Getting Laid Off Without Warning Taught Me Everything I Need to Know About Workplace Loyalty
Posted by Mediocre_Isopod_1259@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 228 comments
Got laid off under the label of “business restructuring,” and the way it was handled says a lot about how some companies operate.
I understand layoffs happen. Markets change. Businesses make decisions.
But what is increasingly frustrating is seeing profitable mid-sized companies hide behind the broader tech-layoff narrative created by giants like Oracle and others—using “restructuring” as a blanket justification while continuing executive spending and operating from positions of financial strength.
In my case:
- I was in my regular stand-up call minutes before being informed.
- No prior indication that my role was at risk.
- Within 10 minutes, all access was revoked.
- Decision appeared to be driven remotely by leadership with little to no understanding of the team, product, or the work being delivered.
What makes it worse is when capable engineers doing meaningful work—especially in fast-moving areas like AI—are reduced to spreadsheet entries in decisions made oceans away by people disconnected from ground reality.
Layoffs may be business.
Dehumanizing execution is a leadership choice.
Posting this because candidates deserve to know how some organizations treat employees when priorities shift.
P.S. Used AI for paraphrasing
skidmark_zuckerberg@reddit
Same here man. Spent 5 years at my last job. The entire day was business at usual, then people start getting random HR zoom meeting invites. A couple people started posting on slack about it. Then it was my turn. Worked until 2:30pm had all my daily meetings up until that point, even ones my direct manager was involved in. After my layoff meeting, access to my computer was revoked within 30 seconds. 5 years of my life dedicated to working for this place just shut down immediately.
I’m over it now, been a couple weeks. But I’ll never trust another company again. There need to be laws in the US that require unemployment insurance to be paid by companies for a set time. I.e a mandatory 6 month severance where you are paid your salary for that duration. That or some tax penalties that scale with every person laid off.
I worked for a very profitable medium sized SaaS company, the problem was the founders wanted a payout so they took a large investment from private equity a few years ago which they then took majority ownership by 51%. So we all know how PE operates, you have to infinitely increase profit year over year. And if you don’t, the answer is to cut payroll. Well jokes on them because we were already struggling to keep up with the workload since our dev and product team was only 24 people. It’s now 11 after the last layoff round. The last time the company had this many people in the dev department was 8 years ago when the company was half the size and doing half the business. Guess it makes sense to gut the only department that is responsible for there being a software product to sell in the first place!!
menckenjr@reddit
Take this lesson to heart.
Organic_Battle_597@reddit
Indeed, if you want to feel loyalty to anyone, make it your teammates. The relationship with the company is 100% business, full stop.
krugerlock400@reddit
Worked in the social good space, spent 11 years there, got 3 months severance. Which I was grateful for, but I ended up spending 8 months unemployed doing all the things I could to find a job. And I consider myself somewhat lucky. My job could have planned better, should have planned better, but they didn't.
ray_oliver@reddit
There couldn't possibly be unintended consequences to policies like this, right?
Groove-Theory@reddit
like job security?
ray_oliver@reddit
It would almost certainly result in fewer jobs.
Groove-Theory@reddit
That's a pretty strong statement something with zero evidence behind it. Companies hire when there’s demand for labor that generates profit, not just for fun. That dynamicc doesn’t magically disappear because layoffs have a cost. It just means companies have to plan (like adults) instead of treating human being disposable.
Companies love using economic arguments to justify their decision yet somehow pretend to live in a world where they can make decisions outside of economic dynamics.
You're basically arguing that the only reason jobs exist is because companies can fire people with zero consequences. Do you reallty think almost every business model would collapse the second it has to treat workers with basic stability? Can the economy only run if it treats workers like dogshit?
(Also, countries with stronger labor protections and severance requirements still... u know have jobs. Weird how reality keeps not matching this "any worker protection kills employment" bullshit")
ray_oliver@reddit
That's definitely not the argument I'm making. I didn't say there wouldn't be any jobs - just fewer.
Do you not think that things like this are a factor when places like Canada and EU have more protections but lower salaries and fewer opportunities than the U.S.?
I'm also not saying that there shouldn't be any protections at all but there needs to be balance. A blanket six months of salary for all workers who are affected by layoffs doesn't strike me as reasonable though I would be onboard with some sort of sliding scale based on tenure.
Groove-Theory@reddit
Two things are getting mixed together here. Lower salaries in places like Canada or EU also come with stronger safety nets and lower healthcare costs... annnnd less risk of your life imploding overnight. You’re comparing raw salary numbers without accounting for total stability and quality of life that we don't have here in the U.S.
The U.S. has higher salaries BECAUSE (at least partially) it offloads risk onto workers (healthcare tied to jobs, minimal severance, weak safety nets, etc). Of course companies can pay more when they have no onus of responsiblity for your stability.
It's as if you think the extreme volatility of the U.S market is actually a good thing?
Again, companies hire when there's demand, not because layoffs are cheap. A strategy such as adding codified severance just forces them to be more deliberate about hiring and scaling instead of over-hiring and then dumping people the second growth dips.
skidmark_zuckerberg@reddit
This person must love being treated as a disposable piece of meat. I think the Pandemic era boom for jobs, where companies were clearly getting free or low interest cash injections and hiring like they were going to 20x in the next 5 years, really highlights your point of how companies need to plan better. Almost every tech based company did this, and when reality inevitably hits and their platform or product actually wasn't going to 20x, they decided to cut people across the board. Not only did this era of hiring completely disrupt the job market, it also made young people think that simply going to school for CS was a golden ticket.
So as a consequence we are left with an oversaturated market of new grads and juniors. The jobs just aren't there and people are realizing that they likely got a useless degree because they don't have any experience to even get the jobs in the first place. This was all artificial, and not a single company has been penalized for this behavior at all. It completely disrupts the economy and sends people down fruitless career paths in college, and guess what? There is absolutely zero consequence for it.
skidmark_zuckerberg@reddit
Likely a bit too drastic, but alternatively we just cannot ignore the lack of worker protections in the US. Almost every country in the EU is capitalistic yet they have regulations for worker protections. A company should have to jump through hoops to lay you off, and especially if they are laying of tenured employees. There needs to be a mandatory notice period of at least 2-3 months, companies should have to justify the layoffs through some federal based system, and severance should be scaled based on your tenure.
But we will never have that because large corporations can lobby in the US to prevent any pro-worker regulations being passed.
ray_oliver@reddit
The EU also has much lower salaries and fewer opportunities though. These things go hand in hand.
Thick_Tackle8031@reddit
The job of the law makers is to think and address these issues beforehand by modifying the given proposals accordingly.
We can argue about the details. The main thing is, do you agree with the "spirit" of the proposed law?
ray_oliver@reddit
Not really, because it would absolutely result in lower salaries and fewer jobs created.
juusorneim@reddit
What do you mean?
Headpuncher@reddit
Laws governing employment are also a choice. One your government decided did not matter.
While I fully agree that how it was handled was a company choice there’s also the excuse that they’re operating within their rights as an employer. The real problem is that as an employee you have none. I know this doesn’t help you in any way.
Ysilla@reddit
I moved countries a few times, and this has always been a HUGE factor for me when deciding where I was going. I've never worked in a country where what OP describes would even be legal.
I've seen quite a number of "restructures" over the years where good people have been laid off with questionable reasons, but these always happened over multiple months, and with ample warnings (and help, both for people leaving and remaining).
sklz0@reddit
But it's legal almost everywhere, maybe with a bit more paperwork on the employer's side and a guaranteed severance
kennethbrodersen@reddit
Wait what? Off cause it is legal to lay people off! Otherwise businesses would move somewhere else.
The key is to make surf people have s reasonable chance for moving on with their life.
I have at least four months guaranteed pay + up to 2 years reduced pay provided by the government in case j loose my job.
That is a pretty good compromise
Organic_Battle_597@reddit
Anecdotally, I've never worked any place that didn't offer what amounted to six months severance for layoffs. I'm sure it happens, but that is my experience. Combined with the substantially higher salaries, I think the trade-off is fine. We have unemployment insurance in the US, too, which works similarly to the "2 years reduced pay" you are referring to.
sklz0@reddit
Yeah, but salaries are much higher in the US, and taxes are lower, so it feels like it pretty much evens out if you save the difference yourself…
kennethbrodersen@reddit
I doo agree with that. There are no free lunch - but I do appreciate the middle ground allowing a decent amount of flexibility for companies while providing a basic safety net for people.
By the way. It’s also a little easier to save up money when your education is free 😎
luctus_lupus@reddit
Lol no, just shitholes like USA
Organic_Battle_597@reddit
Shitholes like the USA where your salary is 2-3x as much (or more), which really helps mitigate the lack of loyalty you may feel.
DigmonsDrill@reddit
OP isn't in America.
sklz0@reddit
Well, tell that to your EU colleagues that got laid off.
shirokuma_uk@reddit
I went through the layoffs at Google. - In the US, colleagues disappeared overnight. - In France, they were not able to do any layoffs because the company is not losing money. - In the UK (where I work), the company had to organise a consultation process (which can’t legally be shorter than 45 days when there’s more than 99 layoffs, otherwise it’s 30 days). During that time, employees elected some representatives and there were a few rounds of discussions between HR and the elected representatives. Negotiations around the severance packages lead to a few improvements (cynics will say these were planned from the beginning by the company and offered to show their goodwill). During these 45 days, we learnt also the scope of the layoffs per division and job role.
CheeseOnFries@reddit
Layoffs like this are brutal on relationships with coworkers too. I’ve had some coworkers completely cut off contact with me because they were cut and I wasn’t. It sucks all around.
sgs4b-nito80@reddit
coworkers aren't friends
Organic_Battle_597@reddit
That's pretty sad. They may not be best friends, but these are people you work with all day, every day, and the odds are pretty good that you spend more time with them than you do with your 'real' friends. If you are not sociopathic, you definitely have a relationship with them.
Ugikie@reddit
Exact same thing happened to me in December after 5 years on a very small team. No indication my role was at risk, gone within minutes, and haven’t heard from a single soul since. Not sure what I did to deserve this as I was the most loyal and devoted employee. But as others said, I guess that’s just how it goes. Sorry it happened to you as well, hope you found a new opportunity :/
floofsnsnoots@reddit
You did Not Being In the Club, the most egregious of crimes.
Meta_Machine_00@reddit
They do it because lawyers tell them to do it. Clean separation means that you are less likely to have a case for a lawsuit. You essentially become a potential legal opponent and they need to cease communication because anything you communicate can be used against the company.
alpacaMyToothbrush@reddit
I've seen you post this twice now and no, firing people via email or a short 15m all hands is not to avoid a lawsuit, it's because leadership are fucking psychopaths. You want to do it properly? You sit the employee down with their manager, explain that this is happening as a decision of upper management, not their performance. It's a tough conversation to have, but you owe it to them. The fact that you keep insisting otherwise says a lot about you, and none of it good
Meta_Machine_00@reddit
You dont understand the law or business. Firstly in business, you "owe" nothing to anyone, ever. You never admit any sort of fault unless you are forced to.
I dont care about your personal opinion regarding my character and neither will a business. The opinions that matter are those of a judge or jury. And this is why they limit communications. Because people like you think they are owed the world and they will get emotional and go out of their way to cause damage.
alpacaMyToothbrush@reddit
Reputation matters more than you think in this business, and you pay for a bad one, one way or another. If the standard for your behavior is to get by with the absolute minimum of ethics legally permissible, I don't think there's that much more for us to discuss.
Windyvale@reddit
Executives should be fired first but since they make that decision they will never hold themselves responsible for leading the company poorly.
floofsnsnoots@reddit
The Internal Affairs playbook. We investigated ourself and found no incompetence.
Mundane-Charge-1900@reddit
It’s no panacea either. When I got laid off it was a couple months after the founding CEO was fired. The board lost confidence, brought in a sales guy as the new CEO and layoffs were the (in retrospect) predictable result.
spez_eats_nazi_ass@reddit
I’ve actually seen that happen 1x in my career. Cio was taken out as well as most of it as a restructuring suggestion from Grant Thorton. Who then proceeded to help drive the company into a crater.
Windyvale@reddit
I’ve seen them purged wholesale but usually because of an acquisition. Not personally seen one held accountable for poor planning that results in the need for front-line layoffs.
floofsnsnoots@reddit
Always assume it's when not if. Plan accordingly.
YoiTzHaRamBE@reddit
Were you at Home Depot? This is exactly how it went at Home Depot, except my access persisted for a couple of hours
ColumbaPacis@reddit
You are complaining about capitalism, and the culture that follows it.
Sadly, that is not something even 10 million daily reddit posts will change.
angry_old_dude@reddit
OP isn't looking to change anything. Sometimes you just have to get it off your chests. It also a reminder to people that companies will fuck over anyone, no matter how experienced or how much someone has contributed.
angry_old_dude@reddit
Not from my perspective. What they're complaining is about unchecked capitalism with a side of a lack of worker protections.
cppfnatic@reddit
Jesus fucking christ this has nothing do with capitalism, go study economics. This is an american problem
aventus13@reddit
Is there no capitalism outside of the US? Most of the world is capitalistic one way or the other. It's not about capitalism but about what regulations and employment laws there are. For example, what the OP is describing couldn't have taken place in Europe- or most European countries that I'm aware of at least. It's a balancing act- over regulation is bad, but too little regulation isn't much better either.
computer_porblem@reddit
there's capitalism plus socialism outside of the US. most of the world is capitalist in one way or another because the capitalists have spent the last century propagandizing and sometimes overthrowing democratically elected governments to "defend" capitalism, because the point of capitalism is that the line has to go up forever. regulatory capture is part of it.
Nervous-Falcon9572@reddit
No, it can happen. Happened to me. They just pay you out according to how many regs they break. They know exactly how much to pay you out so its not so bad its insulting but not worth it to take them to court. Justice is expensive. Especially in the UK.
byshow@reddit
The issue is indeed how much capitalism is regulated. In the EU it's a somewhat balanced mix of capitalism and socialism(worker rights protection, medical insurance for everyone, free education, unions). The US successfully got rid of most of those things, and introduced lobbying, which is a legal corruption that allows the rich to do whatever they want.
08148694@reddit
Well on the other hand that system enables us to have incredible standards of living and demand huge salaries so it’s not all bad
sgs4b-nito80@reddit
your incredible standard of living is subsidized by theft, death, and genocide...
The West steals $10 Trillion - $12 Trillion/yr in embodied raw material equivalents, embodied land, embodied energy, and embodied labour.
The economic growth and so-called advanced economies (think Germany, The U.S, Japan, etc. - what's been referred to as the “Global North”) relies by a large proportion on a significant net appropriation of resources and labor from the “Global South” (think Kenya, Peru, the Philippines, etc). This appropriation reaches astronomical levels. In 2015 alone, the north appropriated 12 billion tons of embodied raw material equivalents, 822 million hectares of embodied land, 21 exajoules of embodied energy, and 188 million person-years of embodied labor; worth [a total] $10.8 Trillion in northern prices. Enough to end extreme poverty 70x over.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095937802200005X
angriest_man_alive@reddit
There is nothing capitalist about having or not having the tact to give people a decent heads up. I dont understand every time a business makes a poor or dumb decision people go straight to blaming capitalism. Has nothing to do with it.
upsidedownshaggy@reddit
Lmao it has everything to do with it.
The capitalists in this situation, the share holders, are making decisions that maximize the gains they get off of their shares. Take a wild guess which options makes them more money:
A) Firing X number of people over an e-mail with no notice period and no severance
B) Giving X number of people a notice period to get their resumes in order that you have to pay them for, and provide a severance pay that you also have to pay for so that way employees who don't have significant savings in cash aren't immediately cash poor.
angriest_man_alive@reddit
???? What?? Severance is entirely unrelated to the amount of heads up you give people.
If youre planning to fire people in a month, it makes zero difference if you tell them a month ahead or if you tell them the day of. Theres no significant cost incurred by telling them earlier. In fact its cheaper, because if they leave voluntarily you dont have to pay severance or their unemployment.
This isnt a capitalism thing, this is a stupidity thing
ECTXGK@reddit
People are crashing out, murdered ceos and burning warehouses. The language of the helpless.
byshow@reddit
Nothing will change capitalism except for revolution. I'd say we're heading towards corporatism in cyberpunk2077 style where human life means nothing, billions are dying but 1% lives a wealthy life and having a casino on the moon.
hippydipster@reddit
What would be helpful is to design a way to live that allows a person to exist in some degree of comfortable circumstance, but to withdraw their participation in capitalism as much as possible. If enough people did that, there would be changes in our world.
I don't know what that life looks like, but if I had to guess, it'd be something like the earlyretirementextreme blog.
NewFuturist@reddit
Maybe the purpose is not to change the system, but change/warn people?
supyonamesjosh@reddit
The issue with warning people is you dont want people to either sabotage what they are working on or just quit on the spot in case something changes.
It's a dumb situation and ideally competent companies move over highly performing people beforehand, but some companies are just not run well
Mediocre_Isopod_1259@reddit (OP)
I know but still I'll sshare anyway to get if off me, i know I'll find a new job soon but now i'll always be a little conscious
Successful_Creme1823@reddit
I just presume every company would grind me into a meat pulp and sell me for consumption if it allowed their stock price to go up .1%
That’s why I contract. It just acknowledges reality.
CorrectPeanut5@reddit
What gets me is so many devs are loyal. I contract and I see a lot of shops. Even when the market is red hot I see devs stick with crappy management and mediocre pay increases. If you're not seeing appreciation in your paycheck why are you staying?
WhenSummerIsGone@reddit
is the grass really greener elsewhere? what if i give up my relationships, social capital, domain knowledge, for nothing? It's like packing up and moving to another state, where you have to start all over. There's a cost. Also the cost of job hunting means there's other things i'm not doing with my time.
I'd do it for a significant pay bump.
cuntsalt@reddit
I mean, every new job I've gotten has been a significant pay bump. latest job was a 50% bump. 100%, if you consider equity monopoly money. that would never have been possible even if I'd spent the rest of my life at the prior company. all of the raises out of previous jobs have been like that -- they are happy to go 1-5% yearly whereas I can go 20-50% jumping.
the domain knowledge tends to transfer over or at least provide a basis for restart anyway. the other things you mentioned (relationships, social, etc.) have never mattered -- I speak to all of two people out of my previous jobs. the latest one I left I was quite close (in a work sense) with several people and only one of them has reached out to continue any sort of communication.
it'd be nice if those things mattered but the cash lining my pockets is king.
SarmackaOpowiesc@reddit
The bumps eventually stop. After 20 years of doing this - the annual COL adjustment is more then I would get if I tried to look elsewhere.
There are handful of companies left in the US that would pay me more - and I would need to uproot my entire family to fucking California. And even then - the COL increases would largely negate the salary increase. Thanks but hard pass.
Wide_Obligation4055@reddit
I stayed in my third job, a public sector University job, for 16 years. Pay was stagnant for the last 6 years of that.
Then did 3 years Oracle which gave me a significant increase thanks to the redundancy, 3 at another tech company, now my current company 4 years. I earn literally double what I did at the University, with less workload and stress. I should of left the University 8 years earlier. But never mind, I have been lucky doing a job I enjoyed from start of the web, the cloud and now to the end of manual coding with AI.
Just a few years left as an Agentic coder and I am done.
CorrectPeanut5@reddit
I move shops often and yeah, a lot of times it is greener. If a person is stuck in a position and getting mediocre raises is doesn't take that many years before simply moving for market rate is a significant pay bump.
Beyond that, the boomerang is real. I see people leave, and come back for higher pay and position all the time. If you're professional and don't burn bridges you can actually end up with a large pool of people for relationships and social capital.
baezizbae@reddit
Waiting out that vesting schedule, and then it's outtie 500.
z500@reddit
Better the devil you know
CorrectPeanut5@reddit
That's how people end up 40-50% under market on their comp.
Fluffatron_UK@reddit
.1%?! That's some valuable meat pulp you have there
Successful_Creme1823@reddit
I agree needs many more zeros
IntelligentFire999@reddit
Agree. Even though I have never contracted, my understanding so far is contracting is transactional every step of the way, and both sides retain a better balanced control of the situation vs. full time employment.
Successful_Creme1823@reddit
They can cut you any day for any reason.
You get a thin veneer of a safety blanket as an employee I guess. You can see how thin it is right now.
Meta_Machine_00@reddit
They dont think of you individually from a stock price perspective. Businesses are legal entities. Everything they do is lower the risk of a lawsuit. Being cold and cutting clean is advice their lawyers will give them, and they are often legally expected to do for the health of the company.
Successful_Creme1823@reddit
Oh I know they don’t think of me at all. Just a blob in the horde of “resources” that cost them money. That’s kind of my point.
Meta_Machine_00@reddit
What do you expect to get out of more humane treatment? I think it is far more problematic that you are so emotionally volatile and obsess over something that has absolutely zero benefit for you.
Successful_Creme1823@reddit
I’m the opposite of emotionally volatile on this subject.
I expect the absolute lowest level of treatment from my corporate overlords.
I’m not obsessing over anything. I’m not even mad at how it is. The same system gets me higher pay than anywhere else in the world. (For now)
IntelligentFire999@reddit
Then they should instruct employees (managers) to stop using words like "family", "we are in this together", etc when describing their teams. Saying so is a clear breach of the corporate cold principles u mention here.
Meta_Machine_00@reddit
In USA at least, they have to worry about discrimination and hostile environment. If you go in front of a judge and say "they told us that we were family" then it seems a lot less hostile and discriminatory to a reasonable person.
ryhaltswhiskey@reddit
At the end of the day you are an entry in a spreadsheet. If someone hits recalc and your entry goes from keep to fire, you're gone. That's everything you need to know about loyalty.
m1nkeh@reddit
Sucks to live in the US I guess without any employment law :/
Mediocre_Isopod_1259@reddit (OP)
I'm in India, this was a US company with office in India but my role was remote
m1nkeh@reddit
even though you are a remote employee, you surely are still bound by your local country employment law?
Mediocre_Isopod_1259@reddit (OP)
Directly. They are an MNC. India is a shit hole country when it comes to labour laws
m1nkeh@reddit
I think the thing that this all starts with is this your employment in general comply with Indian law??
For example, do you have a contract?
Mediocre_Isopod_1259@reddit (OP)
yes, it does comply with indian laws. As I mentioned they have a registered office in India.
m1nkeh@reddit
Well, if you have an Indian entity and I assume an Indian contract, they cannot just cut you off because that is in breach of Indian law
cppfnatic@reddit
Gpt post
little_breeze@reddit
been laid off as well, and once I realized I'm just a number to them, things actually became much simpler. you're not a "family", and loyalty isn't rewarded at all. it's just a two-way transaction, and that's all we signed up for
kennethbrodersen@reddit
So I - in general - am very happy with my workplace. But sometimes upper management does crappy things that doesn’t make sense.
It’s a business - not a family.
I have regular coffee meetings with old compacts and talk to competitors of ours once in a while.
I am (hopefully) not going anywhere anytime soon. But it doesn’t hurt to have a few options to choose from if the need arise.
ericmutta@reddit
This is such a recurring theme everywhere you look and is the tech equivalent of "Let them eat cake". The revolution is coming because unlike poor peasants with pitchforks, we are software engineers that can put rockets in space.
ColonelKlanka@reddit
Brutal way for management to handle it - Sorry to hear you went through it.
Ive learnt very quickly via a few redundencies early in my career: Dont expect any loyalty from companies.
They do what they need to for profit.
That includes mind games too.
Although that being said, there are many staff in companies that won't take it to the extremism that you have experienced - after all we are all human and they wouldn't like to be treated badly either.
Keep your chin up - hopefully, your next job will be a vast improvement.
iamsuperhuman007@reddit
Sometimes it’s not even profit, but keeping shareholders happy which is their main job to get money in, sad reality of life.
AffectionateBill7440@reddit
blaming remote leaders seems too simplistic sometimes
ColonelKlanka@reddit
remote leaders? I didn't say anything about remote leaders.
Did you reply to the wrong comment? easilly done in reddit! lol
Wide_Obligation4055@reddit
I got laid off by Oracle in 2018, it was text book way to do it. Rumours of lay offs for a few weeks then a one to one with my manager. A month's notice, time to do hand over meetings plus various trainings offered for getting g a new job, setting up as a consultant. Plus option of redundancy pool. Plus 6 months redundancy pay off. There were 3000 of us laid off then.
Seems like when its 30,000 Oracle through all that good practice out the window and told everyone to F off via email overnight with all access immediately revoked.
I guess Clay Magouyrk is a shit head where as Safra Katz was a decent person?
Proof-Yam7722@reddit
sounds like a brutal way to handle things, sadly becoming too common
Known-Garden-5013@reddit
6 months redundancy pay? how is that brutal. 6 months to find a position with 0 other responsibilities in 2018 would have been a blessing lol
PackageOdd4820@reddit
i had a similar experience with a sudden layoff, felt like i was just a number.
putin_my_ass@reddit
We are just a number.
Not to our direct reports of course, but to the people who own the business (and therefore make the decisions) we are just a number.
TheThobes@reddit
"One layoff is a tragedy. A million layoffs is a statistic"
~Joseph Stalin~
Larry Ellison
ahrzal@reddit
We are a resource that happens to be human. We are always a number, just as our hours given to them are a number.
hoopaholik91@reddit
Same. I think I'm always going to be looking over my shoulder from now on, or at least until this AI cycle comes to some sort of conclusion whatever it is
timewarptrio11@reddit
What does option of redundancy pool mean in this case?
Wide_Obligation4055@reddit
It meant there were around 40 EMEA new vacancies for 500 redundancies. So you could try and talk to the hiring manager and stay on the sinking ship ⚓ But end of 2018 the general IT job market was good, this redundancy was caused by Trump banning Oracle from going into China - so cancelling all that work. But other companies were desperate for experienced cloud engineers 8 years ago. So staying was stupid given the redundancy offer.
timewarptrio11@reddit
Gotcha. Thanks for the context!
LebaneseLurker@reddit
Ya but mark herd was a POS and they were Co-CEO’s
Foxvale@reddit
I have loyalties to individuals, not companies. Sometimes misplaced, but it’s been invaluable over my career.
chikamakaleyley@reddit
My re-org came from an eng manager who was rather new, I was closing in on 6 years there
I didn't recognize it but there was a re-shuffling of seats. Most I was annoyed because i was by the window, that EM had slithered in my place
I didn't realize i had been doign this but my 1:1 had been skipped a number of times for whatever reason and finally, may be a few wk later i could take a break and sit w him.
I was told there was a re-org and planning for projects in the pipeline, and he just couldn't figure out where to position me. Mind you, I was the first FE dev they had hired full time, I more or less vetted the members of the FE team that surrounded me, I had more or less led 2 redesigns and 1 rebrand in my time there. Regardless. I kicked ass at frontend, at least the level of product website that we did there.
Basically i sat there for several minutes in silence, not really knowing what to say to that. And the EM just kept saying "i'm sorry". I just got up and left. I didn't have to show up for the last quarter, paid.
Near the end of my actual employment, there's a big all hands mtg, and a coworker calls me and tells me that the company was getting acquired.
I nearly flipped my lid but it turns out i got the better end of the deal, or so i was told (i didn't understand how options worked anyway). A lot of the engs had been there far longer, always negotiating for more options in lieu of salary, and they were required to give up a huge % of it. Me, I just had no choice
chickadee-guy@reddit
Imagine calling anything with an LLM "meaningful work"
blindsdog@reddit
🙄 it’s a tool bud, it has no reflection at all on the work you do with it.
chickadee-guy@reddit
Being an LLM slop zombie is definitely a poor reflection on you, and the horrific quality reflects poorly on the work itself.
blindsdog@reddit
Good luck being bitter about new technology and hateful towards the people that use it, that definitely won't hamstring a career like software development.
chickadee-guy@reddit
Im by far the top performer on my team and run laps around slop zombies, all the while having agents put me at the top of the AI leaderboard by running gas town. Skill issue bud.
EffectiveFlan@reddit
Dude, we get it. You work for a bottom tier company getting paid below average salary. Calling yourself an expensive dev is a stretch. Move on.
blindsdog@reddit
You sound like a joy to work with. I'm sure that'll continue, just like every previous generation of programming language never took hold, surely this will fail too. That's why we all still work in assembly, after all.
sirspidermonkey@reddit
I'm old enough when I was told that using and IDE reflects poorly on your work. You should KNOW the the arugments/data structure/location of file reference! And it's reflects poorly on you that you need this assistance.
chickadee-guy@reddit
Its being pushed onto executives and workers as a full on workforce replacement and end to end automation solution. Its not just a tool. Your boss doesnt care if you found a bug 30 minutes faster thanks to Claude, he wants to know when it can replace your department.
03263@reddit
It's our job now like it or not... every company wants it used, coworkers using it, can't avoid it any longer.
chickadee-guy@reddit
Big difference between using it for a search engine or augmentation and hinging your entire product strategy and business model around selling chat bots and chat bot integrations.
Ive been fake prompting for 3+ years to make metrics happy and still run laps around my slop machine coworkers. It isnt difficult at all, the tools are that bad.
03263@reddit
Why fake it? Have confidence that it's bad and give them what they ask for, if it doesn't work out maybe you'll stop having to fake it and just be allowed to not use it.
Meta_Machine_00@reddit
Ah yes. Those non LLM CRUD apps are so meaningful.
chickadee-guy@reddit
Ya they actually make money
Meta_Machine_00@reddit
There are a lot of apps and services that dont make money and are essentially a gamble on hopes of future revenue. You dont sound very informed lol.
chickadee-guy@reddit
There is no hope of future revenue using LLMs. Zilch. And not a single piece of evidence anywhere showing otherwise. Hilarious to call someone uninformed with a take that stupid
Meta_Machine_00@reddit
So you are smarter than all of these major players that are investing billions in LLMs? Like Amazon. They went a number of years with no profit and now they invest billions in LLMs. Are you smarter than Amazon?
chickadee-guy@reddit
Microsoft just had its worst fiscal quarter since 2008. Amazon laid off thousands of people to be able to afford their capex commitments on their balance sheet. Anthropic and OpenAI are losing more money than any companies ever have in the history of capitalism adjusted for inflation.
If losing money and bad bets makes you smart, those guys are geniuses!
Im assuming you mean Amazon here? the "loss" they took in the 90s where they actually had a viable business model and product people wanted was nowhere near the scale of the hundred BILLION dollar losses they and every other LLM investor are facing now.
Meta_Machine_00@reddit
Youve hit all the major talking points out there. But let me guess, you havent kept any multibillion dollar corporations in operation for decades like Oracle has.
chickadee-guy@reddit
None of these corporations have made hundred billion dollar committments with no revenue in return before. Ever. Name one.
skidmark_zuckerberg@reddit
You’re uninformed if you don’t realize these companies are taking on debt unlike we have ever seen before for something that physically cannot be scaled due to resources. We simply do not have the resources on this planet for any of the AI data centers promised to be completed. GPU’s and memory are finite. Energy is finite. AI is extremely subsidized by investment dollars. The bait and switch is coming, they cannot scale it to a level where it’s somewhat affordable. They are going to get companies hooked on cheap LLM subscriptions when the true cost of a single seat to be profitable is 10x what they charge today without any subsidization. AI will be an enterprise thing at that point, the average consumer will not be able to afford it.
These companies have taken on debt that is unheard of and at no point in history have tech companies taken on debt this large for a technology that is probably decades away from being economically viable. What’s going to happen when OpenAI runs out of money? What’s going to happen when they go under and all of the investment money they have gotten vanish overnight? You realize all the hyper scale AI data centers promised are way behind schedule are years and years away from being complete? It’s all a lie.
LLM’s were released way too early to the masses. They just released them and said “here you go, figure it out” with no solid idea of how the technology could scale in a cost effective way. LLM’s should’ve been an enterprise level technology on a smaller scale while it was refined and infrastructure to support them was scaled out methodically over the span of a decade or more. The economics of this entire debacle do not make any sense. This is a bubble and when it pops, it’s going to bring down a lot of companies with it and probably put the world into a global recession. The technology will exist still, there’s no denying, but they have to learn their lesson first. This definitely parallels with the dot.com bubble, just on a much larger financial scale than we’ve ever seen before.
Meta_Machine_00@reddit
Wow. Never been done before is bad. Got it. Let me guess. You think "the bubble will pop", but if it doesn't, and these companies ultimately succeed, you will have some excuse ready to show that you were right all along?
chickadee-guy@reddit
Sooo you cant explain how the hundreds of billions of dollars of debt get resolved, and btw that numbers is just growing. There is zero scenarios where these companies "ultimately succeed" with nearly a trillion dollar black hole on their balance sheets. The other profit driving business models will suffer until the LLM division is axed or the company shutters. Dont have to look far to see an AI agent deleting an entire AWS production region.
Meta_Machine_00@reddit
You do realize the US government operates on trillions in debt. And they can go in and destroy countries. Who cares what is on their books? They get bailed out. That is the smartest thing you can do. They are currently invulnerable. And even when Trumpy gets tossed, they will keep the same grease with Democrats.
The AI companies offer transhumanism and extended life. There is no way they fail because the old people in government dont want to die.
chickadee-guy@reddit
If you think the government is going to bail out the AI companies and tech companies you are a grade A moron lol.
Real economics thinker TM.
Not even the most slack jawed charlatan thinks a chat bot is offering extended life and transhumanism. Jesus christ
Reardon-0101@reddit
This is the way almost any layoff will go. Anyone in the know can’t tell you about it.
ilyas-inthe-cloud@reddit
Been on the management side of restructures and the brutal part is almost never the layoff itself, it's leaders treating communication like a legal risk instead of a human event. People can handle bad news better than silence plus instant lockout.
The only loyalty that has actually paid back in my career is to good managers, good peers, and teams that would work together again. Companies will reorg you into a spreadsheet without blinking.
MagnificentBastard-1@reddit
I don’t know where you are in your career but it seems like it’s early on.
This complete disregard for people and/or their work when profits have to be shown for the quarter has been SOP since at least the 1990s, probably sooner but that’s before I saw it in operation. Yes, you are “the best people” and doing “important work” but not more important than a dollar.
Loyalty is not a factor — you are a mercenary. That’s not a Bad Thing, it’s just A Thing (being a mercenary I mean).
If objective observation sounds like cynicism the problem is not the observer.
P.S. Used an em-dash specifically to trip up people who think that only AIs are allowed to use them. Never seen that law on the books.
i-think-about-beans@reddit
I haven’t been laid off (knock on wood) but when I witnessed mass layoffs in 2016 at my first company out of college it truly shook me that you could do everything you were supposed to do and still have the rug pulled out from under you. I haven’t had the same enthusiasm for work since.
AmbassadorNew645@reddit
Understand your frustration, and you have the right to feel that way. But, even if the company sugar coated the msg, what’s the difference? I personally prefer direct and blunt communication
Sucksessful@reddit
yep, for me i woke up to no access to anything.. teams, outlook etc. i got up, checked teams in my phone but nothing would load, figured it was a teams thing. didn't even have time to get coffee before an unexpected call from my manager before standup. cheers to 1yr+ of unemployment now.
nikospkrk@reddit
No such thing as "workplace loyalty".
Sorry to hear you got fired.
LoveSpiritual@reddit
I was “informed” about a layoff by suddenly being unable to access any networks or resources while I was on call for my team. Had to piece it together from context. My manager and my team were just as blindsided. All done at the top levels In fairness, severance was generous. But handled horribly.
iegdev@reddit
Yup, I was actually out sick when I got a text message from my boss’ boss to join a quick emergency meeting about an hour before an all-hands emergency meeting.
Apparently, the emergency was that mine and about 4% of other employees’ jobs were being off-shored to Costa Rica.
Since my “separation” wasn’t “performance related” I’m able to apply for any other open positions through the company employment portal.
Companies don’t care about you. They’ll drop you as soon as the bottom line says so. Even if the company made $7 billion last year
Chicagoj1563@reddit
I’ve seen this happen before. Not just what OP described, but when the employee got off the phone after being informed they were let go, within 1 minute, two security people were there to escort him out of the building.
Foreign_Addition2844@reddit
Never give 100% To an employer. They will burn you out and then lay you off.
Do as little as possible to stay employed. That's it.
PedanticProgarmer@reddit
What warning signs you can recognize now? Sudden cost cuts? Leadership going radio silent?
CompassionateSkeptic@reddit
Yup. Worked at a place for a decade. Saw dozens of marriages get celebrated by practically the entire small company. I was RIF’d a month after I got back from my honeymoon.
sleepyguy007@reddit
i work for a big tech firm. our stock has tanked in the saaspocalypse. its actually worked pretty well because with my RSUS falling 60% in value in 8 months my loyalty to a psuedo monopoly business software company with politics and a million issues is basically 0. I do the bare minumum to make it through my day and if they do in fact lay me off the severance i'll enjoy and i'll move on with my life.
I've worked at 10+ other companies. no one is saving the world here. some of them at least have funner coworkers, and were making something fun (worked at a lot of media companies... iw ant to say its a lot funner to make a streaming app than business software), but ultimiately get your $$$. if they treat you bad explore your options. if your options are low, gut it out, see if you get severance. stay in the field as long as you can collect your money and save it.
thats everything i've learned in almost 24 years of working
Affectionate-Turn137@reddit
pick one
AbstractLogic@reddit
The last line of decency towards employees has been crossed. We all know companies don’t care about their employees anymore but at least they had the decency to give us the 2 weeks they expect us to give them.
I for one am not giving 2 weeks anymore.
mikereads@reddit
I've been laid off three times, and at the end of the day these people do not see you as their equal. If you're lucky your bosses behave as conflicted middle mangers to shareholders. I'm 20 years into my career and the best advice I can give is layoffs are inevitable. Consider yourself always an independent contractor, keep a few months salary liquid for the next layoff since they strike at the end of any quarter and no is safe. Consolidate your 401ks if you got them, HR is not your friend, take those vacations, and don't work overtime to make up for bad management. This is a marathon and you need to maker the run work for you.
Disastrous_Bet_6478@reddit
Employees have always been liabilities for companies, but there's nothing inherently wrong with that. An employee makes the company profitable, and in turn the company pays the employee. This relationship is transactional, not emotional.
That said, treating employees this way is genuinely wrong.
I hope that if this door has closed for you, another will certainly open. Just be patient and good luck.
MinimumArmadillo2394@reddit
IMO this shouldn't be something we just accept. This is not acceptable with no warning. Businesses are allowed to change priorities, but they know damn well in advance more than 10 days that the market is shifting and that they're going to have to reorganize their priorities or their workforce.
100 years ago, layoffs had to be justified. 50 years ago, layoffs were a sign of bad business and companies assisted people with the transition and often times even gave them a warning. Now they boost stock prices and destroy lives.
Huge_Road_9223@reddit
Sorry to be an asshole here, but WTFAF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
I don't know how old you all are, but I've been working since the late 80's - early 90's when I started my career.
Even before I started to work, before I was in college, I was in HS and I WATCHED the news every night at 6pm, and then I watched the national new after the local news. I tried to stay informed on what was going on in the country, and I learned from watching the news how corporations worked.
I also had family who worked, grandparents, parents, aunts uncles, etc. They all worked, and I watched them get used every single day. No one really liked their job, they tolerated their job because they had families.
Companies suck! I learned this before I even started my first job, and I've never trusted a company.
This abso-fucking-lutely should NOT come as a shock to anyone who is working today. If you;re in HS, or if you're in college ... get used to it ... companies suck, and they will suck the life out of you, and treat you like trash. You are a number to them, and you'll have the "ladder" pulled out from you so many times it will be hard to build that retirement nest-egg.
The best way to not get bitten by poisonous snakes, is to know they're poison, and you need to treat them with care. Sometimes they're a rattlesnake, sometimes they're cobras, and sometimes they're vipers. But once you're fore-warned, you're fore-armed. That is why companies like GlassDoor exist, so you can get a feeling on what the company is like. I know GlassDoor isn't perfect, and they remove reviews, but right now it's the only game in town.
Mike-mafia-25@reddit
Uniquely American way to treat people.
DigmonsDrill@reddit
OP doesn't live in America.
dspv@reddit
Layoffs handled like that are always brutal. The sheer volume of applications and tailoring documents for each one can feel like a full-time job itself. That constant grind of custom CVs and cover letters is why skiphr.me got built for my own EU relocation search.
ExperiencedDevs-ModTeam@reddit
Rule 8: No Surveys/Advertisements
If you think this shouldn't apply to you, get approval from moderators first.
Empanatacion@reddit
Reported and hopefully banned.
IntelligentFire999@reddit
Alright bro chill and take ur hawking somewhere else, we are properly pissed to give u business
DoughnutSecure7038@reddit
My job sent out a company-wide “Today we made the difficult decision to eliminate XXX roles” email to people who hadn’t been let go yet, and wouldn’t be until two days later just when they had unclenched, exhaled, and started thinking they were safe. These vampires don’t care about us.
InterestingBoard67@reddit
please don't, it's just a fucking post on reddit, user your own language
swgeek555@reddit
The sad part is that it doesn't cost much to be more human about it and it makes a big difference.
I have been in companies during layoffs many times and was impacted two of those times. Both times my managers were really great - they were sympathetic, walked me through options, offered to vouch for me when I interview. I would go work for those managers again and one of those companies despite the layoff because of how they handled it.
A couple of companies I would never go back to even though I was not directly impacted as I hated the way they went about it (and voluntarily left soon after).
Reputation matters when times are good again and they need to hire.
pythosynthesis@reddit
Companies have an extremely transactional mindset. When you're not needed anymore you'll be let go. Understand this and you're already ahead of most peers. The next step is to start using it to your advantage. Which, in practice, means the ability to filter out "we're a family"; "our best asset is our people"; "our advantage lies in the deep know how of our staff"; and a other such corporate bull. If you can do this you'll be able to easily transition to the next step, which is to treat companies like you would a prostitute: She/he gives you something you want, you pay and then you part ways. No feelings involved. Which also means going with another prostitute simply because she's/he's more attractive or costs less. For a company this means finding another one that pays you more, or gives better work life balance, or simply because they are struggling and offer better job security. It doesn't matter what it is so long as it's better for YOU, zero loyalty to the company. This simple recipe is how you play thr corporate game successfully.
BadassSasquatch@reddit
That sucks, man. I learned this the hard way too when I worked at a small firm that was bought out by a smaller firm. They already had a "web guy" and decided they didn't need me. This all happened on Christmas day.
bzbub2@reddit
don't use AI for 'paraphrasing', it cheapens your ideas
ReikaKalseki@reddit
You say "Dehumanizing execution is a leadership choice", and it is, but I have a feeling there is some school of business thought that explicitly encourages dehumanizing practices, given how common it seems for employers to "twist the knife" even when there is nothing - even convenience! - gained from doing so.
My mother - not in software, nor anything remotely related to it - once attended a meeting in the 2000s where there was a presentation being given, what was at first portrayed as a generic "state of things" presentiation...before abruptly using the powerpoint to announce layoffs by name in front of everyone. Just slides and slides of names. Worse, and this is the part that makes me suspect actual malice, the presenter was one of the names, and this is how they found out, while presenting the list to hundreds of people. Why would you ever do THAT unless your goal is simply to kick people down as hard as you possibly can?
Tacos314@reddit
This is in no way new or secret knowledge, people have been getting laid off for as long as businesses have been around.
Of course you are a number, your sole reason for being hired is to make money. The people you work with are human but if the company no longer needs you there is not a lot that can be done.
AllOneWordNoSpaces1@reddit
Been there, done that.
Last year I got laid off from a job I really liked.
I was told they were “anticipating the future needs of the business”.
I had already demonstrated my ability to pick up new technology & techniques. I moved from RPG on IBM i development, to Java with spring & Javafx, to kotlin on android. Toss in a bit of vuejs for good measure.
valence_engineer@reddit
The only things I care about is:
Everything else is just pointless social niceties which don't change my life situation in any way. I don't care if my laptop just dies mid meeting if they give me 6 months of severance with RSU fast vesting.
I feel your priorities are somewhat off in a capitalistic society.
gemengelage@reddit
Maybe move to a civilized country where you can't be fired at will without a notice period?
And how the hell are you unable to talk about losing your job without mentioning AI twice, even though it literally had nothing to do with you getting fired?
Oakw00dy@reddit
So what's the civilized country one can just up and move to with no job or residence permit?
gemengelage@reddit
That's a weird non sequitur. If you don't have a job there, why would you care about job protection?
I was just making fun of the US, it's not that deep bro.
Oakw00dy@reddit
Here's the thing which you as obviously non-US person don't seem to understand: Up until recently, at least in white-collar jobs in the US, there was at least a modicum of respect between employers and employees. Even with most states going "employment at will" and dismantling labor unions, employers would generally treat their employees well, if no other reason than to keep organized labor, well, from organizing again. This has changed. Corporations still expect commitment from their employees but offer zero reciprocity. Employees are now seen not as a resouce and a competitive advantage but as a liabilty to be replaced with AI as soon as practical. If you think that's not going to happen globally, you're going to be in for a big surprise, buddy. That said, your comment adds zero value to the discussion.
gemengelage@reddit
First of all, I'm not your buddy.
Outside of the US, job protection is implemented through law, not your employers goodwill. The way I see it, these laws are not going to change anytime soon.
BusinessWatercrees58@reddit
I don't think they were literally calling you their buddy. Its not that deep bro
gemengelage@reddit
I'm not your friend, pal.
Empanatacion@reddit
When were these "until recently" good old days? Before Reagan?
Oakw00dy@reddit
Ha! But don't you think layoffs have gotten a little bit more brutal in recent times?
SwillStroganoff@reddit
So in the US it is a norm that you give two weeks notice when you resign. It always struck me how one sided that is.
valence_engineer@reddit
Even startups have given me at least 2 weeks severance. Larger tech-ish companies its 4+ months. Not sure how that's one sided. Like do you want to work for 2 weeks or get paid to not work for two weeks?
WhenSummerIsGone@reddit
it's a norm but not required in at-will situations, which most are
Mundane-Charge-1900@reddit
Your experience is pretty typical.
Having been through many rounds of layoffs at various companies over the years, the ones where it was more personal were no better than the ones done using some impersonal criteria high up the org chart.
The time I was laid off myself was probably the messiest. The company was out of money and had to cut labor costs by like 30% to get more funding from lenders. They had to make deep cuts of entire business units. The company was only a couple hundred people so it was well understood who was being laid off and why.
I don’t think anyone, affected or not, disagreed with the choices, given the circumstances. A lot of my corkers were very angry about it all though. We’d all put in a lot of work for this company that clearly had made bad choices that got us to that point where the layoffs were necessary. That it was personal or well considered didn’t change that it disrupted people’s lives or that they felt like they wasted their lives for this job.
I was on vacation at the time so the exec called me on the phone. He was crying. Honestly, he felt worse than I did about it.
positivelymonkey@reddit
"the work being delivered"
This phrasing is exactly why you got laid off.
You cared about the work.
Businesses don't exist for work.
They exist to create value for shareholders.
That requires creating value for customers.
It does not require delivering "work".
hijinx_the_sage@reddit
lol my manager didn't even know about the layoff, i had to let him know through linkedin message
CaesarBeaver@reddit
I just went through the exact same thing. I think a lot of companies are just aping what the big boys are doing, and the rest are just using the AI as an excuse to do layoffs without the negative perception of traditional cost cutting redundancies.
actionerror@reddit
Working in corporate America taught me early on I’m just a number and a replaceable resource. Thus, I’ve had no loyalty to any one company. If our goals align, great. If not, I’m bailing.
One_Economist_3761@reddit
When you go through this enough times you learn that company loyalty, like “the cake”, is a lie.
Sorry for your situation. I’m in the same place as you right now. Hope you find something soon. Keep your chin up mate.
CarelessPackage1982@reddit
People stupidly voted for representatives who passed laws favoring corporations instead o people. Doesn't make sense to me but that's where we're at.
Sheldor5@reddit
Loyalty - 100% negative, 0% positive
you only ask for loyalty if you do something wrong/bad
there is not a single scenario in which a good person asks for loyalty
tinkeringidiot@reddit
It's like power - if you're asking for it, nobody should give it to you.
DDayDawg@reddit
This one is tough for me. I don’t disagree with the inhumanity of the process but I do disagree that it is wrong. Developers have enormous power these days with access to IP valued at millions of dollars. We also have the knowledge to do things that can cause huge problems for the company. For that reason I think any layoffs in our industry really should involve zero notice and a loss of all access.
Now, the company should continue to pay you through the “notice” period and good companies offer severance for time to find another job. But allowing an unhappy developer access to that codebase is just a really bad idea.
WildWinkWeb@reddit
The last thing on your company’s mind is your career’s well-being. You need to be active and conscious about what you want from your career because employer’s don’t give a shit.
Comfortable_Ad7513@reddit
Some organisations… no every organisation
Hence, give them fingers not the heart.
Foghorn-10@reddit
Overemployed. Head over there. Hedge your bets always.
ChineseGravelBike@reddit
Yeah sure “Top 1% commenter” you don’t sound you have a job
NoobInvestor86@reddit
The fact that “loyalty” is even a thing given the past couple years is mind blowing to me. I have been VERY lucky to not have been laid off through all of this but even i know not to be loyal to ANY company. This is capitalism. They care about one thing: money.
The entire investment in AI is around them salivating to fire everyone.
throwaway737166@reddit
I think AI is actually going to change this very soon. The public won’t tolerate an endless amount of layoffs.
Statharas@reddit
Brother, I have never been laid off and I hold no workplace loyalty
Nofanta@reddit
This is standard procedure now. Everyone should understand this so they don’t make sacrifices that won’t be appreciated.
Sapient6@reddit
Yeah. Laid off in mid-december 2008. Loyalty towards your employer is stupid, and the floor under your feet is an illusion. Act accordingly.
engineered_academic@reddit
Sorry OP you are in the USA where at will employment doesn't require severance.
Proper data-loss-prevention rules require that terminated employees have their access immediately revoked to protect data integrity of the business.
Other developed countries have proper notice periods with mandatory severance. Whether or not unions are appropriate, I think we can all get behind proper gardening leave laws.
Mediocre_Isopod_1259@reddit (OP)
I'm in India, the company is US based
magichronx@reddit
It always sucks, but the truth is you work at the pleasure of your employer (at least in the US, barring specific circumstances), and they do not give a shit about you
I got blindsided circa 2019 when a small company I was working for decided to fire the entire US-based dev team with plans to re-hire a whole new team overseas. It was the same situation where it was just dumped on everyone in a morning standup with no warning.
The team was told told "We will continue paying you for the rest of the week. You can stay in the office today if you want to update your linkedin etc., or you can leave if you want"
CheetahChrome@reddit
I learned everything I needed to know about corporations by working at Mickey Ds in high school regardless of what the rah-rah poster in the break room said.
After college graduation no company I've worked for irrespective of my position and industry need for my skills has behaved any different than McDonald's does to there employees.
Loyalty is a hallucination created in your mind and does not exist in theirs.
informalpool1@reddit
“Corporate workplace” and “loyalty” shouldn’t be used together. If you think it should, it’s whether your family company or you haven’t experienced it yet.
MrMichaelJames@reddit
Another dev learning that what they work on and their perceived importance means absolutely nothing. Everyone is replaceable at anytime with next to zero impact on the company. Learn this early because it’s important. You mean nothing to the company. You provide a service, they pay, that is it.
nkondratyk93@reddit
tbh the warning isn't even the worst part. it's the 'everyone in tech is struggling' cover while executive comp didn't move an inch. that's deliberate.
jcl274@reddit
i’m sorry for you but this experience is not unique to experienced devs. this can happen to anyone. so i fail to see the relevance to this subreddit.
rostun@reddit
Yes I agree I just god laid off similar way, it was a small mid sized company I had been there for years worked with c level personally and was the most impersonal layoff ever…it was very disappointing but also unfortunately not under my expectations. I did think though “really they couldn’t rise to the occasion just this one time??? Im sure they could have added one small gesture of human goodwill legally” but nope had to go the abrupt youre dead to me route. I wasn’t even mad about the layoff itself but just the…way it happened felt so weird and off putting. Especially when I heard through the grapevine they communicated to the rest of the company differently like with heartfelt sentiments like come on would have been nice to get even an inkling of those vibes!
wisdomcube0816@reddit
This will not make you feel better but I was laid off by my previous company which had maybe 35 total employees in a very similar manner. With them 7 1/2 years and laid off at 9AM on the Friday before Thanksgiving. I'm pretty sure my manager and the company CTO both of whom I had meetings with that Thursday and set up follow ups on Friday and the next week. I was told my position had been removed and I was being laid off with severance.
I was fortunate enough to start a new position at the end of January with better everything (except it being hybrid instead of fully remote). Doesn't make the layoff feel any better.
Outside-Storage-1523@reddit
This should be trivial knowledge these days, I mean come on!
Low_Reputation_9893@reddit
Join union - apes together strong
anyfactor@reddit
I have been laid off before, and I will get laid off again. I will complain, and I will cry.
But let me tell you a story from the other side. I hired a couple of contract employees for a big project I was doing. One person was doing a terrible job and required a lot of hands-on mentoring. The other person, who was doing a decent job, quit 15 days later with the excuse, "I do not feel like doing this."
I had a set delivery deadline and was already working crazy hours. If I did not deliver on the contract, that meant it would take months to secure another one in the niche field I worked in. I had rent and bills to pay but my contractors as independent individuals had the right to say "see ya".
As you feel the company does not care for you, ask yourself: Do you yourself ctually care for the company? If you had a better job offer, you would hand over your two weeks' notice, and it would take months to find a replacement and onboard them.
There is no loyalty on either side. It hurts when it happens to you, and it feels calculated. Nobody owes anyone anything except for the work and the salary. Anything beyond that is delusion.
But I am going to vent when I get fired. Having worked as a freelance and contract employee, I see that getting laid off is just normal. It hurts tremendously and it is inhumane, but that is the game we play.
Altruistic-Bat-9070@reddit
You complain about AI whilst using AI. Those long dashes aren't in normal html formatting.
Historical_Fondant95@reddit
Where did he complain about ai?
TribeWars@reddit
I had already put in a downvote based on the AI writing voice of this post, before i saw you mention it at the end, so thank you. However, it's still very grating to read. Sorry to hear about the way you got laid off. US corporate culture is garbage.
AromaticStrike9@reddit
This is just a general workplace experience, absolutely nothing to do with being an experienced dev.
Mediocre_Isopod_1259@reddit (OP)
I'm an experienced dev. Worked so hard and passionately here, everything was good until the change in leadership in USA who fked everyone, especially CTO level change
_l-l-l_@reddit
One thing I learned from a similar experience is: do just enough to be perceived as going above the average to keep it safe, everything else is overkill and won't save you when the time comes to improve corporate stats.
Civil_Essay_7324@reddit
There is a simple rule for your corporate job ,don't only depend on them have something going in side hustle
Hot-Recording-1915@reddit
Yeah right, as if we don't do anything else in life.
Don't have a family, don't have hobbies, don't have friends! Just work, AND also have a side (profitable) project.
The only thing I stand for is: save money, this is the most important thing that will give you more freedom and tranquility in life.
Headpuncher@reddit
Not to mention a lot of employers (dependent on location) don’t allow a second job in the same field and having one can get you fired. Unfair imo.
coloredgreyscale@reddit
Bro, just work 2 half time jobs. What are the chances you get laid off at both at the same time?
Maybe you can even half-ass them (especially remote positions) and get a 3rd job for further risk mitigation. /s
Not everyone has the entrepreneurial grind mindset or marketing skills to build up a dependable side hustle income. Not that there would be any escuse for that nowadays, since you can just ask AI to do most of it. /s