Never hated myself more than after moving to Germany

Posted by Old_Bullfrog_1157@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 77 comments

To start off I want to acknowledge I'm just venting here mostly, because at this point I don't really have anyone to tell who would have anything helpful to say.

I moved to Germany when I was 20 from SA (exactly a year ago now), a very bright and beautiful country, known for having a rather friendly and open culture. Unfortunately I'm from a pretty messed up Southeast Asian family, and after studying Law for a year (forced to by my mom), being an unpaid house cleaner and cook at home while also being verbally insulted for one thing or another almost everyday, with no sense of freedom at all (was barely allowed to go out and wasn't allowed to get a job by my dad) I said screw it all. I saved up and moved here through a programme.. which went terribly of course, because I was stupid enough to think I would be able to manage freshly out of a toxic environment.

so I unfortunately left + was removed from the programme and was then homeless for a good 5 months despite having a perfectly valid visa and all my documents to do something else, purely because, and I'm assuming, discrimination? I lived with my boyfriend and his ALSO extremely emotionally abusive parents which was great because I was getting kicked out every other day just for saying Hello or using the toilet, even though I was paying to stay there by selling all my belongings.

After 5 months of that I finally was registered my residence permit by an angel at the rathaus in my city because he saw I was being unfairly dismissed despite having every available document. I started working in an FSJ in pflege, which was exciting because I figured Id actually thrive there with my passion to help and care for people.

oh well. not really. it's been pretty rough. I've been here a good 5 months now too (I believe) and I've been bullied by a group of much older people ever since. a 60 year old guy, a 20 year old girl and some 35 year old woman (plus another lady 40+). whether it was over how my German wasn't good enough (I understand that, however my first month there, how could it be good? I just started learning ), they'd make up lies about me not dojng tasks that I absolutely did do, laugh at me when I'm around and whisper things, slam the door in my face and I was told once to leave if it's not good enough here for me. the last awful incident was when I had an accident on the way to work and fell directly on my head multiple times, I was unable to sleep properly for 2-3 days because of the headache I got , and amazingly I got an infection in those days too. it was pure hell. however when I returned to work they all cornered me and said they don't believe me and feel like I lied about it all, that if Im sick or hurt I should continue walking to work no matter what. I cried so hard that day.

a week later I reported it to my boss, because I honestly felt like I couldn't work there anymore after how I felt.

I acknowledged I might come off lazy sometimes. I apologised. I said I won't do it again. however their comments never stopped.

I moved work stations a month ago now, and I work with a completely different group, however yesterday a coworker from their station told me she spoke to them and they would make fun of me almost everyday since then. saying things like "how can someone so fat and ugly have a boyfriend?" , make detailed comments on my body and how I carry myself. That it's a shock someone like me could ever be loved.

I felt such a pit in my stomach since then that I can't get out of bed. I've already dealt with relentless bullying from my family, in highschool etc. from my boyfriends own parents. I've had multiple cases in public where I've been called slurs or looked at with disgust. I'm always ignored in groups of Germans. recently I went to a programme with other FSJlers and we played a quiz game, despite calling out MULTIPLE correct answers to my group (in German of course) they ignored me. every single time.

I feel like an absolute nobody. I already deal with pretty severe self hatred. I know that that's my fault, and it's something I've wanted to work on and erase because I've finally left the source of it (my family), however, coming here proved I'm gonna face it now everyday and even worse. just yesterday a patient ranted to me about how 'disgraceful' foreigners are and I'm lucky my coworkers are nice to me.

how do you live through that and not just think of yourself as utter trash ?

I felt my confidence genuinely spike really high recently, I started expressing myself again and wearing cute things I like. then this stuff happens and I remember my 'place', that I really don't deserve to be happy and that it might actually be that most people find be vile, disgusting, a waste of space here..

I've always been so fascinated and interested in Germany. learning the language has been difficult, but fun, I love the progressive culture and the how the arts are so available here. how alternative views and lifestyles aren't so ostracized.

however it hasn't take me long to see I'm not part of that. I can't afford to be myself and be a person of colour / foreigner. I feel ashamed of myself sometimes just going out in public in my body and skin.

I know it's not gonna change, so all I can do is let it out.

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--2021--@reddit

My SO and I visited Germany once. Frankly I was a little worried about how he would experience it, he is poc and I am white, though queer and a religious minority. But this situation is not new to him, he grew up part of a very small minority in his community. And we were also meeting up with a group of people with some diversity which made it safer. Turned out his german was better than mine so people were sometimes friendlier to him than me.

I'm sorry that you went into this situation with an idealized frame of what it would be like and it turned out to be very different than what you expected. So now it becomes dealing with that. There are a lot of angles to this.

So how do you deal with this situation? You have a legacy of abuse. Which I personally have experience with, and how can have an effect on how you think, perceive, how you stand up for yourself or don't, how you set boundaries or don't. And it can leave you vulnerable to other bullies, particularly if you're different or a minority. It's kinda like a doubling down on being targeted.

I might not have the best answers as I have journeyed through life stumbling across resources and trying to figure it out without help. I can only tell you what I know.

One thing that might help is a book that discusses how people weaponize social situations or bully, and how you can deflect them. There's a book called "The Gift of Fear", read some of it a while ago, one thing I recall was it talked about "interviewing". So basically people test you to see what they can get away with. And if you don't assertively protect your boundaries, they will know they can get away with bullying you. If I recall correctly it's a white male author, the victims are often women. It may not be intersectional.

I kinda scanned it for anything that I could use quickly or topics I might want to learn more about and didn't go into much depth. There were a few interesting points I found helpful for me. Others might know of resources that may be more tailored towards you. Whether it's you dealing with racism, or dealing with bulling in the workplace, living as an expat, etc. The information is out there, it is a matter of seeking it out. Most of the time the information will be partial or imperfect and you are finding ways to use it as best you can to get further than where you are now.

It may help to seek out peer or support groups that feel welcoming to you. People who may share similar experiences and have tips for deflecting, redirecting, or turning the tables on people to work things in your favor. Whether they are expats from your country, a group centered on your culture. It's hard say. Belonging can be complicated. Was having a discussion of belonging long ago, and one person spoke about being black, growing up in a black neighborhood, but being relentlessly bullied because her mother was from a certain country. And then had to deal with racism outside the neighborhood. I have my own issues with belonging that I don't quite fit in anywhere, but I still talk to people and glean what I can. Sometimes it's the best you can do.

One aspect of bullying is messed up boundaries, so you take responsibility for things that are not yours, and maybe also don't take responsibility for what is yours.

I already deal with pretty severe self hatred. I know that that's my fault, and it's something I've wanted to work on and erase because I've finally left the source of it (my family)

The abuse you endured was not your fault, the self hatred is not your fault. Fault(blame) I feel is really more of weapon of emotional abuse. It can serve to keep a power dynamic or keep you trapped in a situation. Blaming yourself or others won't get you anywhere. It won't get you justice, it won't get you validation, it won't get you healing.

There is responsibility as what you own or take on as yours. What your family and others did was wrong, and it affected you. You are dealing with the aftermath of that, of social conditioning and behaviors that maybe helped you survive that environment but no longer serve you. And the environment you're in you're facing racism.

It becomes a matter of accepting the situation you're in, that doesn't mean it's ok, or you're ok, but you accept the reality of it. And you figure out what to do. Maybe you can't get to a place right now where you feel good, but you can figure out how to make it less bad. Find ways to deal with the bullies, find ways to protect yourself better, find others who validate and support you. And keep improving your situation. You may be guessing in the dark at first, but you can still stumble across information you can use. Keep seeking resources, information, create tools for yourself. Build out a plan to get to a better place.

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Zenzappppper@reddit

save and move. You young you can do it.

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cryingingerman@reddit

Hi OP,
I'm sorry you're going through this. Germany is a tough culture, and unfortunately, there is a lot of bullying here, even in professional environments. It's so common that it's referred to as "mobbing" in clinical language, so you'll also be able to find a lot of support to deal with it.

In your situation, the first thing is to go to your Hausarzt (GP) and get a referral for therapy, and maybe some time off, if possible. It's also important that you don't lose whatever financial independence you do have. If you don't want to go through the regular process of getting therapy, I'd recommend calling a hotline, either one that is specialized for women (Frauenberatungsstelle) or one for racism/discrimination. They will be able to help you, or at least make a plan together with you on how to move forward.

Yes, it's difficult in Germany as a foreigner. But don't let that stop you from building a safe and meaningful life here. It is possible, and support exists. Don't let them chase you out. You deserve to be here as much as anyone else.

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wytnesschancealt@reddit

It's so common that it's referred to as "mobbing" in clinical language

This is a bit of an odd sentence. "Mobbing" is just the German word for bullying, which is.. common and thus has a word in the English language.

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cryingingerman@reddit

Let me clarify further. When you search for therapists, it often comes up as a topical specialization. And that's not the case in other countries.

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wytnesschancealt@reddit

Do you seriously imply that bullying isn't a common occurrence in other countries?

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cryingingerman@reddit

There are countries where bullying occurs more. And then there are countries where it is less of a problem socially. It's common enough in Germany that psychological and social help exists exclusively for victims of bullying, and if you tell doctors about it, they will not be surprised.

You don't have to react negatively to my comment. You know I wasn't claiming that bullying doesn't exist in other countries. I was commenting on the magnitude of the problem.

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wytnesschancealt@reddit

Okay I'm not sure what 'reacting negatively' to your comment means (unless you don't like being criticised on reddit). But bear in mind that when you frame something a certain way, or say 'it's not the case in other countries', or talk about the 'magnitude of the problem', you are indeed implying that Germany may be one of the worst offenders in this regard, or that it belongs somewhere at the top end of the scale, even though you aren't saying the sentence 'there's no bullying elsewhere'. It also sounds like you might be jumping to the wrong conclusion (e.g. that fewer specialists automatically means it's less of a problem, rather than there being more awareness about this).

Reliable data on this is hard to come by, but whenever you find studies that compare different countries, Germany ends up somewhere in the middle (https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1qwjkrw/percentage_of_students_aged_1315_years_who/; https://qz.com/365799/austria-has-the-most-bullying-in-the-western-world-sweden-has-the-least; https://www.oecd.org/en/about/programmes/pisa.html), so not great, but not terrile.

The way you phrase things makes a difference. If OP gets the impression that Germany is a particularly bad country in this regard, she might jump to the wrong conclusion (regardless of the fact that moving back or somewhere else might be a better idea for her, all things considered). She might think that things will get better for her, when maybe they won't. Alternatively, she might think it's a particular German problem and give up on trying to improve her situation here that would need another focus (maybe the particular workplace, or maybe her socioeconomically very strenious situation). In my opinion it does make quite a difference where Germany falls compared to other countries, and yes, statements like this might be misleading.

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JaviMT8@reddit

You're definitely reacting negatively, as an outside observer of you in this thread, you're coming off as pretty defensive.

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Squawk1000@reddit

Mobbing has an English origin ('mob') and is a pretty common sociological term throughout Europe.

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wytnesschancealt@reddit

I'm not sure whether I got you correctly here. Of course it's a term that originated in English but it means bullying in German, it's one of those "false friends". Meaning Germans always think mobbing means bullying in English and students stay "I've experienced mobbing" and then they are always corrected by teachers because the English term is bullying.

They are referring to UN country codes.

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Environmental_Bat142@reddit

It is not even Zuid Afrika in the local language. That was the Dutch form. In Afrikaans it is also SA (Suid- Afrika)

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Old_Bullfrog_1157@reddit (OP)

Ah well we call it SA too. I assumed people generally knew it that way, my mistake

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Environmental_Bat142@reddit

South Africans always refer to it as SA. But I think in the global context it can be confusing .

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_Anonie_@reddit

The previous commenter was wrong OP. Rest of the planet knows it as SA.

"The most common initials and abbreviations for Saudi Arabia are KSA (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia), SA (ISO 2-letter code), and SAU (ISO 3-letter code). These are used for international identification, sports broadcasting, and formal documentation.

KSA: Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (Commonly used to represent the full title) SA: ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 code SAU: ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 code SAR: Saudi Riyal (Currency code) .sa: Country-code top-level domain (ccTLD) "

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Alt_CauseIwasNaughty@reddit

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MysAlgernon@reddit

Why not move to a different city?

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Professional_Ad_6462@reddit

There is always more to the story for sure. But this your here for a week you should be speaking near native fluency of German, Dutch, Spanish was not near as prevalent before the new European nationalism-tribalism.

I assure you many of the German Engineers I worked with in Silicon valley in the early 2000’s did not have anywhere near native fluency and say what you will about the U.S. no one gave them shit about it.

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Old_Bullfrog_1157@reddit (OP)

Yeah it's pretty brutal. I think it was yesterday when a patient came up to me and said it's good I speak German because foreigners are 'disgraceful' to be around these days. I think the pressure to be fluent in such a short time is a bit. Unfair. There's a guy who works with me from the UK, he's been here 30 years and doesn't even speak that well...

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Professional_Ad_6462@reddit

Yes I have worked all over Europe. Born in Denmark decades ago. Grew up In the U.S. worked in Europe since 95. I speak German, Danish, and passable Portuguese. This language requirement on exiting the jet bridge is an intolerant newer development.

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lnxkwab@reddit

I assure you many of the German Engineers I worked with in Silicon valley in the early 2000’s did not have anywhere near native fluency and say what you will about the U.S. no one gave them shit about it.

Lmao terrible, tone-deaf comparison.

American culture inherently worships European identity, that’s why. Compare the general acceptance of those German engineers to the acceptance toward H1B Visa engineers(especially tech ones, since you’re in the SV space), or even less favorably looked-upon places like South America, Africa, or countries we had been told to hate like China or Russia.

Have you looked for a job in Berlin yet?

If OP is going to work in Pflege, Berlin isn't going to be a big change either. I have heard similar stories about workplace mobbing and racism in Berlin.

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Vladimir_Putting@reddit

You're 20.

No one is going to give a fuck about you moving back from Germany. People will ask you about it, you will answer and then life will move on. 20 year olds move to exciting places where it doesn't work out all the time.

It's not "humiliated for life". Not even close.

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Ramroom_619@reddit

I’m sorry you’re going through such a tough time. Try to take care of yourself, taking it one day at a time. Those sad people being mean to you.. it’s a reflection of the emptiness in their lives. They’re pathetic and do not deserve to have a negative influence on your life.

I would concentrate on learning German and gradually trying to improve your self-esteem and mental health, which is clearly a mess.

Your problems won't be very different in another country where you can only do unqualified jobs and don't speak the language.

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Old_Bullfrog_1157@reddit (OP)

I've been doing that ever since the beginning of the bullying. I never stopped learning German and I can now have pretty intense conversations even if my responses aren't all well articulated in return. I also have gotten some materials and plan on enrolling in a course for higher level German, but people won't like me whether or not I can speak the language lol.

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GingerPrince72@reddit

If you've already decided in advance that people won't like you then no, they won't.

You've only been there for 5 months, it takes time to acquire a decent level of German, be patient with yourself and others. Stick with German and Germany but it won't change overnight.

Think about it, why would a German be delighted to meet someone who is a walking pity party, defensive, negative and has zero optimism about friendship?

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Old_Bullfrog_1157@reddit (OP)

Fair enough. I know I'm extremely negative but I feel like when I actually tried to be happy and friendly I often get pushed all the way down. I'll just try to forget about it and move on. Maybe one day in the near future it'll hurt less

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Hopeful_Hunt6988@reddit

In Europe the people will make excuses for their very shameful behaviour, it is embedded in the culture. They are a horrid people they will even go as far as saying your the problem yet they want to live all over the world and be accepted.

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Human-Ad4723@reddit

People in Germany like to see others suffer, and they do not like when others are happy and friendly. If you want to learn a German word that will explain a lot: Schadenfreude.

My advice for you is to stay professional, do not let them see your emotions, document everything (in writing). If you can, try to get to a different place, Heidelberg has a good reputation for how they treat their foreign nurses.

Jozefstoeptegel@reddit

Sounds like you have a lot going on, internally and externally. If I were you, I would make an appointment with your GP to get a referral for some sort of therapy. I've done so for less than what you're dealing with, and it's really helped.

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utsu31@reddit

Is there any possibility of finding other expats from SA? While I of course don't recommend you neglect your attempts at integration, in the end the most important thing is that you can be mentally healthy. So finding people from a similar background might help with feeling lonely and relativizing your experiences.