are doing now, and pooling our resources. That's why it's called "risk" -- we might fail and lose our investment in our business...but we think we can make a profit.
Note: I'm not saying that the billionaires who are doing shady things shouldn't be taken to task -- they absolutely should -- but the basic principle of what I'm saying is accurate. Starting a business always involves an element of risk. If you don't want to be a wage-slave to someone else, you have to work for yourself. The era of the salaryman is over, and it was short to begin with.
BudTheSpud421@reddit
The flip side all the gvmt had to do was tax people less so they can afford to live
Isaiah_The_Bun@reddit
if you dont like taxes or gov move to somalia. get all the freedumb you want
Bad2bBiled@reddit
That’s not the flip side, that’s adjacent.
Anyone who isn’t in the 2% is being bled at every opportunity. A greater portion of our pay goes to rent, to food, to taxes, and to transportation than billionaires and the corporations that underpay and overcharge us.
Dave37@reddit
That's like the dumbest shit I've heard. Taxes doesn't just disappear into nothing. A conscientious government spend collected taxes on well-fare and social security that benefit all. The problem in most western nations are too low taxes, where life quality services isn't guaranteed and instead corporations can extort individual and atomized people for their wealth.
Taxes makes the economy more democratic, and moves more economic activity out of the hands of our feudal lords.
FastPraline3322@reddit
the actual flip side is building some kind of society where you arent in constant survival mode just to have a warm bed and warm meal. There are actual examples of this that currently exist on the globe that are are also considered "high tax" by the people who complain about taxes and yet manage to feed and house 98-99% of their population.
hotdogjumpingfrog1@reddit
Biggest labor movement in decades. Sure people will lose work. So do those who strike.
Phantom15q@reddit
Dare I say? Based 🫢
1erRPIMA-fiesta@reddit
Et je dirai même plus: basé
GarrisonWhite2@reddit
Based as fuck, if you will.
Positive_Attitude_73@reddit
Maybe it’s relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but I can’t help but think of the environmental impact of this. So many trees cut down for nothing and all that heat and toxic pollution released into the atmosphere.
GarrisonWhite2@reddit
Yeah well they could have prevented it by not being shitty ass employers so it’s their fucking fault.
heyjajas@reddit
On the scale of our consumerism and the output that is created by the surrounding logistics of global capitalism- doesn't burning down the warehouses prevent the company from polluting earth?
tellox@reddit
They cut down all those trees for nothing; they will have to cut down even more trees to replace this inventory. They will have to use more metal, more fiberglass, more concrete to rebuild the warehouse. The emissions from this fire spread fine particulate matter across a large area, potentially affecting the health of those living nearby. The soil beneath the factory is contaminated by the ash and rubble left behind.
This was not a net-positive for the environment.
OctopusIntellect@reddit
It becomes a net positive for the environment when it's done with sufficient frequency that the insurers refuse to insure any more warehouses.
tellox@reddit
Brotherman... if there were ever a risk of insurance companies refusing to cover them, these big companies would start paying local police departments to crack down extra hard on vandals and arsonists. Not to mention that they could just hire their own private security force to secure their assets instead. Having rogue employees burning down factories is not a legitimate way to effect this kind of change.
Shoddy-Childhood-511@reddit
It's likely they can reroute through other facilities, but yes the environmental impact is positive if some warehouse burning forces people into washing diapers.
MyOtherACCBanned@reddit
Lamo we are blowing up oil fields in West Asia right now
Shoddy-Childhood-511@reddit
That reduces CO2 emissions and polution, by making the oil unavailble.
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
No - and if you have ever been in an active war zone you’ll know. The US and Israel hit oil refineries that caused a fucking black rain in Tehran. Over 5 million tons of CO2so far this. Whole earth is annually 40 million tons, for comparison. Look at the scenes.
And that’s not even considering the environment cost of concrete for reconstructions (especially Tehran and Beirut), increased emissions as millions set into cars and planes to flee etc.
MyOtherACCBanned@reddit
Yes America is gonna make a green revolution ironically enough
Shinyhaunches@reddit
I feel the same way when I see this, at the same time fuck billionaires
wvwvwvww@reddit
The biggest polluter in the world is the US military. By a long shot.
idapitbwidiuatabip@reddit
Universal basic income is the safest choice for all.
DudeCanNotAbide@reddit
Everybody needs to read and/or watch Fight Club right now.
Alive-Tooth-4369@reddit
Donate to his defense
https://gofund.me/083075b28
ccnmncc@reddit
We are at a taxation without representation moment in history.
No_Plenty5526@reddit
This hits even harder as a puertorican.
WartHogOrgyFart_EDU@reddit
I would love to sit down and hear all your thoughts from a natural both PR. I’m familiar with more than just a general idea but I know there’s so much more I could learn.
If you don’t mind and have time I’d love to hear your take on the general I guess zeitgeist (my vocabulary sucks sorry) about the how people view the us after the past decade or so.
Do you think that PR will eventually get sick of the bullshit or is the feds past or present fuckery to tied together to make a clean cut?
And it’s Friday dude do don’t waste your time if you’re busy enjoy the day and weekend homie
kismethavok@reddit
Americans haven't has representation for almost 30 years now.
ccnmncc@reddit
Arguably closer to 50 years.
thefirstspeaker@reddit
Reading about this, I’m reminded of the quote: “History is the study of those who did not learn from the past, by those who are doomed to watch them repeat it.”
We’re seeing the same patterns today that happened with the original Luddites during the 19th-century Industrial Revolution. People often call them "anti-progress" or "technophobes" now, but that’s not accurate. They were skilled workers who fought against a system that used technology to take away their skills, exploit child labour, and send all the profits to a few factory owners while the rest of the community suffered.
They weren’t fighting the machines themselves, they were fighting the fraudulent and deceitful ways those machines were used to break down social stability. Seeing how people talk about modern automation and social problems today feels like history repeating itself, where "progress" is measured only by efficiency and profit, no matter what it costs people.
It seems we still haven’t learned that when technology is used to take things away from people, social collapse isn’t just an accident. It’s something that has happened again and again throughout history.
TeaPuzzleheaded4745@reddit
I was called a Luddite recently for avoiding AI use as much as I can. My reponse? "Thank you, those folks were awesome."
MoonAndStarsTarot@reddit
I happily proclaim myself an A.I. Luddite due to my refusal to use it even though it's being forced down my throat at work at every turn. I'm a teacher and my district has encouraged (read: forced) teachers to adopt four new A.I. "tools" in the last month alone. I think we're at 15 so far this year. I put "tools" in quotations because they're literally useless and create more of a headache. I'm supposed to outsource my lesson planning to them and then I have to spend more time fixing the mistakes, hallucinations, and impossibilities than if I had just opened Google Docs and made the assignment myself.
playalovesong@reddit
You a bot?
TeaPuzzleheaded4745@reddit
Nope.
Ragfell@reddit
I've never heard that take. Got anywhere I can learn more?
Mattyreedster@reddit
The poor proles podcast just did a multi part series on the luddites a few months ago!
dinah-fire@reddit
This is a pretty good resource: https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/The-Luddites/
"In an attempt to halt or at least make the transition smoother, the Luddites initially sought to renegotiate terms of working conditions based on the changing circumstances in the workplace. Some of the ideas and requests included the introduction of a minimum wage, the adherence of companies to abide by minimum labour standards, and taxes which would enable funds to be created for workers’ pensions. Whilst these terms do not seem unreasonable in the modern day workplace, for the wealthy factory owners, these attempts at bargaining proved futile.
The Luddite movement therefore emerged when attempts at negotiation failed and their valid concerns were not listened to, let alone addressed. The Luddites activity emerged against a backdrop of economic struggle from the Napoleonic Wars which impacted negatively on the working conditions already experienced in the new factories. With the advent of new technology and more low skilled workers, this issue was exacerbated."
Ragfell@reddit
Thank you!
morganational@reddit
Lazy people trying to get paid. That's never been new.
direavenger1963@reddit
So, he doesn’t like his job. He burns down a 1.2 million square foot warehouse, causes $200 million in damage, and results in how many coworkers loose their jobs & benefits? Idiot on his way to prison.
nin3ball@reddit
Its only idiotic because alone it won't fix the problem (wealth disparity) he is pointing to in his message. If 1000 people united under this purpose and did the same thing, I think CEOs would reconsider how profits are shared. Imagine if 10k or more collectively decided that 'enough is enough'?
WarmScientist5297@reddit
We aren’t worthy!
We aren’t worthy!
Thank you
barpredator@reddit
Arson enthusiast are a whole new level of stupid. Change jobs, idiot.
Pisces93@reddit
The bread and circus is getting too expensive…
HiJinx127@reddit
Do you ever feel like you’re in a movie?
And it’s not exactly a fun movie?
zodwa_wa_bantu@reddit
Yamochao@reddit
Let this be the mantra for UBI.
If robots are going to take every job in the world, good. We need a cut.
Present-Ad6847@reddit
I mean, is it really surprised that the left loves stochastic terrorism?
n1sat@reddit
Be careful how much pay you refuse because those who have nothing have nothing to lose
sayn3ver@reddit
It's like we are on a species level speed run of ai to replace human labor.
This is an example of the consequences that the corporate overloads and billionaires and wealthy political class will mend up with.
nobodyneedz2@reddit
I keep mentally reading these things in planktons voice and idk why
Ragfell@reddit
Makes no sense -- Plankton was an aspiring business magnate lol
Classrlplayer@reddit
This is incredible to see, it makes me happy to know that there's still people with the will to fight out there.
andymorphic@reddit
battle cry
possiblecurb@reddit
Spark some copycat incidents. Hoping people will realize their infrastructure is rather flammable.
CzIitz@reddit
Born to shit. Forced to wipe.
bugabooandtwo@reddit
All he did was cost his fellow coworkers their jobs and livelihood. He is no hero.
RsquSqd@reddit
Enough of this sort of thing happens though and will change worker’s lives for the better
bugabooandtwo@reddit
Enough of this happens, and workers will be replaced by robotics.
Ezekiel_29_12@reddit
And then the replaced workers will damage the robots.
fussomoro@reddit
Delicious boot
bugabooandtwo@reddit
Boot sucks, but it's better than the noose.
HexGonnaGiveItToYa@reddit
At a certain threshold, that ceases to be true.
Soze42@reddit
I urge you to research the literal bloody history of labor rights and unions in this country. People were gunned down with machine guns and had bombs dropped on them from planes while stopping work outside of a mine. And that's just one incident on Blair Mountain. Frankly, we should be shocked and/or thankful that no one was seriously hurt. Maybe that was by design? I hope it was and not just a happy accident.
Did he cost cost people jobs in short term? Absolutely. But labor rights fought for in the past are being clawed back by the owners. And if you're waiting for them to have an epiphany and give workers what they want, I have bad news.
bugabooandtwo@reddit
And all that occurred before we had the technology to replace 99% of the workforce.
So be careful what you wish for. The ending won't be a Disney movie.
Kind-Masterpiece-310@reddit
I don’t think our wishes are being considered in any of this, lol.
AgileRaspberry1812@reddit
The only thing keeping the masses at bay is that we have something to lose. I assume you mean that when robots replace us, we'll have even less or nothing at all so we should be happy and take stock in what we do have?
Bro, we are, already, at the tipping point of having or not having something to lose. If people are at the point of burning shit down now, how do you think things are gonna go when shit gets worse?
If you think that several generations of westerners that have been brought up with expectations of economic and social agency, who are painfully aware of the fact that not receiving such agency would be the result of corporate / elite greed, are just going to roll over and die... Then I suggest you read about French history between the years 1770 - 1800
Life_Skirt_4658@reddit
you mean he cost his coworkers their jobs they are not worth working at to begin with? good!
bugabooandtwo@reddit
Tell that to the workers that now can't pay their rent or groceries.
Life_Skirt_4658@reddit
wasn't the whole reason he did this cuz you cant pay for rent and groceries even when you work there?
AgileRaspberry1812@reddit
Yes, obedience and tolerance of an abusive, exploitative system that corrupts and undermines any genuine attempt at reform is much better. Good boy.
elkandmoth@reddit
sweet delicious boot
Chrono_Pregenesis@reddit
He also cost the corporation millions in losses and lost profits. Its high time they were afraid of the workers instead of the other way around. Significant profit loss is their only fear mechanism....
123ihavetogoweeeeee@reddit
It's true. This but the whole world.
IndieStoner@reddit
I mean, ultimately, worker's rights in America boils down to getting a bigger share of the Planet Juicer's profits, but also...
ThnkWthPrtls@reddit
Billionaires and greedy CEOs, please note: the reason unions and labor laws exist is so that people don't have to do things like this to get your attention
Sassafrasian@reddit
Ain’t no excuse for starting fires. If you don’t like the place quit and look elsewhere.
Skyerocket@reddit
🥾👅
HexGonnaGiveItToYa@reddit
Oh this is beyond licking, MFer went straight to deep throat and ingest.
TGCOM@reddit
Good. I hope we see much much more of this.
that_random_scalie@reddit
This is what happens when people have nothing left to lose, just like the early industrial revolution, when worker's rights didn't exist
PupDiogenes@reddit
I guess all they had to do was pay them enough to live.
Someones_Dream_Guy@reddit
Good and actually effective form of protesting. Also, lots of bots in the comments, looks like capitalist parasites are doing damage control.
BronzeSpoon89@reddit
The American system is reaching a pint where we will either slip into further decline or changes will be made to save it.
Ragfell@reddit
Oh come on, we all know which is coming.
gwhh@reddit
One man can make a defense.
-Planet-@reddit
Muh toilet paperrrrrrrr....
Ragfell@reddit
Here we go again...
LarryCrabCake@reddit
Every letter on every OSHA and workers rights poster is written in the blood of men and women like this guy.
stupidouroboros@reddit
Crazy work but wages are low and cost of living is high in Canada.
I was originally going to take the piss bc I assumed bro was American making at least 17USD (23.5CAD) which is... kind of a standard Canadian shit wage.
orincoro@reddit
Genuinely the company could have saved $200m by paying a living wage.
ragdollxkitn@reddit
Oh they definitely could’ve but they never do.
Early-Light-864@reddit
Surely they wouldn't have saved $200M since they implies that wages are free.
I am curious what the actual cost is
SubstanceStrong@reddit
I’d vote for him
Due-Resort-2699@reddit
Well all this guys coworkers will now be unemployed and not getting paid enough to live
zzzrecruit@reddit
He literally could've just gotten a better job if he was that unhappy. Now he won't have to worry about a job.
Also, good job for ruining the lives of your ex-coworkers who likely needed their future paychecks.
bugabooandtwo@reddit
Workers at the plant were around the $25-30 mark. And it's in Canada, so there's no worries about paying out the nose for healthcare.
pursuitofpasta@reddit
Ontario, California.
Vladu24@reddit
Damn, how is your comment showing up when you're THAT disconnected?
zzzrecruit@reddit
My comment won't pay the bills of the workers who are now out of a job.
Vladu24@reddit
Neither was Kimberly-Clark.
wasraelx@reddit (OP)
Lmao I love you
battlesubie1@reddit
I would rather be out of a job because someone finally stood up - rather than being out of a job whenever corporation deemed me unnecessary or too expensive
acesorangeandrandoms@reddit
Uh huh, arson may not be the best way to do it, but somethings gotta be done. If he was brought to the point that he did this then clearly something is wrong.
I blame the employer which has 200 million in goods sitting in a wearhouse and failed to pay him enough to even scrape by.
zzzrecruit@reddit
You know what's funny, I didnt realize what sub this was in lol.
davemee@reddit
While I appreciate the sentiment and gesture, I can't help but think that insurance will be paying out, and other than a hiccup in operations the people who aren't paying enough for others to live will notice no ill effects. But everyone else, and the environment will, as you point out.
SHOWTIME316@reddit
insurance cant pay for them all, lets keep going
SHOWTIME316@reddit
i fully support the torching of more warehouses
burn them all
yaosio@reddit
More was done in this single thermodynamic event than 100 parades with "funny" signs.
leisurechef@reddit
This has United Healthcare vibes
TEUTODRAEGER@reddit
they don't care. it's priced in. if you burn every warehouse, great! they get to spend more to build more and sell more product.
EzAwnDown@reddit
Sufficient-Bid1279@reddit
It is quite the visual isn’t it…..amazing what a (likely ) hungry nothing to lose individual can do 😀
StatementBot@reddit
This post links to another subreddit. Users who are not already subscribed to that subreddit should not participate with comments and up/downvotes, or otherwise harass or interfere with their discussions (brigading)
The following submission statement was provided by /u/wasraelx:
Kimberly-Clark Distribution Center in Ontario, 29yo employee arrested over the arson, no casualties. Estimated damage around $200 million. The phrase ‘all you had to do was pay us enough to live’ comes from the arsonist filming himself starting the fires. It already got a ‘defend deny depose’ spread across social media platforms, as the images of the 1.2million square foot warehouse ablaze were released
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1shkzm0/a_whole_lot_of_this_phraseology_around_social/ofdauer/
No_Grocery_4574@reddit
I used to be pro-revolution myself, but then I realized that they aren't going to replace Capitalism with something better, they will just burn it down because they are reactionary. Zero thought as to what comes next. Perhaps we can wipe our asses with our hands. Yes, killing Capitalism is "good for the planet", but it will also kill 1-6 Billion people. The system we built is too complex and out lives depend on it running as scheduled. We can either live as kings and see the planet burn, or live like homeless in the streets with no running water and power - and still watch the planet burn.
wakeupwill@reddit
"... they aren't going to replace..."
No shit. That's why they've got to go so we can do it ourselves.
AgileRaspberry1812@reddit
Guy's over here living like a king, apparently
You act like there's no alternative between submitting to capitalism and utter anarchy. Just because you haven't thought about what comes next doesn't mean everyone else hasn't.
No_Grocery_4574@reddit
I spent my life looking for that alternative.
methadoneclinicynic@reddit
assuming all that's true, the longer capitalism goes on the more we'll be burning through the carrying capacity. Thus the longer it lasts the worse the collapse will be.
No_Grocery_4574@reddit
You are asking all of humanity to go back to the stone age today. It's a big ask. No more ChatGPT, no more Twitter or Reddit. just sit around. read books in candle light. live like the 19th century. and what will it give you? nothing. Global warming is baked in.
We are in hospice mode... Do you prefer a nice hospice with Nurses and AC and TV, or just shut everything off and wait for it to end?
Ulyks@reddit
Capitalism was never as pervasive as it is now. (With the exception of the gilded age perhaps)
It has always been a mix of state redistribution and providing common goods and services like roads and libraries.
Revolution doesn't mean going back to the middle ages.
Revolution means putting in practice the promised equality and put a stop to the rich corrupting politics with lobbying and political donations.
And reversing some of the horrible laws they passed.
midnitewarrior@reddit
Elections have consequences.
Pianpianino@reddit
Nothing new under the sun
AStayAtHomeRad@reddit
The "us" is doing a lot of work here. Like this wasn't done by a single individual.
Straight-Razor666@reddit
fuck all that. when working people realize we have the power and use it, the world will be a better place and the sociopathic parasites sucking our blood will shrivel up and die. Unless everyone has prosperity, no one should have it. A better world is possible.